politics

U.S. general urges China, Japan to talk to avoid 'miscalculations'

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Miscalculation dodn't cause conflicts. Calculating politicians do.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Miscalculation dodn't cause conflicts. Calculating politicians do.

Beautiful comment. And we are in politicians' dirty hands.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Agree with darnname big time. I wouldn't call Shinzo Abe's decision to visit Yasukuni as a miscalculation. It was calculated as he knew what the reaction was going to be much before he went there. He knew China and S Korea would protest (I don't necessarily fault them), and that their reaction could be used for furthering his own nationalistic agenda and propaganda. The only miscalculation, if there indeed was any, was perhaps the strongly worded rebuke by the US to Abe. But there was an article some time ago about Biden trying to convince Abe over the phone, so I doubt even the US reaction to that Yasukuni visit episode was unexpected by Abe.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

@FullM3taL: if you think only one country is creating problems in the Pacific area you are missing the point.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Never thought I would do it, however, despite Abe being a cretin of the first order, I would point out that the problems between Japan and China are not all a one street. China, for all its blowhard rhetoric, isn't innocent. At the current time it has " territorial" disputes with a whole host of countries. It is also under the hammer over certain "domestic" problems such as Tibet and suppression of human rights, etc.

Whatever the case, to quote Churchill, "it is better to jaw jaw, than war war."

7 ( +8 / -1 )

China is a regional power with a great capacity for mischief. It is a huge country with an increasingly significant economy. It can play a constructive or the dog in the manger role.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

China, for all its blowhard rhetoric, isn't innocent.

Also the US are not innocent, we know they are behind Japan foreign policy. We have to understand if these politicians are only playing the propaganda card to hurt the "enemy" economically, or trying to create a Casus belli that hides deeper interests.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Agree with darnname and other likeminded comments.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Who in the Obama regime is calling for free elections & democratic reforms in mainland China? "...sound of crickets..."

4 ( +6 / -2 )

A string of high ranking U.S. officials, all the way up to the President and Vice President, have been actively working to stop provocative nonsense being pursued by both China and Japan, and to keep both sides from each others' throats.

Of course the U.S. has ulterior motives for playing this role given that peace in the Pacific theater is in Washington's best interest, but still this is one area, at least, where U.S. politicians and bureaucrats deserve some credit.

I see significant danger of armed conflict stemming from the Chinese government blatantly fueling animosity toward Japan in an effort to avert anti-government outrage among Chinese population due to troubles at home, along with Japanese politicians blithely exacerbating the situation through their continual insensitivity and nationalistic stupidity.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

darnnameFeb. 23, 2014 - 06:41AM JST Miscalculation dodn't cause conflicts. Calculating politicians do.

Well said!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Also the US are not innocent, we know they are behind Japan foreign policy. We have to understand if these politicians are only playing the propaganda card to hurt the "enemy" economically, or trying to create a Casus belli that hides deeper interests.

That’s absolute nonsense…….

The Japanese public vote for Abe in higher numbers than any recent PM other than Koizumi, and that’s somehow the US’s fault….

The US clearly tells Abe that he’s going overboard with the lurch to the right and to avoid going to Yasukuni so that some dialogue can be developed between Japan, China and SKorea to deal with the ever worsening situation in NKorea, yet he goes anyway, and that is somehow the US’s fault…….

As the article clearly states, Gen Odierno repeats the US position that the two countries should sit down and discuss the issue and takes steps to avoid any escalation; yet China enacts an ADIZ and Abe pays his respects at Yasukuni – and this is somehow all the US’s fault…….

Typical anti-US reactionary nonsense…….

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Typical anti-US reactionary nonsense…….

Yeah, sure. Apparently you don't know that the US always supported the right-wing in Japan. I don't know how many times I must say it. They contributed to the failure of Hatoyama project to get Japan closer to China because it's in the US interests to keep a leading role in the region, they don't want a united Asia. But it's useless to say these things here...

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

US maintains the neutral position as always. Does the army chief think its effective?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I agree with you Lincolnman, Alex80 is here solely as an anti american. He has lost perspective in his posts. The US has interests in the region and does flout influence but Japans policies are pretty much in the hands of Japans politicians.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

It's not a one-way street, as others have said. However, because Japan has taken the low road, it makes it harder to say 'it's China's fault', because now Japan has fault as well. Everyone expects the Chinese to act like children, so you would hope the Japanese would act more mature. Such hasn't been the case in the Abe administration though.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Americanhonor: how your nationalist nickname shows, you seems being the typical person who calls "anti-american" anyone who only says the truth about American role in Japanese politics.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I think just about everyone has urged talks by now, but they don't seem to be happening. China can't leave the past in the past, and Japan can't stop reacting with volatility at every little Chinese provocation. Until these two nations can overcome such issues, there isn't going to be much in the way of dialogue.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The potential for any miscalculation between China and Japan lies with the Americans. Shinzo Abe, willing tool of America in the pursuit of his own personal agenda, has become exceptionally arrogant not only towards his own constituency ( the Japanese people ) but also to China and South Korea; two countries that could bring more economic benefits to Japan and its people than the antagonism Shinzo Abe's arrogance and actions have unfurled. With a hot potato on their hands as well as many in the LDP and LDP-elected leaders of private and public corporations and agencies it is time for the Japanese people to rise up from their comatose and throw these bunch of thugs out and replacing them by far-sighted and concerned young people working for the future of their country than these bunch of old people trying to re-live a decadent past of Japanese imperialism.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japanese policy is and will indefinitely be driven by the US. China knows this and will play it to its advantage. There will never be any military provocation from either side as both know and fear financial consequences of such actions. China knows that they can bully Japan and are now pushing more and more. The usa will stand by the sidelines and continue to urge dialogue, thats all they can ever do as they are partially owned by china and will continue to need China to buy its increasing debt. Eventually Japan will have no choice but to give in to china as they are becoming more and more financially dependent on them as well. Right now Japan is trying to establish itself as the major power in Asia. However they have no support from any other narion except the weakened and now becoming irrelevant usa.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

U.S. Army Chief of Staff Ray Odierno and a lot of posters here are clearly out of the loop. The Japanese have been requesting high level meetings with both China and South Korea for a year to discuss any issues, and the governments of both countries have flat out refused to do so unless Japan is willing to accede to all their silly demands beforehand.

It's simply wrong to attempt to tar Japan with the same brush when it comes to diplomatic recalcitrance. Rather the Chief of Staff should be asking the Chinese and Koreans why they refuse to test their claims over the Senkakus and Takeshima before the ICJ if they are so 'righteous'.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

No miscalculation is fact that Senkaku/Diaoyu island is very small and beautiful island and that is why tensions are high and miscalculations may accrue if nothing else will solve this problem.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Talking would be good but both leaders are obstinate. Compounding this is China's tendency to walk out or close the door on anything that doesn't go the way they'd like.

Only the other day, China threatened a serious deterioration in relations with the USA if Obama went ahead and met the Dalai Lama in Washington D.C.. Obama went ahead with the meeting and pledged "strong support" for Tibetans. (Now if that had been Abe, lots of people around here would be denouncing him as laying the ground for war.) China also walked out of talks with the Philippines on a disputed island chain. China also refused to meet British government ministers after PM Cameron had met the Dalai Lama (though their tune soon changed when the UK offered China more investment opportunities).

Truth is, you can't lay all the blame at Abe's door. China has a lot of form on these things. But Abe certainly doesn't help himself - or rather Japan - by appointing revisionist cretins to NHK and visiting Yasukuni shrine and so on.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Abe "calculated rise" as hero to the right wing groups, the Japan nation fell in miscalculated shame.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

On Wednesday, Japan’s Jiji Press quoted Captain James Fanell, intelligence chief for the US Pacific Fleet, as telling a forum that China has tasked its military to become capable of conducting “a short sharp war to destroy Japanese forces in the East China Sea”.

Odierno, however, dismissed such reports when asked to comment. “I’ve seen no indications of that at all,” he said.

I am assuming that US believes China would tell them they were going to attack Japanese ships....

In any case, is Japan or the US prepared for such a scenario, they should be prepared for anything. Who would trust China on any issue today??

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yeah, sure. Apparently you don't know that the US always supported the right-wing in Japan. I don't know how many times I must say it.

You can say it as long as you want to – until you offer some hard facts to back up your far-fetched conspiracy theories, they're all just “hot air”…..

They contributed to the failure of Hatoyama project to get Japan closer to China because it's in the US interests to keep a leading role in the region, they don't want a united Asia.

Huh? The US is trying to keep Japan, China and SKorea from aggravating one another further, yet somehow they’re trying to keep these countries from getting closer together? That’s exactly what the US has been trying to do for the past 10 years – it’s called “tri-lateral cooperation” and the US has been urging these countries to meet, discuss issues that effect them all, and to broaden contacts and information sharing…..yet they each feel compelled to “poke a finger” at the other for purely domestic political reasons. Explain to me how the US made Shimane prefecture hold “Takeshima Day”? Explain to me how the US made China enact the ADIZ of the Senkakus? Explain to me how the US made the South Korea public view Abe with the same favorability rating as Kim Jong Un?

But it's useless to say these things here...

Well, that I can agree with……..

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Once we are rid of Abe China will be more easily dealt with. There is no question that vile as China's leadership is Abe is goading them and giving them an excuse to act menacing. Abe has got to go. We cannot get rid of the Chinese Communist party. We can get rid of Abe and the LDP once the Japanese wise up.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Odierno, upon orders from Leftist Obama, tells democratic Ally Japan, to play it cool with anti-democratic dictatorship PRC. After all, saying something like "tear down this wall!" might empower and give hope to millions, especially the dissidents and political prisoners languishing in rotten PRC jails. Oh no. We can't have that, now can we? Show some backbone in the face of tyrants? Oh no. That might make the US President as a weak willed flacid amateur. Can't have that.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Has that general told China the same thing or is he giving a hint that America will not help Japan with getting total control of the islands back?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You can say it as long as you want to – until you offer some hard facts to back up your far-fetched conspiracy theories, they're all just “hot air”…..

Conspiracy theories? This is fun. Read this, for example (I could find also better articles than this): http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/japan-alliance-china-174/

From the article:

Previous Japanese attempts at strengthening its autonomy both within and outside the framework of the U.S.-Japan alliance have been, on the whole, rather lackluster.

Efforts at economic, technological, and military autonomy have, to varying degrees, been rather unsuccessful. Most efforts at creating alternative alliance partners—other U.S. allies, non-U.S. allies, or multilateral constructs—to dilute U.S. control and influence over Japan’s foreign policy decision-making have, although not completely unsuccessful, paled in comparison to the United States’ ability to use the alliance to influence Japanese foreign policy decision-making. This is because the alliance itself is highly asymmetrical and because very few viable alternatives seem to exist.

The very asymmetry of the alliance, moreover, sheds light on Japanese motivations for attempting to locate and cultivate potential and viable alternatives. Simply put, Japan seeks a more equal position within the alliance, one that grants Japan an equal say at the alliance negotiating table with its current senior partner.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Conspiracy theories? This is fun. Read this, for example (I could find also better articles than this): http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/japan-alliance-china-174/

One article from a Masters degree student in Taiwan? Hardly convincing........

And I noticed that once again you ignored my request to explain the three examples I cited........

But it's useless to say these things here...

I'd recommend you stick to that.......

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

And I noticed that once again you ignored my request to explain the three examples I cited........

Your examples can be explained simply saying what I already said, Japanese foreign policy is driven by the US, while China is free from American influence. The US know they can't contain China's development but they won't stop to interfere in Asia; in the current situation they can take advantage from selling weapons to the Asians countries, so their calls for talks are only a facade. As I said, I can find articles better than that, but you are too much nationalist to open your eyes. Try to read this: http://english.ryukyushimpo.jp/2013/04/25/10070/

From the article:

The U.S., in 1945, really did control the world and a few years later that had already changed and China was liberated and later the countries in Southeast Asia began to move toward some degree of independence and brutal wars followed. It’s a horrible story. Later, the former Japanese colonies, Taiwan and South Korea, began their industrial development, and actually picked up from where it had been before, and now were partially independent and more free and the whole region is much more diverse. Japan, on the contrary, remains very much subordinate to the United States. Recall when there was an effort by a Japanese prime minister to offer Okinawa some support in its effort to remove the base. He was immediately thrown out. He couldn’t sustain himself under American pressure. It was just a couple of years ago.

Of course, to you Dr. Noam Chomsky is only a generic anti-american like me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Your examples can be explained simply saying what I already said, Japanese foreign policy is driven by the US, while China is free from American influence. The US know they can't contain China's development but they won't stop to interfere in Asia; in the current situation they can take advantage from selling weapons to the Asians countries, so their calls for talks are only a facade. As I said, I can find articles better than that, but you are too much nationalist to open your eyes.

Once again, huh? I gave you three concrete examples where each nation went against US wishes and you offer nothing but generalities – well, as Spring training is beginning, let me offer a baseball analogy; you had three pitches and swung and missed at all three – from a credibility standpoint, you’re out……….

From the article: Try to read this: http://english.ryukyushimpo.jp/2013/04/25/10070/The U.S., in 1945, really did control the world and a few years later that had already changed and China was liberated and later the countries in Southeast Asia began to move toward some degree of independence and brutal wars followed. It’s a horrible story. Later, the former Japanese colonies, Taiwan and South Korea, began their industrial development, and actually picked up from where it had been before, and now were partially independent and more free and the whole region is much more diverse. Japan, on the contrary, remains very much subordinate to the United States. Recall when there was an effort by a Japanese prime minister to offer Okinawa some support in its effort to remove the base. He was immediately thrown out. He couldn’t sustain himself under American pressure. It was just a couple of years ago.

Perhaps you’ve missed some of my earlier posts but I’ve lived on Okinawa – I know that the Shimpo and Times are nothing but far left wing, anti-US supermarket tabloids controlled by the vested elites on the island – it’s quite telling that you can’t cite something more credible that that.

Of course, to you Dr. Noam Chomsky is only a generic anti-american like me.

No, Dr Chomsky, no matter how much I disagree with his views is an intellectual, in that regard I would never equate him with you…….

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I love the US can be both overpowering puppetmaster of all international relations and feckless superpower in decline, depending on the anti-US argument being made at the time. As with most gross oversimplifications, the turh is probably a little of both but mostly neither. While true, that we do tend to stick our noses in a lot of regional disputes, in THIS case its for an objectively good cause...to prevent an armed conflict (for a change). And while we do have a large debt, and a lot of our bonds are held by the Chinese, a lot are held by Japan as well, and we have more to lose from declining relations with our staunches ally in Asia than we do from stiffening our back against China. IMHO, its a sign of the USA's growing maturity as a nation-state that the first instinct ISN'T a puffed up chest and war drums.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japan must act now and cut down China before it's too late!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Once again, huh?

And once again you missed my point, the US are okay with conflicts in Asia because they need this situation.

I gave you three concrete examples where each nation went against US wishes

"Against US wishes" only if you trust the US propaganda.

Perhaps you’ve missed some of my earlier posts but I’ve lived on Okinawa – I know that the Shimpo and Times are nothing but far left wing, anti-US supermarket tabloids controlled by the vested elites on the island – it’s quite telling that you can’t cite something more credible that that.

No matter the source, it was Dr. Chomsky interview that could be published also in another newspaper.

You nationalism makes you blind.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And once again you missed my point, the US are okay with conflicts in Asia because they need this situation.

Three concrete examples and this is all you have to say? Let me add two more directly from the front page of this website;

Japan Considering Revising Comfort Women Apology

US and Japan Fail to Make Headway on TPP

Neither of these is in the US's interests or what it desires - so please educate us again how the US "controls" Japan's foreign policy......inquiring minds want to know.........

"Against US wishes" only if you trust the US propaganda.

I got it - you have no facts to back up your claims.

No matter the source, it was Dr. Chomsky interview that could be published also in another newspaper. You nationalism makes you blind.

And your inability to support your far-fetched, conspiracy theories with even one iota of fact shows your complete lack of credibility.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I got it - you have no facts to back up your claims.

Even though I give you some articles written by prominent intellectuals, like Chomsky, you ignore them, so which is the point to speak with you and give you other analisys? Japanese revisionism is useful to keep the Asia divided (and this is exactly what the US want, or they would lose their reason to be present in this strategical region), so I don't buy American complaints about it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Japanese revisionism is useful to keep the Asia divided (and this is exactly what the US want, or they would lose their reason to be present in this strategical region), so I don't buy American complaints about i

You're over thinking things. The US maintains a presence in the region for the same reason anyone has a presence anywhere. Trade. High tensions in East Asia is bad for business. War is worse. And so the US works to try to prevent it. One, by pushing for talks. Two, by having a giant navy in the region. You're right to say that its selfish, But you're wrong that it's malicious.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Even though I give you some articles written by prominent intellectuals, like Chomsky, you ignore them, so which is the point to speak with you and give you other analisys? Japanese revisionism is useful to keep the Asia divided (and this is exactly what the US want, or they would lose their reason to be present in this strategical region), so I don't buy American complaints about it.

More evasion and generalities; once again pls respond directly to the question;

Japan Considering Revising Comfort Women Apology

US and Japan Fail to Make Headway on TPP

Neither of these is in the US's interests or what it desires - so please educate us again how the US "controls" Japan's foreign policy......

And if all you have to offer is more generalities, don't bother to reply.........

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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