politics

Sparks fly as U.S. fight over TPP deal begins

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Opponents have already scheduled protests in Washington for November 16, saying that the agreement is “worse than we thought”.

I could say the same of the opponents.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

“The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century… And if we don’t pass this agreement—if America doesn’t write those rules—then countries like China will. And that would only threaten American jobs and workers and undermine American leadership around the world.”

So it's pass the TPP or war with China?

This reminds me of Treasury Secretary Paulson telling Congressmen back in 2008 that there will be martial law in America if they did not pass the bailout for the banks as demanded by the Bush Administration.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

“This trade deal would make it easier for corporations to shut down more factories in the U.S. and ship more jobs to Vietnam and Malaysia where workers are paid pennies an hour,” he said.

What's wrong with that? You will have your work force freed up and available to do more productive work instead. What kind of visionary would want to reserve all the crappy low paying jobs for his own people? Of course you should aim to outsource that and aim to nurture a business environment that'll create demand for better jobs at home.

“The words ‘climate change’ don’t even appear in the text, a dead giveaway that this isn’t a 21st-century trade deal,” said Michael Brine, executive director of the Sierra Club.

Why should they? A free trade deal should ideally be a one-liner that says "there shall be free between X, Y and Z". If you want agreement on non-trade issues you should negotiate those separately.

Appended to the bill to earn support in Congress and from businesses and labor groups was an agreement by the 12 to not manipulate their currencies for trade advantage.

The US led the way in currency manipulation with its 3 QE programs. You'd hope such US politicians will take care of their own backyard first.

These American politicians would be crazy to give up this deal.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

China or the U.S.A.

Is that all the choice we get?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

"if America doesn’t write those rules—then countries like China will. And that would only threaten American jobs and workers and undermine American leadership around the world.”

If true, so what, and though true, why not?

We had enough american leadership around the world'. lousy argument. and what is wrong wth buying chinese? mexican? why not? i like 'em. slowly quality is being implemented more and more. what, a, i now, just by hearing thr catch words chi-mex, suppose to auto conjue up fear and loathing? Really? and last, why do just ameri-jobs matter? wow. the last i looked all parties need cash, all parties are on both sides of the lousy / quality performance line.

who knows, maybe this acronym tpp is crap for valid reasons, i am not really turning over any stones here, and i do like obama for some mystifying reasons, but the above on all counts besides what tpp is, is drivel and, again, silly logic.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

There's no doubt the deal is intended to benefit corporations, and the cautiously supportive conservatives only backs this up. Workers, be they American or Vietnamese, are an afterthought. But as long as we get out butter, right?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

But as long as we get out butter, right?

MrBum, no butter for you!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It doesn't seem like much of an agreement. It seems more like a poop fight to me!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I would write 'another nail in the coffin for the middle class' but it seems more appropriate to write

'another shovel of dirt on the coffin'

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century… And if we don’t pass this agreement—if America doesn’t write those rules—then countries like China will.

Shouldn't this read: The TPP means that American Corporations will write the rules of the road in the 21st century… And if we don’t pass this agreement—if American Corporations don’t write those rules—then Chinese Corporations will.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

So it's pass the TPP or war with China?

Did you even read the quote? No-one said or implied anything about war except you.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How can this be. All the whiners have been telling us for years that this pact will be secret for ever. Now it's all been published. What gives?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The fact that some people are saying that the US will write the rules of the road in the 21st century is more than scary. Shows absolutely no consideration for the rest of the world. Talk about egomaniacal!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If I were the Japanese I quietly sit by and let the U.S. Politicians and Businessmen... make fools of themselves while they greedily fight over their territory and political posturing.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Is that all the choice we get?

Yup!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

will not pass the test

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The fact that some people are saying that the US will write the rules of the road in the 21st century is more than scary. Shows absolutely no consideration for the rest of the world. Talk about egomaniacal!

Actually, it's the opposite, the US cares too much for the world and gives it way too much consideration.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Obama is pushing hard for the TPP, Bernie Sanders is strongly opposing it.

How is the faux news bubble going to spin this? There's no stance that allows hatred of both Obama and Sanders!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

When trade deals are made, would it not make sense to include copy on the rights of workers and the preservation of the environment? I mean...a truly 21st Century trade agreement would have this language, but as always, business interests = government interests. What about the interests of the people who support our lovely, unsustainable capitalist business practices?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

countries can be sued by corporations under a tribunal without recourse for any lost profits. $15/hour? Clean air and water? These are now sue-able. It's such a bad deal it strips away sovereignty of nation after nation.

This isn't a trade deal it's a treason deal

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Is that all the choice we get?

India.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It was to be expected. Every special interest is complaining because they didn't get everything they wanted out of the deal. They are unfamiliar with the concept of "compromise". Now we'll see how much sway the special interests hold over Congress. Congress can approve or defeat the agreement, but they can't modify it (which is what they USUALLY are wont to do). If it's defeated, then either the U.S. will not be a party to the TPP at all, or will have to wait for the next round of negotiations to join in again.

When trade deals are made, would it not make sense to include copy on the rights of workers and the preservation of the environment? I mean...a truly 21st Century trade agreement would have this language, but as always, business interests = government interests.

Can you cite an example where such components exist in "a 21st Century trade agreement" or is this just what you WISH was included in modern trade agreements? By definition, a trade agreement reflects the interests of business and government. That you're complaining about such a basic concept shows your lack of understanding on what a "trade agreement" consists of.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Apparently it is 5000 pages full of convoluted regulations, including the establishment of a whole new bureaucracy with overriding powers, including that to shift the goal posts. And this just had to be passed in an hurry without giving anybody the chance to study it!

If I put on my tinfoil hat, Id say the globalists scored a big success here.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Here's why I love Sanders:

"Now that the text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership has finally been released, it is even worse than I thought. It is clear to me that the proposed agreement is not, nor has it ever been, the gold standard of trade agreements.

"This trade deal would make it easier for corporations to shut down more factories in the U.S. and ship more jobs to Vietnam and Malaysia where workers are paid pennies an hour.

"Outrageously, the proposed agreement includes violators of international human rights, like Brunei, where gays and single mothers can be stoned to death and Malaysia where tens of thousands of immigrant workers in the electronics industry are working as modern day slaves.

"

I will do everything I can to defeat the TPP. We need trade policies in this country that work for the working families of our nation and not just the CEOs of large, multi-national corporations.”

Thank you, Bernie.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

And this just had to be passed in an hurry without giving anybody the chance to study it!

Really? Didn't you just do what you claim wasn't able to be done before it was passed? The agreement isn't even going to be up for vote for at least another three months and Congress may delay the vote longer. Ratchet down your hysteria. Lots of people will have lots of time to study this agreement before it comes to a vote. 5000 pages over 90 days means only 55 pages a day with only ONE person going over the document - and you KNOW there will be many more than one person examining it. By the time this comes to a vote in the U.S., the document will have been studied to death.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

“The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century… And if we don’t pass this agreement—if America doesn’t write those rules—then countries like China will. And that would only threaten American jobs and workers and undermine American leadership around the world.”

But but, i thought this was supposed to help the other TPP members and the global community as a whole?!?! The TPP sounds to me like a last pitch for trying to maintain a hegemony that's facing the inevitable end. Historically, dying empires have done drastic things.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

“This trade deal would make it easier for corporations to shut down more factories in the U.S. and ship more jobs to Vietnam and Malaysia where workers are paid pennies an hour,” he said.

What's wrong with that? You will have your work force freed up and available to do more productive work instead. What kind of visionary would want to reserve all the crappy low paying jobs for his own people? Of course you should aim to outsource that and aim to nurture a business environment that'll create demand for better jobs at home.

FXGAI, you really don't get it do you. You think only "those crappy jobs" will be outsourced. No, pretty soon ALL jobs will go to those who will work cheaper! Period. You say, "so what -- we need to compete!" Yeah, I have two Filipino in-laws here working as ALTs, (pay is only 210,000 and is only for eight months) and they are HAPPY to leave their low-pay hell-hole in the Philippines, whereby you work and might get 30,000 or 50,000 yen a month. Yeah, whatever happened to politicians providing HIGH paying jobs? Helping the security net? I don't need any more enemies, frankly, and the excuse that pedro the Mexican doesn't have social security doesn't mean I should have none, or that I need to compete with Pedro.

“This trade deal would make it easier for corporations to shut down more factories in the U.S. and ship more jobs to Vietnam and Malaysia where workers are paid pennies an hour,” he said.

countries can be sued by corporations under a tribunal without recourse for any lost profits. $15/hour? Clean air and water? These are now sue-able. It's such a bad deal it strips away sovereignty of nation after nation.

This isn't a trade deal it's a treason deal

Bingo. Now businesses want a kind of "socialism" insofar of guaranteed profits, and if our national health care is deemed "uncompetitive" to their rapacious health care "packages" then japan is sued and bye-bye your health care. This means more money to these "America corporations and medical companies" and kiss the Japanese economy bye, as people will have NO substantial money left over to go shopping or buy cars or anything. Now Bassy-funky boy will say, THAT'S OK, it is the only way for---get this--"free markets to work"! LOL lol lol. You repigs kill me. Honestly, the stupidity.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The fact that some people are saying that the US will write the rules of the road in the 21st century is more than scary. Shows absolutely no consideration for the rest of the world. Talk about egomaniacal!

He's only saying that because he's trying to sell it to the American people; he's not trying to sell it to the rest of the world.

The rest of the world don't get to vote on the members of US Congress, who are the ones to decide whether to approve the TPP or not.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

America has not any shame anymore. It shows all its arrogance how it was normal, ignoring the rest of world opinion. Her soft power has been hugely hurt by his arrogant and scary politicians in the latest years. Everyone can see the true colors of this imperialistic country. This TPP logic is awful and it fits totalitarian regimes. At least, it's true that American Empire is dying, and the more they have problems, the more they become openly arrogant. But America destiny is already written, they cannot compete with China.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Again, let me repeat:

He's only saying that because he's trying to sell it to the American people; he's not trying to sell it to the rest of the world.

That's because the rest of the world don't get to vote for the members of US Congress, who are the ones to decide whether to approve the TPP or not.

It's like ya guys can't even tell who he's aiming this realpolitik for. Saying nice things for the rest of the world's consumption won't mean a thing if the US Congress doesn't approve the TPP. So get over the butthurt; it's not ya non-Congress-voting guys he's trying to court.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Here're my car keys, the key to my apartment, the passwords for everything on my computer, my bank account and Post Office account, oh, and I've signed the blank cheque for you, Mr TPP, sir.

I've nothing left to give, but if there's anything else I can do for you, please don't hesitate to let me know.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

the monmouth poll is correct in that mainstream america is not in tune to what the TPP is about- since the TPP is not discussed in mainstream media.

here i see updates on a regular basis in other regional press there are discussions pro's and con's as well

in the US - silence from the press

so if the press- the supposed spokesperson for the common man- is silent- then the people remain ignorant.

this did not make the CNN , MSNBC or Fox websites as a headline story, in fact i could not find any mention of the treaty at all.

shame but an uninformed public means that the bill will pass without any type of look or even knowledge it was negotiated by the people

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So read the Wall Street Journal. It's the largest circulation paper in the country.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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