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S Korean court orders another Japanese firm to pay for forced wartime labor

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By Ed Jones

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Opinion of Japanese legal experts on this matter:

http://justice.skr.jp/estatement.html (Enlgish)

http://justice.skr.jp/statement.html (Japanese)

-10 ( +9 / -19 )

Using children in protests like that is disgusting.

19 ( +24 / -5 )

Every day in Korea, another attack on Japan. This issue has already been finalized 54 years ago. Just Ignore the “ruling”, Abe Cabinet. This is all just a smokescreen, attack Japan so Korean public look away from failing economy and imminent coup against Moon. It is simply pure hatred against Japan.

23 ( +30 / -7 )

Hey Korea, the war ended a looong time ago time to get on with life....

26 ( +32 / -6 )

Unfortunately, life is real and change is hard.

-20 ( +4 / -24 )

South Korea and its former colonial power Japan are both U.S. allies who have to contend with nuclear-armed North Korea and a rising China.

This is just to keep rubbing the SK's noses in it and wont allow people to move on. Media is playing a huge part in fueling this fire!

But to expect responsibility in the media....yeah right! Never again in my lifetime!

16 ( +20 / -4 )

YES

-16 ( +3 / -19 )

SJ

Thank you for the informative link.

gary

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

"A group of 1,103 former forced labourers and their families said it filed a lawsuit in a Seoul court on Wednesday, demanding the South Korean government provide 100 million won to each of them in compensation because it had received funds from Japan."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hundreds-of-south-koreans-sue-government-over-wartime-labour-at-11048972

The use of the child in that hate filled photo is absolutely disgusting. Or are South Koreans incapable of understanding that?

17 ( +23 / -6 )

SK, get over it! Grow up, spoiled brats!

16 ( +22 / -6 )

I completely support South Korea and these court rullings. Since Japan cunningly tries to grasp at straws, if i were SK i would just scrap the 1965 deal and demand a new deal, and if they don't want, so be it.

-19 ( +5 / -24 )

@IloveCoffee scrapping a treat would be the worst idea, it will signify that SK has no integrity on signed agreements

Personal compensation only came up later and cause the afflicted sued government for keeping all the money from the reparations, I don't think other countries requested for personal compensations.

Being close neighbours it would have been great if they progressed together.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Do read SJ link to the statement regarding compensation. In sum: “The individual right to seek compensation has not been extinguished by the Korea-Japan Claims Settlement Agreement.” Read the whole statement, for which there is also a link in Japanese.

A reader writes: “Using children in protests like that is disgusting.” This is fake outrage. No thoughts from same person about slave labor being disgusting. This is unfortunately typical of those who wish to apply lashes to the victim and exonerate the victimizer.

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

It seems that Koreans are still living in the past though most countries could move on from war.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Apart from the use of a child to advsamce hatred, ensuring that the hatred will be carried on another generation, the young Korean men dressed as Imperial Japanese soldiers probably have no idea that some quarter million Korean men served in the Imperial Japanese military. Perhaps these young brainwashed men do not realize the utter hypocrisy:

http://juche007-anglo-peopleskoreafriendship.blogspot.com/2015/08/park-chung-hee-in-japanese-army-uniform.html

It was mostly Korean Japanese who were acting cruely to POWs. There were 129 Korean Japanese soldiers who were sentenced as Class B and C war criminals.

“The most hated people in countries that Japan occupied were the Korean Japanese. It was a common knowledge amongst the Allied prisoners that Korean Japanese were much more cruel than the Japanese.”

— “Japan is Misunderstood” by Alfred Smouler, a special correspondant of Paris Match

“Just about all Australian POWs have grudge against Korean Japanese. They were doing all sorts of underhand and cruel things against POWs. The Allied POWs all knew that the Japanese were much better than Korean Japanese.”

— Gregory Clark, the Vice-Chancellor of Tama University, and a former Australian soldier and POW

“No matter how hard we tried, it was impossible to establish communications with Korean Japanese, and when it comes to physical punishments, we were much more scared of them than we were of Japanese.”

— “Appare Japanese Soldiers” by Kennith Harrison, a former Australian soldier and POW

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Re SJ's link, these statements start looking smart free advertisement by a industry facing structural recession.

They can go both ways to defendants or to plaintiffs, or as some intermediator.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@Yubaru Speaking of the US. The United Empire Loyalist who had their property seized and were forced to move to Canada were supposed to be compensated by the US as per the Treaty of Paris. It never happened, so what, people moved on. It is pointless for South Korea to keep pulling the scab of the wound; just let it heal.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

However true or untrue OssanAmerica’s cherry-picked quotations are, they are way off the point in regard to the discussion at hand. And please note: We are not discussing “Japanese-Koreans” but Korean-Koreans (excuse me) who were born and raised in Korea and happened to be enslaved by Japanese companies.

With regard to showchinmono’s remarks, please that the Japanese lawyers were not acting as judges but simply establishing the legitimacy of the law suits, which have so far gone in the plaintiffs’ favors.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Wonder if that picture is photo-shopped too? Why are the faces of the guys in uniform so pasty compared to the little girl?

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the picture was staged by the writer to inflame readers too.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

People have rights.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

KabukiloverToday  10:43 am JST

However true or untrue OssanAmerica’s cherry-picked quotations are, they are way off the point in regard to the discussion at hand. And please note: We are not discussing “Japanese-Koreans” but Korean-Koreans (excuse me) who were born and raised in Korea and happened to be enslaved by Japanese companies.

From 1910 to 1945 Korea was part of the Japanese Empire. Koreans were encouraged to use Japanese names. Some claim forced but there are known exceptions. These Koreans with Japanese names were Koreans born in Korea. They are the ones that the Allied POWs are refering to.

Hong Sa-ik (hangul 홍사익;hanja 洪思翊; 4 March 1889 – 26 September 1946)[1] was a lieutenant general in the Imperial Japanese Army, and the top-ranking ethnic Korean in Japan to be charged with war crimes relating to the conduct of the Empire of Japan in World War II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Sa-ik

15 ( +15 / -0 )

some quarter million Korean men served in the Imperial Japanese military. 

Because they had to as subjects of the Japanese Empire?

A bit like forced labour?

Am I on to something?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Japan should demand all the money they paid back in '65.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

NasubiToday  11:04 am JST

some quarter million Korean men served in the Imperial Japanese military. 

Because they had to as subjects of the Japanese Empire?

A bit like forced labour?

Am I on to something?

Nope, you are out in left field.

In 1938 Korean Applicants 2946 Number accepted 406. In 1939 12,348/613. In 1940 84,443/3,060. In 1941 144,743/3208. In 1942 254,273/4,077. In 1943 303,394/6000.

Note the numbers of Koreans who applied to join and the numbers that were accepted. This shows that nobody needed to be "forced". It was not until 1944 that mandatory conscription went into effect.

Additionally, perhaps you should stop to wonder just how anyone who is "forced" into joining the IJA can rise to the rank of Lt General.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Thank you for the information OssanAmerica. This information, however interesting, is still off the point as far as this article goes. The Koreans in question were forced laborers working for specific corporations. There is nothing in this article that remotely suggests they abused P.O.W.s So why bring it up? I see no purpose except to detail the discussion.

Excuse me, I find Speed’s remark, “The Koreas [sic] never keep their word” to be vulgar, bigoted and untrue.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Well said Ossan, well said. Good links. The worst and most brutal members of the IJA were South Korean volunteers. Furthermore, the SK atrocities in the Vietnam War make the USA look like angels. Thousands of innicent peace-loving Vietnamese people killed and Viet Cong soldiers massacred simply defending their own nation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_Nhị_and_Phong_Nhất_massacre

6 ( +10 / -4 )

About the little girl in the photograph, which has been the subject of much off the point vitriol.

Look at the lady in the foreground. She has a iPad or something like it. She is photographing the little girl, who is posing. A few of the men in uniform are posing with her.

You have to be sick to see anything “disgusting” in this.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@kwatt

It seems that Koreans are still living in the past though most countries could move on from war.

The present could not exist without the past. This kind of historic distort is not just confined to the WWII. Let me say one example.

In Japan, there many peace museums and parks for the WWII, but all of them just emphasize the tragedy and damage of Japanese civilians by the Atomic bombs, never explaining the causes of it, never mentioning the victims from other countries including Korea.

The second example.

I once guided a group of Japanese students from Tokyo University to Korean historic sites for tourism. Later, they said to me that they were surprised that nearly all Buddhist temples were destroyed as many as 3 times (Mongolian invasion in the 13-th century, Japan invasion 1592, and the Korean wear in 1950), and the most destructive event was the 1592 invasion. They said they have never been taught about it. Destroyed and damaged temples is not just a problem of the past, but of the present, too. Japan never teach her history of their invasion of neighboring countries objectively and in detail. But Koreans are well taught and know well what the state called Japan has done to Korea in history, not just for blaming, but for not repeating the same mistake.

If you are Japanese and want to know the related history in detail, please read first the 1592 invasion through Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasions_ofKorea(1592%E2%80%931598)

Although a Japanese Wiki version of this is available, but it does not have the contents for "Aftermath" and "War atrocities" as in the English version.

For example, during the siege of Jinju (1593), nearly the entire population of the city including women, children and babies were already killed by Japaneses, and Japanese soldiers no longer could see any human to kill further, then killing chickens instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_ofJinju(1593)

On contrary, today in Japan, they celebrate this tragic event as a festival called Uwajima Ushi-oni Festival: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwajima_Ushi-oni_Festival

As long as Japan teach her history to their youngsters like this, the conflicts will continue.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

As long as they think they can get away with, South Korea will keep playing the victim to get free money.

The whole world sees through this act by now. South Korea is becoming an embarrassment.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

KabukiloverToday  11:26 am JST

Thank you for the information OssanAmerica. This information, however interesting, is still off the point as far as this article goes.

It is smack on point as far as the accompanying photograph is concerned. A bunch of young South Koreans dressed up as IJA soldiers...despite the fact that many Koreans served in the IJA.

About the little girl in the photograph, which has been the subject of much off the point vitriol.

You have to be sick to see anything “disgusting” in this.

You have to be sick to not see anything disgusting in involving a young child in a hate demonstration.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Japan should get ready for this issue to continue for many years to come. I will use slavery in the US as an example of a past wrong that still affects and strongly divides society on whether reparations should be made, and if so, to whom. And slavery ended almost 150 years ago. I personally feel that where there is smoke there is fire, and if there is still so much anger at Japan in Korea then Japan must have truly been brutal. You think working at a foreigner at a Japanese company is bad now, imagine in 1945!

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

This information, however interesting, is still off the point as far as this article goes. The Koreans in question were forced laborers working for specific corporations. There is nothing in this article that remotely suggests they abused P.O.W.s So why bring it up? I see no purpose except to detail the discussion.

Unlike Ghosn's case which keeps driping new allegation everyday, this news repeats the same contents except the name of different plaintiffs. I say it cannot be helped to add on some other flavors to keep discussion going on.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This information, however interesting, is still off the point as far as this article goes. The Koreans in question were forced laborers working for specific corporations. There is nothing in this article that remotely suggests they abused P.O.W.s So why bring it up? I see no purpose except to detail the discussion.

Unlike Ghosn's case which keeps dripping new allegation everyday, this news repeats the same contents except the name of different plaintiffs. I say it cannot be helped to add on some other flavors to keep discussion going on.

Either you could ignore or up to mods in case like when you see something about Hideyoshi

Excuse for my doubling the posts

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Clarification: The former Korea slave laborers, residing in South Korea, are not “playing to victim.” They were real victims of slavery. Slavery is when you force people to work for you and don’t pay them. I hope we can all agree on that point.

In this discussion and others Koreans have being accused of “playing the victim” or “playing the victim card.” This is unfair, you should see it if we turn the question around.

You know what happens in August every year in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Are the A-bomb victims “playing the victim”? Let’s taking it further. Many A-bomb victims were Koreans, who were in fact denied official victim status for many years. Now (1) are all A-bomb victims “playing the victim” every August in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? and (2) are only Korean A-bomb victims “playing the victim.” If you answer yes to (1) you are inhuman. If you answer to (2) you are a bigot. If you answer no to (1) and (2) but insist Koreans as “playing the victim card” you are still a bigot.

People who have been vandalized are victims. They are not “playing the victim.”

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

For example, during the siege of Jinju (1593), nearly the entire population of the city including women, children and babies were already killed by Japaneses, and Japanese soldiers no longer could see any human to kill further, then killing chickens instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_ofJinju(1593)

Sorry but although it maybe told that way in SK there are no historical records in EITHER Korea or Japan about any massacre. In other words another lie.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Hey Korea, the war ended a looong time ago time to get on with life

SK, get over it! Grow up, spoiled brats!

It seems that Koreans are still living in the past though most countries could move on from war"

Gotta love the same crowd telling Korea ( or any other country that brings up forced labor, sex slaves, JIA atrocities etc... ) to move on, grow up and get on with life whilst continuing to whine about Kuriles, Takeshima et al..... clearly J nationalists are just as unable to " move on" on certain WW2 events as their SK counterparts....but hey, thats different , isnt it.....Pot kettle black.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

@SJ Today 06:37 am JST

Opinion of Japanese legal experts on this matter:

http://justice.skr.jp/estatement.html (Enlgish)

http://justice.skr.jp/statement.html (Japanese)

Some general observations of the site. Its title claims to be "法律事務所のアーカイブ" (Archives of a Law Firm), but all it has is a collection of whatever could be gathered that supports one position (pay up), on a single issue (compensation to Koreans). It doesn't even have the grace to acknowledge anything that's against it (most notably Civitella when the ICJ rejects the claim).

In regards to the particular page, I'll assume that those are "genuine" signatures in that they agree with the thrust and may at least partially agree. However, it is poorly reasoned and may well have said a lot less than you hope it would.

The forced labor issue is fundamentally a human rights issue: It may well be, but "human rights" does not nullify the Unrecht (unlawfulness) of the South Korean court trampling over the clear wording and intent of an binding treaty that was in its favor, does it.

The individual right to seek compensation has not been extinguished by the Korea-Japan Claims Settlement Agreement: That would seem to be somewhat contradictory to a plain reading of the word "settled". However, international law is separated from domestic law, so it is acceptable for the Japanese judiciary to use that formulation, since the final aggregated result is compatible with the text in that the court would not order compensation.

Perhaps the weakest point of this section is that the South Korean judiciary's ruling actually differs from the Japanese court's ruling, both in the final aggregated result and some of its components. Yet it tries to rely on the Japanese Court's ruling as authority, without attempting to account for the gap.

The ruling is in line with advances in international human rights law that values remedies for individual victims: This is essentially an appeal to authority, and thus it is sufficient to point out the ICJ's judgement is adverse.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

About the photo. What does this have to do with hate? Where are the angry banners and howling sound trucks? This is a peaceful gathering. Perhaps it is in solidarity with the former slaver laborers. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Whatever, it’s cute. Lighten up, folks.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

A reader writes: “Using children in protests like that is disgusting.” This is fake outrage. No thoughts from same person about slave labor being disgusting. This is unfortunately typical of those who wish to apply lashes to the victim and exonerate the victimizer.

No. Slave labor is disgusting. No question. But I find the use of children in political protest and hate campaigns disgusting. Nothing fake about it at all.

About the little girl in the photograph, which has been the subject of much off the point vitriol.

Look at the lady in the foreground. She has a iPad or something like it. She is photographing the little girl, who is posing. A few of the men in uniform are posing with her.

You have to be sick to see anything “disgusting” in this.

Waving a Korean flag... she is being used as part of the protest. It's not just an innocent photo like something taken at a festival, theme park or even a military parade. If it was done similarly at an anti Korean gathering somewhere in Japan I would be offended also. Children shouldn't be used in this way.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Triring

Sorry but although it maybe told that way in SK there are no historical records in EITHER Korea or Japan about any massacre. In other words another lie.

Lack of accurate written records does not always negate that it happened. This is a typical logical fault of the Japanese government and some of its people. During the war, it is nearly impossible to write and leave any written record, not to mentioning counting the numbers of soldiers and civilians, the killed and survived.

Who do you think killed the mother in the following painting in Taikōki?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7898/46795982171_7a44148277_o.png

You can say that there is no record about it and no suspect was captured, and further you can claim that she was not killed by Japanese soldiers. If I say she was killed by Japaneses soldiers, then you will call me a liar, won't you?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The individual right to seek compensation has not been extinguished by the Korea-Japan Claims Settlement Agreement:

It's more like Australia bound by the Antarctica Treaty, they claim it is their sovereign soil BUT the international treaty restricts them from enforcing them to other nations as long as the treaty is active.

So the individual rights do remain but as long as the 1965 treaty is active the SK as a nation is vowed not to enforce them which the SK SC had violated.

That is how things work in the rest of the world which SK does not have a clue about.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@SJ

It seems that Koreans are still living in the past though most countries could move on from war.

I'm kinda mixed Japanese Korean a little Mongolian. but whatever happened in the past, people sometimes really need to forget it and move on. As long as keeping such grudge, nothing gets better. That's why a Peace Treaty needs to settle all potential problems at that time. If digging out ended things, never end, never better.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Lack of accurate written records does not always negate that it happened.

Then how did you people even come to this story then?

Word of mouth?

When you claim that all were massacred?

As always too caught up with hate that SK people can't even think clearly.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

You have to be sick to not see anything disgusting in involving a young child in a hate demonstration.

Ossanamerica seriously, the thing that stands out to you is the child but not the demonstration highlighting colonial brutality? And since when did demonstrating against mistreatment a "hate demonstration"?

"At the time, Japan admitted Koreans were forced to labor on the island during the 1910-1945 occupation, and pledged to commemorate the victims and set up an information center to teach others about its brutal history.

But in a progress report submitted in November last year, Japan omitted the term "forced" and decided to set up an information center in the form of a think tank in Tokyo rather than a commemorative center."

http://english.chosun.com/m/svc/article.html?contid=2018062801929&Dep0=duckduckgo.com&utm

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Some general observations of the site.

As I wrote before, as I am not an legal expert, I do not accept any subjective and unverifiable comments without any citation or link, and I do not want to waste my time in responding to those meaningless gibberish.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

SJ Today  06:37 am JST

Opinion of Japanese legal experts on this matter:

http://justice.skr.jp/estatement.html (Enlgish)

http://justice.skr.jp/statement.html (Japanese)

Korean should not listen to their advice because

these Japanese lawyers are idiot.

Why? They say this is about human right issue.

So, I asked them, "Oh, aren't you forgetting the statement made by Japanese lawyers back in 1953 about Japanese fishermen victims in Syngman Rhee Line ? "

There was no answer....

Bottom line is on 1965 treaty, both side mutually waived rights to blame other countries.

李ライン問題に関する日本漁民拉致に対し韓国の反省を求める件(宣言)

https://www.nichibenren.or.jp/activity/document/civil_liberties/year/1953/1953_3.html

Currently I am looking for English version of this statement.

================================================

Syngman Rhee Line

Rhee administration drew a border over sea on their own without any consent with Japan, and those fisherman ships near border were attacked. From 1952 to 1965, 3929 Japanese people were captured, of whom 44 were killed,. No compensation or apology was made by Korean government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syngman_Rhee_Line

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Time for Japanese people to start paying attention to "reality" and stop "dreaming" ideals...

Talk is ineffective against those who take action.... start taking "action"...

Don't demand or ask... just act and remove S Korean influence in Japan...

But then S Korea and China has too many major corporations "owned" by them...

So change the laws to "prevent" foreign ownership... or at least limit their power and rights within Japan...

S Korea and all other countries do not allow foreigners to own property or company outright in their country... why is Japan and the US included so... so... foolish..?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

About that photograph we hear the following: “Children shouldn’t be used in this way."

Children are used in a similar and worse ways when they are forced to sing the Japanese (or LDP) national anthem. Forced and punished if they don’t sing at school. (Emperor Akahito, bless his heart, once remarked that people should not be forced to sign anything they don’t to.)

Let’s get closer to the our Korean girl and the flag. She is enjoying herself. She is not suffering. Now think of all the girls the Japanese used as “comfort women,” some not that much old than this little girl. Would love to hear what the people pouring out their fake compassion for the little girl with the flag have to say about that.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Children are used in a similar and worse ways when they are forced to sing the Japanese (or LDP) national anthem. Forced and punished if they don’t sing at school. 

Singing a national anthem only praises the country that the person belongs to, it doesn't target and denigrate other nations... but it's good to hear you support those that choose not to stand for it.

Let’s get closer to the our Korean girl and the flag. She is enjoying herself. She is not suffering. Now think of all the girls the Japanese used as “comfort women,” some not that much old than this little girl. Would love to hear what the people pouring out their fake compassion for the little girl with the flag have to say about that.

The girl is cute... so what? She's enjoying herself... so what? It's not about compassion for her, it's about the method of using children to further these types of agendas. It's disgusting.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Children shouldn’t be used in this way."

But of course brainwashing in Kagoike style Nippon Kaigi endorsed kindergartens is perfectly fine by you no doubt...

To me she looks like a passerby mum got her to stand and take a pic with a bunch of dressed up dudes with make up who put a Korean flag in her hand ....in what way is she " used" ? ...yet you have no problem with Koreans being " used" for forced labor and sex slavery...yep they were all volunteers and JIA were a merry band of peaceful loving , flower carrying ojisans who self sacrificed to liberate fellow Asian brethren from the evil western colonists....yep, bizzaro world is a great place to be living in.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

SJ  11:40 am JST

The present could not exist without the past. This kind of historic distort is not just confined to the WWII. Let me say one example.

Did Korea apologize and pay compensation to Vietnam people for massacre officially as Japan did to neighbor countries? Korean government said President Moon statement on his visit to Vietnam in 2018 was not an apology.

Does Mongolian school teach damages to Korean people on Mongol empire invasion to Korea?

expatToday  02:47 pm JST

I cannot recall ever reading of even a single instance of Korea invading Japan in the past 5,000 years.

There is no major invasion or colonization. But small one yes.

(1) Syngman Rhee Line attacking fisherman ships.

(2) Disputed island, Dokdo/Takeshima. When you claim right for a disputed area , you do that but at least leave it there to pay a respect to other, and you wouldn't put your stuff there obvious way.

Korean built a base there.

Japan is mature and let Korea do as it wishes and trying to avoid conflict.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

While I can completely accept the atrocities committed during the war and the oppression of Japanese rule in Korea, I think there is a certain unwillingness to examine the actions of the corrupt and authoritarian regimes that governed South Korea until 1987. Aside from their own brutality and the crimes committed against their own people (and during their involvement in the Vietnam War), this is a government that chose development loans, infrastructure assistance and business investment over the payments to victims that some other nations received. If I were South Korean, I suspect I would be very angry about the various actions committed by the pre-democracy regime. It's not just the Japanese who could be considered responsible for the lack of compensation. Especially when the Korean responsible for the treaty was an intelligence officer in the Imperial Army and involved with the suppression of Korean resistance to Japanese rule.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Regarding the photo in this article, I do not see any problem. Nowadays, civil demonstrations in the street tend to become a kind of cultural festival in S. Korea, which is unique in the world as they leaded to a shift in the political regime without violence and within the judiciary.

The mother and the children just enjoy an outdoor event as in history museums. I guess they were just bystanders. Only adults with malicious intention will try to pick up a problem there. The problem already exists in their mind set even without the photo, but there is no problem in the real world there. To my eyes, the mother loves the kid, and the kid loves the mother.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

It's too bad SK top court could not call for scrapping 1965 treaty itself, scared of too much spurt of blood from all-over places (not just Japan)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But of course brainwashing in Kagoike style Nippon Kaigi endorsed kindergartens is perfectly fine by you no doubt...

Not at all. Please point to wherever I said anything of the sort. That would be disgusting too. However from your post it seems you're ok if the Koreans do it but not Japanese. That's really quite interesting.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The mother and the children just enjoy an outdoor event as in history museums. I guess they were just bystanders. Only adults with malicious intention will try to pick up a problem there. The problem already exists in their mind set even without the photo, but there is no problem in the real world there. To my eyes, the mother loves the kid, and the kid loves the mother.

@SJ

I hate Japanese "hate-speech demonstration" at all. I never join it. Demonstrators are marching in streets sometimes. If same thing happened really just like happy mother taking a picture of her child in/before the hate-speech group at park, I just wonder, Can you say same thing?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Is it a Halloween party in Seoul? Those zombie soldiers were very happy instead of protesting! Anyway good luck for your law suit!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@SJ

I think that's largely a cultural thing, and it has to do with the island mentality and a culture of bullying and shaming people who don't conform to the group norms. It's the same in England. If you look at the way they report foreign countries, or issues related to England and a foreign country, especially recently with Brexit, you would see the exact same thing as you see in Japan. They are very one-sided, they only report news or info that advanes their case or their narrative while ignoring everything else, they cherry pick facts, they make up half-truths, sometimes complete lies, and basically everything is extremely one-sided, you never hear anything bad or negative of England, just like you never hear anything bad or negative of Japan on the Japanese media. Both countries have a very distorted perception of their own country as well as the outside world as a result of being exposed to cherry picked and carefully worded information their whole lives.

It has to do with desire to sava face and avoid punishment. In Japanese society, starting from schools, people who deviate slightly from the group ''norm'' are severely punished, it's the same in England. So for these people admitting guilt or wrong doing automatically equals punishment, which they are trying to avoid at all cost.

Unfortunatelly resolving the issue of history between SK and Japan might require cultural changes first. On the bright side, cultural changes are happening.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

I think that's largely a cultural thing, and it has to do with the island mentality and a culture of bullying and shaming people who don't conform to the group norms. It's the same in England. If you look at the way they report foreign countries, or issues related to England and a foreign country, especially recently with Brexit, you would see the exact same thing as you see in Japan. They are very one-sided, they only report news or info that advanes their case or their narrative while ignoring everything else, they cherry pick facts, they make up half-truths, sometimes complete lies, and basically everything is extremely one-sided, you never hear anything bad or negative of England, just like you never hear anything bad or negative of Japan on the Japanese media. Both countries have a very distorted perception of their own country as well as the outside world as a result of being exposed to cherry picked and carefully worded information their whole lives.

It has to do with desire to sava face and avoid punishment. In Japanese society, starting from schools, people who deviate slightly from the group ''norm'' are severely punished, it's the same in England. So for these people admitting guilt or wrong doing automatically equals punishment, which they are trying to avoid at all cost.

Unfortunatelly resolving the issue of history between SK and Japan might require cultural changes first. On the bright side, cultural changes are happening.

Don't know how long you lived in Japan but seems you're the one holdings onto what you want to believe.

Origins of all those disputes called, "Comfort women", "Nanking Massacre", "Forced Labor, etc" started first

from inside of Japan by the hands of Japanese. Look at what's going on in S.K. With anything you say pro-Japan, you would be socially crossed out. See the big difference?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Next month another firm to pay again. tsk tsk

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@showchinmono

Thanks for proving my point, which is mainly how information-deprived you are.

These issues did not start in Japan, they have a long history dating back to the early PMs of Japan visiting the Yasukuni shrine and antagonizing Korea, then Nixon visiting China, followed by Japanese PM visiting China and trying to normalize the relations. Korea started demanding apology and compensation from Japan more loudly and strongly long time ago. These countries have never not demanded Japan stop whitewashing history. When and how were their demands known to the public in Japan is another question.

Also, during the Fukushima and tsunami crisis, SK was the first nation to organize nation-wide donation campaign. Students from all across the country donated money to Japan. Was that ever reported in Japan? You didn't know about it. When that Korean magazine had an article titled ''how to recognize a radiated Japanese'', it was again Koreans who widely criticized it and demanded the magazine pull out that cover. Was that reported in Japan? I can give you a lot of other examples, but i made my point clear.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

@Ilovecoffe

 

Drawing analogy to England, you described Japan as followings

 

They are very one-sided, they only report news or info that advanes their case or their narrative while ignoring everything else, they cherry pick facts, they make up half-truths, sometimes complete lies, and basically everything is extremely one-sided, you never hear anything bad or negative of England, just like you never hear anything bad or negative of Japan on the Japanese media. Both countries have a very distorted perception of their own country as well as the outside world as a result of being exposed to cherry picked and carefully worded information their whole lives.

 

Did CCP take up Nanking Massacre as an issue to be solved when normalizing diplomatic relationship with Japan in 1972, or concluding Peace and Friendship Treaty in 1978?   Never.

If it is such an issue, Why?

 

Asahi Newspaper and the reporter Honda Katsuichi had already started putting running story of Nanking Incident titled “Journey to China” in 1971. It is the leader of Socialist Party of Japan who suggested and donated to build Nanking Massacre Memorial.

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%97%E4%BA%AC%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6%E8%AB%96%E4%BA%89%E5%8F%B2

 

As for Comfort Women issue, You wouldn’t say it was there as well-known issue infuriating entire people in S.K going back as far as when 1965 treaty concluded, would you? or S.K government has been telling lies?

Lying that they didn't know there existed such issue and hence not covered by the treaty?

Starting from Ienaga Saburou, Senda Kakou in late 60’s and early70’s, Yoshida Seij in 80’s, not to mention Asahi News paper, and Japanese Academia like Prof. Yoshimi, Prof Hayashi//etc Japanese and Japanese NPO has been main driving force to make entire South Korea get shocked and realize how serious the issues could be. It is so obvious from the fact the strongest activity group Chong Dae Hyup has been relying heavily on Prof Yoshimi and others and the partner in Japan like WAM to sustain it’s long-lasting activities.

 

Other than Chong Dae Hyup which was organized much later on, the root of the disputes has been inside of Japan from the beginning.

 

Now I rewrite what you have posted. Think twice if Japan as a nation has been one-sided or not.

 

*T*hey are very one-sided, they only report news or info that advanes their case or their narrative while ignoring everything else, they cherry pick facts, they make up half-truths, sometimes complete lies, and basically everything is extremely one-sided, you never hear anything bad or negative of England, just like you never hear anything bad or negative of Japan on the Japanese media.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

SJJan. 19  04:13 pm JST

Regarding the photo in this article, I do not see any problem. Nowadays, civil demonstrations in the street tend to become a kind of cultural festival in S. Korea,

This in a nutshell is why South Korea continues to pass on anti-Japan sentiment from generation to generation. Young people who have no first hand experience or unbiased knowledge of Korea during the colonial period keeping the flame of hate alive. This is why South Korea, despite it's advances, will never be a forerunner or leader in East Asia.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Time for Japan's businesses to pack up and return to the motherland.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@kwatt

I hate Japanese "hate-speech demonstration" at all. I never join it. Demonstrators are marching in streets sometimes. If same thing happened really just like happy mother taking a picture of her child in/before the hate-speech group at park, I just wonder, Can you say same thing?

Hate-speech group? Have you ever heard any speech in S. Korea? The only hate-speech group I have seen in Seoul is fundamental, shamanized and Koreanized Christians. You can see them in the front of Seoul station everyday. Most Koreans do not like some diplomatic policies of the Japanese government, not Japanese people. I have many Japanese friends who are far more intellectual than you.

Performance with ancient or foreign attire is common around the world.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@IloveCoffee

I think that's largely a cultural thing, and it has to do with the island mentality and a culture of bullying and shaming people who don't conform to the group norms.

Yes. I also have thought about it, and I have felt the same tendency. But comments in the internet such as this site may not represent the overall thoughts of Japanese people.

@hachikou

You said Japan is island mentality and one-sided view when talking about Korea..

I show you the truth.

There are various people in Korea, and opinions and thoughts greatly differ among Koreans. Personally I do not like some Koreans who do marketing anti-Japanese sentiment to earn money, especially those who make and sell the statues of a girl regarding the sex slave. Some politicians utilize Dokdo and the sex slave issues. That kind of jingoists exist in any country, but can not represent the majority.

But, in Japan, it is different. When reading comments in the internet, I am always surprised that most of Japanese are ultra-right chauvinists.

@OssanAmerica

This in a nutshell is why South Korea continues to pass on anti-Japan sentiment from generation to generation

Do you have any idea what Uwajima Ushi-oni Festival celebrates? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwajima_Ushi-oni_Festival

As long as the Japanese government distort the Japanese history, covering from the old-stone age to the modern period, with respect to neighboring countries, anti-Japan sentiment in your term will continue. If you have not yet heard about the distorted archaeology and anthropology by Japanese political leaders, I would recommend the following book:

https://www.amazon.com/Ruins-Identity-Ethnogenesis-Japanese-Islands/dp/0824821564

Its summary can be found in the following internet link: https://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455/

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@Jim Harper

If I were South Korean, I suspect I would be very angry about the various actions committed by the pre-democracy regime.

Of course, various actions including some commissions initiated by the Korean government, have been made, and it is still on going. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_ReconciliationCommission(South_Korea)

Based on the investigations, Korean courts have ordered the Korean government to pay compensations to the individual victims and their survived family.

Regarding this case of individual claims from forced labors, the Korean government may have to pay compensation, too, together with the Japanese companies in Korea, depending on the decision of Korea Supreme court in a few years.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@SJ

I still want to hear you as though you said bunch of your things. I ask concretely If you looked at the picture in an article that shows mother taking a picture of her child holding a little flag with anti-SKorean hate-speech group holding big flags together in Tokyo. Not in Seoul. Would you say "Regarding the photo in this article, I do not see any problem"? This is I want to hear, nothing else.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@showchinmono

Because they were prioritizing economic development, and the issue of Nanking was not top priority. Even the Chinese president said that to the Japanese delegation. So you are actually suggesting that the Chinese side did NOT raise the issue of Nanking Massacre, and it is the Japanese media that did that? You must be joking. Just because the Chinese side did not demand any formal apologies from Japan at the first meeting does not mean it was not an issue for them. The Japanese paper wrote a story about something well known, they did not demand any apology on their behalf, and the issue was raised by the Chinese side later on. I struggle to even understand your logic. So you think the Chinese did not care about this issue, and one day they saw the Japanese media write an article about it, and then they decided to built all these memorials, start teaching it in schools, and several years later demand apology from Japan? Do you hear yourself?

Same with SK. Of course it wasn't a well-known issue in the 60s. Korean war ended in the 50s. SK hadn't even began its development in the 60s. You think people who can't find what to eat will care about social or historical issues? On top of that, if you had actually listened to what the Comfort Women themselves have said, you would've known that they did not want to even talk about their experiences. Only eventually they talked about it, and it became a national priority after the country became developed. What NPO are you talking about? So you think the people of SK found out about the comfort women issue by reading an asahi newspaper article?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

But of course brainwashing in Kagoike style Nippon Kaigi endorsed kindergartens is perfectly fine by you no doubt...

But of course brainwashing in Kagoike style Nippon Kaigi endorsed kindergartens is perfectly fine by you no doubt...

Not at all. Please point to wherever I said anything of the sort. That would be disgusting too. '

In that case we are on the same page. My comment was to Ossan btw.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@IloveCoffee

 

Because they were prioritizing economic development, and the issue of Nanking was not top priority.

 

Yeah. Yeah. Give us economic cooperation first. We will revenge later in return. Right?

 

Even the Chinese president said that to the Japanese delegation.

 

Chinese President? Who?  Didn’t know PRC has presidential government. When? normalizing diplomacy in 1972 or concluding Peace Treaty in 1978? Give me a link will you?

 

So you are actually suggesting that the Chinese side did NOT raise the issue of Nanking Massacre, and it is the Japanese media that did that?

 

Hello?

Back to the main subject. Your post was

 

They are very one-sided, they only report news or info that advanes their case or their narrative while ignoring everything else, they cherry pick facts, they make up half-truths, sometimes complete lies, and basically everything is extremely one-sided, you never hear anything bad or negative of England, just like you never hear anything bad or negative of Japan on the Japanese media. Both countries have a very distorted perception of their own country as well as the outside world as a result of being exposed to cherry picked and carefully worded information their whole lives.

 

Have you ever read Asahi Newspaper while you lived in Japan? When you say “They”, are you excluding those media or the reporters and academia or Association of Returnees from China? Who are they if not Japanese?

 

Same with SK. Of course it wasn't a well-known issue in the 60s. Korean war ended in the 50s. SK hadn't even begun its development in the 60s. You think people who can't find what to eat will care about social or historical issues?

 

Yeah. Yeah. Give us money and we will return revenge later. Right?

 

On top of that, if you had actually listened to what the Comfort Women themselves have said, you would've known that they did not want to even talk about their experiences. Only eventually they talked about it,

 

Yes I know. Kim Hak-sun finally showed up 1991 winter

 

and it became a national priority after the country became developed.

 

Why did S.K has to wait till it developed?

 

What NPO are you talking about? So you think the people of SK found out about the comfort women issue by reading an asahi newspaper article?

 

Too much “You think?” putting words into my mouth. Point where I said Asahi woke up entire S.K.

 

So I paste what you posted for the 3rd times.

 

They are very one-sided, they only report news or info that advanes their case or their narrative while ignoring everything else, they cherry pick facts, they make up half-truths, sometimes complete lies, and basically everything is extremely one-sided, you never hear anything bad or negative of England, just like you never hear anything bad or negative of Japan on the Japanese media. Both countries have a very distorted perception of their own country as well as the outside world as a result of being exposed to cherry picked and carefully worded information their whole lives.

 

Define “They” or declare None of those Asahi news, those reporters, academia, NPO and activists are Japanese.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@kwatt

@SJ

I still want to hear you as though you said bunch of your things. I ask concretely If you looked at the picture in an article that shows mother taking a picture of her child holding a little flag with anti-SKorean hate-speech group holding big flags together in Tokyo. Not in Seoul. Would you say "Regarding the photo in this article, I do not see any problem"? This is I want to hear, nothing else.

In S. Korea, I have never seen any hate-speech group based on nationality. Teaching the past history does not mean hatred.

What is happening in Japan regarding history education, I just cite one example.

After World War II, it became common to use the term Japanese to mean all the inhabitants of the Islands, past and present. In his 1951 book Nihon Minzoku no Keisei (The Formation of the Japanese People), Toma Seita takes the basic approach that "The Japanese have inhabited this Japanese archipelago from the beginning" (Toma 1951, 1). Historian Inoue Kiyoshi (1963, 1) writes, "From as far back in our history as it is possible to go through until the present, we Japanese have lived as the same race (shuzoku) in the same region the present Japanese archipelago." The influence of this view in contemporary Japan is shown by Bornoff's (1991, 25) description of a small boy's visit to the 1988 Tokyo National Science Museum exhibition on Japanese origins:*

"Although we are Jomon people," [the boy] read aloud from a notice flanking the exhibit, "we can speak Japanese." When [one of the female attendants pretending to be a Jomonette] congratulated him effusively on his reading abilities, the little boy cried out "Yappari, Nihonjin-da!" with a mixture of surprise and relief: "I thought soshe's Japanese!" The thought that Jomon people might have been otherwise, even to a small boy, is disturbing.

cited from the book "Ruins of Identity: Ethnogenesis in the Japanese Islands" by Mark Hudson (1999).

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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