politics

U.S. fast-track vote leaves TPP talks in limbo

19 Comments
By ELAINE KURTENBACH

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19 Comments
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Hurray!

TPP is DEAD!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Better than the TPP would be an EU style open borders one currency policy for people to come and live and work there. Seems to me if the big shots running things want their corportations to have free reign they can at least negotiate an open borders policy which allows people who lost their jobs to globalization find new ones through it. But this agreement- I'll just sell you my product and you buy it.No. Sorry.Can't get a visa to live and work in my country. Don't forget to buy from my country- really is for the birds.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It's over, so the people will not be able to pay what they think is fair for goods. Instead, they will have to subsidise special interests, and leave politicians one of the greatest tools to buy votes and extort graft. In the end, regular people have lost.

A couple of the countries in TPP charge outrageous tariffs on my Japanese goods, had these tariffs been dropped, I could have exported more to these countries. Had I been able to export more, I could have had more of these goods made here in Japan. Had more of these goods been made and sold, my Japanese suppliers would have made more money for themselves and their families. But once again, the wants of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

Hurray! TPP is DEAD!

Yes, and you can continue to pay 5 times more for rice, 4 times more for butter, three or four times as much for beef, 5 or more times as much for medicines like aspirin, etc. And if you are feeding a family, the cost is much higher. You really have no idea, do you?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

sangetsu03 JUN. 16, 2015 - 09:44AM JST Yes, and you can continue to pay 5 times more for rice, 4 times more for butter, three or four times as much for beef, 5 or more times as much for medicines like aspirin, etc. And if you are feeding a family, the cost is much higher. You really have no idea, do you?

Japan has it's own shares of problem and they are hesitant on problems of TPP agreement. In a few years, Japan government farm subsidies will be eliminated and most of these older farmers has to learn to survive on their own. I am not sure if the criticism of Japan is warranted for not importing enough agricultural products. Japan already imports 60 percent of its food supply from other countries and food safety is a sensitive issue. By comparison, the U.S. imports about a tenth of its food supply and tests less than 1 percent of shipments. Sure, Japan could import cheaper California rice, but what about rural farmers in Japan that will no longer will be able compete and survive on farming. Then what? Bankrupt farmers will be asking the government for more handouts. The J-government's future plans are that they are trying to maintain stability of farmers in their own country first.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Yes, and you can continue to pay 5 times more for rice, 4 times more for butter, three or four times as much for beef, 5 or more times as much for medicines like aspirin, etc. And if you are feeding a family, the cost is much higher. You really have no idea, do you?

Better than the race to the bottom that the TPP would have created, lowering the income of everyone overall due to more money going into the pockets of the top 1% who can afford to move production to 3rd world countries, taking away from jobs from Japan.

Sure stuff would be cheaper with the TPP, but people wouldn't have as much money, so it would have to be cheaper to be able to afford to live. In the end, people's purchasing power would drop.

The TPP is no good whatsoever for the little guy. It only benefits the major corporations.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Better than the race to the bottom that the TPP would have created, lowering the income of everyone overall due to more money going into the pockets of the top 1% who can afford to move production to 3rd world countries, taking away from jobs from Japan.

Incredible hypocrisy.

So, you think that people in 3rd world countries should be condemned to eternal poverty? Do you think they should suffer low wages and squalid living conditions so you can earn a higher salary? Do you know that compared to majority of people in the world, you are part of the 1%? Why don't you apply your standards to yourself?

Did you know that over the past 15 years globalisation has raised one-fifth of the world's population out of poverty? And that these people are now able to afford things that were undreamed of by their countrymen just a generation before? Can you honestly argue that globalisation has benefitted only the corporations? Take a walk in Ginza or Akihabara, and look at the people shopping there. Most are from China or Taiwan, more than a few are from Korea, Vietnam, or Indonesia. None of these people own corporations, most of them are small business owners and company workers, and now that they are earning more money, they are bringing a lot of it back to Japan and other places.

How has the current situation of high tariffs and protecting the domestic economy from foreign competition affected Japan? After all, no other developed country has protected it's domestic economy more than Japan. People can't afford to have children, because feeding, clothing them, and educating them is expensive, all the more so because staples cost more in Japan than they do in other developed countries. Keeping the dirty foreigner competitors out of Japan has created a antiquated and uncompetitive business culture in Japan, and 70% of companies are now "loss producing". The stagnation of business and population has driven down wages, and reduced tax revenues, which the government compensates for by borrowing and spending, which has resulted in the largest national debt of any developed country. The only Japanese companies which are doing well are those which operate and sell mainly outside Japan.

But damn the rest of the world to misery and poverty, and damn Japan to economic collapse, so long as you get yours, the rest is okay?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

sangetsu03 JUN. 16, 2015 - 09:44AM JST Yes, and you can continue to pay 5 times more for rice, 4 times more for butter, three or four times as much for beef, 5 or more times as much for medicines like aspirin, etc. And if you are feeding a family, the cost is much higher. You really have no idea, do you?

You really have no idea what you wanted to say yes to. Read WikiLeaks, the TPP was another way to package, a little good with a part of hell. TPP would have included most of SOPA, plus a lot of extra things that would totally ruin all the small companies, and give big companies access to everybody's Internet access, antenna triangulation and more. So the big companies would have full access to data transactions of all the smaller companies (that does not have huge sums of money for data security).

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So, you think that people in 3rd world countries should be condemned to eternal poverty?

No, but neither do I think the TPP is an appropriate solution to the problem. The money will all go to the corporations at the top, it will not go to the 3rd world nations.

Do you know that compared to majority of people in the world, you are part of the 1%?

I do know this. I have a roof over my head, more clothes than I need, food in my fridge, and a car. I count myself very lucky for all of this. It's a lesson I try to teach my children all the time.

But damn the rest of the world to misery and poverty, and damn Japan to economic collapse, so long as you get yours, the rest is okay?

You've got it all wrong. I fully believe in bringing the world out of poverty - there is more than enough to go around if we were to share. The problem is that the TPP hasn't been built out of the idea of sharing, it's been built out of the idea of putting money in the pockets of corporations. No matter which way you want to spin it, that is not a good deal for anyone - 1st world nations nor 3rd world nations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@sangetsu03

I can understand your argument about higher tarriffs leading to higher prices but the reality is that most goods are already tariff free in the WTO. Where tarriffs still exist, I think the average is 6%ish on average. (Of course, agriculture has always been heavily subsidised in every country and therefore a bit of a special case) The TPP was really an attempt to remove those non-tariff barriers which are protectionism under the guise of safety standards or packaging requirements etc etc.

Just out of curiosity, do you mind telling us what type of goods you export, or what tariff rate your customers are paying? I assume you probably aren't exporting Kobe beef or Japanese milk?

Personally, I'm glad to see TPP fail primarily because America is interested in having all countries grant patents for methods of medical treatment and diagnosis to support their medical industries - something which is explicitly excluded from patent protection for policy reasons in almost every country. I actually work in a field where I would benefit financially from such a change but it simply terrifies me as a human being.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sangetsu03 I think American rice tastes like BLEEP! I think American beef has too much fat and with hormones is bad for the health. As for medicines they are inexpensive in Japan compared to America. Sure some of the over the counter stuff is more expensive but people need to go to a hospital when ill.

Also TPP will be a job killer in both America and Japan enriching the one percent. Abe is in the pocket of the one percent and in the American governments pocket as well. About the rice, American rice is so very DISGUSTING that the people of Japan will not buy it. Remember this is all for the very rich and not the working class. About the developing countries economies, charity starts at home.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

American rice is so very DISGUSTING

At least it's not contaminated with pesticides and who knows what else!

American beef has too much fat

What?! Japanese beef is basically overpriced fat with a little bit of meat here and there!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

onagagamo you have no proof that Japanese rice is unhealthy. The American stuff really tastes bad. As for beef, I prefer Aussie beef as it is range fed, hormone and antibiotics free.

So the USA wants Japan to be forced to buy American beef and rice. I will not buy the stuff as it is unhealthy and probably genetically modified as well.

Again and again the TPP is for the one percent and against the 99 percent.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So the USA wants Japan to be forced to buy American beef and rice. I will not buy the stuff as it is unhealthy and probably genetically modified as well.

Nobody is telling you what to buy. They just want options

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So the USA wants Japan to be forced to buy American beef and rice. I will not buy the stuff as it is unhealthy and probably genetically modified as well.

Fine, suit yourself. But don't stop me from doing it!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

TPP is dead forever..

I was surprised that Powerful Nanci Peroci went to NO vote at final moment. And you may want to know next Presidential candidate Clinton always has been NO to TPP as she needs Labor support for election.

By the way you may want to note Mrs. Clinton was a big NO for NAFTA when her husband Bill Clinton was promoting NAFTA. . American politics is complecated! LOL

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Americans expressing a desire to expand trade should not be equated with support for a treaty that is likely to remove national control over regulatory safeguards and subjugate people, municipalities, states, regions, and whole nations to the whims of private tribunals awarding corporate litigants with multi-million dollar awards due to loss of imagined future potential profits. Americans want trade, but we don't want binding secret treaties that likely subordinate nations and people to the whims of the anointed oligarchs.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

and the Koreans will be loving it, no TPP will mean Japanese cars , electronics will keep there tariffs in place while Koreans tarriffs are zero, but hey as long as the 1% of the J farmers are protected at the cost of the other 99%. and dont think the US will suddenly become less tough if Japan decides to have a direct FTA with the Americans, if anything now the US congress has a choke hold on any FTAs theyll demand much more tariffs cuts on J agriculture. which is why Abe wanted a fast track so they could keep most of the j tariffs in place. Japanese consumers have been getting shafted by big J business for decades

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sangetsu: Many 3rd world nations have corrupt govts and trade deals would only benefit those at the top. These countries need to remove their oppressors and institute a more democratic society, including economically (redistributive taxes), institute a living wage, and ensure corporate compliance. This is an internal issue and needs to be dealt with before joining any trade deal. There is an order to be followed. Helping a butterfly out of its coccoon results in its death. If western democracies had not had the enlightenment, for instance, we would all have corrupt pseudo-democracies or have still absolute monarchies and dictatorships.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If they manage to slip the TPP through by some trick or when no one is watching what would be the result?

Cheap food for all?

Sure - AT FIRST.

It would go the same route as the small farmers in Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath, or the grocery shops, markets and butchers before the supermarkets. And like the food in supermarkets, prices would be low at the beginning and then, when the small shops were out of business, prices would go up.

TPP is NOT about free trade.

It's about giving more power to the huge mega corporations like Dow Chemicals and Monsanto, those benefactors to mankind who gave us Agent Orange and Sarin, who hawk carcinogenic pesticides and make it illegal for a farmer to save his year's crops seeds for sowing next year.

People in 3rd world countries would suffer because there would be no generic medicines. They simply could not afford the prices big pharma demands. And they would starve because their local food producing industries couldn't keep up with the mega corporations.

Certainly, Japan's agricultural infrastructure is in dire need of reform, but it can't be done over night. If the TPP went in, unable to keep up with the price of mass produced produce, hundreds of thousands of farmers and agricultural workers would be out of work.

It would be Soviet Russia all over again.

You can work for the corporation or starve.

No wonder they held the negotiations in secret!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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