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U.S. backs Japan as China tensions soar over air zone

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"..Tokyo’s conservative government in rare unison with South Korea and Taiwan." China, making friends with everybody.

"“When we fly into this aerial zone, we will not register a flight plan, we will not identify our transponder, our radio frequency and our logo. Those are the four things the Chinese have publicly said are a requirement,” Pentagon spokesman Colonel Steve Warren told reporters."

I really think the PLA hotheads have gone too far and underestimated the United States. Nations which have done so have historically ended up regretting having held that view.

15 ( +22 / -7 )

Japan should have nuclear weapons

-12 ( +11 / -23 )

Many other nations, including Japan, have declared ADIZs. There is nothing inherently problematic with announcing one, indeed, it would be surprising if China never did so. The key issue is how China defines, patrols and invokes its ADIZ. Here, there are already problematic signs, and Chinese officials have chosen thus far to deny rather than acknowledge them.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The PRC has painted itself into a tiny corner that will be very hard for it to escape from without getting wet.

The PRC has 3 choices here, back-up it's threat and try to intimidate Japan and the US, back-off and look weak or try and let the whole thing die out.

I think their hotheads in charge will go with option 1 and try to intimidate Japan and the US. When this blows up in their face and a war breaks out they will cry a river and claim to be the victims.

Their actions remind me of the actions of North Korea irrational, childish and antiquated.

Only a matter of time before the PRC breaks out into full blown civil war, history always repeats itself.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

A smart move by China, this ADIZ really makes both Japan and the US jumping up and down. Who cares about Japan or the US when other countries including S.Korea already complied. According to CNN, “By declaring territorial baselines around the islands, increasing the number and length of its law enforcement patrols, and introducing military forces in the vicinity, China has challenged Japan's de facto control of the area and moved to solidify its own claims.” Who now dares say Japan still has effective control over the islands? China is now establishing its own track record of administration over the islands. What would be Japan next move besides yelling foul?

-20 ( +5 / -24 )

Just wait until they announce their revised ADIZ in the South China Sea and it won't be just Japan, South Korea, Taiwan pissed off at China, it'll also be ASEAN members like the Philippines, Vietnam, and possibly even Malaysia. You know it's coming...

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Only a matter of time before the PRC breaks out into full blown civil war, history always repeats itself.

I have said it numerous times, China will implode and split up just like all the XXX-stans after the ex-soviet block. I thought it might happen within 5 years, but now it looks like it may happen next year.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

China's declaration which overlaps Japan's and South Korea's ADIZ is a violation of international law. They better not enforce it. I hate China's brash attitude.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

flowers Nov. 26, 2013 - 08:25AM JST China has challenged Japan's de facto control of the area and moved to solidify its own claims.” Who now dares say Japan still has effective control over the islands?

China didn’t specify what measures it might take if others don’t cooperate with its rules. If disgust and resentment are felt around the world when China speaks out, then the more China speaks, the worse the outcome will be. That merely brandishing hard power in the form of military might and shrill unilateral pronouncements will ultimately not serve Chinese interests.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I saw a map of the zone this morning. Even more disturbing than the Senkaku issue is the fact - so far little mentioned - that the zone bumps right up against the Ryukyu Chain and Kyushu. This is an attempt at area denial of everything west of Japan.

I don't see how the Chinese cannot but try to enforce it now that they have declared it. Nor do I see how Japan and the U.S. Can allow such a brazenly aggressive move to be allowed to stand. Dangerous times indeed.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Japan should have nuclear weapons

-5 ( +8 / -12 )

Too many boys with toys having a pissing war to demarcate their territory. Back it up a step or two and share those rocks and the resources around them. Or better yet, declare the area an environmental zone and leave it be. This type of gamesmanship only emboldens right wing politicians and provides profits to military contractors that could be better used solving important social problems in all countries.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

It seems that dispute is no longer these islands and larger air defence zone which China made for its military control. Two islands (Kubajima and Taishojima) of Senkakus still belong to the US for daily military drills. Chinese jetfighters might shoot down the US aircrafts or Japanese ones over the air space.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

United States, please dont be a busy body. idiot poeple.

-24 ( +3 / -27 )

China declares ADIZ, everybody jumps but when Japan declares EEZ, few in the West pays attention. In 1978, Japan and China to agree to shelve the Senkaku/Daioyu island issue. However, in 1996 Japan declared an EEZ around the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands causing further escalation of dispute with China. Why did Japan declared EEZ in a disputed area in 1996 to piss off China?

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Yep, people sure have come a long way towards maturity and understanding. Seriously, this is a very unnecessary move by China. I don't think the US want to budge in, but I am sure that, if pushed far enough, they will. And that will not be pretty.

5 ( +7 / -3 )

I did forget to mention that the establishment of ADIZ was announced by the China Ministry of National Defense. The Defense Ministry does not hold control or the right to command authority for the People's Liberation Army which is under the umbrella of the Central Military Commission.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Did China seriously think that the U.S was going to just sit by and let things run it's course? Since this new air space also partially overlaps with Korea's airspace, it would seem that all China is doing is uniting Korea and Japan to brace themselves for the big storm coming ahead. That storm of course is China.

7 ( +7 / -1 )

The US and the West made a great mistake, growing China's economy, thus also growing their military and their nationalism, thinking wrongly at that time that a prosperous China will be good for the world. Boy were they wrong. And the US is making the same mistake again, supporting Japan's military growth and growing Japanese uber nationalism. These two big mistakes are going to tear Asia apart, and may lead to confrontations. I trust neither China or Japan, they have their past records as proof. Both of them have unreasonably huge areas of air defense zone and EEZ claims. It's simply ludicrous why they're allowed to get away with this, especially Japan who are given a blank check just because they're US allies.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

You know you are doing something right when the aggressors raucously screaming and shouting at you but yet can't do anything at all.

All thanks to Shintaro Ishihara for waking China up and give their military a new sense of purpose.

That old fool still think China will just lay down and take all the punches from Japan like before.

Not anymore.

China have the will and power to protect itself now.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Please start the war after the christmas season, thank you

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

chucky3176Nov. 26, 2013 - 09:44AM JST The US and the West made a great mistake, growing China's economy, thus also growing their military and their >nationalism, thinking wrongly at that time that a prosperous China will be good for the world. Boy were they wrong.

Yup we were all wrong. And South Korea is guilty as sin on that front as well.

And the US is making the same mistake again, supporting Japan's military growth and growing Japanese uber >nationalism.

Good start but that's plain stupid. Chinese, and even Korean nationalism far outstrips Japanese nationalism. Japan is one of te few countries that's had a deficiency of nationalism for the last 70 years. It took China coming out of the "peaceful rise" closet to wake them up.

These two big mistakes are going to tear Asia apart, and may lead to confrontations. I trust neither China or Japan, >they have their past records as proof. Both of them have unreasonably huge areas of air defense zone and EEZ >claims. It's simply ludicrous why they're allowed to get away with this, especially Japan who are given a blank check >just because they're US allies.

Let's see... South Korea adopts the anti-Japan policy and coddles up to China. China draws an ADIZ that overlaps the KADIZ. South Korea hates Japan and loves China, while China support the one country that has continued to kill South Koreans since 1951. As I said before Chucky, this article is about the Chinese ADIZ which South Korea is complaining about. Any comments on that subject?

0 ( +7 / -5 )

OssanAmericaNov. 26, 2013 - 10:00AM JST Yup we were all wrong. And South Korea is guilty as sin on that front as well.

When Japan depends on China for 21 percent of their GDP, you have guaranteed a problem. What is Japan going to do about the 20,000 companies in mainland China if their is a minor skirmish in the East China Seas and Chinese goverment decides to freeze their bank account? It might happen.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Take this to UN vote to condemn China even if it vetoes. Then move strip China of permanent member status, and repeat that process untill succeed.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

sfjp330Nov. 26, 2013 - 10:11AM JST OssanAmericaNov. 26, 2013 - 10:00AM JST Yup we were all wrong. And South Korea is guilty as sin on that front as >well. When Japan depends on China for 21 percent of their GDP, you have guaranteed a problem. What is Japan going to >do about the 20,000 companies in mainland China if their is a minor skirmish in the East China Seas and Chinese >goverment decides to freeze their bank account? It might happen.

If a skirmish occurs all parties will have to deal with it. Considering the U.S. position that we will not recognize China's ADIZ or it's requirements, China should be prepared to have their assets frozen as well, that includes all US securities and debt instruments. Have you any idea how much that is?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

America's support for Japan will only last as long as it's in America's interests. If (and it's a big if) the Chinese economy continues to grow, and she becomes a genuine trading superpower, then it will be in America's economic interests to keep China onside, and Japan will be left to defend herself.

Look at American support for Saudi Arabia. An evil, despotic regime but with something America wants, so anything goes.

Japan needs allies in Asia, and should start mending fences fast.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Japan needs allies in Asia, and should start mending fences fast.

What fences are there for mending? To the Japanese government, Japan's actions were righteous during WW2. It courageously fought off the European countries in asia. As a matter of fact, Japan's government thinks it was the real victim because they got nuked.

/s

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Good start but that's plain stupid. Chinese, and even Korean nationalism far outstrips Japanese nationalism. Japan is one of te few countries that's had a deficiency of nationalism for the last 70 years. It took China coming out of the "peaceful rise" closet to wake them up.

Korean nationalism has no real territorial expansionism or ambition. Its territories are small and Korea has never attacked any country in the history of its existence. I would say Japanese nationalism now outstrips South Korean, judging by the stuff that's been going on in Japan in the last three years. ns to take Takeshima by force.

Let's see... South Korea adopts the anti-Japan policy and coddles up to China. China draws an ADIZ that overlaps the KADIZ. South Korea hates Japan and loves China, while China support the one country that has continued to kill South Koreans since 1951. As I said before Chucky, this article is about the Chinese ADIZ which South Korea is complaining about. Any comments on that subject?

How did South Korea adopt anti-Japan policy when China drew up the ADIZ? South Korea support China? lol... How does South Korea support China? South Korea is pragmatic, it only wants what's best for Korea, and Korea knows how important China is to S.Korea economically - they're not going to jeopardize that over some lousy few km of airspace which could easily be negotiated over. Japan on the other hand is way overreacting. It's probably because China is a convenient scapegoat to blame all of Japan's current problems on. If Japan feels so strongly, forget the military retaliations which will harm third party countries who have nothing to do with this squabble, and pull all your investments out of China and stop doing business with them. Oh that's right, Japan can't do that because that would just about wipe out Japan economically. But they better be prepared for the worst if this thing turns into war.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Sorry, the USA and Japan are great friends. So China does not like this?? TOO BAD!! South Korea also needs USA and the way CHINA is trying to force its Asian neighbors, well they will very, very soon turn against CHINA and what will CHINA get?? Nothing but HATRED because for thousands of years it has been trying to push around the rest of Asia. Nothing new folks, the Chinese have been playing these games for the longest times, but now they are screwed because with the INTERNET, etc..we all know what they are trying to do. Time for the whole world to boycott CHINA and do it ASAP!! This is the only thing that Beijing understands, it is $$$$$$$$$$!!!!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Wow, in the face of American hostility in Asia and the rest of the world, I think China should not back down. Love how this America colonel says he's not going to change anything, just shows the ignorance of their people.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Japan needs allies in Asia, and should start mending fences fast.

And they do. It's the usual "three" that keeps on beating the same drum.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I would love to read some rational explanation from the PRC paid posters here as to why they think their bosses are victims in all this when it is the PRC that makes nuclear war threats?

The PRC "Water Internet Army" has their tap dancing shoes on. As usual they take out their latest TPMs and begin their rants about how they are the victim in all this. Love the way you guys get mad when things don't go the way you think they should go.

Tiger_In_The_HermitageNov. 26, 2013 - 10:46AM JST Wow, in the face of American hostility in Asia and the rest of the world, I think China should not back down. Love how this America colonel says he's not going to change anything, just shows the ignorance of their people.

So, if the US doesn't buckle under the PRC's threats you folks call them ignorant, interesting.

ne-tigerNov. 26, 2013 - 11:03AM JST It's funny all these self claimed Americans here talking and behaving just like Japanese right wing nuts. It shows their IQ and intelligence. No wander Japan is screwed.

So, in other words you have no way to argue your point so you do the second best, act childish and blame others.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

One more US-Japan joint training over those island?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So America are getting more vocal with their support for Japan. A good thing too. It's one thing to say you'll stick up for an ally, and another altogether to actually prove it. America is starting to do that. China seriously needs to rethink its ADIZ, retract it to avoid overlapping the Senkakus, and avoid overlapping other ADIZ in the region. They're provoking too many countries. Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, the Phillipines. China's backing itself into a corner. With the US weighing in on Japan's side, things look bad for the big red cockroach. All it will take is for Russia to side with Japan as well, and China will find itself completely enclosed, with only the despotic North Korea as a possible ally. Emphasis on possible. When it comes down to it, China doesn't have any allies left. It believes itself to be too big, too powerful to need allies. One big bully can't overpower twenty weaker kids. Strength in numbers, and in unity. China should just quit while it's ahead, before it loses any more face.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Chinese bluffing again, the only thing they're good at

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I will vote to Abe-like PM of Japan in the future, the one who can turn Japan into a military Juggernaut.

Increase the range of missiles from 200-km to 2,500-km.

Increase the 22-diesel-electric submarines to 48 and also build more STERLING PRUPOSION SUBMARINE from 1 experimental to 12 combat units.

Increase the 300 fighter jets (F15, F2, F4J) to 500 units.

Convert the 40,000 tons of nuclear spent uranium into several nuclear bombs specifically bound for China.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

This is actually a good move because now USA has declared publicly they will ignore and flaunt communist China unilateral directive. This is finally communist China's defacto declaration of war, as they must attack US military aircraft that ignore the air zone directive, or, risk acknowledging their directives and authority are meaningless.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@thywillbedone

Not that simple. There's plenty China can do (scrambling their fighters, locking on radar, firing warning shots) without actually attacking anything. They're in this for the long game.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This is superficial conclusion. Japan and USA will always be ROCK SOLID allies, especially now. What you call "dependance" is not working. Japan and USA are now JOINED AT THE HIP. If you say Japan is dependent on USA, USA is equally dependent on it's unsinkable aircraft carrier Japan.

Also, Free Chinese are now starting to speak up against communist China. It is good all around. The removal of ambiguity is good. China has declared war finally on the USA. Now, we can deal with it decisively and actively.

Ultimately, a free China is on the horizon.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If China foolishly attacks aircraft within this arbitrary zone, or even outside it, the repercussions on an international level will, sooner or later, lead to the government's doom. It's only trade that prevents it from declared a pariah state that does not hesitate to use force, internally against its own citizens, and externally against it's neighbours.

There will be sanctions and embargoes. China will finally be treated as it so richly deserves. And all of this is before any military retribution takes place.

On that note, nobody will try to invade China. Bases will be taken out as will key infrastructure. The government can heroically hide in bunkers because they may well be be prime targets too. Then again, it also makes good sense to expose them as the incompetent ninnies that they are. I thinks it time that the Allies appeal to the people because the government is obviously more interested in looking after themselves than thinking of their own people's welfare. Anybody familiar with the current atmosphere in China knows that there is a segment of the population that are aware the government is trying to stave off a revolution by making other countries a scapegoat. And they openly display their distaste of the government on forums, etc.. Let's hope things keep moving in this direction.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The United States on Monday joined ally Japan in vowing not to recognize China’s declaration of an air defense zone

US backed. US joined. US supported. All words are the music for my ear. I do not take them seriously. My memory went back to Hainan Island incident of 2001. There was a dispute about air defense zone declared by PRC from US. I remember the bombardment of bias posters from both pro US and pro PRC. Interestingly all of them are old and grey now. They are no longer in their prime. Their hatred posts have evaporated as steam.

Back then US air crew were detained by PRC. US demanded immediate release. Senator John McCain demanded PRC apology. PRC did not. However US did not use force and waited patiently for their release. US many not recognize PRC air zone. However all commercial airlines do not take risk and have identified their air route to PRC.

Peace comes from compromise and patience. Not from confrontation. Imagine US flied missiles over PRC, there will be no release of air crew and PRC missiles will fly over US too. It is a lose lose confrontation.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

This gonna be a good opportunity for left winger Japanese to wake up

3 ( +4 / -1 )

China just doing exactly what Japan did.

Let's take the island Ieodo which South Korea administers. South Korea declared its air defense zone in the 1950's, but Japan totally ignored it. Since Korea at that time was very weak, they couldn't do much when Japan in 1969, declared their own adz, which incorporated the skies over Ieodo, and overlapping much of what Korea declared first. To avoid conflict, SK has up to now, alerted the Japan airforce each time. South Korea since 1969, has asked Japan 10 times to sit down for talks, but Japan ignores them. I have learned all this from the Korean papers today, of what's going on between Japan and China, and from the Korean perspective, both of them are acting pretty much like thugs. The only difference is that Japan has been acting like that for decades now, and now they cry and whine when someone else does the same to them. Short of it all, now that both of them (China and Japan) are staking claims, any time Koreans approach Ieodo, they have to ask both Japan and China to avoid military conflict. How ludicrous it is to be sometimes, a neighbor of both of these countries.

Update: Korea today told the Chinese, Koreans will not respect China's claims and will continue to fly military aircrafts in that area, as usual. But they also told the Chinese they are opened to talks. A nice firm respectful non-hysterical reaction to China, something that Japan may also should try.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

DEAR ALL JAPNESS FRIENDS I found it is very strange, why all Japness friends here alway talk about US. do you really want US to be involved. look into the history, Korea war, Vietnam war, these are wars berween china and US , happened afterwards?

i believe most of poster here donot have enough political wisedom to imagine the outcome for possible war between US and CHIAN over Japan, but i believe you all have life wisedom and experience .

do you have any memory if a small boy involved in 2 big guys fighting, what will heppen to the small boy at the end? does the small boy will get something? or will lose everything?

think about ir

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

To Chinese people here:

Why do you stick to this government? We often chage our governments to make the country a better place. You don't want to vote? You don't want freedom of speech? You don't want better daily lives?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

America is not interested with getting into another confrontation, especially with its largest creditor. America can make as much reassurances as it wants but it is Japan's backsides that will be spanked when serious trouble really begins. Respect China's air rights as all other countries have been respecting the one created by the U.S. and other countries. To refuse to respect it means that all air rights until today are not valid nor need to be recognized.

When will all these stop? When Abe is hung up to dry in the Japanese sun.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Let's take the island Ieodo which South Korea administers. South Korea declared its air defense zone in the 1950's, but Japan totally ignored it.

U.S. forces set the KADIZ in the break of Korean War. They set them so the zone is more centered towards the North where Chinese forces were advancing. Japan had nothing to do with it.

Japan in 1969, declared their own adz, which incorporated the skies over Ieodo, and overlapping much of what Korea declared first.

No it did not. It merely covered what KADIZ did not cover.

South Korea since 1969, has asked Japan 10 times to sit down for talks, but Japan ignores them.

According to Chosun Ilbo, Korean government asked in 1979 and 1983. Japan rejected on the basis that it compromises their defence capabilities.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

'If Japan sends warplanes to -intercept- China s jet fighters, Beijing s armed forces will be bound to adopt defensive emergency measures' - Global Times

Right, so it is possible to just ignore the Chinese calls. Or one could answer their call, give them the information they want and then politely ask them to leave Japanese air space. That would technically prevent aggravation of the Chinese air zone procedures while reenforcing Japan's stance despite the mind game that is being played by China. Either way, in the end, just calmly wait at the door with a big stick and if Chinese make a first attack, kindly whack them back because that would then be the information that they need. And if China chooses to escalate afterwards, then the U.S. would walk over from next door with a couple big sticks of their own to help out. It is sad to see China play this game, but conflict rests in their hands and nothing else really changes.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Dear Japan friends, you and us are both victims of wrong politicians and suffered in history. USA gave Japan the administrative power of Liu-Qiu isles and Diao-yu (Okinawa's and senkaku) because they were snatched by force in 1892 and also Taiwan in 1894. In 1945 these were to returned to China per United nations because these are China sovereignty soils. Do we not forget our history. Do we not forget because of your aggression starting in 1931 then in 1937.7.7, you have lost more than 3m sons and China has lost 37m people. At the end, you suffered also greatly 2 A-bombs, and what did you get in the end? nothing - aside from USA privately assign you these isles under administrative use, you did not keep Korean peninsular, you return Taiwan, you withdraw from parts of China occupation. These are vital history one must read before come to any conclusion of today's issues. The politicians is not happy if you read the full history of this matter. We should voice out to our government and say enough is enough. Japan should not go through another war to repeat history once again.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

Love the names these PRC sponsored "Water Internet Army" trolls are using, but wade through all their bunk and the same old line comes shining through, "we come in peace, surrender and accept us as your masters".

Peace at the end of a bayonet is not peace, it is slavery. This is why the PRC's strategy will fail and it will fall into civil war.

The truth can not be drowned out with lie, no matter how many times you guys try to say it.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Is it likely that Chinas intelligence are so out of contact with the world so that they do not understand that this controversy is exactly what Abe and especially Obama needs to boost his support? Or could it be the other way around, they do indeed want the democrats to stay in power so that they can launch another agenda in the coming period? This assumes of course that the republicans have a reputation of being more hawkish in foreign policy, thus less attractive for China.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The U.S has already made its stance clear without sugar coating anything. They will not register their flight paths, or disclose their Logo when flying over the new zone. They will not accept the new fly zone and America is making that very clear. China better be ready to stand its ground.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Dragon1971 Look what has happened to every country China has backed militarily since WW2. Even if they have won the military game, their economies have been totally screwed for decades, even Myanmar and Vietnam are now turning to the US. This is why China is desperately trying to reassert itself but is actually backing itself into a corner. China doesn't have many friends left.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Funny how the message below got 10 thumbs down when it is TRUE information and I give sources.

Why would the U.S. defend Japan against a country that they conduct military drills with?

"Chinese Troops Drill in Hawaii as Military Ties Deepen With U.S." http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-11-11/chinese-troops-drill-in-hawaii-as-military-ties-deepen-with-u-dot-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzoiUlnFDFc

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Chinese diplomacy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Green Key

Funny how the message below got 10 thumbs down when it is TRUE information and I give sources. Why would the U.S. defend Japan against a country that they conduct military drills with?

Why all the thumbs down? Probably because most of us here understand the ocean of difference between China, a strategic adversary of the U.S. that's (finally) participating in it's inaugural joint training with our military (that's incidentally only non-combat HA/DR training), and Japan, an very established ally (in every way possible) with the U.S. with whom we have a Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security, to where our military is permanently forward deployed, and with whom we train and conduct major military exercises throughout the year. You obviously don't know what IFF is...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

PeaceasiaNov. 26, 2013 - 02:55PM JST

Dear Japan friends, you and us are both victims of wrong politicians and suffered in history. USA gave Japan the administrative power of Liu-Qiu isles and Diao-yu (Okinawa's and senkaku) because they were snatched by force in 1892 and also Taiwan in 1894. In 1945 these were to returned to China per United nations because these are China sovereignty soils. Do we not forget our history.

What history are you talking about?

Are you saying Okinawa, Senkaku and Taiwan were returned to China? None of them were ever returned to China.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I see the same pattern of sensible posts recognizing the blatant bullying and posturing of China's political elite for what it is and carefully crafted Pro China lobby posts trying to ignore the reality of the situation.

The islands in quesiton belong to Japan, they were bought legally and acceppted into the hegonomy of Japan, Period. End of story.

China can stamp its feel, make loud noises and even make threatening gestures but they have indeed painted themselves into a very small corner and have no way out without losing face. I hope they realize this sooner than later for their own sake. I wish China well and hope they can figure out how to join the modern world of nations and behave like a good neighbor soon, or they will be forefiting their potential role as one of the legitimate leaders of the Pacific Rim. At this rate, they will end up being the laughing stock and the leader of little beyond their own borders and their borders are set by international laws NOT by their own fantasy ambitions.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Japan needs a more diplomatic approach without wars but needs to wake up from its 1945 history and face realities of 21st century. U.S will may not be willing to fight with China for Japan in extreme cases. Japan to speak for herself.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

“There are regional disputes in that part of the world and those disputes should be resolved diplomatically,” he said.

Yes. Peaceful negotiation is certainly the best way to resolve the dispute.

And there is no doubt that China set up this air defense zone in order to force Japan to sit down and negotiate exactly like what the US is proposing.

However, I doubt this will be sufficient to force Shinzo Abe to negotiate since he had proclaimed that he would never with China regarding these islands.

Furthermore, Japan even told the lie that China doesn't dispute its claim over those islands i.e. there is no dispute at all.

We all know Japan excels in self-deceiving. So there is no doubt this dispute will carry on or even be escalated into a major war as long as Japan continues to tell the lie that there is no dispute.

Are you, two, advocating that Japan should build its nuclear weapons as well as conventional weapons to match China?

China already has plenty of nukes, even much more than what is required to destroy the whole of Japan. So China probably won't be too worried about Japan developing its own nukes.

According to the Japanese government, the main country that opposes Japan developing its own nukes is actually the US. This isn't surprising at all since Japan would certainly go for independence and ask the US military to leave Japan after it developed enough nukes for its own defense. The US would then lose its protectorate in Japan.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Guru29Nov. 26, 2013 - 07:56PM JST

And there is no doubt that China set up this air defense zone in order to force Japan to sit down and negotiate exactly like what the US is proposing.

Japan is always open to settle issues at ICJ if China also recognize jurisdiction of ICJ.

There is no "negotiation". The sovereignty issue is not settled through "negotiation" but by international law. Whoever established effective control of the islands gets the sovereignty. China should just prove its effective control of Senkakus before 1895, and Japanese government will concede the islands to China.

Setting overlapping ADIZ is totally unnecessary and is very dangerous.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

My my, suggestions of nuking the other side. Aren't we rather bloodthirsty tonight.

Japan is no more self-deceiving than that of the PRC. It is continually laughable for the PRC to constantly use the word "history" and accusations of whitewashing while it freely does this every single day.

Any idea of the PRC of having any form of superior moral ground is hilarious, and yet at the same time repugnant and repulsive.

Let me put this out to you again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Cathay_Pacific_Douglas_DC-4_shootdown http://www.helianthus-productions.com/VRHEU.html

With an act like that to consider the PRC to have ANY moral ground, let alone ANY confidence that they won't just arbitrarily modify the definition of "Commercial" whilst "enforcing" this ADIZ defies normal, sane or rational logical belief.

The CCP has no idea how much its "aiguo wuzui" oriented campaign is playing right into the hands of the Japanese far right. OR, they know, but they just don't care (which is much more likely). They want their war and that's it. It makes for "glorious revolutionary" prime-time screening, after all. After all, just as much as you claim, its NEGOTIATION. This is an act of GIVE AND TAKE. Not TAKE AND TAKE. Once again, China commits the same acts that it accuses others of.

Those 50 maos some of you get for your quality posting per post must be really strained to help account for the cost of living, it seems.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Germany and Israel are at peace. Why can't Japan and China be.

To tell you the truth, the US would never allow Japan to have good relations with China and even Russia since doing so means the US would lose its protectorate and almost all its military bases in east Asia.

The Americans knew that their core interest in east Asia is to keep Japan as its protectorate for as long as possible even decades ago. And they knew that the only way to achieve this is to make Japan totally isolated by its neighbors and remain helpless and fully dependent on the US.

That's exactly the reason why the US has kept encouraging Japan to challenge the various WWII peace treaties/agreements and reclaim territories it lost to the Allies including the Kurile islands, Ryukyu islands and Senkaku islands.

In fact, the Senkaku issue was actually created by the US for this purpose when Henry Kissinger decided to transfer the administration of these islands without handing over their sovereignty to Japan in around 1970.

This virtually ensured that Japan would never have good relations with China. And that's probably why Henry Kissinger became very angry when Kakuei Tanaka went to China in 1972 to normalize ties and said the following:

"Of all the treacherous sons of bitxhes, the Jps take the cake. It's not just their indecent haste in normalizing relations with China, but they even picked National Day as their preference to go there"

This shows the US has absolutely no interest in the sovereignty of these rocks as long as the problem will make Japan a US protectorate for as long as possible.

Besides encouraging Japan to reclaim the Ryukyus and Senkakus, the US also encouraged Japan to reclaim the Kurile islands that it had given up in the San Francisco Peace Treaty and by doing so, ensured that Japan would never sign a peace treaty with Russia. And even when Japan was near to signing the peace treaty to receive 2 of the 4 islands from Soviet Union, the US demanded that Japan gives up signing the treaty and go for all the 4 islands instead.

And when Japan held a 2+2 meeting with Russia recently, Obama quickly asked his Pentagon spokesman to publicly announce that the US has no plans to defend the Senkakus together with Japan.

This shows that the Senkakus is just a bait that the US uses to make Japan a permanent protectorate. And you actually owns these islands really doesn't matter to them.

And it seems the US even doesn't want Japan to have good relations with North Korea. That's probably why Japan was severely criticized by the US when Shinzo Abe sent an envoy to North Korea months ago.

So it is clear that the US doesn't want Japan to have good relations with its neighbors. Furthermore, it doesn't want Japan to go to war with its neighbors too since it is likely to lose its protectorate regardless of whether Japan wins or loses a major war against China or Russia. What it wants is just to keep Japan as its protectorate.

Setting overlapping ADIZ is totally unnecessary and is very dangerous.

Japan's ADIZ is also overlapping with the ADIZs of many other nations in east Asia. Just because you are Japanese, so you think Japan's ADIZ which is much bigger than the Chinese one is necessary and not dangerous at all?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

All I got from Guru29 post above is that China is TOO DUMB to recognize U.S. motives which he/she eloquently stated as "core interest in east Asia is to keep Japan as its protectorate for as long as possible"

Of course, the EASIEST solution to this is for China to stop their "what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine" policy and play nice to a point where Japan realizes their is no need for U.S. presence there but I guess their bloated ego won't allow it to go there.

Meanwhile,

"Demonstrating the extraordinary flexibility of a carrier strike group, USS George Washington (CVN 73) kicked off its participation in Annual Exercise (AnnualEx) 13, Nov. 25, just days after completing a humanitarian assistance mission under Operation Damayan in the Philippines.

AnnualEx 13 is designed to increase the defensive readiness and interoperability of Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) and U.S. naval forces through training in air and sea operations.

The complex exercise, which takes place in waters surrounding Japan, involves units in comprehensive scenarios involving maritime training in the air, surface and subsurface battlespaces in support of the defense of Japan."

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=77879

3 ( +7 / -4 )

U.S. forces set the KADIZ in the break of Korean War. They set them so the zone is more centered towards the North where Chinese forces were advancing. Japan had nothing to do with it.

No it did not. It merely covered what KADIZ did not cover.

According to Chosun Ilbo, Korean government asked in 1979 and 1983. Japan rejected on the basis that it compromises their defence capabilities.

It's interesting that you're quoting the Chosun Ilbo, but the Chosun Ilbo that I read says completely different. According to the same paper, in 1951 US's KADIZ included up to Ieodo. It was the Japanese who ignored it in 1969. The same paper says South Korea has asked Japan 10 or more times to sit down and re-negotiate lines, and each time either Japan ignored the requests or rejected it.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I am assuming, by now, the blood pressures of the hardcore nationalists in this forum may come down a little. That is good thing. :)

Even though no one knows exactly what will be happening over the Chinese ADIZ in near future, two things will be pretty much given: first, the US will further break some sort of face-saving deals between Japan and China. (Such back- channel dealings may have been working already for a while.) Secondly, the Chinese ADIZ will stay but additional enforcement rules and exceptions could be incorporated to prevent military aircraft from engaging dangerous close-range actions.

I am leaving two questions for your guys to think about. Why should the Chinese do the US a favor to declare its ADIZ after the Iranian interim deal was made not before that? Is such timing is a pure coincidence or articulated by the US and China?

Something, things don't always look as they seem.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

It's interesting that you're quoting the Chosun Ilbo, but the Chosun Ilbo that I read says completely different. According to the same paper, in 1951 US's KADIZ included up to Ieodo. It was the Japanese who ignored it in 1969. The same paper says South Korea has asked Japan 10 or more times to sit down and re-negotiate lines, and each time either Japan ignored the requests or rejected it

. http://www.chosunonline.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/11/25/2013112500744.html

2 ( +4 / -2 )

this will not end well....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Love the way these PRC "Water Internet poster" start their posts ,"DEAR ALL JAPNESS FRIENDS and dear Japan friends".

Sounds as if the PRC is sending out their army of posters to try and sway the Japanese to rise up and make the PRC their new big brother. Funny though, the only folks that buy this are the ones living in the 1960's and still wearing grey Mao outfits.

These lines sound more like the lines straight out of some silly 1960's PRC propaganda flick or a flick produced by General Liu Yazhou this year.

Look up “The Silent Contest,” if you want a huge laugh and insight into their mindset. You can't make this stuff up!!!

I have to know, who comes up with this stuff?

Must be the same folks that write the news out of the PRC and North Korea.

If you want to get a real big laugh look up their news outlets.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Just checked on Chinese forums. Full of warmongers as always. Dreadful. Pray for peace.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

mjh875k: The U.S has already made its stance clear without sugar coating anything. They will not register their flight paths, or disclose their Logo when flying over the new zone. They will not accept the new fly zone and America is making that very clear. China better be ready to stand its ground.

Yes - the US just flew two B-52s through that new zone.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Guru29Nov. 26, 2013 - 07:56PM JST “There are regional disputes in that part of the world and those disputes should be resolved diplomatically,” he said. Yes. Peaceful negotiation is certainly the best way to resolve the dispute. And there is no doubt that China set up this air defense zone in order to force Japan to sit down and negotiate exactly like what the US is proposing.

Thank you for the laugh Guru, second I read that line I started cracking up!LOL

Again thank you, you PRC water internet army member are really too funny.

Next you'll claim that the reason the PRC invaded and occupies Philippine territory is because they just wanted to negotiate peacefully!LOL

You guys come up with the darnedest of excuses, who writes your TPM a 10 year old?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

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