Tokyo to host 2-day TPP talks from Monday

Let see how long does Abe continue to fool Japanese people. Instead of put Japan first, Abe uses TPP to show his virtual leadership. Japan shouldn't be involved in the TPP in the first place.

Japan shouldn't be involved in the TPP in the first place.

Why not?

 Abe uses TPP to show his virtual leadership

Well Japan is the biggest economy left in the TPP, makes sense for them to take on a leadership role.

I don't know the in's and out's of the agreement. I've heard horror stories about it and good stories about it. But I do like the idea that its the only agreement of its type which can also draw in countries from South America.

I understand Indonesia and China are interested in joining. I'm fine with the former, but the later is a mistake. This should be an agreement that presents an alternative to RCEP.

Not so much a trade agreement as that should be a fairly simple action, it's more a reduction of citizens rights and an agreement to allow companies, vested interests to control a vast array of things legally.

I am actually surprise not to see France in the TPP list. She has a lot of territory just in the middle of the trade zone.

It is strange.

I am actually surprise not to see France in the TPP list. She has a lot of territory just in the middle of the trade zone.

It is strange.

French Polynesia? All going independent now aren't they. New Caledonia holding a referendum soon.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41857692

You need to be very careful your former territory does not become part of China's expansion plans in the South Pacific. Referendum is a mistake imo.

China joined. With absence of USA ad China joining, we have to wait each country's wish list. Rice will be big topic.

France is European. TPP members prefer Canadaa that never colonized region. Beside that Canadians are veery bderstandable of Asian independence mind.

Matt Hartwell, why not ? because it is stupid. Just look how many years already wasted. Japan's economy under Abe's arrow is flat tire, TPP is not going to inflate it. Abe just doesn't get it. Japan's economy is tied with China's economy. Abe is a biggest loser to fail the Northeast Asia integration. He wasted time being the longest PM. The only success Abe had was to build barriers among neighbors.

I am actually surprise not to see France in the TPP list. because EU member countries cant negotiate trade deals separately only as a group. As Trump couldn't understand when German chancellor stated to him.

it's more a reduction of citizens rights

No, it will work the other way by requiring countries that lack legal systems to get their acts together, which will raise standards in those countries. It will require countries that have problems producing exports with human exploitation (like the Thai slave fishing ships) or inadequate labor laws to aggressively fights these problems and raise standards. Think about it if these less developed countries are pushed to develop their legal systems the prices of their exports will go up and it will be good for job markets for countries like the USA.

Abe is a biggest loser to fail the Northeast Asia integration. 

Still plenty of trade goes on between all the North East Asian countries. Japan is doing well out of its Chinese trade.

But the fact remains. China is an authoritarian dictatorship and increasingly so. Its the USSR of the 21st century imo. I don't see why a liberal democracy like Japan would want to "integrate" with such a country. Keep them at arms length is the best policy. There is no need to do anything more than that.

Matt Hartwell, China has more freedom than Japan. In Japan, we can't say certain things. We have to pretend everything is fine. There is no problem for Japan to be integrated with China, may become a part of China one day, hopefully. We don't hate China, we will never do, as China will do the same to us, no hate. Democracy never means superior, nor animosity. We are human and we share the same DNAs and we don't want to be divided by whatever reasons. We are fine, thank you.

China has more freedom than Japan. In Japan, we can't say certain things

LOL Are you serious? Sorry but that's really, really delusional. To compare China & Japan on these terms and actually think China is better in terms of freedom of speech. Its a country in which you can simply disappear if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person or comment online. Spend years in jail, aren't allowed to see your family, take part in a fake trial in which the conviction rate is 99%, because its a puppet court and if you're really unlucky, well you can simply die in jail.

Honestly, I am starting to think your CCP agent.

There is no problem for Japan to be integrated with China, may become a part of China one day, hopefully

The number of Japanese that wan't this to happen would be incredibly low I imagine. Again, delusional.

We don't hate China, we will never do, as China will do the same to us, no hate

You really think they LOVE you do you. Might want to spend a few years in the Chinese education system to find out how much hatred they spit out towards Japan for what Japan did pre WW2. If they love you so much, why don't they just let you have the Senkaku islands without all the fuss?

Like I said, CCP sleeper agent imo.

Matt Hartwell, If China is that bad, why China can develop so fast ? Faster than any nations on the planet ? If you are so freedom loving democratic valued Australian, why can't you give some your freedom to people like me ? As for integration with China, is it our constitutional right if majority Japanese agree ? Show me your proof that China educates their people to hate Japanese for what Japan did to them during WW2. As for Senkakus, it is territorial dispute and there are so many disbutes like this one in the world. Japan and China had many disputes in the past but that doesn't stop Japan and China being good neighbors.

Japan is doing well out of its Chinese trade.

In this region Japan is still king when it comes to industrial technology. China hardly has any compared to US/EU/JP.

Keep them at arms length is the best policy.

Japan is doing a lot to share their technology with China.

If China is that bad, why China can develop so fast ? Faster than any nations on the planet ?

That easy to answer. China came from a situation in which the majority of its population lived in dire poverty. They are still in a process of bringing those people out of poverty and industrializing the country. They are quite far down that path now obviously, but they still don't rival Japan in some areas in terms of exports. Take cars for instance.

Japan on the other hand has already been down that road. That's what happened after WW2. Don't forget that Japan was the biggest Asian tiger in the 1980's and 1990's. It was the power player in the region and enjoyed the sort of growth levels China is now enjoying.

If you are so freedom loving democratic valued Australian, why can't you give some your freedom to people like me ?

Not sure what you mean by that. You probably have the same level of freedoms we have in this country. I don't see too many Japanese running around saying they are repressed by the government. Im sure it happens but pretty rare. Maybe because it isn't China.

As for integration with China, is it our constitutional right if majority Japanese agree 

You can integrate if you like. I think the chances of it happening and succeeding are a billion to one. Japan has a very unique, proud culture. I sincerely doubt that most Japanese would be comfortable losing that. Even if you had a large degree of autonomy initially from Beijing. Only have to look at what happened to Hong Kong to see what direction it would end up going, ie - complete mainland Chinese control. That's the direction Hong Kong is heading in. Hong Kong was already successful before Beijing came along. A lot of Hong Kong people now complain bitterly about real estate and jobs and competing with those from the mainland. No doubt that would be the same fate for many Japanese in Japan if integration happened. It was be a disaster for Japanese culture almost certainly.

Show me your proof that China educates their people to hate Japanese for what Japan did to them during WW2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_China

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1139759,00.html

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/09/21/chinas-brainwashed-youth/

They have actually made movies in very recent times which are explicitly designed to get Chinese people to remember what Japan did in early twentieth century, like the Nanjing massacre for example, which is, I realize, debated by many Japanese but my point is that they actively inflame that hostile sentiment.

it is territorial dispute and there are so many disbutes like this one in the world. Japan and China had many disputes in the past but that doesn't stop Japan and China being good neighbors.

Sure and that's exactly what they should be, if possible, good neighbors.

One will notice that Japan's nearby neighbors, South Korea, Taiwan and China did not join TPP as they have huge trade deficits in there favor - with trade barriers to restrict imports - such as Japan's many hidden trade barriers.

If this Australian Matt Hartwell hates China so much, why would he ask his Turnbull to cut ties with China ? Abe isn't his PM and he is barking up the wrong tree. Everyone knows that Japan is much closer to China than to Australia. Abe should stop fooling people around saying that Australia is the closest. I don't think Abe has the freedom to speak out the truth.

such as Japan's many hidden trade barriers

such as? I just checked and an American Tesla is the exact same price as in the US- with exchange rate. And Man! Look at all those cheap electronics you can find on Amazon Japan and other online stores. They are the same price and sometimes even cheaper than what's offered at its US counterpart.

Personally, I think Canada, Australia and New Zealand should pull out of the TPP. They can form their own Union, CANZUK, and then start to negociate trade deals as one block. I would think that they would have more influence that way.

nishikat, Tesla- are we talking about apples and oranges? Apparently some are not aware of Japan's high taxes with many levels of tax on processed food, beef, and other agricultural products such as wheat, as well as softline and hardline products. For people that are not business owners, many do not know about hidden trade barriers that greatly drive up the cost of the product. These hidden trade barriers are more detrimental to free trade than the high taxes themselves.

Ray Payne-

Thought you might be interested in this link..

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Japan-Trade-Barriers

many levels of tax on processed food, beef, and other agricultural products 

Blame Trump. He dumped TPP which was going to take are of that. And who cares about cheese. I'm talking about heavy industry items (steel, heavy machinery, solar panels) and electronics which come in at a big ZERO on tariffs.

And Cheese? Really? Again, you want cheap American cheese in Japan tell Trump to reinstate TPP.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Japan-Trade-Barriers

No specifics. Just whining. German car sales are up. American car companies can't even put the steering wheel on correct side. Is that Japan's fault? I'm not defending one country over the other. Just the facts.

hidden trade barriers

More like imaginary trade barriers

New Zealand should pull out of the TPP

They helped start it

No specifics. Just whining.

Proof that you NEVER read the links offered to you. If you did you would have seen this:

For additional information on Japan-specific trade barriers see the most recent National Trade Estimates Report available on the United States Trade Representative Website.

Their link is on the page whose link I provided above.

German car sales are up. American car companies can't even put the steering wheel on correct side. Is that Japan's fault?

No. The following is:

While tariffs are generally low, Japan does have some non-tariff barriers that may impact commercial activity by possibly impeding or delaying the importation of foreign products into Japan. Although competition, U.S. and other foreign government pressure and other factors, have lessened the impact of these impediments, U.S. companies may still encounter non-tariff barriers in the following areas:

Standards unique to Japan (formal, informal, de facto, or otherwise);

A requirement in some sectors or projects for companies to demonstrate prior experience in Japan, effectively shutting out new entrants in the market;

Official regulations that favor domestically-produced products and discriminate against foreign products;

Licensing powers in the hands of industry associations with limited membership, strong market influence, and the ability to control information and operate without oversight;

Cross stock holding and interconnection of business interests among Japanese companies that disadvantage suppliers outside the traditional business group;

Cartels (both formal and informal); and

The cultural importance of personal relationships in Japan and the reluctance to break or modify business relationships.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Japan-Trade-Barriers

Again- please read the links provided to you.

I'm not defending one country over the other. Just the facts.

You are defending them. If not, read what your government has to say on it and read the links properly.

New Zealand should pull out of the TPP

They helped start it

When they started it, neither the US nor Japan were in it.

If this Australian Matt Hartwell hates China so much, why would he ask his Turnbull to cut ties with China ? Abe isn't his PM and he is barking up the wrong tree. Everyone knows that Japan is much closer to China than to Australia. Abe should stop fooling people around saying that Australia is the closest. I don't think Abe has the freedom to speak out the truth.

I should be more explicit in my criticism. I don't hate Chinese people as individual people or even China as a country, but I do intensely dislike Chinese authoritarianism and nationalism as it challenges individual human freedom and their particular brand of nationalism is used to stoke anti-Western bias and hatred.

Furthermore, they have attempted, successfully in some instances to use Chinese students as a tool in our university system to overturn freedom of expression in what should be the most open arena of discussion available. I also have very little time for people, politicians and business elite in this country that tolerate CCP activities here.

I don't think we should cut ties, but we need to have far better systems in place to ensure those Chinese that come here fully embrace Western liberal democratic traditions and leave behind their CCP indoctrination.

Official regulations that favor domestically-produced products

Vague and wrong (and I did read it). Proof (with specific example): Trump is whining about the cheap Chinese import solar panels. Is Japan? No, in fact you are free to order the cheaper (and just as reliable) solar panels for your made-to-order house and the Japanese government is doing nothing about it (so far). Come on! China can do it. China succeeded in the Japan market with solar panels. What is the US whining about (other than cheese)? China sells their cheap solar panels to Japan while Japan sells their high-tech steel to China (15% of Japan's steel exports). That's trade. Cheese is a joke (and is Trump's fault anyway with no TPP) What that website states is just whiny Trump propaganda that says nothing. China as succeeded in selling a product with Standards unique to Japan fine. What is the US complaining about? That website is just Trump propaganda with no specific examples- and wrong about Solar panels and many other things. Trump and his voters thinks every country in the world is out to get the USA.

Now about that complaint regarding cheese. Cheese? Did someone say cheese?

When they started it, neither the US nor Japan were in it.

A lot of Trump voters think that Obama wrote TPP.

China has more freedom than Japan. In Japan, we can't say certain things.

Akie, this is a patently false statement. On every indicator, such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, political freedom, economic freedom, religious freedom, and many more, Japan is freer than China. That is not to say that Japan is perfect of course, but let's not entertain the delusion that China is more free than Japan.

I gave a specific example that refutes the website's rambling. A specific product. Solar panels. Please be specific about what industrial products Japan restricts. What products? You want cheese then Trump needs to reinstate TPP. This is on American politics. One more example. In the early day of the iPhone the system in Japan was not compatible. But changed. It refutes (again) that website that say Japan has these invisible barriers. You want cheese and sausage then implement TPP.

"For people that are not business owners, many do not know about hidden trade barriers"

What business owners? Be specific. If you know these people tell them to come here and state their case. I want to hear their stories about their specific products.

By the way, if you are SERIOUS about researching protectionism and are not here trolling and talking about things you don't understand then please the most recent National Trade Estimates Report available on the United States Trade Representative Website.

same link as before

https://www.export.gov/article?id=Japan-Trade-Barriers

THIS TIME, go to the link and click on United States Trade Representative Website.

They break it down by country and in alphabetical order. You have to scroll down and find Japan. It is a long read, but very comprehensive. And since you are howling about specifics, it doesn't get any more specific than that. It goes through EVERY industry- cars, produce, etc. lists them specifically and with extreme detail.

So now, the onus is on you. I have provided you with a link that should answer all your questions. Read it first and feel free to counter with any fact you take issue with. But read the report first. It is time consuming but you are the one who asked for details.

Here's a different report http://www.americanautocouncil.org/sites/aapc2016/files/Japans%2BProtected%2BAuto%2BMarket.pdftalking about Japan's automotive protectionism

Cars.

Be more specific. Zero tariffs. It's not the Japanese govt's problem to sell American cars. When someday cheap electric cars are made in China Japan will not do anything to block them. It's just Trump rhetoric. Electric cars will kill the car business as we know it anyway- globally. That amounts to 20% of Japan exports what will eventually be gone.

chinese devaluation of the Yuan

Trump no longer declares that. So it's not true. Besides:

Standards unique to Japan (formal, informal, de facto, or otherwise);

They sure succeeded that. They passed these "standards unique to Japan" so it's not just about cost. And so the Japanese consumer has spoken. They want cheap solar panels and the government is not stopping them.

about produce

TPP, go back to Trump. And you can get a lot of import food cheaper than the Japanese version. Which produce is a problem for you? I'm sorry you are so upset about cheese. I feel I can get enough imported cheese in Japan- but that's just me. But others you just can't please. I guess if anyone is a real cheese fanatic Japan is not the place to be. Maybe France is better?

That's BS.

No, it's not. The first iPhone had 3G connectivity and Japan didn't have it. They (Japan) changed to that standard. Apple worked hard and got the rewards. There was no barrier.