A set of remote islands called Dokdo in Korean and Takeshima in Japanese Photo: REUTERS/The Blue House/Handout
politics

S Korean fighter jet patrols over islands disputed by Japan

70 Comments
By Joyce Lee

South Korean fighter jets conducted a patrol flight on Tuesday over islands at the centre of a bitter dispute with Japan, South Korean President Moon Jae-in said at an event marking the founding of the South Korean military.

South Korea showcased newly acquired F-35 stealth fighter jets to mark Armed Forces Day as Moon tried to allay concerns that his policy of engagement with North Korea would weaken the South's commitment to defense.

He said South Korean F-15K jets patrolled over the disputed islets called Dokdo in Korea and Takeshima in Japan, which are controlled by Seoul and claimed by both countries, a move that could inflame already strained ties between the two.

"Just a moment ago, the F-15K, the most powerful fighter-bomber in Northeast Asia, has returned from completing a patrol mission over our land Dokdo... without any problems," Moon said in an address to the military.

The defense ministry clarified two out of four jets that took part in the patrol flew over the islands.

On Friday, South Korean government officials had protested against Tokyo's annual defense review which made a reference to Japan owning the islands. South Korea's foreign ministry summoned a military official at the Japanese embassy in Seoul to demand an immediate retraction.

South Korea and Japan have been locked in a worsening diplomatic and trade row rooted in wartime history and disagreements over compensation for forced laborers during Japan’s 1910-1945 occupation of Korea.

After Japan tightened its curbs on exports of high-tech materials vital to South Korea's chip and display industries in July, both countries have removed each other from fast-track trade status.

South Korea will only consider renewing an intelligence-sharing pact with Japan it decided to terminate in August only when Japan's "unfair export control measures are resolved," South Korea's foreign ministry spokesman Kim In-chul told a news briefing on Tuesday.

In July, a Russian military aircraft twice violated airspace over the disputed islands and drew hundreds of warning shots from South Korean jets, South Korean officials said, during what Russia said was a long-range joint air patrol with China.

Japan, which said it also scrambled fighter aircraft at the time, lodged a complaint with both South Korea and Russia over the incident.

The islands had 28 South Korean residents as of Tuesday, according to South Korean police.

Moon marked Armed Forces Day at a ceremony at an airbase in the city of Daegu where four of the eight Lockheed Martin F-35A jets delivered this year were displayed. Forty of the aircraft are to be delivered by 2021.

He made no direction mention of Japan, or North Korea, in his address, but said today's security climate was highly unpredictable, requiring strength as well as innovation.

"As the recent drone attack in the Middle East region demonstrated to the world, the challenges that we will face will be entirely different from those of the past," he said.

North Korea has criticized the South's weapons procurements and its joint military drills with the U.S. military as undisguised preparations for war that are forcing it to develop new short-range missiles.

Moon has thrown his support behind dialogue to end the North's nuclear and ballistic missile programs, urging that working-level negotiations between the North and the United States be held soon. No new dates or locations have been set.

Analysts have said the F-35 stealth jets put North Korea's anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems in a vulnerable position.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2019.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

70 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

Like children squabbling over a toy.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

As no dogfight occurred, it seems Japan isn’t interested in defending Takeshima ...

-6 ( +11 / -17 )

I don't see what the problem is.

The Liancourt Rocks are undisputedly Korean territory and is a heavily visited tourist destination.

Unlike Japan's claims on the Diaoyu Islands, the Korean claim to the Liancourt Rocks is rock solid and can be proven with thousands of examples of Imperial Japan era maps and government documents.

Compare the Liancourt Rocks to the Diaoyu Islands, which legally belongs to the Republic of China, and Japan has banned all Japanese civilians from landing on the Diaoyu Islands because Japanese government knows its claim on the islands are weak.

-19 ( +13 / -32 )

What's ironic about the tension between Korea and Japan is that in a lot of ways, they're very similar cultures. Another irony of the situation is that they both share common enemies..they should both really grow up and recognize the need and benefits of them working together. Korea should let go of an atoned for past, and Japan should be more sensitive to the fact that there are still some raw feelings about it.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

*“Just a moment ago, the F-15K, the most powerful fighter-bomber in Northeast Asia, has returned from completing a patrol mission over our land Dokdo... without any problems," Moon said in an address to the military.*

If that can help Moon sleep better at night.

Owning the most powerful bomber in Northeast Asia Does Not make you the Most powerful country in Northeast Asia.

What power do you have when your economy depends mostly on Japan, the USA and China?

What power do you have that whenever N.K launches a missile you run to the USA, Japan and cry to China to tame that petulant child lil’Kim.

All those flights around Takeshima are only frightening those poor seagulls.

PS: You’re not getting your whitelist privilege back.

9 ( +22 / -13 )

@Hachidori

What power do you have when your economy depends mostly on Japan, the USA and China?

Korea recorded a record trade surplus in August, thanks to ongoing Japan boycott.

So the little Korea trades with Japan, the better off Korea is.

-15 ( +10 / -25 )

Rightful owners of Islands under International Law

1) Liancourt Rocks : Republic of Korea. It was never terra nullius hence Japanese declaration of incorporation in 1905 illegal. Heck, Shimane Prefecture made a capital punishment crime for its fishermen to go to the Liancourt Rocks during the middle of the 19th century because it was considered an illegal crossing into foreign territory.

2) Kurils Islands : They were Russian to begin with, Imperial Japanese took them after Russo-Japanese War, and was reverted back to the Soviet Union.

3) Diaoyu Islands : These are periphery islands of Taiwan that Japan took as spoils of the First Sino-Japanese War, and Japan was legally obligated return them to the Republic of China under the terms of Japan's surrender. The least damaging way Japan can resolve this problem is to return them to Taiwan instead of China.

-17 ( +13 / -30 )

Japan supporters won't like to hear it but the fact is that no Japanese has been able to set so much as a toenail on the islands for 65 years.

Shinzo-kun, his cronies and their supporters can jump up and down all day but this won't change in the lifetime of anybody posting here.

-10 ( +13 / -23 )

South Korea for some reason avoids the International Court of Justice.

17 ( +27 / -10 )

What power do you have when your economy depends mostly on Japan, the USA and China?

@Hachi - Japan's economy depends on China, USA and SK (with whom Japan has enjoyed huge trade surpluses). So Japan is powerless too, in your logic?

South Korea for some reason avoids the International Court of Justice.

@ken - and what, give legitimacy to Japan's claim? It's best to ignore a yapping dog, not engage with it.

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

2) Kurils Islands : They were Russian to begin with, Imperial Japanese took them after Russo-Japanese War, and was reverted back to the Soviet Unio

You forgot the most critical action Japan took regarding the Kurils: Japan gave up its sovereignty over the Kurils in the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

The island is disputed only to the Japanese, to the Koreans, there is no dispute. It is a Korean territory. The same way Senkaku Islands are disputed to the Chinese, but as far as the Japanese are concerned, there is no dispute. Nobody talks about dispute in Japan, they talk about China claiming a Japanese territory, the same way, nobody talks about dispute in Korea, they talk about Japan claiming Korean territory.

Dokdo island is administrated and controlled by Korea. It is a Korean territory, and nobody around the world thinks otherwise. Japan continuing to claim Dokdo and make it an issue that Koreans protect their own territory is only antagonizing Korea and worsening the relationships between the two countries. There is absolutely no chance in the world that Dokdo can ever be Japanese unless Japan tries to invade it and occupy it, which would instantly trigger a full fledged war.

The man-child dinosaurs running Japan think that, if they keep demanding something, eventually they will get it, the same way a child thinks if he keeps asking for a candy, he will get it. It's painfully obvious that they have no long term strategy or even understanding of what exactly are they hoping to achieve, let alone the brains to use diplomatic means to achieve it. Their refusal to accept the two islands Russia offered them is a good evidence of their incoherent foreign policy. Just repeating like a robot "we want all 4 islands", "we want takeshima" isn't going to get you anywhere. The reason their foreign policy is so inadequate is because nobody is actually in charge of their foreign policy, but that's a different topic.

-13 ( +12 / -25 )

Tissue ??.. lol!!..

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

The island is disputed only to the Japanese, to the Koreans, there is no dispute. It is a Korean territory. The same way Senkaku Islands are disputed to the Chinese, but as far as the Japanese are concerned, there is no dispute. Nobody talks about dispute in Japan, they talk about China claiming a Japanese territory, the same way, nobody talks about dispute in Korea, they talk about Japan claiming Korean territory.

@coffee - Well said.

Dokdo is to Korea what Senkaku is to Japan.

Japan resents Chinese claim over Senkaku, while doing the same thing to Dokdo.

You can't have it both ways Japan.

Either you give up the claim to Dokdo and continue with your Senkaku stance, or continue to claim Dokdo and stop complaining about China claiming Senkaku.

-12 ( +11 / -23 )

Once again South Korea shows its true aggressive nature.

We stand with you Japan.

10 ( +25 / -15 )

oldman_13Today 08:09 am JST

Once again South Korea shows its true aggressive nature.

We stand with you Japan.

How is flying jets over your own territory aggressive?

We stand with you Japan.

Who is this "we"? Who are you claiming to speak for?

-7 ( +15 / -22 )

Any neighbor Japan isn’t in dispute with on tiny pieces of land in the middle of nowhere?

They cannot all be wrong about the same thing at the same time.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

South Korea is making it very clear that their hypothetical enemy is Japan, not DPRK. At least South Korea is honest about it.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

as Moon tried to allay concerns that his policy of engagement with North Korea would weaken the South's commitment to defense.

He's doing this for political points, simple as that. It's popular in S. Korea to challenge Japan on the Liancourt Rocks.

9 ( +17 / -8 )

thems islands? look like island wanna-be's to me. better protect them with your life, NOT

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

It's popular in S. Korea to challenge Japan on the Liancourt Rocks.

@Serrano - Just as it is popular in Japan to continue laying claim on Dokdo, but I won't see you point that out..

-10 ( +9 / -19 )

Moon doing what all politicians do when they are stuck in a scandal and don't see a way out - deflect with a sure fire nationalist narrative - even if that narrative is not in your country's interest and actually harmful in the long run.

North Korea issues its usual invective against the south, Russia increases its nuclear bomber patrols that incur into sK airspace, and China's fishing fleets intrude into sK seas, yet all Moon can do is further provoke Japan - a country that it shares many more values with than the others mentioned.

All because his Justice Minister is under investigation and its not looking good.

And the north fired off more missiles this morning...

Start acting like a real leader President Moon - rather than a typical craven politician putting your own partisan interests before those of your country.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

Since the islands are not under military threat, sending fly-by patrols is a gratuitous waste of aviation fuel. Do Korean taxpayers really need this kind of ego gratification?

15 ( +22 / -7 )

Japan and SK disagreeing over these islands remind me of this video: https://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/animals-source/00000168-5db2-d3cc-a1e8-5dbff9bb0000 - two dung beetles. It isn't about the islands, it is about the lines across the sea which could be included as their economic zones.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Aggressive move by S. Korea yet again and the Korea supporters enjoy it.

Lets take this issue to the international Court and let them make a decision who is the legal owner of Takeshima.

S. Korea time and again has denied and refused to take this issue to a 3rd party or the international community. You keep nagging Japan how they should admit it's a Korean land yet you refuse anyone else to be involved in the matter.

Yet on the white list or trade curbs, you want the whole world, China, U.S., WTO, UN anyone and everyone should participate on those issues to pressure Japan to give special previlages status to S. Korea a Anti-Japan hating country for decades.

Takeshima was seized physically by South Korea in 1954, when Japan was still under complete demilitarization. That's a Fact Korea supporters.

10 ( +19 / -9 )

I would be nice if the politicians of this country could do something for the people of this country for once instead of all this hyped up pretend concern over islands that clearly don't belong to Japan. This is theater on both ends. Complete calculated distraction. Moon and Abe are probably laughing on the phone about it right now.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

It's their land, they have a right to fly over it. If Japan thinks the islands are theirs, let them fly by it and see what happens. No? They won't? Guess they are not Japan's islands.

-10 ( +9 / -19 )

If Japan thinks the islands are theirs, let them fly by it and see what happens. No? They won't? Guess they are not Japan's islands.

Or just maybe, Japan has avoided being the aggressor in all these disputes with South Korea in order to not further antagonize the situation.

Unlike South Korea, who loves to fan the flames to try to prove a point and end up looking like a cranky child.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

How many counties does Japan have territorial disputes with at this point? At least 4 that I can think of. This will happen with territories under dispute.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

@expat

How many counties does Japan have territorial disputes with at this point?

Really only one, the Diaoyu Islands with Taiwan/China. Japan should return them.

Liancourt Rocks and the Kurils aren't really in dispute, they are Korean and Russian respectively in the eyes of the world.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

@NCIS Reruns

Since the islands are not under military threat

They are under Japanese military threats.

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

Military drills and fighter jets (no it's not mere surveillance planes) flying over the disputed islands. What a thug country, no different from the North shooting missiles onto Japan's EEZ. Yes it is disputed islands. Otheriwise, such actions are nothing but disgusting and unnecessary provocation acts. Read [Anti-Japan tribalism] a best selling now in SK where Prof Lee Yong-Hoon clearly states there's nothing unfortunately SK owns so as to prove it is their own inherent territory to Int'l community and hence it would surely lose at ICJ if SK dares to challenge. Yes. it is disputed in SK, otherwise, their stupid civil groups wouldn't try entering Japan just to protest inside Japan only to be rejected at the airport to foolishly fly back home for nothing. Bunch of Idiots. For this stupid country, Japan is a potential enemy. Moon doesn't hide it any more just like Roh didn't. No question about that. And yet idiot anti-Japan tribal posters here keep spitting onto Japan enduring not to cross the line. The leader of this idiotic country and those posters here actually pushing Japan to rearm big time and treat SK as a potential enemy too, which itself, I think, is not so bad thing. Japan, as 1st step, not just antagonizing this idiotic country in the same childish manner, but should change the law inside and kick all these anti-Japan tribal residents out of the country for good. Too many of them inside Japan not really welcomed and just disgusting nowadays. Enjoy the rest of your days in Japan.

5 ( +15 / -10 )

And this is simply practicing my freedom of thought and expression.

Bravo! Freedom of expression

4 ( +11 / -7 )

extanker: "Or just maybe, Japan has avoided being the aggressor in all these disputes with South Korea in order to not further antagonize the situation."

No, they want to, but they know that Japan would fire a volley of warning shots as they did with a Russian jet flying into their airspace the other day, and would not hesitate to shoot them down if they continued the incursion. Japan also knows it is not actually their land, but South Korea's. Face it, bud, they are SK land, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what objections make any more than if China got angry when Japan flies over or sends ships to the Senkakus.

shochinmono: "What a thug country"

Who supports Japan doing the same with the Senkakus or what it argues is its territory in dispute with China. Oh, but what... that's "different", right?

"Otheriwise, such actions are nothing but disgusting and unnecessary provocation acts."

Unlike what Japan does, right?

"Bunch of Idiots. For this stupid country, Japan is a potential enemy."

Goes both ways -- I've seen you and others declare, as you do in this post, SK a "stupid" nation and others even saying, including politicians, Japan should go to war with SK and Russia to get the islands back.

" Too many of them inside Japan not really welcomed and just disgusting nowadays. Enjoy the rest of your days in Japan."

With a person like you "welcoming" them while begging for their money and demanding international media praise Japan for holding international venues? they are just showing a Superior attitude to the locals. Well done, Showchinmono. Your name can be substituted for every insult you throw at SK in your thread, except that it would actually be true in your case. SK was merely flying over their own islands.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

Military drills and fighter jets (no it's not mere surveillance planes) flying over the disputed islands. What a thug country, no different from the North shooting missiles onto Japan's EEZ.

@showchim - if Korea lay a claim to Tokyo, would it be a provocation for Japan to fly over Tokyo?

You won't see Japan occupy Dokdo in your lifetime, neither will your children or their children.

That's how it's going to be, so either accept it or jump up and down for the rest of time.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

@smith

 

shochinmono: "What a thug country"

Who supports Japan doing the same with the Senkakus or what it argues is its territory in dispute with China. Oh, but what... that's "different", right?

 

When did Japan do military drills or fly over fighter jets without China’s territorial waters violation? Can you tell us? Sure you can’t as Japan doesn’t

 

"Otheriwise, such actions are nothing but disgusting and unnecessary provocation acts."

Unlike what Japan does, right?

"Bunch of Idiots. For this stupid country, Japan is a potential enemy."

Goes both ways -- I've seen you and others declare, as you do in this post, SK a "stupid" nation and others even saying, including politicians, Japan should go to war with SK and Russia to get the islands back.

 

Freedom of thought/expression right?man? Aren’t you stressing it in the other thread?

So I don’t care who says what inside Japan. Besides? Who are the politicians who said Japan should go to war with them? Did he say or ask others around , if they think Japan wouldn’t be able to take it back forever without force(war)? Does it sound Japan should go to war to you? Yeah maybe, like some typical Korean media likes reporting Japan news in English often twist what actually happened and or be said. It is really like yourself.

 

 

" Too many of them inside Japan not really welcomed and just disgusting nowadays. Enjoy the rest of your days in Japan."

With a person like you "welcoming" them while begging for their money and demanding international media praise Japan for holding international venues? they are just showing a Superior attitude to the locals. Well done, Showchinmono. Your name can be substituted for every insult you throw at SK in your thread, except that it would actually be true in your case. SK was merely flying over their own islands.

 

Buhaha so can your name be substituted for every single insults you throw at Japan in your thread. I and Japan have no problems welcoming cheerful people visiting Japan. The problems are with those anti-Japan tribal residents building a big nest for all the anti-Japan campaigns, who should be thrown out of the country immediately

@Heck.

 

@showchim - if Korea lay a claim to Tokyo, would it be a provocation for Japan to fly over Tokyo?

 

Ask me the same question when it does that. LOL

8 ( +15 / -7 )

SK has gone insane accusing Japan's shift on whit-list, calling RETALIATION!! Eyes for Eyes!!

Look all SK has been doing since then? What sort of country could treat this uncivilized emotional Korean-tribal supremacist country as normal as they do with others. People well realized by now their reactions are really nothing but very Korean typical=Hwabyeong.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

Aggressive move by S. Korea yet again and the Korea supporters enjoy it.

Nothing aggressive at all. Every country has the right to patrol in it's own jurisdiction.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

@smithinjapan

they know that Japan (I assume you mean SK) would fire a volley of warning shots as they did with a Russian jet flying into their airspace the other day, and would not hesitate to shoot them down if they continued the incursion.

Oh please. I would love to see South Korea actually fire on a Japanese aircraft. They would get slapped down so hard by the US, Moon wouldn’t know which side of the DMZ he was on.

Not to mention, you just proved my point. Yes, Japan knows SK might do something completely asinine, which is their modus operandi. Japan is avoiding making the situation worse, exactly the opposite of anything South Korea does.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

Oh, look. The timing is perfect with new provocation from North Korea and military parade in China. So, Moon indirectly admits his enemy could be North Korea...or maybe Japan. And in another news, some people think Japan needs South Korea for its own safety. Wake up, you are dreaming. Guys, you don't go hysterical over a minor problem like some trade stricter controls. South Korea had already planned to erase the intelligence deal with Japan.

6 ( +14 / -8 )

Let me pick up some of foolish posts questioning "what's wrong with flying over its own territory".

They may not even know Moon officially advertise this action in his speech given at Oct 1st ”National Army Day"

smithinjapanToday  10:58 am JST

It's their land, they have a right to fly over it. If Japan thinks the islands are theirs, let them fly by it and see what happens. No? They won't? Guess they are not Japan's islands.

> Ex_ResToday  03:14 pm JST

Aggressive move by S. Korea yet again and the Korea supporters enjoy it.

Nothing aggressive at all. Every country has the right to patrol in it's own jurisdiction.

> Alfie NoakesToday  08:15 am JST

oldman_13Today 08:09 am JST

Once again South Korea shows its true aggressive nature.

We stand with you Japan.

How is flying jets over your own territory aggressive?

Those who think Takeshima belongs to SK are only a part of SKoreans and Pro-Korea&Anti-Japan nobodies(Others don't have any idea, or just have no idea, or just be forced to think such way), who likes insulting Japan has got no balls to take them back by force and keep laughing, but AT THE SAME TIME, bash Japan heavily for increasing military budget or on its moves toward change of art 9 to take them back.

COWARD is the word given for these scums

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Those who think Takeshima belongs to SK are only a part of SKoreans and Pro-Korea&Anti-Japan nobodies(Others don't have any idea, or just have no idea, or just be forced to think such way), who likes insulting Japan has got no balls to take them back by force and keep laughing, but AT THE SAME TIME, bash Japan heavily for increasing military budget or on its moves toward change of art 9 to take them back.

COWARD is the word given for these scums

@showchim - you can post 10 million rage filled comments about Dokdo, but nobody cares outside the two counties, and you need to accept that you won't see Japon control the islands in your lifetime.

65 years and counting..

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

@Heckleberry

It doesn’t give SK a legit excuse for running away to settle this dispute since after SK INVADED these islets from Japan when Japan was completely disarmed, does it?

8 ( +13 / -5 )

@showchim - you can post 10 million rage filled comments about Dokdo, but nobody cares outside the two counties, and you need to accept that you won't see Japon control the islands in your lifetime.

65 years and counting..

If you think it is entirely impossible, you are too naive. Intl community started realizing Koreans are Koreans, and the same as North, plus don't underestimate the move happening inside SKorea. Enough is enough and no one ,so far, has been challenging against primary source given by such brave scholars to back up anti-Japan tribalism, like Chong Dae Hyup which keeps running away from the direct requests for face-to face public debate on the very topic about what really happened to so called CW. Japan doesn't help them at all. Good-minded Koreans who can face uncomfortable truth has just started shaking the country inside-out before it gets too late to rescue the country from being absorbed by Kim's regime.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Others don't have any idea, or just have no idea,

Please do go into the difference.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

JoeintokyoToday  08:24 pm JST

Others don't have any idea, or just have no idea,

Please do go into the difference.

I meant Others don't just care or just have no idea

3 ( +10 / -7 )

It doesn’t give SK a legit excuse for running away to settle this dispute since after SK INVADED these islets from Japan when Japan was completely disarmed, does it?

@tictac - If SK indeed invaded a sovereign Japanese territory, then no, the length of time SK has controlled the islands do not give SK a legit excuse to continue to claim the islands.

However, the Japanese claim to the islands is highly questionable. Aside from the fact that old maps of Japan from the 1830s to 1890s do not show Dokdo as part of Japan's territory, Dokdo is actually visible to the naked eye from Ulleungdo, one of SK's islands. Therefore the Japanese claim that Korea did not know about Dokdo has little basis in fact.

Here's what Dokdo looks like from Ulleungdo:

https://i.postimg.cc/Jz4Vzqtz/a.jpg

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

If you think it is entirely impossible, you are too naive. Intl community started realizing Koreans are Koreans, and the same as North, plus don't underestimate the move happening inside SKorea.

@showchim - It is impossible. There is no chance. I guarantee it.

You can either accept it, or spend the rest of your life making all sorts of hopeful conjectures without changing anything.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

HeckleberryToday  09:01 pm JST

However, the Japanese claim to the islands is highly questionable. Aside from the fact that old maps of Japan from the 1830s to 1890s do not show Dokdo as part of Japan's territory, Dokdo is actually visible to the naked eye from Ulleungdo, one of SK's islands. Therefore the Japanese claim that Korea did not know about Dokdo has little basis in fact.

Here's what Dokdo looks like from Ulleungdo:

What a punch line of a joke. I didn't know you are just like SJ

HeckleberryToday  09:04 pm JST

@showchim - It is impossible. There is no chance. I guarantee it.

You can either accept it, or spend the rest of your life making all sorts of hopeful conjectures without changing anything.

No need for cheep guarantee. Japan might not have to get involved when Korea unified under Kim, new Acheson Line would be drawn and islets would be back entirely to DMZ or back to bombing maneuvering ground in this side of the fence.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima.

But, there is another small island called 'bamboo island' (Jukdo 竹島 in Korean) at 2 km (1 mile) east of Ulleungdo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jukdo_(island)

You may see those abundant bamboos there: https://wayfaringflaneur.com/2018/09/02/jukdo%EC%A3%BD%EB%8F%84-bamboo-island/

Japanese government never mentions this real bamboo island (Jukdo in Korean) when they explain their territorial claim. They intentionally omit it, or obfuscate it with Ulleungdo. For example:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html

https://www.mofa.go.jp/a_o/na/takeshima/page1we_000057.html

Long times ago, Japanese fishermen certainly recognized the existence of Jukdo 竹島 near Ulleungdo island. At that time, Takeshima did not designate the Liancourt Rocks, but Jukdo to Japanese fishermen. Both Jukdo and Ulleungdo are now Korean territories that Japan and the other countries acknowledge. Now the Japanese government claims the territorial right with a wrong name or a wrong location.

There are 7 Japanese islands called as the same name Takeshima (竹島 bamboo island) along the coast of Japan, and all of them have bamboo:  https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%AB%B9%E5%B3%B6 

But only one exception is the remotely-located Liancourt Rocks,called 'Dokdo' in Korean, which literally means a rock island.  It is a consistency problem. Koreans knew that it consisted of rocks, and therefore bamboo could not grow there. The so-called bamboo island without any bamboo was just an imaginary island for Japan to forcefully occupy Dokdo. Now they still shout "the bamboo island without any bamboo is a Japanese territory". What a farce!

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

@Heckleberry

Did you actually read what I wrote? There clearly is disagreement between JP and SK, hence JP proposed to settle the issue in ICJ like how civilized nations do. I can go on with why they don't belong to SK but Koreans wouldn't listen, would they?

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Split the islands down the middle, give one to SK and one to Japan, and tell them both to STFU about it forever or they both forfeit them to the UN.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

@IloveCoffe (and some others...)

Wrong, Liancourt Rocks are disputed even acknowledged by Korea as agreed on the 1965 treaty...oh wait...

Senkaku Islands are disputed also acknowledged by Japan.

Yet, both countries SK and China avoid calling the ICJ, I wonder why.

Wouldn't it be great if SK as well as China agreed on an ICJ ruling? Japan already suggested that - multiple times.

Until sanity returns back into SK politics, we must live with that. Moon is a typical politician trying to move the attention away from his failing politics and back to nationalism. All failing leaders do that. Unfortunately.

To my knowledge, Japan already acknowledged to follow any ICJ ruling. Then these matters would be over and settled - maybe also what some countries don't like to happen. Distracting from domestic politics would become more difficult for them.

And imagine, also the double or tripple Japan bashing account holders since a couple of weeks here would not be useful anymore.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

SJOct. 2 10:02 pm JST

The territorial claim of the Japanese government on Takeshima is comical. Japanese people know what 'Takeshima' literally means: bamboo island 竹島, but there is no bamboo in Takeshima.

With the same logic Greenland is flush with green vegetation and Iceland is completely covered with ice which both are completely wrong.

Greenland is a barren wasteland and Iceland is very much green due to geothermal heat. So does Takeshima really required to be covered with bamboo to gain it's name, nopehas no relevance whatsoever.

By the way the former name of Takeshima was Matsushima for your information.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

No need for cheep guarantee. Japan might not have to get involved when Korea unified under Kim, new Acheson Line would be drawn and islets would be back entirely to DMZ or back to bombing maneuvering ground in this side of the fence.

@showchim - no doubt you've already made thousands of posts about Dokdo, and it looks like you have chosen to continue to make tens of thousands more.

But it won't change anything, except maybe the gnashing of your teeth until you've ground your teeth down to nothing.

That's a guarantee.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Hey Japan get over it. Dokdo is and has always been a Korean territory historically and geographically. Heck even historical Japanese records denounced ownership of Dokdo. Ditto with Daioyudao and Ryukyu islands.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Imagine if Japan's airplane is patroling over Takeshima. Koreans will say "stop Japanese military aggression" all over the US trying to get the support in pressuring against Japan. But when Koreans do it, they have the every right to provoke Japan? Hypocrites.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Imagine if Japan's airplane is patroling over Takeshima...

Patrol? Because it’s not Japanese territory, it’s not patrolling when Japan flies over it without permission.

Provoke? Only the Japanese think it’s provocation. No other nation stands with Japan on this.

Hypocrites? It’s when Japan asks Korea not to show Dokdo on the unified flag for the 2018 Olympics on the pretext that it is a disputed island, and then includes the islands as Japanese territories in its website for the 2020 Olympics.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Tom DoleyToday  08:45 am JST

Imagine if Japan's airplane is patroling over Takeshima...

Patrol? Because it’s not Japanese territory, it’s not patrolling when Japan flies over it without permission.

Provoke? Only the Japanese think it’s provocation. No other nation stands with Japan on this.

Nope under the Rusk memorandum the US confirmed that Takeshima(Liancourt) is Japan's sovereign territory.

This memo was also found recently archived in Australia government library affirming that Australia also stands behind this memo.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Memorandum_in_regard_to_the_LiancourtRocks(Takeshima_Island)_controversy

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Nope under the Rusk memorandum the US confirmed that Takeshima(Liancourt) is Japan's sovereign territory.

Do you know the background to the Rusk memorandum? Do you know what a memo is?

SCAPIN 677 is the legal document, not some US secret memo that was published years later stating US' intention to use Dokdo as a military base under Japanese control. Furthermore, initial drafts of the Peace treaty showed US supporting Korean ownership. Also, none of the other signatories supported Japanese ownership of Dokdo.

And where was Korea during these negotiations? After all, negotiations should be made with affected parties right? Why did Japan explicity denounce Korea from attending the negotiations?

Its amazing how you have all these blind sheep on this site saying Korea should go to the ICJ with respect to Dokdo when Japan removed Korea from the original negotiations. Simply outrageous!

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

@Tom Doley

Hey Japan get over it. Dokdo is and has always been a Korean territory historically and geographically. Heck even historical Japanese records denounced ownership of Dokdo. Ditto with Daioyudao and Ryukyu islands.

I guess this is a common acknowledgement among Koreans in general resulted by brainwashing education. These islets legitimately belong to Japan in accordance with International Law (Terra nullius) as long as SK fails to provide the concrete evidence that SK had an "effective control" over Liancourt Rocks before 1905. Not a single evidence out of enormous historical evidence by Koreans so far had any indication of "effective control". Prove me wrong if you can. Please note that Samit's comment about "it never was Terra nullius" is invalid because there was no "official complaint by Korean gov" after Japan's incorporation of Liancourt Rocks went headline news in 1906.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

I guess this is a common acknowledgement among Koreans in general resulted by brainwashing education. 

@tic - Can't be much worse than the Japanese, brainwashed since birth to believe they were the victims of WW2, only trying to protect neighbouring Asian countries.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

@Heckleberry

Can't be much worse than the Japanese, brainwashed since birth to believe they were the victims of WW2, only trying to protect neighbouring Asian countries.

And how did you get this idea from? Your education perhaps?

"In contrast to American and Chinese textbooks Japanese history textbooks offer no strong narrative about the war. This is surprising given that many different war stories circulate in Japan’s public discourse and popular culture: as a war of aggression that did great damage to the peoples; as a war for the liberation of Asia from Western colonialism; as a war fought by heroic but doomed soldiers; as a war that the Japanese people themselves “victims”; and so forth. None of these stories find their way into the Japanese textbooks in undiluted form. Compared to the American and Chinese history textbooks their tone is muted, neutral, and almost bland. Perhaps it is this affectless neutrality that so infuriates not only the Japanese right-wing but also Chinese and Korean critics. The Japanese history textbooks do not tell the stories that they want to hear—or are used to hearing."

"Coverage of the war is quite limited in Korean textbooks, which focus primarily on the anti-Japanese resistance movements. No mention is made of the war in Europe, reference to the war in China is limited, and no mention is made of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

https://fsi-live.s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/Divided-Memory_In-house_2008.pdf

Back to the topic, is there any Koreans who can't sing Dokdo song? Have you ever research how much does JP gov teach Liancourt Rocks contents through their education system as compared to how much in SK? You'll see who is actually brainwashed here.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

These islets legitimately belong to Japan in accordance with International Law (Terra nullius) 

You conveniently leave out Japan’s surrender of Dokdo under SCAPIN 677.

Or are you one of the brainwashed people that thinks Japan has special privileges to nullify international agreements?

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Tom DoleyToday 10:51 am JST

SCAPIN 677 is the legal document,

Do you know what is declared in ALL Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers Directive(SCAPIN) documents;

None of the provisions in this Directive should be construed as indicating the Allied policy on the final decision of the small island in Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration. “This is a provisional directive.

The Rusk note was issued directly towards the Korean ambassador after this SCAPIN document.

The note was the Official standing by the US of A concerning Takeshima stating;

The United States Government does not feel that the Treaty should adopt the theory that Japan's acceptance of the Potsdam Declaration on August 9, 1945 constituted a formal or final renunciation of sovereignty by Japan over the areas dealt with in the Declaration. As regards the island of Dokdo, otherwise known as Takeshima or Liancourt Rocks, this normally uninhabited rock formation was according to our information never treated as part of Korea and, since about 1905, has been under the jurisdiction of the Oki Islands Branch Office of Shimane Prefecture of Japan. The island does not appear ever before to have been claimed by Korea. It is understood that the Korean Government's request that "Parangdo" be included among the islands named in the treaty as having been renounced by Japan has been withdrawn.

Basically stating the US stands by onside of Japan's claim to the island.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

As for SCAPIN 677 the US formally responded towards the Korean government;

On November 14, 1952, the US Department of State responded to the US Ambassador to South Korea that SCAPIN 677 does not exclude Japan's permanent sovereignty. In addition, the US Ambassador to Korea, who also received information on the Rusk Letter, responded to the Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs with No. 187 written as the Rusk Letter with Takeshima as the Japanese territory.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

You and fellow Japanese revisionists seem to think that the Rusk memo/letter/note overide SCAPIN 677.

It’s a one directional memo by the US for its own military interest and supported by persistent Japanese lobbying. It wasn’t even the ultimate agreement, and certainly did not overide the provisional agreement.

Japan signed the Potsdam declaration, SCAPIN 677 and the Peace treaty, with only SCAPIN specifically excluding Dokdo from Japanese territory. That was the ultimate agreement Japan signed with respect to Dokdo. All when Korea wasn’t even at the negotiating table.

And for your info, even the US now accepts Dokdo as Korean.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Tom DoleyToday 06:11 pm JST

You and fellow Japanese revisionists seem to think that the Rusk memo/letter/note overide SCAPIN 677.

It’s a one directional memo by the US for its own military interest and supported by persistent Japanese lobbying. It wasn’t even the ultimate agreement, and certainly did not overide the provisional agreement.

Japan signed the Potsdam declaration, SCAPIN 677 and the Peace treaty, with only SCAPIN specifically excluding Dokdo from Japanese territory. That was the ultimate agreement Japan signed with respect to Dokdo. All when Korea wasn’t even at the negotiating table.

And for your info, even the US now accepts Dokdo as Korean.

Looks as if someone is illiterate. LoL

When a document states "None of the provisions in this Directive should be construed as indicating the Allied policy on the final decision of the small island in Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration."

Then it means just that, not construed or indicative.

As for the USA standing for Takeshima, since they have not withdrawn from what Rusk wrote explaining USA's official standing then they have not changed their standing. Now if you can show any document that states otherwise then it is the same.

END OF STORY.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

@Tom Doley

You and fellow Japanese revisionists seem to think that the Rusk memo/letter/note overide SCAPIN 677.

How can we "revise" history while our claim is strictly based on the primary source of evidence?

It’s a one directional memo by the US for its own military interest and supported by persistent Japanese lobbying. It wasn’t even the ultimate agreement, and certainly did not overide the provisional agreement.

Have you actually read Rusk doc? It was U.S. official letter in response to a request from the South Korean Ambassador to recognize Liancourt Rocks as Korean territory and when did anyone claimed it ought to override SCAPIN677?

Japan signed the Potsdam declaration, SCAPIN 677 and the Peace treaty, with only SCAPIN specifically excluding Dokdo from Japanese territory. That was the ultimate agreement Japan signed with respect to Dokdo. All when Korea wasn’t even at the negotiating table.

Ultimate agreement?? Triring already pointed out how Koreans conveniently ignore 6th paragraph of SCAPIN667.

"None of the provisions in this Directive should be construed as indicating the Allied policy on the final decision of the small island in Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration. “This is a provisional directive."

Here is the primary source of SCAPIN667 in case you start calling us "revisionists" again.

https://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/takeshima/pdfs/g_taisengo01.pdf

Besides, many islands including Liancourt Rocks were separated from Japan at this point but it didn’t mean all of them are not Japanese islands. Many of them including the Ryukyu islands, Izu Islands, Nanpo Islands, Bonin and Volcano Islands etc were later returned to Japan. So this “separation” didn’t mean the separation of sovereignty.

Here is more.

*"The action of the United States-Japan Joint Committee in designating these rocks as a facility of the Japanese Government is therefore justified. The Korean claim, based on SCAPIN 677 of January 29, 1946, which suspended Japanese administration of various island areas, including Takeshima (Liancourt Rocks), did not preclude Japan from exercising sovereignty over this area permanently.  A later SCAPIN, No. 1778  of September 16, 1947 designated the islets as a bombing range for the Far East Air Force and further provided that use of the range would be made only after notification through Japanese civil authorities to the inhabitants of the Oki Islands and certain ports on Western Honsu."*

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Confidential_Security_Information_about_Liancourt_Rocks

I know Koreans are too deeply brainwashed and will keep on denying or ignoring any of these primary source of evidence to hide behind anti-Japan narrative, so Japan had been suggesting to let the third party involved to settle this matter at ICJ. If you are denying that you are brainwashed, why don't you urge your gov to settle this matter at ICJ? I don't wanna hear any of "Well it's ours anyway because we say so, why risk going to ICJ" BS.

And for your info, even the US now accepts Dokdo as Korean.

Lol, says who?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

When a document states "None of the provisions in this Directive should be construed as indicating the Allied policy on the final decision of the small island in Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration."

Then it means just that, not construed or indicative.

Having difficulties with comprehension? Why leave out parts of the statement to support your narrative?

“.... not construed as indicating the Allied policy on the final decision....”

It’s the ‘provisional’ decision that Japan agreed with, and there was no other final decision that the Allies came up with which Japan subsequently agreed with. Hence, the ‘provisional’ decision stands. Your Rusk memo was never the final decision of the Allies.

Pathetic.

END OF STORY

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites