Japan Today Get your ticket to GaijinPot Expo 2024
politics

S Korean lawmakers visit disputed islets as Japan tensions mount

59 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2019.

©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.

59 Comments
Login to comment

Like I stated in other posts, proof after proof that SK has no interest in fostering Korean-Japanese relationship, provoking only. Just sad, I hope SK will get a new, better and reliable government.

9 ( +25 / -16 )

Even if this islets were theirs, such visit made by their lawmakers will not help to improve relations with Japan.

4 ( +16 / -12 )

Forgot to mention that Maruyama Hodaka, the guy who said Japan should go to war with Russia to take back the Northern Territories, is now saying Japan should go to war with South Korea to take back "Takeshima".(https://imgur.com/a/MBJdsED).

This guy is a good example of why the constitution should not be amended. Unlike Germany, Japan never got denazified. You give these lunatics the power to wage war, and they will.

-1 ( +22 / -23 )

Of course both sides has the tendency to lose in this situation, but we should remember that SK depend on J-Investment a lot. If J-government decides to invest less in that country, thing will get worse in SK.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Another day, yet another childish display by South Korean nationalists.

Amd still, ignoramuses claim Japan is the 'aggressor' and instigator in that region.

Anyone with common sense can see that as South Korea has zero basis for any of their issues with being removed from the white list, they resort to harrassing Japan and engaging in petty boycotts and stirring up hatreds with comfort women and colonialism.

All this over being removed from a white list, in which Japan gave multiple years for South Korea to sit down and discuss. South Korea thought they could disrespect and bully Japan into submission, but this time Japan said enough is enough.

12 ( +28 / -16 )

Well, this is very bad that it’s escalating like this. The only thing else and I’ll say about this, is that the Japan of now is nothing, and I repeat, nothing, like it’s World War II self. Yes, it was very horrible what they did in World War II and with China before that, not saying otherwise at all. But to be quite frank, I’m really getting sick and tired of people using World War II to bash the Japan of now, as well as Germany for that matter. Because both the countries, to repeat myself, are NOT, their World War II predecessors. End. Of. Story.

5 ( +16 / -11 )

Nothing surprises me any more about the behaviour of Japan-hating South Korea. Another day, another anti-Japan outburst. This is an attempt to inflame an already terrible situation, that SK started. Every day they do this, SK economy will continue getting worse until there economy is in a Great Depression.

By the the way, Takeshima is inalienable Japanese territory.

5 ( +21 / -16 )

the Japan of now is nothing, and I repeat, nothing, like it’s World War II self. 

I have to half disagree. While the country is nothing like it was that time, Japanese people are still Japanese people. That has not changed. The underlying societal traits that resulted in WWII are still there now; subservience, obedience to authority, bullying of underlines etc.

The focus of the people was redirected into business, post WWII. But Japanese people are Japanese people. That has not changed.

-2 ( +16 / -18 )

South Korean politicians visit rocks off their coast, Japanese politicians visit Yashcuni and both take offence at each other's actions, neither being adult enough to back down. This is a dangerous spiral for the youth of both nations.

-1 ( +13 / -14 )

Ganbare Japan: "By the the way, Takeshima is inalienable Japanese territory."

Sorry, friend. If you honestly believe that, head on over and see what happens. They are called Dokdo, for starters, and are lived on and administered year-round by South Korea. It is their sovereign territory. They have every right to visit, as Japan does with the Senkakus and throws fish in the sea every once in a while. They were never officially Japanese islands -- the US gifted them to Japan in maps, hoping to have more colonial territory themselves to battle "The Red Menace" (Russia) and Japan has no right to them. Japan should just forget about it and move on... or wait... does that only apply when the shoe is on the other foot?

0 ( +22 / -22 )

There are no good actors here.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

It seems to me that one thing is very clear that they will not make relationships better whatever amid Japan and the US are angry about GSOMIA. They should not have done it.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

South Korea can't be in the list of trusted commercial partners, exactly because it has also still territorial disputes like this. Can you see China and Russia in the white list?! The presence of SK was actually an anomaly, probably just because the US had pushed Japan to favour SK. But honestly, it was very contradictory. Let SK show her true colours, the US should give up in forcing this alliance when they never did anything to erase anti-Japanese feelings in SK. It's useless trying to change that now, with the hugely improving relationships between China and SK, and China's overwhelming economic superiority in the region.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

IloveCoffee

Forgot to mention that Maruyama Hodaka, the guy who said Japan should go to war with Russia to take back the Northern Territories, is now saying Japan should go to war with South Korea to take back "Takeshima".(https://imgur.com/a/MBJdsED).

> This guy is a good example of why the constitution should not be amended. Unlike Germany, Japan never got denazified. You give these lunatics the power to wage war, and they will.

Spot On!

I've been saying that for 30 years... All these things stem from Japan not coming clean...

Every other year you have some "influential" politician come out spouting some new completely outrageous falsehood about WW2, like Nanking, Comfort women, or Forced Labor never happened... All that does is pour gasoline on what-ever right-wing advocates in China, Korea, ect...

These islands, if you look at a map, are much, much closer to Korea...

Japan has a much stronger case for getting the northern territories back from Russia...

Japan needs to pick their battles...

Yes, Korea does have plenty of nut-jobs running things, but certainly Japan isn't helping by their own actions..

0 ( +13 / -13 )

American and Japanese positions on Takeshima

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusk_documents

4 ( +8 / -4 )

@Old man_13

All this over being removed from a white list, in which Japan gave multiple years for South Korea to sit down and discuss.

Oh, no, it started with SK sending the list of companies without descriptions or record (only names) simultaneously SK Supreme Court ordering Mitsubishi to compensate wartime victims (who have been paid) and ruled that 1965 agreement with Japan and reparation paid would be disregarded. All these attacks from all angles possible are only done by SK, like you stated. Ignorant American groups are calling for condemning Japanese "aggression" and changing the name of Sea of Japan to "the east sea"(Korean name for SOJ.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

smithinjapan

They are called Dokdo, for starters, and are lived on and administered year-round by South Korea. It is their sovereign territory. 

So do you agree that Crimea is Russia’s sovereign territory, lived on and administered year-round by the Russians?

7 ( +12 / -5 )

They are called Dokdo, for starters, and are lived on and administered year-round by South Korea. It is their sovereign territory. 

If South Korea feels that way, then South Korea should accept the Japanese proposal to take the issue to the ICJ, as the Japanese have proposal on numerous occasions. As with the forced labor issue, South Korea refuses to take it to the ICJ. Why?

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Makes sense as Politicians get elected by people & populism is king these days.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So South Koreans call the islets Dokdo("Rock Island"), and the Japanese call them Takeshima("Bamboo Island"). From an etymological point of view and looking at the picture above I wonder which side's claim is more pursuasive than the other. Hmm...

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

So South Koreans call the islets Dokdo("Rock Island"), and the Japanese call them Takeshima("Bamboo Island"). From an etymological point of view and looking at the picture above I wonder which side's claim is more pursuasive than the other. Hmm...

Sigh. Not this argument again. Just because the official name is Takeshima ("bamboo island") does not mean literally there is bamboo on the island. There is no ice on Iceland. Greenland is not green.

Historical records prove Takeshima is Japanese. SK can take this issue to ICJ if they want to "prove" they own it.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

The pugnacious little South Korean terrier continues to yap and nip at Japan's heels. Meanwhile, costs for its occupation of two isolated rocks it calls Dokdo are bleeding that country's treasury of millions of dollars every year.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Regardless of ownership, these islands are occupied and administered by South Korea in the here and now. That gives ample rights for politicians from that nation to visit them. Those same people can also visit Japan. That doesn't mean they own Japan either. Just visiting is harmless and Japan should not raise to the bait. Be the bigger Country and ignore it for now.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

Regardless of ownership, these islands are occupied and administered by South Korea in the here and now. 

Peter@ do you realize that statement completely contradicts international law? Applying the same logic you would no doubt also approve of Russia's occupation and administration of the Crimean peninsula.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

I don't see why this would be controversial.

The Liancourt Rocks are open to all visitors, any one can visit it for a price of a ferry ticket, Japanese inclusive.

So the legislators had the right to visit the Liancourt Rocks like any other private citizens.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Every other year you have some "influential" politician come out spouting some new completely outrageous falsehood about WW2, like Nanking, Comfort women, or Forced Labor never happened... All that does is pour gasoline on what-ever right-wing advocates in China, Korea, ect...

Please list all the 'influential' Japanese politicians that have made offensive statements about the past, 'every other year' as you state (the implication being that this is a regular occurrence). People continue to make these false or exaggerated claims about Japan with absolutely zero basis in fact, such as claiming that all Japanese schools use textbooks that outright deny Japan's actions during World War 2. Some right wing nut job occasionally spouting off at the mouth is hardly an indictment of an entire nation, as every single nation in the world has those elements within their government. Japan is hardly unique.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Oh good grief are they still arguing about these rocks and the fish surrounding them?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

History issue aside, in which both sides' claims are quite contradicting to others', Dokdo/ Takeshima has been under Korean's control for a long while and it has a high chance of continuing to be like that. It's funny to actually witness lots of expatriates begin to develp kind of emotional bond with the countries they live in.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

hmmm..... it worries me that the two most crucial nations in this area are distancing themselves from each other.

For everyone in our region, from Japan to Australia, must start working together to try and balance the ever increasing and expanding influence and military presence of China.

There just isn't enough time to bicker with each other, WW2 was terrible for everyone, by its end, let's all stand together as one, so the 'see saw' of power doesn't suddenly stop at one end, leaving us all high and dry, and vulnerable.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Just organize a battle royal style beat down with the most vocal and fanatical 100 politicians from each side of this ridiculous divide and have a fight fest to the death. That way the whole region doesn’t go down with yaz and Korean people can then go back to driving Japanese cars, eating sushi and watching terrace house and anime while the Japanese youngsters can enjoy their yakiniku, estee, k pop and generic beauty tips from their Korean neighbors.

I’m sure Dr Evil would be more than willing to donate his island for the smack down. Pass the popcorn.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I can understand the northern territories but these really look just like rocks.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I can understand the northern territories but these really look just like rocks.

That's exactly what they are - rocks. Big rocks, but rocks.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Peter@ do you realize that statement completely contradicts international law? Applying the same logic you would no doubt also approve of Russia's occupation and administration of the Crimean peninsula.

Clearly you miss read my statement. At no time did I approve South Korea's claim of ownership, nor does it in any way contradict International law. While the islands ownership is in dispute, they are currently administered by South Korea. Senkaku are administered by Japan while their ownership is also in dispute.

As for Russia's theft of Crimea from the Ukraine, that is obviously illegal. Russia invaded Crimea and forcefully took ownership.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

oldman-13 - many influential politicians have uttered statements and / or publicly declared their opinions re Japanese history esp of the 20thC.

Most of Abe's cabinet members since the start of his govt are members of Nippon Kaigi, which by definition means they believe a certain far right wing ideological narrative. The actions and statements by some of these and other non-cabinet members is in no short supply. The PM & Vice PM - Abe & Aso and other ldp illuminaries such as Inada, Imamura etc are prominent in their positions in Nippon Kaigi. Nippon Kaigis stance on Takeshima (and other controversial things) is well known and reported.

Also politicians are members of other right wing associations incl for example the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform. The views expressed by such follow ideologies that are inconsistent with developing harmonious relations with neighbouring countries.

But you are correct in stating these leading politicians do not represent the opinions of millions of ordinary citizens, and as such, Japan a Country of Citizens, should not be attacked as beholden of the same views.

However, the issue of Takeshima is never going away as long as the 2 diametrically opposed views are continued to be held and expressed.

No Korean govt will commit political suicide and / or raise the ire of right wing crazies who may well resort to deadly violence, so no amount of posturing by Japanese politicians will solve the problem.

This is an observation, easily recognized, as I have no sway L or R in this.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

browny1,

Awesome post.

Absolutely spot on.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Russia invaded Crimea and forcefully took ownership.

S. Korea did exactly the same thing. The rocks were uninhabited before Korea arbitrarily chose to occupy them.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Nippon Kaigi or whatever, the reasons they visit Yasukuni are not for provoking neighboring countries

but these Korean law makers are purely landing the disputed Rocks only for provoking Japan and then appealing to domestic voters.

Do not equate Japan with this childish hysteric country in any way. Japan does not let activists to land on the disputed island at all.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

S. Korea did exactly the same thing. The rocks were uninhabited before Korea arbitrarily chose to occupy them.

Crimea has a large population an was invaded by the Russian Army. That is not the same as Engineers building a few structures on an uninhabited rock. Strange that you would think they are identical situations when such a large difference is apparent.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The Korean knee-jerk reaction to whatever Japanese has unfortunately become nothing but conditional reflex, which is, yes, disease artificially created. It is, however, one of wisdom, circuit-breakers indispensable for those poor people to survive and live their lives just like what you see in their history by protecting themselves from total-mental breakdowns. Look at their thousands of years of history and look at what’s going on right at this moment. Exactly same racial/ethnic people split away. They cannot solve it themselves nor make any sort of excuse nor hide fundamental losers’ contradiction. For those poor people, bashing Japan is the only temporary recipe .

 

It’s 100 times harder and tougher than, say, the stress you could feel when cannot insult Japan by posting all the nonsense to JT every day.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Ganbare said -

"...Historical records prove Takeshima is Japanese...."

Actually, a more accurate statement would be "Japanese historical records prove...."

The other side will of course say "Korean historical records prove..."

Both sides have records.

Showchinmo - do you not think that certain noted politicians in Japan visit Yasukuni or utter strong statements purely for their own sake???

And that they never do it for appealing to their base or striking a metaphorical blow to those with opposing opinions???

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Why not form a joint Japanese-South Korean business venture, one which develops the natural resources of the area cooperatively? They could even agree to jointly administer the miniscule amount of dry land involved.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

After all, it is nothing but revenge by Koreans who have waited for 74 years to become strong enough to say something to Japan, and yet not so much as to say to US, China, Russia.

You can cook 1965 Treaty as you like but you should realize it is against humanity to negate all the good-will and cooperation provided by Japan since then, intellectually, physically, technologically and financially.

And now you want to erase the term " Miracle of Han river" from text books.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Japan must in the futuer prevent any S K visits or it will definitely escalate to a military conflict.

It must fire a salvo and demand that SK do not put their foot on that island again.

Then if they try send the coast guard and the fighters to stop it.

Then we will know for sure what their intentions are.

The more Japoan waits the less power it has in preventing SK take over of the island.

Risk the battle now because this is allowed in Japan's constitution from foreign attack.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The next step is to recall most of Japanese industries and remove LOTTE and other SK companies from Japan.

Then if necessary boycott all SK products.

That is how "serious" this situation is.

And each action an step Japan takes must be broadcasted to the entire world by all media and direct UN (even if they have no enforcement power) to issue a desist order to SK. Japan must make ALL of its retaliatory actions legitimate and legal within the eyes of the world.

SK has been playing the media game, Japan MUST do better with "truth" and "facts" and not just make weak claims. Broadcast the fact through CNN, BBC, EN (EuroNews), etc. Invite them to the island and show what SK has been and is doing to "steal" that island, just as China has been doing in S China Sea (occupy and steal).

If SK is using it as a ruse to start a war, Japan has the right to defend its territory.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What would Hong Kong have been like if it had not been for 99 years of lease to British Empire. Could those young kids have felt the diff between free world and mainland so much as to go out on the street and join protests? I am not affirming what Brits have done to China but it is ironic that you cannot deny the simple fact those 99 years of colonization playing significant roles for the experience of present Hong Kongers, good or bad.

Ask those young Hong Kongers, probably their opinions about those 99 years would vary and different from unanimous Korean response about those 36 years.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

In any case... all these activties over the past 20 or so years has a rather uncomfortable vision of "conspiracy" behind it all. Each action by SK, NK, China and even Russia has been "aiming" at Japan from all angles, territorial (islands and fishing grounds) , economic (fairness), military (forcing scrables, fishing territory, etc) and even playing the past history (WWII), morailty (comfort women), and the religious (demanding stsues and monuments placed hundreds of year ago in Japan) and race game.

If this is really a retribution or revenge for WWII or for Japan supporting the Korean War after its defeat, then this is something that cannot be dismissed.

It certainly "appears" that all 3 wants and is instigating Japan to start a conflict which involves the military so that they can "jointly" invade Japan and get US involved in the conflict. That is something US cannot really get involved at this time. And there is NO nuclear option for the US in such a conflict. But for all others they have that option.

If such conflict were to start, Europe, Middle East and Africa will erupt since US cannot defend itself and fight abroad. The Southern border problem is not resolved and such a conflict opens the US to massive invasion.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The excuse given by some for this trip by the South Korean lawmakers is laughable. So because Takeshima is open to visitors it is non-controversial and hence this is an overreaction by Japan?

Funny thing is, those who say this are the first ones to hurl fury and venom whenever Japanese lawmakers visit Yasukuni shrine. Yasukuni is open to the public as well isn't it? Hypocrisy as always.

Anyhow, to the point made above about how Japan needs to do a better job of presenting its case to the public, I would agree in principle. However, such is the engrained anti-Japan attitudes around the world that no matter how persuasive or cohesive an argument Japan gives, it will automatically be dismissed without a seconds thought. This is how they have been able to build comfort women memorials in the United States, as well as have schools call the Sea of Japan the east sea.

It doesn't matter how right Japan is, people will immediately dismiss them: "How dare Japan remove South Korea from the white list, after all those decades of colonialism and comfort women, and 'never' apologizing or compensating them." "How dare Japan say or do anything 'bad" against their Asian neighbors after all they did." So on and so forth.

Things of that nature. The open minded people on this website that doesn't see Japan from a narrow minded viewpoint are unfortunately an outlier.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima.

But, there is another small island called 'bamboo island' (Jukdo 竹島 in Korean) at 2 km (1 mile) east of Ulleungdo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jukdo_(island)

You may see those abundant bamboos there: https://wayfaringflaneur.com/2018/09/02/jukdo%EC%A3%BD%EB%8F%84-bamboo-island/

Japanese government never mentions this real bamboo island (Jukdo in Korean) when they explain their territorial claim. They intentionally omit it, or obfuscate it with Ulleungdo. For example:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html

https://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/takeshima/page1we_000057.html

Long times ago, Japanese fishermen certainly recognized the existence of Jukdo 竹島 near Ulleungdo island. At that time, Takeshima did not designate the Liancourt Rocks, but Jukdo to Japanese fishermen. Both Jukdo and Ulleungdo are now Korean territories that Japan and the other countries acknowledge. Now the Japanese government claims the territorial right with a wrong name or a wrong location.

There are 7 Japanese islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) along the coast of Japan, and all of them have bamboo:  https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%AB%B9%E5%B3%B6 

But only one exception is the remotely-located Liancourt Rocks,called 'Dokdo' in Korean, which literally means a rock island.  It is a consistency problem. Koreans knew that it consisted of rocks, and therefore bamboo could not grow there. The so-called bamboo island without any bamboo was just an imaginary island for Japan to forcefully occupy Dokdo. Now they still shout "the bamboo island without any bamboo is a Japanese territory". What a farce!

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

But only one exception is the remotely-located Liancourt Rocks,called 'Dokdo' in Korean, which literally means a rock island.  It is a consistency problem. Koreans knew that it consisted of rocks, and therefore bamboo could not grow there. The so-called bamboo island without any bamboo was just an imaginary island for Japan to forcefully occupy Dokdo. 

@SJ: How do you make this stuff up??? The Chinese characters for Dokdo -- 独島-- have nothing to do with rocks. They mean "solitary island."

5 ( +8 / -3 )

SJSep. 1  11:16 pm JST

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima.

What's comical would be South Korea presenting that as an argument before the ICJ.

But of course SK has neither the honor, courage nor integrity to settle the dispute at the ICJ, as Japan has requested three times.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

So many posts say the rock islands were historically belonged to Japan. Back it up with facts! All the claims were recent fabrications while Koreans have more than thousand year old documented proofs. The rocks can be seen from Ulungdo with naked eyes but they cannot be seen from any Japanese island. Now Communist China claims the south china sea as their own because there was one line of the description in one of their obscure history book while the countries adjascent to the ocean lived there thousands of years. Get real both Chinese and Japanese.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

@SJ: How do you make this stuff up??? The Chinese characters for Dokdo -- 独島-- have nothing to do with rocks. They mean "solitary island."

It is funny to say that a distant rock island is wrong, meaning only distant, but no rock.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

B. MoonToday 02:23 pm JST

So many posts say the rock islands were historically belonged to Japan. Back it up with facts!

Japan is prepared to do just that, In fact they have been since 1952. But South Korea is not able to back their position up with facts, which is why they have refused to settle the issue before the ICJ three times.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

B.Moon - The rocks can be seen from Ulungdo with naked eyes but they cannot be seen from any Japanese island.

Do you know how useless that claim is?

Northern territories can be seen from Hokkaido, has Northern territories been given back to Japan?

Ceuta is located within the African continent, is Ceuta part of Africa?

Papua New Guinea is split, is the whole island independent? How about Timor Leste and East Timor? Malaysia and Singapore? Phu Quoc Island in Vietnam?

Don't you understand the real issue is that Syngman Rhee arbitrarily drew a line in 1952 after Japan had been disarmed while knowing that San Francisco Peace Treaty did not include Takeshima as part of ROK. June 1954, ROK Coast Guard took over the island and continued to kid nap and murdered fishermen until 1965. Why would you ever need to kidnap and murder civilians if in fact Takeshima is inherently part of ROK? We didn't even have SDF until July 1954, so in my mind, I can only consider this event as forceful annexation similarly to what happened in Crimea.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One irony Koreans don't realize is that their recent high-court verdict of negating 1965 treaty would give Japan a legitimate right to demand for an apology and compensation for capturing 328 ships and 3,929 fishermen (in which 44 were killed by Korean) between 1952 to 1965.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites