politics

U.S. urges restraint between Japan, S Korea

75 Comments

The United States on Tuesday urged its allies Japan and South Korea to show restraint in their tense relations as an American senator faulted Tokyo on historical disputes.

Danny Russel, the assistant secretary of state for East Asia, called on the two countries to look at the model of Japan and the United States, which have overcome the bitterness of World War II to nurture a close friendship.

"We continue to stress the need for prudence and restraint, for all parties to take steps that will promote healing," Russel said of Japan and South Korea.

"All parties can contribute to a reversal of the current atmosphere and the creation of a positive trend," he told a Senate subcommittee.

Echoing remarks of Secretary of State John Kerry on a visit last month to Seoul, Russel said Japan and South Korea shared common challenges including uncertainties over nuclear-armed North Korea.

While Russel said historical disputes cannot "be resolved by one party alone," the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee on East Asia, Ben Cardin, faulted Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on historical disputes.

"The Japanese prime minister's rhetoric on these issues is increasingly concerning to many," said Cardin, a member of President Barack Obama's Democratic Party.

Cardin accused Abe of "provocative activities," a likely reference to the Japanese leader's Dec 26 pilgrimage to the Yasukuni shrine which honors 2.5 million war dead including convicted war criminals.

China and South Korea have accused Japan of showing insufficient remorse for atrocities in the 20th century. Abe is known for his conservative views on history and in the past has questioned whether imperial Japan directly coerced so-called "comfort women" into military brothels.

Japan in 1993 apologized to the women. Last week, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said that the government "would like to consider" setting up a verification team with academics to re-examine the accounts of 16 Korean women who testified ahead of the apology.

South Korean President Park Geun-Hye, who has refused to meet Abe since she took office, said Saturday that Japan would face "isolation" if it revised the apology.

Respected historians say up to 200,000 women, mostly from Korea but also from China, Indonesia, the Philippines and Taiwan, were forced to serve as sex slaves in Japanese army brothels.

© (c) 2014 AFP

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Echoing remarks of Secretary of State John Kerry on a visit last month to Seoul, Russel said Japan and North Korea shared common challenges including uncertainties over nuclear-armed North Korea.

Japan and North Korea shared common challenges? Or is it south Korea

8 ( +10 / -2 )

And when will USA stop South Korea in trashing Japan ? This all started from them, Abe would never come in this position that Koreans didnt spam so much against Japan . And also, when will USA to tell South Korea to stop stealing Japan culture and claiming that its Korean ? So, when ?

-12 ( +20 / -32 )

The main missing ingredient necessary to achieve the task of healing the divisions between South Korea and Japan is statesmanship, in which both countries political leaders resist the temptation to succumb to popular and already established national identity tropes that protect their approval ratings and aid domestic politicking. Statesmanship will require leaders to address the past not simply as a legal issue between the two governments, but in a way that also addresses the lingering hurt of colonization at a personal and political level. Ultimately, South Korea will have to determine precisely what actions it will accept from Japan as expressions of remorse that would then enable the two countries to move their relations forward. Japan will need the courage to meet those requirements sufficiently.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Japan and South Korea should be cooperating more on issues instead of pointing the finger at each other for every little remark some politician makes. Both nations should be proud of how far they have come since the end of World War II. Let's focus on that and see how much further the two nations can come.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

It is Sout Koea which needs restraint. They get hot easily. We know their tindery and irrational nature and our reaction is "again?"

-3 ( +14 / -17 )

And when will USA stop South Korea in trashing Japan ?

@ Nenad - It goes both ways.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/12/national/tabloids-brimming-with-anti-korea-diatribes

This all started from them, Abe would never come in this position that Koreans didnt spam so much against Japan .

That is a curious claim. Are you aware Japan colonised Korea for the 1st half of the 20th century, and were responsible for many brutalities including torture and murder of more than 7,000 Koreans calling for independence? Or do you believe Japan was merely liberating Korea as well as all of Asia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1st_Movement

And also, when will USA to tell South Korea to stop stealing Japan culture and claiming that its Korean ? So, when ?

Nenad, I know you dearly love Japan, but you would have more credibility if you dropped the "Ganbare Nippon!" tone of your posts. Both Korea and Japan are responsible for the current state of affairs, and blame does not solely rest on Korea as you claim.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Abe had good grounds before for claiming South Korea was being unreasonable, but now that this revisionist nonsense has gained ground his position is becoming weaker and weaker. Most of the population would rather the past be left in the past but Abe just can't leave it alone.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Mitch Cohen Mar. 05, 2014 - 07:47AM JST Are you aware Japan colonised Korea for the 1st half of the 20th century, and were responsible for many brutalities including torture and murder of more than 7,000 Koreans calling for independence? Or do you believe Japan was merely liberating Korea as well as all of Asia?

The causes of tension in Japan-South Korea relations are well-known, the territorial disputes, divergent interpretations of history, an troublesome domestic politics. Perhaps even more important are Japanese and South Korean notions of national identity. Both society encourage grief and guilt Japanese and South Korean perspectives of their situations and push the two countries toward conflict. Political solutions to the problems of Japan-South Korea relations will continue to fail as long as each country’s current identity, the sense of who it is and what it stands for is framed against the other

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It is Sout Koea which needs restraint. They get hot easily. We know their tindery and irrational nature and our reaction is "again?"

@Schopenhauer - One guaranteed way to instantly discredit yourself and your opinions is to claim only one party is to blame in a dispute such as this.

I am curious to know if you also had the "again?" reaction to high profile Japanese leaders (Japanese PM, Osaka mayor, Nagoya mayor, Tokyo governor, Defence Chief, NHK chief to list a few) coming out with revisionist statements that aim to whitewash history. If not, may I ask why?

2 ( +10 / -8 )

@Mitch Cohen

The South Korean government needs to be forthright about the fact it spent the $800 million in compensation money and take some responsibility itself, instead of blustering that Japan “hasn’t apologized nor compensated enough.” If the South Korean government had done it’s part back in the 1960′s and disbursed compensation efficiently to those Koreans conscripted by the Japanese during WWII, much of the problems wouldn’t exist today.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

"“The Japanese prime minister’s rhetoric on these issues is increasingly concerning to many,”

Exactly. Abe and Co. have almost single-handedly caused the current tensions in Asia today, but they still try to play victim.

-5 ( +10 / -15 )

The South Korean government needs to be forthright about the fact it spent the $800 million in compensation money and take some responsibility itself, instead of blustering that Japan “hasn’t apologized nor compensated enough.” If the South Korean government had done it’s part back in the 1960′s and disbursed compensation efficiently to those Koreans conscripted by the Japanese during WWII, much of the problems wouldn’t exist today.

@sfjp330 - Exactly.

As a supporter of the Korean cause in this debate, it frustrates me that the Korean position is weakened by some claiming further compensation. IMO if the SK government and activists completely dropped the issue of compensation and focused only on the revisionist attitudes of Japan, it would strengthen the Korean position and gather more support. Unfortunately those who demand yet more compensation will make many people look at SK's arguments with skepticism.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Today, South Korea no longer sees significant importance to Japan. So for South Korea, having a good relationship with Japan is not a priorty. As you notice, the bilateral trade has reduced significantly. This is one reason why South Korea has become more assertive toward Japan. In the last ten years, Japan had fifty percent reduction on imports from South Korea. Currently Japan exports $60 billion to SK, while SK exports $25 billion to Japan. It's a one way trade for Japan. Even Hyundai, their biggest company in SK no longer sells cars in Japan. Priority has changed and South Korea sees China as a future growth, and they will focus on China for increase trade and bilateral relations.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

“The Japanese prime minister’s rhetoric on these issues is increasingly concerning to many,” said Cardin, a member of President Barack Obama’s Democratic Party.

Cardin accused Abe of “provocative activities,” a likely reference to the Japanese leader’s Dec 26 pilgrimage to the Yasukuni shrine which honors 2.5 million war dead including convicted war criminals.

It sounds to me the US is pointing at Japan as the sole problem. They are correct.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

Mitch CohenMar. 05, 2014 - 08:21AM JST

I am thankful you are not being not too emotional and being objective about Japan and Korea relationship. I think that kind of attitude from both sides will help Korea and Japan reconcile.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

WASHINGTON

The United States on Tuesday urged its allies Japan and South Korea to show restraint in their tense relations as an American senator faulted Tokyo on historical disputes.

Danny Russel, the assistant secretary of state for East Asia, called on the two countries to look at the model of Japan and the United States, which have overcome the bitterness of World War II to nurture a close friendship.

It seems the message is directed to South Korea.

By the way, does anyone see the "dispute" real danger? I live in a society where freedom of thought and freedom of expression are written in the bill of rights. People have agreed to disagree, and no one would start killing each other for difference of views.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Everyone, even China and Korea, should try to understand what Yasukuni stands for, and what it means when people go there to pay their respects. This op-ed is definitely a must read: http://bit.ly/1omaNxI

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

This article is wrong as other media. There is no respected historian who says 200,000 women were forced as sex slaves. Article should include the name of the historians. Japanese historians know the number is lie.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

@Mitch Cohen I totally agree with you.

" If the South Korean government had done it’s part back in the 1960′s and disbursed compensation efficiently to those Koreans conscripted by the Japanese during WWII, much of the problems wouldn’t exist today."

No. Even if they did that, Koreans would be upset at the continual statements made by revisionists.

I'm not Korean, have never been involved with compensation etc but I'm totally embarassed and dismayed that revisionists have taken over the country.

If someone received money in a civil case or had seen the criminal serve time, they'd still be upset if the criminal or his family later kept saying that the rape/murder/bashing etc either didn't take place, the victim deserved it, or that everyone else was doing. The only decent thing is constant contrition.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

IMO if the SK government and activists completely dropped the issue of compensation and focused only on the revisionist attitudes of Japan

Mtch Cohen, You are quite wrong there.

It's always been the revisionist attitude of the Japanese that has always grated the Koreans into demands for compensations. And with Abe's administration, and his control of the Japanese media like the NHK, things have gotten worse. Today, there are not many people left living who are demanding compensations and apology, as most have died. It's the revisionist attitude of Japan., that starts this conflict. Without the revisionism,. the demands for compensation and apology probably wouldn't even exist.

Currently Japan exports $60 billion to SK, while SK exports $25 billion to Japan. It's a one way trade for Japan.

South Korea's exports are down by 25% in 2013, Korea's exports are now less than $20 billion. Yesterday an article appeared in Korean paper. It said the Japanese companies are now demanding that Korean kimchi makers to take off the Korean writings from the products because the Korean writings brings hostile feelings to the Japanese who will not buy them. I think the Japanese people are staging a silent boycott of Korean products, as anti Korean feelings generated by hundreds of articles (many of them fabricated) printed everyday, have dominated Japanese newspapers. Example article I read yesterday, said that it's the Koreans are behind the anti-Korean protests to make Japan look bad. This is so laughable. Another fabricated article said that Japanese tourists in Korea are being randomly targeted and attacked on the streets for speaking Japanese (to scare Japanese tourists from going to Korea). Another total lie. Another article said that Korean economy has collapsed due to lack of Japanese aid and investment. (can you say hallucinations?). These are mainstream newspapers that are printing nothing but fabricated news on Korea to generate hatred.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

sfjp330

Today, South Korea no longer sees significant importance to Japan. Priority has changed and South Korea sees China as a future growth, and they will focus on China for increase trade and bilateral relations

And world is seeing Korea a tributary state of China.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Everyone, even China and Korea, should try to understand what Yasukuni stands for, and what it means when people go there to pay their respects. This op-ed is definitely a must read: http://bit.ly/1omaNxI

That op-ed is absolute nonsense.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/sorry-japan-yasukuni-not-arlington-9718?page=1

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The problem is solely Korea. Korea must agree with Japan to settle the island dispute to the ICJ. They must acknowledge the aplogies and compensation by Japan. If that happens, Japan will be in peace with the peninsula.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Example article I read yesterday, said that it's the Koreans are behind the anti-Korean protests to make Japan look bad. This is so laughable. Another fabricated article said that Japanese tourists in Korea are being randomly targeted and attacked on the streets for speaking Japanese (to scare Japanese tourists from going to Korea).

Can you please post these fabricated articles appearing in Japanese newspapers?

What newspapers are these articles appearing in? Major newspapers? Regional newspapers? Right-wing fringe websites? 2-ch?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

titaniumdioxide Mar. 05, 2014 - 10:08AM JST Korea must agree with Japan to settle the island dispute to the ICJ.

What can ICJ do? ICJ means nothing. Regardless if Japan or Korea went to ICJ, there is no guarantee that loser of the case will not follow the ruling that was not in their favor. Nobody is going to enforce the ruling anyway. So what does it matter? What is important the most for Japanese or Korean politicians is the public opinion, and they will not respect the ruling that is not favorable on the sovereignty of Dokdo/Takeshima. So your back to square one.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Peacetrain This might be off topic and I am not trying to criticize the US, or not trying to justify Japan, or trying to accuse you. But I have always been curious, what the US people are thinking about what they have done to the philippines when they colonized philippines.

Do you think it is as bad as what Japan did to Korea or was it better than what Japan did? Do you think it is necessary for the US to compensate and apologize to the philippinese? I might be ignorant and mistaken, I am sorry if I'm asking rude question, and maybe the US has already done something, but it seems kind of similar to korea japan issue so I wanted to ask.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

because the Korean writings brings hostile feelings to the Japanese who will not buy them

That's funny. Formula Nippon was recently renamed Super Formula. Guess why?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

sfjp330Mar. 05, 2014 - 10:20AM JST

What can ICJ do? ICJ means nothing.

If you look at the web site of ICJ, you will find many nations use ICJ for territorial disputes. http://www.icj-cij.org/homepage/index.php

I would say most Japanese think it better to settle the dispute at ICJ than to continue the dispute of the small islands forever. Even if Japan loses, it is an honorable defeat.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

South Korea and it's attitude is what has driven a divide between Japan-South Korea-US alliance. If South Korea would have been civil about this issue there wouldn't be the bad blood that there is today.

Push a people and demand more payments and that will turn the people against you. The Japanese people paid compensation to the South Korean government way back in 65'. But the South Korean Government kept that money to itself and hid those payments from it's people.

Now, they don't want to make the payments they promised to make. So, instead of living up to the treaty that they signed they start a Nationalist Campaign to for Japan to pay more money.

But, Japan is sick and tired and has decided that enough was enough. So, the US-South Korea- Japan alliance is now as cold as it has ever been.

And guess who has a giant smile on their faces, Chubby Kim and Chubby Xi.

Then just when things couldn't get any worse in their relationship Communist China takes out it's giant Carrot Trap, reunification.

South Korea has for the worlds largest carrot trap. South Korea's leaders are so wrapped up in this carrot trap that have tossed aside their friends and joined with their past enemies. Hell, they have fallen for this carrot trap hook-line and sinker. Park and her cohorts have decided that sleeping with Communist China will get them the keys to Pyongyang.

South Korea does as it is told because the dream of every South Korean President is to be the one that unified Korea. But they always forget to ask, who will lead.

I love the way that the South continues to fall for this trap. They almost fell for it in the 1970's and if they don't open their eyes soon they will completely fall for it today. All they need to do is read and they would learn that the only thing that Communist China and North Korea want is a destabilized US-South Korea-Japan alliance.

Right now South Korea is doing exactly what North Korea and Communist China want. I just hope that Seoul wakes up and realizes this. If it doesn't Chubby Kim and Chucky will be doing a jig in the Blue House.

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/dprk-perspectives-korean-reunification-after-the-july-4th-joint-communiqu%C3%A9

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

The issue here is not compensation. Even if it was, we're talking in the hundreds of millions, which is not even worth hardly anything. People here are not even aware that South Korea provides compensation payments to Koreans who were forced laborers in Japan. Anyone who was part of the labor force can apply to the government of South Korea and they will be compensated. With only 55 women left of the Korean comfort women, even if they are awarded a million dollars each, it's no more than $55 million. South Korean government in 1999 offered these women who refused to take the Asian Women's Fund, South Korean government money. The women refused, saying they want the Japanese government to offer that money, to recognize that they were forced sex slaves.

The problem here comes because Japan's stubborn refusal to tell the truth in its WWII history, with constant shifty denials, ignorant abusive comments from Japanese politicians, glorifying its Imperial past, bullying attempts at getting rid of legitimate memorials in Glendale, and so on and so forth. This has going on for decades and decades, but has gotten ten times worse since Mr. Abe took over the government. If Japan had been honest from the beginning about their bad deeds long ago, there would not have been constant calls of apologies, compensations, and questions about sincerity. It's Japan who made its own bed, its no one else's fault.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

I just hope that Seoul wakes up and realizes this. If it doesn't Chubby Kim and Chucky will be doing a jig in the Blue House.

I don't. It seems most Japanese are so tired of Koreans that they don't care any more if SKorea becomes totally dependent on China, and lose freedom and independence.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I think all can agree that blame for the extremely poor state of relations between Korea and Japan belongs to both parties – but fundamentally, it’s boils down to former Speaker of the House Tip O’Neil’ s quote, “All politics is local”….

Political leaders of both Japan and Korea cannot resist injecting nationalism and victimhood into their discourse when faced with some internal domestic problem or issue that is taking down their poll numbers. In my view, it just shows how similar the two countries are – whether it’s corruption in the Blue House or organized crime getting construction contracts in Tohoku, you can count on some national politician in both countries turning up the heat on historical issues to deflect attention and criticism from domestic voters. A concurrent reason is that great Asian bugaboo “face.”

It will take a transformative leader to frankly tell his/her citizens, it’s time to leave the past behind, and to look forward, and create truly productive relationships with our neighbors that benefit everyone. That certainly won’t happen in China where the Communist government will use every lever to remain in power, and it’s looking that it won’t happen in Japan as Abe continues to lurch to the right. I thought the best bet would be SKorea, but every democratically elected leader so far has succumbed to the “take the low road approach” to politics when confronted with some scandal – even President Lee who vowed not too when taking office (and when confronted with a scandal went to Dokto/Takeshima to have his picture taken).

What these leaders overlook is the prosperity for their nation and its citizens that would come from a cooperative, vibrant NE Asia where everyone gets along……..

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I would say most Japanese think it better to settle the dispute at ICJ

Japanese want to settle yes, but Koreans seems to have no desire to settle anything. They rather keep increasing the number of disputes. I have to conclude they're happy having disputes with Japan.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Japan's leaders do need to close the book on these historical issues, but to Japan's credit, I don't see little children brainwashed with the nationalistic rhetoric the way the kids over in South Korea appear to be, with respect to Dokdo/Takeshima. I don't see the Japanese teaching their kids to make a big song and a dance about who's rocks they are.

If the South Koreans would knock that off, I don't think you'd see such a push from nationalists like Abe to move Japan's kids in the same direction.

The former South Korean president's inflammatory visit to Dokdo/Takeshima last year before leaving office hardly helped.

It's a shame that the US couldn't have pointed out the faults of both sides.

I don't think anyone seriously believes either South Korea or Japan are about to go war-mongering in the 2st century.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Japanese want to settle yes, but Koreans seems to have no desire to settle anything. They rather keep increasing the number of disputes. I have to conclude they're happy having disputes with Japan.

What dispute? Korea's official position is that the island is integral part of South Korea, and that there is no dispute, because the island is indisputable (like you cannot dispute that Tokyo is part of Japan, so it's waste of time to take the case to the courts). If there's no dispute, why would Korea be happy with having this dispute with Japan? You don't make any sense.

You are mistaking. To have claims of the island, and to even dispute it, Japan has to have some sort of presence on the island because this is not a body of sea where you can enter and leave as you see fit. And to my understanding, Japanese have zero presence on the island. So Japan is in no position to dictate anything when they have nothing to leverage against.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

'I don't. It seems most Japanese are so tired of Koreans that they don't care any more if SKorea becomes totally dependent on China, and lose freedom and independence.'

Good to see that you have got into the habit of using 'most' Japanese rather than speaking for the entire nation. I suppose that's some kind of progression. Hopefully, those not a member of your 'most' will be the ones who can find a logical and mutually beneficial way forward. We need as many less fevered minds from both sides as possible.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@chucky

When a nation takes another nation's sovereign territory through military FORCE then the disputes strarts from there. Takeshima was taken from Japan through FORCE after the war in 1953 and had been occupied by ROK through FORCE ever since. Japan lodged a diplomatic protest right after and had demanded that it to be settled at ICJ three times in which ROK had not responded.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Why would anyone take the US advice these days? I don't see them as a leader to follow. Their opinion should be noted, but their level of influence is not what it used to be.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

SamuraiBlue, are you talking about 1905 when Japan took the Korean sovereign island and declared it Japan's?

When a nation takes another nation's sovereign territory through military FORCE

Five years later, Japan did the same thing again, this time to the entire Korean peninsula.

It was never part of your island. Japan has to accept that and move along, no sense crying and whining about it.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

When a nation takes another nation's sovereign territory through military FORCE then the disputes strarts from there.

It is identical with Okinawa which is J sovereign terrioty as name in only. In fact it is unidentified state of US. Japan has no moral ground for telling others what to do because Hokkaido and Okinawa was forced to become the prefecture of Japan. Japan is the champion of using force and fabrication.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

chucky3176Mar. 05, 2014 - 12:54PM JST

It was never part of your island.

From 1905 to 1945, the entire world saw Takeshima was Japanese territory. Obviously, you cannot say "never". Why do you keep saying assertions which you know are not true?

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

" When a nation takes another nation's sovereign territory through military FORCE then the disputes strarts from there. " Do you really want to play the Japan is a victim here card and using the above line of argument about a country taking territory through military force given Japan`s past actions in Asia? You do realize how absurd that is , right?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

History is not over, certainly not in Asia. Both governments should call for closer cultural, economic and security ties and an end to decades of bitter relations between the Northeast Asian neighbors. (Japan annexed Korea in 1910 and, during the occupation that followed, allegedly made concerted efforts to to wipe out the Korean culture and force Koreans to become Japanese. That occupation ended in 1945, but the bitterness it engendered still is deeply ingrained in many Koreans).

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

but the bitterness it engendered still is deeply ingrained in many Koreans.

Mostly because of Japan's revisionist history, revisionist education, revisionist museaums, revisionist comments, and arrogant revisionist attitudes that kept scratching the wounds before they got healed. Japan being just silent and letting the wound heal over the decades, would have done far more to advance the relations between the two countries. But Japan is just too proud of their imperial past and their Kamikaze pilots, to let that happen.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

NathawMar. 05, 2014 - 12:58PM JST

When a nation takes another nation's sovereign territory through military FORCE then the disputes strarts from there.

It is identical with Okinawa which is J sovereign terrioty as name in only.

There are many international legal standpoints with regard to military invasion, but one widely accepted standpoint is that military invasion to gain territory was prohibited after 1928 when the Pact of Paris was concluded. Invasion of Okinawa by Satsuma took place in 1607, which is more that three centuries before 1928.

Whereas occupation of Takeshima by South Korea took place in 1952 which is after 1928 and after the end of WW2.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

There are three possible choices here.

1) "They suffered terribly. How can you accept this?"

2) "This is a gross fabrication designed to shame our people and extract compensation".

3) "Let's put this aside and work together to create a more peaceful, prosperous political climate that will be mutually beneficial" . Ultimately, it is that simple. Choosing either option one or option two will invariably result in an eternal recurrence of the same. Be brave....Break the cycle....Say yes to life...and no to a future of history.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan already knows that US is not their ally. When China expanded its air zone, the US did not rebuke China nor made a strong stand against it and Japan got the hint that the US is a fence sitter so Abe pushed the limit.

Russia also saw weakness of USA so it simply disregard its mandate and started annexing parts of Ukraine knowing that the present US president is spineless and is nothing but talk.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

CH3CHO, what about the islands of Jejudo and Ulleungdo? Are you aware that Japan once laid claims to those islands as well, while lobbying a US senator, to have those islands removed from SCAP no.677 orders, in 1946?

What was the basis for Japan to lay claims against those Korean islands too? May I ask?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

I think Abe and his gang are hell bent on making SKorea and China look good. They are giving China lots of breathing space in the international community and giving them reasons to arm militarily. If Abe is smart, he would play the good guy and let China take the fall out. But I think he is too blinded by his nationalistic ambitions and will drag and pull Japan into everybody's disfavor. Good for you Abe! Say or do something else stupid so that you can give the world more to ridicule!!!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

US, either get your butt off the fence or shut up!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

CH3CHOMAR. 05, 2014 - 01:25PM JS

You did not read my post entirely. What I posted was Okinawa is named as J territory only. Whether Japan annexed it before 1928 or not, Japan is no longer areal landlord. Actually it is the colony of US. If you come here, you will realize that it is the same as Takeshima under Marine boots.

Koreans protect the environment of Takeshima. It is better than US enslaving Okinawa.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

chucky3176Mar. 05, 2014 - 01:38PM JST

CH3CHO, what about the islands of Jejudo and Ulleungdo? Are you aware that Japan once laid claims to those islands as well, while lobbying a US senator, to have those islands removed from SCAP no.677 orders, in 1946?

No, I am not aware of such things. I happened to find this "essay" on SCAPIN 677 by Shin Yong-ha, a professor emeritus at Seoul National University in Korea Times. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/02/251_107236.html

Compare his essay with actual SCAPIN 677. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/SCAPIN677

6 Nothing in this directive shall be construed as an indication of Allied policy relating to the ultimate determination of the minor islands referred to in Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration.

The professor fails to mention Article 6 of SCAPIN 677. He also fails to mention 1951 letter from the State Department to US Embacy in Seoul regarding San Francisco Peace Treaty which set the ultimate determination of the islands. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rusk_note_of_1951

As regards the island of Dokdo, otherwise known as Takeshima or Liancourt Rocks, this normally uninhabited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki Islands Branch Office of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea.

It is understandable, if high profile scholars have such low standards of research, people get brain washed.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

For all you right wingers. Current facts are Japan is weakening. China's power is exploding. In 20 years, China will rival the US. China will make sure their "century of humiliation" will be answered ie Japan is in deep deep hole. Japan needs as many friends as it can get. Remember Korea is the knife pointing at Japan's belly. If this keeps up, China will be more than happy to press that knife toward japan' s belly. Japan is weakening. Japan needs friends. So let's all get along (US Japan Korea).

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

mikihouse I agree with you 100 percent! You did leave out the fact with regards to Philippines and the US non-response to China taking over the seas right up against Philippines shores.. Obama and all democrats are weak on international security and national defense, I am a democrat but for different reasons. I have always said, democrats=economy, republicans = national defense.. But is seems both are too engaged in the greed from corporate funds, or why would we all be boosting China's economy over the last.. say 25 years and still counting? An authoritarian state!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@chucky

What dispute?

SK started complaining about the name of Sea of Japan in USA, SK started complaining about a Japanese flag around the globe a few years ago, SK complaining about Japan gave SK ammo, SK stealing a statue from Japan's temple, SK started to demand compensation from Japanese companies last year, about rallies at Okubo..about textbooks, about events, about Yasukuni..about remarks ..SK started demand compensation on Comfort women about 30 years ago, just to name a few....

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Young ChoiMar. 05, 2014 - 03:51PM JST

Remember Korea is the knife pointing at Japan's belly. If this keeps up, China will be more than happy to press that knife toward japan' s belly.

Well, I actually do not see much problem between China and Japan. Senkakus are the only real problem. Yasukuni or Nanjing is of "spiritual" value only and conveys no actual importance to either nation. They are mere leverages to other issues. China and Japan can shake hands and have a nice and prosperous time in future.

On the other hand, South Korea has a serious problem with China, which is North Korea and discriminated ethnic Koreans in North East China. Do you realize why Korea is divided even today? The conflict between China and South Korea will develop into out of control as time goes by.

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Again?

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The Koreans need to mind their own damn business. What a Japanese leader does in Japan is nothing to do with them. The Koreans are the ones attempting to spread their disputes overseas with ridiculous actions like trying to change the name of the Sea of Japan, or trying to get American states to change their textbooks.

Yes, Korea was colonized. Yes, a lot of people suffered. Yes, Korea was also modernized and industrialized during their colonial period. Yes, the father of the current President was a complete Japanophile who joined the Imperial Japanese Army in WW2.

BOTH sides teach their own version of "history" in schools. As does every country in the world. Again, it's nobody elses' business. Japan shouldn't whine about what it taught in Korea, and vice versa.

Plainly stated, Korea needs to put on their Big Boy Pants. They won'T get any respect by kicking and crying and throwing tantrums every few months. Joining the larger community of nations means being mature enough to learn from the past, but not to bathe in it.

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Great Britain, with the help BBC put the whole war thing to bed in the 70's. Leaders of the day created the TRF commission (Truth -Reconciliation - Forgiveness). The BBC presentation saved the day...

Fawlty Towers : Don't Mention the War! - BBC ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

.....There you go, job done ....

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@Young Choi... with your post you have shown why there will never be peace between China and Japan... your country wants POWER!

As far as Japan-SK goes, the petty ssquabbling will rumble on forever. SK will never accept any apologies, and Japanese right wingers will always deny war crimes. 99% of the Japanese people just want to live in peace, but it's the 1% of nutters with the power who are preventing it. That tiny minority and SK are keeping it going... on and on.

I mean come on... the war is over. Who cares any more? There has to be more to life than constantly looking backwards. For eff's sake this is the 21st century, not 19-bloody-44. Just stop!

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Another American miscalculation has cost it to lose even more face internationally. Having instigated Japan ( encouraged ) Shinzo Abe to go ballistic in his militaristic actions against China, America totally forgot the pain Japan caused to South Korean women during their war time aggression during the invasion of China, Korea and Southeast Asia. Now that Shinzo Abe has continued to thrown salt at the wounds America is now trying rein in the wild dog, Shinzo Abe, who has suddenly turned mute after Russia's defense of Ukraine and Crimea. Must have both feet now stuck in his mouth and throat. The Kuriles are going to have to be returned to Russia. Does Japan have the ability to face both the Chinese and the Russians when its American backers are backing away and leaving Shinzo Abe to choke on his militaristic utterances?

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One guaranteed way to instantly discredit yourself and your opinions is to claim only one party is to blame in a dispute such as this.

And you, Mitch, would have more "credibility" here if instead of directing your posts enthusiastically at anyone who supports Japan, you from time to time directed some comments at chucky who continues to say stuff like this ...

It sounds to me the US is pointing at Japan as the sole problem. They are correct.

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chucky3176Mar. 05, 2014 - 01:38PM JST

Japan didn’t claim Jejudo, but claimed Ulleongdo and Dokdo during the negotiation of SF Treaty. In 1947, Japanese government published a document entitled "Minor Islands in the Pacific, Minor Islands Adjacent to Japan Proper: Part IV:Minor Islands in the Pacific, Minor Islands in the Sea of Japan" distributed it to SCAP(Supreme Command of Allied Powers ) in order to not be disadvantaged in the negotiationsdeciding Japan's post-war territory. In this document, Japan falsely claimed both Ulleongdo and Dokdo describing there was no Korean name for Liancourt Rocks(Dokdo) and they were not shown in the maps made in Korea. With this book, Japan lobbied Willam J. Sebald who played a major role in reversing U.S. position supporting Dokdo was Korean land. He recommended U.S. that if Dokdo was given to Japan, U.S. could build weather and radar station there. His remark has something in common with Japanese bureaucrat‘s of 1905. Yamaza Enjiro, the Director of the Political Affairs Bureau told Nakai Yozaburo whose petition to incorporate Dokdo into Japanese land and lease it to him was rejected by Japan’s Ministry of Interior as follows:

" ..the incorporation is urgent particularly under the present situation, and it is absolutely necessary and advisable to build watchtowers and install wireless or submarine cable and keep watch on the hostile warships. “

CH3CHO Mar. 05, 2014 - 02:31PM JST

The professor fails to mention Article 6 of SCAPIN 677.

You are wrong. Prof. Shin mentioned Article 6 of SCAPIN 677. He said “ SCAPIN No. 677 states that the directive shall not be construed as the ultimate determination of Japan’s minor islands” Of course, SCAP’s directive excluding Dokdo from Japan was not the ultimate determination because it was SF Treaty that decide it, but Sf Treaty didn’t decide the ownership of Dokdo.

There’s an article of SCAPIN 677 the Japanese don’t want to cite. The Article 5 of SCAPIN 677 reads: “The definition of Japan contained in this directive shall also apply to all future directives, memoranda and orders from this Headquarters unless otherwise specified therein.” It means the definition of Japan excluding Dokdo can be changed only through SCAP’s a new directive and the definition of Japan excluding Dokdo would be effective until a change happens. The position of Dokdo excluded as Japanese territories in SCAPIN 677 was never changed while new directives about other territories such as Izu,Nanpo Islands and Nansei Islands were issued. In other words, SCAPIN 677 separating Dokdo from Japan remained effective when SF Treaty was concluded.

https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=5963761562906790520#editor/target=post;postID=4441328717436648820;onPublishedMenu=posts;onClosedMenu=posts;postNum=1;src=postname

He also fails to mention 1951 letter from the State Department to US Embacy in Seoul regarding San Francisco Peace Treaty which set the ultimate determination of the islands. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rusk_note_of_1951

You cite Dean Rusk’s wrong information misled by the Japanese government’ document mentioned above. The initial U.S. view on Dokdo is :

“The history of these rocks has been reviewed more than once by the Department, and does not need extensive recounting here. The rocks, which are fertile seal breeding grounds, were at one time part of the Kingdom of Korea. They were, of course, annexed together with the remaining territory of Korea when Japan extended its Empire over the former Korean state.”

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EZBFIntdH10/UIkI_kJvtaI/AAAAAAAACAs/fgAjtls6o18/s1600/Steeves1.jpg

It is understandable, if high profile scholars have such low standards of research, people get brain washed.

It’s Japanese government that misleads their people with false claim on Dokdo.

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South Korea is the mother of all modern shame! How dare she open her mouth full of kimchi and started to annoy Japan with her putrid breath.

@ titaniumoxide - I congratulate your parents on an excellent job raising their child. Can they please write a book on how to raise model members of society like yourself?

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Suin KimMAR. 05, 2014 - 08:27PM JST chucky3176Mar. 05, 2014 - 01:38PM JST Japan didn’t claim Jejudo, but claimed Ulleongdo and Dokdo during the negotiation of SF Treaty. In 1947, Japanese government published a document entitled "Minor Islands in the Pacific, Minor Islands Adjacent to Japan Proper: Part IV:Minor Islands in the Pacific, Minor Islands in the Sea of Japan" distributed it to SCAP(Supreme Command of Allied Powers ) in order to not be disadvantaged in the negotiationsdeciding Japan's post-war territory. In this document, Japan falsely claimed both Ulleongdo and Dokdo describing there was no Korean name for Liancourt Rocks(Dokdo) and they were not shown in the maps made in Korea. With this book, Japan lobbied Willam J. Sebald who played a major role in reversing U.S. position supporting Dokdo was Korean land. He recommended U.S. that if Dokdo was given to Japan, U.S. could build weather and radar station there. His remark has something in common with Japanese bureaucrat‘s of 1905. Yamaza Enjiro, the Director of the Political Affairs Bureau told Nakai Yozaburo whose petition to incorporate Dokdo into Japanese land and lease it to him was rejected by Japan’s Ministry of Interior as follows: " ..the incorporation is urgent particularly under the present situation, and it is absolutely necessary and advisable to build watchtowers and install wireless or submarine cable and keep watch on the hostile warships. “

Most Korean right-wingers are delusional about the SF treaty! Their propaganda saying Sebald's decision was military-based not historical. From his telegram: "Japan's claim to these islands is old and appears valid."

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@ titaniumoxide

Most Korean right-wingers are delusional about the SF treaty! Their propaganda saying Sebald's decision was military-based not historical. From his telegram: "Japan's claim to these islands is old and appears valid.

I’m not a right-winger. What’s the delusion you found in my post? Do you think Sebald wanted to give Dokdo to Japan just because he truly believed Japan's claim to these islands was old and appeared valid? If he believed so, his belief contradicts SCAPIN 677, which means he was wrong. If Japan's claim to these islands was old and appeared valid, why did SCAPIN separate Dokdo from Japan?

It’s not propaganda to view Sebald’s recommendation was based on the U.S. military strategic interests. In 1949, Sebald exactly said “Security considerations might conceivably render the provision of weather and radar stations on these islands a matter of interest to the United States.” Yes, U.S. needed Dokdo to confront the communists in the emergence of Cold War as Japan needed it as a strategic point for Russo-Japanese war.

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I think US Government knew about S. Korean and Communist Chinese leaders using Japanese war time history for to cover up their incompetence Government policy and corruption among politicians from their citizens. Always it’s difficult to deal with oppressive and dishonest Government. US Government shouldn’t take serious about Communist leader and S. Korean leader because they are just entertaining to their domestic audience to gain their popularity with enlarged WWII fiction story.

Both countries leaders are too much jealous about Japan's wealth and advance technology which Japan possessed. Peoples of S. Korea and Communist China should aware of corruption and illegal wealth of their politicians. They are trying to isolate Japan from the rest of the world but the result is not what they wanted. S. Korean President and Communist Chinese leader are trying demonized Japanese peoples and Government for to benefit their trading with the world.

To both leaders of S. Korean and Communist China, jealous and hatred toward Japan nothing will be happened to Japanese peoples but bad for your health.

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All

This is nothing but China's ruse to divide South Korea and Japan from being allies with the US only to conquer them both later with North Korea under one umbrella!

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Suin KimMar. 05, 2014 - 08:27PM JST

The position of Dokdo excluded as Japanese territories in SCAPIN 677 was never changed while new directives about other territories such as Izu,Nanpo Islands and Nansei Islands were issued. In other words, SCAPIN 677 separating Dokdo from Japan remained effective when SF Treaty was concluded.

5 The definition of Japan contained in this directive shall also apply to all future directives, memoranda and orders from this Headquarters unless otherwise specified therein.

SCAPIN stands for Supreme Command for Allied Powers Instruction Note. It is a note of the occupying army and the validity lasts so long as Japan is under occupation and occupying Headquarters exists in Japan. When the peace treaty was concluded and occupying army was gone, the note lost power. The peace treaty defines the boarder.

You cite Dean Rusk's wrong information misled by the Japanese government' document mentioned above. The initial U.S. view on Dokdo is :

So you admit the last words of US State Department were that Takeshima belongs to Japan.

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While Russel said historical disputes cannot “be resolved by one party alone,” the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee on East Asia, Ben Cardin, faulted Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on historical disputes

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

He is blaming Abe only. Who has been bad-mouthing against other country constantly? isn't Abe too busy in trade talks everywhere and forgot to name calling on S. Korea? .

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CH3CHOMar. 06, 2014 - 10:32AM JST

First, I'm glad you have no objection to the fact that the Allied Powers concluded Dokdo was Korean land through SCAPIN 677 and this conclusion lasted until SF Treaty was signed.

Was there any definition about the ownership of Dokdo in the final draft of SF Treaty? Please show any evidence, if you have, that SF Treaty defined Dokdo belong to Korea or Japan. SF Treaty was supposed to decide the ownership of Dokdo, but it didn’t, which means the definition of Japan excluding Dokdo by SCAP(Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers) was the only and the last agreement on the ownership of Dokdo. How can I prove this? In the speech at the San Francisco Peace Conference on September 5th, 1951, John Foster Dulles made it clear that the San Francisco Peace Treaty with regard to Japanese territory was based on the Potsdam Declaration. According to his speech, what binds Japan with regard to territory of Japanese sovereignty is the Potsdam Surrender Terms. Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration stipulated “..the Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the Islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we shall determine…” The ‘such minor islands’ the Allied Powers determined are listed in SCAPIN 677, which definitely excluded Dokdo from Japanese land.

http://www.ioc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~worldjpn/documents/texts/JPUS/19510905.S1E.html

So you admit the last words of US State Department were that Takeshima belongs to Japan.

Did US document say “Takeshima belongs to Japan.”? No. Please don’t try to mislead. It said “They were, of course, annexed together with the remaining territory of Korea when Japan extended its Empire over the former Korean state.” I admit Japan annexed Korean Dokdo for imperial greed and kept it for over 36 years. Some Japanese say incorporation of Dokdo has nothing to do with Japanese annexation of Korea, but U.S. clearly viewed otherwise. Dokdo was the first victim of Imperial Japan’s colonizing Korea. When Korea became independent from Japan, Dokdo along with the Korean peninsula had to be returned to Korea because they were the lands Imperial Japan took by greed and force according to Potsdam Surrender Terms.

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Suin Kim, I commend you for going on ad infinitum with arguments supporting South Korea's position. The day South Korea agrees to go before the ICJ as Japan has requested three times, and present those very same arguments and wins a ruling in it's favor, is the day that I will recognize South Korea's position as being valid. Until then it will remain wasted effort in the wrong direction.

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Well, past is past and it is dead. There is nothing to do more than the country did. Now the situation is different and the country needs to increase self protection abilities. I now only buy Sony mobile phones since it is becoming better every day.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Suin KimMar. 06, 2014 - 10:57PM JST

First, I'm glad you have no objection to the fact that the Allied Powers concluded Dokdo was Korean land through SCAPIN 677 and this conclusion lasted until SF Treaty was signed.

Where in SCAPIN 677 does it say Takeshima belongs to Korea? Do I need to repeat the whole thing? SCAPIN 677 was about "governmental and administrative authority" (article 1), and was not about sovereignty (article 6). The areas excluded by article 3 were administered by the occupying US army, and not by Korea. Furthermore, SCAPIN 677 was issued January 20, 1946, years before Republic of Korea was founded on August 15, 1948. How can SCAPIN give Takeshima to Republic of Korea that did not exist at the time?

Did US document say "Takeshima belongs to Japan"?

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rusk_note_of_1951

As regards the island of Dokdo, otherwise known as Takeshima or Liancourt Rocks, this normally uninhabited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki Islands Branch Office of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea.

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OssanAmericaMar. 06, 2014 - 11:12PM JST

Why do some Japanese people bring up ICJ card in the middle of debating on Dokdo issue? Is it their way of refuting the arguments not in favor of Japan? Korea has no legal obligation to say “Yes” to Japan’s asking to go to ICJ, thus there’s nothing wrong with Korean decision not to say “Yes” to Japan’s proposal. Korea has no reason to go to the court to ask judge if Dokdo is Korean land or not because it’s Korean land. If Japan thinks using ICJ is the solution for territorial conflict, why doesn’t Japan bring Senkaku Islands to ICJ? Korea doesn’t go to ICJ because Korea knows exactly why Dokdo is Korea land, but Japan keeps saying to go to ICJ without knowing why Dokdo is Japanese land. There will be no day for Korea and Japan to meet in the court with Dokdo issue, thus it wouldn’t be a bad thing at all if Japanese learn from Koreans why Dokdo is not Japanese land.

CH3CHOMar. 07, 2014 - 01:32PM JST

Where in SCAPIN 677 does it say Takeshima belongs to Korea? SCAPIN 677 was about "governmental and administrative authority" (article 1), and was not about sovereignty (article 6).

It’s nonsense to say SCAPIN 677 wasn’t related to sovereignty. Cease of exercising, or attempting to exercise, governmental or administrative authority over Dokdo which was described as one of the areas outside of Japan means Japan didn’t have sovereignty over Dokdo. How about the early U.S. drafts of SF Treaty? There’s no doubt early U.S. view on the Korean ownership of Dokdo was based on SCAPIN 677.

The map attached to SCAPIN 677 put Dokdo inside of Korea. If Dokdo was excluded from the definition of Japan and drawn inside of Korea, it means it’s Korean land.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NZV3xnTFqpk/UTQIL51Lb5I/AAAAAAAAEgQ/4HiTUWlz68g/s1600/SCAPIN+677+%EC%A7%80%EB%8F%84.jpg

Besides, there’s a document by the Allied Powers to give Dokdo to Korea, which says : “The Allied and Associated Powers agree that there shall be transferred in full sovereignty to the Republic of Korea all rights and titles to ..... all offshore Korean islands, including .....Liancourt Rocks (Takeshima).“

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UTHnxaMLM-w/UoTGsZSRfSI/AAAAAAAAE2M/I4yeDqBU0bw/s1600/%EC%97%B0%ED%95%A9%EA%B5%AD%ED%95%A9%EC%9D%98%EC%84%9C(7%EC%B0%A8%EC%B4%88%EC%95%881949+12+19)1.jpg

How can SCAPIN give Takeshima to Republic of Korea that did not exist at the time?

How about Ulleongdo? Can you say SCAP couldn’t give Ulleongdo to Korea because Republic of Korea wasn’t founded then? When Republic of Korea was founded , the U.S. Military government transferred all to

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rusk_note_of_1951

We were talking about US State Department. Again, Rusk Note was based on the wrong information misled by the Japanese government.

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