politics

South Korean court orders Japan to compensate 12 former sex slaves

117 Comments
By Jung Yeon-je

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117 Comments

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12 out of maybe 300000 is a pretty good discount.

-23 ( +20 / -43 )

The dispute has festered despite the treaty and Seoul and Tokyo reached a deal in 2015 aimed at "finally and irreversibly" resolving it with a Japanese apology and the formation of a 1 billion yen fund for survivors.

The term 'deal' may confuse some naive Japanese. I clarify it. The so-called "final and Irreversible" deal was just a form of press conference held by a few delegates from Abe and Park administration without any signed document, not to mention the approvals from the parliaments.

-16 ( +19 / -35 )

Again, the K-Court crbbs living in the past, cut the drama, this is 21 century, move forward and stop deliring, because Japan won't pay anything for a deal reached before..

Game over, sorry no bonus...

27 ( +48 / -21 )

We should reduce tension with SK.

GOVT. need to go ahead, even accept to required sum.

-28 ( +16 / -44 )

$91,000 x 12 not a big price to pay considering that Japan has wasted $16 billion dollars on the Olympics which will never happen.

-4 ( +33 / -37 )

Japan needs to give a sincere apology and compensate these rape victims properly or else this will never end.

-20 ( +27 / -47 )

Another day and another agreement torn up by South Korea. Japan needs to walk away from South Korea and now!

28 ( +47 / -19 )

After speaking on this topic with several Japanese men, I doubt anything will ever come of it. They're utterly convinced Korean comfort women willingly entered a "social contract" with Japanese soldiers, thus clearing them of any wrongdoing. The mental gymnastics these people go through is impressive in its absurdity.

-5 ( +25 / -30 )

They need to be paid and a sincere apology is required until the South Koreans are happy. The ball is in their court. No Japan's.

-19 ( +18 / -37 )

I guess Japan made the mistake of not directly offering the hundreds of millions to the victims back in 1965. Trusting the Korean government to give the money to the victims now bites Japan.

Well, 1965 deal was ultimately useless after a few decades, despite there being a clause about no more discussion of compensation will occur anymore, hah.

I am confused; the 2015 deal aimed to compensate the Korean victims, but it was unpopular amongst them because the K government didn't discuss with the women, right? So does this mean the Korean courts discussed this case with them this time? Without the defendant, Japan being in the same room of discussion? That isn't how courts or deals are supposed to work, especially when they involve different nations, right? All sides should be discussing together, right?

So do the comfort women seek money as compensation, or do they seek genuine apology? Or do they seek both? Yet 2015 compensation money is not to be seen as an attempt of apology, but as an attempt by Japan to silence the victims? So money is not accepted as a sign of apology but they want money and something else as a gesture of apologizing? I wonder if they will accept an apology from the Japanese government if money is not given to them. Maybe they'll claim it is not genuine enough and asks for proper compensation instead, which usually ends up as money. But then the money is regarded as silencing the victims and letting go of responsibilities, which will then spiral into asking for genuine apology again.

Goodness, this cycle of hatred is truly maddening.

30 ( +38 / -8 )

No matter what Japan does, even though they are at fault, this will go on forever.

Korean government enjoys it too much, they're not worried about the women themselves, or they would

have given them money in 1965.

No, it'll never be over, except for the women themselves, when they ultimately die.

31 ( +43 / -12 )

The Japanese government denies it is directly responsible for the wartime abuses, insisting that the victims were recruited by civilians and that the military brothels were commercially operated.

Agreed

-12 ( +16 / -28 )

Perhaps the South Korean government would like to compensate the many UN troops that were killed or injured saving them from the communists?

No? I didn’t think so.

27 ( +41 / -14 )

As they should, but of course Japan will deny anything untoward took place, as usual. Government’s gotta be relieved this will be a bit of a distraction from all their other failures, though.

-14 ( +18 / -32 )

Outrageous, hateful and biased decision. Yet more bullying of Japan. ALL compensation has already been paid. ALL issues have been settled. Japan should summon the SK Ambassador and lodge an official protest.

Unless Moon overrides this ruling, Japan should impose very big trade and tourism sanctions on SK. No more business or tourist visas granted.

7 ( +29 / -22 )

I hope these young koreans have not been brainwashed into hating all things Japanese. Otherwise, this will issue will never be resolved.

21 ( +29 / -8 )

A growing number of Japanese people will hate Koreans, unfortunately.

21 ( +29 / -8 )

I thought they didn't want any money. Which is it? They want it. Then they don't, then yes.

22 ( +31 / -9 )

Why bother! No matter what Japan pays they will comeback and ask for more. It will never stop South Korea sees Japan as some sort of Bank

26 ( +34 / -8 )

Outrageous, hateful and biased decision. Yet more bullying of Japan. ALL compensation has already been paid. ALL issues have been settled. Japan should summon the SK Ambassador and lodge an official protest.

Unless Moon overrides this ruling, Japan should impose very big trade and tourism sanctions on SK. No more business or tourist visas granted.

So the world's third largest economy is being "bullied"., That is 40 years out of date.

So Japan should impose sanctions on SK. Actually SK is ahead ofJapan to this one. They successfully sanctioned Japanese beer.

No more tourist visas. That really would loose Japan a lot of money.

The world got wise to "victim, bullied little Japan", years ago.

Japan now owes compensation money to others and not so able to scam money by playing victim.

-15 ( +12 / -27 )

Tokyo boycotted the proceedings and insists all compensation issues stemming from its colonial rule were settled in a 1965 treaty and linked agreement normalising diplomatic relations between the neighbors.

The 1965 treaty and its subsequent oxymoronic interpretation is just another form of propaganda from the Japanese government to brainwash naive Japanese.

The International Commission of Jurists also holds that, in the case of the Republic of Korea, that the 1965 treaty with Japan relates to reparations paid to the Government and does not include claims of individuals based on damage suffered.

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/commission/country52/53-add1.htm

The Japanese government even acknowledges  the rights of individual claims repeatedly as follows:

"そのため、個人の請求権は日韓請求権・経済協力協定や国内法で消滅したわけではありません。"

https://www.taro.org/2018/11/%E6%97%A5%E9%9F%93%E8%AB%8B%E6%B1%82%E6%A8%A9%E3%83%BB%E7%B5%8C%E6%B8%88%E5%8D%94%E5%8A%9B%E5%8D%94%E5%AE%9A.php

-22 ( +7 / -29 )

$91,000 x 12 not a big price to pay considering that Japan has wasted $16 billion dollars on the Olympics which will never happen.

exactly

-20 ( +10 / -30 )

Wait, I thought both countries agreed to a 'final and irreversible' agreement on this problem.

How can Korea still be going on about it? They didn't just throw away that agreement after making it did they?!

23 ( +34 / -11 )

Tell them to go to hell

17 ( +26 / -9 )

Does the court have the ability to tell another country not under their jurisdiction to do something?

22 ( +24 / -2 )

@Strangerland

Wait, I thought both countries agreed to a 'final and irreversible' agreement on this problem.

How can Korea still be going on about it? They didn't just throw away that agreement after making it did they?!

Most Japanese do not tell the difference between a state-to-state agreement and an individual right. Let's take a simple example: what are you going to do if you heard that both countries agreed to take away your private house without your consent?

-22 ( +5 / -27 )

So you're saying, there never was a "final and irreversible" agreement to end this all?

I could have sworn there was...

21 ( +26 / -5 )

The Japanese phrase "final and irreversible" was also used in the 1965 treatment, but it is just political rhetoric without any legal meaning. Don't be fooled by politicians.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

Ahh, so the Korean reasoning is 'final and irreversible' doesn't actually mean 'final and irreversible'.

It definitely gives perspective to their continued whining no doubt.

17 ( +25 / -8 )

The solution was already provided by Japanese legal experts, which also can be applied in the comfort women issue:

Nippon Steel & Sumitomo Metal should also take the initiative to come to terms with all of the victims of forced labor. From the company’s perspective, this can help build international trust and, in the long term, foster the company’s reputation. Other Japanese companies involved in similar lawsuits in Korea should also start working to find a fundamental resolution based on this ruling, and hopefully the business community as a whole will also support these efforts.

The Japanese government should recognize its own responsibility and thus, support the efforts for a fundamental resolution, rather than preventing Nippon Steel & Sumitomo Metal and others from voluntarily working to resolve the issue.

Once again, we urge Nippon Steel & Sumitomo Metal and the governments of Korea and Japan to recognize that this case is fundamentally a human rights issue, and to work towards a fundamental resolution. At the same time, we also express our resolve to exert our utmost efforts to seek a resolution.

http://justice.skr.jp/estatement.html

-21 ( +5 / -26 )

No amount of money or apologies is enough for the people of Chosen, they always want more. Give'em nothing, this was settled back in 1965!

19 ( +27 / -8 )

I hope these young koreans have not been brainwashed into hating all things Japanese. Otherwise, this will issue will never be resolved.

Ask the children who drew the pictures of Japan being nuked that were displayed in a public train station, or the people setting themselves on fire at protests, breaking into the Japanese embassy, harassing a US diplomat for just having a moustache similar to a Japanese general's, refusing to refuel Japanese cars, or trying to trying to put stickers in classrooms saying “This device was made by a war criminal”. I grew up with my own parents constantly reminding me what Japan did as if it happened yesterday instead of seventy years ago.

22 ( +25 / -3 )

A growing number of Japanese people will hate Koreans, unfortunately.

I’ve come across plenty of hate towards Koreans and Chinese in Japan, and hatred towards Japanese from Chinese and Koreans for decades. I don’t think this will make much difference given this has been going on for as long as I can remember.

The underlying problem is the mindset of the people of these countries is closer than they care to admit.

The narcissism of small differences.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

South Korea doesn't deserve any more money after embezzling money meant for the comfort women last year and lying about consulting the US about scrapping GSOMIA.

They are obsessed with making themselves the victims when in reality, they are hypocrites.

21 ( +25 / -4 )

You're a tenant and you paid your rent to the property management company, who spent it and didn't pay the landlord owner. The owner who hasn't be paid still wants to be paid. Shouldn't he go after the management company?

20 ( +23 / -3 )

Does the court have the ability to tell another country not under their jurisdiction to do something?

It does if you happen to be a member of the European Union... but I guess in this case the Koreans are howling at the Moon.

23 ( +25 / -2 )

They certainly have the right to keep whining even though they agreed to a "final and irreversible" agreement.

15 ( +22 / -7 )

It does if you happen to be a member of the European Union...

Or if you're America telling Britain they have to give you a non-American citizen who is somehow subject to American law...

14 ( +20 / -6 )

Or if you're America telling Britain they have to give you a non-American citizen who is somehow subject to American law...

Or like Japan telling Lebanon to hand over Ghosn. ;-)

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

They're utterly convinced Korean comfort women willingly entered a "social contract" with Japanese soldiers, thus clearing them of any wrongdoing. 

Because trafficked Japanese women are (ahem) willingly entering "social contracts" every day.

-18 ( +4 / -22 )

South Korea needs to grow up and get the giant chip off their shoulder.

I will not be surprised that this goes on for at least another 50 years.

South Korea needs to take a page out the India book, move on.

India was under colonial rule far longer and anyone thinking the British were any better than the Japanese needs to get a history lesson or two.

But instead of whining about the past, India and its people went on to create a proud democratic country, the largest democracy in the world.

Unlike South Korea India never had a coup, never had a dictatorship.

Grow up SK your own people are the ones that settled with Japan it was your own people that ran your country at the time.

Time to own up to your own country's mistakes.

Japan paid is your military junta didn't pass that money along well then that is on you, get the money from the military.

20 ( +24 / -4 )

To all those people who think Japan should pay & apologise , do you really think South Korea will be satisfied & stop there ?

No, It will have exactly the opposite affect.

23 ( +27 / -4 )

But their relations are strained by Japan's early-20th century colonial rule over Korea

You forgot to explain the relations are also strained because

The Japanese government denies it is directly responsible for the wartime abuses, insisting that the victims were recruited by civilians and that the military brothels were commercially operated.

and because Japan has demonstrated repeatedly through its textbooks and other actions that it has zero contrition for its rape of Korea and the rest of East Asia during WWII.

-16 ( +7 / -23 )

Funny how Germany doesn’t have these kinds of problems with the countries it raped during WWII. Wonder why that is. It couldn’t be because Germany expressed and demonstrated contrition and continues to do so, could it?

-18 ( +8 / -26 )

Or if you're America telling Britain they have to give you a non-American citizen who is somehow subject to American law...

That’s called an extradition treaty.

-18 ( +5 / -23 )

Germany still endures claims from Greece and Poland for compensation stemming from issues from WWII

19 ( +21 / -2 )

I see a lot of people don’t appreciate me having pointed out the disparity between Germany and Japan when it comes to facing their actions during WWII. It’s quite funny how you are guaranteed to get downvotes on these threads any time you point out facts that Japan would prefer to have swept under the rug.

-15 ( +8 / -23 )

Or if you're America telling Britain they have to give you a non-American citizen who is somehow subject to American law...

If you reach into any jurisdiction to commit a crime, you become subject to that jurisdiction’s law.

-17 ( +6 / -23 )

So what happened to the 1 billion yen that Japan had already given to those Koreans 6 years ago? This seems like a ploy by the thick skinned Korean prostitutes and their descendants to milk the so called 'comfort women' issue in order to gain more easy money from Japan.

The Japanese govt should say enough is enough, and ignore those Koreans for good. After all, none of the women were kidnapped into prostitution by the IJA or the Japanese govt, but the combination of choosing it at their own free will, or being lured, sold, and tricked into that profession by the civillians, most of whom are their own brethrens, the ethnic Korean agents, just like the South Korean comfort stations serving American troops in the 50's and 60's, I'm pretty sure that nobody had ever kidnapped those women, or are they?

20 ( +24 / -4 )

I see a lot of people don’t appreciate me having pointed out the disparity between Germany and Japan when it comes to facing their actions during WWII. 

Funny how Germany doesn’t have these kinds of problems with the countries it raped during WWII. Wonder why that is.

I see it is funny how some people don't keep up with facts, news, etc...

As recent as last year several German companies have been sued in court in multiple places over WWll related activities.

And more come regularly. So despite the way Germany handled things they to are still involved in more and more demands for compensation and the more they agree to the more the demands multiply.

So there, it make no difference how often Japan apologises, how much Japan pays the demands will keep coming until Japan finally says no permanently.

Germany has paid, paid, paid apologised apologised and apologised and still they are asked for more.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

P. SmithToday  02:42 pm JST

I see a lot of people don’t appreciate me having pointed out the disparity between Germany and Japan when it comes to facing their actions during WWII. 

Germany has never apologized for it's own military prostitution system. So much for the disparity.

"According to records, at least 34,140 European women were forced to serve as prostitutes during the German occupation of their own countries along with female prisoners of concentration camp brothels.[1] In many cases in Eastern Europe, teenage girls and women were kidnapped on the streets of occupied cities during German military and police round ups called łapanka or rafle."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_brothels_in_World_War_II

Repeating this Germany nonsense is getting real old.

16 ( +22 / -6 )

Germany still endures claims from Greece and Poland for compensation stemming from issues from WWII

Exactly, Germany has handled their WW2 past so well that even today they are still being sued by the alleged aggrieved, meaning to this day Germans are still suffering for what happened 80 years ago. Thankfully Japan's approach is not to accommodate fraudsters and the eternally outraged. Tell em to take a hike Japan!

15 ( +21 / -6 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_brothels_in_World_War_II

Gove le ten minutes to create a Wikipedia page to refute your assertion. Wikipedia as a cite! Way, way too sophomoric.

-16 ( +6 / -22 )

P. SmithToday  02:48 pm JST

Or if you're America telling Britain they have to give you a non-American citizen who is somehow subject to American law...

If you reach into any jurisdiction to commit a crime, you become subject to that jurisdiction’s law.

At the time these CW were victimized the entire Korean Peninsula was part of the Japanese Empire and Japanese law applied. In fact during the 1910-1945 colonial period, all Koreans were given Japanese citizenship and were considered subjects of the Emperor like all Japanese.

It was only in 1945 that the Republic of Korea was created. Which, incidentally the DPRK still considers to be an illegitimate regime.

10 ( +18 / -8 )

So what happened to the 1 billion yen that Japan had already given to those Koreans 6 years ago? This seems like a ploy by the thick skinned Korean prostitutes and their descendants to milk the so called 'comfort women' issue in order to gain more easy money from Japan.

The Japanese govt should say enough is enough, and ignore those Koreans for good. After all, none of the women were kidnapped into prostitution by the IJA or the Japanese govt, but the combination of choosing it at their own free will, or being lured, sold, and tricked into that profession by the civillians, most of whom are their own brethrens, the ethnic Korean agents, just like the South Korean comfort stations serving American troops in the 50's and 60's, I'm pretty sure that nobody had ever kidnapped those women, or are they?

@baxter: Spot on mate, best comment today!

17 ( +19 / -2 )

As recent as last year several German companies have been sued in court in multiple places over WWll related activities.

Cites? My Google refuses to unearth info about these suits.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

At the time these CW were victimized the entire Korean Peninsula was part of the Japanese Empire and Japanese law applied. In fact during the 1910-1945 colonial period, all Koreans were given Japanese citizenship and were considered subjects of the Emperor like all Japanese.

And treated like second class citizens. Also, being a citizen does not give the government the right to force you into sexual slavery. I do appreciate your undying, uncritical live of everything Japan.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

SEOUL

A South Korean court on Friday ordered the Japanese government to pay compensation to 12 World War II sex slaves or their families, in an unprecedented ruling likely to infuriate Tokyo.

This is a court's ruling. It has nothing to do with politics and it's politicization only serves to obfuscate the issue.

The article also says

It is the first civilian legal case in South Korea against Tokyo by wartime sex slaves for Japanese troops, who were euphemistically labelled "comfort women".

The first sovereign civilian legal case against Tokyo. No politician is mentioned.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

P. SmithToday  03:28 pm JST

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_brothels_in_World_War_II

Gove le ten minutes to create a Wikipedia page to refute your assertion. Wikipedia as a cite! Way, way too sophomoric.

You obviously have zero experience creating wikipedia pages. The required standards are far higher than you can imagine.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Readers, please keep the discussion focused on Japan and South Korea.

SEOUL

A South Korean court on Friday ordered the Japanese government to pay compensation to 12 World War II sex slaves or their families, in an unprecedented ruling likely to infuriate Tokyo.

This is a court's ruling. It has nothing to do with politics and it's politicization only serves to obfuscate the issue.

The article also says

It is the first civilian legal case in South Korea against Tokyo by wartime sex slaves for Japanese troops, who were euphemistically labelled "comfort women".

The first legal case by individual sovereigns against Tokyo, No politicians....only civilians. Tokyo can comply or challenge the ruling within the judicial system.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Seriously this is still going on?! Obviously 75 years on they are strapped for cash so why not indulge the Japanese government run by the children and grandchildren of the criminals...

11 ( +15 / -4 )

South Korea, despite being protected from North Korea, China and Russia by the United States continues to damage the US-JPN-SK alliance which is necessary to provide that very protection. South Korea's willingness to threaten the termination of GSOMIA, their unwillingness to provide the required export information to remain on Japan's White List, the lighting up by ROK Navy on a JMSDF recon plane, all indicates a concerted effort to undermine U.S. interests in the region. It comes as no surprise that while nearly every country in the regiob is onboard to preserve freedom of navigation through the East and South China Seas, South Korea refuses to participate for fear of provoking North Korea's benefactor; China.

I predict that the days of using Anti-Japan Tribalism as a political tool is going to come to an end in South Korea. It was under the Obama Adminstration that the US implemented the "pivot to Asia" in the face of Chinese expansion. And it was under the Obama Administration that the 2015 "Permanent and Irreversible" Comfort Women Agreement was reached. All while Biden was VP.

On January 20th the Biden Administration will commence and they will be facing a far far bigger Chinese threat than 4 years ago. And Skouth Korea is going to be pressured to start acting like an ally or go join North Korea, which incidentally is still determined to unify the Penninsula under their control. If this fails then obviously there is no point in defending South Korea when they are going to continue to undermine the US ability to do so.

5 ( +15 / -10 )

P. SmithToday  03:34 pm JST

At the time these CW were victimized the entire Korean Peninsula was part of the Japanese Empire and Japanese law applied. In fact during the 1910-1945 colonial period, all Koreans were given Japanese citizenship and were considered subjects of the Emperor like all Japanese.

And treated like second class citizens. Also, being a citizen does not give the government the right to force you into sexual slavery. I do appreciate your undying, uncritical live of everything Japan.

Second Class Citizens do not rise to a rank of Lt General in the IJA.

"Hong continued to demonstrate exceptional ability and was rapidly promoted through the ranks, eventually rising to the rank of lieutenant general. From 1939-1940, he was with the China Expeditionary Army. From 1940-1941, he was assigned to the 1st Depot Division, and in 1941, he became the commander of the IJA 108th Infantry Brigade as a major general. In March 1944, he went to the Philippines to command all prisoner-of-war camps. He was promoted to lieutenant general in October of the same year, and remained in the Philippines under the 14th Area Army until the cessation of hostilities."

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Hong_Sa-ik

3 ( +12 / -9 )

So there, it make no difference how often Japan apologizes, how much Japan pays the demands will keep coming until Japan finally says no permanently.

There is a big difference. Germany has laws about deniers Japan does not. German apologies are real and heart felt. They understand their Country acted in a shameful way and genuinely regret it. ( except right wing extremists). Japan does not.

Germany has paid, paid, paid apologized apologized and apologized and still they are asked for more.

With all the nations and peoples that were effected by Nazi action during the war it may be two or three generations or more before all requests for compensation are filed, taken through courts and settled. The underlying lesson is those who start world wars and inflict untold horrors on peoples of other nations will answer for their actions no matter how long it takes. Complaining about it when your country was one of those responsible gains no respect from those effected. Germany complains little, Japan complains a lot. Big difference.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

I sincerely believe that, this gets like a political game between governments of Japan and South Korea mutually.

Interestingly, S.Korea"s court decision saved the Japanese government with this news, during the worst period of Covid in Japan, and criticisms towards government's incapabilities.

Now again, Japanese central and right-wing public can stick on nationalist feelings, can consolidate around government and stop murmuring about governments policy & measures against covid.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Until Japan honestly and openly acknowledges the heinous war crimes it committed, and addresses them in education, it deserves no respite.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

Good on them. Even if nothing comes of it at least it’s drawing attention to Japan’s war crimes

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

In 2045, they will still be whining about this.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Again, the K-Court crbbs living in the past, cut the drama, this is 21 century, move forward and stop deliring

Will you make the same suggestion when August with the N bombing anniversaries rolls around? Of course not... Because that's different right?

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

huh, these people on the roll AGAIN.

How many times do they even have to whine?

This is starting to get ridiculous.

Japanese government, don't even pay a single yen, it is going to go on for forever.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

marcelitoToday  05:28 pm JST

Again, the K-Court crbbs living in the past, cut the drama, this is 21 century, move forward and stop deliring

Will you make the same suggestion when August with the N bombing anniversaries rolls around? Of course not... Because that's different right?

That it correct it is very different in multiple ways.

The A-bombings were fully documented. before during and after the events.

The A-bomings represent the killing of about 200,000 civilians mabny in horrible ways

-The A-Bomb memlorial ceremony is attended by 93 countries because it represents a global collective hope that nuclear weapond will never again. This includes South Korea attending.

-Civilian NGOs make an issue of the A-bombs every year. The J-govt does not.

-Japan does not use the A-bombs as a diplomatic and political tool against the US or other WWII allies.

In contrast, the comfort Women issue;

-Is based on the 'testimony" of surviving CWs, which have been found to be "not credible" by Prof Ahn of Seoul University.

-Ignores documentation available in the US, interogation of CWs during WWII, interogations of POWs which counter the SK narrative.

-No documentation of the SK narrative has been presented. No records of kidnappings even though the police were Korean. Uses the records of an actual recorded crime in Indonesia as a template for all of Korea despite no evidence.

-Anti-J sentiment is taught in SK schools and used as a diplomatic and political tool by SK government. It permeates the SK judicial system to the extent that a SK prtofessor was prosecuted for going against the narrative.

-SK CW Acivists with tacit backing from the SK Govt are bulding CW monuments in multiple countries which have nothing to do with the issue.

So yea, there's an enormous difference. Hope this helps.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

@sitizen smith....there has been enough "were sorry's"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

None of this is ever about getting actual compensation for victims. It's all political play aimed at stirring up faux-nationalist sentiment in Korea. Why? It's better (from the perspective of the Korean government) to have people angry at Japan than it is to have people angry at the Korean government.

Korean politicians took huge sums in compensation money intended for these victims, and they kept the money to fund their pet projects instead of giving it to the women. That stinks for the victims, and it stinks for Japan.

In this case, the Korean court has no power to force the Japanese government to pay. If the judges were honest about the law, existing treaties would mean that the case had no standing from the start. Everyone knew this, but the case is allowed forward to score political points domestically. Victims are being victimized again because they will never see a yen or won from either Japan or Korea.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

If you reach into any jurisdiction to commit a crime, you become subject to that jurisdiction’s law.

While true on the surface, this does not address the problem in this case. The questions of jurisdiction and standing are important ones. Prior to 1945, no Korean government existed, and there were no Korean laws. Unless you allow for ex post facto application of law, the only jurisdiction under which a suit against the Japanese government could be brought for actions prior to 1945 is a Japanese court. Everyone in Korea was under Japanese law at that time.

If we are going to allow ex post facto application of one nation's laws on other nations, then can Brits sue Italy for the Roman invasion in modern British courts?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

South Korea, you sound like a broken record. Perhaps your younger generations have no idea of the meaning of it.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

What are the penalties for Japan's non-compliance? Will S. Korea snatch the Liancourt Rocks (aka Takeshima) from Japan? Oh wait, it already did.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

GarthgoyleToday  05:17 pm JST

In 2045, they will still be whining about this.

I'm sure you're right about this because the indoctrinations start as soon as their young's could speak.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Going to have to go with Stranger on this one.

1965 agreement was final and all issues settled. S. Korea pocketed the money and stiffed the women. That’s not Japan’s fault.

2015, S. Korea signed, what I consider to be, a pretty bad deal. A pittance for the affected women, BUT the legally elected govt. of the South signed the deal which was final and irreversible.

New govt. gets into power and now they want a better deal? Um, I don’t think so. How would S. Korea feel if Trump said (As he tried to do) “I didn’t sign the US-S. Korean defense pact. I want a better deal.”?

It seems that no matter how liberal or conservative the government, all Korean Presidents share one trait: when in political trouble at home, blame the Japanese.

Ignore this toothless directive.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

For those who seek a balanced approach to this issue from an actual historian, rather than jaundiced views from dubious sources, listen to Dan Carlin’s excellent ‘Hardcore History’ podcast series- ‘Supernova in the East’. Forensic in detail yet eminently listenable.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This issue will never end as Koreans feel very inferior to Japanese.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Japan paid South Korea financial reparations -- which Seoul used to contribute to its transformation into an economic powerhouse 

And yet Korea still clings to developing nation status under WTO rules. Time to grow up.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Compensation has been rendered, this has been a back and fourth issue for decades. Let’s not forget that Korea and China invaded Japan during the samurai times. Wars between these countries has been escalated since the Mongol times.

history

During the middle Kamakura period, Japan suffered from the invasions of the Mongol Empire (Yuan dynasty), which was then dominant on the continent, and its partner kingdom, the Goryeo of Korea. The History of Yuanstates that the Mongol invasions of Japan began with King Chungnyeol of Goryeo "persistently recommending an expedition to the east to Yuan's emperor in order to force Japan to become its vassal state. In order to invade Japan, the Mongols ordered the Korean king to manufacture 1,000 warships.The two Mongol – Korean fleets were destroyed by storms, giving rise to the myth of the Kamikaze, the divine winds that protected Japan. At the time of Mongol invasions of Japan, Japanese people were scared by the attacks of the Mongol and Goryeo army, saying, 'moko kokuri no oni ga kuru (the devils of the Mongol and Goryeo will come)', which phrase later came to represent something scary; thus a tradition spread to the whole country to scare children into obedience by saying 'mukuri kokuri, oni ga kuru'.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

What about the defense of South Korea? Does that count?

Robert Abrams.

The command’s work in Japan is vital to the defense of South Korea since it would help facilitate reinforcements that would head to the peninsula through Japanese ports in an emergency. It also facilitates the missions of warships and aircraft that monitor North Korea’s efforts to evade U.N. sanctions.

“You can’t fight a major engagement in Korea without access through Japan,” Williams said during a recent interview at his office, which shares a building with the USFJ and the 5th Air Force.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japan should pay the money personally I think this is a very big discount considering how many others were involved. Also Japan should make an apology and let the world know that they paid SK so that SK won't continue coming back with the same reason to ask for more compensation. All this should be done with the agreement of once the ransom is paid both countries can move on and try to build better relations with that in the past.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

You obviously have zero experience creating wikipedia pages. The required standards are far higher than you can imagine.

Lmao! You must have a crystal ball; unfortunately, it’s clearly broken.

The A-bombings were fully documented. before during and after the events.

Love how you always hang your hat defending Japan’s rape of Asia on this hook. You do realize that the Japanese government began destroying evidence as soon as they realized they were going to be defeated, correct?

Japan does not use the A-bombs as a diplomatic and political tool against the US or other WWII allies.

Simply because Japan needs those allies.

In contrast, the comfort Women issue;

Let me guess, the list that follows this is sourced from Wikipedia. You must have been indoctrinated in Japanese schools.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

1965 aggrement as Final.

Covered comfort women. Slave labor.

In 2021. The 1965 aggrement Doesn't Cover Anything if you ask the Korean.

2015 aggrement as Final and Irreversible dealing with comfort women only this time.

In 2017 Moon administration in S. Korea backed away, promised more money, new apology.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I'm sure you're right about this because the indoctrinations start as soon as their young's could speak.

As it does in every country, it’s just called education when the speaker agrees with the content.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

South Korea

The only country to receive over 50 apologies from Japan.

The only country to get paid compesation not One time But Multiple Times! from Japan.

South Korea, the only country that depends on American and Japanese support, use of our land, water, resources to save Korea in 1950s during first Korean War. It will happen again in the Next Korean War.

South Koreas wealth, fast and rapid Rise is because of Japanese technology, know how, use of our materials and chemicals.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

At the time these CW were victimized the entire Korean Peninsula was part of the Japanese Empire and Japanese law applied. In fact during the 1910-1945 colonial period, all Koreans were given Japanese citizenship and were considered subjects of the Emperor like all Japanese.

Historically, and up to the present day, Japan seems to have an underlining culture of hostage taking.

Unfortunately, for Japan, orher countries and peoples don't have such a mindset.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Or if you're America telling Britain they have to give you a non-American citizen who is somehow subject to American law...

Or like Japan telling Lebanon to hand over Ghosn. ;-)

Or like Trump making China sell Tik Tok?? LOL

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

-Civilian NGOs make an issue of the A-bombs every year. The J-govt does not.

Japanese PM.s attend the anual memorial ceremony of the A bomb, as they attend, or send offerings to the Yasukuni Shrine. It is political.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

SK most likely kept the money that was suppose to go to the women years ago. Sneaky govt.....

4 ( +5 / -1 )

marcelitoToday  05:28 pm JST

Again, the K-Court crbbs living in the past, cut the drama, this is 21 century, move forward and stop deliring

Will you make the same suggestion when August with the N bombing anniversaries rolls around? Of course not... Because that's different right?

That it correct it is very different in multiple ways.

The A-bombings were fully documented. before during and after the events.

The A-bomings represent the killing of about 200,000 civilians mabny in horrible ways

-The A-Bomb memlorial ceremony is attended by 93 countries because it represents a global collective hope that nuclear weapond will never again. This includes South Korea attending.

-Civilian NGOs make an issue of the A-bombs every year. The J-govt does not.

-Japan does not use the A-bombs as a diplomatic and political tool against the US or other WWII allies.

In contrast, the comfort Women issue;

-Is based on the 'testimony" of surviving CWs, which have been found to be "not credible" by Prof Ahn of Seoul University.

-Ignores documentation available in the US, interogation of CWs during WWII, interogations of POWs which counter the SK narrative.

-No documentation of the SK narrative has been presented. No records of kidnappings even though the police were Korean. Uses the records of an actual recorded crime in Indonesia as a template for all of Korea despite no evidence.

-Anti-J sentiment is taught in SK schools and used as a diplomatic and political tool by SK government. It permeates the SK judicial system to the extent that a SK prtofessor was prosecuted for going against the narrative.

-SK CW Acivists with tacit backing from the SK Govt are bulding CW monuments in multiple countries which have nothing to do with the issue.

So yea, there's an enormous difference. Hope this helps.

@Ossan,

Great response but unfortunately, in order to comprehend your post, it requires some amount of intelligence and the fact that they could not distinguish between the comfort women issue with the A-bomb peace anniversary, you won't be able to educate them any further. They will keep spreading false information and come up with pathetic excuses such as Korea didn't sign any document so the agreement isn't valid.

@Mikeylikesit,

I think even before any talk of standing, res judicata or collateral estoppel should apply since it has been addressed and remedy already been given. The 1965 deal should have taken care of the comfort women which the greedy Korean government used it for creating its infrastructure. To prevent negating the 1965 deal, AWF was established with quasi-government and civilian NGOs trying to compensate the women who did not receive a single won that they were entitled to. Finally, the supposed "final and irreversible deal" to settle the issue was agreed upon and Japan executed its terms for the comfort women. Sure enough, the Koreans arbitrarily broke the agreement and demanded more.

While true on the surface, this does not address the problem in this case. The questions of jurisdiction and standing are important ones. Prior to 1945, no Korean government existed, and there were no Korean laws. Unless you allow for ex post facto application of law, the only jurisdiction under which a suit against the Japanese government could be brought for actions prior to 1945 is a Japanese court. Everyone in Korea was under Japanese law at that time.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The sovereign government is Japan is not subject to the orders of South Korea. Time for all Japanese companies to leave South Korea and time to stop selling anything to them as well.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I think Japan should pay and get it over with until the next round.

How about 100 yen?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The sovereign government is Japan is not subject to the orders of South Korea. Time for all Japanese companies to leave South Korea and time to stop selling anything to them as well.

Good idea. Pleny of other countries will trade with SK. I don't think that Japan will.be missed so much these days.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

In this modern world, with all its difficulties, it is stressful to have this issue raise itself. However, upon reflection the Japanese have apologised and paid cash many times. So, despite their wounds, it seems that the Koreans' should reflect upon why their own government hasn't directed previously paid Japanese compensation to the victims that Japan has twice now acknowledged? Did the Korean government steal it? Is it not now the time to stop playing the victim and grow up?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@sitizen smith....there has been enough "were sorry's"

I’m not disputing that Japan has apologized repeatedly with words; however, each time it does, it immediately undercuts those words with its actions.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

South Korea, the only country that depends on American and Japanese support, use of our land, water, resources to save Korea in 1950s during first Korean War. It will happen again in the Next Korean War.

Japan depends on American support.   The use of Japanese land and water during the Korean War was at the behest of the US and UN, as it would be in any future war.

Manufacturing goods for the IS military during the Korean War gave a huge boost to the Japanese economy, which was still suffering from Japanese total and utter defeat in WWII.

South Koreas wealth, fast and rapid Rise is because of Japanese technology, know how, use of our materials and chemicals.

You’re forgetting the key ingredient of US support. Just like Japan’s fast (no need for rapid as it’s redundant because it means fast) because Japan supplied the US military during the Korean War and the US gave Japan very generous trade agreements.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

People seem to forget that there were also a sizable number of Japanese comfort women. You can’t justify saying that all Japanese were volunteers but all Koreans were forcefully kidnapped, considering the prostitution culture in Korea prevalent at that time. Now, there are records where Japanese polices arrested Korean brokers who tricked some women to enter the industry, so we cannot deny some unfortunate folks had slipped in. After all, it was nearly 80 years ago and some checking standards were different then. This aligns with my question on why this comfort women issue were ignored for 50 years after the war. It’s simply because a sizable number did volunteer because of poverty and people knew about that.

I can understand how Japan made an apology because it does not align with the current standards of human rights. But they aren’t too naive to admit that the kidnapping were done by Japanese military. It’s not being insincere, it just doesn’t align with the records.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I wonder who speaks for the JAPANESE women who were ALSO taken by the fat, psychopathic generals for their heinous purposes and used as sex slaves right next to the Goryeo saram in the same noisome brothels...who speaks for them?

Sandakan Brothel No.8: Journey into the History of Lower-class Japanese Women: Journey into the History of Lower-class Japanese Women by Tomoko Yamazaki and Karen F. Colligan-Taylor | Sep 30, 1998

If you have a gram of decency in your soul, you will not forget this book, but you may learn the true meaning of the term 'silent scream'...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Japan can not pay a yen due to any demand of a South Korean court. If this happened it would set legal precedent that Japan must follow the instructions of a foreign country. When Japan allowed the use of Japanese bases during the Korean war, it was still under Allied occupation.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I’m not disputing that Japan has apologized repeatedly with words; however, each time it does, it immediately undercuts those words with its actions.

This is a major problem, only possible because Japan has never taken on an official stance towards Korea as a nation, only various individual politicians offering their own personal apologies.

Japan has restitution to make. However, my big issue is that they tried a few years ago. I was never a fan of Abe, but his administration made a solid effort to work with Korea to find a resolution to the issue. Together the two countries negotiated a 'final and irreversible' agreement (actual quote, not my embellishment), but then the government in Korea changed, and they refused to ratify the agreement.

Ok, that happens. I get it. But the problem is the new government never proposed a replacement to the original agreement, they just threw the old one away, then started complaining about Japan.

So at this point, the onus is on them to figure out exactly what they want, and propose that to Japan. Japan made a good-faith effort. Korea has not reciprocated. Restitution cannot be made if the Koreans have no interest in it.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@P. SmithJan. 8  10:25 pm JST

I'm sure you're right about this because the indoctrinations start as soon as their young's could speak.

As it does in every country, it’s just called education when the speaker agrees with the content.

Your point being, is that a justification of their present conduct?

Regardless of the past Japanese atrocities during (war), and fast forward to the present, under international law, a sovereign nation can’t be subjected to the rulings of another country’s court.

All claims had been settled by Japan under 1965 agreement over an international body which accompanied the treaty that established diplomatic ties between both governments. In addition, Japan had paid the compensation equivalent of $300 million and extended $200 million in low-interest loans on which the then-struggling South Korea invested the money in industries that eventually helped turn it into what it is now. Furthermore, a “final and irreversible” agreement that came with a personal apology to the women from former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe as well as about $9.3 million for a compensation fund.

In the rule of law this is called "Double Jeopardy". What the Korean Court can do is either dismiss the case or further investigate and sue their corrupt government since their ruling party's lawmaker named Yoon Mee-hyang allegedly embezzled and illegally diverted the fund. This case came to light when a "Surviving Comfort Woman" herself accused the support group for comfort women to which Yoon illegally diverted the government subsidies to, last year.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@Paul14

In this modern world, with all its difficulties, it is stressful to have this issue raise itself. However, upon reflection the Japanese have apologised and paid cash many times.

Any apology that was revoked at any time is not considered as an apology:

https://apjjf.org/-Alexis-Dudden/2368/article.html

The fact is that Japan never paid for their wrongdoings, as they have never officially admitted any wrongdoing or damage to Koreans.

Face the facts.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

SJJan. 8 12:33 pm JST

Most Japanese do not tell the difference between a state-to-state agreement and an individual right. Let's take a simple example: what are you going to do if you heard that both countries agreed to take away your private house without your consent?

First, remember. They've now sunk from commanding companies or individuals to commanding another State.

Second, in that case, I will sue my own State for making such an agreement. However, I will recognize that my State will have to take away my house now, because they have no right to allow internal law to block execution of an international agreement. Maybe they'll be nice enough to hand over compensation quietly.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

*So yea, there's an enormous difference. Hope this helps.*

Nah, not really....same old.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Hmm, in Korea Herald there is a line here...

In this case, the court could seize the property of the Japanese Embassy in Korea or the assets of the Japanese Cultural Center in Korea, although this might not be easy in reality.

Kim Dae-wol, a manager at the House of Sharing, a nursing home south of Seoul for survivors of Japanese military sexual slavery, said, “The grandmothers do not place much meaning on compensation. Because they don’t have much time left to live.” The victims, known as the grandmothers to their supporters, watched Friday’s ruling at the nursing home online in real time.

“Rather than reparations, there is a greater desire for an apology and they hope that the government will inform its people of these things so that there will be no such war crimes in the future.”

Kinda they are not really doing it for the elderly lady, but seizing Japanese embassy's property and Japanese cultural assets in Korea is very fishy indeed.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

marcelitoToday  09:59 am JST

So yea, there's an enormous difference. Hope this helps.

Nah, not really....same old.

Denial of reality. Probably think Trump won. lol

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Alan HarrisonToday  12:01 am JST

-Civilian NGOs make an issue of the A-bombs every year. The J-govt does not.

Japanese PM.s attend the anual memorial ceremony of the A bomb, as they attend, or send offerings to the Yasukuni Shrine. It is political.

They attend along with representatives from 93 other countries who do so of their own choice. It is not political.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Your point being, is that a justification of their present conduct?

My point being that Japan begins indoctrinating it’s people to play the victim of WWII as early as the RoK starts educating it’s people about how it actually was a victim in WWII.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Denial of reality.

Just like your stance regarding Japan’s rape of Asia.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

They attend along with representatives from 93 other countries who do so of their own choice. It is not political.

It’s adorable that you actually believe a prime minister attending such an event is not political.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Second, in that case, I will sue my own State for making such an agreement. However, I will recognize that my State will have to take away my house now, because they have no right to allow internal law to block execution of an international agreement. Maybe they'll be nice enough to hand over compensation quietly.

I guess you can understand spoken Japanese. Listen to what your politicians ask and answer regarding the 1965 treaty.

https://youtu.be/XlZiD0Sua2A

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What foolishness. If the equally dynamic reunited Korea and Japan formed a 'nonfamilial' relationship, that is, free from the juvenile behaviors dominating their relationship, they could stand against anyone else in the world. Instead, like fools, they prefer jealousy and hatred. Here, Japan is guilty, guilty of allowing their native psychopaths to commit unspeakable acts against not only defenseless Korean women but defenseless Japanese women as well. When you argue against Japan's culpability in THIS matter, you argue in favor of the psychopaths. Whatever outrage the Korean People feel in regard to the mistreatment of their women is well deserved and would be an excellent example for Japan to follow in regard to what was also done to Japanese women by those same psychopaths. But, here, Japan SHOUTS its disregard for women and the horrors past Japanese monsters have visited upon them. Give the Korean survivors of this atrocious horror story whatever they want. Japan can NEVER be fully forgiven for its past but it smears filth all over itself again by this meagrely resistance to JUSTICE. This was violent RAPE on a mass scale, Japan. And you say you're not guilty and what has been in the past a slap on the wrist is too harsh? A few pennies more is too much? What kind of people are you? You decide...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Azrul Hakim seizing the Japanese embassy is an act of war. It would mean an end to diplomatic relations. Japan would seize the Korean embassy in Japan in retaliation. It would also mean an end to all direct travel between Japan and Korea and an end to all trade. It will also show the biggest military threat against Japan which is South Korea. The Americans will do nothing to protect Japan from Korea.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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