S Korean wartime laborers file suit against Mitsubishi Heavy

Historical justice!? It has already been settled. What it is now is nothing more than politically motivated extortion!!

The lawyers and activists aren't going to let go of their bread and butter easily.

This is like Groundhog Day.

These S. Korean's have zero shame in my book. They are reneging on the "Treaty on Basic Relations" which was signed on June 22nd, 1965. Monetary reparations added up to $800 million at the time. The $800 million adjusted to today's dollars is around $8 billion but to the S. Korean's at the time $8 billion would have been like $30 billion. The Japanese government, at the time in 1965, wanted to deal with individuals directly but the S. Korean govt. told them they would deal with the people. The S. Korean govt. then took all the money and used it to start S. Korea's chaebols. Those chaebols have been employing S. Korean individuals for almost 60 years now. But no, no one in S. Korea wants to dig into the truth, they want more and more and more.

Keep the case going long enough and they will all be dead and the ambulance chasing lawyers will lose their nice little earner. Not that that will stop a certain type of politician from trying to stir up hatred on the basis of this for their own advantage.

Whatever happened then both countries need to move on, let the dead past bury its dead.

The two governments agreed on compensation decades ago. It is over. Done. Get over it. That goes for Japan AND Korea.

If the Koreans aren't happy with the agreement their govt made over the decades, they need to be suing their own govt.

Should descendants of the people killed in Pearl Harbor be suing Japan and Mitsubishi? Nope.

At this point, we need to be learning the true history from all sides and ensuring that it never happens again. Digging up passed mistakes by long dead people responsible doesn't help anyone.

YUP, just what I thought and stated before, this issue will NEVER BE PUT TO REST

With all respect,

I think the korean should move on and put the war time issues behind.

Japan contributed a lot to help other asian countries developed specialy Korea and Taiwan.

Taiwan does realy appreciate what Japan did for them,Korea not???

The two governments agreed to not cover the matter of damages in the 1965 treaty

Then a decade ago they agreed on a "final and irreversible" agreement, but then the Korean government changed, and the new administration found hatred of Japan to be more politically fortuitous than trying to work with their neighbors to move forward.

At a certain point, Japan needs to make an apology, regardless of whether the Koreans are ready to accept it, then move forward ignoring them. You can only apologize to someone rational enough to be willing to accept it.

The two governments agreed on compensation decades ago. It is over. Done. 

The two governments agreed to not cover the matter of damages in the 1965 treaty, so it was left out with a paper trail of diplomatic exchange notes to prove that Japanese negotiators were aware of it but ultimately decided to leave it out to be decided by future generations.

we need to be learning the true history from all sides

Only one side is provide the true history. History from the other side isn't "true" and widely rebuked as "alternate" history.

The people that lie. Education that lies, Justice that lies, Politicians that lies, The culture that lies.

If two governments had agreed like that, the part should have been appeared somewhere in the 1200 pages of dialogue which SK government had hidden for 40 years. Where is it? SK stupid claim was not covered in Article2.2 as exceptions either. and NO it was left out with a paper trail of the notes which proves that Korean negotiators actually demanded that at the table, yet , they finally and completely agreed as all the issues during Japan-ruling period solved, finally and completely, at the end where there were no need to agree the legitimacy of annexation, no more. It's DONE. You and your stupid majority of supreme judges don't just get that there's no need to agree on the scope of "claims" unless specified in Article2.2 any longer. hence, it was described as 1910 annexation treaty is already Null and void. ALREADY.

2018 supreme court verdict is basically a copy of 2012 version, which stupidly clarified that diplomatic protection was not to be abandoned by executive branch for the case. So far, 2018 verdict has not pressed executive branch hard enough to act on behalf of plaintiffs Huh?

Stop stingy copy cat. This is not about Senkaku islands. If it was decided to leave to future generations, they would have said so officially and clearly just like Deng Xiaoping did.

The forced laborers were Korean nationals. The 1965 Treaty clearly covers "nationals".

"The Contracting Parties confirm that [the] problem concerning property, rights and interests of the two Contracting Parties and their nationals (including juridical persons) and concerning claims between the Contracting Parties and their nationals, including those provided for in Article IV, paragraph (a) of the Treaty of Peace with Japan signed at the city of San Francisco on September 8, 1951, is settled completely and finally. "

To argue that the 1965 Treaty did not cover Forced Laborers is obviously a blatant lie. Anyone can read the text:

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%20583/volume-583-I-8473-English.pdf

The two governments agreed to not cover the matter of damages in the 1965 treaty, so it was left out with a paper trail of diplomatic exchange notes to prove that Japanese negotiators were aware of it but ultimately decided to leave it out to be decided by future generations.

 NO it was left out with a paper trail of diplomatic exchange notes which proves that Korean negotiators actually demanded that at the table, yet , they finally and completely agreed as all the issues during Japan-ruling period solved, finally and completely.

Why don't I become a bit clearer. Korean delegates, since day-one of 14years negotiation, had such agenda to demand for compensation for pains and suffering, damage, both physically and mentally experienced by Koreans through Japanese ruling. That is very clear when you look at the fifth round of talks under John Myeon Chang's administration of the 2nd republic. As for Japan, it had left gigantic property assets behind which counted 85% of total assets on the entire peninsula (＄5.2billion, value at the time, of which 2.2bill was located in South Korea) . Those were all forfeited once by USA and given to SK government. Therefore US told both SK and Japan to count that portion in adjusting both claims for concluding the treaty. Japan initially had an agenda to take all those Japanese assets back through this treaty...(Significant portion of those privately belonged to Japanese civilians, and Convention respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land had prohibited confiscation of civilian assets ) but gave up such agenda taking advice from US.

SK, on the other hand, gave up their initial agenda to demand compensations which are nothing but "compensation for damage suffered as a result of illegal acts directly linked with illegal occupation" , the phrase 2012/2018 what SK supreme court verdicts re-created after 50 + years since finally and completely settled treaty.

So both parties gave up their initial agendas to leave what? It is so-called " 8 items demanded by SK" which wasn't worth much , 1/10 , max, of Park Chong-hee's targeted total sum, which was merely $70million. Therefore, Japan added $300million+$500million onto it. SK took that offer and SIGNED ON FINALLY AND COMPLETELY SETTLING TREATY knowing all these flows of negotiations which were recorded on that paper trail which SK government had kept hiding.

Since some of the statements are clearly false, I will briefly describe what the 1965 Japan-Korea Basic Treaty, Agreement between Japan and the Republic of Korea on Settlement of Problems Concerning Property and Claims, and Economic Cooperation is about.

In this agreement, Japan renounces all of the capital it has invested in Korea and all of the individual property of the Japanese people, and provides approximately $1.1 billion in grants and loans to support bilateral and national claims between Japan and the ROK. We confirm that the issue is fully and finally resolved.

Can you read? "We are confirming that it has been fully and finally resolved."

The Korean government and the Korean people, who have received about 1.1 billion dollars from this agreement, cannot make any claim to Japan.

In the case of the forced laborers, it is natural to sue the South Korean government if they want to receive compensation.

Moreover, since the Roh Moo-hyun administration had already agreed that compensation would be included in the economic cooperation fund at the time of the Claims Settlement Agreement in 2005, the South Korean government prepared domestic laws to compensate the forced laborers.

The people who sued this time were those who failed to receive this compensation, but unfortunately they were not forced laborers.

Nguyen Huu MinhMar. 18  09:58 pm JST

To me, South Korean president Yoon Suk Yeol has taken a political risk trying to initiate amendments with Japan, it should be Japan's turn to really do some good wills

You really should study the issue more deeply. Pres Yoon is simply taking actions to reverse or mitigate all the massive one-way damage that his predecessor Moon created. That Japan is even willing to talk to and trust Yoon in itself is a huge act of good will on the part of the Kishida administration. Japan has always accomodated South Korea's demands, only to have the demands repeated over and over again. So yes, there is a great deal of understandable skepticism in Japan. But Kishida is still willing to go forward.

＠Samit Basu

Unlike countries such as Europe and the United States, which are ruled by law, Korea is still a country governed by empathy. South Korea is the only country where domestic law is higher than international law, and national sentiment is higher than domestic law.

Moreover, in South Korea, there is a unique law "pro-Japan law" that confiscates the property of the people by sticking the label of "pro-Japan".

It is very difficult to say that a country where the retroactive law of dealing with the past by the present law is passed openly is a law-abiding country and a developed country.

And the problem with forced labor began when Moon Jae-in appointed a Supreme Court Justice himself, and the Supreme Court Justice ordered Japanese companies to pay compensation, arguing that personal claims against Japan had not been extinguished.

Both the Japanese and Korean Diets have confirmed that claims against the Korean government have not been extinguished, but claims against Japan have already been extinguished by the 1965 treaty and agreement.

There are many Koreans who do not understand this, cannot understand it, or do not want to understand it.

Isn't your country rule of law?

Don't involve Japan in Korean domestic affairs.

＠Nguyen Huu Minh

I admire your lofty thoughts.

However, it is no exaggeration to say that it is already too late.

At least as long as Koreans do not change, Japan-Korea relations will not be better than they are now.

Here are some examples.

China and South Korea are the only countries in the world currently conducting anti-Japanese history education.

Children who have learned a fantasy history that is convenient for Korea since childhood have a strong hatred for Japan.

And about the protests of Korean prostitutes that are often talked about, do you know the person who was in charge of the activity?

She is currently a member of the South Korean National Assembly, but was convicted in the first instance for embezzling her funds in her activities. Her trial is ongoing, but according to some South Korean reports, she owns five of her houses and is wealthy enough to send her daughter to study in the United States, even though she has never had that kind of income. .

Her husband has also been sentenced to prison for allegedly participating in North Korean espionage.

Many of the deterioration of Japan-South Korea relations that began around the 1990s with the comfort women issue were caused by North Korean operatives, but South Koreans do not see through lies as lies and believe in a history that is convenient for them.

I won't write down the detailed numbers, but on the contrary, Japan has been helping South Korea and the South Korean people since before World War II, to the extent that it would be impossible for a normal country to do so.

Koreans still shamelessly criticize Japan without feeling indebted to it.

Koreans recently denied that they had unilaterally massacred the South Vietnamese people who were supposed to be their allies in the Vietnam War. There is evidence of the horrific massacre of the Korean military in American documents, but the Korean government and Korean people have neither regretted nor apologized.

Can you understand the nations and people who turn a blind eye to the truth without facing history and keep making excuses?

The so called democratic refusal to move beyond a political acceptance that advocates the need to leverage and weaponize wheel bound Yang Gum Dok, 93 is shameful.

My prediction is that Japan and South Korea will step up to the plate to ensure their own mutual survival.

Koreans who worked in Japanese mines first wanted to become miners themselves, an occupation that paid well, so they were interviewed (i.e., they went for the interview themselves) and initially lived and worked in a large room with other newcomers, moving to a private room after one or two years. He then invited his family, whom he had left behind in Korea, to come and live there as a family unit. The wives helped their husbands with cooking, laundry, etc., had children, and the children attended school. Later, as the war intensified, employment became conscripted and salaries rose further. That was the general state of Korean coal miners.

They could not successfully lie about the above details, so there are many strange parts to their testimonies.

The Korean who sued the Japanese government as the son of a miner, saying that his family was subjected to terrible things, could not lie well about the fact that his mother and children joined him later and that he was the fourth child born in the mines. There is no merit in the Japanese forcing the family to call in later, when the only decent labor was the father, and it is odd that a fourth child could be born there in terrible living conditions. Also, the fact that the family was given a room to live together as a family unit as company housing was a rather good environment.

https://www.hani.co.kr/arti/society/society_general/747613.html

Since some of the statements are clearly false, I will briefly describe what the 1965 Japan-Korea Basic Treaty, Agreement between Japan and the Republic of Korea on Settlement of Problems Concerning Property and Claims, and Economic Cooperation is about.

In this agreement, Japan renounces all of the capital it has invested in Korea and all of the individual property of the Japanese people, and provides approximately $1.1 billion in grants and loans to support bilateral and national claims between Japan and the ROK. We confirm that the issue is fully and finally resolved.

Can you read? "We are confirming that it has been fully and finally resolved."

The Korean government and the Korean people, who have received about 1.1 billion dollars from this agreement, cannot make any claim to Japan.

In the case of the forced laborers, it is natural to sue the South Korean government if they want to receive compensation.

Moreover, since the Roh Moo-hyun administration had already agreed that compensation would be included in the economic cooperation fund at the time of the Claims Settlement Agreement in 2005, the South Korean government prepared domestic laws to compensate the forced laborers.

The people who sued this time were those who failed to receive this compensation, but unfortunately they were not forced laborers.

This was confirmed by the Japanese Diet, but until October 1994, general Koreans were not recruited. The people who are currently suing in South Korea are those who came to work in Japan as migrant workers before that, and the Japanese government does not recognize them as forced laborers.

Even if they were indeed forced laborers, compensation is the responsibility of the Korean government as long as the 1965 agreement exists.

Opposition Government, democrats, refuse outright to accept J people have embraced peaceful coexistence.

May i suggest hundreds of thousands of J worshipers of BTS...

Not my flavour, if I had a hip capable to fully justify permission to dance

Look, it is the next generations that have to rectify the past to bring peace to the future.

The comfort women agreement is an agreement; it's not a treaty and is not legally binding if the comfort women refused. It can be revoked at will.

Is there anything which is legally binding in your mother country ? ( I mean... well.. forget it).

Besides, who are the comfort women? who fit the very definition precisely set by your mother country's government? ( Oops... forget it, again)

As far as I remember, there are NONE . If you or anyone objects, Just face and deal with famous Anti-Chong Dae Hyup group which is calling everything is just big comfort women fraud nowadays on every Wednesday in front of Japan Embassy.

Do you even know how your government defined comfort woman victim?

That is exactly what makes Korea different from other countries.

Treaties, agreements, and agreements between nations Even if the government concludes such things, if the people are not convinced, it can be said that they did not exist. Or it can easily be denied by the next administration.

Japan has negotiated with South Korea many times to address the issue of Korean prostitutes. However, even if an agreement is finally reached, the next administration denies it and the negotiations have to be redone again and again.

A foundation was created to solicit donations from the public and corporations and distribute them not only to Korean prostitutes but also to victims in various countries, but in the end it was never done. "Asian Women's Fund"

https://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/taisen/asia_jk_genjyo.html

Here's a Korean excuse. It is unforgivable that there was a Diet member who treated Korean victims as prostitutes in the Diet. Japan's apology is not genuine and lacks reflection.

In the end, the apology and reparations that Koreans are satisfied with are to include a false description in Japanese history textbooks that more than 200,000 Korean girls were kidnapped by the Japanese army and most of them were killed by the Japanese army.

Every time the Emperor and Prime Minister change, they come to Korea to apologize.

Provide money from Japan free of charge when Korea needs it.

Without such things, Koreans would never forgive Japan.

Impossible.

How much money is this? Let Mitsubishi pay the victims, and Yoon:s fund can pay Mitsubishi. Everyone happy!

Now this another routine makes me curious how inhumane treatment he had received.

When my age of 90s I don't want to hold that strong grudge but lead a calm rest of life...

Some Japanese politicians say the Korean labors were treated equally to Japanese ones at least in there living and wages (regardless of their will to work for Japan).

Is there any information on the plaintiffs' story about what their lives as labors were like?

I wish Japan can be sincerely and truthfully make peace with South Koreans for what had been done in the past. With the two great countries being true friends, they can support each other to survive the threats coming from China's CCP and North Korea. Adding Taiwan to that friendship, the three great countries would have a better chance of surviving a war coming from China than countries of South East Asia. To me, South Korean president Yoon Suk Yeol has taken a political risk trying to initiate amendments with Japan, it should be Japan's turn to really do some good wills toward South Koreans. National pride should not be of great concern and importance right here and right now when threats from China can be a real thing at any time.

The issue of wartime Korean slave laborers and Japan is not going away any time soon.

First topple the Yoon administration, this guy is a traitor, he is trying to help that Mitsubishi get away from their responsibility.

@theFu

The two governments agreed on compensation decades ago. It is over. Done. 

The two governments agreed to not cover the matter of damages in the 1965 treaty, so it was left out with a paper trail of diplomatic exchange notes to prove that Japanese negotiators were aware of it but ultimately decided to leave it out to be decided by future generations.

we need to be learning the true history from all sides

Only one side is provide the true history. History from the other side isn't "true" and widely rebuked as "alternate" history.

@Strangerland

"final and irreversible" agreement

The comfort women agreement is an agreement; it's not a treaty and is not legally binding if the comfort women refused. It can be revoked at will.

Just like how Yoon's plan is not legally binding and is thrown into the trash can the moment forced laborers refused.

The forced laborers demonstrated their power to reject Yoon's plan by expanding lawsuits against Mitsubishi, asking the court to hurry up and hand over frozen Mitsubishi bank account balance to them per their final Supreme court's judgement entitlement.

Only a treaty is considered legally binding, but the legal hurdle is much higher, ie needs Parliamentary approval of both sides.

Japanese and Koreans have very different understanding of governmental power. While Japanese are obedient and always follow government instructions without protesting even if they disagree, Koreans are notorious for disobedience to authority figures, following only one's conscience. This Korean tendency to resist authority figure was formed during the Imperial Japan's illegal occupation of Korea(Imperial Japan had a specific term for this Korean tendency to disregard their orders, 不逞鮮人), followed by military dictator's rules. Even though Korea's one of two truly democratic countries in Asia(The other being Taiwan), Koreans still keep that "Follow your conscience, not those in power" tradition.

This is why I keep saying that the only way the Japanese government can settle comfort women/forced labor dispute is to negotiate and settle with comfort women/forced laborer's lawyers directly, not with Korean government which has no legal authority to enforce anything.

What that company wants is a delaying tactic, until all the victim dies. This is the real shameful !

Many Koreans were conscripted by the Japanese who dominated Korea.

Being a slave is not a life choice for most people, is it?

@englisc aspyrgend

Keep the case going long enough and they will all be dead and the ambulance chasing lawyers will lose their nice little earner.

All these lawyers are working for forced laborer cases for free.

Yes, it's a hard concept to understand for people in Japan where human rights lawyers don't exist, but human rights lawyer and civil society is big in Korea; Roh Moo Hyun/Moon Jae In were such "human rights" lawyers. 

Whatever happened then both countries need to move on

Both countries can move on only if Japan issues a heart-felt, tear-dropping apology by either a Prime Minister or the Emperor(Emperor Akihito actually wanted to apologize in person to comfort women but was prevented by Abe), throw history deniers in prison(History denial is a crime in Germany, for example), and teach Japan's next generation of the horrible crimes that their great grandfathers committed.

Only then both countries can move on. Otherwise it will be settled by a war.

@Fredrik

How much money is this? Let Mitsubishi pay the victims, and Yoon:s fund can pay Mitsubishi. Everyone happy!

Mitsubishi wanted to pay the victims but was prevented from doing so by Abe and now Kishida. So the villain in this story is Abe/Kishida, not Mitsubishi.

@OssanJapan

The lawyers and activists aren't going to let go of their bread and butter easily.

These human rights lawyers are doing it for free.

@Elephant200

What that company wants is a delaying tactic, until all the victim dies

The court judgement doesn't go away even if plaintiffs die, they are simply inherited by direct descendants.

@Nayel

Taiwan does realy appreciate what Japan did for them,Korea not???

Because Taiwan desperately needs any ally to survive, Korea does not.

@SaikoPhysco

They are reneging on the "Treaty on Basic Relations" which was signed on June 22nd, 1965.

The 1965 treaty doesn't cover damages from illegal actions of Japan, like forced labor. For real? Yes really.

Respect to all of you, don't let the war perpetrators run away from the crimes long overdue. You are fighting for a historical justice!