S Korea's Moon asks for Japan's patience in resolving 'past history'

'Comfort women' is a euphemistic term referring to those forced to work in Japan's wartime brothels, an issue that has long plagued bilateral ties.

Unless the point is to subconsciously be anti-Japanese, I often wonder why, in articles like this, that this sentence and others similar to it, are repeated, ad-naseum, over and over again.

It's not like the people who read the articles here don't know about the issue, and it's not a history lesson either, as this (hopefully) site is not an "educational" one, so what's the motivation for the repetition?

Isn't this an embarrassing matter to bring it up for Koreans themselves?

Isn't this an embarrassing matter to bring it up for Koreans themselves?

Evidently not, as the Korean right-wingers are putting up their memorials to the comfort women all over the world it seems.

""The candid reality is the South Korean people don't accept the agreement on the comfort women, and, more than anything else, those comfort women don't accept the deal,"

Do the women themselves not accept it? Or are they coached by the Chong Daehyup not to accept it as they have in the past?

"But he came under fire from South Korean civic groups for possibly criticising people who support the reversal of a controversial agreement struck by Tokyo and Seoul's former conservative government in 2015 to resolve the issue."

So Japan is criticized for criticizing those who criticize the landmark 2015 Agreement between South Korea and Japan. Got it.

So it was not South Korea but a civic group. There's quite a difference between the two. And no, you could never come to an agreement with those people coz no matter what you offer them, they're using this for their secret agendas aka spreading hate. They don't want to reconcile.

So much of what passes as news here is straight Groundhog Day--the same stuff, day after day, followed by the same comments.

lol... It's not going to go away, Japan. We, in the rest of the world, are accustomed to your shameful denials and childish deflection tactics, but you are only further embarrassing yourself... In doing so you continue to draw attention to your foolishness. You can't "eradicate'" the truth no matter how inconvenient it might be for you. It is "regrettable" and "unfortunate" that you have yet to learn that reality.

Maybe the Korean people in general will accept it when the Japanese people, in general, accept it. There is still far too much whitewashing of history in Japanese textbooks. It's been going on for so long that the Japanese themselves firmly believe that they are some great victims of the war and that they were there 'helping Korea and Manchuria'. This is absolute hogwash.

If Japan stepped up like Germany did about their abhorrent past and told its people how it is, maybe Korea and China would leave the subject alone - or at least Japan would have adequate grounds to push any complaints aside. But no, it's poor Japan that is ALWAYS the poor little victim in every exchange despite attacking, bombing and terrorizing every country and island for thousands of miles just a few generations ago (the effects of which still exist). Even despite being liberated, the people chose to continue to suffer and are now returning to the nationalistic roots.

That is what grows old.

"LandofExcusesToday08:11 am JSTlol... It's not going to go away, Japan. We, in the rest of the world"

Who is the rest of the world? South Korea and to a lesser degree China are the only ones selling this song and dance act. Nobody in Japan denies the existence of the Comfort Women System, it's well documented. That some 200,000 women were kidnapped by IJA troops is a fallacy as there exists no evidence anywhere, including US archives, to support this. This is the only thing that any Japanese politician has denied and they are right to do so, it's false.

Resolved in the 1960s as a precondition to resuming diplomatic relations. The Japanese government agreed to pay compensation to the Korean government, who in turn promised to distribute the payments to the victims. The deal was signed, sealed, and secret until recently.

However the Korean government reneged on the deal. Instead of paying the victims, they used the money for infrastructure projects. That is why the victims are still confused. If the remaining comfort women want to blame anyone, they can blame their own greedy politicians. The Japanese offered to compensate the victims directly, but the Koreans refused, obviously so the money could be used in other ways.

Speaking with South Korean lawmakers, Nikai said that "those plotting schemes" to block bilateral ties from moving forward should be "eradicated",

Abe is in trouble.

I am sure that very soon Japan will have to give korea some more money for the actions of a few based on what happened a long time ago. Apologies have been made, monies have been paid. It can't be undone. Japan and Korea should heal together and learn from their mistakes.

So this deal was supposed to be "irreversibly resolved", but once again is being brought up by SK and will soon be declared void? Is there any point in even bothering anymore?

Speaking with South Korean lawmakers, Nikai said that "those plotting schemes" to block bilateral ties from moving forward should be "eradicated", several Japanese and South Korean media reported.

Korean paranoia.

Nikai did not even mention "comfort women" in his remark. He just said anyone, such as hate mongers, who is plotting to break the good relationship between the two countries should be eradicated. He is well qualified to say so. He has been working on building good relationship with Korea and China throughout his career as a politician. He belongs to Tanaka Faction which is pro Korea and pro China in LDP and has quite different political views from Abe's faction.

Now, South Korea is messing with Nikai for no good reason. It seems they cannot tell friends from enemies because of their hate against Japanese.

It seems they cannot tell friends from enemies because of their hate against Japanese.

Why would/do Koreans hate Japan so much?

A historical revisionist? Japan is the only country that would invent such a term. It's right up there with the word for 'death from overwork'. It doesn't matter how much Japan tries to revise history. The facts are already written and easy for everyone to access, except if you are reading a Japanese textbook or a Japanese hotel owner's novel, of course.

"DisillusionedToday12:20 pm JST

A historical revisionist? Japan is the only country that would invent such a term. It's right up there with the word for 'death from overwork'. It doesn't matter how much Japan tries to revise history. The facts are already written and easy for everyone to access, except if you are reading a Japanese textbook or a Japanese hotel owner's novel, of course."

Nonsense. US Army Report 49 proves the women were not kidnapped, were not slaves, were on the military payroll and some even got out and went home. This was written by the US Army in the middle of the war when we were looking for anything we could use against Japan. So what has "Japan revised"? They admit to the existence of the Comfort Women System and he details correspond to what the U.S. found. Unless you believe the Imperial Japanese Army was writing US Army interrogation reports. Clearly South Korea's Chong Daehyup activists have revised history. Even SKorean scholars have backed Japan's version of the story.

Disillusioned, hist. revisionism is hardly unique to Japan. That such people are actually running the country, OTOH.

Anyway, read the wiki on the topic.

As a Japanese American, who has a Korean American wife, it's interesting to read Japanese and Korean news outlets to see eachs perspective. It doesn't seem to be an American front burner issue.

zichiToday01:04 pm JST

Does not. The report was written on October 1, 1944 about an interrogation between Aug.20-Sept. 10, 1944 which was the end of the war.

You miscalculated 1 year. Japanese Emperor's broadcast speech to surrender was on August 15th 1945. VJ day was September 2nd, 1945.

AgentXToday11:57 am JST

It seems they cannot tell friends from enemies because of their hate against Japanese.

Why would/do Koreans hate Japan so much?

Good point. "So much", here means that they hate Japan so much as to denounce Nikai who is a long standing friend of Korea for what he did not say. I can understand they hate Japan, but cannot understand why they hate so much as to lose their sense.

Ask Koreans. Probably, Japan hating is part of their identity.

It is the only country in the world where "Japanophile" or 친일파(Chinilpa) means "national-traitor."

zichiToday02:12 pm JST

the war in Burma ended 1944.

It seems not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma_Campaign_1944%E2%80%9345

zichiToday03:33 pm JST

ok but 1944 wasn't the middle of the war.

The war in Burma stated in 1941 and ended in 1945. So, 1944 was in the middle of the war.

zichiToday03:33 pm JST

So here's a question for you then. If there were 5 million troops needing the service of a prostitute once a month, how many prostitutes would it take?

Assumptions upon assumptions. If a prostitute had taken care of 30 soldiers a day and had worked 26 days a month, 6,410 prostitutes would have been enough. 5,000,000 / 30 / 26 =6,410. But this little practice in math does not prove anything.

Assumptions upon assumptions. If a prostitute had taken care of 30 soldiers a day and had worked 26 days a month, 6,410 prostitutes would have been enough. 5,000,000 / 30 / 26 =6,410. But this little practice in math does not prove anything.

It kind of proves that you're not clear on how the female anatomy works.

@StrangerlandToday04:19 pm JST

OK, I'll let them do only 8 a day (one per hour, 8-hour workday) and it'll still be only 3 times that, or about 20,000. This generously assumes that everyone even gets the service - I mean, I don't think the guys fighting in Burma had that luxury when they don't even have food and ammunition.

More to the present day point, I am of the belief that a promise is a promise (especially since this is the 2nd one), and perhaps you should be more concerned at the Koreans. I will refrain from expletives, but those people don't want deals, they want surrender.

Covenants, deals or negotiated politically motivated pacts/undertaking will not somehow wipe away, purify emotionally intense historic grievances that remain raw and festering......The phrase "eradicated" arouses inflammatory connotation. Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida was obviously unavailable.

 "This agreement, which is highly evaluated by international society, is being steadily implemented. That is extremely important. We have conveyed this fact to the new South Korean administration through various routes,” Suga told reporters.

All the subtlety, delicacy, and nuance associated with a bilateral trade agreement.

StrangerlandToday04:19 pm JST

Assumptions upon assumptions. If a prostitute had taken care of 30 soldiers a day and had worked 26 days a month, 6,410 prostitutes would have been enough. 5,000,000 / 30 / 26 =6,410. But this little practice in math does not prove anything.

It kind of proves that you're not clear on how the female anatomy works.

Kazuaki ShimazakiToday04:41 pm JST

OK, I'll let them do only 8 a day (one per hour, 8-hour workday)

Great, Strangerland. Why don't we read what Yi Ok-seon, a Korean former comfort woman "testified"?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/the-horrific-story-of-koreas-comfort-women---forced-to-be-sex-sl/

In the comfort stations, the women and girls (the majority aged between 13 and 16) were used as sex slaves. They had to service between 30 and 40 soldiers a day.

I sort of think that she does not know female anatomy or is not telling the truth.

"zichiToday03:33 pm JSTCH3CHO

ok but 1944 wasn't the middle of the war. What's your point?

I know this is your pet topic but you're my term "during the war means at a time when WWII was still going on as opposed to many decades later when it had already become history. Arguing about the exact time a portion of the war ended or not is irrelevant. And even then CH3CHO's point is that you are WRONG.

"OssanAmerica

That some 200,000 women were kidnapped by IJA troops is a fallacy as there exists no evidence anywhere, including US archives, to support this.

So here's a question for you then. If there were 5 million troops needing the service of a prostitute once a month, how many prostitutes would it take?"

Rather than asking a totally irrelevant question, how about evidence of this 200,000 kindnapped story? We already know where that 200,000 number as well as the "all kidnapped" story came from, an article in the Asahi newspaper in the early 1990s which has been proven false and the Asahi paper has admitted to it.

South Korea is not alone in seeking justice of the past. Comfort women isn't the only Japanese euphemism for the crimes that imperialism Japan army committed.

"zichiJune 1310:48 pm JST

@OssanAmerica

I know this is your pet topic but..

But with that you are mistaken to by myself. You are the one who has constantly on the topic of the comfort women, quoted time and time again, the US military interrogation document but only ever the parts which might lent support to your opinion, while ignoring the majority of the report."

There is nothing in the report that states or even suggests that the interrogated women were kidnapped, enslaved, perpetually raped. all the add-on charges that the CW crowd has thrown onto the issue. What am I ignoring in Report 49 that supports any of these allegations?

"I have ever claimed or supported that 200,000 Korean women were kidnapped but nonetheless not all were so willing nor informed that they would become prostitutes. The historians do vary widely on the numbers. I just try to understand how many it would take to service 5-6.5 million troops?"

"Historians" even SKorean ones do not vary on the numbers to the extent of 200,000. That figure came from a fabricated story published by the Asahi newspaper in the early 1990s, and the Asahi newspaper has admitted to it and apologized. Your question is totally irrelevant to the issue because it requires far too many assumptions to calculate, and even then may not reflect reality. Usually when a war is going on the main activity of soldiers is not visiting whorehouses.

Schopenhauer: "Isn't this an embarrassing matter to bring it up for Koreans themselves?"

Nope. Do you think the Armenians and the Jews should be embarrassed to talk about the genocidal massacres perpetrated against them by the Turks and the Germans? Japan is the perpetrator of this crime, and the shame rightly belongs to Japan. Stop trying to shame the victims into silence.

"zichiToday01:31 am JST@OssanAmerica

The comfort women events from 1932 to 1945 cannot be based on a single US military document, US Army Report 49 of the interrogation of 20 captured Korean prostitutes nor are we able to even verify the accuracy of the document since the women would not have spoken English, being both Korean, and as the document states of low education. Which questions were asked and in what language, who translated the answers into English?

Translation was carried out by the US Army Counter Intelligence Corp who were active across both sides of the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Men who spoke Japanese, Chinese and Korean were drafted and trained in San Francisco before deployment with the intelligence units in the Pacific Theater. Such men enabled us to win WWII on two fronts. Do you question the translations and documentations done by the USACIC after uncovering the holocaust death camps as well?

"But on face value the document states that when the women were recruited they did not know they would be military prostitutes."

That is the common conclusion for some, perhaps most Comfort Women, excluding those who were already prostitutes, reached by historians including some SKorean ones. No surprise there.

"The question of the number of the comfort is very relevant to the history of the events. If you state that the number can't be calculated then I also state then you are unable to just dismiss the figure of 200,000 women and there are other figures by historians putting the figure at 400,000."

There is only one historian putting a figure of over 400,000 and that is Prof Su Zhiliang but his figure is not considered realistic.

"When discussing the ethnic origin of the women, Kim Il Myon asserts that "80 to 90%" of all comfort women were Korean, for a total of 170,000 to 200,000 Korean comfort women. However, no statistics exist to back up any of these estimates. A careful reading of all available documents shows that many of the women were indeed from Korea, but probably not the overwhelming majority. After all, many of the women were Japanese."

http://www.awf.or.jp/e1/facts-07.html

In anycase SKorea and Japan reached a landmark agreement in 2015 to end this issue permanently. As far as I am aware Japan has carried out it's side of the bargain. The question now is whether SKorea, under this new President will.

Japanese comfort women or Korean women or Chinese women, or Filipino women, or Vietnamese women, they are all women and they are all victims. What is the point to distinguish one from the other?

All women are mothers, sisters, daughters, wives, they are all human, what is the point deny them of the justice?

Ossan good posts as always

try putting this in front of other peoples quotes to set them apart from yours

example

Only in Korea does "irreversibly resolved" mean "for a week" ... how much money do they want this time?

Personally, I would not have given into them until they admitted the Korea Government's and Koreans' - both male and female - own role in running the sex industry.

Many, of course, who went straight on to working for the Americans increasing the industry exponentially for them. The UN figure for the Korean War (1950) is around 1,000,000 women.

I don't read of anyone crying "every women was a victim" for them.

Why, if it was all so onerous, did they go on to service Americans and why, if it was such a shame on Korean society, did Koreans allow the industry to increase 5 times in size or more? It did. Post-War, the government was training, licensing and handing out awards to them. for bringing in foreign currency.

Including Japanese.

mulan

... "they are all victims"

Actually, they are not. And that's also part of the problem.

I, personally, would not give the Korea activists a second of my attention until they come up with

a) admit and provide a good estimate of the number of voluntary, professional or willingly opportunistic prostitutes involved ... in contract to the very small percentage of "forced or coerced" ones.

and,

b) a good estimates of the proportion who were actually "forced or coerced" by their own compatriots, e.g. Koreans sex industry forcing Korean women.

As far as I've read, in the latter, the figure is probably about 99%.

Therefore, these activists are actually blaming and demanding redress from activities carried out by other Koreans. It's like they are saying, "we blame the Japanese for making our business too good" ... (until the Americans came along and made it even better, at which point the actually government got into the game and carried on its involvement until at least the1970s).

The primary problem with their argument is that over-dramatize it exaggerating every case to be the very worst case, including the most famous cases - which turned out to be false accusations of Japanese for voluntary choices.

Ditto, the estimates against the Japanese assume that every Japanese soldier spent the war banging away every day. This is not only very highly unlikely, it goes against actually evidence we have from official war diaries, of leaders who condemned the practise as a disgrace and so on. We can also presume that a certain percentage of soldiers were actually faithful to their wives back at home.

Because of this and other example, the Korean, anti-Japanese activists have zero credibility. They have just usurped what was a feminist campaign for their own nationalist and chauvinist goals.

And, given the traditional Korean chauvinism and extensive use of prostitution, and involvement of the American military in industrializing the Asian sex industry and its abuses, it's beyond hypocritical for them to wage their campaign against Japan in the USA.

The Koreans have yet to apologize for what they did to women in Vietnam as cheap mercenaries for Uncle Sam.

This Comfort Women argument needs to stop. Japan has always and continues to cater to SKorea's demands with the goal of putting the issue to rest. SKorea on the other hand persists in backtracking on agreements. If this anti-Japan fever continues in SKorea, it will eventually lead to SKorea falling out of the current US-Jpn-SKorea strategic alliance. The US can not protect SKorea without support from Japan. If SKorea wants to cater to China, have us remove the THAAD system, we should terminate our defense agreement and withdraw all US troops and assets from SKorea.

"zichiJune 1510:07 pm JSTJapan has the option not to make any further comments, including the issue of statues nor make any further payments. Just consider the case closed."

Ridiculous. Failure to make an opposing position known is considered acceptance. And in this case acceptance of all the exaggerated false charges along with the facts, which are already accepted anyway. SKorea needs to make a real effort or join the China/NKorea alliance.

"Currently, Japan cannot enter South Korea to support the US but America does not need any Japanese support since there are more than 100,000 troops in South Korea and Japan."

Wrong. No one is talking about the US needing support, it's SKorea that needs US support which needs Japan's support. Japan is the largest US military presence in Asia and a hub for operations in the region. Without the support of Japan, US assets in Japan could not support operations on the Korean peninsula. This was true in 1950, true during the Vietnam War and true today.

"zichiToday01:58 am JST@OssanAmerica

Ridiculous. Failure to make an opposing position known is considered acceptance

Then according to your opinion the events of the Korean comfort women and others will never finally end and will continue for many more decades to come."

Correct. Unless SKorea decides to sincerely end this issue, any further so-called agreements to "permanently settle" this issue are pointless. Japan has and continues to  accommodate SKorea even disregarding the fact that the issue was settled in 1965. The Comfort Women issue is one of military prostitution and is a Women's Rights issue, but being used by SKorean activists as a political one. Unless the SKorean government decide to take back full control of their diplomatic relations with Japan, and by extension their relationship with the United States and the military alliance, it will go on ad infinitum and drastically affect SKorea on  a much larger scale.

Wrong. No one is talking about the US needing support, it's SKorea that needs US support which needs Japan's support. Japan is the largest US military presence in Asia and a hub for operations in the region. 

"No I am not wrong. Currently Japan can't enter South Korea or any other country to support or take part in any kind of military operation which would go against the constitution, if that is changed then we'll have a new story."

Yes you are wrong because ONE nobody is talking about Japan entering the Korean Penninsula, and TWO-even if we were, in the past Japan has carried out military actions under US supervision covertly during the Korean War. We are talking about the support and logistics that US Forces would require to carry out any large scale operation in defense of SKorea.

I would agree that Japan has to come out fighting on the WWII prostitution issue. Really whip up and p-off the Koreans and Korean supporters in the US, and finally defeat them.

It primary point of defence should be Korean complicity in the industry, and the Koreans' own chauvinism towards women and prostitution in general.

Unfortunately, Japan appears to suffer a cultural deficit in this corner. It's just not Japanese to whip up a stink, keep it going and beat others down with your complaining as it is typical of some Koreans. Doing things "the Japanese way" does not, to me, appear to be working in this area.

May be the J-Gov is wiser than me and knows better that whipping up Koreans into a finger-chopping, stomach-stabbing, pheasant-bashing, tearing-pigs-in-half frenzy - as they have done - is a bad strategy.

Perhaps they are right. However, I'd still be fighting my corner in the international realm if I was them.

One question; in Japan we know that there are various Korean interest groups with varying allegiances, some to South Korea, some to North Korea.

A large part of this debacle is being whipped up by "patriots" in the USA, Korean-Americans, and is part of a largely game being played within the "Asian-American" political realm.

What are their motivating factors?

I find them every bit as hyperbolically irrational and toxic as their Korean-Korean counterparts.

They are clearly on an agenda to damage Japan's standing and, perhaps, weaken America's support for Japane - for as long as they can. This is what makes me question whether they lean towards SK or NK, or are even being sponsored by China etc.

Or is it just a simple shakedown?

Pay me or I'll scream and scream and scream.

The historical facts show the biggest proportion of Korean comfort women were simply traditional Korean sex workers being recruited, hired and employed by Koreans, according to Korean habits.