S Korea-Japan dispute puts military pact at stake

Who cares, they don't need South Korea and its "exceedingly exceptionally extravagantly lingering bitterness over what they consider Japan's lack of atonement over its past."

They barely share any intelligence with Japan. Just like I told that Basu guy, if necessary America would share intelligence Korea has the same way America would share intelligence Japan has especially in case of emergency.

Japan is developing powerful radars close to Korea to bypass S. Korea completely. They don't have a lot of leverage in current disputes and they want to use this as a ''countermeasure''.

PS

Koreans make it sound like Japan benefits from this and they don't. In fact you benefit more from our satellites/intelligence than the other way around. Fact

Definitely feel sorry for the South Korean population that doesn't agree with what he's doing to their country.

Hopefully they do something about it before it's too late. You'd think the corruption of the previous administration was the worst thing that they had to face...

This is why Japanese MoD began its obsession with the GSOMIA, and why they are still urging the US DoD to stop "crazy Koreans" from cutting them off from the radar feed even after Abe san began his trade war against Korea.

Do you guys even read the articles before commenting anymore? Sure doesn't sound like Japan is begging for anything.

"A senior Japanese official close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said Japan could probably live without the agreement because it has been utilized less than expected and that Tokyo can get information from Washington."

I bet that guy holding the sign couldn't even tell you what GSOMIA stands for.

Clearly South Korea is leaving the US camp. They can hug and kiss their Northern brothers and become subservient to the preamble to the DPRK constitution which declares the national goal of unifying the Korean Peninsula under the Kim regime's rule. Have fun Mr Moon. How long will it take for your desire to keep leading South Korea is answered by anti-aircraft shells? Definitely feel sorry for the South Korean population that doesn't agree with what he's doing to their country.

@Samit - Japan: "You South Koreans are a significant national security threat to us, and we are going to make it more difficult for you to import raw materials you need to manufacture your memory chips."

"However, please inform us if NK fires a missile at us or anything.. pretty please?"

That is the black comedy Japan is scripting at the moment, and too many people are failing to point out the absolute absurdity of the situation, choosing to remain poker-faced at the joke and pointing fingers at SK.

What's comedic is the handful of you who can't understand the difference between not being able to prevent sensitive materials from slipping through their fingers and the act of sharing radar data... They're kind of two different things.

@tanker - Sharing radar data with an untrustworthy country deemed a national security threat? What could go wrong there...?

You really don't understand what is going on here, do you. SK is being removed from the white list because SK cannot prevent sensitive materials from winding up in North Korean hands. South Korea admitted themselves that they have discovered violations.

Supplying radar data and intelligence is a completely different animal that has nothing to do with the former.

It really isn't that difficult.

Tensions erupted after Japan tightened export controls on key materials for South Korea's 

Hello? Tensions got a hell of a lot worse because of the court decision in SK to allow the seizure of Japanese corporation's assets to be sold off and the money used as compensation.

SK doesnt get off here, Japan has a right to protect it's trade interests, particularly with Moon snuggling up with Kim.

So, let me get the Korean argument straight:

They say that Japan needs South Korea to warn them of incoming missiles. And South Korea is talking about withholding that information, leading to possibly countless 1000s of deaths of innocent men, women and children in Japan. Over a trade disagreement.

And that's supposed to help their case?

A Stalemate, regardless of how long, is better than war. And watching NK through Kim Il Sung, KIm Jong IL, and now Kim Jong Un, I haven't seen the slightest "crack" in Kim's dam. Moon is giving up that stalemate in his dream of going down in history as the SK leader who united North and South. To do so he's wrecking the US-JPN-SK alliance, and at the end of the day he;s going to go down as the one who ruined South Korea. Both politically and economically.

It seems to me S Korea is using GSOMIA to get something as hostage against Japan and USA. This is another agreement. S Korea is such an incredible country that easily breaks any treaty, agreement, promise, etc when they don't like it any more. Hence S Korea is untrustworthy and should stay away from both SK and NK.

Well, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Why should anyone exchange information with someone who says it is unwanted and of little use? Why bother? :)

@ tanker - You reckon a guy staging a protest doesn't know what he's protesting against? I bet you he absolutely understands what GSOMIA is. As for knowing the exact wording of the abbreviation in English, 'General Security of Military Information Agreement' doesn't quite roll off the tongue and I bet even posters here have to look it up.

No, I figure he drew it off the stack of government supplied protest signs just like everyone else seems to do in South Korea. He's just there to collect a few won for spending the afternoon holding a protest sign.

"They say that Japan needs South Korea to warn them of incoming missiles. And South Korea is talking about withholding that information, leading to possibly countless 1000s of deaths of innocent men, women and children in Japan. Over a trade disagreement.

And that's supposed to help their case?"

That is Korean logic for you. If anything it helps Japan's case.

PM Abe has played this beautifully. He has bated South Korea into an overreaction. South Korea will scrap the GSOMIA pact, Washington will be pissed and side with Tokyo. As a result, Tokyo will have its victory. PM Abe has played the Koreans like a piano.

Noh Young-min, chief of staff to President Moon Jae-in, said Seoul will make a "comprehensive judgment based on national interest"

If this is the case then the framework is already doomed

The Koreans will always use WWII or Colonial Period as a argument to justify hatred towards Japan or the Japanese. I understand that Japan was and is not a perfect country, but regardless of what happened long ago between the 2 countries, Japan has made a strong effort to improve herself. Perhaps the old Japan was not correct, but the current one is a country that the world has great respect.

What happened in the past, today such thing is irrelevant. Since 1965 when the relation between 2 countries was reestablished Japan has invested in Korea in many areas. Base on this and other facts, I don't see reasons to complain and feed their boys and girls with anti-Japanese feelings.

 Moon is giving up that stalemate in his dream of going down in history as the SK leader who united North and South. To do so he's wrecking the US-JPN-SK alliance, and at the end of the day he;s going to go down as the one who ruined South Korea. Both politically and economically. (OssanAmerica)

Best assessment of the situation I've seen. Divide and conquer: Xi, Putin and Kim are manipulating Moon to wreck the US-JPN-SK alliance and in doing so, will make it easier to maneuver Moon into a peace treaty and unification under DRPK terms. That is, if he is in power long enough to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a military coup in the works to overthrow Moon and prevent that disastrous capitulation from happening.

@Halwick

I agree with your comment.

The world is baffled with the things that Moon says and does. They come as petty and not well thought out.

What's worse, is trying to figure out his motivation or the logic (there is none) for the things that he says and does.

He does come off as a weak and desperate leader and everybody knows that the chinese/russians love weak dumb leaders.

If I was from SK I would be ashamed to have him as the president.

Just like a bad relationship...its apparent whos moved on and who has not.

And South Korea is talking about withholding that information, leading to possibly countless 1000s of deaths of innocent men, women and children in Japan.

Well, countries don't share military secrets with hostile nations. Doing so would be an act of treason.

Well, Samit, you have really exposed yourself for who you are here. You really need to take a long look at yourself.

@ old man - You forget to mention Japan's extreme reluctance to acknowledge their recent history, except choosing to glorify their warmongering past and keeping their youth blissfully ignorant of its past.

Right, because correctly stating that the 1965 normalization treaty with South Korea settled all matters in regards to compensation for colonial laborers, is somehow 'glorifying' their war mongering past.

As typical with the anti-Japan crowd, endlessly continue to slander all Japanese citizens with accusations of glorifying their war mongering past and keeping their youth ignorant of its past, without a shred of evidence. The Japanese government has done nothing of the sort in regards to this recent temper tantrum by the South Korean government. The fact that a few lunatics threatened arson against a comfort woman display in Japan, is hardly 'proof' that all Japanese think the same. By the way, the majority of schools in Japan do not use the controversial history textbook that minimizes Japan's actions before and during WW2, as compared to South Korea and China that teach nothing but hatred towards all things Japan.

The Japanese government has been more than professional, rational, and mature throughout this trade issue with South Korea. Moon and his cronies continually stirred up racial hatred against all things Japan, crying to the media about how they were 'wronged', when in fact they were clearly in violation of lax export controls. I didn't see the Japanese government in turn stirring up racial hatred against Koreans, or glorifying their war past, or exhorting their citizens to boycott Korean products or march in the streets en masse to protest against Korea. In fact many Japanese citizens continue to eagerly consume Korean food and purchase Korean products.

Why are the Koreans threatening to scrap this deal?

Scrapping the deal doesn't make sense at all. Its a mutual beneficial agreement to share information with the emphasis on mutual meaning that both sides get an advantage.

Do they really think they can get concessions from Tokyo? Does SK actually know what it wants?

It seems that SK is knee-jerking everything without planning or rationale.

One thing is for certain the Chinese/Russians/NK are loving the divide and conquer.

*the US cannot share with Japan what it received from Korea, either from Korean radars or its own radars** due to the nature of the GSOMIA. To do so, there must be a GSOMIA between Korea and Japan.*

It seems Japan would have to develop its own missile radar system if no more GSOMIA. Japan has radar technology, satellite, and rockets, so it can make its own military radar system with US cooperation, but not soon. N Korea is playing nice fireworks lately, but it will never drop any missiles in Japan's soil. Kim knows N Korea will not get any money and economy help from Japan in the future if it dropped in Japan.

Korea is cutting off their nose to spite their face. They don't want to admit how bad Moon has messed up this entire situation, taking the two countries from a place of good-faith agreement on a path forward forever, to a complete and utter mess where the countries are decoupling, which will end up causing hardship to everyone in both countries to some degree.

And rather than admit just how poorly Moon has handled this situation, they are doubling down and making it worse. They would rather take the hit to their economy, stability, and security, than admit they screwed up, and try to find a solution to move forward.

Japan needs to do what it is doing - remain neutral in speech, take the necessary actions to protect Japan, and insulate itself from the Korean madness.

At this rate the Koreas will re-unify. Under North Korea. After all of his administrations monumental missteps, that one would be a logical conclusion. Better than taking the hit to the national ego by admitting they've messed this up.

You've slammed your neighbor with your intention to purposely hit their economy on the basis of national security concern and your neighbor is saying "fine - no more military information exchange with someone who thinks I am enabling a threat"

Which has been kept slamming the neighbor since 1965 Treaty, Asian Women Fund, 2015 Agreement and series of apologies through all those periods? Even PM of Malaysia saying "One apology is just enough. Treat Past as Past"

https://mainichi.jp/articles/20190807/k00/00m/030/318000c

So What exactly does SK want to do with NK and with US camp?

Stop your traditional universal flirt once in a while and make up your mind.

People have choice between being stuck on the past or move on. When you decide to move on, things like history will be treated as insignificant since your decision is focusing on progression and development.

And watching NK through Kim Il Sung, KIm Jong IL, and now Kim Jong Un, I haven't seen the slightest "crack" in Kim's dam.

Exactly. Nothings worked so far, why not try something different? Like Trump is doing, and now Moon.

To do so he's wrecking the US-JPN-SK alliance,

You say this with so much doom. I don’t see it.

"If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future"

　Winston Churchill

This is so hilarious. The Japanese say they have trust issues with South Korea. Then why trust South Korea's military information? For who knows, the information could be false. What hypocrites!

You've slammed your neighbor with your intention to purposely hit their economy on the basis of national security concern and your neighbor is saying "fine - no more military information exchange with someone who thinks I am enabling a threat"

This is the simplest form of a tit for tat tactic (not saying it's right or wrong) - why is this so hard to grasp? I don't think SK should break out of this agreement but I am sure anyone with a pea sized brain would understand why it's even on the table given the recent events?

@Christian Weber - Well said. As to why many people fail to understand this, it's bias which blinds people to the obvious.

"They say that Japan needs South Korea to warn them of incoming missiles. And South Korea is talking about withholding that information, leading to possibly countless 1000s of deaths of innocent men, women and children in Japan. Over a trade disagreement.

And that's supposed to help their case?"

@alwaysspeaking**** - By your logic, Japan would be the one leading them to their deaths by treating an ally as a grave national security threat.

It's very simiple. Don't implement policy changes alleging your ally is a national security risk, if you want to continue to share intelligence data from them.

PM Abe has played this beautifully. He has bated South Korea into an overreaction. South Korea will scrap the GSOMIA pact, Washington will be pissed and side with Tokyo. As a result, Tokyo will have its victory. PM Abe has played the Koreans like a piano.

You mean IF South Korea scraps the pact, and IF Trump gives two hoots, PERHAPS Tokyo can do a little victory dance like a child whose teacher took her side in a playground quarrel? You have my congratulations in advance.

I understand that Japan was and is not a perfect country

@Mitsu - Wow. Neither was Nazi Germany. They were not perfect.

but regardless of what happened long ago between the 2 countries, Japan has made a strong effort to improve herself.

But still can't stop denying, downplaying, whitewashing history at every opportunity. Most recently by the mayor of a prominent Japanese city, a few days ago. Can't stop paying respects at the shrine of mass murderers and war criminals either.

Perhaps the old Japan was not correct, but the current one is a country that the world has great respect.

Whatever respect Japan has had in the past, is greatly being diminished since Abe came into power.

Clearly South Korea is leaving the US camp.

Maybe, but it’s now a 60+ year stalemate. One guess, Kim Un opens up a little to SK meanwhile a few cracks emerge in Kim’s dam. These cracks get bigger and bigger as time goes on. Could be a 10 to 30 year plan but anything is better War.

@commanteer

And South Korea is talking about withholding that information, leading to possibly countless 1000s of deaths of innocent men, women and children in Japan.

Well, countries don't share military secrets with hostile nations. Doing so would be an act of treason.

Suppose Japan detected US SLBMs launched from the Pacific Ocean heading toward China, will Japan warn China about incoming US SLBMs? Of course not.

@Christian Weber

why is this so hard to grasp?

Because a lot of posters here are Japanese? It is their homes now exposed to incoming North Korean ballistic missiles, probably nuclear, due to lack of early warning?

@kwatt

It seems to me S Korea is using GSOMIA to get something as hostage against Japan and USA.

Just Japan. The US still gets its early warning in real time as before. However, the US cannot share with Japan what it received from Korea, either from Korean radars or its own radars due to the nature of the GSOMIA. To do so, there must be a GSOMIA between Korea and Japan.

Japan only want to keep the agreement because it secures Japan a foothold on the Korean peninsula in terms of intelligence. Japan wants to be recognized as an equal part as South Korea in dealing with North Korea, but will likely find that difficult if the GSOMIA is scrapped.

If South Korea should probably scrap the deal if they find scrapping it advantegous. But, Japan will never accept a scenario where South Korea is seen as the forerunner in dealing with North Korea. Japan wants a piece of that North Korean-cake if we understand Abe Shinzo and Nippon Kaigi. Abe wants to maintain Japanese influence on the peninsula.

What's comedic is the handful of you who can't understand the difference between not being able to prevent sensitive materials from slipping through their fingers and the act of sharing radar data... They're kind of two different things.

@tanker - Sharing radar data with an untrustworthy country deemed a national security threat? What could go wrong there...?

SK doesnt get off here, Japan has a right to protect it's trade interests, particularly with Moon snuggling up with Kim.

@Yubaru - SK being friendly with NK would be sending shivers down Japan's spine. They would much rather see SK and NK threaten each other than their leaders shaking hands. Japan needs NK as the boogeyman, as a justification to militarisation and scrapping of Article 9 in its constitution, not to mention the economic synergistic effect of a SK-NK union would see Japan in a disadvantageous position.

You've slammed your neighbor with your intention to purposely hit their economy on the basis of national security concern and your neighbor is saying "fine - no more military information exchange with someone who thinks I am enabling a threat"

This is the simplest form of a tit for tat tactic (not saying it's right or wrong) - why is this so hard to grasp? I don't think SK should break out of this agreement but I am sure anyone with a pea sized brain would understand why it's even on the table given the recent events?

Do you guys even read the articles before commenting anymore? Sure doesn't sound like Japan is begging for anything.

"A senior Japanese official close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said Japan could probably live without the agreement because it has been utilized less than expected and that Tokyo can get information from Washington."

Ha ha. That's called "bluffing" in my part of town. :)

This is why Japanese MoD began its obsession with the GSOMIA, and why they are still urging the US DoD to stop "crazy Koreans" from cutting them off from the radar feed even after Abe san began his trade war against Korea.

@Samit - Japan: "You South Koreans are a significant national security threat to us, and we are going to make it more difficult for you to import raw materials you need to manufacture your memory chips."

"However, please inform us if NK fires a missile at us or anything.. pretty please?"

That is the black comedy Japan is scripting at the moment, and too many people are failing to point out the absolute absurdity of the situation, choosing to remain poker-faced at the joke and pointing fingers at SK.

If South Korea should probably scrap the deal if they find scrapping it advantegous. But, Japan will never accept a scenario where South Korea is seen as the forerunner in dealing with North Korea. Japan wants a piece of that North Korean-cake if we understand Abe Shinzo and Nippon Kaigi. Abe wants to maintain Japanese influence on the peninsula.

@Strikebreaker - Shinzo wants a bigger role in dealing with NK, as his pride was hurt when SK-NK and USA-NK meetings made headlines while he was on the sidelines.

The recent export restriction was in order to show he still mattered, but it is beginning to backfire on Japan with SK tech companies making deals with non-Japanese suppliers, Japanese resort towns seeing huge drop in tourist numbers from SK, and Japanese businesses in SK accumulating unwanted stock they can't move even at a huge discount.

Abe will be shown up for what he is, a loud mouthed buffoon who thumped his chest only to end up with his tail between his legs.

Who cares, they don't need South Korea and its "exceedingly exceptionally extravagantly lingering bitterness over what they consider Japan's lack of atonement over its past."

@ old man - You forget to mention Japan's extreme reluctance to acknowledge their recent history, except choosing to glorify their warmongering past and keeping their youth blissfully ignorant of its past.

I bet that guy holding the sign couldn't even tell you what GSOMIA stands for.

@ tanker - You reckon a guy staging a protest doesn't know what he's protesting against? I bet you he absolutely understands what GSOMIA is. As for knowing the exact wording of the abbreviation in English, 'General Security of Military Information Agreement' doesn't quite roll off the tongue and I bet even posters here have to look it up.

Well, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Why should anyone exchange information with someone who says it is unwanted and of little use? Why bother? :)

@indier99 - Well said. If Japan truly regards SK as a national security threat rather than a military ally, they should be binning the GSOMIA. But as usual the moron Abe and his gutless minions don't have the mettle.

For those hoping for Japan based radars to replace early warning from Korea, this is the cold hard truth; sometimes even the Korean Aegis destroyers operating near North Korea fail to detect North Korean missile launches. To get a reliable launch detection and tracking, one needs to place very powerful radars near North Korea launch sites, which isn't available for Japan.

This is why Japanese MoD began its obsession with the GSOMIA, and why they are still urging the US DoD to stop "crazy Koreans" from cutting them off from the radar feed even after Abe san began his trade war against Korea.

http://alert5.com/2019/05/14/south-koreas-aegis-warships-failed-to-track-recent-n-korean-ballistic-missile-launches/

South Korea’s AEGIS warships failed to track recent N. Korean ballistic missile launches

South Korea’s EDaily says the recent ballistic missile firings conducted by Pyongyang were not detected by the country’s AEGIS warships and Peace Eye AEW platform.

Only Green Pine radar successfully tracked the missiles. The report says the military is analyzing why the AEGIS system failed to detect them.

Another day, another missile launch toward Japan.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/north-korea-fires-two-projectiles-into-sea-off-eastern-coast-yonhap-idUSKCN1UZ2EK

North Korea fires two projectiles into sea off eastern coast: South Korea

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea fired two unidentified projectiles into the sea off its eastern coast on Saturday, South Korea’s military said.

After the GSOMIA is terminated, Japanese MoD gets to learn about NK missile launches toward Japan from CNN.

@oldman_13

Who cares

The Japanese MoD cares, because Japan depends on radar feed from Korea to track NK missiles at extended range.

How this works is that early warning allows Japanese radars to focus the beam and double the detection range because they know where to look for the target, while the traditional sweep type scanning reduces the detection range.

This is why Japan is asking the US help in keeping the GSOMIA while the Koreans are eager to terminate it.

@AlexBecu

Japan is developing powerful radars close to Korea to bypass S. Korea completely.

Aegis radar has been tested from Japan's side and was shown to be unable to track in past NK missile launches. This is when Japan became obsessed with the GSOMIA.