U.S. sending 2 warships to Japan to counter N Korea; warns China

Scott, While I am suspicious of the Peoples Republic of China do not believe they want a atomic war. Even if they "win" the majority of the people in the PRC will be dead.

@Wulfe N. Straat

That is more then likely why china has and is building a massive tunnel system that is nuclear proof and is 5,000 miles long underground. Its nuclear proof "attack proof" and can even move weapons and a massive army in different directions why under attack "or should i say" away from attack.

I for 1 believe this is a 100% clear signal they are preparing for a war,. I also found it funny when both country agreed to show each other there weapons "and hi tec weapons" as china wanted 2 see them. I believe they did this 2 see what weapons to counter & now know what they do and can now counter them.

As it stands China's growth is so small cutting there growth would have little affect on the world markets, but crush there outlook and there market. India & the west can all chip in and invest in India to mop up the loss of cheap goods being made easy.

We may not be able to cut them off, but can cut there growth and them off once when we see bigger growth in India 5 years after investing $100 billion US Money =-s half a trillion + Indian money..

China's next war will be massive...and it will leave the PRC in shambles.

It will not be with the Philippines, except as an adjunct, nor will it be with Vietnam or Japan, all three of which will take advantage of the opportunity to carve out their respective stakes and interests in the West Philippine Sea and in the East China Sea. This massive war, with millions of casualties, will be between two nuclear powers, which may not restrict themselves to conventional weapons.

But, it won't be a war with the US, which will manage to stay on the sidelines. China's next war is with India...over water. As China continues to waste and pollute its own rivers and lakes, it will criminally divert and dam up rivers that flow into India, and which the Indian people have relied upon for thousands of years. Because water-stress is already acute in China, the CCP has no choice but to find water for its populace wherever it can...even if it means stealing it from more than a billion people on the subcontinent.

Without a choice, because it literally means life or death for hundreds of thousands of Indians, New Delhi will demand redress of the situation while, as a fallback position, aligning their military and commercial interests with Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, et. al. Of course, as intransigent as ever, Beijing will refuse to return the flow of those rivers to India. After all, China has acquired an unquenchable need for fresh water for its cities, its agriculture and its factories.

When China refuses to back down, blustering in the same empty fashion as it has been doing for the last twelve years, India will initiate the war by bombing the dams, canals and pipelines on the Tibetan plateau. Tibetans will join the war, seeing an opportunity for independence. This will occur almost simultaneously with another war front in East Turkmenistan, as the Uyghurs also see a chance for independence. By then, Uyghurs all across China will step up a plague of terrorist activities, with the Mongols and Huis and Manchurians making their presence known.

When the Taiwanese Liberation Movement sees its chance to be rid of the PRC's parasitic influence, they will follow Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines into this regional war for a chance at the spoils. Hong Kong and Macau will provide the Allies with whatever support they can to rid themselves of the cockroach CCP, including landing platforms for invasion. Throughout, the US will be monitoring China for any expression of a nuclear response. Should one appear, the US will destroy those missiles in their silos. We have the technology, and we won't let the world be poisoned in nuclear waste by Chinese one-upmanship for the sake of misplaced pride.

When the war is done, there will no longer be a PRC. By then, there will be a free Tibet, a free East Turkmenistan, a free Manchuria, a united Mongolia, an independent Macau, an independent Hong Kong and an independent Taiwan. The Han Chinese, who colonized Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria and East Turkmenistan will be resettled into the three new countries carved out of the original China before the PRC. These Han countries are the Yellow River Federation, the Yangtze People's Republic and the Oriental Pearl.

And then, when all is said and done, including a war crimes trial for the PLA generals and the CCP leaders, we'll finally have peace in Asia.

It should be other way around as Japan can not mess with PRC due to very small population. Japan population of 2013 is 126.66 millions. Mainland China population is 1,362,391,575.

Irrelevant. As I've already stated, China's larger army is not going to be any sort of advantage in a potential war. The JASDF, JMSDF and JGSDF are better equipped and better trained. Tactics and discipline will always best numbers. History has taught us this time and again. The Battle of Thermopylae for example. Three hundred Spartans used tactics to deal major damage to the Persian Army. Or what about the Siege of Troy? A significantly greater army was forced to besiege Troy because they simply lacked the tactics to take it quickly. Numbers count for nothing against superior tactics.

I doubt very much that China will pay any attention to this warning from the US. They want the Senkaku islands, so they'll have to ignore the warning to achieve that. North Korea will only see this as yet another act of aggression and oppression from the "decadent" USA. Two peas in a pod those two. Someone hand me a bucket, those two make me sick.

US must leave every limit of peace treaty on weapons and ships for Japan. Nihon needs to build a real blue navy with nuclear submarines,aircraft carriers,destroyers and, yes,nuclear weapons to became military regional power and leader of a regional military alliance to counter ambitions of China,NK and Russia. Japan must became permanent member of NU Security Council to balance veto of Russia and China in regional crisis in Asia.

@FizzBit Democracy must win. America has 2 do bad to beat bad. Its like playing cards with a hidden hand. How can you win if they keep cheating???

Saying that its to give people rights and for them 2 see how they are being used.

I mean America is no god but if they were in U.S shoes they would be 1 million times as bad as America 100%.

Its rights and to be free, not to have a face gov that is funded buy a evil country that hates them.

Back on topic please.

WOW! Way over the top Scott. You should remember that this whole thing was initiated with 5 billion US dollars over a ten year period that led to a CIA coup in the Ukraine.

North Korea needs to be takeout ASAP. The worst case is NK blow up some nuclear bombs on them self "and" we just make it rain "using chemicals" to wash lots of it back down, before it gets into the jet stream.

Over all NK only has 4 - 5 ww2 size nuclear bombs left, and they can not make the nuclear bombs sit on a missile for another 8 years or so. NK can only really shells SK main city, and 2 counter that America & SK need to make cheap sk made "blimps" to fill the sky's ahead on the main city going very hi up. America can take out there NK artillery cannons within 16 hours, and Seoul will have very small damage.

As for NK nuclear weapons, We can even look at the weather before hand, and ether wash it down on there land or over the sea slowly "as it disburse over the ocean". We can wait to its over the sea and then start washing it down in mid size patches, to stop it from going around the glob "& can also make a area of the seat" not so contaminated in a large pool or radiation.

America should put a system like this together, and we can use missiles & bombers to drop chemicals 2 wash it down "stopping a massive amount getting into the jet stream". 4 ww2 size nuclear bombs blowing up "and a small bit getting in the jet stream" will be 100% fine. Once in the jet stream it will disburse around the world "2 hi up" to wash back down and its disbursed anyway.

As For China and Russia cutting there markets back is a good way to slow them down. If we the west can start to get new gas and oil supply's for EU, then Russia will go bust. OPEC does limit the amount of oil on the market, to keep the price hi as possible. If Russia did cut back or over charge EU, then OPEC can let them country pump out more oil or like Saudi Arabia did for America, they can boost prediction why we the west can even make "cut backs" on oil and gas Supplies unto more gas and oil is pumped out..

If Russia losses its market then its gas and oil is the only real income there in big trouble "if 1 of them is replaced".. So saying that if the EU gets a new gas supplier Russia is 2* F'ed.

As it stands now AU is doing a deal with China to send massive amounts of gas by ships to China. We can easily help the EU out & can even cut china back to help them out fast.

We must plan for the future and that is that Putin is a Hitler and steps now must be taken. 1 of them steps is to invest in AU gas and start making the ships & so on to get it 2 the EU, as china is and has started building massive ships to hall the gas.

So we need to First invest in AU and get that gas flowing to the EU. We also need to boarder up on Russia putting "almost" muddy swamps around the borders "stopping and army of tanks moving in" & must more "take 2 long 2 say".

Russia can be countered and Poland and so on must now build up on there boarders and prepare to cut any ties with Russia in the future.

China and Russia can have there markets growth halted "and even cut back 5 - 10%, there for crushing there markets why we can make a investment in India to mop up any loss of output .

There are things that can be done you just have 2 think of it and that's nothing. Russia can be cut back along with china unto they stop it & if they don't know more s of money for them.

Yuri

How ever giving in to them will increase their appetite

Like Japan claiming the all of the Islands of NT from Russia. If Japan has settled with Russia back in 1956, Japan has already got back two Islands. Due to increasing appetite and greed, Japan wants to get Takeshima or Dokko and all of four Islands of NT. Due to following US lecture, Japan is still in the widerness land for making NT dream come true. Abe is dreaming about he will get back all during his term. It is very highly unlikely as winning the lottery.

Japan is a loser of WWII and lost some territories before. If it is keep war mongering, it will lose more like Ukraine or Serbia. Besides that Yokohama and Nagaski are heavily populated with ethnic Han people like Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. It is unwise for Japan for confronting with neighbours. There will be other Crimea will come.

So go ahead and attack Japan and we will teach the aggressive PRC not to mess with Japan!

It should be other way around as Japan can not mess with PRC due to very small population. Japan population of 2013 is 126.66 millions. Mainland China population is 1,362,391,575.

Unless Japan will use the nuke, it can never wipe out such as Ants and Bee like Man power. China can afford to lose more than 200 millions people. However Japan can not afford it. Japanese women birth rate is so low for sustaining Japanese population for another century.

Guru27, Japan will never surrender to the Peoples Republic of China! I do not wish for there to be war over some uninhabited islands. How ever giving in to them will increase their appetite. All of this is to keep the PRC nationals in line and not revolting due to conditions withing their nation. So go ahead and attack Japan and we will teach the aggressive PRC not to mess with Japan!

China is big, pushy and more than a tad arrogant. The smaller Asian countries need to form an alliance and organization similar to NATO. China's smaller neighbors have to stand together and should try to become less dependent on the U.S. miliatary to save them. It'll take some time, but it's the prudent thing to do.

@Fox Cloud Lelean:

Very well said!!

China takes senkakku? Why?

There is little doubt that the retaliation would be punitive and hideously demonstrative, to quote Chief of Pacific Command, Adm. Samuel Locklear. “You will defend yourself until you’re dead.” or Rear Adm. Thomas Rowden, “On the offensive side of the house, we have the electromagnetic rail gun.” If ever diplomacy fails, Adm Locklear and others will be calling the shots. These disputes will be negotiated to a logical conclusion because it is simply in everyone's interest to do so. There will be more huffing and puffing, claims and counter claims, name calling and bluster, we might even have a few more Harry Potter characters thrown in for good measure but rest assured, senkakku will remain uninhabited until Japan and China decide to have a sensible conversation about their future relationship..

This is nothing but a jesture before Obama's imminent visit to Japan.

If china takes senkakku itll be the end of American 7th fleet in Japan

That's the general warning from the Japanese to the Americans. That's if the Americans aren't willing to fight with the Chinese, then all American soldiers should go back home and Japan will cease to be a protectorate of the US from now on.

However, if the Japanese really get defeated by the Chinese in a war, it will mean they are so weak that they will continue to need help from the Americans. Furthermore, if Japan surrenders to China, it will mean Japan will be occupied by the Chinese according to the Potsdam Declaration. As for whether the Americans will continue to occupy Japan, it will be sorted out between the Americans and the Chinese either through war or peaceful negotiation. Furthermore, if the Russians join hands with the Chinese and move down from the north, Japan will also be occupied by the Russians.

So it is very clear that Japan will be the main loser if it dares to go to war with either China or Russia to settle its territorial disputes which had already been settled by the 2 atomic bombs and the various WWII peace treaties/ agreements between Japan and the Allies.

However, at the beginning of the cold-war, many American politicians felt that they had fought with the wrong enemy in a wrong war. The US government then canceled further rounds of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials and released the remaining top WWII criminals from the Sugamo prison and even funded them to help them to regain control of Japan.

In order to make Japan totally isolated by its neighbors and remains helpless and fully dependent on the US, the US government even encouraged/ forced the post-war Japanese government to violate the various WWII peace treaties/ agreements drafted by the US government itself and reclaim territories it lost to the Allies in WWII. That's how Japan's current territorial disputes with its neighbors came about.

For example, in 1956 when high-ranking Soviet and Japanese officials met to negotiate for a peace treaty, Soviet Union proposed to return 2 of the 4 islands to Japan to settle their territorial dispute, this was initially supported by the Japanese foreign minister, Shigemitsu Mamoru. However, when the Americans learnt about it, the US secretary of state, John Foster Dulles (the person in charged of drafting the San Francisco Peace Treaty during MacArthur time) quickly warned Shigemitsu that if Japan dares to comply with the San Francisco Peace Treaty and cede 2 of the 4 islands to Soviet Union, it can say goodbye to the Ryukyu Islands (Okinawa) and the Ryukyus will then be forever part of the US.

As a result, Japan reclaimed all the 4 islands it ceded in the San Francisco Peace Treaty as demanded by the US and has not been able to conclude a peace treaty with Russia to this day.

As for the Liancourt Rocks (Dokdo islands), early US drafts of the San Francisco Peace Treaty explicitly recognized it as part of Korea, but in December 1949 - immediately following the establishment of the PRC, but before the outbreak of the Korean War, US treaty drafts reversed course and assigned the islands to Japan. Even though the actual San Francisco Peace Treaty did not mention about the Dokdo islands, the US government did inform the government of South Korea that it regarded the Dokdo islands as Japanese.

And regarding the Ryukyu Islands (Okinawa), the Americans did reach an agreement with the Chinese to hand over the islands to the UN trusteeship system for future independence during the Cairo conference. This is even mentioned in the San Francisco Peace Treaty. However, after the establishment of the PRC, the US government changed its mind and handed the administration of not only the Ryukyu Islands but also the Diaoyu islands which are further south to Japan in 1972.

As we can see, under US manipulation, Japan has not been able to attain genuine independence even 7 decades after WWII and is still as isolated as before in North-east Asia.

Abe is a real man. Just like Putin

Don't think so. Abe is stupid and he will never be able to restore genuine independence to Japan.

Obama and xinpin have a big mouth. Unlike abe. Abe is a real man. Just like Putin

If china takes senkakku itll be the end of American 7th fleet in Japan

No it won't. If China attempts to take the Senkaku islands, the JMSDF will retake the islands and push the Chinese forces back. America will step in as per the mutual defence pact, and China - having committed a clear act of war - will end up being backed into a corner by the US and Japanese forces. They will have two choices: Surrender peacefully, or suffer a similar defeat to Japan's in WWII. The Chinese Navy is lacklustre at best, second hand Russian ships mostly, and inadequate sailors. The US Navy and JMSDF are two of the best in the world, vastly superior to China. If the respective air forces are called in as well, then China's inevitable defeat will be so much the greater. China's only advantages are the sheer size of its standing army, and the nuclear arsenal it possesses. Neither of which will earn victory.

This is a good move by the US. North Korea is a blatant threat to security in the Pacific region, and they are clearly unstable. China as well shows no respect for its neighbours. Not even for its Korean lapdogs. Peaceful words are falling on deaf ears. Aggressive words have also fallen on deaf ears. Actions speak louder, and the US is making itself heard.

Lol, I thought those two warships would have gone to the black sea.

If china takes senkakku itll be the end of American 7th fleet in Japan

There's a whiff of gunboat diplomacy, the phrase coined by Lord Palmerston (1784-1865), diplomatic speak for impenitent belligerence.

U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagels version come with a 'two pronged warning' to maintain the balance of power, whilst keeping presupposed autocratic nations in check supporting greater stability with a threatening air of resolve. Well that's the theory, the reality is probably allot more complex.

If Hagel is waving a biggish stick, two destroyers and all the associated hardware, then the 'carrot' could be en route courtesy of Barak Obama. Hagel also refers to China as a 'great power'.

If the destroyers are a stick, then the language is twig like.

Hagel told reporters.....

“I think we’re seeing some clear evidence of a lack of respect and intimidation and coercion in Europe today with what the Russians have done with Ukraine', and goes on “We must be very careful and we must be very clear, all nations of the world, that in the 21st century this will not stand, you cannot go around the world and redefine boundaries and violate territorial integrity and sovereignty of nations by force, coercion and intimidation whether it’s in small islands in the Pacific or large nations in Europe.”

If there is a reference to China it is a indirect one, however there is a direct reference to the 'Russians'.

The whiff of gunboat diplomacy could well be for the 'Russians' and the 'big stick' conveyed in a form of diplomatic speak at European governments.

Hagel is pointing the two ships toward North Korea and says so ... “pattern of provocative and destabilizing actions” that violate U.N. resolutions.

It is no secret that 'senior US government officials' refer to the EU governments response as 'lethargic and miniscule', arms sales to Russia have not even been suspended and Angela Merkel responded with a “contact group” of negotiators.

Europe is in a much stronger position than these 'senior US government officials' realise, and past few weeks has shown that losing the entire European energy market will be a political and economic disaster for President Putin much more than higher energy prices will hurt Europe.

In the come weeks US and Europe will find out which approach is successful.

First of all, any move like this is calculated, with every possible contingency thought through by America

Second, there will be a plan with at least some outline of intended outcome.

Third, the tone seems to be sharpening on both sides now, and the appetite to settle scores appears to be greater than previous encounters.

Fourth, which ties into the above, is a shift in attitudes - from avoiding conflict, to a lack of care if conflict actually breaks out. We're all sick of this sh*t. North Korea is a pariah state that we have allowed to bully other nations to its advantage. We are tired of it, because the threat is growing stronger now and there is no good that is going to come of it.

It seems likely that Mr Hagel suspects China will follow Russias example in Ukraine. Previous actions and rhetorics point to such a mindset. If China do then Japan will certainly respond and then all hell breaks loose. With this logic it is simply cheaper for the US to beef up defenses rather than engaging in full war.

More Japanese bull shit!

Chuck Hagel : “I think we’re seeing some clear evidence of a lack of respect and intimidation and coercion in Europe today with what the Russians have done with Ukraine,”

Well said! so why don't you send two more ballistic missile destroyers to Black sea?

"Toys in The sand" as my favorite comedian Carlin used to say.

Two warships means to prepare two missile to China, nothing else. And China will never send troups to land to the disputes islands with Japan, because nothing can put there safetly. So the only choose is to claim them just like China keeps doing now. It is the same with Japan. It is also the same with south China sea, those islets are all two small to land troups, and the only reason to land forces is to keep the resources there being untouched, but China already claim nations relevant can use the resources there together.

So why will China send forces to disputs lsland with Japan and south China sea? without sending forces, why would China think of the two warships or other USA forces as a warn? China already did and is keep doing what they want to do.