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Sino-Japanese War still stings China 120 years later

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Emperor Xi is redirecting the attention of the young and savy Internet-age Chinese away from the wrongs and omnipresence of the CCP to an external bogeyman. The CCP is fearful to be overthrown in its present form by the young and knowledgeable Chinese so Japan is the perfect bogeyman to turn the energy into hatred towards this former colonizer.

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I see many folks here are poorly informed about east asian history in the last 200 years. Instead some readers make their opinions as the real history and distort facts. Its a big joke.

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tokyodoumoAug. 09, 2014 - 02:23AM JST Massacres in Chinese cities especially Nanking will not be forgotten any time soon just as many if not all Japanese will never forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

The massacre in Tiananmen Square happened less than 30 years ago and the Communist have forgotten about them already, why can't they forget about what happened 70 years ago?

Hell, Mao thanked and forgave the Japanese for what helped.

“When Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka visited Beijing in 1972 to restore Japan’s relations with China, a country that had been devastated by Japanese military aggression in the 1930s and ’40s, his host Mao Zedong allowed himself a moment of levity. Responding to Tanaka’s apology for what Japan had done during the war, Mao answered that there was absolutely no need to apologize. After all, he said, without the Japanese invasion, the Communist revolution would never have succeeded.”

Mao forgave Japan a long time ago, but the new ruler, Emperor Xi is milking this issue to take whatever he can.

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China,

Get it over that.

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the ruling Communist Party—which espouses nationalism in its claim to a right to rule—reinforces a narrative of historical victimisation

Yep. That is about right.

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Seems like everybody's strategy is to claim as much territory as possible then each will end up with a little bit.

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@tokyodoumo so you admit these are both events in the past, and the reaction should be the same, huh? Well then might I be suggest the appropriate reaction is: nothing.

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Massacres in Chinese cities especially Nanking will not be forgotten any time soon just as many if not all Japanese will never forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

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The reason the memory stings so badly is that at that time the Qing dynasty was suppose to have the most powerful navy in the region and Japan was seen as nothing more than a tiny state. But, the reality was that the Qing Dynasty was a joke. It's forces were undisciplined and it's leadership was inept.

When war broke out, Japan's small well disciplined navy took apart the mighty Beiyang Fleet apart faster than the French ever thought they could. That is what stings.

If the Qing dynasty had won the war it would have survived a bit longer and upstart leaders would have been kept at bay.

Wait a second.......

Could it be that the Communist in China are trying to keep the stinging feeling in the rear of the people? But, why would they?

Could it be that the Communist want the people angry at Japan because that way the people's anger wouldn't be pointed at them?

How many Communist rule China? About 180,000,000.

What is the population of China? 1,300,000,000....

This means the Communist are outnumbered almost 7 to 1!

Hell, if I was in the minority as the Communist are I too would try and keep the Chinese people angry at Japan!

But, the Communist can only keep fooling the people for so long, all it takes is a spark and bingo, no more Communist leadership in China!

What will follow? Something better than what is there!

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And it still stings Japan 120 years later, as many Japanese companies, including Toyota, Nissan and Honda, have suffered big sales drops in China...

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The cultural revolution saw the extermination of whole tribal groups of Chinese by their own rulers and then ofcourse there is North Korea that only continues to exist with Chinese support, its easy to be selective about the past and present especially in a one party authoritarian nation that is appeased now by the west for economic reasons in exactly the same way Nazi Germany was in the 1930s ..

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Germany admitted and dealt with its Nazi war past, something which Japan could learn from when dealing with its war past.

"Typical Korean favorite rhetoric when criticizing Japan. Koreans don't care about the facts that German doesn't want to be dragged in Japan-bashing, and that German and Japan are in good relation, and that German don't like Koreans the most."

Typical Japanese tactic of detracting from the point with irrelevancies and a self-delusion of victimhood. Korea haters in Japan are always claiming Korea is "the most hated nation" in the world. Yeah, whatever -- but that doesn't change the fact that Germany enjoys good press now because Germany came clean and admitted its wrongdoings Korea also manned up and admitted its wrongdoings in Vietnam, whereas Japan not only continues to deny its own wrongdoings, but continues to lie about Korea's coming clean about Vietnam. Give us all a break, Japan.

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So to sum it up...China is just like the radical Islamist.....drag up issues not even remotely connected to them this day and age to use as a pretext, lame excuse, false reason, just to start a war and or kill people. Toshiko did a great posting on history of China and Japan's 'military' engagements. China...you attacked and invaded Japan twice!! Remember?!! That's history but using President Xi's Administration's excuse of bringing up history to make it relevant to present day. As we say in America...'if the shoe fits!!'

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"I disagree. The balance of power dynamics did not change until Japan won the Russian-Japanese war in 1905. Sure, in the Sino-Japanese War in 1894-95. Japan defeated China, and received Taiwan, but was forced by Russia, France and Germany to return other territories. The so called Triple Intervention caused the Japanese army and navy to intensify their rearmament. The Russian-Japanese War in 1904-05, the Japanese army won this war gaining territory and control of the region and finally some international respect."

OK, think what you want, but I'd say balance-of-power was the name of the game in East Asia for good after 1895. Any semblance of China as regional hegemon was completely destroyed, leaving in its place a multipolar competition among Japan, Russia, the USA, and Western European powers. All these countries played a role in suppressing the Boxer Rebellion in China, with Japan contributing the largest contingent of foreign soldiers. So certainly Japan commanded enough respect to be part of an alliance of strong states preventing the loss of Chinese concessions.

And remember, Japan didn't get everything it wanted after the Russo-Japanese War either--the USA mediated the peace and forced Japan to accept control of only the southern half of Sakhalin Island rather than the whole thing. News of this concession led to riots by angry people in Tokyo. Not as devastating a concession as the Triple Intervention had been a decade earlier, but clear evidence that other powers with interests in East Asia were determined to contain Japan.

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globallcAug. 06, 2014 - 01:58PM JST

By the same token, the frequent headline news and the nasty comments on the topic here clearly reflect it is still stings >Japan 120 years later. One can never figure out the mentality of the Japanese politicians. For descendants of war criminals, the logical step >is to stay low key instead of boasting or acting to attract world attention year after year. How weird!

No it is China's hostile attitude and behavior, in contradiction to the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship that they signed in 1972 and even reaffirmed in 1978, and AFTER they reaped all the benefits of Japanese assistance and investment to improve their economic status, that stings Japan. As for "descendants" of war criminals, since when are descendants of criminals guilty for their ancestor's actions?

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By the same token, the frequent headline news and the nasty comments on the topic here clearly reflect it is still stings Japan 120 years later.

One can never figure out the mentality of the Japanese politicians. For descendants of war criminals, the logical step is to stay low key instead of boasting or acting to attract world attention year after year. How weird!

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MASSWIPE Aug. 05, 2014 - 10:01PM JST Its victory in the 1895 Sino-Japanese War destroyed and overturned a China-led international order in East Asia that had prevailed for 500 years dating to the early Ming Dynasty period. Balance-of-power dynamics have prevailed in the region ever since,

I disagree. The balance of power dynamics did not change until Japan won the Russian-Japanese war in 1905. Sure, in the Sino-Japanese War in 1894-95. Japan defeated China, and received Taiwan, but was forced by Russia, France and Germany to return other territories. The so called Triple Intervention caused the Japanese army and navy to intensify their rearmament. The Russian-Japanese War in 1904-05, the Japanese army won this war gaining territory and control of the region and finally some international respect. Japan further increased her influence on Korea and annexed her completely in 1910. In Japan, the war successes caused nationalism to increase even more, and other Asian nations also started to develop national self confidence.

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MASSWIPEAug. 05, 2014 - 10:01PM JST Basically, a truly China-led regional order in East Asia in an impossibility so long as Japan is united and determined to >play a proactive role overseas rather than retreating into a shell. Japan is simply too big economically to >become "China's Canada" despite a population ratio similar to that between the USA and Canada.

Adding to that is the fact that as a G7 country Japan has the support of most of the developed world behind them. In contrast, China being a communist dictatorship has no allies to speak of. Unless you want to count NK.

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Wait a minute. What are we talking about here? Didn't China win in WW2 as one of the Allied Powers? And Japan gave back to China all the occupied territories, Shanghai, Manchuria, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc? Also later they became one of the 5 permanent members of the UN security council. Even Japan now wants to be part of that but having a real difficult time getting in. I think this 1895 war thing is over analyzed and seems a bit irrelevant.

Yes, these are good points. But I'd say the 1894-95 war is relatively under-analyzed (at least in English) and not at all irrelevant. Although Japan's later strategy of imperial expansion would eventually crash and burn like nothing seen before, its victory in the 1895 Sino-Japanese War destroyed and overturned a China-led international order in East Asia that had prevailed for 500 years dating to the early Ming Dynasty period. Balance-of-power dynamics have prevailed in the region ever since, but now China appears to be tiring of the status quo--just as Japan got tired of the status quo in the early 1930s and embarked on an ultimately failed campaign to achieve regional hegemony.

One thing to realize about the China-led Sinocentric order which prevailed for half a millennium--it was dependent on Japan's being kept largely out of the picture, either through constant domestic turmoil and civil conflict (which plagued Japan for 200 plus years from the 14th through the 16th centuries) or self-imposed hermetic isolation and therefore refusal to kowtow to China as other states in the region did (this was Japan's preference from the early 17th century until the mid-19th century under Tokugawa).

Basically, a truly China-led regional order in East Asia in an impossibility so long as Japan is united and determined to play a proactive role overseas rather than retreating into a shell. Japan is simply too big economically to become "China's Canada" despite a population ratio similar to that between the USA and Canada.

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decibelAug. 05, 2014 - 01:22PM JST Wait a minute. What are we talking about here? Didn't China win in WW2 as one of the Allied Powers? And Japan gave back to China all the occupied territories, Shanghai, Manchuria, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc?

No, the "China" that was a WWII Allied Victor was the REPUBLIC OF CHINA (ROC), which, after fighting the Japanese was backstabbed by the Communists who took over the mainland in 1948 (3 years after WWII ended) and established THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA(PRC), forcing the ROC to the island of Taiwan.

Also later they became one of the 5 permanent members of the UN security council. Even Japan now wants to be part >of that but having a real difficult time getting in. I think this 1895 war thing is over analyzed and seems a bit irrelevant.

It was the ROC which had a seat on the PUNSC. The PRC simply took it over in 1971.

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True strength of a nation and a people comes from inner quality, not externally projected power. China was a very important historic culture and all of the Asian nations and cultures derived great assets from it. They all acknowledge this heritage, and If China would calm down and act as a good neighbor and an equal instead of trying to lord it over everyone things could be much better.

Sadly China is showing all of the signs of a short sighted bully who wants overt power instead of working on internal quality. Japan has taken the high road off and on for the past 100 years and was working for and still is working for the Asian people at large standing up to the western anglo nations and proving that Asian people can be the equals of any, in all ways. I am proud of Japan but rather tired of China..and hoping it will grow u p eventually.

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Wait a minute. What are we talking about here? Didn't China win in WW2 as one of the Allied Powers? And Japan gave back to China all the occupied territories, Shanghai, Manchuria, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc? Also later they became one of the 5 permanent members of the UN security council. Even Japan now wants to be part of that but having a real difficult time getting in. I think this 1895 war thing is over analyzed and seems a bit irrelevant.

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@cierzo98,

You KNOW NOTHING about China. You just want to understand China base on your own opinions.

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@mgglife

If China were really a "great nation" and a developed one as you suggest, China would stop living in the past and harping on about revenge for centuries-old humiliation that no one else is interested in. China humiliated itself by being unprepared for the obivious. A once powerful country with capability to be prepared simply wasn't because of bad rule and complacency. It's time to stop crying about being a victim (it's embarrassing to listen to) get over it and enter the modern world, behaving like a responsible nation without this attitude of "revenge will be ours"..

When countries go on and on and on about past deeds of some ancient enemy it shows their lack of political and social development. Germany is not still seeking opportunity for revenge for beiing defeated by Allies during two world wars - they are holding their heads up and playing a very active part in world politics. And Germany is light years ahead of China in its international image as a result. They surpassed other nations by honest hard work, lack of corrpution and by not stamping out scientific and industrial know-how.

No one - no one at all, is responsible for their 'ancestors' actions therefore why should they be the subject of revenge? Your ancestors from a couple of centuies ago might even have been spys for the other side for all you know. What's the point of all this backward-looking nonsense. It is either the sign of a nation which is trying to cover its inferiority complex by rabbiting on about how strong it now is, or one that has been brainwashed by corrupt leadership - or both. It certainly isn't a sign of being fit to enter the international political arena. Time to grow up and stop irritating other peaceful nations.

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tokyodoumoAug. 05, 2014 - 02:12AM JST Japan's aggression was not provoked... it was purely based on Japanese believing they were a superior race

Oh you mean acting exactly like White folk?

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We know China is 4.5 times of US and is 14 times of Japan in terms of population. It is a huge consumers' market. The Koreans are currently reaping in all those economical benefits.

The size of the Chinese market doesn't matter as much as everyone makes it out to be. China is already experiencing a decline and will not be able to sustain its consumption levels. If there are only 200 million people with any sort of affluence and the rest are dirt poor, then what makes China unique from Africa or Latin America in that respect? You see throngs of Chinese immigrants in all the developed countries around the world, and that flood shows no sign of stopping. Perhaps those that have lived under the "miracle" know better and are voting with their feet as to whether the Chinese miracle will last or not.

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If China is ever humiliated again, then small nations like ours are doomed once again!

Two questions. Why would what happens to Singapore have anything to do with what happens to China or visa versa? As you yourself have said, Japan is not a threat anymore.

Second question. You say that China has to avoid further humiliation or what? China has to act like a country that is 93rd in GDP per capita? Keeping your population in line is NOT a valid excuse for starting wars.

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@tinawatanabeAUG. 05, 2014 - 03:50AM JST Toshiko, you live in USA for a long time and see things from USA. I've never met any Japanese who justify A bombs. It hurt Japanese people's feelings. Nothing will hurt more. Don't you know Japan wanted to end the war much earlier than that?Japan asked Russia to mediate bet Japan and US?

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They are younger than I am. And Japanese people of my age do not troll JapanToday and they are still not familiar with free speech. They knew how to obey govt decision, though, if they are still alive.

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On Liugong island, a hilly anchorage off the eastern city of Weihai and the former home of the Beiyang fleet, the pictures, documents and weapons in a museum dedicated to the conflict blame not only Japan’s “war of aggression” but also China’s weakness, corruption and backwardness at the time.

Sounds like China's version of Yasakuni.

Japan is a liberal democracy with a free media,

LOL.

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For two countries that so distrust each other, they sure do a lot of business together. For Japan, exports to China are a key source of growth, but the relationship is hardly a one-way street. China imports substantial from Japan, and many of those goods are indispensable to China’s economic advance. Yet the tensions are inflicting an economic toll, even as their economies become ever more fused together. The challenge facing China and Japan is how to set aside or resolve their territorial dispute and create a more favorable environment for the trade and investment both sides need for their economic futures.

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Got the 50-centers on this thread big time. I will just say: as least some are honest that their true goal is the complete annihilation of Japan. No overtures of peace will work with a country like China. It is better to prepare with F-35s and Ospreys as you suggested highball7. The world knows which side is worth supporting and it ain't the Chicoms. Better be prepared to lose Peking, Shanghai, anything else you value in your mad quest for revenge.

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Toshiko, you live in USA for a long time and see things from USA. I've never met any Japanese who justify A bombs. It hurt Japanese people's feelings. Nothing will hurt more. Don't you know Japan wanted to end the war much earlier than that?Japan asked Russia to mediate bet Japan and US?

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@nigelboy- if nothing has changed, why does Japan continue to pretend to be worried? Let's see if things changed 10 years from now. If China is ineffective, then they have themselves to blame. Whatever the future may be, it is their right to be vigilant and be stronger as a nation. If China is ever humiliated again, then small nations like ours are doomed once again! PM Lee of Singapore calls for Japan to face up to history, but he is merely wasting his breath! See how the Germans face their history 100 years ago! Singapore has a beautiful lawn war memorial at Kranji, but never ever a Japanese leader visit and lay a wreath! But Singapore is so small and rather dependent on Japan for trade. So they just suffer their humiliation quietly. China need not behave like Singapore.

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At the moment Japanese military hardware is far superior.

So, nothing changed since Japan defeated them as a result of superior hardware.

Sheer numbers alone, China has always dominated. But when $hit hits the fan, what these 2 plus million PLA personnel will be too busy trying to control their own civilian population as opposed to fighting the opposition.

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China has been so weak for over a century that they were unable to admit their humiliation. Now they are feeling strong enough to admit their humiliating history and ensuring that this never happens again. The agressors keep on asking them to forget the history. They must however never forget this otherwise they will be complacent again and be unprepared. At the moment Japanese military hardware is far superior. China knows and the leaders are prepared to build up so that they can defend the country if ever Japan tries again! It is better to be prepared than to be sorry again!

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Japan's aggression was not provoked... it was purely based on Japanese believing they were a superior race and it was their right to divide and conquer others. This is what is taught at Yasukuni Shrine and many of the current leaders still believes this nonsense.

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China should concentrate less on wars and more on economic preeminence, regional peaceful leadership, and human rights. This idea of expanding Chinese territory because of past "humiliations" shows that there's a lot to be learned yet....

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@decibelAUG. 04, 2014 - 03:57PM JST

Wasn't there a commemoration of the lost of lives in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WW2 not too long ago. I think Japan is the one still feeling the pain after all these years.

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Every year, in August, Many people from many countries visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki where people pray for peace. It has been so many years. You may not believe but Japanese in 1945 were glad Japan lost the war. then. As soon as it was sure, in my girls middle school, we used saved ketchup to pour on rice in lunch pail. We did not have to pretend harakiri (seppuku) as we heard Emperor's voice on radio, The school declared summer vacation was resumed. No more firebomb evacuation practice in our city. Sorry for A bomb victims but A bombs rescued us, that way we were, then,

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It really doesn't follow logically that the Sino-Japanese War of 1884/85 where Japan defeated the Qing Dynasty should be considered by the Chinese to be their biggest humiliation. The Qing Dynasty was established by the Manchus, and to enforce their laws they beheaded 2,000,000 Chinese men for refusing to wear the mandatory "pigtails". all me crazy but I think that's a much greater humiliation than being defeated fair and square in a war with modern weapons.

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zichi, I'm very serious with my comment. So do you think Obama studied history from both US perspective and Japan perspective, then said something like that? He is lucky he is the president of winner, and Japanese are nice and quiet and patient, not complaining people. What's the big idea for Obama to criticize Japan over comfort women which US is equally or more guilty of?

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zichi

You haven't answered my as well.

Basically PRC wants to keep a blind eye of their failures while accusing others like yourself.

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Tinawatanabe

Are you being serious with your comment, and even friends of Japan, like the prime minister of Singapore and the Presidentof the United States of America have requested that it deals honestly with its war past?

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"For a gentleman's revenge, 120 years is not yet too late."

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Japan has failed to deal correctly and honestly with its war past and that remains a problem today.

No. You can not find anybody who is dealing more correctly and honestly with its war past than Japan

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Thunderbird

Get a grip on ya reality. Being a pure Celt why stop with the Romans? All the English are foreigners?

Being 120 years ago for the First Sino Japanese War isn't that long ago when compared also to the First World War 100 years ago.

Personally all wars should be remembered in the hope that it just might prevent further future wars. The way China wants to remember the First and Second Sino Japanese Wars and its more than 20 million dead, is surely up to them?

Japan has failed to deal correctly and honestly with its war past and that remains a problem today.

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Corruption and Despotism were China's biggest humiliation. Corruption still can be China's biggest humiliation although Xi is taking care of that.

There is no doubt the Sino-Japanese defeat of China is their biggest humiliation because the Chinese thought very little of Japan. Even today, they don't refer Japan as Japan, its little Japan. And Japanese as thieving Japanese (in a more racists terms). Basically every Chinese that I've dealt with are racists against the Japanese because they thought and think so little of you.

I don't know why but its probably a historical or cultural thing.

And since the Chinese didn't think as little against the Brits, French or Russians, the Opium war or Boxer Rebellion or really the colonization of Hong Kong and Macau should've taken as top and uber humiliation. Its because its a race war and Chinese viewed the western powers as far superior than the Japanese. So losing to Japan was most humiliating because they thought you guys are just uncivilized monkeys at that time. Much like how the rest of the world thought of Japan during those times.

The fact that China still think so little of Japan only means they have never thought very highly of you to begin with. So that's probably the reason why.

But in my pov, the Opium war definitely takes the cake on humiliation as a single event. Corruption and lack of support by the Hans for the Manchu are really the reasons because with a capable gov't and unification among its people, Brits, Russians or Japanese wouldn't have stand a chance. So the Chinese only have themselves to blame.

That's why this current generation of Chinese use Japan as a target. Japan is the bulls eye that provides a reason for Chinese to unify and vent towards. Now that Chinese leaders are battling corruptions for real, that makes it more dangerous against Japan since the focus will turn on Japan, Vietnam and Philippines. Its a dangerous time for Japan. You guys need to muscle up your defense for real. You will need offensive weapons because defensive weapons won't save you from the Chinese. They know you inside and out. I will bet my left leg that they know everything there is to know about Japan's military, training, development, weapons, systems, communications, deployments time and speed and all stations and R&D.

So spend that cash on more F-35s and Ospreys. You're gonna need them.

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Zichi... I was talking about WW1 when I mentioned remembrance... a war which Germany has certainly NOT come to terms with. There are no memorials to that war in Germany, only one museum... they don't talk about it. WW2 is a different kettle of fish... There are more wars than WW2 to remember.

Back on topic, and this is really just another hammer to try and hit the Japanese with, but it'll backfire, showing how petty they are for dragging up a war that's stupidly old. As Adam above said, how far back are they going to go with their 'poor China always being invaded' shtuff?

I hate the Romans for killing my ancestors nearly 2000 years ago. Damn you Italy! I demand compensation and an apology for the Picts killed by Romans!

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Germany admitted and dealt with its Nazi war past, something which Japan could learn from when dealing with its war past.

Typical Korean favorite rhetoric when criticizing Japan. Koreans don't care about the facts that German doesn't want to be dragged in Japan-bashing, and that German and Japan are in good relation, and that German don't like Koreans the most.

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SamuraiBlue

Both the Chinese and Japanese were in Korea, why did you decide to miss that out and refused point blank to even attempt to answer my question with asking a question?

Both the Frist and Second Sino Japanese Wars were started by Japan?

Thunderbird

The difference in remembering the two world wars in that all the European countries come together to remember those very tragic events is also because of the way Germany admitted and dealt with its Nazi war past, something which Japan could learn from when dealing with its war past.

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Can we all just get along?

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zichi

First enlighten us on why the Qing military was in Korea in the first place. Remember the first Sino Japan war started in Korea not China.

While you are at it why don't you educate us on how many nations and regions mainland China invaded in the past 100 years?

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This kind of advacay would be counter productive.

For a country which originated the quintessential codes of Confucius who put huge weight on face-value, China’s unusual facing-past--humiliation propaganda could be a potential nightmare for Japan in distance future if the tie between Japan and China would not being mended soon given time is not exact on Japan’s side .

I think that Japan’s political leaders know the danger is looming large on the horizon for Japan, and time is not exact on Japan’s side. The problem is that those leaders are lack of effective devices to defuse the time-bomb since both Japan and China are hijacked by toxic nationalism.

Hopefully, Abe and Xi will be able to meet at APEC summit and the icy relation starts to thaw.

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SamuraiBlue

Please inform me who started the First Sino Japanese War and why, how many Chinese and Japanese died? You could also inform me who started the Second Sino Japanese War and how many Chinese and Japanese died. While you are educating me please tell me how many times in the past 150 years the Chinese have invaded Japan, and how many times Japan invaded China?

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zichi

I guess you haven't read my post. I wrote "mostly" . I also would like to add that the indigenous Taiwan islanders were oppressed as much as the Koreans and mostly appreciated the defeat.

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Adam, you took the words right out of my mouth.

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China banging on about a war 120 years ago and still pointing fingers is incredibly childish and just another example of how Chinese thinking has not progressed into the 20th Century. Hell, it's not even progressed out of the 19th Century! I spend roughly half my time in Taiwan and half my time in Japan and the difference is remarkable. In Taiwan people will stab you in the back at the slightest thing you say about them and woe betide saying anything that isn't good about Taiwan... That gets you cut down straight away and they'll go off plotting their revenge.

China is the same and with this crap about the Sino Japanese War, come on forget about it!! Most people who fought in that war will now be aged between 140 and 150 and buried under 6 feet of mud. We live in an interconnected world now, so get on with getting on with people and look to the future, as we can do so much as a world without sitting in the past.

But China, if you're listening, by your logic, as I was born in the UK, I should be still very aggrieved about the Boer War. I should be very angry that this short guy called Napoleon came to rule France after the revolution and started an ongoing war across Europe. Hey, actually as a former colony of the Roman Empire, I'm really really angry for the Goths, Visigoths, Huns and more that came out of Central Asia and destroyed the Empire! Doing that killed many Romans, set civilization into a frozen dark age and ended up with a patchwork of kingdoms and nations that resulted in so many wars and so many deaths over the last 1,500 years and is only returning to a period of relative peace now, since the formation of the EU.

Yes Huns and Visigoths, I hate you and will never forgive you. And please don't anyone say that there's something wrong with my saying so, as I'm simply applying Chinese 'logic' to European history.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

From this article

"On Liugong island, a hilly anchorage off the eastern city of Weihai and the former home of the Beiyang fleet, the pictures, documents and weapons in a museum dedicated to the conflict blame not only Japan's "war of aggression" but also China's weakness, corruption and backwardness at the time."

WHAT?

"but also China's weakness, corruption and backwardness at the time"

Hold up a minute, 120 years ago China was like this?!

WELL THEN, NOTHING HAS CHANGED in a 120 years!!!

Oh, except that Japan has moved on and advanced while China continues to act like a little shite.

China is as pathetic as they come when it comes to improving themselves without cheating, lying, killing, beating, stealing, poisoning, bullying and throwing a hissy fit anytime they don't get what they want. Well, if there was an Olympic event in BS, China would wrap up the podium with Gold, Silver and Bronze, however we all know they would still cheat and the medals would be knock-offs.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

SamuraiBlue Map of fist Sino Japanese War showing troop movement including Japanese troops fighting in Formosa which also led to the loss of the island.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/First_Sino-Japanese_War.svg/459px-First_Sino-Japanese_War.svg.png

The war started in the Seoul area of modern South Korea. Both China and Japan had the right to send troops to Korea under the Tientsin Convention of 1885. A rebellion broke out in Korea in 1894, known as the Tonghak Rebellion. Japan used this as a pretext to try to start a war with China in Korea,which China and Japan had been ruling as a co-protectorate, with China playing the leading role. Soon, both China and Japan had troops in Korea, and this explosive situation soon led to conflict .Japan felt it was strong enough at this point to challenge China in a war over Korea.

After the defeat in Pyongyang, there was no more Chinese resistance in Korea and two Japanese armies invaded Manchuria, with Port Arthur, Newchang, Yinkou being taken . While taking Port Arthur, the Japanese found the mutilated remains of Japanese prisoners and went on a frenzy of killing in Port Arthur in which almost all of the remaining Chinese population of the city was massacred, known as the Port Arthur Massacre .

http://sinojapanesewar.com

The Japanese troops went on into Manchuria were the Chinese were too weak to defeat them.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

zichi

Apperently you have no recollection of history since the first Sino Japanese war was fought mostly on the Korean peninsula and were not the victims.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

lucabrasi

but in the first Sino Japanese war, the Chinese were the victims and it started a period that didn't end until the end of the second Sino Japanese war in 1945. During that period more than 20 million Chinese civilians lost their lives.

When Japan remembers it war past does it too remember its victims? It also led to the occupation of Korea and the annexe of that country.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/08/01/still-testy-after-120-years-lessons-from-the-first-sino-japanese-war/

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

@zichi

True, but both sides are coming together in Europe to remember the dead and promise there'll be no repeat.

This is very different.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Yeah Zichi, but we're not wringing our hands and blaming anyone for it. There's a difference between remembrance and finger pointing.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Europe has just remembered the First World War, which was 100 years ago.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This mental sickness in China's society is directly instilled by the leaders of China that try to shed responsibility of the 10s of millions these leaders themselves are responsible for of their own people and the massacres throughout these dictator's leadership of China and these incidents are of an endless number. But they use the Japan issue to gloss over all their own wrongs against the people and the people of China re just to stupid to understand this. Here in the US, we were drug into the war with Japan and we fought Japan and saved China's but, and look at the aggressive actions China has had against us over the years after the war as support and fighting with the Vietcong against our troops, then the Korean war against our troops and now doing all thy can to drive us out of the Asian Pacific away from our allies and the continual support of North Vietnam and the continual threats against our allies and friends in Southeast Asia and East Asia. China is based on the total commitment of domination at everyone's expense and will LIE, CHEAT, and STEAL to accomplish this sole sick minded dream this killer leaders have always had as a dream. Now that we all have contributed to China's rise, this is what we get in return! Western nations and allies today should do a total reversal of all that has brought China to the point it is at today with the investments and stop looking the other way as China aggressively confronts friends and allies of western nations and total disrespect of democracies in the region and disrespect for democracy itself that the Chinese people seem to still be so ignorant to, and shove China right back into the isolated backwards state where it came from before western nations and allies began this competition between one another as to see who could get the biggest slice of China's 1.3 consumers which this process has worked into a divide between long time allies that was once a powerful force that in the past could have stopped such aggression by nations like China, dead n their tracks, but still we have this greed playing a major role in backtracking on our values when it comes to such countries like China and Russia! China is no different today when it comes to its leadership as it was 60 years ago, society is no t more intelligent as it was 60 years ago, proof being is the mindset of the people and the mindset of its society when still so easily manipulated by these leaders that has a past history of brutality and forced silence, censorship and restricted flow of information into China! Even China's dream of domination is still very much alive but now with the support of all the democracies around the world!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

120 years ago and they're still banging on about it? Unbelievable.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Wasn't there a commemoration of the lost of lives in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WW2 not too long ago. I think Japan is the one still feeling the pain after all these years.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

AFP under the photo can't even spell Japanese correctly.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What China wanted is the see the Japanese government on their knees and says yes to everything China do and wanted to do without any resistance. At the moments they are not getting that from Japan. They will keep trying for the next 120 years if they have to. China may forget this is Japan a country that invaded China 70 years ago and not Vietnam or the Philippines an easy target.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yes, seems this will never go away. Kind of like the US and Britain hating each other for the War of Independence....... Or Germany and Russia not talking because of WW2.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Looking at Mr Japan's past posts I guess he wasn't being sarcastic but guess I still wouldn't downvote him, as he seems sincere.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

MASSWIPE

The main battle fields of the first Sino Japan war was faught mainly on the Korean peninsula. Calling it purely a byproduct shows you have no recollection of history.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If we teach our children to seek revenge, when will the violence ever stop? Can we not realize that this "eye for an eye" will lead to nothing but an endless cycle of death and sadness? Why not teach our children the meaning of "forgiveness" instead?

It pains me to read comments by educated adults on this site who want nothing more than to exact revenge on incidents that happened generations ago. If you killed a Japanese soldier today, would that bring back to life your ancestors who were lost? Why not seek to life in peace and harmony with our neighbors both at home and abroad?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Mr Japan

my ancestors are bad. i feel ashamed being a japanese.

I upvoted Mr Japan's post but it's because I really feel he was being sarcastic (he was -11 at that point).

WWII ended almost 70 years ago. The effects are still with us, but the people who instigated it and furthered it are almost certainly all dead or doddering in their wheelchairs. The people who are trying to push all these aggravationist agendas have their own purposes. Whether Abe, the Chinese Politburo, or others. They all like to keep themselves in power and this is an easy way to do it, thus it is the way they will use. No reason for the rest of us to indulge them.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well, looks like I've provoked the most insistent purveyors here of standard, right-wing Japanese-style blather regarding what the Sino-Japanese War was about. The account I gave is one that is generally accepted by historians and international relations specialists. Japan's objective in the 1894-95 war, again, was to destroy the Sinocentric world order in Asia and replace it with the European Westphalian system. If Korea was made nominally independent as a result, it was purely a byproduct and not remotely close to being Japan's core objective--which was, again, to gain the upper hand over China in a dog-eat-dog Social Darwinist environment.

It became independent of your so-called Sinocentric tribute and derogatory stranglehold. What is that you are disputing about the independence? Of course after centuries of this, the state of Korea needed guidance including appointing a British expert to handle financial matters initially. I think it's naive to equate "independence" of 1890's to that of the 1950's and further considering how backwards Korea was at that time.

Nigelboy, if this correct would you be willing to concede that you actually have something in common with the Manchus who ruled China until 1912?

I have no idea what this means.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Well, looks like I've provoked the most insistent purveyors here of standard, right-wing Japanese-style blather regarding what the Sino-Japanese War was about. The account I gave is one that is generally accepted by historians and international relations specialists. Japan's objective in the 1894-95 war, again, was to destroy the Sinocentric world order in Asia and replace it with the European Westphalian system. If Korea was made nominally independent as a result, it was purely a byproduct and not remotely close to being Japan's core objective--which was, again, to gain the upper hand over China in a dog-eat-dog Social Darwinist environment.

"The reason why Qing didn't dare to place Korea on the map is because they thought they were inferior."

Nigelboy, if this correct would you be willing to concede that you actually have something in common with the Manchus who ruled China until 1912?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

It seems China is on its way to replace US as the largest economy in the world in the next 15-20 years or maybe sooner. I don't think there is anything US and its allies can do to stop that from happening. Then, wouldn't it be good for the rest of the world to work with China, so many countries can also benefit economically from her success? We know China is 4.5 times of US and is 14 times of Japan in terms of population. It is a huge consumers' market. The Koreans are currently reaping in all those economical benefits.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

'What a pathetic enormous chip on the shoulder country. The Sino-Japanese Was their biggest humiliation? What was the Opium War? Or the Boxer Rebellion?

Of course, but we all know that this "chip" is just a fabrication of the Chinese Communist Party.'

A very reasonable point. Unfortunately, the poster who wrote about this 'chip' takes a scattergun approach in posting his hatred of China. It seems it isn't only 'China' with a chip on its shoulder.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Good for you Mr. Japan. Congratulations (read sarcasm). Now, sarcasm to the side, if any of us is going to be ashamed for what any of our ancestors did in the past, I can assure you that we would ALL live a life of shame. Stop living in the past already and start living in the present. There are tons of reasons to be proud of Japan. And if you can't find any, then start doing something yourself, like being more pro-active in the international community or something.

Seriously, your posting of self pity comments on every single article about Japan's relations with its neighbours sounds really denigrating.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

MASSWIPE

I wonder why the Koreans erected the Independence Gate then?

Here is an article that was issued during that time.

The congratulations for the independence of Korea from the rule of Qing

Korea was a vassal state of the Qing Dynasty for years. However, Korea has been able to be an independent nation in favor of God. Now, monarch of Korea has become an equal footing with world leaders. And Korean people has been so free people in the world. So I think there is no reason to ignore the auspicious thing like this. I think the symbol will be necessary in order to inform that Korea has been an independent for the world. And for the people of the next era, it will tell them that Korea has become independent from eternity at this time. Then, the Korean people should exercise and take a rest in fresh air and quiet and scenery place well.

Koreans and Chinese are alike having such short memory when good deed is involved.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@decibelAUG. 04, 2014 - 09:10AM JST Wakos mean "Shortie Bandits"; a termed coined by the Koreans and Hans for the pirates from islands eastern to their borders way back in ancient times

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Wa of Wakou use a kanji wa that is used as Japan. The kanjis Dai and Wa together is Yamato (Japan) Wa does not have shortie (mijikai, tni) equivalent Kanji. Kou, is used Genkou to signify Mongorian brave. Wakou for Japanese brave. Nothing about bandit. Check Kamakura era Kanjis and idioms. ./shorties, ranku was used then, /Check Kamakura era documents, Back to topic, Japanese, Koreans and Chinese use different language and so there is no record that they communicated each other then. Chinese people have legitimate reason to blame Japan. There must be many people who lost homes and relatives because of Japanese then policy of Shina Senryaky ( Invade and capture China). Chinese did not invade Japan. Japan did. Such horrible slogans were openly declared in Japan. There was children's entertainment called Kamishibai. Each page is shown with picture and narrator read back explanation of picture for children, To brainwash how sacred Japanese war in Japan was. At that time, Japanese militray was proud to invade China and stole Korea..

3 ( +4 / -1 )

What a pathetic enormous chip on the shoulder country. The Sino-Japanese Was their biggest humiliation? What was the Opium War? Or the Boxer Rebellion?

Of course, but we all know that this "chip" is just a fabrication of the Chinese Communist Party.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"As for Korea they were granted independence after the first Sino-Japan war."

Standard right-wing Japanese-style blather. Look at maps of pre-1894 East Asia. Korea is never included as a province of Qing Dynasty China. Korea was a sovereign, independent country--within the context of the Sinocentric world order. Japan's objective in the Sino-Japanese War was to destroy that order once and for all, which it did by getting China to recognize Korea as independent in the context of the Westphalian international order. Japan's objective wasn't to make Korea independent, since it already was according to the regional order that had prevailed for 500 years, but rather to replace China's conception of the regional order with Europe's conception of the regional order. The Japanese correctly understood that forcing the Chinese to recognize the European (i.e. white man's) system of international relations as supreme in East Asia would fatally weaken the ruling monarchy in Peking.

Alas, Japan's ultimate hope of seeing China's territory carved up like a Christmas day turkey a la Africa following the Berlin Conference of 1884 never became a reality, embittering a land-hungry Tokyo and setting the stage for the violent struggles of the 1930s and 1940s.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@hidingout,

So you can conclude now that China is the nation that create the word "lost face" and most likely to remember the humiliation, and unfortunately, this humiliation was built by Japan.

I bet China as a big nation will never truely forgive Japan. China will revenge this in any kind of possible way in the future. I know very well of this.

Look, what kind of things had been created by the ancestor!

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

“The war overturned the traditional balance of power in Asia, when Japan unseated China as the dominant power. Ever since China has been trying to restore its former position of preeminence,” said SCM Paine, professor of strategy and policy at the US Naval War College.

Yeah that sums it up nicely. While one can understand how humiliating it must have been at the time to be so thoroughly trounced by a tiny country like Japan, the commies have had more than a century to get over it.

Sadly the bigwigs in the CPC are more interested in remembering the "lost face" and the "humiliation" than they are in joining the rest of us in the 21st century. This article outlines very clearly why the PRC can never be trusted to have fair relations with Japan. Even a hundred more years from now they will still be looking for a chance to "even the score".

Decades of foreign aid and cooperation from Japan have done nothing to blunt the thirst for revenge. The best course of action from here on out is to isolate and ignore them as much as possible.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Japan will never understand what the feelings of the victim, and the humiliation of that broungt to them, especially as the most brutal nation during the war.

So Japan will never understand how great the hate that planted into the deep bottom of the heart of Chinese. Think about what is doing by the Japan Gvt? Just to greater the hate.

Remember, China is a great nation, it is not just some small nation. What is the result to make a great a nation to endure these? what will the USA will do under such circumstance?

Although some of them forget of this, but some of them would like to take the chance to revenge back with the same brutal way. China is just waiting. That is why they postpone all the territory disputs to the furture.

They just wait for Japan to trigger a war to make them to have an excuse to erase Japan. That's what is going on.

Remember, the more that been pressed in the heart the more and longer it will last.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

During WW II, we could talk how Japan stole Korea, had plan to steal Manchuria, and many things such as Princess Masako was given to Korean future Emperor, a Noble lady was given to Manchuria emperor's brother etc openly in school. After war, what we gossiped during war such as comfort girls stories were not openly talked. Well, Japanese culture was ignore female talks, anyway.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Everything realting to Chinese humuliation by many of the foreign powers at the time (including Japan) still stings China.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

decibel

China did not retake Hong Kong it was returned since it was under a 99 years lease.The British only honored the original contract.

Japanese pirates would not hike across the sea in order to pillage a village since it would be more costly for them of time and food to complete such voyage then to pillage a village in homeground Japan. You're completely lost if you can't understand something so elementary.

As for Korea they were granted independence after the first Sino-Japan war. Unfortunately they failed miserably with vast mismanagement of state and Japan had to bail them out again.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Thus, war between Japan, which wanted to secure Koreas independence, and the Qing, which wanted it to remain subordinate, became unavoidable.

"Historical novelist" Fuyuji Domon is more novelist than historian.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@decibel

China peaceful rapid development ? I will say China was wolf under sheep skin, just for the sake of having thousands of western and Japanese factories build in China, thats the only reason behind so called rapid China development, the super cheap working force . And in that way you obtained the much needed money and technical development for your military .

6 ( +14 / -8 )

@Mr JapanAUG. 04, 2014 - 08:48AM JST my ancestors are bad. i feel ashamed being a japanese

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''.

Don't pretend your ancestors were decision makers of Japan. FYI, Japan was never democratic country. Decision making process, only known big shots did. Their names are in Wikipedia and their birth place people know who are related to big shots. Where their descendents worked, etc.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Wakos mean "Shortie Bandits"; a termed coined by the Koreans and Hans for the pirates from islands eastern to their borders way back in ancient times.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The Wakos during the 16th century were not all Japanese since many Koreans and Chinese pirates dressed up like Japanese to pillage coastal villages and placed blame on the Japanese.

If think of economy for the Japanese pirates it was more easier for them to pillage a Japanese village in Japan then to travel across the sea to pillage a Chinese and or Korean village and visa versa.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Speaking of Opium war, China retook Hong Kong without firing a single bullet. Wasn't that amazing? Now all the big foreign powers are flocking to China to do business in peace this time. Kudos to China for her 30 years of rapid development. Other countries should not be jealous or afraid of what China has achieved. Instead we should congratulate her for her achievement and her peaceful rise.

-22 ( +5 / -27 )

my ancestors are bad. i feel ashamed being a japanese.

-21 ( +10 / -31 )

There were many wars between China and Japan in history.

There were two wars known as the Sino-Japanese War : The First Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895) between China (the Qing Dynasty) and Japan (the Empire of Japan), primarily over control of Korea

The Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) between China (Republic of China) and Japan (the Empire of Japan), from 1941 on as part of World War II

Other wars involving China and Japan were:

Baekje-Tang War (660-663)

Battle of Baekgang (663)

The Mongol invasions of Japan in 1274 and 1281: a coalition of Mongol, Chinese and Korean troops under the Yuan dynasty unsuccessfully invaded Kamakura Japan.

War between Ming dynasty and Japanese Wokous during mid 16th century

The Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598) was a full-scale war between a Ming dynasty and Joseon coalition and the invading Japanese (called by B.Elman "the first Sino-Japanese war" )

The 1895 Japanese invasion of Taiwan (1895) of the ex-Qing, Chinese inhabited Republic of Formosa

Japan was part of the Eight-Nation Alliance that invaded Qing dynasty China during the Boxer Rebellion (1898-1901)

The Jinan Incident (1928) between Japanese-backed warlords and the Kuomintang (Kokumin tou - people's Party)

The Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931 (Manshu Shinryaku - Japan made puppet Manshu-koku)

The January 28 Incident (1932) between the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan in, and around, Shanghai

The Defense of the Great Wall (1933) of Rehe (province) and subsequent Actions in Inner Mongolia (1933-1936)

How Japanese military govt fooled Japanese, Korean and Manchuria people to pretend Japan helped, you don;t will not learn from Wikipedia.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

China's political power at the time this war started was already seriously weakened by decades of European colonial influence, including the humiliating losses in the First and Second Opium Wars. The poor governance of the Qing Empress Dowager Cixi that weakened China's government also didn't help things, either. As such, when the first Sino-Japanese War started, the vastly better-trained Japanese forces quickly defeated the Chinese forces in a matter of months and drastically changed political balance of power in northeastern Asia in favor of Japan until the end of World War II.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

CLEARLY a propaganda to erode present-day self-humiliating scandals and actions of the communist state. Anyone heard about Mao's mass genocide or Faulon Gong? I don't, but mostly from Japan's past historical aggression.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

What a pathetic enormous chip on the shoulder country. The Sino-Japanese Was their biggest humiliation? What was the Opium War? Or the Boxer Rebellion?

21 ( +29 / -8 )

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