South Korea, Japan resume annual defense talks

Yes, talk to each other before mother America slaps both of your butts and sends you both to the naughty corner...

"South Korea also expressed concern about the possibility of Japan exercising the doctrine of “collective self-defense” around the Korean peninsula without its consent."

Considering the anti-Japan policy that South Korea has and continues to take, at the expense of US strategic policy, South Korea should be concerned if Japan would lift a finger to help them even if they begged.

ebisen

Read the article carefully. What actions above Japan is trying to do deserve "mother America slaps and sent to the naughty corner... "?

with an ever increasingly aggressive China in the region Japan and Korea both have to figure out how to get along and quickly.

Japan, especially under the current administration, is probably not helping by trying to "research" issues of war times, best to unequivocally apologise and move on, Korea, as well probably needs to stop using Japan as an easy target and work to actively assist any victims of war and repair ties with its neighbour rather than using it as a political tool.

The changes to the interpretations of the constitution... I'm fairly sure these are mostly driven by America which is Koreas ally too, so Im not sure precisely what the issue is there.. in-fact it would potentially mean that Japan would potentially have to fight with and for South Korea if there are issues with North Korea or China.

I hope deeply that Abe doesn't do everyone, and his country a great disservice by down playing Japans past in the region in the upcoming anniversaries, at the same time, Japan isn't the country it was then, not even close, so in my opinion its time for the neighbours to move forward too, Im sure there are real grievances that should be addressed but not as a political tool to divert attention from other issues.

Watanabe! Why does Japan behave childishly, in one word you can't find? YASUKUNI!

NZ2011

You don't know anything about SK. Please you and other westerners have been hurting the Japanese people too much. US interference, which has been only demandiing Japan to give in, made situation even worse ended up SK demanding more. If you want to interfere you have know the issue in great detail at least by reading or trying to understand even a little bit of the Japanese side.

Considering the anti-Japan policy that South Korea has and continues to take, at the expense of US strategic policy, South Korea should be concerned if Japan would lift a finger to help them even if they begged.

With the attitude SK is showing, I hope not. They better not use the U.S. Forces in Japan when $hit hits the fan in the peninsula. They should also close the Kyushu outlets so these refugees don't get in. Don't want them claiming that they were forced to come to Japan a decade later.

Sorry Ossan, U.S. can save SK on their own using their existing forces there or get out.

Tinawatanabe.

Im not sure we will be able to have a constructive conversation based on past experience but..

Firstly, Im not american, Im no big fan of America either, and I live and will probably live forever in Japan.

Secondly, what precisely do you object to in my comment? I thought it was quite fair and balanced, i.e everyone has work to do on all sides.

Excellent pragmatic news. The common enemy is Nuclear North Korea. Common sense prevails.

"You don't know anything about SK. Please you and other westerners have been hurting the Japanese people too much. US interference, which has been only demandiing Japan to give in, made situation even worse ended up SK demanding more. If you want to interfere you have know the issue in great detail at least by reading or trying to understand even a little bit of the Japanese side."

@tinawatanabe I swear you must be a NorK internet troll

Secondly, what precisely do you object to in my comment? I thought it was quite fair and balanced, i.e everyone has work to do on all sides.

If your post doesn't say that Japan is perfect and that all ties with SK, China and the USA should be cut off forever, Tina will criticize you. Don't take it to heart.

Um that didn't work out very well for Japan last time, and as its now my home and my families home Im hoping we don't have those kind of problems again...

I will try not to take it personally, though I find blind patriotism to be one of the most distasteful things, all countries, all things have good and bad, it is simply a fact. Japan certainly has an overwhelming amount of good things else I wouldn't stay here, however it is simply ignorant to suggest any country or government is above criticism.

NZ2011

I don't expect a constructive conversation either. I remember from your name that you are not an American, but not different in this issue.

Japan and SK have different perception about comfort women issue. You have the same perception as SK and demand Japan for another apology. Nothing fair and balanced.

You should trurst the Japanese people more in general. They are mostly honest and educated and hardworking people. They can deicde what is the best for them by themselves without interference from the people who don't know as much as the Japanese.

I find blind patriotism to be one of the most distasteful things

That describes Tina's posting style pretty well.

You should trurst the Japanese people more in general.

It's not the Japanese people we have a problem with. It's the right-winger Japanese people we dislike. And they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy again and again and again. So our trust for them will never increase, even as our trust of Japanese people as a whole does.

"Japan insists the issue of the so-called “comfort women” was settled in a 1965 agreement that restored diplomatic ties."

Chinese, Koreans and other neighboring countries should thank the US for nuking Japan. A totally necessary action to end sex slavery and other atrocities... The US saved Asia from savages.

"Japan and SK have different perception about comfort women issue. You have the same perception as SK and demand Japan for another apology. Nothing fair and balanced."

@Tinawatanabe The only people who don't have South Korea's 'perception' of what the comfort women issue was all about are the 日本会議 and you, it appears. What balancing is necessary?

They better not use the U.S. Forces in Japan when $hit hits the fan in the peninsula.

I didn't know Japan commands the US forces in Japan? That is very strange and odd.

Kenny Iyekawa

Nope I believe there was an American reporter/writer who done an expose on the subject last year going all around the SEA and US national archives and found nothing that the Koreans were saying was fact.

It's basically a well precieved propaganda that the Koreans are perpatuating.

@triring Can you give me the name of the reporter and/or a link to his report? Because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, ya know...BTW reminds me of the 'Holocaust never happened' crowd of cockoos...

tinawatanabe.

Once again you are suggesting that I am saying things I am not.

I never said I don't trust Japanese people in general, or that I think they are not hard working or educated.. I love Japanese people, in general, and admire many of their traits, however I don't think the current government fairly represents the views of most ordinary Japanese people I talk to.

I didn't specifically mention "comfort women", but now that you bring it up, how hard is it to apologise really, meaningfully and truthfully for the terrible situation these women ended up in, no matter your opinion on how they ended up there or how many there were.

Incidentally, the idea that an apology is a one time thing and its all wrapped up is ridiculous, the ongoing issues from war and occupation go on for many many generations.

As for not knowing the Japanese, I disagree, not as many people agree with you as might think Tina.

I have sat for hours with my Japanese Grandmother (by marriage, but still my family) and talked and cried together about the war, her experiences, losing her home, friends and youth, the lies and deception from the people in power at that time and how she hopes that Japan will never ever become that kind of nation again.

War is a terrible thing and many terrible things occur on all sides, but to hide from it, or say we are no worse than anyone else, or its all fixed now, is not only dishonest it takes away from those who have truly suffered on ALL sides.

At very least if some degree of humility on Japans part would help diplomatic relationships, even if its just for that reason, isn't it worth it?

@Triring, do you have links to this information? Im always interested to learn more. I suggest to say "nothing" the Koreans say is fact is a little bit of a leap.

I didn't know Japan commands the US forces in Japan? That is very strange and odd.

Not command. More like permission. In other words, U.S. Forces in Japan needs to seek approval from the Japanese government if they want to deploy forces elsewhere.

It's an exchange agreement made in addendum to the Mutual Security Treaty.

http://www.focus-asia.com/socioeconomy/photonews/401296/

This was also confirmed in last year's Diet hearing.

Kenny Iyekawa

Why don't you use Google as I did in doing a search?

Michael Yon is his name and here is a link to a recent article.

http://eng.the-liberty.com/2014/5641/

NZ2011

I never said I don't trust Japanese people in general,

Your posts do. It is obvious you don't believe what Japan says. At least for a moment unless you assume " What if what Japan says is true?" about comfort women, no point of talking. To show how much Japanese people are hurt by SK, you can check how much Japanese tourists/investment there is decreasing.

Who speaks for japan, and what is it that you think they say about this issue?

And again why are you using this particualr straw man argument about Japan when I was never specifically talking this one issue until you brought it up?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

I was never specifically talking this one issue until you brought it up?

You demand Japan apologize in your first post. What do you have in your mind Japan should apologize for then? Since you said apology, how can I talk about it without mentioning what you are demanding apology for?

For its actions during the war, and previous occupations in general my friend.

Unresevadly sorry and reject the ideals of the time and are commited to a future of co-operation and peace.

I think this should be said by every nation involved, not just japan as it happens

NZ Your comments suggest you know about Japan Korea history only from Korean perspective and you are not neutral as other westerners. So let's just stop here.

I never said I don't trust Japanese people in general,

Your posts do.

You've shown a serious lack of English reading comprehension recently Tina. Are you so sure his posts say that? It's much more likely that you are misreading them.

To show how much Japanese people are hurt by SK, you can check how much Japanese tourists/investment there is decreasing.

Decrease in tourism is directly related to the weakening of the yen by the government. People cannot afford to travel as much anymore. Statistics on trade between Japan and Korea don't show any major change as of recent.

Maybe you need to check yourself, since you don't seem to know the numbers.

NZ Your comments suggest you know about Japan Korea history only from Korean perspective and you are not neutral as other westerners.

In your mind, anyone who doesn't think Japan is innocent of anything and everything 'only know history from a Korean perspective'. The reality is that you ignore anything that doesn't say Japan is perfect. We are not the ones with a distorted perspective Tina, you are.

Tina.. I never demanded anything, just simply shared my opinion. As a tax paying resident of japan I feel my opinion is valid, like it or not.

However you are right, we should stop, not because I'm influenced but Korea, which I have nothing to do with at all in almost anyway... But because I'm interested talking with people open to new ideas and can be intellectually honest.

Good luck living in your ever shrinking world view.

@tinawatanabe Can I have some of what you're smoking? LMAO

Why don't you use Google as I did in doing a search?

Michael Yon is his name and here is a link to a recent article.

http://eng.the-liberty.com/2014/5641/

Michael Yon? Maybe you should educate yourself via other sources.....

http://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/2rvc3p/this_document_claims_the_korean_comfort_women

nigelboyAug. 06, 2015 - 08:51AM JST Sorry Ossan, U.S. can save SK on their own using their existing forces there or get out.

While I fully understand your point of view, I consider today's Japan to be above that kind of response. South Korea's anti-Japan stance was originally imbedded in the 1980s when China declared that "China and Korea shared being victims of Japan". Interesting to note that in 1989 South Korea remained silent on the Tiananmen Square Massacre, neither condemning it nor condoning it, There is no question in my mind that Korean anti-Japan sentiment is fueled and supported by China, the main beneficiary of disrupting the US-Japan-SK alliance. In this light, responding to SK at the same puerile level is likely not the best solution. I have no doubt that SK is the weak link in our Fareast Strategic Policy and US administrations have been guilty of overlooking this issue, putting is where we are now.

OssanAmerica

US has long been helping SK's anti-Japan sentiment. There is another link of US-SK-China alliance, where US has become weak link at least in the SK eyes.

tinawatanabeAug. 06, 2015 - 10:54PM JST OssanAmerica US has long been helping SK's anti-Japan sentiment. There is another link of US-SK-China alliance, where US has >become weak link at least in the SK eyes.

Sorry, but I do not condone the use of recreational drugs.

While I fully understand your point of view, I consider today's Japan to be above that kind of response. South Korea's anti-Japan stance was originally imbedded in the 1980s when China declared that "China and Korea shared being victims of Japan". Interesting to note that in 1989 South Korea remained silent on the Tiananmen Square Massacre, neither condemning it nor condoning it, There is no question in my mind that Korean anti-Japan sentiment is fueled and supported by China, the main beneficiary of disrupting the US-Japan-SK alliance. In this light, responding to SK at the same puerile level is likely not the best solution. I have no doubt that SK is the weak link in our Fareast Strategic Policy and US administrations have been guilty of overlooking this issue, putting is where we are now.

Noted.

Personally, I have very little interest in how it was started and who is behind this nonsense but when the bottom line is that Korea's stance on how they are trying to dictate terms of this alliance leaves no doubt that it's not going to be an effective one even if there comes about an mutual agreement.

Dragging their feet on U.S. proposed missile defense deployment, remaining silent on the South China Sea conflict, and to top it off, being one of the only two nations to oppose Japan's current move toward limited collective self defense, are some of the recent examples of their lack of commitment.

South Korea's eventual fate is to attach themselves with China. Old habits never die.

Can not disagree with those points. I see this as a failure of the past and current US administrations to perceive and respond to the direction SK has taken. Unfortunately it has been allowed to go on for so long that at this stage, about the only thing that "might" change it is a US threat to pull all forces out of SK. Which may not be a bad thing anyway, as they are nothing but cannon fodder hostages. So..is Japan willing to accept facing China across the Sea of Japan?

"So..is Japan willing to accept facing China across the Sea of Japan?"

@tinawatanabe, what is your answer??

Sorry, but I do not condone the use of recreational drugs.

I don't take drugs not even painkiller. So you don't admit the fact that USA has been helping SK anti-Japan policy, which made the situation a lot worse.

"So..is Japan willing to accept facing China across the Sea of Japan?"

My concern is not the prospect of facing China, something else. Besides, China has long history of dealing with Koreans and knows Koreans, so it only treats as vassal state, not annexation. Very smart.

I don't take drugs not even painkiller.

You don't drink alcohol or coffee?

tinawatanabeAug. 07, 2015 - 08:59AM JST I don't take drugs not even painkiller. So you don't admit the fact that USA has been helping SK anti-Japan policy, which >made the situation a lot worse.

Admit to what exactly?

Admit to what exactly?

US helping SK's anti-Japan you know your govt criticizing shrine visit, demanding apology, changing history book of McGlow Hills on and on.

US helping SK's anti-Japan you know your govt criticizing shrine visit, demanding apology, changing history book of McGlow Hills on and on.

1) the fact is that it is more than fair to criticize the shrine visits. After all, an inconvenient fact for you right wingers is that Emepror Hirohito refused to visit Yasukuni after the 1978 enshrinement of the war criminals. If there is nothing wrong with Yasukuni, why won't the emperor visit?

2)demanding an apology? Pray tell, exactly who in the US is demanding an apology?

3)McGraw-Hill textbooks were changed? Again, you have it all wrong; Japanese diplomats in the US tried to get McGraw-Hill to change their textbooks. frankly, no government, Japanese, US, or otherwise should have the right to demand a textbook company to change its contents.

So, out of everything you pointed out, I see exactly 0 instances of "America" helping SK and its anti-Japanese agenda.

@cardsfan5 stop feeding the NorK trolls...let them eat grass

cardsfan5

2) Your govt many times demanded Japan include apology in speeches. For instance up coming Abe's statement your govt demanded. In Abe's Congress Address, several lawmakers demanded although Abe was invited to the speech and remorse or something was included in his speech.

Your president Obama criticized Japan over comfort women when he was in SK.

3) Yes Japan has no right regarding your textbook, but it was not true story it says more than 200,000 women were forced blah blah. The number seems bigger than 200,000, although there is no evidence USA wrote more exaggerated version than Korean usually saying. If if is not accurate I don't think it is wrong to ask to correct it.

Japan also asked some state to correct textbook to The sea of Japan because some state changed to East Sea or something.

1) You said Japan had no right to your textbook, then why do you have any right to Japan shrine visit? Your typical double standard. USA is always right, other countries are always wrong.

tinawatanabeAug. 07, 2015 - 10:12AM JST Admit to what exactly? US helping SK's anti-Japan you know your govt criticizing shrine visit, demanding apology, changing history book of >McGlow Hills on and on.

The US has never criticized PM Abe's Yasukuni visit. If you actually read the State Dept announcement it stated that the US was disappointed because "OTHER NATIONS WOULD TAKE OFENSE" not that the US would. Furthermore it stated that the US recognizes that he went to pray for peace, I assume you are aware of what China and SK say the PM goes to Yasukuni to do. "United States Marine Corps Lieutenant General Wallace Gregson (the 3rd Marine Division's commanding general) visited on April 26, 2001." This is AFTER the Class-A war Criminal's enshrinement, What "demanding apology"? The US and Japan settled everything at the San Francisco Treaty in 1951. As for Macgaw Hill, they are influenced by the huge Korean community in the United States that is actively working to advance the SKorean anti-Japan agenda. These people are influencing municipal and state governments to push their agenda from recognizing te silly "eat sea" naming to the "Comfort Women Monuments". And do you know what the Japanese-American community is doing? Nothing. They're harping on the WWII relocation camps. Many J-A organizations are actually supporting the Korean cause. Why is this? Because you Japanese treat "Nikkei" as gaijin. Very few J-As are willing t stand up against this concerted Korean effort, nit just in the US but on a global scale. Even a J-A politiciam like Mike Honda supports the Korean cause, And Japan's answer of sending Foreign Ministry bureaucrats to deal with local politicians that can easily be bought with votes is utterly useless. What are YOU doing to counter the Korean agenda tinawatanabe? You think that attacking he US is helping? Seriously get a clue.

The US has never criticized PM Abe's Yasukuni visit. If you actually read the State Dept announcement it stated that the US was disappointed because "OTHER NATIONS WOULD TAKE OFENSE" not that the US would.

That's still a criticism.

OssanAmerica

Yes before US was nice and did not complain about shrine visit, but not recently. This year Abe has made the first US Congress Address as Japan PM. Since then Abe hasn't visited the shrine. Koizumi was supposed to be the first Japanese PM to make the Congress Address, but at the last minute US demanded as a condition not to visit the shrine, so Koizumi gave up on the address.

Yes Foreign Ministry is useless because they are not so bright and cowards and the Japanese people are not good at lobbying .

What "demanding apology"?

As I wrote in my previous post above, in every Japan's speech US comes to demand some set of words be included in the speech. You don't know because those things do not become news in US.

You think that attacking he US is helping?

First, US is attacking Japan. I don't remember attacking US in my whole life before the shrine thing about two years ago. I was a big US fan.

Many south Korean people who agree China's view of the cayse of the Korean peninsula tragedy was caused by Japan, her colonial rule begining from the murder of the late Korean empress1910, a cowardice act of a group of Japanese swordsmen who were paid by the Japnese government to carr out the assassination . The Korean peninsula was divided to two in 1945 by USR& US forces, the PRC was yet to exist. The Korean war escalated was to MacArthur warmongering and he wants to help generallismo CKS to fight back to mainland which inflicted a higher sufferings to the Korean people. This man Douglas MacArthur , is a despicable person, he amesty some notorious Japanese warcriminals including Kishi Nobusuke,the grand uncle of Shinzo Abe. Japan is still run by those fascist decendents was thanks to MacArthur! By the way,talking about recent decades of US deeds in ROK... Backing those military junta that runs south Korea until 1991 was another reason the south koreans hate US,remember that Gwanju massacre18/5/1980 and General 'Chun Doo Hwan' runs coup that year, all the above can trace back with an American link!

So..is Japan willing to accept facing China across the Sea of Japan?

Not at this stage. But while China turning the whole peninsula into her province, I can envision Japan finally turning into a normal country with full security alliance among her allies, full collective defense, and revamped SDF (more hardware).

From a historical perspective, the continued 'protection' of Korea from whether it be the Qin, Russia, and now CCP has failed and it's about time Japan and U.S. think about the alternative which is a completely new security scheme based on the premise that Koreans will never be a reliable partner for democratic nations.

nigelboy AUG. 08, 2015 - 01:12AM JST I can envision Japan finally turning into a normal country with full security alliance among her allies, full collective defense, and revamped SDF (more hardware).

The japan will never be a normal country. Japan is a vassal state of the U.S. It is acting with the U.S. to contain China and ensure U.S. hegemony in east Asia.

The japan will never be a normal country. Japan is a vassal state of the U.S. It is acting with the U.S. to contain China and ensure U.S. hegemony in east Asia.

"Normal" as in able to exercize 'inherent right of individual or collective self-defence' guaranteed under Article 51 of the UN Charter. People who are familiar with this issue is well versed in the meaning of 'normal'. Apparently, you aren't.

nigelboyAUG. 08, 2015 - 03:38AM JST "Normal" as in able to exercize 'inherent right of individual or collective self-defence' guaranteed under Article 51 of the UN Charter. People who are familiar with this issue is well versed in the meaning of 'normal'. Apparently, you aren't.

What if their citizens don't want change? You might want to ask people in Japan first. If Japan is a true democracy, redefining its military role without presenting to their citizens raises many questions. In a democratic system, the government are suppose to listen to the will of the people. Polls indicate that two-thirds of the Japanese population is opposed to the bill. Abe should let people in Japan vote to see if they want change. Maybe Japan does not want to follow the democratic system.

What if their citizens don't want change?

See my post before which states 'But while China turning the whole peninsula into her province,'

In other words, peoples attitudes change for even 'reinterpreting' the consitution was taboo before China started marking their aggressive move.

If Japan is a true democracy, redefining its military role without presenting to their citizens raises many questions. In a democratic system, the government are suppose to listen to the will of the people.

The we wouldn't need lawmakers and make it all referandum.

Polls indicate that two-thirds of the Japanese population is opposed to the bill. Abe should let people in Japan vote to see if they want change. Maybe Japan does not want to follow the democratic system.

See above. At one point, many were opposed to the 1960 mutual treaty fearing that it would send Japanese kids to war. History proved that they were wrong. There is a case where the general public don't know enough to make the correct decision.

tinawatanabe: "Yes before US was nice and did not complain about shrine visit, but not recently. This year Abe has made the first US Congress Address as Japan PM. Since then Abe hasn't visited the shrine."

You literally said the US criticized Abe's shrine visit. Now you say Abe not visiting is an example of US criticism? You flat out lied with your comment, tina. Abe not visiting is not an example of what you said as a matter of fact the US has done.

"As I wrote in my previous post above, in every Japan's speech US comes to demand some set of words be included in the speech. You don't know because those things do not become news in US."

BS. The whole world has suggested, not demanded, that Abe not change his speech and keep in line with previous apologies, INCLUDING JAPANESE HISTORIANS! You can't deal with that, so you merely insult the US, South Korea, China, and

"Your president Obama criticized Japan over comfort women when he was in SK."

And rightfully so, since Abe has denied they were coerced despite it being proven fact. If you lay out bald-face lies, especially as a leader, and are called out on it, that's YOUR problem, not theirs, and especially when Abe is lying about Japan's atrocities.

"First, US is attacking Japan."

Ummm... yeah... in the article about South Korea and Japan resuming talks it's "the US attacking Japan", not at all your off-topic, incorrect implying that it's the US attacking Japan, defending South Korea, and Japan-as-victim nonsense again.

Japan should tell South Korea that they conflict with the North is an internal conflict and providing aid is against Japan's Peace Constitution.