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U.S. hopes China, Japan will push diplomacy on isles dispute

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Well the problem is that; "China has shown no inclination to respond to the overtures". Furthermore; China’s military told the United States this week not to support Japan, nor let it do as it pleased, over the islets." which is ridiculous and typical of Chinese bull in the China shop diplomacy, It's also baffling that the US Sec of State and the US Sec of Defense have told China to their faces but; "China has long harbored suspicions about U.S. interest in the dispute as the U.S.-Japan security treaty commits the United States to intervene in defense of Japan if there is an attack on Japanese-administered territory." It shouldn't be a suspicion at this stage.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

By the time they get around to any agreement, the whole ocean around the islands will be radioactive.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

What language did Abe and Xi use in Russia? Or was it a couple of head-nods, Gaisatu style?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

And now if the US would just pivot its way out of Asia. Better for all! @tokyo-star: what is "gaisatsu"? 外殺? Or do you mean 外圧?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Nah its the 挨拶 nod that 外人 give each other as you pass in the street. Your eyes might meet but you don't actually say anything - the nod acknowledges the fact that you are both whities doing it tough in the land of the rising sun. Is this just around my circle of friends, or has no one heard of it before? 外国人同士の挨拶、「外拶」 if you will.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Its just so funny to me that anyone would think US is going to intervene militarily with this nonsensical matter.

Look at Syria, with its gov't killing hundreds of thousands and threaten US's most important and symbiotic ally in Israel for decades and nothing is been done when Russia merely utter a few words.

There's wishful thinking and then there's reality. I will guarantee you that no US President, majority of senate member, congressional member or majority of US public will support and military conflict against China. Not now, not never over Japan.

Japan really need to arm up and face this alone because at the end of the day, no one is coming. That hefty military presence will be shifted to Guam. Why you ask? Because they don't want to be in range of those Chinese missiles. Think about this, US is moving its military bases because the geographical situation is no longer beneficial to US. Think hard about the value in that and the diminishing value as a vanguard pawn in Japan.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I hope China goes home and stays there.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

highball7Sep. 15, 2013 - 08:23PM JST Its just so funny to me that anyone would think US is going to intervene militarily with this nonsensical matter. Look at Syria, with its gov't killing hundreds of thousands and threaten US's most important and symbiotic ally in Israel >for decades and nothing is been done when Russia merely utter a few words.

If you equate military intervention in another Mideast civil war with defending America's closest Asian ally, home to the US 7th Fleet, and home to he largest US military base in the region, then you are comparing apples with dog meat.

There's wishful thinking and then there's reality. I will guarantee you that no US President, majority of senate member, >congressional member or majority of US public will support and military conflict against China. Not now, not never >over Japan.

Your view is what we call wishful thinking, The US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty has been in place for 53 years, from when China couldn't even feed itself. You are underestimating the awareness of the US government and the people as to the nature of the Chinese one-party dictatorship and it's military and territorial ambitions. Exactly how you are capable of "guaranteeing" anything is puzzling.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

CCCP's claim that their claim on the islands is indisputable is itself quite disputable. Were it truly indisputable there would actually be no dispute.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The whole notion to presume that US would rush to depend Japan if there is an armed conflict pertaining to Sankakus islands is a misguided belief. Under political and economical tides in United states nowadays, there will be little willingness for Obama's administration as well as the congress to support or participate a costly fight with an arising and more assertive China; let alone that American public has lost stomach for any military involvements in the world after Iraq and Afghan wars, which perhaps cost $4-6 trillion dollars.

Let me put this in anther way, in many American's minds, Sankakus islands are not Tokyo or Osaka; (if four Chinese coast guard ships intrude into Tokyo Bay on daily basis, that will be different story in terms of invoking the treaty). Instead, the remote islands are a bunch of faraway uninhabited isles, whose sovereignty may be still a big question mark. In other words, it depends who you would ask. Putting all of these ingredients together, there would be very little incentive for US to get involved in the warmongering propaganda propelled by Japanese and Chinese nationalists.

That being said, the best scenario for US would be that cool heads from Japanese government and Chinese government will eventfully sit down and work out a political solution over the disputed islands without dragging US into a conflict that Americans want to avoid in the first place.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ethan Wilbur, if a similar "attack" occurred to the UK or any other US ally do you believe the US would not respond? Do you believe that if North Korea crossed the 38th parallel and invaded South Korea the US would not respond? These islands are not just rocks they are a crucial point in the Chinese PLAN's to break the first island chain for he purpose of pushing he US Navy out of the western Pacific. They have said so themselves. The United States is not going to let that happen. Anyone who thinks so has zero understanding of the nature of the United States. Apparently it is part of the internet Chinese army's strategy to repeat that the US will not do anything to defend Japan. This despite the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty having gone into effect 53 years ago when China was a backwards hole that couldn't feed itself, and the U.S., having stated their position to China sufficient times to cause them to whine and cry about it. So please give it a rest. China believes what the US says, otherwise they would be sending PLAN ships and planes to the Senkakus.

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The US really has no time for the Diaoyus. They have the problems in the Middle East. Now they have to contend with Russia, watch the political fiasco in Taiwan and worry about the impending civil war in South Philippines. Pakistan and Afghanistan continue to cause them headaches and the Democrats and Republicans back home won't agree on anything except the Russian proposals on Syria. The government is going to go broke this October unless more money is printed. So will they go to war over some rocks so far away? It is best that Japan and China find a way to talk.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How about we share 50% 50% why all the talk of war?

If you want to fight. Fight already.. or You can sit down have a chat and come to an agreement.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Isnt this a non issue? Im sure that most of you remember that the US part in the issue with Senkaku has been settled before. The US regard the Senkakus as under japanese control and any violation on that will activate their defense treaty. There is no way that Obama or any one else could back out from that without losing face among all allies over the world. But maybe you find it is interesting to discuss a hypothetical situation where the US no longer will keep its agreements.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ossan,

Asian closest ally to us doesn't equate to CLOSEST ally to us. If you think Japan is on the same level of importance with Israel, YOU are gravely mistaken.

The 7th fleet has been and is currently HQed in Japan as a forward deploy HQ. Its mean target is North Korea, Russia and China in that order when it was first designated as FDOB. Also we stationed these bases in Japan some 50 odd years ago isn't for the sole reason of deterrance of the Soviets but as an occupying force IN Japan to control Japan and PREVENT Japan from another nationalistic movement.

I hope we never leave Japan because who knows what you guys might do with your craziness for pride and expansion.

Be clear on the purpose of these bases. They are NOT solely situated for the benefit of Japan. You are the least of our concern which might be a good thing for you if Japan stays as a pacifist nation. The more right Japan turns, I think it will see MORE US involvement militarily in and around Japan. Like you said, we ain't stupid. We see everything.

That Treaty that you mention doesn't mean much if Japan is the instigator. Or if the disputed territory doesn't involve sovereignty rights of Japan. Show me where Japan has the sovereignty rights of those disputed islands!!! You can't because there were none. And who ELECTED to nationalize these islands (meaning claiming ownership and sovereignty rights when you don't have any)? Japan did. So clearly Japan is the instigator in this case. You can't convince anyone otherwise. How do you nationalize something that you can't show legal ownership of?

With that premise, I will say this again, I guarantee no US President, majority of senate member, congressional member or majority of US public will support and military conflict against China. Not now, not never over Japan. Maybe its even a little bit prejudicial as food for thought. Japan is an Asian nation, you think the majority of America will bleed for you? Something for you to ponder. I don't have a stance either way but its worth mentioning because this whole nonsensical and stupendous dispute isn't really about anything but pride and race. And from the people I know who are in the say, there is no chance for war between US and China over these tiny islands in dispute between China and Japan. Know this, we do recognize there is a conflict and dispute between China and Japan over this disputed islands. That's why we tell you guys to deal with it diplomatically on your own.

You want protection, try to instigate China to make the first move to fire a bullet then you might have a chance. Its the easiest move of all, put a live person on the island and boom, you've got what you want. Japan could've done this for decades and the mere fact that it refuses to do so is precisely because deep down, Japan knows it doesn't own these islands.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Hgiball7 writes well. But remember Japanese don't understand English well. They might just do as you suggested and send someone to the Diaoyus. They have already publicly said that they might do just that!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

highball7Sep. 16, 2013 - 05:43PM JST Ossan, Asian closest ally to us doesn't equate to CLOSEST ally to us. If you think Japan is on the same level of importance >with Israel, YOU are gravely mistaken.

Sorry but it is you who is gravely mistaken. Israel; is not under the US Nuclear Umbrella, but Japan is.

The 7th fleet has been and is currently HQed in Japan as a forward deploy HQ. Its mean target is North Korea, Russia >and China in that order when it was first designated as FDOB. Also we stationed these bases in Japan some 50 odd >years ago isn't for the sole reason of deterrance of the Soviets but as an occupying force IN Japan to control Japan >and PREVENT Japan from another nationalistic movement.

You are not keeping up with the times. The US has not had forces in Japan to "control Japan" since 1950. If that were the case why did we force Japan to create the JSDF then? While North Korea remains an issue, Russia for the most part does not. The 7th Fleet's major concern is Communist China, their aspirations on Taiwan and now the entire South and East China Seas.

I hope we never leave Japan because who knows what you guys might do with your craziness for pride and >expansion.

I think you have the roles backwards. I am and support the United States. You are and support Communist China. So who are "you guys"?

Be clear on the purpose of these bases. They are NOT solely situated for the benefit of Japan. You are the least of >our concern which might be a good thing for you if Japan stays as a pacifist nation. The more right Japan turns, I think >it will see MORE US involvement militarily in and around Japan. Like you said, we ain't stupid. We see everything.

The US bases are in Japan to protect Japan under the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty, and they are there to support US strategic dominance in the region, something your country has openly declared an intent to replace with themselves.

That Treaty that you mention doesn't mean much if Japan is the instigator. Or if the disputed territory doesn't involve >sovereignty rights of Japan. Show me where Japan has the sovereignty rights of those disputed islands!!! You can't >because there were none. And who ELECTED to nationalize these islands (meaning claiming ownership and >sovereignty rights when you don't have any)? Japan did. So clearly Japan is the instigator in this case. You can't >convince anyone otherwise. How do you nationalize something that you can't show legal ownership of?

Japan can not be the "instigator" constitutionally., And even if that is changed, democratic countries do not instigate conflicts. Authoritarian dictatorships bent on military and territorial expansion do however. Sovereignty is not the issue. Who administers the territory is what counts. The Japanese government bought 3 of the 5 islands from Japanese civilians. Only a war mongering thief could construe that as an "instigation".

With that premise, I will say this again, I guarantee no US President, majority of senate member, congressional >member or majority of US public will support and military conflict against China. Not now, not never over Japan. >Maybe its even a little bit prejudicial as food for thought. Japan is an Asian nation, you think the majority of America >will bleed for you? Something for you to ponder. I don't have a stance either way but its worth mentioning because this >whole nonsensical and stupendous dispute isn't really about anything but pride and race. And from the people I know >who are in the say, there is no chance for war between US and China over these tiny islands in dispute between >China and Japan. Know this, we do recognize there is a conflict and dispute between China and Japan over this disputed islands. That's why we tell you guys to deal with it diplomatically on your own.

You are not in a position to guarantee anything, much less global geopolitical events. Nor do you have a grasp of American views or even the nature of our people. Just saying what you thing with force does mot make it true. In fact it defies what is going on in reality. China recognizes that the United States will invoke Article 5 of the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty. They have been told so by the US Sec of State and Sec of Defense. China has been told that they may not take the Senkakus by force. China accepts this as truth as they have whined and cried over it. Why are you having difficulty accepting a fact that even the Chinese government has accepted? If they did not believe it we would be seeing PLANavy ships at the Senkakus. I haven't seen any, have you?

You want protection, try to instigate China to make the first move to fire a bullet then you might have a chance. Its the >easiest move of all, put a live person on the island and boom, you've got what you want. Japan could've done this for >decades and the mere fact that it refuses to do so is precisely because deep down, Japan knows it doesn't own these >islands.

China is the only country instigating conflicts with their Asian neighbors. Japan will in due course put personnel on the islands which they administer and therefore have a legal right to do, If China wants to start a war over it, they will be starting a war with the United States. I can "guarantee, as you do" that China will not do so as they are not prepared for a war or the consequences. End of discussion please don't bother repeating your CCP propaganda.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Should U.S. be compelled to defend Japan for an indefinite period without reciprocity? The problem is, while it is generally agreed that China is a potential adversary, it is not openly hostile to Japan and U.S. to the extent that the Soviet Union and Maoist China were. In fact, Chinese and Japanese strategic interests, particularly concerning trade and reliance on freedom of the seas, are often very similar. China is Japan's number one trading partner, and Japan is China's third. The economies of both countries rely heavily on one another. Now, what happens when the alliance views China through its outdated means? China is not the Soviet Union.

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This is Insane! Washington needs to re-read the U.S.- Japan Treaty and protect Japan's boarders and stop playing the middle man on this issue.

Look I know Wall Street has BILLIONS tied up with Beijing but that is a Capital Venture taken on by Wall Street and those Ventures should have NO INFLUENCE in Foreign Policy...oh wait don't let me say the Magic Word - PUTIN!

OMG, he's just like Beetlejuice now, if you say Vladimir Putin's name 3 times, he'll pop out of nowhere like Beetlejuice...

PUTIN PUTIN PUTIN...And there he is...standing on the Senkakku Islands brokering a deal.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

highball, Japan is under the US nuclear umbrella. Israel is not. Just as Israel is the most important US ally in the middle east, Japan is the most important US ally in East Asia. We forced Japan to create the JSDF in 1950. The US 7th Fleet hasn't been in Japan to "prevent Japan from aggression in 63 years. The focus of the 7th fleet is no longer the USSR. In fact even North Korea has taken a second seat to China and the threat it poses to Taiwan. and now to the entire South and East China Seas. China is the only country displaying craziness for expansion and considered the biggest threat in Asia. The purposes of our bases is to serve US global interests which include defense of our allies, including Japan under the US-Japan Mutual Defense Treaty. Japan can not be an instigator as their constitution prohibits it. And even if changed, no democratic country instigates conflicts with others, only authoritarian ones do. Such as China. While no geopolitical event can be guaranteed by anyone, what can be said for certain is that the US has told China it may not take the Senkakus by force, and China continues to avoid sending any PLAN ships to the Senkakus. This is clear evidence that China is neither ready or willing to start a war with the United States.Japan should, and most probably will station personnel on the islands as any country can legally put people on territory they administer. China will have to stat preparing an excuse to it's nationalist population why they could not do anything about it. Of course China will have no one to blame but itself for continuing to refuse talks and carrying out this silly non-stop harassment program.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

US created all this mess all over the world, from South Americas, Middle East and SEA.

The US Has Special Operations Forces in How Many Countries?

The Bush administration had special operations forces in 60 countries. Today, that number is 75—and it's rising. http://www.zompist.com/latam.html —By Nick Turse

Nick Turse is a historian, investigative journalist, the associate editor of TomDispatch.com, and a senior editor at Alternet.org. His latest book is The Case for Withdrawal from Afghanistan (Verso Books). You can follow him on Twitter @NickTurse, on Tumblr, and on Facebook. This article is a collaboration between Alternet.org and TomDispatch.com. To stay on top of important articles like these, sign up to receive the latest updates from TomDispatch.com here.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

ridiculous. the us should push mainland china prc to announce a date for multiparty elections. this nonense of "pushing diplomacy" is like the fools who cheered neville chamberlain, peace in our time with the nazis bunk. japan is a free multiparty democracy. thats real strength. prc china is brittle bamboo ready to break if the green shoots dont grow without being aborted. but the ccp/prc bund is not a "fair minded democratic ally" like japan. its an enemy of free minded souls. join the real free world my friends. vote, vote, vote.

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Jay que, you can talk about your "multiparty democracy" to Indian and see what they say.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Maybe Chinese would forget Islands if Japan would share surrounding natural resources with them

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

25psotSep. 17, 2013 - 09:50PM JST Maybe Chinese would forget Islands if Japan would share surrounding natural resources with them

That would be true if the natural resources were the only motive for China's behavior. While that was the obvious motive back in 1970 when China first made a claim. today it is a crucial part of the Chinese navy's plan to break the first island chain, ie; get access to the Pacific in order to challenge the United States. It is also an important fuel for nationalism which the Chinese government uses to keep their populace in order and minds off the numerous domestic problems, including a now starting to decline economic growth rate.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

OssanAmerica, your hatred toward China has run deep making you blind from the reality. You don’t see that Japan is being used to create tension and chaos in Asia so that reliance on the US would be increased both in terms of powers and arm sales. “Pivot to Asia” comes with a price that is chaos and destruction in the area just like in the Middle East. The question is how come Japan would let the US lead it by the nose. If you think it is because of the territorial dispute and natural resources, you should think again. It all has to do with the political gains by the LDP which also serves the US interest. Territorial disputes are not new, they did not just happen recently; in fact the disputes have existed for many decades. China has kept a lid on the islands issue with Japan for decades until last year when Japan decided to open the lid itself. So to say that china displays “craziness for expansion” has little logic to it. Recently China has started drilling for oil close to the area but still within China’s territory, notice that Japan also complained because it directly undermined the theory of China only seeking natural resources there. China has always said the islands dispute would last a long time and it was up to the future generation to resolve the issue, so the theory of there being strategic location is not that strong either. China has always uphold the “peaceful rise” policy, as long as there is no third party interference everything will fall into place on its own, just like Taiwan which is now more receptive to unification with China, and now most ASEAN also see China in the better light and seek closer ties with China. Recently China has started to engineer its economy so that its growth would be lower, this will help the world by creating the consumer base economy so that it can be served as the largest market in the world, but some people are naïve to think that China is in decline. China is on the path to become the largest economy in the world and this makes some countries jealous especially Japan and the US. Do you believe that China has no enemy in the world and we can’t say this for other super powers? “Actions speak louder than words,” China has been building trust all over the world from its more mature responses to Japan’s smearing and more aggressive tactics. If you notice you will see that China only responds to the issues created by Japan in all cases, China has never been the initiator of any issues with Japan. Any country would have done more than China did in protecting its own territory. China just wants to assert its sovereignty over the islands and there is nothing wrong with that. Don’t get it wrong that China refuses talks; remember that China was the one who arranged a brief meeting between Xi and Abe. The problem here is that who can tolerate Japan when it keeps bad-mouthing and displaying inconsiderate actions toward its neighbours.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan and China are likely to engage in a growing security competition in coming years that could prove destabilizing to the region and making things worse to the interests of both countries Japan and China need to prioritize skillful diplomacy and implement mutual security reassurances. Japan’s defense response to China is likely to be restrained. Various domestic influences, constitutional constraints, political and bureaucratic factors, and budgetary limitations, will limit growth in Japanese military and capabilities. However, Japan’s extensive economic interests with China are likely to act as stabilizer for the relationship.

In a near future, Japan's military will most likely deploy on its southwest islands that will have capability to obstruct Chinese naval transit to the ocean beyond the first island chain during a future crisis or conflict. China would emphasize cooperation and accommodation with Japan, although it would still be unlikely to make major concessions on Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

flowers your bias towards the Chinese dictatorship and hatred for Japan and the United States causes you to parrot the official CCP line. The US pivot to Asia was not some idea that came out of nowhere. It is the result of the Chinese government and Chinese military's own statements and declarations reflecting Chinas intent to take over the entire South and East China Seas, and to replace the United States as the dominant strategic power in the region. This has been coming out of China as early as 2003 and the US pivot also answers to the calls of our Asian allies who consider China to be the biggest threat in the region. All of this readily available on various news sources, expect for the Chinese state controlled sources which appear to form the basis of your arguments. China fooled the world with their claim of a "peaceful rise" but their actions towards their neighbors have exposed their true nature, a one-part authoritarian dictatorship bent on military and territorial expansion. There isn't a country on this planet that buys that line anymore.

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OssanAmerica, you seem to have a conflicting idea and logic here. It is funny that you based your argument on “the result of the Chinese government and Chinese military's own statements and declarations reflecting Chinas intent to take over the entire South and East China Seas, and to replace the United States as the dominant strategic power in the region.” Either you were confused or misunderstood China’s intention, it would be extremely stupid to announce to the world of your wicked plans, don’t you think? No country in the world can be easily fooled, and believe me the whole world has been observing the rise of China for decades now. If there is no trust in China, China would not rise to become the world’s second largest economy for only a very short period of time. You seem to think because of the regime China cannot be trusted, but you fail to see that China needs the regime to flourish just like Japan needs LDP which has been in power since the War. And, I can tell you that I don’t hate Japan or the US, I just don’t like the governments which have lied and fooled the peoples all the time. How many times already that the US and J governments got caught lying? I have read the news from various sources and believe me the most lies and deceptions are coming from the US and Japan. From what I can see the biggest threat is the US coming back to Asia and using Japan as its attack dog. China has made sure that this is a multipolar world and the US has better watched out, Asia will not become like the Middle East where millions of people have died because of the US invasion. Trust cannot be based on words alone and China has proved itself to be trustworthy as can be seen by the world agreeing to have closer ties with China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

flowers, I am neither confused nor misunderstanding anything. And neither are all the western news sources. China had a chance to literally become the leader of Asia for the next century. But it blew it big time. China has grown to where it is now because other nations not only trusted but actively supported China's growth. All that is changing now, the Chinese economy is no longer going to grow as it has, and the bread and butter for China so far, the global manufacturing base is vanishing. China now turns to militarism and nationalism to keep the minds of it's people off of their many dissatisfactions with the government. You don't like governments that lie to the people? Then the CCP government, which can never be voted out of power, should be on top of your list. You are very much mistaken in your belief that "Chinas needs the CCP regime in order to flourish". In fact, a democratic China could indeed flourish and the standard of living of the vast majority of Chinese could improve, not just the select few. If you believe in authoritarianism then stick with it. But the United States has had and continues to have an agenda to spread democratic ideals. This by definition alone put the US at odds with the Chinese dictatorship. There are a great many Chinese both in and outside of China who would love to see China as a democracy. People who have nothing to lose or protect usually do not feel this way. Good night.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Problem with China is that in a less than 15 to 20 years, they will be importing 80 percent of the oil needs. Why do you think China has prioritize securing resources in countries such as Angola and Sudan, where state-owned Chinese companies have invested billions of dollars.Many regimes in places like Africa have welcomed China’s no-strings-attached aid and loans packages compared with those offered by Western donors and international organizations. It's clear that Chinese investment in oil-rich nations such as Venezuela and Africa includes soft-seeming loans with fewer human rights, governance or transparency ‘strings’ attached, but with requirements that much of the funding be used to contract Chinese state owned enterprises to build infrastructure. This policy of building global relationship can backfire when the ties are to individual autocratic leaders.

On the other hand, U.S. oil production also jumped substantially last year on shale boom, and U.S. will be the biggest oil producer by 2020, and they are reducing its need for crude oil imports and decreasing its dependence on the OPEC oil cartel. U.S. is no longer dependent on overseas oil, and U.S. might re-evaluate its policy toward the Middle East or even Venezuela.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Funny no mention on Japantoday about the anneversary of Japan's invasion of China.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Tiger_in_The Hermitage, are you talking about 9.18? Criminals never want to mention/remember the date in which they commited criminals, do they?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

All rational nations commemorate the ending of wars and conflict. When an old war began is not "news" in most countries. But China? Noooo they prefer the start. Good way to keep hate alive forever.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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