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Tens of thousands protest Japan nuclear restart

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Heartening news, people are getting angry, want a say about their lives. The obvious government complicity with the industry is obvious and unacceptable. There is hope, spring is coming...perhaps.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Power to the people! (pun intended)

2 ( +9 / -8 )

Too late, but now then never!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

All we need now is some pro-nuke monkey to tell us that tens of thousands do not represent millions, and all the other Japanese must be indifferent or support nukes since they weren't there.

Then tell us that the protesters were imported from Korea and given beer, onigiri and money to be there.

Just letting you know what crap to expect.

6 ( +8 / -3 )

The current alternative has proven to be more deadly... fossil fuels

-7 ( +5 / -11 )

We are now witnessing unprecedented numbers of everyday people gathering in Japan to take a political stand on two critical themes - economic/fiscal and energy policies. Ironically the tsunami and the tax hike bill has finally brought them out of their otherwise comfortable world of indifference and nihilism. Also has made the points of debate for the soon to come election more clearer than ever can be.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I've scanned all the banners visible in those pictures. Not one has anything to say to about the alternatives to nuclear, which appear to dangerously polluting coal and oil, massive dams, which are also earthquake risks, and wind and solar, which are still too expensive and unreliable. I guess all these people would be happy to go back to cooking with firewood and reading by whale oil lamps. Or perhaps they are happy to have more people die from thermal power station emissions, as long as it isn't their own backyards.

I wonder if Japan could import some elephants to pull the electric trains that these demonstrators ride everyday.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

The banner proclaiming "The Nuclear Era is Over" has small print saying something about "soul power." How does that work? How many kilowatts per soul?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

The very poor "counting" talents of organizers, politicians and media is leaving any reporting on this doubtful. How are we supposed to know what numbers to believe when it ranges from 20,000 to 100,000 ??? Ridiculous.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sad. It way too late and too many of them are scared create civil disobedience. It has to be done together. Of course, it's risky but civil disobedience is a thing to be embraced when the central government is no longer a government by the people, for the people.

As long as the society remains civil and marches down the street, those politicians sitting behind double pane glass will continue to sip tea.

I think the Imperial Palace would be a better place to protest. Get them into the fray.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I'm not an opponent of nuclear power in general, but I am against its use in Japan where the government is the equivalent of a 12 year-old in charge of a gun.

8 ( +9 / -2 )

Truly amazing!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I hope it keeps growing. Keep doubling the turnout each week and even the most brown nosing of media cowards will have to report a large number.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The current alternative has proven to be more deadly... fossil fuels

A conclusion based on assumption! Try telling that to the 200,000 displaced people in Fukushima and the as yet unknown number of people developing cancers due to the fallout from the meltdown. You could then nip over to Russia and tell the people of Chernobyl the same thing. Good luck with that!

I was at the protest last night and there were far more than the 20,000 people quoted by the lying lawmaker has stated. He is just trying to play it down for the public, as the J-Gov has been doing since day-one of the meltdown. Stick it to 'em people! I am sick of their lies and cover ups!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Well done ...keep it coming. Persistence pays off in the end , if the pressure is kept up. Remember that his is how change came to Middle east and Eastern Europe...Once the numbers grow too large there comes a point when politicians can not ignore them anymore. The ball is in the Japanese people's court.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Interesting story. Whether you're for or against it, it's very nice to see people in this country trying to tell the government what they want, rather than the usual vice versa.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

tokyokawasakiJUN. 08, 2012 - 02:51PM JST The general public have no collective spirit or desire to stand up or protest. They are far more concerned about being branded as an outcast (trouble maker) amongst their friends, co-workers, neighbors and family. So they will cowardly sit back, watch, and do nothing.... Safe in the knowledge that they are still liked as a person...this is proof that the nation is weak, cowardly and more concerned with self image.......

I wonder if he/she still believes the nation is weak, cowardly and more concerned with self image…

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Stupid noob question as I am new to Japan, but is there a site that says when and where these protests will be?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Lies and coverups.

Is there a government in the world that doesn't do this?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Glad they are doing this! Unfortunately, it will likely need to get violent before the government even considers opening the window to notice.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Disillusioned. Your response has just made me laugh so much that I'm nearly in tears.

It's a conclusion based on 10s of thousands of hours of research. 200,000 displaced people from Fukushima would equate to the total deaths in the US alone from coal fired power stations in the Last 16 years. There is so much statistical and analytical data out there that for any educated person to make that comment is astounding. The anti nuclear lobby don't use the fossil fuel argument as an alternative to nuclear because it would be a very, very short discussion.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Stupid noob question as I am new to Japan, but is there a site that says when and where these protests will be?

Basically every Friday from 6pm-8pm, outside the prime minister’s office (Tokyo-Metro Kokkaigijidomae station exit3)

http://coalitionagainstnukes.jp/?p=623

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ben,

As per the article: Twitter and Facebook

Basically every Friday afternoon/evening in front of the PM's residence in Tokyo.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

AlanJun. 30, 2012 - 09:47AM JST

The banner proclaiming "The Nuclear Era is Over" has small print saying something about "soul power." How does that work? How many kilowatts per soul?

Lets assume that it is as energy dense as nuclear reactor fuel, or about 8TWh every 27 tons. If a soul is taken to be 7 grams (amount a person is said to lose in weight when they die), then we get about 2000kWh per soul. since Japan uses 1000 TWh a year in electricity, and 25% of that was nuclear, to power 250TWh you would need 125million souls, or pretty much the population of Japan. The devil would be proud.

I doubt people really think though this stuff, without nuclear Japan will never recover from 1990 bubble burst, let alone 3/11. Add to it 10% tax and 40% corporate tax, and companies will leave faster than they originally intended. Add ontop of that an aging population and negative growth and suddenly it doesn't really matter what the side effects of nuclear are, these people's children won't have good lives regardless of their less than 1% chance increase for cancer.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

ItsMeJun. 30, 2012 - 10:00AM JST

The very poor "counting" talents of organizers, politicians and media is leaving any reporting on this doubtful. How are we supposed to know what numbers to believe when it ranges from 20,000 to 100,000 ??? Ridiculous.

Wait for the cops to put out tallies, they will estimate just 10k or so. I'm sure the organizers counted three people for every person on the street, regardless of if they were part of it or just going to work.

-4 ( +3 / -6 )

Organizers estimate 200,000. After looking at photos from IWJ and every media outlet I could find. I think they are probably right. The crowd snaked down two separate streets and a number of side streets.

I don't think people are going to just go home and give up. Not now.

4 ( +4 / -1 )

"The current alternative has proven to be more deadly... fossil fuels"

Spoken like someone without a clue. Germany is showing it can be done, their alternative energy sector is growing like crazy. Alternatives can and do work. There are some very entrenched interests involved in keeping nuclear power and the status quo of huge power companies in place. Just look at who is/was TEPCO's top 10 investors before the govt. got a cut of the action. The big banks.

I hope the next step is for people to boycott. Boycott the big banks that are big shareholders in nuclear power. Cut your power consumption in protest. Consider solar panels an act of rebellion. Don't spend money with any subsidiary of TEPCO or the other nuke companies.

/This message brought to you via wind and hydro power. They produce the large majority of the power where I live in the US.

5 ( +7 / -3 )

The only alternative as in today, not tomorrow. Japan does not have the capability to with to 'green power' tomorrow. Not many are arguing that they shouldn't be moving towards it but it's not going to happen overnight. Germany imports some power from France...

And as you have a clue, you will obviously be aware of the environmental impact not to mention the question as to how renewable wind power is.

Today, Japan'd choices are nuclear, fossil or no power.

Tomorrow their choices should be different ty

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The only alternative as in today, not tomorrow. Japan does not have the capability to with to 'green power' tomorrow. Not many are arguing that they shouldn't be moving towards it but it's not going to happen overnight. Germany imports some power from France...

And as you have a clue, you will obviously be aware of the environmental impact not to mention the question as to how renewable wind power is.

Today, Japan'd choices are nuclear, fossil or no power.

Tomorrow their choices should be different types of renewable but it's not viable now which is surprising how you portray yourself as an expert.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Nancy Foust

This topic has been discussed before but now just one question crossed my mind. Why does not Germany insist that it's neighbour France stop using N-energy?

-5 ( +2 / -6 )

Nancy FoustJun. 30, 2012 - 11:28AM JST

Spoken like someone without a clue. Germany is showing it can be done, their alternative energy sector is growing like crazy.

They also have 20% capacity from solar but just 3% of the actual production. Considering Japan needs 170GW (including 15% reductions) capacity minimum, you are looking at around 900GW installed capacity to meet overall demand. At 58sq km per GW (local professor calculated the average amount needed based on Japan's latitude using current commercial panel technology), you are looking at 52000sq km of panel, which is all of Kyushu and Shikoku combined. But considering Japan has only 11% land that is in any way suitable for development, you are actually talking about covering every square meter of every city, town, farm, road, public park, and untouched forest with panels. Japan simply doesn't have the space. Wind? it requires about 250 sq km per GW and would create a radar blackout of the country, meaning everything from weather reports to airplanes would be useless.

Japan also doesn't have the financial resources to use anything they don't already have. Companies have already said they are shifting production to other countries over raising costs and energy shortage fears, and the country is bankrupt enough that they cannot fund projects that don't raise more money in taxes than they cost. In fact, solar can't even begin to pay itself off until the prices hit 80yen/kWh, or about ten times that of nuclear.

-5 ( +2 / -6 )

I happened to go through the area yesterday.

There sure were many people as there were passers-by. What I noticed however is that there were people with mechanical counters clicking for every person walking by. I walked by two different stations and I was counted twice.

Yes, there were thousands of people protesting but no way even close to 100,000.

-3 ( +4 / -6 )

Gotta luv them peeps who "consistently ignore the problem & downplay the risks."

There are many of them in Japan & abroad with vested interests in keeping the status quo of nuclear power in play.

Massive respect to those demonstrating & exercising their right to free speech. If the Germans managed to turn their backs away from domestic nuclear power generation (by 2020), it can potentially be done in Japan too.

Check these figures out from the "Monitoring Information of Environmental Radioactivity Level" website from the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/map/ja/

Here are some real time readings @ Fukushima (2012年06月30日 01時50分) in μSv/h @ 1 meter above ground.

夫沢三区地区集会所 @ 大熊町 @ 36.306μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 5 km from "The Plant"

小丸多目的集会所 @ 浪江町 @ 27.334μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 10 km from "The Plant"

川房公会堂 @ 南相馬市 @ 2.330μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 25 km from "The Plant"

上野川字境ノくき付近 @ 葛尾村 @ 1.186μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 30 km from "The Plant"

蕨平公民館 @ 飯舘村 @ 5.226μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 50 km from "The Plant"

酒蓋公園 @ 郡山市 @ 1.152μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 55 km from "The Plant"

新山霊園 @ 福島市 @ 1.595μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 60 km from "The Plant"

These figures are high. Pregnant women, children & younger adults should avoid being exposed to such levels of radiation.

On another note, in Japan, I personally use "THE INSPECTOR" to measure the effects of radioactive fallout. This is the "most sensitive pocket Geiger counter available and is a small, handheld, microprocessor-based instrument which offers excellent sensitivity to low levels of alpha, beta, gamma, and x-rays. It was designed for the requirements of emergency response personnel." It costs about $550.

Based upon numerous personal reading with THE INSPECTOR done at heights of 5 cm & 100 cm, parts of Tokyo & other cities outside Fukushima, including Kashiwa, Matsudo & Gunma, are contaminated with varying degrees of radioactive fallout.

To say otherwise is just "ignoring the problem & downplaying the risks."

You can spin this nuclear accident however you want & tweak the effects of it to suit your own or your paymasters agendas to your hearts delight, but readings speak for themselves.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

I think the main problem with nuclear restarts is accountability. All pro-nuke opinion leaders know that when things go bad, it will be a matter of announcing that nobody knew that such an accident will happen.....and everything will be back to normal the next day. The dead and mimed due to the accident will be forgotten as efforts will be shifted to restarts or building new nuclear reactors.

The situation would be different if say opinion leaders who declare restarts sign a letter of confort with the people such that in case of problems, they are held accountable, locked up or punished. This way, these people will think twice before blindly declaring safety and restarts. A politician losing the next election partly because he ordered restarts is not good enough punishment if you consider the effects of a nuclear fallout due to a hurried careless restarts. It is clear that Japan's earthquakes would not make it best location for nuclear plants, and if there was a will, Japan would be ahead with renewables.

-2 ( +5 / -8 )

@ Venlo

Are those readings "counts per minute"?

www.planetinfowars.com "INFOWARS JAPAN" group

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is no time for this anti atomic power nonsense. Japan needs power NOW and even if work started today it would take many years to get done.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Yuri, Japan has been managing just fine without so far...

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The radiation plants are a violation of life, and must be shut down. Now.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

tmarie, that is not true all you see is anti atomic. When the conventional plants need to be brought down for maintenance there will be even a greater shortage and Japan is not doing well. The Big Picture, so what will happen to a deindustrialized Japan? No natural resources and not enough food. What will happen when the money runs out? Oh lastly I bet a lot of that increased radiation was there before the accident. Japanese industry just dumped it. If you do not believe me, would you take a swim in one of the canals in any Japanese city?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The Japanese electorate is the one of the most docile in the world. I hope this cause can shake people out of the fatalistic 'shikata ga nai' nonsense which contributes so much to government complacency and a shrugging acceptance of ineptitude.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

VenloJun. 30, 2012 - 01:00PM JST

>You can spin this nuclear accident however you want & tweak the effects of it to suit your own or your paymasters agendas to your hearts delight, but readings speak for themselves.

The one thing I agree with. http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/html/07B/07212.html Shows all the activity for Minami-Soma, which was the center of attention due to it's large size compared to other towns in the exclusion zone. As you can see, the almost all the readings are more or less indistinguishable from the expected amount.

In fact, the radiation readings everywhere follow the fallout maps quite well in shape, but are actually lower. Most of the radiation readings stop being significant after 5-6 kilometers (readings within 4 kilometers are highly significant but far less than some apocalyptic writers showed, a single point is anomalous due to it's location as a river valley), and will be more than habitable within 50 years. In fact, no city shows averages over .35microSv (3mSv/year, or the worldwide average from natural sources, and roughly the same as the average exposure to medical radiation), just some very small towns in the immediate vicinity to the plant. Nobody ever said there wasn't radiation, simply that the risks and levels are being overplayed. This evacuation never required 120000 people, maybe 20000 at most, of which 10000 would now be able to return home. Just looking at the long term consequences even, a-bomb survivors are expected to have a 1% increased chance in cancer, yet they were exposed to 40 times more radiation than an average person in the 30km ring would get, a number that would increase the cancer rates so little that it would be scientifically impossible to distinguish rates based on exposure. I doubt the protestors even stop to think about history.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

tmarieJun. 30, 2012 - 02:59PM JST

Yuri, Japan has been managing just fine without so far...

Where did you get that information? Several companies have already laid out plans to move productions outside the country for fear of energy shortages, and all the electrical companies have been scrambling to increase residential prices so they can pay their lot customers bonuses for NOT using electricity. If that's not desperation, I do not want to see what it really is. Without nuclear, you might as well kiss everything goodbye, because they will need 50% tax increases every year just to not default. Japan gets most of it's money from companies, and if companies go elsewhere, so does that tax money.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Okay, so the Japanese seem to become more and more united on the issue...

"No more nuclear power" is what they're shouting.

Great. If that's what you want... But then what?

What are the alternatives? Also, how and at what cost to the average taxpayer are those alternatives going to be put into effect?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

More like increasing prices so that they can continue to pay their own staff bonuses I'd say, bas. Cut 20-30% of the redundant, clueless , don't do anything amakudari " management , board members and special consultants" pretenders at the power companies and there would probably be no need to raise prices. In fact , cut that many across the whole nuclear village spectrum along with their budget requests and the do nothing bureaucrats that sign off on them and there would probably be enough money to finance the whole move from nuclear to renewables.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The protest comes on the day, a bipartisan group of 10 law makers who are in favor of reducing nuclear energy, released it's findings on the safety of all the reactors, including the ten most unsafe and the ten most safe reactors.

The organisers of the protest used remote controlled helicopters fitted with camera's to fly over the crowd and take pictures. Looking at those pictures indicates that the size of the crowd was in the many tens of thousands.

This is one helicopter picture taken immediately outside the residence of the PM.

https://p.twimg.com/AwkNzf1CIAAVHtb.jpg:large

Out of the ten worse reactors, 5 are owned by KEPCO, including reactors 1&2 at the Oi plant.

They found the 10 safest reactors are run by three utilities — Kyushu Electric Power Co. (6), Shikoku Electric Power Co. (2) and Hokkaido Electric Power Co. (2). They are the smallest of Japan’s 10 utilities, and their plants are relatively new, and located far from large cities.

Tsuruga is followed by Oi Nos. 1-2, Mihama Nos. 1-3, and Hamaoka Nos. 3-5. Of the worst 10, five are owned by Kansai Electric Power Co., and three by Chubu Electric Power Co., the nation’s second and third largest utilities. The still-operational reactors of Tokyo Electric Power Co., which runs Fukushima Daiichi, came in toward the middle of the rankings. But all Tepco’s reactors were on a second list of facilities the lawmakers thought should be scrapped, based on the risks of future earthquakes or damage done by recent quakes. Tepco’s remaining reactors have all suffered damage from earthquakes in 2007 and 2011.

As of the end of March, the nation’s 10 utilities had a combined net worth of only ¥5.7 trillion. An immediate exit from nuclear power would leave four of them insolvent — Tepco, Tohoku Electric Power Co., Hokkaido Electric and Japan Atomic Power, according to METI.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Me and my husband would like to join this demonstration, when is the next one and where? How do we get news and details about all these! Please inform! Thanks

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Clemens SimonJun. 30, 2012 - 03:57PM JST

What are the alternatives? Also, how and at what cost to the average taxpayer are those alternatives going to be put into effect?

The economically and engineering wise feasible solution is "clean" coal. It will cost approximately the same as nuclear, averaged over the course of the plant life and current fuel costs fixed into the future, including five times the current insurance. The secondary costs are a few hundred extra cases of cancer a year (mainly lung cancer, which is pretty much a death sentence) and several thousand other illness cases. It will also produce several million tons of flyash and other waste over the lifetime of the plants, some of which is radioactive, all of which contains carcinogens and other toxins.

I personally would take nuclear and the miniscule chance for mainly high survivability cancers over coal and the much larger chance of deadly cancers.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

tmarie, that is not true all you see is anti atomic. When the conventional plants need to be brought down for maintenance there will be even a greater shortage and Japan is not doing well. The Big Picture, so what will happen to a deindustrialized Japan? No natural resources and not enough food. What will happen when the money runs out? Oh lastly I bet a lot of that increased radiation was there before the accident. Japanese industry just dumped it. If you do not believe me, would you take a swim in one of the canals in any Japanese city?

Yuri, do you live here? Nope. So you have ZERO idea what I see. You have ZERO idea what is on the news, whom I speak to and what I am exposed to. Obviously it isn't all anti-atomic because if it was, the government wouldn't have okay'd restarting Oi.

Japan is already facing "de-industrialization". This isn't new and many companies were making exits out of Japan long before 3/11. You can thank you wonderful government for that. You can thank the wonderful public for allowing it to happen.

Indeed, I have no problem stating that a lot of the toxic crap in rivers and were there before the accident. This is what happens when the public looks the other way and allows large companies to do what they like. This is what happens when a public election governments in and looks the other way when they abuse the environment all in the name of money. I don't swim in rivers, lakes, ponds and oceans in this country because they are disgusting. 3/11 has nothing to do with that at all. But I can promise you that lakes and rivers in Tohoku are much worse off now than before the accident.

Where did you get that information? Several companies have already laid out plans to move productions outside the country for fear of energy shortages, and all the electrical companies have been scrambling to increase residential prices so they can pay their lot customers bonuses for NOT using electricity. If that's not desperation, I do not want to see what it really is. Without nuclear, you might as well kiss everything goodbye, because they will need 50% tax increases every year just to not default. Japan gets most of it's money from companies, and if companies go elsewhere, so does that tax money.

Have I seen any blackouts? Has anyone been without power so far this year?? Companies who are leaving have long planned to leave. This just offers them a great excuse to exit while the Japanese government can "save face" for their horrific economy.

We can kiss Japan goodbye regardless of the power issue. Problems have been developing for decades and nothing has been done. Blaming 3/11 and TEPCO for the demise of Japan is BS. Indeed, TEPCO certainly has a small part in the blame but the real blame lies with the government for abuse taxes and the system and the public for looking the other way and allowing them to do so.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"The one thing I agree with."

-Basroil, you mean to say, you don't agree with the figures the Japanese government posted about the high levels of radiation found in cities like Iidate, Koriyama & Fukushima City, which are 50-60 km's away from the plant?

-You mean to say that my state of the art, first responder $550 INSPECTOR Geiger counter has not been detecting radioactive fallout in parts of Kashiwa, Matsudo, Tokyo & Gunma?

"http://radioactivity.mext.go.jp/html/07B/07212.html Shows all the activity for Minami-Soma, which was the center of attention due to it's large size compared to other towns in the exclusion zone."

-The map shows radiation readings for ALL OF FUKUSHIMA & beyond @ 1 meter above the ground. There are countless cities with readings registering over 0.5 μSv/h @ 1 meter above the ground. Imagine what they are @ 5cm above the ground.

-I also fail to see how Minami-Soma is the "center of attention due to it's large size compared to other towns in the exclusion zone." Futaba District had 75,000 residents before the disaster & remains evacuated. The radiation levels there are substantially elevated. Minami Soma to the North of Futaba district had roughly 65,000 residents before the disaster.

"As you can see, the almost all the readings are more or less indistinguishable from the expected amount."

Please avoid Doublespeak.

"In fact, the radiation readings everywhere follow the fallout maps quite well in shape, but are actually lower."

-excuse me?

Please tell us, how 27.334 μSv/h is "actually lower" in Namie-machi.

小丸多目的集会所 @ 浪江町 @ 27.334μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 10 km from "The Plant"

Please tell us, how 2.330μSv/h is "actually lower" in Minami-Soma.

川房公会堂 @ 南相馬市 @ 2.330μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 25 km from "The Plant"

Please tell us, how 5.226μSv/h is "actually lower" in Iitate-Mura.

蕨平公民館 @ 飯舘村 @ 5.226μSv/h @ 高さ:100cm @ 50 km from "The Plant"

"Most of the radiation readings stop being significant after 5-6 kilometers (readings within 4 kilometers are highly significant but far less than some apocalyptic writers showed, a single point is anomalous due to it's location as a river valley), and will be more than habitable within 50 years."

-Do tell us, buddy, how much are they paying you ???

"In fact, no city shows averages over .35microSv (3mSv/year, or the worldwide average from natural sources, and roughly the same as the average exposure to medical radiation), just some very small towns in the immediate vicinity to the plant."

-lol. Take a look at the interactive MEXT website again PLEASE. There are over hundred of readings for Fukushima.

"Nobody ever said there wasn't radiation, simply that the risks and levels are being overplayed. This evacuation never required 120000 people, maybe 20000 at most, of which 10000 would now be able to return home.

-Stop wasting out time. More people need to be evacuated, especially pregnant women, children & younger adults in areas registering over 0.5μSv/h @ 1 meter above the ground.

"Just looking at the long term consequences even, a-bomb survivors are expected to have a 1% increased chance in cancer, yet they were exposed to 40 times more radiation than an average person in the 30km ring would get, a number that would increase the cancer rates so little that it would be scientifically impossible to distinguish rates based on exposure."

-Japan Today's August 26th, 2011 feature said that the equivalent of 168 a-bombs were released by the explosions @ Daichi. According to your statistic, wouldn't that be 1% multiplied by 168 ?

Basroil, you are clearly guilty of "ignoring the problem & downplaying the risks."

But do keep it up; it's highly amusing to see you "spin"

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

**What are the alternatives? Also, how and at what cost to the average taxpayer are those alternatives going to be put into effect?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.**

Wind, solar, thermal? How about stopping the protectionism on solar panels, allow more companies to sell them here, watch the prices fall and watch the number of buyers go up? How about demanding places like pachinko pay more for their power since they are huge abusers of it? The same goes for companies, schools, residential areas leave waste power - classrooms with AC on, light on, no one in them. Store with AC on and doors open. I'm more than happy to pay for someone to "police" this or perhaps, raise the prices so damn high in comparison to square meters and area of buildings and watch the saving begin.

You think anyone here wants to eat tainted cake? I don't. I am sure those in Fukushima don't either.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

basroil and tmarie,

Thanks for replying. Alternatives of "new" sources and ways to save energy already being consumed...

I guess what I was going for is what would happen if those two (and perhaps additional) reactors were to remain shut off? Where would Japan get its IMMEDIATE electricity from? Not 2 or 5 years down the road, but this summer, this winter and next year. Is Japan able to support itself energy-wise without those nuclear reactors? I know they have been switched off and it seems that nothing has changed, but is this really the situation?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This summer hasn't been a problem yet, has it? I would rather rolling black outs and companies go back to working on sat/Sun (which did affect me personally) than restarting Oi.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This summer hasn't been a problem yet, has it?

True, but the worst (heat) is yet to come?

Isn't Japan using up its reserves as we speak? Also, I've heard that additional energy is being bought at high prices. Both of these can surely not continue for a very long time?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Michelin Guides should give businesses an "energy conservation rating" showing how much energy they are conserving based on current vs previous energy consumption. Then people can choose to frequent businesses that don't waste energy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

VenloJun. 30, 2012 - 05:26PM JST

-You mean to say that my state of the art, first responder $550 INSPECTOR Geiger counter has not been detecting radioactive fallout in parts of Kashiwa, Matsudo, Tokyo & Gunma?

Did you measure before Fukushima? Do you know the type of radiation? I would suggest you get a professional scintillator if you are so worried about fallout. You'll be able to compare the source map against known Fukushima sources. A simple geiger counter can tell you how much radiation there is, but not what it is. For all you know, there's an old cobalt-60 medical capsule in your back yard and you just mistake it for fallout. Until you can post properly obtained readings (ISO has some good standards on reading radiation) from before and after Fukushima, I cannot tell you if you have any valid points as you have failed to prove your ability to properly use your instruments (like most protestors). Besides, according to old MEXT information (before Fukushima), the average combined hourly radiation was about 0.425 microSv/hour, which is higher than any point in Minami-Soma.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

tmarieJun. 30, 2012 - 05:51PM JST

This summer hasn't been a problem yet, has it? I would rather rolling black outs and companies go back to working on sat/Sun (which did affect me personally) than restarting Oi.

Summer hasn't even started yet, usually it's the last week of July and the first two of August that are the issues. Here in Sapporo it's as hot as Osaka region, and that's not something that's normal for summer (Osaka averages 33 degrees during summer compared to just 28 right now). Interestingly, KEPCO's Monday estimated power use is 2230MW, or about 95% of today's power and 87% of what they should be able to get Monday.

While you don't care about rolling blackouts and working on weekends, companies do. Especially manufacturing. If they were to have to re-deploy their entire system due to blackouts, they will go somewhere else and leave you without a job (as well as thousands of others). I think a lack of job will harm you hundreds of times more so than nuclear.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

INFOWARSJAPANJun. 30, 2012 - 06:38PM JST

Michelin Guides should give businesses an "energy conservation rating" showing how much energy they are conserving based on current vs previous energy consumption.

How would you propose that? An internet based company needs a small amount for servers, a steel mill requires MW worth. A lawyer requires nothing. So what if the lawyer takes just 2kWh a client while the steel mill needs 200kWh? Which is more efficient? (hint, that's less energy than you need to bend steel rods for a large order)

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Basroil, you consistently fail to actually address my individual sentences.

You only talk PAST me & go off on your own conjecture-based tangents.

Please try to debate my sentences, piece by piece & respond accordingly.

Are you able to do this?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Power to the people! and these demonstrators are saying that it does not mean nuclear power

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Venlo,

More people need to be evacuated, especially pregnant women, children & younger adults in areas registering over 0.5μSv/h @ 1 meter above the ground.

First of all, I’m not your enemy. I’m neither pro/anti-nuke. I don’t have enough knowledge yet to choose. I’m just trying to learn things here.

I just want to know why you say people especially pregnant women, children and younger adults in areas registering over 0.5microSv/h @1m above the ground need to be evacuated. What would 0.5microSv/h do to those people? What about adults? Are adults safe? If so, why?

I understand the radiation level in Denver, Colorado is around 0.6microSv/h all the time. According to U.S. NRC "Currently Denver, Colorado is reading 0.64microSv/hr (4:00pm MST 4/10/11). People residing in Colorado are exposed to more natural radiation than residents of the east or west coast because Colorado has more cosmic radiation at a higher altitude and more terrestrial radiation from soils enriched in naturally occurring uranium. Although Colorado has the highest average background radiation levels in the US, the state has some of the lowest cancer incidence and death rates in the country, around 10% below national levels." (the exact link is no longer available. I provide the closest link. )

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/bio-effects-radiation.html

The population of Denver is around 600,000. I’m sure there are pregnant women, children, young adults living there. Do you think they should be evacuated?

The recent news said 1.22microSv/h radiation was found in Mizumoto Park, Katsushika-ku Tokyo. The group of people こどもと区民を放射能から守る葛飾連絡会 found it and their website says “Stay away from there. It’s dangerous.” I was wondering how dangerous it is, but they didn’t say anything why or how. With a help from other JT posters, I found out that 1.22microSv/h=10.693milliSv/y that is the same level as Guarapari (Brazil) which is a well-known tourist destination, known for its curving white sand beaches, whose population is 101,116 (2005) This high level of radiation does not seem to have caused ill effects on the residents of the area (Wikipedia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarapari

So basically, if you are standing at one of 9 places in Mizumoto Park for 24/7 for 1 year, you get same amount of radiation from living in a beach town Guarapari, Brazil. Do you think MIzumoto Park is dangerous? Do you think 101,116 residents of Guarapari should be evacuated?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Stay on topic please. Brazil and Colorado are not relevant to this discussion.

Hey Blair, that's some serious homework! Good work. Please keep it up!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

One point I see, and sometimes my own comments attract are from the pro nuke trolls, when they don't agree with some statement they'll use the "but that person isn't an expert?" even though he might be a university professor, which indicates some level of education and intelligence.

Another point, frequently used by the pro nuke trolls, is that matters of nuclear energy and NPP's should be decided by nuclear experts and not left to the public to decide, of which according to some polls, 70% want an end or a reduction in the use of nuclear energy.

Anyway, the situation to restart the two Oi reactors was taken by PM Noda, even though his head atomic man, Dr. Haruki Madarame had stated "the reactor stress tests won't assure the safety of the reactors." I don't think it's normal for the PM to give permission to start a reactor, maybe this is the first time it has happened? PM Noda, to my knowledge does not have any kind of nuclear experience or atomic safety at the NPP's. I'm not even sure, PM Noda has even attended training drills.

I don't think PM Noda has even visited the Oi NPP to check out what is happening there. I think if I was PM I would want to visit before giving my permission for a reactor start, especially since my political future would rest on that decision?

I have been reading about alarms going off on the No3 Oi reactor, I think five in all, and all not on the nuclear side of the reactor. The latest one being an alarm sounded when an electrical switchgear failed. When it was inspected it had water inside of it, from an overhead leaking roof, and the rubber seal around the switchgear door failed and allowed water to enter. I know from my days has an electrical engineer that if water gets into a major switchgear it can cause a fire. I don't know the voltage used at the Oi plant, but at Fukushima, it's 600 volts.

The NPP's have been closed down for months, some for more than a year, so the plant owners have had plenty of time to check out every piece of essential equipment and plant, and anyway, NPP's are expensive complex plants which cost the taxpayer billions in subsidies but a problem can be  caused because of failed rubber seal on a switchgear panel.

Even has back as the 1960's we were doing something called planned maintenance, which basically means, every piece of equipment and plant is checked at least once every year, but usually, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly. So with planned maintenance the failed rubber seal would have been discovered and replaced.

I was shocked by what happened at Fukushima because until then I had always assumed atomic power plants would have the highest standards of everything. But it didn't and the world's second largest nuclear disaster happened. It was also shocking when I understood how easy it would have been to avoid a nuclear disaster had the highest standards been used.

18 months down the road and I start to understand that the Fukushima NPP had many safety features which are lacking at other NPP's like the Oi plant. It had emergency backup generators but one of the main reasons for the nuclear disaster, was that those generators were located below sea level and in a non water tight room. The Oi plant didn't even have emergency backup generators until the plant owners bought in some mobile trucks with generators. The Fukushima plant had an offsite emergency control room which was earthquake and radiation proof. At the Oi plant there wasn't an offsite emergency control room. The plant owners have now taken over some disused building and turned it into an emergency control center, but it's not earthquake or radiation proof, and the inside looks more like some computer schools, with computers on desks and white boards. If power was lost, along with mobile phones and internet, I'm sure how it would continue to operate.

The plant owners have agreed to build an emergency control center, but will take five years.

Today, Jul.1, probably KEPCO will fire up it's No3 Oi reactor, the first since all the country's reactors went into shut down on May 5, a day I remember, because it was also the day Liverpool FC lost to Chelsea FC in the British FA Cup final.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Very disappointed that you would use the word 'troll' to describe the pro-nuclear side. Troll doesn't mean someone who disagrees with you but someone out to cause offence. Most unlike you.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ahhh yes, the traditional facts/corroborating evidence results in a warning from the moderator as off topic.

95% of the posts on this thread are off topic because they don't discuss the march but criticising nuclear is 'in topic' defending it is off topic.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A group of protestors have chained themselves to the Oi plant gates.

http://ex-skf.blogspot.jp/2012/06/protest-on-going-for-10-hours-in-front.html

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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