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Taiwan adds new ships to patrol disputed islands

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Many Japanese right-wing usually defend a closer bond with Taiwan. This is a mistake.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So...what's going to happen when the Taiwan Coast Guard ships run into the China Maritime Surveillance ships?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

issa1

So you would rather China creep closer and closer to Japan instead of salvaging the one relationship that's not terrible in Japan's immediate perimeter?

Let us not forget Taiwan comes to aid every time a disaster strikes Japan - not to mention they are never thanked in fear of retribution from China.

One should look at oneself before calling others "garbage"

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Japan should revise its constitution and double the budget for his army and build their atomic bomb. Japan has been “Sweet” to your neighbors, just japan show their colors and these third-rate invaders will put its tail between its legs and sneak out.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Japan is in terrotorial disputes with every single Asian neighbour.. what's happening here? Is each Japanese claim to various territories totally legit?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Daniel it is not Japans fault the Chinese are so greedy. Yes it was nice the people of Taiwan helped Japan. What is not nice is they are taking sides with the Communists. Taiwan is another country in which Japan should be neutral. Japan should mind our own interests. Getting involved in other countries civil wars is wrong. China and Korea are both in a state of civil war. Oh Daniel all of the countries Japan has disputes are traditional foes of Japan.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Daniel MooreApr. 01, 2013 - 08:09AM JST Japan is in terrotorial disputes with every single Asian neighbour..

Well it depends on how you define neighbor. Japan has no territorial disputes wuth the Phillipines or even with North Korea, And you don't expect Japan to have disputes with non-Asian neighbors do you? Japan's territorial disputes are individually different cases, in contrast to China which incidentally has 17 disputes with it's neighbors, which is deliberately attempting to expand it's territorial control over the entire South ad East China Seas.

what's happening here? Is each Japanese claim to various territories totally legit?

Absolutely- Northern Teritories ((southern Kurikes) were occupied the USSR after Japan surrendered in WWII, For this reason the US, UK and EU consider them Japanes Territory under Russian occupation, Takeshima/Dokdo- Unilaterally claimed by South Korea and occupied (illegally), The US considered South Koreas claim unfounded and urged Japan to fle a complaint immediately. Japan has requested South Korea 3 times to settle the dispute at the ICJ and South Korea continues to refuse. Senkaku Islands - Remained in Japanese control after WWII because it was not taken in war. Doesn't even come up in the Treaty of Shimoseki. Hence returned by the US to Japan in 1972 as part of Okinawa Prefecture, Chinese claim came after oil/gas deposits were found in the late 60s and Chinese maps from the 1950s/60s sow the islands as Japanese. Chinese claims today about owning them since "ancient tines" are lacking in any evidence. What's important here is that Japan, unlike China does not follow a practice of attempting to win disputes by force and harassment, preferring to settle matters through legal means.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

YuriOtani calls China greedy. See how the Japanese distort history! Japan was the greedy one who killed and created false pretences to invadeChina! Thankfully the US dropped 2 bombs, otherwise the Chinese now will be speaking Japanese and so will all of us in South East Asia.. Syonanto will now be the financial capital for Japanese imperialism!

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Daniel it is not Japans fault the Chinese are so greedy.

That's rich. If I recall correctly, wasn't Ryukyu an independent kingdom before it was invaded by some other greedy people?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Yuri I don't see how they are siding with the communists? Don't lump those two together.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh Daniel all of the countries Japan has disputes are traditional foes of Japan.

All of whom became traditional foes of Japan because of Japanese imperialism and aggression.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Fugacis

All of whom became traditional foes of Japan because of Japanese imperialism and aggression.

China is very good at political propaganda. Before the second world war china promoted huge anti-Japanese campain at the united states and europe. Moreover,Japan contradicted interests of Americans, English, Dutch. Maybe if Japan had not fought against the interest of the Anglo-Saxons all Southeast Asian countries were still colonies. Roosevelt hated the Japanese. Pearl Harbor was a trap made by roosevelt to justify a war against japan. Japan continues making the same mistake has 80 years ago, still suck at propaganda. Anyway,losers such as Japan and Germany will always be guilty, this is the price that Japan pay to present day.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

It's interesting that foreigners (Americans, Canadians, Brits, etc) in Japan seem to take Japan's side in these disputes, whereas foreigners in China/Korea/Taiwan each take their residing countrie's sides. Is it possible that bias creeps in?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Japan is about to go berserk now that the last friend in the neighborhood decides to have backbone and stand up against her!

If the PRC ship happen to meet the Taiwanese ship they will probably pretend not to see each other and instead sail closer to the disputed islands, each going to opposite ends to drive the Japanese crazy! Will the Japanese Coast Guard pick and choose the weaker Taiwanese and hose them again with the bigger Japanese ship? I guess this time Japan will show the Taiwanese more respect and just 'wave' to them!

I think Japan will finally realise she is the black sheep in the region and should learn to cooperate instead of being a bad bad boy in the block! Who is your friend now?

I had being saying Japan is more afraid of tiny Taiwan and Okinawa than China and this is about to come true!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Taiwan is smallest claiming nation. Among the chillies, smallest one is the hottest. It can not be under estimated.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@OssanAmerica If you guys want Dokdo/Takeshima that bad, bring it on. We are waiting. Don't go crying to ICJ asking for an external help.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Why nobody claim or occupied Senkakus island before Japan buy and nationalize them. But know making noise when it's not going to make any good.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If Japan transfers sovereignty of these islands to anyone other than the US, I hope it is Taiwan. Just a nice way of saying screw you to China.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Hikozaemon,

These islets are now surely been disputes. Why? Are there some certain reason?

As the most peace-love nation in the world, Japan maybe need to give up them, or how can we be the love peace most country in the world.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Taiwan has a very deep rooted background with japan since that island has been ruling by Japan for 50 years 1895-1945. But even Taiwan cant tolerate japan's aggressiveness and resentment over her arrogance and fisherman bullying! KMT chief Ma Ying-jeou was a student back in 1970s and he was involved the Diayoutai protesting movement!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Germany made no complains to Russia for the Russian annexed their east Prussia due to their war time conducts is the foundation of peace in eastern europe today! Japan shall never learn from the Germans but making endless and resentful disputed claim of islands from China, South Korea and Russia! Now who is the cause of asia's disstability?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Taiwan adds new ships...

When all of your neighbors owned powerful guns, large or jumbo size, can't you purchase a small knife to protect yourselves? No mention to that you ask everyone to peacefully discuss the disputed issue but no body want to listen!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

John MasterApr. 01, 2013 - 11:09AM JST @OssanAmerica If you guys want Dokdo/Takeshima that bad, bring it on. We are waiting. Don't go crying to ICJ >asking for an external help.

Japan is acting in a mature civil manner, that gains the respect of the international community. Civilized mature developed countries settle disputes by the rule of law. South Korea's position on the other hand is exemplified by the level of your comment.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

all these territorial disputes will either be solved diplomatically or retain status quo. see no chance of an all out shooting war. too much to lose economically. however, if it war does happen, does japan really think it can outlast china? china has shown it can stomach millions in casualties/death, as it has experienced in the past (ww2 by japan, cultural revolution by mao, etc). can japan (or u.s. in the remote chance it gets involved) bear seeing millions of body bags? u.s. loss only a few thousand in iraq/afghanistan wars and people are already sick & tired of our involvement.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@OssanAmericaApr. 01, 2013 - 10:18PM JST

John MasterApr. 01, 2013 - 11:09AM JST @OssanAmerica If you guys want Dokdo/Takeshima that bad, bring it on. We are waiting. Don't go crying to ICJ >asking for an external help.

Japan is acting in a mature civil manner, that gains the respect of the international community. Civilized mature developed countries settle disputes by the rule of law. South Korea's position on the other hand is exemplified by the level of your comment.

Delusional thinking. Sorry I don't think anybody buy that! Any proof the international community respect Japan? On the other hand there is proof Japan is fourth biggest liar, so you call that respect?

When somebody got an illegal possession or just kindly put, a disputed possession of Senkaku/Diaoyu islands and is fully armed he can afford to play 'civilized', oops I forgot that obscene water cannon hosing on Taiwanese small boats and sending eight jet fighters against small Chinese propeller plane. Ya, that is call civilize but not in my book!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Delusional thinking. Sorry I don't think anybody buy that! Any proof the international community respect Japan?

In the most recent Pew survey of global opinion, Japan was one of the most respected countries in the world (with the notable exceptions of responses from China and the Koreas). There is ample proof that the international community respects Japan. Japan's respect is certainly higher than that of S. Korea or China. Japan is at or near the top in surveys of global opinion.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@NessieApr. 02, 2013 - 12:50AM JST

Delusional thinking. Sorry I don't think anybody buy that! Any proof the international community respect Japan?

In the most recent Pew survey of global opinion, Japan was one of the most respected countries in the world (with the notable exceptions of responses from China and the Koreas). There is ample proof that the international community respects Japan. Japan's respect is certainly higher than that of S. Korea or China. Japan is at or near the top in surveys of global opinion

Of course recent could be last year before Japan acts 'funny' in the islands disputes and also devalue the Yen and annual whaling all done against international condemnations many quietly of course due to Japan's economic clout. Without providing details with a link to Pew Research there is no way for anybody to know which aspect of Japan the survey refers to.

Is there a question there that ask " Is the Japanese government untrustworthy?" Remember 4th biggest liar nation in the world!

If the survey ask about the Japanese people in general, yes, I agree 100% ! Japanese people are very cultured and nice. That I can affirm from my own interactions with them in business dealings. But if the question is asked about the Japanese government you will not get the same answer!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Remember 4th biggest liar nation in the world!

You just have to shake your head when a certain poster puts more weight on a TV program survey of 100 people with results displayed in 10th of a percentile while almost completely dismissing a Research institute findings.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Tony Ew Mar. 30, 2013 - 08:56AM JST Sorry, I don't live in ancient times and this is not the right article to go into the deep end in the ongoing disputes.. You had already tried to smear me as from China and you did not yet apologize! How many times do I have to say I am Proudly Made In America?, Yes, of Chinese descent, what's the fuss? It is time for Japan to realise this is a multi polar world and should not count on US during crunch time.

If ancient history of the islands in South China Seas are not important for China, then why do China go so back in history to ancient times of 1400's for Senkaku/Daioyu? By the way, the people in the U.S. do not use the word REALISE, rather they use REALIZE with IZE. In many of your other posts, you frequently use common UK and Australian words that are not used in the U.S. I doubt were were born in the U.S. Are you still on the payroll in China?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I think Japan can work with Taiwan.

There's a friendship with Japan & Taiwan and I think they can "Share the Wealth" but NOT CHINA!

No Freak'en Way!

China has a lot to learn when it comes to playing by the Rules of the Road and dropping that God Dam Communist Government and Ushering in a "DEMOCRACY"!!!

China needs to start allowing their people the Right To Vote, therefore, allowing their people "The Right to Choose" their own course into the future for China and not that Silly Despotic Facade Government they call "The People's Congress" - Yea Right, like who Voted for those Tyrants Anyway? The Nazi's?

Peace Out

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan's claims that China didn’t dispute their sovereignty over Senkaku/Daioyu islands until the 1970s, after the oil was discovered. This part is really interesting. Could China’s “motive” be used to discredit them legally or diplomatically? Also, on the time factor, under the customary international law, “a state that fails to contest other states’ assertions of sovereignty over its territory can lose its rights for failure to insist upon them." However, the law isn’t clear as to how much time must pass in order for the invader to claim sovereignty. China’s repeated public assertions that they didn’t recognize Japanese sovereignty would of course cut against this claim; but if in fact they didn’t protest until the 1970s, which is 75 years after the treaty, then perhaps they waited too long? In any case, it looks like Japan is setting up an argument for their sovereignty on several, perhaps cloudy grounds of international law, should this dispute end up in an ICJ.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Until the early 1970's, neither China nor Taiwan expressed objections until the findings of potential oil around Senkaku/Daioyu islands. In the Chinese World Atlas published under Mao Zedong in 1960, the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands were treated as part of Okinawa. Why would the Communist China in 1960 make map like this if they knew it was theirs?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@sfjp330

Will you welcome Taiwan patrolling around the disputed islands? For me I do and I think the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands belongs to Taiwan!"

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Tony Ew

Wheher you are payroll of PRC or US or SK, I do not mind about it. I like your bluntness and heated exchange. That forum has no obligation for using American English or Australian or British English. As far as people understand each other expression. Who cares what other think or insult about you? We are discussing the topic. We are not interested in who you are or where are you from? You may be any nationality or any resident. It has nothing to do with your rights of posting your natural feeling.

If everyone is parroting same propaganda, that forum will lose the freedom of expression and so boring.

Taiwan is the smallest one for that dispute. However it can not be intimidated and threatened. Tony Ew who is an honest poster like Taiwan can not be bullied or smeared.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Flyfalcon

Thank you Flyfalcon for your support!

Teflon Tony & Tough Taiwan cannot be taken down by Tokyo and irrelevant talk!

Go Taiwan Go!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Tony EwApr. 02, 2013 - 09:20AM JST

Japanese always likes irrelevant talk, this is one of their features. When talking about the dispute islets with China, they can always emphasize on the domocracy of China, and all the wars around China.

But which nation has no fault? Japanese are the most peace love nation in the world by protecting all the asia nations from invadeing by China, Abe and Japanese rather than risk their economy and set enemy of China.

Can we find another Great heart than this?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I just read that the Peoples Republic of China is preparing to support the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea in the event of war. So birds of a feather flock tougher. I wonder if the Communists will attack all of us? Whose side is Taiwan going to be on?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

YuriOtaniApr. 02, 2013 - 11:51AM JST

just read that the Peoples Republic of China is preparing to support the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea in the event of war. So birds of a feather flock tougher. I wonder if the Communists will attack all of us? Whose side is Taiwan going to be on?

There is an universal truth: all the people want to attack their enemies. Your question should be is Japan the enemy of China and N.korea? My question here would be Why Japan is the enemy of China and N.korea except the USA?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@ sfjp330

Just to clarify your comment of the 02 April 05.21AM ans 06.05 AM Both ROC and PRC did voice they objection when US handed over the administrative rights of Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands to Japan during the Okinawa Reversion Agreement.

After the WWII under the Treaty of Taipei Japan had surrendered the Senkaku/Diaoyu Isjands to the Republic of China. This had been witnessed by the international communities.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But if the question is asked about the Japanese government you will not get the same answer!

From a 2012 BBC poll (http://www.japanprobe.com/2012/05/16/bbc-global-poll-japan-has-most-positive-influence-in-the-world/)

Japan is seen as having the most positive influence in the world among all countries evaluated, and views have improved slightly since 2011. On average, in the 21 tracking countries surveyed, 58 per cent of respondents hold positive views of Japan’s influence (up from 56% in 2011), and 21 per cent hold negative views (up 1 point from 2011). This very favourable global picture is reflected in the picture by country: out of the 22 countries surveyed in 2012, 20 countries lean positive and only two lean negative (South Korea and China).”

Highlights (http://www.globescan.com/images/images/pressreleases/bbc2012_country_ratings/2012_bbc_country%20rating%20final%20080512.pdf)

Japan is seen as having the most positive influence in the world among all countries evaluated, and views have improved slightly since 2011.

This very favourable global picture is reflected in the picture by country: out of the 22 countries surveyed in 2012, 20 countries lean positive and only two lean negative (South Korea and China)

*Of those who said the Japanese influence in the world is positive, a strong plurality of 47 per cent says it is because of Japan’s economy, products, and services. Twenty-two per cent cite the Japanese traditions and culture. For those holding negative views, the foreign policy of Japan is the most widely-cited reason that explains their negative rating, a view held by 36 per cent. The Japanese economy, products, and services is the second most-cited reason (20%), closely followed by the Japanese traditions and culture, and the way Japan treats its people (both 19%).

And from a 2012 CNN poll

Japan, ranked 12, is the most reputable Asian country. Singapore and Thailand trailed some way behind at 20 and 22.

In other words, Japan is among the most respected countries in the world. It has been whaling for quite some time, so that is not likely to affect the next survey. Territorial disputes are likely to bring downward trends to any countries involved in them, but Japan is and will continue to remain a respected country, thanks to its recent history of pacifism, overseas development assistance and position as Asia's best-functioning democracy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So return the Diaoyus to Taiwan and let Taiwan and China fight it out. Japan can then appear so reasonable to many many Asians. Go Taiwan Go!!! Banzai

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Nessie,

Risking off topic, but here are my thoughts why Japan public perception is good in all those surveys you mentioned:

1 questioning is not precise. There is no question about whether the Japanese government is trustworthy or not in regard to whaling, Senkaku/Diaoyu, Dokkdo, Kurile islands, yen manipulation.

2 I agree completely Japanese people, food, electronics, cars, culture they all give Japan a very favorable perception to anybody including me! I vote everything For Japan except the Japanese government policies and yes, also the deteriorating quality of Japanese cars. My Honda and Mitsubushi cars are semi lemon, futon mattress so so, , not what I expect from Japan!

Back on topic, I support Taiwanese patroling around the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, hope you do too! I wish this complex three party interplay finally get Japan to agree to some kind of sharing deal in oil/gas exploration without actually resolving the island dispute itself as it does not seems to lend itself to any clear cut resolution given US interest in having a buffer island from Okinawa to keep the Chinese military at bay!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

After the WWII under the Treaty of Taipei Japan had surrendered the Senkaku/Diaoyu Isjands to the Republic of China. This had been witnessed by the international communities.

No. The Treaty of Taipei in no way, shape, or form had Japan surrender Senkaku to anybody.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I'm kind of puzzled by the 'Taiwanese' claim, as the pedigree of the current rulers only dates back to 1949 when 2 million people from mainland China swamped the island after the defeat of the Kuomintang Nationalists by the Communists and established 'The Republic of China' (by sidelining the locals). None were 'Taiwanese'. Their claims appear to be tenuous at best - any explanations?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

ularBeast Apr. 03, 2013 - 01:43AM JST I'm kind of puzzled by the 'Taiwanese' claim, as the pedigree of the current rulers only dates back to 1949 when 2 million people from mainland China swamped the island after the defeat

Taiwan was ceded to Japan in the Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895, after the Sino-Japanese war. After WWII, Japan renounced claims to a number of territories and islands including Taiwan in the 1951 Treaty of San Francisco. At the time, Taiwan leader Chiang Kai-shek did not raise the issue, even when the Diaoyu islands were named in the later Okinawa reversion deal, because he depended on the U.S. for support. But under the treaty, the Ryukyu islands that streaches over 1000km came under U.S. adminstration and were then returned to Japan in 1971, under the Okinawa reversion deal. U.S. gave Japan administrative rights to Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. If China and Taiwan has problems with this agreement, they should direct their problems with U.S. who made this agreement.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Thanks sfjp. Reading about Taiwan prior to the Treaty of Shimonoseki, the Qing called it a Province but seemed to have had very little interest in the place and had the view that the 2.5 million Chinese living there really should move back to the mainland - they only got involved there due to wars with the Chinese pirates under Zheng who used the island as a base. Taiwan had also been used as a base for Japanese pirates for a long long time, and European powers as a trading base.

When the Japanese took over the island, the 'renegade' Chinese living there occupied about 45% of the island with the other 55% being occupied by indigenous Taiwanese peoples, and as far as I can see, neither of these groups had any interest at all in the Sengaku's. Post WW2 the locals were heading towards creating an independent state when they were swamped by the KMT and their supporters in 1949 who quickly suppressed local political yearnings and took over the island and have dominated the politics of the island ever since.

How this bunch can now be claiming the Senkakus as well defies any logic as there is no historical basis to the claim, and the only tenuous argument offered seems to be that 'Taiwanese' 'fished there'. The situation with the Senkakus is murky enough without political opportunists from Taiwan muddying the situation further with unsupportable ambit claims.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Taiwan is risking losing support from Japan. Really if China and North Korea do not attack Japan, we should be neutral. Neither one of these fights is our fight. The Senkaku islands belong to Okinawa a part of Japan. The Americans gave Okinawa to Japan, again. So as long as Japan is not directly attacked Article #9 means neutral. Our warlike days are in the past. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Japan gave up Senkaku. Then again it might start a renewal of the Chinese civil war. So that means for the peace we must keep them.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

giving yourself a little to much credit there Yuri. It is precisely that no one is listening and everyone is fanning the flames that nothing is getting resovled.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SecularBeast

How this bunch can now be claiming the Senkakus as well defies any logic as there is no historical basis to the claim, and the only tenuous argument offered seems to be that 'Taiwanese' 'fished there'. The situation with the Senkakus is murky enough without political opportunists from Taiwan muddying the situation further with unsupportable ambit claims.

It is obvious that you have refereed only history books of Japanese. There are fundamentally solid historical facts can be found in free lance Japanese media not controlled by J government.

http://www.tokyoweekender.com/2012/09/senkaku-island-dispute/

In 1885, the Japanese governor of Okinawa, Nishimura Sutezo petitioned the Meiji government to take control of the islands. However, Inoue Kaoru, the Japanese Minister of Foreign Affairs, commented that the islands were near the border of the Qing Empire, and that the islands had already been given Chinese names. Inoue was concerned that if Japan proceeded to erect a landmark stating its claim to the islands, it could stir up a conflict with the Qing Empire.

On January 14th 1895, during the First Sino-Japanese War, Japan incorporated the islands. It was because of Qing unimaginable weakness. Pls refer again to

http://www.tokyoweekender.com/2012/09/senkaku-island-dispute/

There is another logic as you have been away from your backyard for business. Do I have a right to intrude and occupy as you have neglected the garden and claiming as I am a legitimate occupant?

Okinawa was part of Japan before Sino Japanese war. However Senkaku was never part of Okinawa before the war.

Okinawa chain became part of Japan in 1879. Senkaku became part of Japan in 1895. What took it so long for Senkaku becoming part of Okinawa? One factor is long distance from Okinawa chain Island. One factor is Japan is waiting for right moment and valid reason for land grabbing.

It was according http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands

Why were the Senkaku Islands not included in Qing dynasty (1644–1912) maps of "China"

During the Qing dynasty, China was opium addicted and surrendered according demand by foreign powers. That map you mentioned was drawn by foreign powers according their wish.

Even Terra nullus was not Japanese name. Japanese name was not existed until 1895.

In 1870s and 1880s, the English name Pinnacle Islands was used by the British navy for the rocks adjacent to the largest island Uotsuri-shima /Diaoyu Dao (then called Hoa-pin-su, 和平屿, "Peace Island"); Kuba-shima /Huangwei Yu (then called Ti-a-usu); and Taishō-tō/Chiwei Yu.[18] The name "Pinnacle Islands" is used by some as an English-language equivalent to "Senkaku" or "Diaoyu"

It was according http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SenkakuIslandsdispute

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Octagon > There is another logic as you have been away from your backyard for business. Do I have a right to intrude and occupy as you have neglected the garden and claiming as I am a legitimate occupant?

Is it necessary to point out that in your logic you start by stating your desired conclusion (its your property) as the premise (its your garden)? To me it just sounds like you are making your logic fit your emotions, instead of the other way round.

On January 14th 1895, during the First Sino-Japanese War, Japan incorporated the islands. It was because of Qing unimaginable weakness.

Yes that is right. Japan sank most of the Beiyang fleet at the battle of Yalu river. Even though the Beiyang fleet was composed of a large number of modern Western ships so the Chinese should have been able to match the Japanese.

I would guess the reason for the military failure was that the Chinese commanders were letting their emotions decide their logic, instead of the other way around.

If you look at the root cause of human failures, more often than not it is because people allow their emotions, and not their sense of reason, to make the decisions.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Is it necessary to point out that in your logic you start by stating your desired conclusion (its your property) as the premise (its your garden)? To me it just sounds like you are making your logic fit your emotions, instead of the other way round.

So true.

Another fallacy among these posters when addressing Republic of Chinese/People's Republic China's complete absence of asserting ownership during 1945-1970 is that rather using common sense, which is the fact that both states recognized that it was a Japanese territory to begin with and neither had any intention to claim them prior to the discovery of the underwater resources, they resort to the fantasy idea that there was a mass barrier or conpiracy among the world to prevent them from doing so.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Redcliff Apr. 02, 2013 - 02:08PM JST @ sfjp330 Just to clarify your comment of the 02 April 05.21AM ans 06.05 AM Both ROC and PRC did voice they objection when US handed over the administrative rights of Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands to Japan during the Okinawa Reversion Agreement.

After the WWII under the Treaty of Taipei Japan had surrendered the Senkaku/Diaoyu Isjands to the Republic of China. This had been witnessed by the international communities.

Regarding your above questions on Treaty of Taipei of 1952, PRC did not recognize Taiwan and rejected it capacity to conclude legally binding agreements under international law, the PRC considers as well the Treaty of Taipei as void. Basically, PRC rejected this treaty.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Criaig Hicks

I agree with Octogon logic. He has mentioned as backyard. Backyard may be empty space or green land. Even there is no one there, as a neighbor I have no rights to go and park my car. I have no rights to pick up the fruits and flowers from there. Emotion may come from countering of fabricating of real history. China lost the war to Japan in 1895. Therefore Japan got the trophy from 1895. Period! Japan lost the war to Allies in 1945. Surrendered uncondinationlly. Period! US administered until 1972. However there was mess during Nixon admin and handed back to loser of WWII. It has voided the clauses of Taipei treaty. No period!

If US is still administering, I think South China Sea will be calmer and more enjoyable.

nigelboy

Everyone has rights to post their opinion. Unlike others heated exchange, he linked and refer to the historical facts. There was no denying that Japan was an aggressor and intruder back in 19th century. It can not pretend as it has clean hands. In theory, Japan is the landlord right now. However it is a frustrated landlord who is impotent to do any commercial interest. Instead of confrontation, sharing the resorces and joint business venture will be more fruitful for Japan.

Imagine claiming nations share their capital, knowledge and logistic for off shore mining exploration for natural Gas, all are making many billions now. Reality is individual national pride is an illusion. It was promoted by conspiracy and fantasy. Japan has to be more business minded instead of fruitless confrontation.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nathaw | ... Backyard ...

You missed my point which was about the logical construction of the argument; not the content of the argument.

But forget it, logic is boring.

China is the historical center of civilization in East Asia. China ran into a hard time during the transition to the modern era. Perhaps China's previous success was a burden during a period of rapid change. Such a pattern is often seen in human history.

Now China is strong again. China could again become the center of Asian culture, politics, economics, and power.

Is pushing hard on neighborhood high-tension territorial disputes going to help China reach it's manifest destiny? Personally I don't think so.

I really think Japan and China should stop absolutist purist thinking and rhetoric, and work out a solution where resources are shared. It's not worth being petty. There are more important things to work on.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Everyone has rights to post their opinion. Unlike others heated exchange, he linked and refer to the historical facts. There was no denying that Japan was an aggressor and intruder back in 19th century. It can not pretend as it has clean hands. In theory, Japan is the landlord right now. However it is a frustrated landlord who is impotent to do any commercial interest. Instead of confrontation, sharing the resorces and joint business venture will be more fruitful for Japan.

And as CraigHicks had already alluded to, the so-called facts still does not, in no way shape or form, prove China even had effective control of the islands prior to Japan's incorporation. Hence, the analogy is poor. Bringing up what Japan did in the 19th century also, is merely an emotional argument that has very little to do with with the issue at hand.

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Bringing up what Japan did in the 19th century also, is merely an emotional argument that has very little to do with with the issue at hand.

what about what japan did in the 20th century...say 1931 through 1945?

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what about what japan did in the 20th century...say 1931 through 1945?

More emotional BS which has nothing to do with issue at hand.

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nigelboy

In fact, Japan is more emotional for courting the nations adjacent to PRC. For example, Mongoila and Japan! Even Japan is having the hardship at the moment, it has brided and unrecoverable loans to those corrupted nations. Those nations are little influence to outcome of settlement. I can not see why Abe is so emotinal about that dispute. In fact it has existed since he was born.

I support Nathaw logic of all partites settle with commerical joint ventures instead of heated exchange and inflammation. Otherwise Japan is the landlord in name only who is unable to benefit from commercial development. Without the peaceful settlement, Japan will not gain any cent from promoting the fruitless national pride.

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Pls correct the end of first sentence as Mongilia and Myanmar instead of Japan. My apology for error.

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After the WWII under the Treaty of Taipei Japan had surrendered the Senkaku/Diaoyu Isjands to the Republic of China. This had been witnessed by the international communities.

The Senkaku islands are not included in the Treaty of Taipei.

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In fact, Japan is more emotional for courting the nations adjacent to PRC. For example, Mongoila and Japan! Even Japan is having the hardship at the moment, it has brided and unrecoverable loans to those corrupted nations. Those nations are little influence to outcome of settlement. I can not see why Abe is so emotinal about that dispute. In fact it has existed since he was born.

I wouldn't call that emotional. I call it diplomacy.

Sort of like the recent agreement for Japanese government to allow Taiwanese fishing vessels to enter the coastal waters (within 12 nm) of Senkaku.

http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/7566633/

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The Senkaku islands are not included in the Treaty of Taipei.

They're not mentioned in the Treaty of Shimonoseki either. Small islands like the Pescadores on the other hand are explicitly stated in the Treaty of Shimonoseki.

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