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U.S. vows to defend Japan after China announces new air zone

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Don't live in the dream world, I strongly doubt US will engage in the war with China if there's an armed conflict between China and Japan above the zone.

-43 ( +13 / -55 )

A year and something ago, SmithinJapan and I we're predicting that Ishihara's stupid ploy of trying to buy the islands would lead to something like this.

Well Japan you reap what you sow and China, who in the recent past have had no fear of going toe to toe with the US in Korea and Russia in the 1960s border disputes, will relish a chance to slap down Japan at the first opportunity and get a bit of revenge.

Agree with the above poster, as long as any conflict remains localized over the islands, war weary America isn't going to sacrifice US lives and the economy for a few rocks and goats.

-37 ( +12 / -49 )

It depends on the situation but frankly for US, Japan and China it is more of psychological rather than physical confrontation as they know their limits pretty well. It always end up with economy being the crucial factor.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

There is no way China can win a military conflict with the USA. It is not going to happen! Then add Japan, South Korea and Taiwan and it is a major loss.

10 ( +25 / -15 )

US warweary NOT. HEAvily INvested in business of war.

20 ( +23 / -3 )

Things might just be starting to boil over. New conflicts are not needed and will harm everyone. Hope China realizes this and does not push the issue further.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

1) Japan did not even have her own name for Diaoyu Islands before 1921, Japan had been following China to call the islands Diaoyu Islands for 800 years until 1921, 20+ years after defeating China, Japan decided to change the name to Senkaku Islands, named by the British.

2) Japan never dared claim Diaoyu Islands until they defeated China in 1895 and claimed the Diaoyu Islands in 1896. If Japan had not believed that Diaoyu Islands belonging to China, Japan did not need to claim the Diaoyu Islands only after defeating China.

3) Japan was granted the administrative right over Diaoyu Island, not an owner of Diaoyu Islands. Japan is the same as a property managing company which responsible to maintain the property in good order, such as collecting trash etc. Although, in reality, the USA did not and does not have any right to grant even the administrative right of Chinese territory to any countries without China's permission.

4) China can produce a lot of historical evidences to prove that Diaoyu Islands have been belonging to China since the 13th Century, but Japan could produce zero pre-1885 historical evidence to support her claim. If Diaoyu Islands did belong to Japan, why is Japan unable to produce pre-1885 evidence to support her claim ?

5) As for now, the USA is using her military superiority to force China to stop getting back the Diaoyu Islands. The act of the USA is against the truth and damaging her own integrity. Regardless, this situation will end very soon.

-20 ( +13 / -33 )

This is not about " a few rocks and goats" This is a part of China's scheme to become a ocean state and control the west half of the Pacific.

17 ( +27 / -10 )

Does Japanese really believe US will protect them especially their government continues to do provocative actions? What US really want is money! Nothing more!

Japan and China better sit down and talk. This is the only way to resolve differences. Otherwise, other countries will simply manipulate the situation and and take advantage of it. Continuous contribution to the blood sucker is not a good idea.

-23 ( +6 / -30 )

As a start, the Japanese government should immediately order that all civilian airline flights between Narita, Kansai, Fukuoka, etc. and southern parts of mainland China be halted, since most of them overfly or fly close to Senkaku airspace. Let the militaries duke it out.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

China is off their rocker ....they really believe they can push Japan around and regardless of USA stating they'll defend Japan they will still push forward. As for readers thinking USA won't step in that's a mistake it's not just economical reasoning behind this. They don't want china to have valuable sea and airspace between Taiwan and Japan to grow in China's benefit.

USA isn't going to hestitate for a moment at jumping in at first sign of legitimate aggression.

17 ( +21 / -4 )

YuriOtaniNov. 24, 2013 - There is no way China can win a military conflict with the USA. It is not going to happen! Then add Japan, South Korea and Taiwan and it is a major loss.

R u commander of east asia? Taiwan won't join fighting of 2 or 3 stupid guys! and i also doubt if SK would like to join.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

What "provocative action"? This is not not-related-money. I do believe US will protect because 1. this is also US interest. 2. Treaty

5 ( +10 / -5 )

A year and something ago, SmithinJapan and I we're predicting that Ishihara's stupid ploy of trying to buy the islands would lead to something like this.

Something like what? More barking and no bite from China? I'd figure with all these barking and threats that they would make a move by now but announcing to the whole world of this realignment sound like more barking to appease the brainwashed masses while Abe gets basically a carte blanche to increase the defence budget without any opposition while at the same time getting approval from other parts of the world that they will change to conduct collective defence.

Well Japan you reap what you sow and China, who in the recent past have had no fear of going toe to toe with the US in Korea and Russia in the 1960s border disputes, will relish a chance to slap down Japan at the first opportunity and get a bit of revenge.

The opportunity to claim the islands were in the late 80's to 90's when Japan could care less about an uninhabited island. At least Korea was smart enough to take the islands by force when Japan was stripped of defence and had only a police agency. Now, they have no chance. Yonaguni city council passed a resolution to lease the property to Japanese government where they plan to build a base with 200 military personnels. Since the island is only 150 km away from Senkaku, we're talking roughly minutes for air deployment.

Agree with the above poster, as long as any conflict remains localized over the islands, war weary America isn't going to sacrifice US lives and the economy for a few rocks and goats

Get a map, turn to the far east Asia section where it has Japan, Taiwan, Korea and parts of China. Turn it counter clockwise 90 degrees. It isn't just rocks. It's blocking the access to Pacific Ocean.

Now go back in history and find out how and where Chiang Kai Shek got materials and resources to fight against Japan.

9 ( +15 / -5 )

U.S. vows to defend Japan after China announces new air zone

This isn't surprising at all considering the fact that the US had been encouraging Japan to challenge the status quo and reclaim territories it lost to the Allies in the various WWII peace treaties/agreements drafted by the US government itself in order to strengthen its control of Japan and at the sametime, sabotage its former allies and cold-war rivals China and the Soviet Union.

These include not only these islands but also the whole Kurile islands and Ryukyu islands that Japan lost to the Allies in the various WWII peace treaties/agreements such as:

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) :

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we (US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

San Francisco Peace Treaty

Article 2 (c)

Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands...

Article 3

Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 deg north latitude (i.e. including the Ryukyu Islands but excluding the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands)...

And the origin of Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty can be traced back to the following agreement made between the US and China during the Cairo Conference:

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands. According to the memorandum written by the Chinese side (Roosevelt's special assistant Harry Hopkins was present but did not apparently take notes), "The President referred to the question of the Ryukyu Islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus." To this, Chiang reportedly replied that "China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organization (UN trusteeship for decolonization of conquered colonies that was established in 1945 and as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty)""

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

While America seems weak and having mountain of problems in D.C., the bully communist China flexes the muscle thus showing the real ugly face to the world community. Guess what, it is the wrong move cause it helps Japan to resolve in increasing advance defense technology in all fronts. U.S. is bound by agreement to defend Japan, period. Maybe Okinawan(s) start to connect the dots better regarding U.S. forces on the island, unless they want own independence or belonging to China! Ultimately, the ICOJ should decide on all these claims; and not by one bully communist party of China. The world will beat the bully on his or her own game. Japan be strong and resolve.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

tinawatanabeNov. 24, 2013 - 04:07PM JST

This is not about " a few rocks and goats" This is a part of China's scheme to become a ocean state and control the west half of the Pacific.

The Domino Theory of the 21st Century.

The US aren't going to fall for that a second time, especially when the US public are made aware of what a bunch of right-wing militarist douchebags are in control in Japan.

Maybe all you 'let's stand up to China' posters on here, when all they want back is something that was stolen from them, might be able to step up to the mark, if Japan creates a foreign legion battalion.

Umm, didn't think so.. People are so cheap with other people's lives.

-15 ( +4 / -19 )

What a relief!

Now we can all sleep soundly at night, knowing we are not going to murdered in our beds!

Thank you U.S.A. for protecting us!

(Sarcasm)

-21 ( +6 / -27 )

Maybe all you 'let's stand up to China' posters on here, when all they want back is something that was stolen from them, might be able to step up to the mark, if Japan creates a foreign legion battalion

There's a place called International Court of Justice to determine the merits of their argument (It was stolen from us. waaah). May I suggest that route?

10 ( +17 / -6 )

@Bertie - Your dislike for the US is always so clear, sad and pathetic. Hopefully they will not protect the likes of you who can only find fault with the US. I understand your MO. Attack the US at all costs. Sure, it makes you feel good about yourself.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

China , before you start a conflict with Japan , sweep you doorstep clean about Tibet , and then You are allowed to talk to the others . You always say , that Japan made big mistakes in the past , but You made one too , with that religous country in the Himalaya

4 ( +10 / -6 )

This is not about " a few rocks and goats" This is a part of China's scheme to become a ocean state and control the west half of the Pacific.

This is exactly what it is all about. Whoever controls the oceans controls the land; The British knew it, the US knows it and if China wants to become the superpower that it wants to be it will have to control the seas.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Why would the U.S. defend Japan against a country that they conduct military drills with? U.S. and China militaries work together. Wake up Japan.

Google: "Chinese Troops Drill in Hawaii as Military Ties Deepen With U.S."

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

What the hell are you doing China?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The Domino Theory of the 21st Century.

I don't think she is talking about the domino theory here. This is a about a country (which in all but name is an empire) having designs on becoming a superpower. If you can control the oceans, you can control trade of necessary resources. China is following the example of Britain and the US, nothing more than that.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

While there is that old saying that "war is profitable", it won't be for China and as stupid and childish as China appears with all this posturing, it's smart enough to know that any war started by China would grind China to a halt. In the end civil unrest would occur and the country would be a mess. China needs the world as a customer for its products and business. China needs the world for its raw product requirements. China knows it can not afford to fight Japan and draw the US and possibly Russia into the fray. Canada while not a power house in the war effort would stop supplying China with raw product and that would hurt far more than weapons would. China is linked to the world economy and MUST play 'nice' otherwise what's left of their rise to 1st world status will come to an abrupt end. China may hold 8% of US debt so fighting the US hurts China as well.

The best thing China can do at this point is realize that the world has changed since WW2 and China needs to get past the past. Bullies don't get far in this 'new world playground' so if China doesn't figure it out soon enough, they will start the beginning of the end to their own growth and prosperity.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

And the water internet army continues to make silly propaganda bull.........

To all those that keep promoting the myth.....you are being mistaken, the US will defend Japan against any and all aggression by your masters! So when your bombs begin to drop understand that those bombs were brought to you by your silly leaders.

The end of their oppression is near, never fear freedom is that dim light you see in the distance......

PRC, the end is near.....

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Ishihara really is a moron and a lunatic. Nice work pal. The world thanks you for your idiocy.

But China have been just as stupid ever since, make no mistake about that. Because, whether they like it or not, those crappy little rocks they get so bent out of shape over are Japanese territory.

And now this.

The American statement is fairly transparent and unequivocal I think. They have laid their cards on the table in no uncertain term here. I'm sure the very last thing they would want is an armed conflict with China, but this is a direct threat to their position in the region. This burgeoning Chinese military strength is partly what the US has been working to contain since WW2.

Very interesting times ahead. Let's hope sensible heads prevail here.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I guess the hardliners are in power in China. Its just crazy to set up an air defense identification zone over Okinawa as China's air zone. Either they are trying to use this as a bargaining chip or something more serious is going on that we're not seeing. I think something more serious is going on behind the screen.

And this just also happens on the same day as the Iran Nuclear deal? Something is going on here behind the stage. I hope Japan knows how to deal with this properly and don't get suck into another attrition. This got the fingerprints of a grander scheme between China, Russia and US all together. Timing is very suspicious.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

China has done right. She cannot let Japan bully her anymore. In history, Japan has killed too many Chinese in China's soil and in SE Asia! These countries have been too weak to retaliate. Well maybe they will lose again but this time I am sure there will be casualty in Japanese soil. It is best that Japan adopts a more reasonable and conciliatory stance instead of forgetting history and wanting everyone else to forget. Forgiving does not equate to forgetting!!!

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

Who cares, you are all wasting your time...

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

What's China going to do? It has very little in terms of a blue-water navy.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

sandiegoluv,

I do NOT hate the U.S.A.

I hate what it has become.

The country that inspired us all as the New World, the bastion of Freedom and Democracy has turned into just another superstate run by greedy Barons.

What was open and honest has turned into covert and dishonest.

I don't see very much between China and the U.S.A. - politically.

Both are run by the superrich.

China calls itself the "people's republic," but isn't, and the U.S.A. says that it stands for Freedom and Democracy when it clearly doesn't.

-5 ( +8 / -14 )

I think this problem is too complicated. Neither country should assert its claim over the island by force.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I guess the politicians in China need some sort of distraction from likely domestic problems.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Hopefully that settles it for all the communists who come on this board with big talk about what the US won't do. Kerry just slapped you down like the infants you are. Back to your corner now.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

YuriOtani: "There is no way China can win a military conflict with the USA. It is not going to happen! Then add Japan, South Korea and Taiwan and it is a major loss."

Aren't you usually blaming the US military for everything under the rising sun? Now you are actually thankful for the US presence in Japan?

China is definitely upping the ante, and they are doing so in response to the same from Japan. We can all thank Ishihara for this -- he started this whole brouhaha. Some people like to forget that, but it doesn't make it less so. As I have said in the past. Stop trying to be 'diplomatic' on the island row when nothing is going to be solved and let it sit on the back-burner. Re-open talks on joint development of the gas fields and let the island issue slowly work itself out. Obviously ZERO has been accomplished by the hard lines these two nations are taking towards each other.

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

Air Defense ID Zone eh... when they said "non-commercial flights".... well, this incident will happen again, and again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Cathay_Pacific_Douglas_DC-4_shootdown

http://www.helianthus-productions.com/VRHEU.html

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is not about a few "goats and rocks;" it is about upholding preceding law in defense of an ally's valid interests. And whether a military skirmish breaks out or not is entirely in China's hands, in the first place, because they would have to fire a first shot. While one might not be a huge fan of all things Chinese, they tend towards peace, and their new map is likely more cleverness than threat.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Hmm, where'd the edit button go?

Japan is no angel as many have said before, but this among many other things clearly indicates either:

China's government has no control of its own military China is just not interested in peace, and in fact is now the "new" Imperial Japan

This is just insane, on all counts, no matter whether you are pro or anti-Japan.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

A lot of Chinese are beginning to notice the illusion of the Chinese Communist Party. Internal dissension within China will lead to the demise of the CCP. The conduct of the CCP can be called a licentious declaration of war this time.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

I am not talking about the domino theory. China has officially declared to become an ocean state, and talked about dividing the Pacific into two with USA.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

China is definitely upping the ante, and they are doing so in response to the same from Japan. We can all thank Ishihara for this -- he started this whole brouhaha. Some people like to forget that, but it doesn't make it less so. As I have said in the past. Stop trying to be 'diplomatic' on the island row when nothing is going to be solved and let it sit on the back-burner. Re-open talks on joint development of the gas fields and let the island issue slowly work itself out. Obviously ZERO has been accomplished by the hard lines these two nations are taking towards each other

China has no choice but to bark louder for any signs of weakness will be shifted to these brainwashed citizens rioting the streets. Thanks to Ishihara? You bet. Do you see the public as well as other party's lawmaker criticizing Ishihara now? Hell no. Ishihara was proven right when he stated Chinese were "can't be helped for they are uncivilized" after the riots during Asian Football Cup. He got a lot of criticism when he said that but when the riots occurred last year, he was most definitely laughing his a$$ off. Increase in military budget, right of collective self defence, and revision of constitution. Those were three taboo issues that Ishihara pleaded the government to address to no avail. I guess all that changed, and since you brought it up, "thanks to Ishihara".

And no. This isn't about the gas fields for two surveys were conducted by oil majors and found that there isn't much there to begin with coupled with the fact that the logistics cost would eat any profits. As others have stated, this is about access to the Sea Lane which for a developing nation like China, it's a Life line much like a bridge, road, electricity lines, and water lines for citizens.

7 ( +15 / -7 )

Well, what did they expect America to say ?

There are only so many islands China can steal before other countries wake up and do something about it.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/03/salami_slicing_in_the_south_china_sea

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Bernie

I hate what it has become. The country that inspired us all as the New World, the bastion of Freedom and Democracy has turned into just another superstate run by greedy Barons. What was open and honest has turned into covert and dishonest.

I completely agree with you there. But your cynical pop shot at America is unwarranted due to the nature of the post. You are not a US official who is in the "know" at all, therefore you have no idea. And a pop shot like the one that you just fired off is unnecessary. It is a just a slight at the US.

I don't see very much between China and the U.S.A. - politically.

Both are run by the superrich. China calls itself the "people's republic," but isn't, and the U.S.A. says that it stands for Freedom and Democracy when it clearly doesn't.

Yes, both are run by the super rich. But what country IS NOT? I think you need to educate yourself on the extreme differences between the two. The US does a lot of volunteer work, which is an unheard of idea with China. Who is raping Africa of its natural resources? China. Who has laid claim to all of the South China Sea infringing on the right of all, in said waters even though they are a signatory to the UNICLOS? China. Who has border disputes will of their nieghbors? China. Who occupies Tibet? Who sanctions religion and religious groups? China. The two are not entities that one could compare to each other. Get informed and dont let your anti-American drum beat too hard. It is sad when one takes a cheap pop shot like that to make themselves feel better.

As for the islands, I do believe they belong to China or Taiwan. There is strong historical evidence to support those claims. Inoue Kaoru, the Japanese Minister of Foreign Affairs, commented that the islands lay near to the border area with the Qing empire and that they had been given Chinese names. He also cited an article in a Chinese newspaper that had previously claimed that Japan was occupying islands off China's coast. Inoue was concerned that if Japan proceeded to erect a landmark stating its claim to the islands, it would make the Qing empire suspicious. Following Inoue's advice, Yamagata Aritomo, the Minister of the Interior, turned down the request to incorporate the islands, insisting that this matter should not be "revealed to the news media". There are maps written by Japanese that show the land that did not belong to them in different colors than that of Japan. Seems to me the Japan can only lay claim to them after the signing of the Shimonoseki Treaty in 1895 when they annexed Taiwan and other surrounding islands.

However there are lot of reasons to believe that they belong to Japan as well. Obviously US authorities believed that they belonged to Japan and since Japan has been the custodians of the islands for so long, they belong to them.

Or how about NOBODY? That sounds best to me. Japan was told by China to stay the status quo, but they choose to ignore that. HIllary Clinton told them to do so as well, but they ignored that as well. Everybody involved told Japan to not add gasoline to the fire, but that is exactly what they did. Now, what kind of response do you actually think was going to come out of China? "Oh, go ahead. They are yours". Let's be reasonable and not live in fantasy. What Japan should have done is stayed the course until a truly democratic government with an ear to listen controlled China. But it did not. Now, we have a pissing contest.

Deng Xiaoping said, "It does not matter if this question is shelved for some time, say, 10 years. Our generation is not wise enough to find common language on this question. Our next generation will certainly be wiser. They will certainly find a solution acceptable to all."

Maybe in 30 years time.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@Tohka "Japan is no angel as many have said before"

What has Japan done wrong? Japan has a war renouncing constituion, and now only tries to defend itself.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

You can trust the PRC... http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/schwarz-cover.html

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

China`s continued aggression is a sad development to watch. I hope Japan stands up to it, because if you appease aggressors there is no end to new demands (as Europe learned last century).

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I think the problem is both. Had Ishihara not have pushed so hard the Chinese may or may not be acting like this at all. However, China belligerence is nothing new and is very widely understood to be a huge problem with other Asian countries.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Which countries invade other countries? Which country started the wars in the past 30 years? Which country use unmanned fighter to kill civilian non-stoppingly? Which country tries to control the world? Which country allies with other countries to bully some independent countries?

I think this is crystal clear. Which country (countries) is more BELLIGERENCE?!

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Many chinese are isolated. Like they live in another time.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

CrazedinjapanNov. 24, 2013 - 04:32PM JST USA isn't going to hestitate for a moment at jumping in at first sign of legitimate aggression.

Absolutely correct. The China supporting internet warriors have no idea just how seriously the United States takes China's territorial expansion. History has shown that there are few countries in the world, if any, that are "more likely to respond with force" than the United States when such action is called for. China is pushing it. China supports can take this blaming Japan, blaming Ishihara nonsense to the recycle bin along with their alleged claims of ancient ownership. China's plans to take over the entire East and South China Seas was made by the PLA Navy themselves as early as 2003. If China is looking for a limited conflict, they will get it and lose. If hey want to start a real war, it will be China against the entire world.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

@Lemon. Oh, brother! Yeah, China had done none of those things? Yeah, right.

Which countries invade other countries? Ask the Tibetans. Which country started the wars in the past 30 years? There have been many. Which country tries to control the world? They all do. Ask China's neighbors. Which country use unmanned fighter to kill civilian non-stoppingly? The unmanned weapons are not meant to kill innocent civilians. Mistakes do happen. I think that any country's leaders that have that capability to spare their people the burden of having to go to war will use them to fight a war. Nothing wrong with that. Innocent people are also often killed by ground troops as well. Which country allies with other countries to bully some independent countries? Once again, China tries to bully all of its neighbors.

Sorry, I know you want to say the USA is an evil entity, but that is just nonsense. All countries are evil. People are evil. It matters only who has the power and who does not. Those who have the power will you it to bend the world to their ways weather you like it or not. Those who do not have the power will fall victim.

China's bullying is a fact of life. It argues with ALL OF ITS NEIGHBORS and does not do anything for the international community at all. NOTHING. That can not be said for the USA.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

US and China navies have conducted drills together. I very much doubt the US would attack China. This is all propaganda to get Japan to buy more weapons from the US. The US needs the money so they can try to pay back the money they owe to... CHINA.

"Chinese Troops Drill in Hawaii as Military Ties Deepen With U.S." http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-11-11/chinese-troops-drill-in-hawaii-as-military-ties-deepen-with-u-dot-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzoiUlnFDFc

Wake up Japan. Enlisted US military are dipschits. F'n tools.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Lemon FunNov. 24, 2013 - 10:17PM JST

Which countries invade other countries? Which country started the wars in the past 30 years? Which country use unmanned fighter to kill civilian non-stoppingly? Which country tries to control the world? Which country allies with other countries to bully some independent countries?

I think this is crystal clear. Which country (countries) is more BELLIGERENCE?!

Lemon FunNov. 24, 2013 - 04:22PM JST

Does Japanese really believe US will protect them especially their government continues to do provocative actions? What US really want is money! Nothing more!

Japan and China better sit down and talk. This is the only way to resolve differences. Otherwise, other countries will simply manipulate the situation and and take advantage of it. Continuous contribution to the blood sucker is not a good idea.

Hello, Mr. Lemon, don't you think you are flip-flopping in your posts listed above. Your suggestion Japan and China better sit down and talk does not sounds too sincere if I read your first post. That's why I do not have too much faith in Chinese people and China.

Stick with what you say and do. I see that quite often in all your posts. Not sincere at all. Pay attention to someone like me who read all posts very carefully.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

sandiegoluv,

Good post.

I find much to agree with.

But, please. The name is BERTIE, not BERNIE.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

My deepest apologies, Bertie.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So many comments and yet the key issue remains: who started all these first. Why did peace over the past so many years change recently? The perpetrator should apologize for their mistake and undo it. But it is impossible to make pirates, robbers and thieves confess and so the mess continues and becomes even more messy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@tina: you are absolutely correct. I am speaking of the war period, as Japanese troops came extremely close to murdering my parents. (I'm Chinese by birth.)

Yet, even despite that long ago grievous wrong that was done, I cannot find it in myself like many of my fellow Chinese to dig up the past and use it purely for political gain in the name of aiguo wuzui (patriotism, can't put in kanji as I'm doing this on my phone).

Please let me say that not all Chinese support what is going on. Even though the CCP postures thinking it speaks for all Chinese, it doesn't. Well at least not for me.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@Tohka.

Great post. I like how you think there. The past needs to be buried, not brought up for political gain. If more people thought like you, in Japan and China, we probably would not have a problem. Good for you. Way to go, bro.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I just read more articles concerning this air defense identification zone. They are actually copying what Japan has been doing, drafting EEZ zone and air defense zone into law so it can legally detain and arrest foreign entity that enters into the area with malicious intent.

The more I read into this, the more brilliant on what China is actually doing. They are trying to legally obtain these disputed islands based on their own laws. Before, there is no such decree based on national security and thus the argument would be much weaker.

One thing is clear from this. China will never let this go. Ever. Now China is putting its national security stamp on this which is a whole other level of ball game. I can see why everyone is getting nervous about this because any further conflict in the area can easily become a military one by laws that are set on both sides.

Since Japan has an air defense identification zone and Japan has stated in just the past few weeks that it will shoot down planes, drones that intrude in the area. China is now responding to Japan's decree that it also has setup an air defense identification zone that it sees fit. Its clearly a tit for tat move.

Its definitely an escalation but not an unforseeable one. Its reactionary but somehow, with the way that the reality of control within that area, China seems to be doing quite good coming out of this. I think this chess game is heavily tilted to their favors. It could also suggest that they had been possibly dozens of steps ahead of what Japan and US had not anticipated. I wonder what's next. It'll be crazy if China pulls a 9/18 over Japan's own game. It has all the elements to make that happen.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

DogNov. 24, 2013 - 10:50PM JST OssanAmericaNov. 24, 2013 - 10:44PM JST No, I've lived through the Vietnam war, Panama, Grenada, Gulf I, Gulf II, Afghanistan and have a pretty good idea of >US responses to certain situations.

Notice how everyone of those countries is a no-nuts country. China is a different kettle of fish. Someday you should come to Japan and see what is going on here with the right-wing nutjobs.

What you fail to recognize is that the United States brought the USSR to ruin, mainly because of our credibility as a country that can and will take action when required. The Soviets most certainly believed this. That China to this date has not simply launched as military assault to take the Senkakus is clear evidence that they too recognize U.S. credibility in this regard. Come to Japan? I was there all June. I will be there in the next 5 days. I first saw Japanese right-wingers in the late 60s. They had more clout then and anti-US sentiment was far greater than it is now by a thousand fold with an ongoing student anti-US movement. The right-wingers in Japan today are a fringe bunch, allowed to exist because Japan is a democracy and unfortunately an annoyance to everyone in Japanese society. However, they have no say in the government or politics as much as J-hating China and SKorea would like to believe.Furthermore, while they may be annoyance, they hardly pose a threat to any other country or to peace in the region. Contrast that to the neo-fascist communist dictatorship called China: "As tensions between China and Japan escalate, China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has been told to prepare for war in a training directive issued by the General Staff Headquarters, which oversees the entire PLA." http://www.voanews.com/content/chinas-peoples-liberation-army-pla-prepare-for-war/1585348.html

TohkaNov. 24, 2013 - 11:26PM JST Please let me say that not all Chinese support what is going on. Even though the CCP postures thinking it speaks for >all Chinese, it doesn't. Well at least not for me.

I praise you for your honesty and courage to post this.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The US will protect Japan for the moment simply because it is in it's interests to do so, the more frightening question is will they be able to in say ten years when their economy has collapsed. There is no way that the US want China to have control of the sea around the whole of Asia but they might have to give it up.

What you fail to recognize is that the United States brought the USSR to ruin, mainly because of our credibility as a country that can and will take action when required.

What you fail to realize is what happened to the USSR will happen to the USA within a generation, maybe less. They are on the verge of bankruptcy. The US might have a little stand off with China but they would be foolhardy to go to war with an emerging superpower. The USA doesn't like wars they much prefer massacring populations in weaker countries like Iraq and Vietnam.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Japanese should wake up from history and protect themselves. We are in 21st century not 1945. In desperate times, how much more will US be willing to sacrifice for Japan?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

pochanNov. 25, 2013 - 12:19AM JST The US will protect Japan for the moment simply because it is in it's interests to do so, the more frightening question is >will they be able to in say ten years when their economy has collapsed. There is no way that the US want China to >have control of the sea around the whole of Asia but they might have to give it up.

The US enters defense treaties because it is in it's interests to do so. You are simply stating the obvious. As far as Japan is concerned, the US has had the Mutual Security treaty since 1960. As for your notion that the US economy will have collapsed in 10 years, please stop to think where the Chinese economy, as well as the rest of the world would be, if the biggest economy in the world collapsed?

"What you fail to recognize is that the United States brought the USSR to ruin, mainly because of our credibility as a country that can and will take action when required."

What you fail to realize is what happened to the USSR will happen to the USA within a generation, maybe less. They >are on the verge of bankruptcy. The US might have a little stand off with China but they would be foolhardy to go to >war with an emerging superpower. The USA doesn't like wars they much prefer massacring populations in weaker >countries like Iraq and Vietnam.

The USA is so far ahead of China militarily that the odds of the US going "bankrupt" by keeping up with China, are literally non-existent. Hence the same thing that happened to the USSR will not happen to the United States. You are incorrect in your last statement. The US military is actually geared and designed to obliterate large militaries, a carry over from the cold war days. The US would have an easier time with the PLA than with guerillas. If you think for a moment that the U.S. would hesitate or be "afraid" to counter Chinese military aggression, then you are really living in a dream world.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The United States says that it has no position on the islands’ ultimate sovereignty but believes that they are currently under Japanese administration.

That just about says all what United States really think of this island dispute.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

@Pochan

Another USA basher I see.

they much prefer massacring populations in weaker countries like Iraq and Vietnam

Seriously? Seriously? That was all they were doing, just massacring innocent civilians? Some of you anti-Americans need to ........... Nevermind. Just get a life, I suppose.

What you fail to remember is that the USA has been on the verge of bankruptcy so many times over the past few decades but there is no reason to believe that within the next ten or even twenty years that it will fall. That is what you want. Not what is in the forecast.

China would be foolhardy to get into a pissing contest with the US in the next twenty years. They have the experience that China does not have and also the military capability that an immature Chinese military does not have.

Fact is China would be the foolhardy one to push this issue any further. They do not posses the capabilities that the USA does. The USA would be able to gather forces against the Chinese much easier than the opposite as well. Who could the Chinese get to support their cause? Anyone from the South China Sea or any of its neighbors??? HARDLY. China has made everyone angry, even the Africans because they have pillaged their economic resources. China's only friends would be, North Korea and Iran. Oh, they might get a tear from Putin but that will be about it.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@sandiegoluv

... they might be able to wrangle Pakistan into lining up on their side too, but yeah that's about it. North Korea, Iran and Pakistan. What a sad list of "friends". And I disagree about Putin ... he wouldn't even spare them one tear.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Sandie, have a look at the links I posted in my earlier posts. It shows a 1954 incident where the PLAAF deliberately riddled a civilian airliner with .50cal BMG bullets, then attacked any craft going on search and rescue ops.

I guess the CCP internet army considers it okay to gloss over something like this and then bleat and moan about other people "whitewashing."

0 ( +2 / -2 )

chucky3176Nov. 25, 2013 - 12:40AM JST "The United States says that it has no position on the islands’ ultimate sovereignty but believes that they are currently under Japanese administration."

That just about says all what United States really think of this island dispute.

Nope. This does:

"Hagel reiterated that the Japanese-administered Senkaku islands—which the Chinese claim and call the Diaoyu—fell under the U.S.-Japan security treaty, meaning that Washington would defend its ally Tokyo if the area is attacked."

This means that the only way China is going to take the Senkakus is by force and that means a conflict with the United States which they are not prepared to engage. Therefore China's plans have already failed.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

@ yosun and YuriOtaniN IF a military scenario takes place, and the US is involved, it won't just be Japan and USA (possibly SK). USA is a part of NATO after all, all the NATO countries would be obliged to help USA... War is the worst case scenario, but it's not easy to talk with china, who respect nothing or no one.. It's our fault for giving them their position in power. They make our electronics and clothes, we boosted their economy, now they might be unstoppable.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Bertie, I agree with you that the US sucks now. But I mean, compared to China? For god sake, its not even a comparison. For all the backwards crap Japan makes you go through, you can at least become Japanese and own Japanese land if you wanted. Mainland China? You could be imprisoned for no reason or recourse for the rest of your life, let alone possible death.

Yes, the US sucks. But they're still all the worlds got. And if the US is ready to step out of the door, China will only become an irresponsible bully. If the US is a house of crazed super heroes, China is an abused child that blames his second cousin in law (Japan) for all the abuse he got as a child, so now he abuses other people too and blames it on everyone else EXCEPT himself. "Oh, it wouldn't be like this now if it weren't for my second cousin beating me like a savage!" Well, the crazed heroes dad smacked some shape into the second cousin in law back when he was the best role model in town, meanwhile is commited to doing some peaceful things as clumsy as he is.

China will want nothing good from its power. Push more of its culture, more of its language, take what it can and leave as little as possible. They don't share, and they don't care. America may have all the wealth but they also have immigrants from all over the world carving out a living, making Apple and countless other companies. China has Huawei and weibo which is regulated and has its pockets messed with by the CCP.

Yeah, I'm all cool with China if their government collapses and China becomes like Europe, where people live free and each region gets to be themselves without the Han police coming up and arresting anybody that looks at them funny or doesn't say nihao, but noooooo lets control a bunch of islands that we didn't even care about till 1970 something. China could have let this go but they just had to have it. Priorities priorities. War mongering priorities.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The US has always vowed to protect and defend its allies, that is given.

However, If the US has to choose its own national interests over its allies’ ones in pragmatical manner , the answer should a no-brainier..

Case in point, as we know, the US has pledged to support Israel, its closest ally in the Middle East, for more than half century, but the newly inked Iranian nuclear deal yesterday behind closed doors rendered a bit, let’s say, differently even the US still (right at this moment) maintains its position openly and strongly in terms of supporting Israel.

To people who may not be aware: to avoid to a possible clash with the US Congress which has been under immense Israeli lobbying efforts for years, Obama has chosen to use his executive power to provide some amount of sanction relief to Iran for the interim period. That is somewhat a strategical maneuver.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

What's going on? I thought it's not US island.

When it counts, the only thing right wing nuts can make is US's protection? LOL

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

ina just wants to be the big man now. They can't forget their previous war losses with Japan and wants payback. China is in dispute over territory with other Asian neighbors as well. This may blow over. Will the U.S. really come to Japan's aid over China? Who knows? The U.S. will probably stay on the sidelines. I for one am getting tired over China thumping its chest!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Japan alone going hysterical over this. It's like watching a car wreck.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

chucky3176Nov. 25, 2013 - 02:13AM JST

Japan alone going hysterical over this. It's like watching a car wreck.

I think this is a cave man's view. Please read global digital newspapers to see if your comment is accurate.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

chucky3176Nov. 25, 2013 - 02:13AM JST Japan alone going hysterical over this. It's like watching a car wreck.

It's not big news in Japan. Your comment is completely inaccurate.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Well, it's about time the US made an affirmative declaration, a vow, to defend Japan in this issue. It's taken a while, but then, they've had a lot of troubles on their hands lately, so I guess I can excuse them for that. I'm not a particularly big fan of the US, but they do make good decisions occasionally, and standing with Japan against the expansionist bully China is one of them. If this doesn't serve as a wake up call to China, nothing will unfortunately. They've become quite stubborn, determined to flex their muscles and show off their strength. It's not all about muscle-power you know. People don't respect a brutal dictatorship, they fear it. Fear and respect are not the same thing. Respect is more constructive. Fear is counterproductive, and will ultimately lead to rebellion. If China continues on this path, it's going to pay for it severely, sooner or later.

A directed point to AustralianexpatinChina now: WWII is history now. I made a comment yesterday that was also removed, about how Britain doesn't distrust Germany despite its actions in WWII. They were the primary antagonists during that war as well. Yet Britain and Germany now get along quite well, and there are no longer any hard feelings between the two nations, only jokes (Two World Wars and One World Cup being a popular British brag). So why is it that China and Japan should be any different? Because China is a petulant child, that's why. Britain and Germany are mature enough to put the past behind them. If China would grow up, it could share the same relationship with Japan that Britain shares with Germany. Once our enemies, now one of our biggest allies. But not if China keeps flexing its muscles, and provoking Japan. A move which is now attracting so much attention that the US is vowing to defend Japan.

I really do hope that China will take the US vow to defend Japan as a sign that its expansionist program is no longer viable, before armed conflict breaks out. It would be a sad sight to learn of people dying for a cause that was never their own, just because their leaders are too arrogant to admit that they are in the wrong.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

chucky, aren't people concerned because it happened not only to Japanese ID zone but Korean zone as well. Or they're still happy about the statue in China?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

China is hoping that the US blinks. The US is not going to blink. The US will stand by her close ally Japan and with her sister democracy every time over the totalitarian Chinese regime. But China is not really doing what its doing as means of exerting its international power, its doing what its doing in regards to the Senkaku Islands solely for its domestic audience. The saber rattling from China is meant to be food for Chinese nationalist back in China. China knows she will not come out on top if there is war. The Chinese don't want war, Japan doesn't want war and the US doesn't want war. If war were to come, the US and Japan would have the most chance at coming out better, unless it went nuclear and Japan was hit. China has nothing to gain from a war and everything to lose. The US will defend the Senkaku Islands just like they defend every Japanese Island, which is part of the larger mutual defense pact between the two democratic nations.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Are these Islands and waterways worth an all out world war with China? We cannot prevent all their ICBMS from hitting the US!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yet another example of the bully China showing that it is still following a 19th century imperialist plan. No one in their right mind will support such antics. It is only in their own mind the Chinese have any right to try to put any claim to Japanese territory. They cannot change reality by unilateral fiat. Making up some illusion of a "special air zone" is just laughable. And tho the Japanese have make a reasonable and careful reply, I am sure the SDF are laughing their heads off at the fallacy of it all. It certainly is not a way to make friends in the Pacific rim that is for sure. And I can assure any doubters that the US will fully support its treaty with Japan and there will be NO unilateral action by China that is not faced with full and complete US military response. No one who knows the US history and dedication to treaty obligations has any doubt about that. I continue to be very impressed with the Japanese and the very reasonable and careful response to all of the Chinese antics. Very commendable.

And as for history, we can all regret things that happened in the past but the past IS the past, nothing can be changed about it, and we must live in the present for it is the fact of realty now.

Good coverage Japan Today, well researched and well done. I am glad to see so many intelligent posts here too, the small cabal of carefully crafted pro chinese posts are clearly dealt with and quite fairly answered on every point.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Like many of people in this heated forum, I firmly believe, Japan has more positive values to offer to the world than its bitterly rivalry counterpart – China. My view are derived after worked in both counties for some lengths of times in last two years.

That being said, the notion that China will soon collapse in no time as the Soviet Union did in 80’s would a bit stretch if the history can give us some hints. For the record, the Russian hasn’t faded away in the world stage as many of us hoped, in fact, the recent Syrian chemical weapon deal has inadvertently given the Russian even more leverages in the Middle East region than that before the “red-line” crisis.

For past 60 plus years, we, the west, led by the US secretly wished China would be toppled by its own people who have suffered incredibly by the ruthless political repressions. Unfortunately, it did not happen. And hold your breath; it may not occur soon either. Why? Part of answers would be that similar to the Japanese, the Chinese national psyche seems to have the capabilities and adaptability to weather all sorts of ” storms” and make the needed transformations at the same time. If you’d look back to examine how much China has changed in social, political and economic landscapes for the last decade, you would be able to see things in a different context.

Gradually, The US comes to the point to realize that the a quick Chinese internal regime change is a highly unlikely occurrence , so how to protect the American’s national interests and harvest economical benefits in Asia have become a big challenge amid the Chin’s fast rise. For quite some times, the US has used the veiled threats to warn China for its behaviors with an option on the table to use its supreme forces, the results so far have been spotty. So to alter the dynamics, Obama Administration has been working hard in trying to find a workable formula: to provide China with some tangible incentives in exchange for China to follow rule of law; in the meantime, to avoid a deadly and costly war, which the US public has grown clearly tired of it after going through the wars of Iraq and Afghan.

Whether or not the revised American Asian Doctrine will work, it’s still hard to tell at this juncture, but so far the US and China have been able to maintain some cooperation in certain fronts, and such opportunities for two huge countries to work for peace together are growing in some aspects.

For Japan, the challenges would be: how to balance its acts and its positions without being a victim between two giant’s duels and deals. Nevertheless, I think Japan will be alright as it has proven its resiliency and adaptability so many times in the history. Further, the future elections in Japan might also allow it to detour from the current hawkish courses to make some kind of peace-building deals with its neighbors.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

There's only one answer for this. Everyone here drop their keyboards and mouse, go join the Japanese Self Defense force. Then go fight off the Chinese in the Senkakus to defend the motherland from the evil Chinese hordes.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

chucky3176Nov. 25, 2013 - 05:42AM JST There's only one answer for this. Everyone here drop their keyboards and mouse, go join the Japanese Self Defense >force. Then go fight off the Chinese in the Senkakus to defend the motherland from the evil Chinese hordes.

We all know what happened when those same hordes cross the Yalu.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

DYI. Change the Constitution. "The best defense is a strong offense." The USA is broke financially, and China knows it. Step up, Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan also has a similar air zone which they announced way before China did. What Japan did, has triggered China's responses. Now Japan cries victim like they always do, forgetting what they did to cause it in the first place. The ludicrous part of this is that third countries like Korea that has nothing to do with this dispute now must ask permission from both Japan and China to fly out of Jeju Island, because both China and Japan's air defense claims overlap each other's, as well as Korea's territories.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Chucky, South Korea has got it's own zone created before. What's even funnier, the zone established by Chinese isn't overlaping only Japanese zone. It overlaps South Korean zone as well.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

We all know what happened when those same hordes cross the Yalu.<

Wish all US Strategic planners think like you, Sweet, guess you are top graduate from west point or Sandhurst Military Academy .

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Have a look at Japan's air defense claims that were drawn up one sided in 2006, after another clash with China over Senkaku.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9933/ryoukuu8ew.jpg

Japanese even includes the Korean island of Dokto into their air defense area. The light blue area is the "Air Defence Identification Zone", it is defined by Japan's SDF alone. There is no international law governing such definition because you basically have every right to scramble your jets from your land base, if unidentified plane encroaches an area that you define as your defense zone. Engaging on the encroaching target is another story altogether, and you better have a good explanation why you decided to fire on the target.

So the question is, if Japan can do this in 2006, why can't China do a similar move in 2013, after Japanese nationalized the Senkaku's? And another question is why Japan is the only country hysterical over this? I say it's the Japanese press and the Japanese government, whipping up nationalism to use to rearm Japan and change the constitution to a more authoritarian system where criticisms against the government are stymied.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

@Smith

"China is definitely upping the ante, and they are doing so in response to the same from Japan."

Does it appear to you that Chinas (now) 10-dot line was in response to anything Japan has done?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Have a look at the expanded Japanese air defense zone that was published few years ago.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9929/japanclaimedeez4pg8fo.jpg

That's a huge swath of the Pacific, how can any non Japanese aircraft NOT encroach on Japan's air defense zone? Something definitely think about when the next Japanese media headline screams "Chinese/Russian aircrafts entered Japanese airspace". Laughably, Japan has Dokto as part of their air space, when they don't even have possession of the island which they call Takeshima. I guess now Japanese can understand why Koreans are angered when Japanese keep claiming that island. Does anybody else see the hypocrisy of Japan? If they do it, it's all explainable and rational. If anybody else do the same, it's hostile attack on Japan, and Japan is the victim.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@hiding out

(Putin) Maybe a crocodile tear?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japanese even includes the Korean island of Dokto into their air defense area. The light blue area is the "Air Defence Identification Zone", it is defined by Japan's SDF alone.

Nope, you're wrong. The correct maps are here:

http://news.nate.com/view/20131124n17068?mid=n0204

Takeshima sin't included in the Japanese zone as those are lines designed by no other country than US. South Korean AF respects that and don't intrude into Japanese zone and if that happens it does it according to the rules and it's not a call for scrampling.

On the same map you'll see how China did the same to Korean zone as well as japanese zone - incorporated part of it established by both countries. You're a day too late? I'm asking because after the initial extasy for showing up Japan where is it place the Korean medias picked up the next day that a part of it is in Korean zone... How did South Korea react? Or still in extasy after the promised Ahn's statue showing first signs of good will from PRC without the hard landing yesterday when Chinese military where they have Koreans?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

ChenChan, thanks for showing the map of Koreans say on what the Japanese air zone really should be. But we all know Japan has its own understanding of the Japanese air defense zone which I already showed you. How does what you just posted disprove anything I've already said? Japan doesn't even recognize Dokto as Korean territory, are you saying Japan agrees with Korea and does not claim Takeshima and the air over it as Japanese?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

But we all know Japan has its own understanding of the Japanese air defense zone which I already showed you.

You showed baseless map from wikipedia.

Japan doesn't even recognize Dokto as Korean territory, are you saying Japan agrees with Korea and does not claim Takeshima and the air over it as Japanese?

I can tell you that Japanese airplains aren't flying over Takeshima. Seems like your country ballance with China is one sided and you've just eaten a first rotten apple. There will be more from Chinese and nothing that you can do alone in the future. That's all about South Korean-Chinese rapprochement. For the Party you're as meaningful as Phillipines when it comes to rights unless you're on all-in US side.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

You showed baseless map from wikipedia.

No I didn't. So why don't you post your own map of what Japan claims then?

I can tell you that Japanese airplains aren't flying over Takeshima.

Just because Japanese planes don't fly over it, in fear of clash with Koreans, doesn't mean Japan doesn't claim it as theirs, nor do they give up on their air defense zone claim over Takeshima. What Japan is doing with Takeshima, is what Chinese are doing exactly to Japanese, over the Senkaku.

Seems like your country ballance with China is one sided and you've just eaten a first rotten apple

Wrong here too again. S.Korea doesn't take side with China on this one, nor Japan either. It sucks to be in a bad neighborhood.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

What Japan is doing with Takeshima, is what Chinese are doing exactly to Japanese, over the Senkaku.

What Japan is doing with Senkaku is exactly what South korea is doing with Takeshima. What Chinese is doing Ieodo is exactly what it's doing with Senkaku Islands.

No I didn't. So why don't you post your own map of what Japan claims then?

I posted what a map with the line which both South Korea and Japan respect. There aren't any scramblings from Korean or Japanese side in the area of Takeshima.

Wrong here too again. S.Korea doesn't take side with China on this one, nor Japan either. It sucks to be in a bad neighborhood.

Seems like that Ahn's statue wasn't worth all the work over it when you consider the money that South Korea will have to pay every time there will be scrambling over Ieodo from Chinese planes? Tough life with China ;) Treated nothing more than Philippines or Vietnam when it comes to disputes.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What Japan is doing with Senkaku is exactly what South korea is doing with Takeshima.

Exactly. Then why Japan is almost ready to go to war with China?

What Chinese is doing Ieodo is exactly what it's doing with Senkaku Islands.

No it's not. Ieodo is nothing but a reef submerged underwater. Korea has a station there, but even within Korea, there's no agreement that, that could be considered an island. The territorial dispute with China has been on-going since the early 1990's but both countries don't use it for nationalist purposes and try to avoid conflict over it. The Chinese also sail around it.

I posted what a map with the line which both South Korea and Japan respect. There aren't any scramblings from Korean or Japanese side in the area of Takeshima.

You got it. What countries claim on paper, is not what they act on when it really comes to military clashes.

Seems like that Ahn's statue wasn't worth all the work over it when you consider the money that South Korea will have to pay every time there will be scrambling over Ieodo from Chinese planes? Tough life with China ;) Treated nothing more than Philippines or Vietnam when it comes to disputes.

And you were doing so well until this. I suggest you read my post over again about what's drawn on paper isn't exactly how it's going to be (despite what the Japanese media hype tries to paint it as), unless Japan really wants this war with China that is...

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

While I agree that no sensible should go to war over some "rocks and goats", it's also true that nations have made such mistakes throughout history. China's actions today might reasonably compare to the United States, but only the USA of the late nineteenth Century, not that of the early Twenty-First Century.

China is acting stupidly, and if Japan has been at all unwise in the process it has at least not tried to ratchet the potential hostilities to a hair-trigger catastrophe situation.

Claims on islands, or "islands", wherever in clearly international waters, should be taken to international arbitration. That also applies to Japan, or Korea, or other nations disputing territory.

But China should not be allowed to impose self-proclaimed defense zones to disputed islands, and the cost of potential armed actions should be made clear to China.

The United States does take serious its mutual defense obligations, and China is unwise to test such resolve. Japan would have to take the first steps to militarily protect disputed territories, but if China then threatens the Japanese homeland their defense forces include all United States military forces in the Pacific.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

U.S. has been at war for 2 out of every 3 years, since the Cold War ended. It needs constant conflicts for its military industries and reasons for its global hegemony.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@chucky: China made no complaints over Japan including the Senkaku's in its ADIZ. It was only after the discovery that the islands were close to energy rich waters, and after the Japanese government purchased some of the islands from one of its own citizens that China started to kick up a fuss. They don't care about the rocks, just the goodies. That's why China has re-drawn it's ADIZ to include the Senkakus. Not only that, but they encroach on the KADIZ. Also, Japan doesn't include Takeshime/Dokto in its ADIZ. The link you provided is inaccurate.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It is my belief China will make the first attack. We will see if the Americans fulfill their obligation to Japan under treaty. I think they will protect Japan. If not the Chinese may not win but we will lose ships and thousands of SDF personal. As for South Korea and Taiwan, both want to see China lose for different reasons. Losing this war may even cause the Communist to fall. In that way the mainland will be liberated from the butchers. For the Republic of Korea the North will lose its best friend.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Tohka. Once again thank you for being honest. It is inspiring.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Seriously? Seriously? That was all they were doing, just massacring innocent civilians? Some of you anti-Americans need to ........... Nevermind. Just get a life, I suppose.

And you wonder why so much of the world hates you. You can't even take responsibility for your own mistakes.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Dog

A year and something ago, SmithinJapan and I we're predicting that Ishihara's stupid ploy of trying to buy the islands would lead to something like this.

Well Japan you reap what you sow and China, who in the recent past have had no fear of going toe to toe with the US in Korea and Russia in the 1960s border disputes, will relish a chance to slap down Japan at the first opportunity and get a bit of revenge.

Agree with the above poster, as long as any conflict remains localized over the islands, war weary America isn't going to sacrifice US lives and the economy for a few rocks and goats.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

YOU must be drunk, Pochan.

You over simplify things..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

All this is about money. Everyone says it belongs to Japan or China or whoever when in reality it doesnt. It belongs to everyone.we all all human we only have one planet to live on and share but our leaders want power so they divide us telling us the other side is wrong and will threaten bloodshed if they don't get there way the leaders sit back as there people are sent to die. Its always about money. Until love of peace overcomes love of moneythis stuff won't stop

2 ( +2 / -0 )

and this new war will be fought economically and electronically just as much as with bombs bullets and rockets.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Uh-Oh, trouble is brewing.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/25/world/asia/china-japan-disputed-islands/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Japan is really escalating this and being the aggressor.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I would like to ask your opinion on how that link supposedly constitutes as a "escalation"?

All it shows is an opinion from the CCP. An opinion is not established fact.

I really have to wonder if some of you are actually just paid your 50 mao to make noise by the Propaganda Ministry. Those 8 US cents must be really important to you.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Tohka.

Wait and see and also read history about similar events. The USA will have something to say as well as the other UNSC Members.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I've read the history thank you very much, it shows that Chinese history is just as sordid as everyone elses'. Does Chinese history lessons at this time cover such topics as 6/4 or as I stated earlier, how the PLAAF, when they tried this 'ADIZ" stunt last time in 1954, they brutally, barbarically and deliberately murdered the occupants of a COMMERCIAL airliner, and actively attacked ALL craft engaging in Search and Rescue for these survivors?

I thought not.

I AM Chinese as well - and the "history" line doesn't sit well with me one bit. It is personal with me, my parents came close to being butchered by IJA troops, yet I find this flagrant desire on the side of the PRC to embrace such an old hate........revolting. It is almost as if because "you are Chinese, it is your DUTY TO HATE JAPANESE". Yet I doubt many of you that are in such an agitating state are willing to even pick up a weapon and go fulfill these homicidal desires, let alone in an environment where the other side is shooting back, whether Chinese or Japanese.

No wonder time and time again topics like this just sicken me beyond belief and continually justify my decision to sever all my ties from China and the PRC.

I fail to see how your link constitutes an "escalation", China is entitled to an opinion as much as Japan is entitled to their own. That is all it is.

Also, please don't take this as a personal attack, as that is not my intention to single you out. You dislike Japan, that is fair enough, and you have your own reasons, which you seem really cryptic about, but you're entitled to them.

I also want to emphasize in the utmost that this is not a blank case of support for Japan. There are things that Japan have done recently that have not helped. However, there are many other ways that China can achieve its outcomes without coming so dangerously close to spilling more lives - in my opinion they just choose not to. In fact, I believe their actions do nothing but fuel and feed the Japanese far right, far more than people believe.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I don't dislike Japan, USA or China(not from any of those places).

Telling the USA to 'butt out' is NOT a decision and so fas always provoked a bad response. I all for world peace having seen and experienced to much war and suffering. In war everybody is a loser.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Fair call. Apologies if my previous post sounded too extreme.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

there is no free aid: http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/11/20/is-the-us-exploiting-typhoon-suffering-to-win-military-bases-in-the-philippines/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It"S MENov. 25, 2013 - 06:26PM JST Uh-Oh, trouble is brewing. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/25/world/asia/china-japan-disputed-islands/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 Japan is really escalating this and being the aggressor.

Thanks for the link I read the article and China is clearly and undeniably the aggressor. Please keep posting such links.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Tohka, I love the way you think.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Looks like a Chinese invasion here on Japan Today. Typical nationalism of a society controlled and formed by a totalitarian type of leadership, when from birth, information and resources of all knowledge is controlled and censored by the government with results that we have seen throughout history, leading to this type of society within China still to this day. We have seen these same results in all other restricted countrries around the world led by brutal dictators. ...This of course is to be expected and is condemed and looked down upon by all the developed countries around the world here in the twenty first century which seems China has not moved into yet as a country and especially as a society. If so, the people of China would break the chains that has bound them for centuries and protest and demand freedom and human rights, instead of supporting the imprisonment of those that have stood up for the better of the people of China, the very people that has pushed for the development of China's society. Shows the total ignorance instilled within China's society by leaders.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Thanks for the link I read the article and China is clearly and undeniably the aggressor.

China can't be the aggressor since Japan has given up its claim to those islands according to the whole series of WWII peace treaties/agreements such as:

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) :

"The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we (US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

San Francisco Peace Treaty

Article 2 (c)

Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands...

Article 3

Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 deg north latitude (i.e. including the Ryukyu Islands but excluding the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands)...

And the origin of Article 3 of the San Francisco Peace Treaty can be traced back to the following agreement made between the US and China during the Cairo Conference:

"During a private dinner with the Chiangs on the evening of November 23, President Roosevelt asked Chiang China's intentions regarding the Ryukyu Islands. According to the memorandum written by the Chinese side (Roosevelt's special assistant Harry Hopkins was present but did not apparently take notes), "The President referred to the question of the Ryukyu Islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus." To this, Chiang reportedly replied that "China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organization (UN trusteeship for decolonization of conquered colonies that was established in 1945 and as described in the San Francisco Peace Treaty)""

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Sincerely wish and hope there won't be any resources (oil) at all underneath the ocean floor of this disputed Island... NOT A SINGLE DROP !!!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Guru29Nov. 26, 2013 - 04:32AM JST China can't be the aggressor since Japan has given up its claim to those islands according to the whole series of WWII peace treaties/agreements such as:

The PRC wasn't even a nation before or after the war, they weren't included in those talks and don't have a leg to stand on now.

You can't go back in time, no matter how much or how long you hold your breath.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Guru29Nov. 26, 2013 - 04:32AM JST "Thanks for the link I read the article and China is clearly and undeniably the aggressor. China can't be the aggressor since Japan has given up its claim to those islands according to the whole series of >WWII peace treaties/agreements such as:

Wrong. Japan has never given up he Senkakus because they were exempt by reason of being MINOR and never having been taken in war.

Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) : "The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of >Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku AND SUCH MINOR ISLANDS as we (US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

Oh look, China determined that.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@Tohka You said your parents were closed to be murdered. If your parents were married then, you are very old now. How did you know They were close to be murdered if they were not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The islands and the region in question are both Japanese and international in scope. The air is internatinoal and therefore China has no right at all to try to make claims about controlling it. They might as well ask for the right to control air space on the Moon. and just as silly.

Sorry but this discussion has continued to the point of absurdity too. The reality is clear whether people want to see and accept it or not, the world is overwhelmingly on the side of Japan on this issue and China better back off before it makes itself the laughingstock of the world any more than it already is.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Free Chinese people support Japan / USA. Enslaved Chinese indoctrinated by endless communist propaganda of course post ridiculous notions. Free Chinese refer to these communist shill as 带薪网评论员 (paid network commentators). Communists China needs an artificial external enemy to focus attention away from internal corruption. For goodness sake, you cannot even access The New York Times, Wikipedia, or Facebook in communist China. If anyone supports that system, be anxious and proud to call them your enemy.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

U.S. will move on this the moment the loans to finance it come in from China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The US have big balls the Chinese have checkered balls walked through your so called air space blowing smoke throwing up a C sign we rule

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think all the reporters (Reuters, NYT, CNN, etc) on this subject of air-defense-identification-zone should be sent back to school to refresh on professional journalism.

They all have missed a key point in this dispute.

It is not because China ESTABLISHED this identification-zone over international air space… More than 20 countries (started by US) ESTABLISHED them decades ago. Additionally, US has mobile identification-zones around its naval carriers.

It is not because China UNILATERALLY established this identification-zone … all countries (more than 20) did their identification-zones “UNILATERALLY”.

It is not because this Chinese identification-zone OVERLAPS with that of Japan, Korea, Taiwan… Japanese identification-zone OVERLAPS with that of Korea and Taiwan (against their protests).

It is not because this Chinese identification-zone requires IDENTIFICATION AND LOCATION INFORMATION before the plane enters it… All identification-zones have this requirement.

The problem is that China identification-zone requires “flight plans beforehand for even just passing-through”… that is a new requirement that does not exist in the previous ADIZ identification-zones from the other countries. So the “flight plan for passing through” should be the bone of contention or criticism… because all the other arguments have no moral and logic ground to stand on!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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