S Korea warns of security impact if dropped from Japan's easy-trade list

Tokyo is expected to give cabinet approval for the removal of South Korea from its so-called "white list" as early as Friday. Kang said she urged Kono to stop the process or it would force Seoul to craft countermeasures.

Countermeasures huh?

In this case, meaning the South Korean government escalate anti-Japanese sentiment and furor throughout Seoul and the rest of South Korea, to include burning of hinomaru flags/Abe effigies, posters calling for Japan to apologize and compensate comfort women. destruction of Japanese products and businesses, and violent clashes with riot police.

And the ignorant masses throughout the world see that nonsense and think, "why can't Japan just apologize and compensate comfort women/colonial victims, see how hateful and historical deniers all Japanese are?"

Pure comedy folks.

Grow up!

'Seoul would have to review bilateral security cooperation.

Good luck with that. There was never much cooperation to begin with.

Ex_ResToday 02:55 pm JST

Countermeasures huh?

In this case, meaning the South Korean government escalate anti-Japanese sentiment and furor throughout Seoul and the rest of South Korea,

It seems to me that if anybody disagrees with Japan, or does not give Japan it's own way, then they are accused of being anti-Japanese.

Perhaps it is Japan that has become the bully.

Japan must realise that the era of playing sweet little victim is coming to an end.

wtf ? when did Japan play victim ?

And there is a Contract and Money was paid as they accepted that they did something wrong even though I guess they might never have said that they are sorry? (dunno)

It is like some guy stays in front of your house with fire and a fork in his hands and demands you pay him x ammount of money because your gandpa hit his grandpa in his face before you were born -.-V

Japan cannot afford for this to go up any further. They already have no friends except the US.

They have more friends than Korea.

Ah yes... again very typically Korean. Instead of actually putting forward any constructive effort to fix the faults that Japan claims SK has with regards to trust and the white list, SK resorts to threatening the bi-lateral security agreement. That's really going to make the whole thing better.

They really can't seem to get it through their heads... they aren't entitled to that White list, addressing the reasons that they are being removed, instead of wasting Japan's time again, and perhaps this whole thing would get resolved... At least it would put a pause on the whole process..

Korea is upset when Japan finally came up with an efficient strategy and applying it to them. They do not remember all the annoyances they gave to Japan.  Japanese people are fed up. Korea is still appealing their righteousness as always  with no reflections about themselves. Of course, Japan knows it will damage  Japanese businesses to a certain extent. Yet, 80% Japanese supporting what the government is doing to Korea.

A bilateral security agreement with a partner who unifies with North Korea at Olympics time....

"We've made clear to the Japanese side that for now we need to buy time for a diplomatic solution"

I do not think anything good comes out for Japan by reestablishing a relation with a country with an everlasting anti-Japanese national policy. The best thing is to distance itself from such a country. Removing the country from the white list is the first step. Hopefully Japanese companies see no benefits doing business with the country and start withdrawing from the country. Then close the diplomatic tie temporarily until the country remove such anti-Japanese policy. Stay away from the country as far away as possible.

The time has come. If SK gets rid of GSOMIA, let it go. Japan will never surrender by any threatening words.

Smith

This is not 1910 its 2019.

In present time not 100 years ago its S. Korea trying to seize and sell Japanese assets and being aggressive. Your going back in time to find an excuse for your aggression in 2019.

Like : "take me out of your "acquaintance" list on Facebook and add me to your "favorites" right now. I demand it""

Well, Heckleberry, I would have said it was South Korea's discretion to downgrade security cooperation, except that they are clearly the ones igniting this whole mess with their illegal actions and refusal to correct them by hiding behind the "shield" of separation of powers.

Has Kono forgotten Japan’s cool biz campaign already?

There he is sitting stone-faced with his tie and jacket on.

Cool Biz Japan is a campaign in Japan. The are not in Japan

What illegal actions are you referring too? Check out the below article concerning Japanese parts used by North Korea for their military. Japan has yet to show the world any proof that South Korea allowed for chemicals exported from Japan into NK.

The article just show that Japan is consistent in its concern of Japanese products used in North Korea.

Although the unnamed Japanese manufacturer said it had “no records of sale” to the country after June 12, 2009, the panel notes that the systems displayed aboard the missile boats were “off-the-shelf products.” They are widely used around the world in the fishing and leisure craft markets, it adds.

As the items cannot be traced without a serial number, the panel cautions countries to remain on guard when exporting any maritime electronics, including radars, sonar systems and compasses.

The above from the article does not in any way show that Japan approves of such actions.

That Res guy describes perfectly S. Koreas victimhood mentality.

I'm a victim of Japan, Japanese bad in the past.

No apology for us victims.

Build statues to victim comfort women.

Compesation for us victims.

Korea is the definition of victim mentality your just flipping the scrip and saying Japan.

This trouble was not as upfront as when Moon took over the helm for SK. However what most don't realize are the ties between Moon and XI. In addition China is pressing hard to break the SK and Japan relationship for years. In every chess game there is a winner and loser, sometimes a draw but rare.

South Korea warned on Thursday that security cooperation with Japan might be hurt if it removes South Korea from its list of countries that face minimum trade restrictions

SK has already hurt security cooperation with Japan. They still don't get it that they need to take actions to regain Japan's trust. Being on Japan's Whitelist is a privilege, not a right. This is never going to get resolved as long as SK continue to take an adversarial position towards Japan and threatening counter actions, rather than focusing on the reasons for Japan's mistrust and correcting them.

Youkai

wtf ? when did Japan play victim ?

Ex_Res, and others, just works off a script of well worn memes.

Good Germany, Bad Abe, wartime prostitution, Japan the bully, Japan playing the victim card, Japan no apologies, Japan not sincere enough, Yasukuni war crinimals, etc etc.

We should document them and list them like the well known list of logical fallacies, in order for people to be able to filter them out.

In this case, they are doing so to pre-empt a simple, that Japanese people and Japanese companies, that had absolutely nothing to do with past are being economically attacked and victimized, and the Japanese "brand" deliberate damaged by these shakedowns.

This whole mess is because Japan is retaliating against South Korea because of the court's decision against Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. The plaintiffs that sued for their wartime forced labor are alive. Are those who were forced into labor or sex that are alive today supposed to accept what happened to them?

I actually agree that's the actual reason. And YES that's basically what should happen. Once the treaty is signed, this affair is done as far as Japanese liability (in practical terms - I don't want to get into that whole claim rights vs diplomatic protection again) is concerned.

If they think the South Korean government erred in "signing away" their rights, they can sue the South Korean government and the court may give them money from the South Korean budget.

Let it go, let it go...

Thing has done, just move on.

SK has already hurt security cooperation with Japan. They still don't get it that they need to take actions to regain Japan's trust. Being on Japan's Whitelist is a privilege, not a right. This is never going to get resolved as long as SK continue to take an adversarial position towards Japan and threatening counter actions, rather than focusing on the reasons for Japan's mistrust and correcting them.

Absolutely, but unfortunately the South Korean government and their rabid anti-Japan fan base will never see it that way. When all else fails, conveniently trot out the "Japan never apologized/compensated comfort women/colonial victims" statements to rally world opinion against Japan.

This is why you see South Korean students holding ridiculous protest signs calling on Japan to apologize and compensate comfort women, that has nothing to do with the trade issue. Emotions over substance, do what it takes to shame and discredit Japan using the past.

And sad to say, this misinformation campaign by the South Korean government often works around the world, full of people who have little interest in finding out the details of the very legitimate concerns Japan has over South Korean imports. The only things these clueless people see are references to comfort women and colonial actions, and immediately turn against Japan.

Ridiculous.

"First, Korea didn't pay for THAAD deployment, other than providing the land. Secondly, Korea is building its own missile defense system, a triple layer system unlike Japan's single layer Aegis Ashore. Korea had the fortune of looting Russia's missile technology in the 1990s and became self-reliant in terms of ballistic, cruise and SAM missiles."

Regardless, Japan will get its THAAD; and they will be able to pay for it.

Korea has a more precarious proximity to danger than Japan ever will; good luck on their 3 tier missile defence.

Japan will have whatever Japan feels they need to have.

Even if it's a tier 1 THAAD, PAC-3, new destroyers Maya and Haguro (with a new advanced concept already on the pipe=line) , new advanced Soryu subs, anything they want they'll get.

And not from Korea, as they have none themselves.

Ditto Koreans going back in history and penalising Japanese business of 75 years ago. That makes it 1-1.

I guarantee that all the slobs out in the streets protesting are totally unsuccessful losers with no direction in life, occupying such a low rung on the ladder as not to be in anyway affected by international trade agreements to begin with.

Just sayin'.

Samit BasuToday 10:00 pm JST

The next time North Korean ballistic missile falls near(or worse yet flies over) Japan,

Worry about yourselves, Japan has it covered with the eye in the sky.

You should be more worried about SK's economy crashing down on itself without Japan's interventions.

Too bad SK for crying over spilled milk.

SK can only blame herself. LoL

Don't really matter.

Let SK bask in the sun till the end of the year and then ask they say, although I don't believe their economy will last that long.

Not international security, only Japan's security.

Oh really. It's quite a bit short sighted to think that something that would affect Japan's intelligence gathering capability wouldn't have a cascading effect on it's allies.

Especially with how important you claim GSOMIA is to Japan.

Well, it is Abe san who claimed this export control was security related.

The reasoning behind it doesn't change the fact that it is a trade issue, first and foremost. But play word games all you like.

"As Japan cited security reasons for its trade restrictions, I said we will have no option but to review the various frameworks of security cooperation with Japan," Kang told reporters, when asked whether South Korea would keep the GSOMIA if it was dropped from the Japanese list.

This makes sense. NOT!!

It simply goes to show that Koreans are lax on security issues which supports Japan's position.

In regards to GSOMIA importance to Japan, look no further than the 2 firings from NK on July 25th.

http://www.chosunonline.com/site/data/html_dir/2019/07/27/2019072780007.html

「2発とも600キロ」　また修正発表した合参…GSOMIAで日本から情報提供

"Both missiles traveled 600 km" Another correction by Joint chiefs of staff. Information provided by GSOMIA from Japan.

Then Japan lied to the world, that the reason why Japan imposed the export restriction was due to "security matters", not economic retaliations unrelated to national security.

Sigh... What don't you understand about the difference between the reason and the effect? The reason is because SK can't keep a lid on their own security. The effect is export restrictions. Export = trade. Get it now?

Japan cannot share with third country what it receives via the GSOMIA. So it doesn't matter if Japan gets the military intelligence or not, it cannot be shared with third country, including the US. But the US is not affected since it already has gotten that intelligence from ROK in real time via a separate GSOMIA.

Once again, if GSOMIA really is that important, it will effect Japan's readiness in a crisis, which will have a negative affect on their allies, whether you like it or not. I know you want to claim that South Korea is only hurting Japan, but it has much wider implications which will eventually turn their other allies against them. South Korea is playing a dangerous game of tit for tat.

Look, I know Korea can do no wrong in your eyes, but all of this is really just common sense.

"must switch to THAAD at five times the cost"

So?

If even Korea can afford THAAD, where did you get the idea Japan cannot?!

In present time not 100 years ago its S. Korea trying to seize and sell Japanese assets and being aggressive. Your going back in time to find an excuse for your aggression in 2019.

Maybe this goes back to 1592-1598. Who knows.

I don't hear you guys getting up at the Hiroshima ceremonies and spouting this nonsense. B-b-b-b--bb-b-b-b-b-ut that must be different, right?

This is comparison is complete nonsense. I mean, maybe you noticed that Japan doesn't still hate America for dropping the atom bombs or indoctrinate their citizens to hate America for what we did 70 years ago. I've visited Hiroshima and didn't see mass protests and boycotts of American products. Unlike Korea that has non-stop anger and hatred toward Japan for things that happened just as long ago and longer. Japan has moved on and it's shows.

Now, South Korea is dumb enough to threaten a move that will effect international security in retaliation for something that is only effecting trade. Talk about childish and short sighted.

Basu take a break.

You care more about GSOMIA than any of us do.

Korea left before, join again, left again it's nothing new.

We don't care if you stay or go. Breaking the 1965 aggrement, 2015 comfort women, seizing Japanese assets and trying to sell them is what we care about.

ASEAN countries, Taiwan who are friendlier towards Japan all get normal treatment. And we are just fine. Just think about it, South Korea enjoys the preferential treatment since 2004 despite having negative view just demoted to be just normal like the rest of us.

She hates him, lol can't meet her gaze.

If S Korea threatens security being impacted, guess what? It will also hurt you, too.

We've made clear to the Japanese side that for now we need to buy time for a diplomatic solution," the South Korean foreign ministry official told reporters after the meeting with Kono.(

Oh now they want a diplomatic solution. Kono looks like he is bored to death dealing with this...

Japan should warn S Korea of the security impacts if Japanese companies are sued in Korea for issues completely addressed already.

Every country has some history with their neighbors that isn't flattering. Wise countries move passed it. Germany and France actually share some of their embassy buildings today even with the WW-1/2 histories.

Lol. another Japanese who does not even know who tore up the Japan Korea treaty 1904. Hypocrites!

Heh, nice deflection from answering the question of how anyone could ever negotiate with Korea in good faith again.

Japan has shown within the last decade they want to resolve this issue and negotiated in good faith. Korea has shown in the past decade they don’t want to resolve this issue nor negotiate in good faith.

You’re whining about actions from 100 years ago - the Meiji Jidai. You may as well whine about something one of my African ancestors did to one of your African ancestors.

Smithinjapan

And Japan ought to remember who was number 2 in bailing them out during the last major quake. You're comparing once instance and a few bullets to 30 years of colonisation, rape, and murder. Well done.

And this was proven to be a lie. S.Korea wasn’t even in the top 15 donors.

Another propaganda by S.Korea.

A Japanese government source said that Tokyo's stance was to try to keep the trade and history dispute separate from security matters, including the renewal of the GSOMIA.

Except that the "security matters" is the stated rationale for removing SK from the white list in the first place.

If Japan cannot at this time, have SK on its list of favored trading partners, perhaps haps they can work out a timeline for regaining favored status.

I am simply trying to educate you on the national security implications of Abe san's economic retaliation, because nobody here seem to understand except for Japanese MoD officials who are begging for the preservation of the GSOMIA.

No, you're trying to detract from the fact that this whole mess is the result of your country's inept leadership, and their failure at international relations in resolving this issue, by redirecting attention to what you think will pressure the Japanese into negotiating in good faith again with your country.

The problem is, if they do that, how do they know you guys won't just negotiate something and then afterwards shoot it down again?

That's the problem with agreeing to a "final and irreversible" agreement, then deciding that actually you're not only going to reverse it, but that it's not final at all. When you do that, it removes any motivation for anyone to negotiate with you in good faith again. You're a hostile negotiator.

And now you have all these sheep who keep telling their neighbor to move on when it's ingrained in their DNA to be wary of the sheep.

That's right, history was never the sheep's forte.

It's funny you mention sheep when South Korea are the perfect example of following their political sheepdogs in their blind hatred of Japan because they are told to.

It's a very unfortunate situation but the way Korean government and how many of its population are certainly acting (setting oneself ablaze, cutting their fingers off, burning Japanese flags, spouting untruths and hate about Japan to the world, etc.) are proving the general conception that many Koreans are indeed irrational, overly emotional, stubborn, unforgiving and hard to deal with in a calm and rational manner. This reputation has been around even before the war according to the old-timers and in fact many of my Chinese friends who come from Northern China near the North Korean border where many ethnic Koreans live seem to agree with their Japanese counterparts about our mutual Korean brethren and certainly don't look at them any more fondly than the Japanese population. Having lived in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots and seeing first hand how the immigrant Korean population also unfairly generalized and prejudiced the black and latino populations and certainly had bad blood between them, it is certainly rich of them to continue bashing and hating on the Japanese for everything and anything, forever and ever... Japan is now aware over the last several decades is that constant apologizing and placating the Koreans only emboldens them to ask for more unreasonable requests...and can never keep their end of their commitment or international treaty.

Thus: (1) Koreans (North and South) in general hate Japan and always will...2) they will never truly want friendly relations based on mutual trust and civility. (they only want to see Japan crumble into the sea.) So, it's time now to take a more direct and aggressive approach to deal with their immature leaders and treat them the way they treat us... Seriously, the way South Korea is acting only vindicates Japanese nationalists that they were right all along to arm back up, even potentially nuke-up as well. Thank you, Korea for a great job to turn the populace to accelerate a more independent and united Japan that may quickly dump the pacifist constitution and re-arm to become a more powerful force together with the U.S. to keep Russian, Chinese, and NorthKorean aggressive ambitions in check!

People are literally saying, "It happened a long time ago. Let it go." Well, so did the atomic bombings and other atrocities, but you guys say "That's different!" It isn't -- these things should NOT be forgotten or swept under the rug. Period.

Dude, you are so confused. NO ONE is saying that South Korea should forget their past. Just like Japan shouldn't and the United States shouldn't.

'Letting go' does not mean forgetting. It means they need to move on and stop feeling sorry for themselves. Stop playing the victim that they haven't been for 70 years. Show me where anyone said South Korea needs to forget their history.

Do you hear Japan crying to the world about how they were nuked in 1945 and we should feel sorry for them and hate the United States? Nope. But you can visit the A-bomb museums at any time if you want to learn about the horrible things that happened. Because Japan is no longer a victim. Visit the Pearl Harbor memorial. Visit the holocaust museums. Don't forget. But stop expecting pity from the world because the time for that is long past.

South Korea needs to open its collective eyes and see how the rest of the world deals with its tragedies. Maybe they could learn a thing or two.

"It's funny you mention sheep when South Korea are the perfect example of following their political sheepdogs in their blind hatred of Japan because they are told to."

Well, in that respect Japan and SK are exactly the same.

Once again, how many Japanese are setting themselves on fire or cutting their fingers off to protest South Korea's threat of cancelling intelligence sharing? How many country wide Korean goods boycotts are going on in Japan? Yeah, that's what I thought. They are far from the same.

In any case, first thing SK should do if Japan carries this out is to put some missile batteries on Dokdo, after cutting all sharing of military intelligence. It would only be for defense purposes, of course, but it would also show, as did Russia show the other day, who the islands truly belong to.

Yeah, that would be really smart for Korea to reinforce the idea they really are the over-emotional immature nation that continues to escalate the tension and threatens regional stability that the world is starting to see them as. That would be a great idea.

With all this misinformation, where do I start...

The reason is because SK can't keep a lid on their own security. The effect is export restrictions. 

1.How ironic North Korea got most of material it needed from Japanese exporters, none from the ROK

That's odd since SK admits to security violations...

2.So this is indeed a "security" issue according to you. But you said earlier  

The reasoning behind it doesn't change the fact that it is a trade issue, first and foremost.

Will you make up your mind? Is it a security issue or a trade issue?

If it is a "security" issue, then why beg for a military secrets exchange pact with an untrustworthy country?

Once again, if GSOMIA really is that important, it will effect Japan's readiness in a crisis, which will have a negative affect on their allies

I've already explained the difference between cause and effect to you. I'm not going to do it again if you chose to ignore it.

It's "Ally", not "Allies". Japan has just one ally, the US.

This is just so factually wrong, I don't even need to address it.

The US gets its intelligence from Korea in real time, so the US security interest is not affected.

You really don't understand how things work in the real world. Like you were kind enough to point out, the US is Japan's ally. If Japan's readiness is affected, the US has to take up the slack. It's part of this thing you may have heard of, the mutual security agreement? Yeah that thing. Korea screwing with Japan affects the US. Keep your head in the sand and be willfully ignorant, but reality is reality.

I know you want to claim that South Korea is only hurting Japan

It's not a claim, but a fact. Let's say a nuclear ballistic missile is heading toward the Tokyo, the USFJ can see it coming thanks to the radar feed from Korea and all US personnels are running toward nuclear bunker, while SDF members are wondering why Americans are running. SDF personnel stops an American personnel and ask why he was in a hurry, the American tells the Japanese SDF personnel that a North Korean missile was is coming to Tokyo. The Japanese SDF personnel ask where, the American replies he can't tell because that's a secret and he isn't allowed to diverge that information to an unauthorized Third Country personnel.

If you really believe that this is remotely how it would happen (oh who am I kidding, it probably is what you believe) then you are completely out of touch with how the world actually functions. What you just typed is a complete farce.

@oyatoi Today 10:59 am JST

Only someone who has no real understanding of the depth of negative feeling harbored by Koreans toward the Japanese for things done to them during and before the 1910-1945 occupation of their country could say something look this. 

Let me put it this way. Feelings are no justification to violate treaties and inflict economic damage. Why do you insist on a pro-Korean exception? Maybe it is just cleaner, better, and future-oriented for a deal to just be a deal, no exceptions.

Besides, I suspect at least half of that "negative feeling" to be self-generated anyway.

On his 1970 visit to Warsaw, the German Chancellor Willy Brandt symbolically got down on his hands and knees, dogeza style to kiss the ground.

Are you going to remind me of the payouts that Germany is still making too? Because it shows people the weakness of this scheme. It doesn't even stop the payouts.

@smithinjapanToday 04:55 pm JST

Well, so did the atomic bombings and other atrocities, but you guys say "That's different!" It isn't -- these things should NOT be forgotten or swept under the rug

Tell you what. I'll leave it in your discretion to decide whether something should or should not be remembered. You have freedom of conscience and freedom of speech. If you want to celebrate/mourn any event once a year, sure go ahead.

However, it is extremist to expect to get any more concessions at the end of a treaty, and the attempt to single-handedly rob should only be denounced. If you do get any concessions, learn and see them as ex gratia from the point a settlement was made, and don't be disappointed or mourn or hate if you don't get it.

The irony of wanting to have easy access to your precious/sensitive material without having to fill up paperwork (which China, India and Taiwan are doing just now with no complaint) and yet constantly bashing and hating and not fullfiling the agreement. Of course Japan would say no more close friend for you!

S.Korea should remember that during a UN mission, it was Japanese soldiers who saved S.Korean soldiers when they ran out of bullets. The Japanese side provided the S.Korean side with ammunition apparently because both sides used the same type of bullets.

Every country has some history with their neighbors that isn't flattering. Wise countries move passed it.

That's the thing, the old guard in Japan will never let it pass..

SK finally admitted that their actions to date against Japan may involve security issues.

But then it was SK that circumvented the "security" issues and promises they agreed to and signed that they themselves "broke", selling critical security items to others that were not "cleared" to get them to begion with, forcing this limited "embargo" of sorts.

When one point a finger at another, they forget that three always points back at them. And the most impoirtant thumb always points elsewhere.

As mentioned, SK already cast its die and they are not willing to take responsibilities for their actions.

@oyatoi Today 10:13 pm JST

As the colonizing power, it has always been incumbent upon Japan to show contrition and remorse, not the other way around.

You are not going to substantiate this statement?

Hypothetically, let’s imagine things in reverse; a strong Korea that dominated and imposed itself on a weak Japan for 35 years during which it subjected Japan to identical depredations to those your forebears practiced on Koreans.

I'll like to think that first I will be able to remember the nice things they did, not just the depredations which I may not even have experienced. If I have to eat barley (a common complaint among Koreans), I'll also remember that they built and arranged staffing for the school I go to, that before them my country's literacy rate was maybe 10%. There is also a university now. And my parents were the ones who sold my sister to god knows where in the Imperial organization - she was not abducted.

Second, I would at least like to think I will understand a deal is a deal. That concept underlies society and is there way before human rights or any other such niceties. I will also realize that it is understandable if individuals on the opposing side don't believe my sorry tale of woe. They didn't see it and have no particular reason to believe me. I will also realize if my sorry tale of woe is accompanied by a demand for money or other compensation, especially after the deal is struck, I will now have a motive to lie and my credibility will drop.

Finally, I pray that whatever government follows them will have an educational policy such that I will be free to take the above decision. I don't wish my government quietly deprives me of my actual right to take this decision by indoctrinating me at an overly tender age. And if these sentiments actually survive, I hope I will be free to express them, without being mobbed by my "patriotic" neighbors or worse having defamation filed against me as a criminal charge.

I do have at least a little basis to say all of this. I am a Hong Konger. Remember what's north of us. Despite this, while I am wary of the "Central Authorities", I don't hate them.

My most usual reaction at their latest act is a sad snicker at their blunder ... again, not an unthinking rage, though I do think a lot of pro-Beijing and Beijing officials look ugly in the photos I've seen of them that might be the photographer. I even engage Wumao to debate them on the merits, and I'll like to think I am at least a bit less of a broken record than say Yaponezy or SK.

SK needs to learn to listen when someone else is talking. And learn that over reacting can hurt you and make you look “not so smart”.

The age old plaint of all unrepentant imperialists and supporters of misunderstood dictatorial regimes, that the ends always justifies the means

First, I did not say anything about Ends and Means, and second, even if I did say one end justified one means it does not mean a blanket acceptance, does it.

that the good that was done outweighs the negatives and excuses the excesses.

It may or may not, it depends on the facts. However, between School+Barley vs No School+Rice, I think most people would reasonably think the former is the superior combination, especially since you sold the rice to get money.

The very same arguments Beijing uses to justify what it is doing there were not entirely dissimilar to those used to justify Japan’s 35 year duration iron-fisted control of the Korean Peninsula. You need to get with the program Kazuaki!

Here are some distinctions:

1) While our statistical GDP may have increased since 1997, it is not something that found any reflection in our lives. The improvements in my life since 1997 all came due to Western tech

In the 2000s, Internet got fast enough I can download fansubs and I got a credit card so I can access mail order.

In the 2010s, tablet technology became ubiquitous so I can take more reading material with me on the move. Oh and I think Amazon (American company) is faster to ship my orders in the 2010s. Internet was also faster, but the jump from downloading an episode in minutes instead of hours is not as important as the jump to being able to DL it at all. Crunchyroll doesn't even really work in Hong Kong...

That's all the improvement in my life these past 20 years, no thanks to the Mainland. I live where I did in the 2000s, and psychologically I definitely feel poorer in the 2010s than the 2000s. I'm careful about using money (or claiming it) when I took a more cavalier approach in the 2000s.

You guys got schools and trains in the annexation era. In other words, you guys got a manifest improvement in economic right terms, similar to the manifest improvements the Chinese saw in their land. We never saw it. Our manifest improvements were in the late British colonial era.

2) You guys were doing nowhere near as well in 1909 (or in 1894) as we were in 1996. In either absolute terms or relative to the then World State of the Art.

From what my American friend mentioned from his experiences living in japan and dealing with the majority of the people there, especially in tokyo, he was clearly treated as a POW there.

Take that with a grain of salt. The people who do the least to integrate often talk like they know the most, and were treated the worst. Talk to some people have successful at living in Japan - we have almost all spent some effort to integrate, and generally have entirely different experiences than your friend.

Nice necktie Mr. Kono is wearing.

You need to remember at all times that the impetus for the colonization of Korea was Japanese self interest. It was at the behest of this imperative that Japan became the imperial overlord of a foreign country and made its people subject to Japanese edicts. That Japanese capital and organizational innovations played an important role in laying the groundwork for the modernization of the country is not disputed. In the same way that Japan itself had profited from Western encroachment and diffusion of technology, so too did Korea. But always remember, these gifts had strings attached and were entirely at the behest of the subjugating power. A purely benign occupation would never have sown the seeds of bitterness and hatred which Japan has reaped ever since the occupier’s zeal was tempered by American and Allied fire and steel.

Japan is no different from other imperialist powers that sought to bolster their power and security by taking advantage of the weakness of others. Apologists and those seeking to absolve Japan will always shy away from the distinction that benefits accrued incidentally by Korea are separate from the enrichment of Japan that was the primary reason for Japan being there in the first place. These true believers in the myth of Japan as selfless promoter of Korean development, probably also zealous adherents of the WW2 Japan as victim narrative, will never voluntarily accept that their narrative is fatally flawed by an inherent incompatibility between their aim of exonerating Japan and assuaging it’s guilt through recourse to selective truth that insults the dignity of the nation by preventing it from making amends for the festering wounds stemming from the colonial enterprise.

As for your claim that Korea would have been better off had Japan been left in a position to continue its charitable good work on the peninsula, the less said the better.

From what my American friend mentioned from his experiences living in japan and dealing with the majority of the people there, especially in tokyo, he was clearly treated as a POW there. His ignorance was somewhat bliss at first, but gradually realized after scraping the surface of cool gadgets and technical conveniences and kawaii faces, that he jumped out of the fire pan and into the fire. they killed his child and it was horrible how they did him. But clearly, based on history as well, it is not a country for humanitarian rights and global security and peace. C'mon,.. look at the dark anime, pedophilia, and other sick, dark, and twisted things there. something is not right. You do not even have to be religious, just someone who acknowledges light and goodness..

Talk to some people have successful at living in Japan - we have almost all spent some effort to integrate, and generally have entirely different experiences than your friend.

From what it seems, they do not let some have the opportunity to 'integrate'. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

They seem to have a type of mental complex when it comes to something or someone being original or being better than them. If they can't duplicate it, it angers them somehow. Seriously. They like things that they can copy or imitate to perfection and later on make better. Or,.. they much prefer the other party copy or imitate them, kind of like what they told the Koreans to do back in the day. They told them to speak japanese, study shinto, but if they ask you if you are japanese, say no...what the hell is that??

I think most if the successful gaijin there are kind of cookie cut to their mold, therefore, have access to the never never land amusement park. So, i guess in a way, not fitting in there is maybe a good thing. Especially if you are not ok with dark sick and demented pedophila perversions. I would think that place to be a haven for sick individuals who believe in no higher power spiritual reverance.

@Kazuaki Shimazaki: “First, I did not say anything about Ends and Means, and second, even if I did say one end justified one means it does not mean a blanket acceptance, does it.”

With the greatest respect, I’m afraid your long-winded, bereft of substance, apologia for Japan’s imperialist subjugation of Korea completely fails. Having prefaced your screed with an outright declaration that the ends does not justify the means, the rest of your diatribe totally contradicts that. Using your own personal example as somebody who has benefitted from Western technology to imply that Korean outrage is unjustified and that any Korean who isn’t grateful for the blessings of Japanese (surely you mean Western?) technology is a total ingrate is surely doubling down on ends justifies the means.

Just as I suspected, you made no attempt to address the substance of the charge I leveled against you, that consistency demands you be on board with Beijing’s reining in of Hong Kong, Tibet, and the restive Uighurs, all of whom pose a splittist threat to China’s screw the Gweilos One Belt One Road Manifest Destiny.

One wonders indeed which side of the fence you would have been when, in early 1942, Japanese descended upon Hong Kong and subjected your countrymen to a harsh three year regimen of uninterrupted cruelty. You write like someone who might benefit from knowing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_Hong_Kong

Wesley: "S.Korea should remember that during a UN mission, it was Japanese soldiers who saved S.Korean soldiers when they ran out of bullets. The Japanese side provided the S.Korean side with ammunition apparently because both sides used the same type of bullets."

And Japan ought to remember who was number 2 in bailing them out during the last major quake. You're comparing once instance and a few bullets to 30 years of colonisation, rape, and murder. Well done.

Kazuaki Shimazaki: “I'll like to think that first I will be able to remember the nice things they did, not just the depredations which I may not even have experienced. If I have to eat barley.......I'll also remember that they built and arranged staffing for the school I go to, that before them my country's literacy rate was maybe 10%. There is also a university now. And my parents were the ones who sold my sister to god knows where in the Imperial organization - she was not abducted.”

The age old plaint of all unrepentant imperialists and supporters of misunderstood dictatorial regimes, that the ends always justifies the means, that the good that was done outweighs the negatives and excuses the excesses. It’s a dangerously facile assumption that it does and I’m surprised to hear that, in the case of Japan’s imperial adventure, you’ve swallowed the Kool Aid and see no contradiction at all between that and your stated disappointment with the Motherland extending its tentacles over your Hong Kong. The very same arguments Beijing uses to justify what it is doing there were not entirely dissimilar to those used to justify Japan’s 35 year duration iron-fisted control of the Korean Peninsula. You need to get with the program Kazuaki! (Your Chinese name Japanized?) China needs all its people to be on board with its version of Manifest Destiny. I’m sure once you realise you’ve been a bit of a laggard, you’ll make up for lost time and get right behind more re-education camps for ungrateful Uighurs and the push to bring all Tibetans to heel. After all, it’s all for their own good, isn’t it! Well, isn’t it?

how do they know you guys won't just negotiate something and then afterwards shoot it down again?

Lol. another Japanese who does not even know who tore up the Japan Korea treaty 1904. Hypocrites!

Oh thats right, I forgot. 'History' textbooks are fictional books.

“That's the problem with agreeing to a "final and irreversible" agreement, then deciding that actually you're not only going to reverse it, but that it's not final at all. When you do that, it removes any motivation for anyone to negotiate with you in good faith again. You're a hostile negotiator.”

Only someone who has no real understanding of the depth of negative feeling harbored by Koreans toward the Japanese for things done to them during and before the 1910-1945 occupation of their country could say something look this. Their default assumption is that Agreements are sacrosanct, otherwise firms would not do business knowing that the goalposts might one day be shifted on them. That may well be true nine times out of ten, when the situation is normal and you’re not dealing with the accumulated baggage of centuries of animosity. If we assume that Japan was sincere in its desire to want to atone for its unsavory behavior on the peninsula during colonial rule, it is incumbent on it, as the aggressor, to demonstrate contrition and humility.

On his 1970 visit to Warsaw, the German Chancellor Willy Brandt symbolically got down on his hands and knees, dogeza style to kiss the ground. Only when he was safely out of office, and only much much later in 2015, did a Japanese deign to do likewise when former Japanese prime minister Hatoyama visiting Seodaemun Prison in Seoul knelt in front of a memorial stone as an expression of apology for Japanese war crimes in World War II.

While at the time, positive reactions may have been limited, his show of humility was a small but vital step in bridging the gaps World War II had left between Germany and Eastern Europe. In historical terms, Brandt gained much renown for this act, and it is thought to be one of the reasons he received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1971.

extanker: "This is comparison is complete nonsense."

People are literally saying, "It happened a long time ago. Let it go." Well, so did the atomic bombings and other atrocities, but you guys say "That's different!" It isn't -- these things should NOT be forgotten or swept under the rug. Period. There are enough politicians here saying "it is pure propaganda". Hell, even some posters on here, non-Japanese, lie through their teeth about the history, which will only get WORSE if we take on the attitude of "forget about it" with A, but "commemorate it" with B.

"It's funny you mention sheep when South Korea are the perfect example of following their political sheepdogs in their blind hatred of Japan because they are told to."

Well, in that respect Japan and SK are exactly the same.

In any case, first thing SK should do if Japan carries this out is to put some missile batteries on Dokdo, after cutting all sharing of military intelligence. It would only be for defense purposes, of course, but it would also show, as did Russia show the other day, who the islands truly belong to.

both behaving really childishly.  SK started all this though.

FAMILY! Always bickering and occasionally kicking the crap out of one another. C'mon guys...look around you, surrounded by VERY LARGE PREDATORS in case you haven't noticed. You guys are natural partners in terms of life style, inter-cultural comprehension, location...Hell, a strong Nihon-Joseon partnership could stand up against those predators and maybe even shed the parasite now infecting both of them. Instead, trivial jealousies and Nihonsei racism and arrogance cause this kind of STUPID and damaging to both countries behavior. And, if nothing else, this points up the risk of allowing the Japanese elite off their leash, Article 9, because clearly they are not ready to act like citizens of the world if they cannot even get along with their closest neighbor and closest relative amongst the world's Humans. And certainly not to say that the Koreans are helping, but their case comes with some pretty horrific gratuitously bestowed behaviors having been done to them by the Japanese over the centuries by the 1500 year virulent militarism that is Japanese history. And that history lies restless still in many Nihonjin no kokoro as we see manifested in Abe's psychopathic push to let Japan invade offshore again. Dan-dan. Article 9 is the first step. Next, "Oh, we're just gonna help these people. restore order to their country..." Having learned the way of 'altruistic domination by conscienceless force' from America (Plausible (minimally) Lies) and having much practice in history, the 'Abe Japan' strains at the leash, and the children of the Japan play on in innocent ignorance, unaware of the death which could roll over all of Nihon if the wrong choices are made now by unkind, selfish men whose only raison d'etre is Compulsive Acquisition and who care nothing for the innocents who would be dying for their disease. Settle this now, Children.

Two more launches today.

Brought to you by CNN, the trusty source that Japanese MoD officials will rely on for NK missile launch news after the GSOMIA is terminated.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/01/asia/north-korea-missile-launch-aug-1-intl/index.html

North Korea fires projectile in second launch of the week

Updated 4:09 PM ET, Thu August 1, 2019

North Korea has made its second projectile launch this week, a senior US official tells CNN.

Korea never broke the 1965 agreement. Individuals right to claim for damages were never included in the treaty.

Even the Japanese government internally admitted that over the past 40 years.

Even the 100 or so Japanese lawyers issued a joint statement saying they supported the decision by Korea's Supreme Court.

Japan: "We are removing South Korea from a whitelist for export of high tech raw materials, as we deem it to be a serious risk to national security, and we even have proof they are colluding with North Korea, and we hold fears it will result in weapons manufacture that may be used against us".

"Oh by the way South Korea, when are we holding our next joint military drill? We still good on our military pact right buddy?"

As I wrote before:

July 18  12:38 pm JST Posted in: Japan wants to keep military info pact with S Korea: Kono  See in context

While being unable to trust, sharing military info with S. Korea sounds oxymoronic.

*-3** ( +3 / -6 )*

@extanker

The reason is because SK can't keep a lid on their own security. The effect is export restrictions. 

1.How ironic North Korea got most of material it needed from Japanese exporters, none from the ROK

2.So this is indeed a "security" issue according to you. But you said earlier  

The reasoning behind it doesn't change the fact that it is a trade issue, first and foremost.

Will you make up your mind? Is it a security issue or a trade issue?

If it is a "security" issue, then why beg for a military secrets exchange pact with an untrustworthy country?

Once again, if GSOMIA really is that important, it will effect Japan's readiness in a crisis, which will have a negative affect on their allies

It's "Ally", not "Allies". Japan has just one ally, the US. The US gets its intelligence from Korea in real time, so the US security interest is not affected.

I know you want to claim that South Korea is only hurting Japan

It's not a claim, but a fact. Let's say a nuclear ballistic missile is heading toward the Tokyo, the USFJ can see it coming thanks to the radar feed from Korea and all US personnels are running toward nuclear bunker, while SDF members are wondering why Americans are running. SDF personnel stops an American personnel and ask why he was in a hurry, the American tells the Japanese SDF personnel that a North Korean missile was is coming to Tokyo. The Japanese SDF personnel ask where, the American replies he can't tell because that's a secret and he isn't allowed to diverge that information to an unauthorized Third Country personnel.

The Japanese are being very disingenuous when they accuse South Korea of laxness when it comes to technology transfer. If they want to play the blame game, they can start by placing some of it on themselves. Institutionalized racism has always condemned the Koreans to a life on the margins. In their inimitable can-do way however, the despised minority have been able to turn the tables on their hosts by accumulating vast wealth through pachinko, loan sharking and other activities. How much of this wealth has found its way to North Korea is anybody’s guess.

For all the people that are bashing on Korea here is some food for thought.

For those that insist that Korea should move on and put the atrocities committed by Japan in behind them do you ever consider that some of those victims are still alive? What about the forced laborers and comfort women that had children while they were slaves in Japan? Do those children that were starved and forced to speak Japanese have to forget, because many are still alive.

Is the Government of Japan the least bit apologetic? When was the past time Abe and other government officials went to visit Yasukuni? Do you think the world would be ok if Angela Merkel Chancellor of Germany would visit a Christian memorial dedicated to nazi war criminals?

Japan is bullying Korea and those that refuse to admit it need to open a history book.

For those that think Japan is going to hurt Koreas economy maybe, you are right in the short term, but Korea will overcome it. All the while Japan’s economy in the long run will suffer and continue to struggle through Abenomics. Japan’s national debt is roughly 253% of its GDP the highest in the world with an aging population, falling birthrate, and negative interest rates.

If you are interested in reading some more truth read the below article from the diplomat.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/japans-economic-sanctions-on-korea-part-of-a-phased-plan/

@Triring

Japan has it covered with the eye in the sky.

If that's the case, then why is Japanese MoD so obsessed with preserving that GSOMIA even after the export control?

If you search Twitter for "GSOMIA", then 99% of tweets comes from Japan. So the GSOMIA is a big deal in Japan while a nuisance in Korea.

http://www.donga.com/en/article/all/20190724/1798362/1/Ending-GSOMIA-is-not-an-option-Japanese-Defense-Minister-says

‘Ending GSOMIA is not an option,’ Japanese Defense Minister says

@OssanJapan

they still don't get it that they need to take actions to regain Japan's trust. 

Korea's action is to cut off Japan from its radar feed and to take Japan to the WTO, which will rule Japan violated WTO's unrestricted trade rules and award huge tariffs on Japanese product.

@Peeping_Tom

If even Korea can afford THAAD, where did you get the idea Japan cannot?!

First, Korea didn't pay for THAAD deployment, other than providing the land. Secondly, Korea is building its own missile defense system, a triple layer system unlike Japan's single layer Aegis Ashore. Korea had the fortune of looting Russia's missile technology in the 1990s and became self-reliant in terms of ballistic, cruise and SAM missiles.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/s-400-coming-to-seoul-how-south-korea-indirectly-acquires-cutting-edge-russian-air-defences

S-400 Coming to Seoul? How South Korea Indirectly Acquires Cutting Edge Russian Air Defences 

Second thing is that Korea is spending three times what Japan spends on weapons acquisition each year, this allowed Korea to fund own stealth fighters, own S-400 class SAM system, and own SLBM sub, while bankrupt Japan can afford none of that.

@AlexBecu

You care more about GSOMIA than any of us do.

I am simply trying to educate you on the national security implications of Abe san's economic retaliation, because nobody here seem to understand except for Japanese MoD officials who are begging for the preservation of the GSOMIA.

I understand the national security structures of Japan, and this is why I am sounding an alarm here.

Another reason the ROK termination of the GSOMIA is extra dangerous for Japan is that the latest rounds of NK ballistic missiles are shown to be performing complex maneuvers to evade interception. Instead of flying the normal parabolic trajectory typical of ballistic missiles, the NK missiles are diving first, then reignite the engine to recover and fly in a shallow horizontal angle and stay under 30 km altitude for the final 250 km.

With this maneuver, neither the Aegis Ashore nor the THAAD can intercept NK ballistic missiles as the NK missile is staying below the minimum interception altitude of both THAAD(60 km) and Aegis Ashore(120 km).

Without the Korean early warning, the NK ballistic missiles would appear to be popping out of nowhere just 200 km away from Japanese shore from Japanese SDF's perspective.

@extanker

Now, South Korea is dumb enough to threaten a move that will effect international security in retaliation

Not international security, only Japan's security.

something that is only effecting trade.

Well, it is Abe san who claimed this export control was security related.

@extanker

quite a bit short sighted to think that something that would affect Japan's intelligence gathering capability wouldn't have a cascading effect on it's allies.

Japan cannot share with third country what it receives via the GSOMIA. So it doesn't matter if Japan gets the military intelligence or not, it cannot be shared with third country, including the US. But the US is not affected since it already has gotten that intelligence from ROK in real time via a separate GSOMIA.

The reasoning behind it doesn't change the fact that it is a trade issue, first and foremost. But play word games all you like.

Then Japan lied to the world, that the reason why Japan imposed the export restriction was due to "security matters", not economic retaliations unrelated to national security.

Yet at the same time, Japan is claiming that the country that cannot be trusted with handling of material re-export CAN be trusted on handling of most secretive military intelligence.

Does Japanese logic make any sense to you?

Japan is warning Korea?

Whatever happened to the usual ‘urging’ that Japan’s government usually adopts?

If Japan’s warnings are ignored then what’s gonna happen?

An invasion just won’t work out-Japan has already been down that road!

Triring: "Too bad SK for crying over spilled milk."

Once again, you guys can NEVER again post on anything about Hiroshima, Nagasaki, or otherwise if you genuinely believe in your own posts. Never. Maybe we should forget about the Holocaust while we're at it, just to prove the point of how ridiculous the comments of "get over it", and "spilled milk", and "It's over", etc. are.

oldman_13: "And sad to say, this misinformation campaign by the South Korean government often works around the world,"

Says the incredibly misinformed.

And hey, guys, it's Japan and Kono in particular begging to be included in training exercises with the US and SK, not vice-versa. It's also Japan that asks to be excluded from sanctions on nation that import oil from Iran, while agreeing on said sanctions. It's Japan that tries to curry favor with Putin while saying they'll take a hard stance on the islands. It's Japan whose politicians say they will take a hard stance on NK and goes to talk to the victims of kidnapping every time an election is in the air, then switches topics the minute said election is over, etc., ad nauseam. What hypocrites!

Both sides need to take a step back and reevaluate what is truly important for their countries.

Has Kono forgotten Japan’s cool biz campaign already?

There he is sitting stone-faced with his tie and jacket on.

Surely, he could be (by example) showing South Korea how to save billions of yen!

What a wasted opportunity for détente!

The next time North Korean ballistic missile falls near(or worse yet flies over) Japan, Japanese defense officials get to learn about it from CNN breaking news.

And it’s more money for USA, since the Aegis Ashore cannot function without an early warning from Korea and must switch to THAAD at five times the cost, and six communities must surrender their land to SDF instead of two.

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

”I would have said it was South Korea's discretion to downgrade security cooperation, except that they are clearly the ones igniting this whole mess with their illegal actions and refusal to correct them by hiding behind the "shield" of separation of powers.”

What illegal actions are you referring too? Check out the below article concerning Japanese parts used by North Korea for their military. Japan has yet to show the world any proof that South Korea allowed for chemicals exported from Japan into NK.

This whole mess is because Japan is retaliating against South Korea because of the court's decision against Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. The plaintiffs that sued for their wartime forced labor are alive. Are those who were forced into labor or sex that are alive today supposed to accept what happened to them?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/02/12/national/japanese-radar-components-used-north-korean-navy-u-n-report/#.XUKNdZaRXYU

Wakarasen: “SK started all this though.”

You’re right. They should never have colonized Japan and raped... oh wait.

"A Japanese government source said that Tokyo's stance was to try to keep the trade and history dispute separate from security matters, including the renewal of the GSOMIA."

Once again, Japan wants it both ways. SK should cut any and all security sharing the SECOND they are dropped from Japan's list on trade. They cannot have it both ways, and they are going to learn that the hard way. And with SK's far superior military, and NK ratcheting up missile testing once again... well, Japan cannot afford for this to go up any further. They already have no friends except the US.

Countermeasures huh?

In this case, meaning the South Korean government escalate anti-Japanese sentiment and furor throughout Seoul and the rest of South Korea,

It seems to me that if anybody disagrees with Japan, or does not give Japan it's own way, then they are accused of being anti-Japanese.

Perhaps it is Japan that has become the bully.

Japan must realise that the era of playing sweet little victim is coming to an end.