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S Korean visit left as unfinished business for new emperor

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The Koreans have been given already so many opportunities to end it. But they've proved they were not ready, every time. Are they really, really ready to accept apology and an mutual agreement that cannot be reversed to end it, or just looking for another opportunity to enjoy embarrassing Japan? If it is the latter, nothing Japan can do to end their "pains".

32 ( +38 / -6 )

How many apologies do you want?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

As other posters have pointed out, the Korean government wants the people to hate someone else rather than themselves and keeps this pointless debate open. #2015anyone ?

31 ( +34 / -3 )

Maybe if the Koreans would put away the silly demeaning apology cards and actually try to treat the emperor with mutual dignity and respect he would dare bring his family to visit South Korea.

27 ( +35 / -8 )

Unless South Koreans stop the daily anti Japan rallies and threats to seize Japanese assets, the Abe Cabinet will absolutely NOT be sending The Emperor there. There are so many friendly nations that would love to welcome The Emperor.

27 ( +33 / -6 )

Their rude attitude goes beyond our patience. Withdraw Japanese Embassy, consulate and businesses from South Korea.

26 ( +36 / -10 )

There's a law in South Korea banning all the Japanese Emperors from setting foot on their land.

Now , they want the Emperor to visit ? Total nonsense. Make up your mind, people. All this looks like a sign of mental illness.

Besides, the imperial family link to Korea was over 500 years ago. Time yo let it go.

23 ( +24 / -1 )

As the only representative of Japan, the Emperor has the right to visit any nations he wishes. 

Wrong again. Government makes the decision where Emperor goes or does not go outside Japan. And in this climate it won't be Korea.

21 ( +26 / -5 )

How about just one real?

Their protests signs say 'official', that's what they've already received. If Korea wont accept an apology until all Japanese agree on the comfort women issue, then they might as well give up their protests now. Otherwise they need to accept the official apologies that have already been offered.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

The Japanese government has apologized so many times already they have a herniated disc from bowing so much. What next after and "official" apology, a "double official" apology?

14 ( +17 / -3 )

The sign from that picture says it all, "we want an official apology from Japan.."

That ignorance right there tells you why the anti-Japan crowd will never let things go.

After all those apologies and compensation offers, they still whine about Japan 'never' apologizing. How official do they want it for crying out loud.

Grow up, then maybe the Emperor of Japan will be willing to visit.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

With a barrage of insults from South Korea against Japanese Emperor, it is highly unlikely that his majesty will ever visit the country.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

It's not in the Emperors position to apologise, he is not political. It is the prime ministers job to apologise, and this has already been done.

Moon is a joke and stirs the patriotic pot for his own career. What happened to all this Korean unification flag-waving then? What happened after all the Olympic unification nonsense? That's right, no unification whatsoever, just an election attraction.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Even if Japan should apologize on this time, next Presidents of ROK assert it is not enough.

Endless request like naughty kids.

Korea seems to be the insurance con man who appears in a car crash.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Time to move on I think, are we responsible for our grandfathers, fathers or even our brothers crimes?

There are those who would like to hold Japan down, the economic success and fairly successful integration of western business and aspects of law into an asian country while keeping its identity, culture and language largely intact is the main source of pain for its neighbors I suggest.

We have the usual China apologist in the thread, again South Korea is much more like Japan in many ways than Mainland China, I believe South Korea have to be more forward looking, to keep democratic control of their country being closer to Japan and the US is the better of the admittedly difficult choices.

War is terrible and there is no doubt Japan did awful things but that isn't the Japan of today, much like Germany isn't the Germany of the war either.

I don't doubt, much like we see in the US, much of this discontent is encouraged and pushed by other countries that think they will benefit from a lack of co-operation in the region.

True peace is only possible when we look to the future, look of the actions of countries now, not the past... Japan is not the risk in this region.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Another day and another episode of this K- drama. Japan, time to turn the channel.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

smith, as you have a Korean family background and you would know more about this than most of us here, maybe you can explain President Moon's position on apologies, comfort women, and unification teams at various Olympics? Is it not true that Moon has used these topics for political gain? That he is happy for the apology and comfort women subjects to be brought to the boil?

I am really interested to hear your opinion on why every time an Olympics comes along Moon gets together with Kim, produces a unification flag, which then results in no reunification whatsoever but a nice bit of PR at the cost of whoever is hosting the Olympics.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@ Bungle:  Koreans being China's useful idiots again.

.

Indeed!

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Their protests signs say 'official', that's what they've already received

Yes, but S. Koreans only learn fake news in history class and probably don't even know about Japan's apologies.

And these protesters are probably paid.

I used to think only N. Korea was China's attack dog, but it seems so is S. Korea. One barks and the other yaps.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

smithinjapan: Has Japan demanded an apology from the U.S.? No. Has Japan apologized to Korea? Yes. Perhaps Japanese is your second language? Maybe YOUR 'just say 'sorry'' was actually done just not as direct as YOU would like.

If Korea was truly in need of an apology, why does the South Korean 'apology demand curve' spike whenever a politician is in trouble or the South Korean economy is in trouble? In other words, it seems that the apology demand spikes for South Korean convenience. Whereas, South Korean travel to Japan increases every year and doesn't seem to fluctuate very much. Pretty good indication that Japan doesn't need to apologize yet again.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

The South Koreans have no idea what they want. If they can collectively decide on exactly what will make them happy and finally shut up, decide it and submit to Japan. And then after Japan gives in, be prepared that a new group will crop up to complain how they aren't happy/satisfied and want new demands. These things never end.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@ gogogo, I read the list of apologies, crikey! I didn't realise that there had been so many apologies, good link.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

New Emperor in Japan, same guff from South Korea... it will never end, no matter how many apologies they get.

"It wasn't sincere enough..."

Boo hoo... my great uncle Ross was held in a German POW camp after Dunkirk and was forced to work in a mine in Poland by the SS. Do I bang on about it? Do I hell. I LIKE the Germans. Why can't people just get on with their lives?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

China/NK/Russia/US don't want a good Japan-SK relation.  They also keep brainwashing the world with fabricated history as if Japan was bad.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

The question politically is accountability.

It is preposterous to insist that this Government, or the people of Japan are morally or from legal viewpoint responsible for the actions of Imperial Japanese Army or Government.

The diplomatic agreement, contained within the Korea-Japan Treaty of 1965 established "normal" diplomatic relations. This after fourteen years of negotiations.

If the 1965 Korea-Japan agreement treaty should or needs be 're-estimated' there are clear procedures within the dispute resolution articles within the treaty to do so.

However the Government of South Korea hos chosen a course of action to politicise own Judicial System in a duplicitous attempt to circumvent the 1965 Korea-Japan Treaty in contempt international law.

It is important to separate the people from the deceitful actions of Moon Jae-in Government to divert attention away from his political and economic failures in office.

Any suggestion Emperor Naruhito accepts an invitation are frivolous, ill conceived imprudence whilst Moon Jae-in government continues to politically poison future generations.

The manner in which Moon Jae-in Government is actively consummate allowing frail pensioners in the twilight years of there lives, paraded wheelchair bound to make a political point is shameful.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

South Korea, in 1965 you and Japan singed the Treaty on Basic Relations, where Japan ended up to pay a lot of money to South Korea. Why don't you accept this agreement? It was accepted and signed by your leaders.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Take a look at the picture. Not one of these protesters had been born by 1945. In fact the majority were born in the Nineties or after.

Clearly they are anti-Japanese activists with no experience of WWII whatsoever.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I'm wondering what would make an apology official. And by the same token, is there any concept of "official forgiveness"?

It must be great to belong to a country that has never done bad things to other countries.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Haha guess what Germany is dealing with in 2019.

Demand for compesation from multiple countries in the billions worth! Greece, Poland alone want hundreds of billions and Germany has said No! It's over and done with!

Listen to Germany Japan, follow Germany, no more compesation, it was paid it the past just like the Germans, but even they are not paying multiple times for the same issue! Japan is unique how much they've done for S. Korea! Even Germany hasn't done this much when it comes to apology and compensation.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

This should become an NHK drama. It is boring and goes on and on and on.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

It is logical that Korea and Japan, and China for that matter, should all be on a friendly basis, although the history of the last 150 years doesn't help matters. I am reminded of the history of Canada, Britain, and the US. As is well-known, the US and Britain fought two wars, the latest about 200 years ago. At that time, the US invaded Canada, unsuccessfully. Today, despite Trump's best efforts, we are all still very friendly. Given enough time, and no more hostilities in the region, it is not unreasonable to hope that the Far Eastern countries will learn to live in harmony with each other.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@quecertum

The comparison with Germany has this angle: Germany did far worse yet they are able to put it in the past. If Germany is able to do what it takes for far worse atrocities, why can’t Japan for lesser offenses?

 

Were they? Then let me repeat what mods deleted: Idiotic comparison with German model should require to clarify what exactly Germans have done for Deutsche Kolonien und Schutzgebiete including Deutsch-Neuguinea、Deutsch-Südwestafrika 、Deutsch-Ostafrika 、Kamerun、Togo、Deutsch-Witu 、 Samoa 、Kiautschou.

Did Germany ever make sincere or official apologies to these countries? Did you know if German treated them so nicely that they don’t even ask for apologies?  Japan did take ultimate responsibilities as ruler of the peninsula during the period and thus kept apologized , sent letters, for whatever, even for so dubious claims all painted black only by Korean narratives. Do you know what I mean?

In the end, the image of Japan in the world’s eyes goes down because the attitude of the Japanese is we don’t care to have good relations with Korea because our neighbor is impossible to deal with.

Let me ask you, what do you think could possibly make the Japanese end up thinking as such?

 

If a Japanese feels “the heck with Korea and Koreans,” he is about as mature as a teenager imo. I know plenty of mature Japanese who desire better relations with their Korea and are willing to work for it.

 

Let me rephrase “the heck with your personal experience” 

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Ive said it once and I'll say it again. Nothing short of the German model of contrition for acts perpetrated against innocents is acceptable. That's it.

Comparing Japan to Korea with Germany to Jew is in itself pointless or ridiculous. And trying to link Yasukuni visit to this issue is even more ridiculous.

You should turn around your face and say that again and again to EX-Western Powers where everywhere around the entire globe.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Let's say the current German administration denies Hitler did anything wrong, and that there never was any holocaust, then starts demanding Poland and Israel remove all "anti-German" statutes. What do you think is going to happen next?

1) Poland and Greece already have demanded more compensation from Germany.

“As long as Germany does not pay off Poland’s debt for World War II — and we are talking about an amount of not less than $900 billion –

2) Second, Europe is Europe and Asia is Asia. The western powers had colonies in Asia. There is a big difference

2 ( +3 / -1 )

All of this will not happen if bad things didn't happen not long ago.

That may be so, but Japan lost that war, Japan suffered heavy losses due to conventional and nuclear warfare, Japan has apologized many times publicly, and Japan has paid South Korea alone almost 1 Billion dollars in restitution, grant's, and very low income loans. (much of which was in the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's when that was a lot bigger fee. But why not try to get as much as they can am I right?)

Japan has the least neighbors on planet Earth. Japan disputes with them all. Why ?

It is my sincere hope that Emperor works independently, gives fresh and sane voice of Japanese people.

It's funny you mention what Japan did over 75 years ago, the amount of neighbors they have, how they don't get along with them. China is right next door, and has a close number of neighbors, yet you seem to have no concern about the over 1.2 Million Tibetans killed by China between 1949 and 1979? (I guess it's not an issue if there is nobody left to complain and you just take over their country like they were never there.) China's constant border skirmishes with India in just the last 2 to 3 years must be a sign of a good relationship. (A country that has a Pact with Japan specifically covering open war with China.) China constantly fights with the U.N. about recognizing Taiwan Sovereignty. (A country that has been independent for over 105 years, but China constantly claims to own.)

Also while South Korea and China may agree that they're angry with Japan, it's about the only thing they agree on. For example the issue of the sovereignty of Taiwan and Koreas high altitude defense program in south Korea strain relations between China and Korea to this day. Lastly and worst of all not only is China ok with forced slavery within its own country, but they are trying to economically subjugate other countries and forcing them into economic servitude to Chian. (But no Japan, they have the worst relations with their neighbors in the region and the world.)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

 Government by default needs to continue when the members change, which is why individuals work on behalf of the government, not on behalf of themselves. Therefore actions by the government don't expire simply because the people have changed. 

South Koreans and it's supreme court should rather listen to this

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Certainly any political solutions to remedy historic grievance are a distant prospect under either administrations.

Past Japan leadership/Prime Minsters have expressed contrition, the so called political apology, the first should have been the last.

However Governments, one after the other, have expressed penitence, may I suggest as ill advised acts of diplomatic obligation.

The present Government of South Korea demands retribution, not contrition to fulfil a malign belligerent political agenda, proportioning blame regardless of any future authority or government.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Idiotic comparison with German model should be discussed along with how the peninsula was annexed by Imp-Japan which should go beyond only Korean narratives

1 ( +4 / -3 )

IloveCoffeeMay 4  10:06 pm JST

@showchinmono

Why don't you lead by example and show Koreans how happy you are with the Atomic bombings and the American occupation of Japan, since that led to a lot of positive changes for Japan, like a new constitution that allowed your country to become rich.

Japan has not been this sticky demanding official or sincere apology from US in the 1st place. Neither have any other ex-colonies from ex-powers as long as I know. Comparing Japan with German is just silly.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It’s too bad the Japanese and Koreans can’t get along with each other. Like two brothers fighting all the time. We need a mother to come in and slap both of them silly..こら!!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It is preposterous to insist that this Government, or the people of Japan are morally or from legal viewpoint responsible for the actions of Imperial Japanese Army or Government.

You're right about the people, wrong about the government. As long as it is the same nation, government has responsibilities for the actions of government, even if all the people have changed. If we attribute the actions of government to the requirement that the individuals not have changed, government loses any permanence, and essentially fails. Government by default needs to continue when the members change, which is why individuals work on behalf of the government, not on behalf of themselves. Therefore actions by the government don't expire simply because the people have changed. If there is something to be atoned for, the passage of time is not an acquittal of guilt when it comes to government.

Almost no Japanese people are left alive who perpetuated the actions of Japan up to and during WWII. Therefore almost no Japanese people hold any blame for what happened. But that same logic cannot be used to excuse the government from responsibility for its actions.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

That is my honest opinion for what it is worth not a papal bull.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

IloveCoffeeToday  06:40 pm JST

@extanker

Let me ask you a question. Let's say the current German administration denies Hitler did anything wrong, and that there never was any holocaust, then starts demanding Poland and Israel remove all "anti-German" statutes. What do you think is going to happen next? I am Europe, i can tell you right now that the backlash will not be limited to just mere protests of people holding signs like it is in Korea, it will be very, very violent. Not only is everyone in Europe going to demand Germany apologize for denying their war crimes, they are also going to demand they apologize for their war crimes as well. Now imagine a new even more right-wing administration comes among and says "We are not going to apologize because we already did 20 years ago, even though we don't necessarily agree with it". How do you think this will be received?

I don't care if you meant you are now in Europe or you are European. One thing clear. What happened during 1910~1945 on the peninsula and how it happened were not even close to what happened to Jew by NSDAP. South Korea has been and still trying to erase all the positive aspects or even happier memories experienced by the citizen on the peninsula during the period. Just compare VOICES from Taiwan or all other ex-Imperial-Japan's colonies against the ones from the peninsula.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

There is a solution for future generation through a comprehensive programme of eductio. Also an independent commission to over-see it's implementation.

However the political will to achieve such a undertaking is seriously lacking. And I fear relations will deteriorate further until common sense prevails.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Because there is no need to. No American politician, let alone a sitting president have ever expressed any remarks that could even loosely be interpreted as denying the atomic bombings happened, or making statements antagonizing Japan such as "Well, American solders had to rape Japanese girls for relief".

 

Atomic bombings and Holocaust were real and undeniable. Korean narratives about legitimacy of annexation, comfort women issues, war time labor issues containing fabrications, exaggerations, lies, are not at all. You seem to be presenting another wrong comparison here again. Nonetheless Japan has kept apologizing taking responsibilities for ruling of the peninsula during the period.

 

Why don’t you lead by Japan’s example and show ex-powers how to behave toward their ex-colonies.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Ilovecoffe

Need some proof? This is very fresh one. One of the bravest Korean scholars, Prof. Lee Yong-hoon Seoul Univ. criticizing false accusation by Korean nationals regarding wartime labors issue and it's supreme court verdict. Watch this in the middle of the video

(around 9:25~)

Lying People Lying Nation False Judgment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVzs4yNBtw

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@ Strangerland.

> But that same logic cannot be used to excuse the government from responsibility for its actions.

Especially when the government is in the habit of using lies and deceipt .

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@extanker

Let me ask you a question. Let's say the current German administration denies Hitler did anything wrong, and that there never was any holocaust, then starts demanding Poland and Israel remove all "anti-German" statutes. What do you think is going to happen next? I am Europe, i can tell you right now that the backlash will not be limited to just mere protests of people holding signs like it is in Korea, it will be very, very violent. Not only is everyone in Europe going to demand Germany apologize for denying their war crimes, they are also going to demand they apologize for their war crimes as well. Now imagine a new even more right-wing administration comes among and says "We are not going to apologize because we already did 20 years ago, even though we don't necessarily agree with it". How do you think this will be received?

This is pretty much the same situation in your example with the difference that Germany did apologize 20 years ago, while Japan did not, even the Murayama statement wasn't an actual apology like you would expect, as it did not contain an admission of guilt, but even if it really was, which it wasn't, it doesn't matter because it was taken away many, many, many times. Japan is represented by the current administration, if the current administration denies their history, that becomes the official Japanese position, and it takes away all the previous positions. The current administration is therefore responsible for apologizing and then hoping the next administration would not reverse their apology again.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

With a barrage of insults from South Korea against Japanese Emperor, it is highly unlikely that his majesty will ever visit the country.

The text below was reported by JT on the day Akihito abdicated. Hardly an insult, in fact very complementary.

"Asian leaders have offered thanks to Emperor Akihito on the occasion of his abdication, with South Korean President Moon Jae In expressing his appreciation to the 85-year-old for helping develop ties between the two countries".

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Let me ask you, what do you think could possibly make the Japanese end up thinking as such?

The Koreans of course. The blame game. It takes two to tango.

Haven’t you ever let your brother eat your okashi-snack, listen to him deny that he ate it, and let him have yours in the future to avoid fighting?

This is where Japan has a chance to exhibit leadership with minimal sacrifice but many throw away the spoon too easily.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@BigYen

I have explained to you and proved you that these statements you keep copying are not real apologies, and then i explained above that even if they were, which they weren't, they were all reversed and taken away by the denial of the current and previous administrations.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@showchinmono

Why don't you lead by example and show Koreans how happy you are with the Atomic bombings and the American occupation of Japan, since that led to a lot of positive changes for Japan, like a new constitution that allowed your country to become rich.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Japan has not been this sticky demanding official or sincere apology from US in the 1st place.

Because there is no need to. No American politician, let alone a sitting president have ever expressed any remarks that could even loosely be interpreted as denying the atomic bombings happened, or making statements antagonizing Japan such as "Well, American solders had to rape Japanese girls for relief".

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

We strive for a peaceful world. Having said that we don't go around slapping people for no reason, and we do we accept, by default, that the worst can happen ( death ). Why ? because we don't get to determine how much force the retaliation should be. Likewise, in this case S.Korea WILL determine what is good enough for them , NOT Japan. It's is not literature where we'll put a pound of flesh on the weighing scales.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Schopenhauer: "Their rude attitude goes beyond our patience. Withdraw Japanese Embassy, consulate and businesses from South Korea."

As opposed to someone who denies the atrocities? Why would you possibly be against an OFFICIAL apology?

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Anyone claiming apologies already made while having government officials visiting shrines to pay homage to internationally recognized war criminals is clearly stuck in a massive cognitive dissonance bubble.

Ive said it once and I'll say it again. Nothing short of the German model of contrition for acts perpetrated against innocents is acceptable. That's it.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

@BigYen

I have already told you that the previous apologies were not real apologies as they never contained an admission of guilt which i proved to you the last time. But even if they did, they were all reversed when the current administration denied their war crimes and took back the previous apologies. Read my above comment.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

One thing clear. What happened during 1910~1945 on the peninsula and how it happened were not even close to what happened to Jew by NSDAP. 

So Japan has a less challenging task

Idiotic comparison with German model should be discussed along with how the peninsula was annexed by Imp-Japan which should go beyond only Korean narratives

The comparison with Germany has this angle: Germany did far worse yet they are able to put it in the past. If Germany is able to do what it takes for far worse atrocities, why can’t Japan for lesser offenses?

In the end, the image of Japan in the world’s eyes goes down because the attitude of the Japanese is we don’t care to have good relations with Korea because our neighbor is impossible to deal with.

If a Japanese feels “the heck with Korea and Koreans,” he is about as mature as a teenager imo. I know plenty of mature Japanese who desire better relations with their Korea and are willing to work for it.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Wrong again. Government makes the decision where Emperor goes or does not go outside Japan. 

Thankfully it doesn't decide where he goes inside Japan, and, like his father, one place he'll never go is Yasukuni jinja.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

TigersTokyoDome: "It's not in the Emperors position to apologise, he is not political. It is the prime ministers job to apologise, and this has already been done."

No, he rambled like an old man, worse than Trump's "fine people on both sides". Put an OFFICIAL apology on record. None of this "regrettable things happened, war is bad". Say, "we are sorry".

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Japan has the least neighbors on planet Earth. Japan disputes with them all. Why ?

It is my sincere hope that Emperor works independently, gives fresh and sane voice of Japanese people.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

@gogogo

How about just one real?

Criticisms regarding the degree and formality of apology, issued as a statement or delivered person-to-person to the country addressed, and the perception by some that some apologies are later retracted or contradicted by statements or actions of Japan, among others.

In October 2006, Prime Minister Shinzō Abe's apology was followed on the same day by a group of 80 Japanese lawmakers' visit to the Yasukuni Shrine which enshrines more than 1,000 convicted war criminals.[57] Two years after the apology, Shinzo Abe also denied that the Imperial Japanese military had forced comfort women into sexual slavery during World War II .[58] In addition, Prime Minister Abe claimed that the Class A war criminals "are not war criminals under the laws of Japan".[59] He also cast doubt on Murayama apology by saying, "The Abe Cabinet is not necessarily keeping to it" and by questioning the definition used in the apology by saying, "There is no definitive answer either in academia or in the international community on what constitutes aggression. Things that happen between countries appear different depending on which side you're looking from."[60]

-18 ( +4 / -22 )

As the only representative of Japan, the Emperor has the right to visit any nations he wishes. From now on, the govt should quit to control everything.

-19 ( +8 / -27 )

All of this will not happen if bad things didn't happen not long ago.

-34 ( +4 / -38 )

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