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U.S. Treasury criticizes Japan yen intervention

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yep

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Go tell that to the Chinese Communists !

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

USA should have sorted its own mess out first then none of the intervention would have been needed, tell the USA go sit on it.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Thumbs up for ExportExpert!! Well said!

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

This is rich coming from a nation that had let it's own currency on free fall. What was the dollar exchange rate around the same time last year and what is it now?

On top how about some of the reasons why the dollar dropped like a rock like the budget crisis which almost put it into default?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

USA is putting their nose into other's business... Mean.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

We dont need listen to US, they have no clue about how to run economies.There nation is bankrupt, with over 10% unemployed and in debt to the Communists.So many millions of Americans live in extreme poverty. Dont give us any advice, US!

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

issa1:

Go tell that to the Chinese Communists !

USA's been lecturing them for years, but they won't play the docile card. Now it's Japan's turn for another scolding from Uncle Sam, who's fed up with uppity Asians.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It had no effect anyway so who really cares, just showed Japan doesn't know how the world economy works.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Japan should obey the U.S. Know your place, puppet Japan! Now buy our F-35's you puppet!

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

"Excuse me, would you repeat that?"

US is asking too much to Japan..

The timing of this US statement is very interesting. Is this because Mr. Noda sealed the deal with China eliminating US currency in trade transactons-that wll save money for both countries? I am just curious..

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Japan also refused to stop buying oil from Iran.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

ExportExpert USA should have sorted its own mess out first then none of the intervention would have been needed, tell the USA go sit on it.

Gurukun Thumbs up for ExportExpert!! Well said!

Japan continually runs trade surpluses and relies on exporting itself out of recession, rather than creating a healthy domestic demand. Nobody wants to see a return to the dark 1930's currency wars of 'begger thy neighbour', but Japan is taking us there with her currency manipulation and she, with her export driven economy, is the last nation who would want to. This world economic crises will only be truly resolved when some sort of balance between nation manufacturers( read Asia) and nation consumers (read The West) is put into place. Japan with its 50 year old one party trick of 'export export export' is making the world crises worst. Mercantilism, from its birth, has the seeds of its own destruction, if it is continued as the only policy. Eventually, if the natural order of the markets operate, the currency will rise to such a level that an alternative model to exports is needed. Japan, thru currency manipulation, and Germany, thru the Euro crises, are just trying to keep the mercantile model operating, long after its sell-by-date. This has nothing to do with US economic policies.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Forgot to add to my post that is important;

Noda agreed to purchase Chinese Bond from the trade surplus from now on.This is a big blow to US Treasury. US cannot blame Japan as the value of dollar may continue to decline. I am sure FED will come up with another QE3 in near future as Japan will not buy aggressively like they used to do. Many JT bloggers do not like Noda, but he has been doing a damn good job. The market today was quite different because of Noda. Hope he can do the same with India. Go Noda.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The US treasury should think about the dollars intervention before talking.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ Dog

If the US starts creating something within her domestic borders to export that people wants around the world then your argument may hold water until then it's a pie in the sky plan.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

This has nothing to do with US economic policies.

No, it has everything to do with US economic politics. The present government wants imports as expensive as possible because it thinks this is the way to save US jobs and mid-to-small industries. Democrats in the US have historically been in favor of this kind of protectionism.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

SamuraiBlue @ Dog If the US starts creating something within her domestic borders to export that people wants around the world then your argument may hold water until then it's a pie in the sky plan.

Its not that The US has to start exporting anything to anyone. The US can quite happily and with ease manufacture and produce for its own market. It's that others have to stop relying on exporting to the US for their prosperity and create their own domestic markets. Japan does this and has done this, with others (Germany and Korea for example), by manipulating the true value of their currency.

The Japanese have to ease up on the government being the prime consumer of Japanese society, by lowering taxes, raising the standard of living of the average Japanese (legislate to ensure housing is both well spaced and affordable for example) and increasing the quality of life for the average Japanese (legislate strictly on a 40 hour working week and all holidays are taken).

Basically, in layman's terms, Japan has to change into a consumer society with a developed service and information economy, and get away from this present neo-mercantilist economy.

This currency manipulation serves nobody and delays the inevitable; irrelevent of what economic / fiscal policies the US does or doesn't follow in the future.

Simple.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Dog you be barking up the wrong tree

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Rather than reacting to domestic ‘strong yen’ concerns by intervening to try to influence the exchange rate, Japan should take fundamental and thoroughgoing steps to increase the dynamism of the domestic economy, increase the competitiveness of Japanese firms—including those in utilities and services—and raise potential growth.

Or we can just do both.

But actually, that sounds like some advice the US could take as well.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Go tell that to the Chinese Communists !

no, on the contrary same report says that China is not currency manipulator. Only that Yuan appreciation has been too slow, calling it "insufficient", what a soft and diplomatic language (!)

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Dog

The Japanese have to ease up on the government being the prime consumer of Japanese society, by lowering taxes, raising the standard of living of the average Japanese (legislate to ensure housing is both well spaced and affordable for example) and increasing the quality of life for the average Japanese (legislate strictly on a 40 hour working week and all holidays are taken).

Basically, in layman's terms, Japan has to change into a consumer society with a developed service and information economy, and get away from this present neo-mercantilist economy.

Isn't that what got the US in the heap of trouble in the first place? US being able to provide it's own? Show me a place that actually produces consumer electronic goods from the bottom up in complete packaging in the US. US cannot provide herself let alone provide goods to the international consumers would want.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@SamuraiBlue Isn't that what got the US in the heap of trouble in the first place?

No, the US problem is a tax base problem, rather than a problem of credit or expenditure. Unlike Europe, the US Federal government has no problem selling its bonds. Unlike Japan, the US consumer accounts for over 60% of US GDP.

@SamuraiBlue Show me a place that actually produces consumer electronic goods from the bottom up in complete packaging in the US. US cannot provide herself let alone provide goods to the international consumers would want

There's acually quite a few. B and K Components and Legacy Audio to name 2, but you should venture onto whybuymadeinusa.com for a more comprehensive list.

By the way, I am not an American but BS should be called by what it is and Japan, with its whys and whens of intervening in the currency market is exactly that. Japan's present economic problems have very little to do with a 'strong' Yen. In the early 2000s Japan was allowed to greatly weaken its Yen so that the two-tier Japanese economy (foreign exports and domestic) could remedy the problems of the domestic one wiith the increased revenue from the foreign one.

Did Koizumi reform the domestic economy? Did he hell. He made it worse by impoverishing the Japanese worker through legislating changes in the work contract in the hope that Japan might hold on to its manufacturing base in direct competition with developing economies.

In Japan we are in this present economic mess because of the missed opportunities of the LDP in 2001 -2005. America is quite right, this Yen is only strong relative to the Y133 levels of 2002. In real economic terms, in 2011, Japan is a net creditor and Yen should probably be stronger, if not for the Japanese government's currency manipulation.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The Chinese now is anything but communist, so kindly refrain from insulting the communist.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Dream on as the US chalk up more trade deficit. The US simply does not have the power and more importantly lack of will to produce for herself.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Compare the price of big macs both in japan and america and then get back to me.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

USA frantically printing money to bail out its banks started the yen rising astronomically, if the USA had its house in order to begin with things would have been different.

Obama said he wanted the US to start manufacturing & exporting again and makes sure the $ goes through the floor to achieve his goal, the japanese intervene to try to level the playing field.

All was going well till the USA's boil on its arse burst in 2008.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Considering the exchange rate was around 240 yen to the dollar just 20 years ago, I can understand the Japanese gov't intervening when the yen fals below 80 yen.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

ExportExpert All was going well till the USA's boil on its arse burst in 2008.

That;s the point...... it wasn't

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Is the US still a major shareholder in GM?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Dog

Go watch this to see why your argument is SO wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-KVieLh9Uc

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

SerranoDec. Considering the exchange rate was around 240 yen to the dollar just 20 years ago, I can understand the Japanese gov't intervening when the yen fals below 80 yen.

In June 1995 it was at Y83 to the dollar and would have remained close to there, if Japan had not been allowed to weaken the Yen through currency intervention.

Like I said a weak Yen was G7 policy throuugh the late 90's and early 21st Century, with the explicit understanding that Japan would use the breather of more exports to reform its domestic economy, The economic crises of now, for Japan, is the missed opportunities of transforming away from an export driven economy.

Now that breather has gone and all the world is having a bad time, and nobody is going to give Japan another breather through allowing her to manipulate her currency exchange rate.

The Japanese Yen is only strong now relative to the artificially weak rates it was allowed to have at the beginning of this century. Again, Mercantilism leads to its own destruction because a creditor nation's currency will eventually rise and a debtor's nation currency will accordingly lower. Japan is the biggest foreign currency creditor nation in the world .... ergo sum.......

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Bad SamuraiBlueDec. @Dog Go watch this to see why your argument is SO wrong.

I watched the whole series of that documentary (2 episodes) when they originally came out and either your comprehension skills are a bit shakey or you're being sarcastic.

That series totally reinforces my argument of a global disbalance in trade as being the origin of this crises, rather than any specific policy followed by the US government.

His points are that Chinese (and German) people work very hard and save half their salary and don't spend or create a domestically driven market. For the last 25 years, the West have imported the savings of these exporters to fund their lifestyles.

Of course he could and should include Japan with Germany and China, but he just ignores Japan.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Not an economics expert by far, but it seems the Yen is very low right now, in turn harming the producers and exporters, as the high Yen makes Japanese products more expensive abroad. In the current global economic environment the vast majority of people don't have the luxury of choosing between Hyundai or Honda or Sharp vs LG anymore. When all the export earnings are repatriated Japan Inc. is losing billions because of the strong Yen. Now, I also do see that Japan must do something to invigorate domestic consumption... is it possible that the home market is already flooded .... that the Japanese people don't need to buy high end products because they already have them? If so.. then what is the solution?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dog

I really do not understand how you were able to come up with such a screwed up understanding that the document had put up simply saying that the WEST WAS WRONG in believing that they can barrow themselves out of debt in which includes the US. The US with the TRIPLE deficit (Federal Budget, Trades and Household) is the sheer epitome of how a nation can go wrong. The only reason why the US is able to manage how they can is because the dollar being the transaction currency of oil which I had already elaborated in another thread.

That is why the US cannot allow Iran succeed in what they are trying to do and will stop at nothing in stopping them but basically the game is over for the US since Russia had already announced that they will follow Iran's example so there is no way the US can change the tide.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

haha that hypocritical, of them, they continue to print mountains of $cash knowing that it will devalve the $ making there exports cheaper, then they have the cheek to be annoyed at the Japanese when they intervene. pot calling the kettle black!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Kentaro75 dont start bashing America on there economic mismanagement, Japanese economy is in just as bad shape. the day the America economy collapses is about 3 days before the Japanese does also. just remember every person in Japan currently owes the government $80,000+ in taxes to pay off the huge debt which is actually the highest in the developed world.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Two points here, japanese domestic market is flooded they dont need a new 50 inch tv they already have them, they have all the latest goods that's what the govt eco points thing was, get the domestic economy going.

Where can they spend money in japan on what? The economy here cant be stimulated by households.

Second point is the japanese debt is owed by japan to japan, the american debt isnt american owned.

America continues to try to print its way out of a bad economy but doesnt want anyone else to, again we see double standards from the yankie doodle dandys.

America's and the worlds economic problems go way back to about when they started lending to any one who wanted it, they wrote up the value of the property to get equity and gain finance, back in the 70s and th 80s car dealers did the same thing on cars. eg Lets call this car $13,000 when it is only really $10,000 we can then show the finance company you have $3,000 equity so they'll lend the rest. high interest rates on over valued property, the finance company then sells the loan to a third party for a lesser value, but still makes money coz of the over inflated rates and value.

Same thing on houses in the 80s 90s and into the next decade, now the pigeons came home to roost the propertys wernt worth the over inflated value at all, lots of people who had property should not have because they wernt financially qualified in the first place, same with cars way back in the 80s etc there were tons and tons of repossesions (i know i was a repo man back in those days) coz they were all over financed and the buyers couldnt afford the payments. Finance kills, pay cash or dont buy.

Japan has borrowed from its citizens and they wont be calling in the debt anytime soon. America and europe are the trouble.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ExportExpert Two points here, japanese domestic market is flooded they dont need a new 50 inch tv they already have them, they have all the latest goods that's what the govt eco points thing was, get the domestic economy going.

That's just bollocks. For a people mostly living in 2 room shoe boxes and being at their place of work from 6 in the morning to 11 at night 300 days a year it has a certain truth, but if Japan were a true middle-class society, then the Japanese household are far from saturated with electronic devices. The average japanese urban dwelling, being so small, has 1 TV, 1 stereo, 1 air conditioner and 1 family computer.

If the government were to spend a little of that money it keeps pouring into shinkansens to nowhere on better and more spacious housing - something along the lines of every family member has a right to a bedroom of their own - and was to legislate on quality building construction and fair rent charges, then I'm sure the average Japanese dwelling would have 2-3 TVs, 3 ACs, 2-3 stereos and a couple of computers to boot.

Don't get me started on enforcable work legislation that limits the working week to 40 hours and severe penalties for companies who break them, creating a consumer leisure boom unheard of in Japanese history.

The present system was created in the 50's and 60's to stifle the appetites of the Japanese consumer and hasn't changed since.

The world economy has.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Well, "poo poo" on them! I am glad someone did something to stop my US$ income here from becoming totally useless like toy money!!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Chinese now is anything but communist, so kindly refrain from insulting the communist.

Exactly, now China is paradise of the capitalists and hell of the poor! The four small stars by that big one(=communist party) supposed to be capitalist, landlord, businessmen and the like but labor, farmer... etc. Fathers of Chinese communist party must have cried loudly in their grave.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@issa1 ..ExportImport..and the rest.... Hi 5 . You said it right. The sleeping giant has awakened and business oriented chinese did their homework. Blame this global economic mess to Uncle Sam.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dog and where to you propose they build these large houses with 3 bedrooms for everyone? Fukushima Iwate?

And not everyone lives in a one room box either as it is, round my area there all 3 and 4 bedroom houses with more than 1 tv and a/con, couple of cars etc.

You make it sound like they live 10 to a room when in fact we know most people do have their own room.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

ExportExpert Dog and where to you propose they build these large houses with 3 bedrooms for everyone? Fukushima Iwate?

Proper zoning and proper house building legislation. Contrary to myth, Japan is not the most populated land mass in the world, far from it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Exactly, now China is paradise of the capitalists and hell of the poor! The four small stars by that big one(=communist party) supposed to be capitalist, landlord, businessmen and the like but labor, farmer... etc. Fathers of Chinese communist party must have cried loudly in their grave.

@yosun. It is becoming hell for the poor and the middle class here in America too. Don't turn a blind eye. You think it is all flowers and rainbows in the USA?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Many intellectual and analytical posts, especially from Dog, and I appreciate that.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Proper zoning and proper house building legislation. Contrary to myth, Japan is not the most populated land mass in the world, far from it.

And contrary to the popular myth, Japan is not the least spacious in terms of residence, either.

In any case, what is U.S. saying? Don't buy U.S. debt???

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dog has a thorough grasp of the situation and I for one value his posts.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The US elites want only what is good for them, no matter how it impacts elsewhere. I echo the opinion that the yen is high only because the US is so completely dismal, but I would add that Japan is truely great. Just returned from the US. Yep, soft, soft, soft.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Dog: I've read through all of your posts carefully and I have to say you've put together some of the most informed, rational arguments I've seen on a JT thread recently.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

If the government were to spend a little of that money it keeps pouring into shinkansens to nowhere on better and more spacious housing - something along the lines of every family member has a right to a bedroom of their own - and was to legislate on quality building construction and fair rent charges, then I'm sure the average Japanese dwelling would have 2-3 TVs, 3 ACs, 2-3 stereos and a couple of computers to boot.

Don't get me started on enforcable work legislation that limits the working week to 40 hours and severe penalties for companies who break them, creating a consumer leisure boom unheard of in Japanese history.

The present system was created in the 50's and 60's to stifle the appetites of the Japanese consumer and hasn't changed since.

The world economy has.

@Dog, all your posts are hitting nails on the head. I just hope Jgov starts focusing more on domestic spending to improve a quality of life for people.

When Japanese friends come here and spend some free time with me, they often ask me how I can do this while I am maintaining a humble and a simple retirement life style in a spacious place. They all say they are living in shoe box size apartments and they are working too hard like dogs, leaving no free time with families. Japanese hospital quality care is 20 years behind. Every place is too crowded with a sea of people and traffic. Japan needs a big change as you have stated. They are still living in the 60th standards IMHO. They work all their life for pieces of lumber " a shoe box house". I totally agree with everything you said. Your post reminds me a story of "Naked Price" of Japan. Hope Jgov starts focusing on domestic spending to improve a quality of life for PEOPLE. It is nothing to do with an idea of buying a "Gucci" bag. Thank you for your great posts with a macro perspective.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Every democratic nation has a right to do what it wants with their currency. Issue here is that U.S. wants to govern Japan in all aspects of a functioning government unlike the U.S. government, which is constantly borrowing and spending. The U.S. gov. seems like one big spoiled obese baby and it can't get it up.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Keep your views to yourself America and stop trying to constantly butt into our affairs and affairs of every other country in the world.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Dog has a thorough grasp of the situation and I for one value his posts

Agreed. And Dog, don't waste your time responding to "ExportExpert". If he really was an expert, he'd know how far off base his position is. First off, he has said nothing in all his posts to refute the Treasury's basic points about Japan. All he wants to do is blame the U.S. and critisize its economic policies. Second, he conveniently forgets to mention that Japan has probably been the biggest benefacator of the U.S.'s decades-long strong dollar policy, as its cars, electronics, etc. had built-in price advantages versus their U.S. competition. And because of that it conveniently ignored its structural problems. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, and the Yen is strong, all Japan can think to do is intervene in the market in a panic -- with completely no benefit. But, addressing the real issues is not discussed. Just blaming the U.S. Pathetic.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

IamGaijin- There are international treaties preventing currency intervention, china, japan and the US are sign onto it. Japan got emergency permission to do so as a countermeasure to reduce the high exchange rates.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@CVHuan:

It is becoming hell for the poor and the middle class here in America too. Don't turn a blind eye. You think it is all flowers and rainbows in the USA?

I agreed with u so the "occupy the wallstreet activity" coming. My point is that the founders of PRC told Chinese people they would make a paradise for the poor before they built PRC! But their followers actually go the opposite way. However, even the US society system isn't good also, founders of the US didn't cheat American.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

tell the USA go sit on it.

Now, who started using quantitative easing in the 90's and 00's?

hint: BoJ.

And it's not only the USTreasury who are worried about JP companies' competitiveness --it's the JP companies themselves who are putting plants up in China and SEAsia due to fundamental problems at home which make Japanese mfgs uncompetitive against foreign firms. The temporary and easy way out is to water down the currency to drive up foreign demand --but that doesn't last long. What's needed is structural change in the Japanese economy. It's a tall order, but they need to address the issues, weak domestic demand, arcane laws, protectionism, demographics, etc. First steps, as they say.

It's not as if the US or EU economy are sound, it's just that they are better off, for the most part, compared to the Japanese economy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

m5c32 Now, who started using quantitative easing in the 90's and 00's?

Exactly and because the world economy at the time looked good, Japan got a really decent break thru it. It saw incredible growth in exports, to support a waning domestic economy.

At that time the world service economy grew by 20%, while Japan's service economy only grew at a paltry 3%. I know this for a fact because I was working in METI at the time and everyone was aware that the devalued Yen, rather than aiding a reformation of the export driven economy, was hindering it by cementing the dependence on exports and ecouraging the political inertia of the LDP.

For Japan, the chickens have now come home to roost and it has very little to do with the present US or Japanese administrations.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

KariHarukaDec. 29, 2011

Keep your views to yourself America and stop trying to constantly butt into our affairs and affairs of every other country in the world.

Hard to believe these words, usually the regular retort by China to the USA, is being parroted here almost in unison.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Perhaps that was a signal to tell the Japanese government to 'buy more US debts'!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Did Koizumi reform the domestic economy? Did he hell. He made it worse by impoverishing the Japanese worker through legislating changes in the work contract in the hope that Japan might hold on to its manufacturing base in direct competition with developing economies.

In Japan we are in this present economic mess because of the missed opportunities of the LDP in 2001 -2005. America is quite right, this Yen is only strong relative to the Y133 levels of 2002. In real economic terms, in 2011, Japan is a net creditor and Yen should probably be stronger, if not for the Japanese government's currency manipulation.

@Dog, I appreciate your insighful analysis for the listed above. Yep, Koizumi had stolen the future from Japanese workers. I have been so amazed how some people want him back to take over a PM position. I was also totally against his postal reform policy. He was ready to sell Japan to global hawks. Oh well, the history will tell.........

Yep, Japan missed opportunities of economic reform in 2001-2005. You are right on that too. What Japan needs to do now is to overhaul an ineffective old economic model driven by export, and public expenditures on unnecessary infrastractures such as "Hakomono" and "airports". The new Japanese economic model should be changed to or/and driven by Consumer Spending model like US. They can start investing on medical technologies, health care, medicine (biotechnology), and updating hospitals driven by Japanese aging consumers..

Communist economic model is NOT driven by Consumer Spending as you know. Look what had happend to former soviet union. It failed! I would like to see what China will do for the next 10 years. You are right, we have a tax based problem here in US, and we are in process of fiscal policy reform.. Thank god, we have an automatic spending cut system in place effective 2013 if the moron congress cannot agree. Obama has already expressed his WILL to the congress if anyone tries to abolish that automatic spending cut, then he is ready to FIGHT.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@akkk1

So your denying the fact that the US stick their noses into what every other nation does? They tried to do that to my home country last year but as the Finns owe them nothing our government told them to get lost.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

kariharuka: the only government that has consistently told the US to mind their own business has been China's, who are considered the bad guys for not kowtowing to the top dog. If other countries have told the US to butt out, it sure hasn't been reported in the mainstream media.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'd count the BBC as mainstream. However as they aren't American I'd assume you don't think thats mainstream.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

of course it would be better without the intervention, I just wish the banks would stop knocking back loan applications if it doesnt fit the local govts agenda of enterprise, it doesnt matter how much evidence you provide. this sort of protectionism, and controlled development weakens initiative, and flounders on misguided businesses

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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