3 Japan PM hopefuls urge elderly to stay on job for pension system

trinklets2Sep. 26  03:55 pm JST

@0rei0, some of your statement are questionable. For one you stated that since the 90's Jpensioners relocate overseas and that the Jgovt froze their payouts.

Did I say payouts were frozen in the nineties? That's right, I didn't. The law changes regarding pension payments overseas and inheritance tax were in the 2010's, under Aso's reign as finance minister- No real surprises there.

My husband was a pensioner and we lived for almost 9 yrs in the Philippines 2001-2009 and his pension was never frozen. 

Do you know what frozen means, in the context of pensions? Not to be confused with stopped.

Don't be part of it! These people do not contemplate an immigration policy, do not give you a path to nationality nor decent Visa, but want you to pay their pensions by working your entire life. Take your money out of the system, you can ask them to send all your pension contributions to a bank account abroad, provided you give up living in Japan, I think that is by far the best option when you approach 60. You can then reinvest your money as you like and keep going to Japan as a tourist if you really have to. Your mental health will benefit, the Japanese pension you will get is in most cases a small one.

@0rei0, some of your statement are questionable. For one you stated that since the 90's Jpensioners relocate overseas and that the Jgovt froze their payouts. My husband was a pensioner and we lived for almost 9 yrs in the Philippines 2001-2009 and his pension was never frozen. I have experienced all what I've written here and elsewhere not from readings alone. And I'm not faulting all foreign workers. I'm a foreign worker here too. But thanks for reminding me some words like sardonic.

trinklets2Today  08:26 am JST

@0rei0, I believe it's a factor but saying their effect is negligible is shortsightedness. You haven't been on the tight end of the rope for yrs in Japan.

Been here for over twenty years, living and working; Thanks for prejudging me anyway.

And I don't consider it "miniscule".

I actually said;

 minuscule amount of foreign workers

About 2.5% of Japan's working population- Pretty small, wouldn't you say? Even if said 2.5% were not to pay there pension, I can hardly see it impacting on the current highly predictable shortfall in funds that is leading the govt to request people keep on working rather than retire.

https://www.statista.com/topics/7451/employment-in-japan/#dossierSummary__chapter6

Insinuating working in China and dodging taxes while working 2 jobs...

Good lord. Have you never heard of being sardonic? It was a scenario which may become all too real in the future.

Since the nineties many Japanese pensioners took the decision to relocate overseas, where the cost of living was more amenable, to improve their circumstances re the national pension. The govt reacted by freezing overseas payouts and nearly doubling inheritance tax liabilities to Japan, regardless of location. Would that be the fault of foreign workers too?

No wonder the "Japanese mind" is incomprehensible to you. And not a word on the pension system: Can't see our posts lasting long...

"3 Japan PM hopefuls urge elderly to" bend over.

@0rei0, I believe it's a factor but saying their effect is negligible is shortsightedness. You haven't been on the tight end of the rope for yrs in Japan. Making oneself worth hiring in Japan whatever your nationality is involves some sort of politics, some luck, some charm not just being able to do the job more than the rest. And I don't consider it "miniscule". If you will just open your eyes, you won't use that word. That "Japanese mind" encompasses a lot and it's quite uncomprehensible to me despite these yrs living here. Just don't get me wrong. I love Japan and I'm just sad that it slid to 3 from being number 2 and with all these talks might not even regain it. Insinuating working in China and dodging taxes while working 2 jobs, I'm utterly in disbelief. You are really showing who you are!

@trinklets2

Where to start...

 "darn pesky foreigners working their way" are one of the reasons why the pension fund is deficient.

I'd hazard a guess that their effect on the current dire situation of the pension fund is largely negligible- You need to look a little higher up towards the inept management of the whole system, ignoring decades of warning signs and the actualities that trouble was coming.

Imagine me and the rest whose contracts weren't extended

Worth hiring, not worth firing. Automatic contract extensions are a thing of the past, in particular Japan's past, though some would like to cling on to this unsustainable, heavily biased safety net. Do these foreign workers get automatic contract extensions? I think not. They have to make themselves worth hiring.

 But they're actually destroying the Jeconomy

Blaming the minuscule amount of foreign workers for Japan's economic woes, many of whom do pay their taxes, is just smoke and mirrors. Why should foreign workers be expected to commit to a country and pay into a financial black hole, that barely opens the door a crack to them? Nenkin is a tired old joke, I don't think anyone under sixty, hand on heart, could honestly disagree.

'Japanese mind', to misallocate a quote from Japan's finance minister, is possibly the chief factor, ushering in financial misfortune on Japan. Sense of entitlement is a dangerous thing in this day and age: If or when the pension systems around the world start to fail, watch the dominoes fall. We'll all be working to the end, if 'Tech' has left us any jobs, that is.

Maybe we'll all have to be 'Foreign workers' in China, dodging taxes, working two jobs...

@0rei0, those "darn pesky foreigners working their way" are one of the reasons why the pension fund is deficient. Imagine me and the rest whose contracts weren't extended just because some senior company employees prefer them because they don't just do work inside the factory but do "entertain" them on their free time. And we who were outrightly laid off would fall in line for govt alms thereby depleting govt fund. On their side, they are merely working very hard. But they're actually destroying the Jeconomy and that includes the topic of the day, nenkin. The Jgov wants workers because of greying population but if the workers they're letting in won't or would dodge paying into the fund for the reason that they're still students even working "full time" is frustrating.

Awful policy.

If they want to work, it's fine, but they still get their pension.

Other developed countries fund their pension system from tax and pay out at equal rate.

The problems with Japan’s system are the same in systems in many other countries, Japan just is aging faster and so hitting the wall first

Don't forget how the government lost a massive amount of pension money in the past.

You are probably referring to short term losses of the GPIF in some financial reporting periods, but the GPIF has made nice profits in other periods. You can consider that Japanese stocks are at 3 decade highs now and imagine that they have been doing ok.

Alas, the GPIF as large as it is is still dwarfed by annual pension outlays.

Rather than a GPIF, every single person should have a dedicated account that they pay into for their future retirement. (These savings would become a massive pool of funds for investment too, which would be great economically if only the government would also reform to make Japan the most attractive place in the world to invest.)

Noda said the declining birth rate is behind rising concerns about the future of the pension system, and that it is vital to increase the number of people shouldering the system.

It’s way too late for that. Population dynamics won’t be changing anytime soon even if the birth rate were to miraculously double instantaneously.

But in the first place, if your system doesn’t work with a shrinking population, it ought be obvious to anyone with the intention to lead the country that the system is an unsuitable one.

Kono gets one brownie point from me for acknowledging that:

"What we must defend is our pension lives in the future, not the pension system itself," Kono said.

That’s very important.

The objectives must be the starting point here, not the means. And clinging to a pay-as-you-go system while the population ages is obviously not going to meet the objective, which I would assert is to ensure that the elderly have adequate to live in their retirement.

Kono has drawn questions from his rivals after proposing creating a guaranteed minimum portion of public pension that would be fully financed by tax revenues instead of premiums.

Taxes, premiums call it what you will, if the money be paid by those paying is siphoned off to pay for current retirees then it’s just tinkering with the existing broken system.

The clear obvious system is to transition away from a taxation based pay-as-you-go system, to one in which those paying into the system are actually putting away money to support themselves in retirement -similar to the iDeCo accounts that were already introduced some years back.

This is how a lot of people mistakenly believe the current system works, so should be broadly acceptable.

The only remaining question then is what to do about existing pensioners in order to transition to the new sustainable system.

This is where the debate should focus.

For example, the national government has to look at selling off assets to raise funds to build a chest of money to help tide over existing pensioners.

The next one is a non-starter politically probably due to the huge numbers of elderly, but the reality in Japan is most of the 1,900 trillion yen of assets are already held by the elderly cohort. So rather than expect the poor young to keep paying them even more money, the existing elderly cohort needs to come to the party for the good of the younger generation and take the responsibility for supporting those who are unable to support themselves.

Otherwise the whole system likely goes down in flames leaving millions of elderly in the lurch.

Excellent El Rata. My own pension is what I take out of my investments for playtime. The '40s is great. Go for it. I waited a little bit more but never needed to work but I liked it and had a great time.

LOL sorry wannabe PM's. I'm retiring in my 40's. I couldn't care less about your pitiful pension system or the pensioners.

At Snowy and bvd/

You missed something:

States without pensions or Social Security taxes include:

Alabama.

Alaska.

Florida.

Illinois.

Mississippi.

Nevada.

New Hampshire.

Pennsylvania.

However, all pensions are taxed under federal law in the US.

Sure would be nice to be collecting FERS, SS, and Japanese power pension. But living on a Golden Spoon is much easier.

It is the main reason why we want you and your bvd self to keep working to pay into the system. You must pay. It is the law.

Have a good weekend and enjoy your office routine on Monday. We all know from your posts that you love your job.

The Japanese pension system is fabulous if you do the time, and I am sure you will have to do so.

Highly probable scenarios @zichi 3:52pm. For example, a retired, former U.S. government GS-15, step 10 under the FERS system could be receiving a pension in excess of $56,400 annual. Also from previous posts, doubling ShinkansenCaboose’s pension with that of his wife Kyakusenbi_Arimasu’s GS-13 retirement income and they are living quite comfortably, even in Japan. Perhaps we should ask ourselves:

*[My monthly pension comes to ¥470,000 a month, what have all of you done wrong?] @3:52pm: “you also claimed yesterday not to pay any income taxes?*

@Zichi: No American income tax just like trump and others. The laws are set up for you not to have to pay.

Also probable: there are about 14 states that do not tax that form of retirement pension, Illinois and Florida for example.

https://www.quora.com/A-friend-of-mine-just-retired-as-a-civilian-GS15-working-for-the-United-States-Navy-for-33-years-He-always-brags-about-his-huge-pension-What-kind-of-pension-is-he-actually-getting

Good health to ALL and enjoy it your retirement.

@Miss Oikawa: Stepped in the right puddles and did well. Did do over nine full years of College, Grad School, and other advanced degrees. I enjoy studying.

@Zichi: No American income tax just like trump and others. The laws are set up for you not to have to pay.

@Laguna

It's not voluntary. I know of people who got "caught" after years in Japan and had to pay years' worth of pension insurance. If they don't find out about you (and chances are, admittedly high they won't), you don't have to pay. But that's only if you're willing to take that risk.

Plain abuse of the elderly.

Japanese pension system rips off normal Japanese people and enriches companies, governments and insurance companies via hidden commissions and kick backs.

Time for change Japan , investigate, complain and demand a better system.

You’re becoming working poor while the region is enjoying great riches.

"Its charming to see a 60s something working but not realistic if japan wants to stay ahead of the curve in relation to just about everything."

Which curve might you be referring to, John?

Forgot to add - and this is a key point - once you're enrolled, unenrolling is virtually impossible.

Bit of advice for newbies: when you arrive, they will urge you to enroll in the pension system. It's voluntary, after all. Do not. Save money for your own retirement. I trust the US social security, but not Japan's. They'll rip you off for every yen.

All this candidates belong to the same political party.

How is this democracy?

Who said it was? It isn't.

@Wolfpack

So if a national government can just print money at will to meet their obligations what is to stop them from printing enough to make every man woman and child a billionaire? Contemplate that and reassess how ridiculous that idea is.

The limits on resources (human, industrial, structural, etc) within the economy. Also, dangerously high levels of inflation. Japan, the world's 3rd biggest economy that owns its own debt, has quite a lot of the former and none of the latter. Contemplate that.

The pension systems are ponzi schemes because just like Madoff it requires people paying into the system to payoff those who are expecting a return.

And if Madoff had a machine that printed yen at will, he would been easily able to pay his investors returns and would have never gone to jail. Contemplate that and reassess how ridiculous your Ponzi scheme analogy is.

ShinkansenCaboose

What job did you use to do?

What is your pension composed of?

Never depend on the government to take care of you in retirement. That goes for all countries governments.

Take home

My monthly pension comes to ¥470,000 a month, what have all of you done wrong?

All this candidates belong to the same political party.

How is this democracy?

all the government cares about is taxes. Its charming to see a 60s something working but not realistic if japan wants to stay ahead of the curve in relation to just about everything.

If any of these stooges want Japan advance over the next era, urging retiree to work until they are 105 will not work. Here is an idea, how about making immigrating easier instead working your elderly to death.

They know that many of those nearing retirement are relics of that storied Bubble era, making enormous salaries and contributing little to productivity.

Yes, it would be stupid for force companies to keep on all workers, unproductive ones included, past 60 on the same large salaries. Remember also that the first people likely to benefit from this change would be public sector workers, i.e., fossils making 8 million a year of taxpayer money for stamping hankos at your local town hall. The same city hall will likely have half of its younger employees on hiseiki (non-regular) contracts with low pay and no benefits. If you have a child in a hoikuen, the staff over 50 may be on close to double the salary of the younger staff for doing exactly the same job.

Productive workers lose out by being forced out at 60, but they lose out even more due to a unflexible employment system that denies them advancement through switching companies. Tieing workers to companies does not benefit those with marketable skills. It benefits the untalented who merely need to get their foot in the door.

The saddest aspect all of my neighbors, farm owners in later stages of life.

Out tolling a small landholding, devoted to producing local seasonal produce.

I help, getting my hand dirtily, because we all have grown a close friendship as a community.

Pensions?

For these farmers is a life's work. So refuse to stow the harvester.

I suggested to one, you could end buried next to the contraption.

Yesterday I was sitting on a harvester. It is a humbling experience quite calming.

The young people won't for a minute contemplate such a career.

And yes agriculture is a career.

Agriculture is essential to every community.

All these so called hopefuls have lost touch with the realities of their people.

These Presidential candidates are oblivious to the struggles of J modern life.

fwiw, every stay at home mom who raises an under three without using a public hoikuen saves the state at least 1.5 million yen a year in subsidies

-which is why I wrote ‘full time housewives’ and not ‘stay at home mums’. Looking after little kids adds a whole new dimension.

Kono has drawn questions from his rivals after proposing creating a guaranteed minimum portion of public pension that would be fully financed by tax revenues instead of premiums.

work until you die or vote Kono

Everyone is fooled giving more than what you will receive.

Ponzi scheme indeed.

I am preparing myself my own retirement package, although in France the system will not be as bad as in Japan (women and men like s x much here).

If some dream to work and make others richer, I want to work for myself and let the wealth I create only for me, not for politicians. And that wealth is not mainly made of money, it is available time for friends and family, you know the things that cannot be bought.

Sorry to say but if at around 50 you were not able to pay for your housing and let's say a car, you'll get screwed even at 60 or 70 and remain a slave of the system you don't control.

I praise those who love their career, but I praise more those who care more for their friends, family and even help just "others".

Major Japanese companies here offer a good retirement package. But that means working 40 years without much vacation, nearly dedicating yourself for the company.

Otherwise, many wish to keep working, but I am also sure many would not retire and stop working if they had enough vacation and rest time. some chose to stop because they have been tired to continuously work and want to enjoy their life for the remaining days. Understandable.

If the hardest part of my job was getting re-elected I would work forever too. Some of us have challenging jobs not like these out of touch morons

housewives do not give husbands an auyomatic tax benefit even if they earn less than 1.3M. 

The 1.3M threshold is for dependency under shakai hoken, i.e., whether the spouse needs to make health insurance and pension payments. It has nothing to do with taxes.

There is a separate threshold for when income tax payments begin and when the husband gets a tax deduction. For most people though, the free pension and health insurance is the key battleground for spousal dependency. Hitting the threshold effectively costs you 30,000 yen or so a month, around a 30% pay cut on a 1.3M salary.

The culture will have to change then. There is a definite preference for younger candidates or ageism in many companies. Our HR staff derogatorily refer to applicants and candidates past age 45 as ossan.

I retired at the old age of 39 after 20 years of hard working in mines around the world.

@WeiWei. Did not know that. I quit the working world well before two years back. Thanks for that info.

@Zichi. The savings from my wife paying off all hers in one sum was about ¥3000. I could be wrong but do not believe it is 80% pay at all. Well into high ninety or so but three thousand yen is some good money for fish. Great and cheap fish in this country.

The biggest hit on a good pension here is divorce. The American system does not penalize divorcees with Social Security but they sure do with the lawyers and alimony. Child support is cheap in America. Very expensive here. Cost me ¥250,000 a month for years.

Just to correct some info above: housewives do not give husbands an auyomatic tax benefit even if they earn less than 1.3M. Two years ago income limits were set for the tax benefit, so only if the husband is not a high earner he will get a tax break for housewive.

A 10 years contribution of ¥15,000/month, will qualify you for maybe ¥20,000/mo. Continue to contribute to the system for a few more years might get ¥200/mo more.

@JeffLee: No it isn't. Not by a long shot. How many Ponzi schemes can freely print a global safe-haven currency? 

So if a national government can just print money at will to meet their obligations what is to stop them from printing enough to make every man woman and child a billionaire? Contemplate that and reassess how ridiculous that idea is.

The pension systems are ponzi schemes because just like Madoff it requires people paying into the system to payoff those who are expecting a return. If the money going in cannot pay for the amount going out the ponzi scheme reaches a point where it will collapse.

There is a point where borrowing by a national bank to fill in the short fall will not be sustainable because the financial system (ie the stock market) will come to realize the whole system has no fundamental financial underpinning to keep it afloat. Investors will pull their money out to prevent the potential for future losses. The stampede of investors rushing for the exits to avoid being left with nothing will happen overnight. Now you have a government already maxed out on debt trying to pick up the pieces. They will print money alright but inflation will eat up its value and make everyone poorer. Printing money to prop up a pozi scheme pension system is great for those today who are getting out way more than they put in. But a disaster tomorrow when the national bill comes due. And at some point it will come due.

and contribute to the public pension system in a bid to ensure its sustainability amid the country's rapidly aging population

To ensure its sustainability?! I'm reluctant to believe they actually said such a thing. Because they are implying that unless the situation changes, or the opposite of the current situation occurs, then the whole system will be unsustainable. Which would imply that nobody envisaged such an eventuality when the previous pension system was transformed (my memory is bad, remind me how many years ago was that?).

Speaking in the meeting involving about 100 citizens online, Takaichi said the government can oblige companies to keep employing people until they turn 70.

Really?! How? I mean, until now, they have not yet been able to implement a hard lockdown or similar solution, instead of the current ridiculous "state of emergency" on the grounds that there is no constitutional right to do so, that it would hit businesses and they might commit suicide, etc. So how would they oblige companies?!

Kishida, in contrast, has said he would not raise the consumption tax from the current 10 percent for about 10 years.

That's quite a bold statement! How he came to that conclusion, I don't understand. To claim such nonsense with a 10-year window is simply nonsense. Because they don't know what the financial situation will be. The financial situation that should have improved under Abe and his constant promises.

If the older generation wants to and is able to work until they are 70 then it should be a choice not a requirement for pensions.

Its just the government way to pay less pension by making the older generation work longer and increasing taxes.

Perhaps if the female population felt more comfortable then perhaps more babies would be born.

But there are certain foods that reduce birthrates - soy sauce and Katsuobushi mainly.

Then there's the covid vaccine also.

the totally unequal system whereby full-time housewives get a pension

Millions of dependents under shakai hoken will work, but only under the dependency threshold. 1.3 million yen a year or whatever it is. So they are not "full-time housewives". fwiw, every stay at home mom who raises an under three without using a public hoikuen saves the state at least 1.5 million yen a year in subsidies (and probably forms a stronger bond with the child), so for that year at least, they deserve a free pension regardless of whether the husband is on shakai hoken. Childcare for babies and toddlers is extremely expensive to provide. Kyoto City cites it as one reason they are nearly bankrupt.

My main point here is that spousal dependency and indeed companies retiring staff at 60, are distorted systems that are clearly gamed by the players. People should not be given bad incentives like "I better cut my hours to say under the threshold".

At Cleo: When a husband turns 60 and his wife not 60 yet she has to start paying into the pension stem like everyone else.

Someone above wrote retirement ain’t all that good, loosing self esteem etc being non-productive.

I will contemplate that thought down at the surf this noon while drinking a tall boy between sets! Daniel?

The ponzi scheme that is national pension is collapsing, US following shortly.

That’s so true. The structure of the Japanese (and American) national “pension” plans are unsustainable no matter how hard we try to convince ourselves otherwise. Supporters of ever greater social spending cannot be convinced otherwise. Japan’s debt and pension burden combined is going to do the country in over the long term. The Chinese will be there and gladly buy them out at fire sale prices. The people will then have to start over along with a tremendous amount of human misery.

It’s sad to see countries in the midst of a slow motion suicide. But it’s not like we are really too dumb to know what we are doing to ourselves. We are running up debts to live better than we should be now. Future generations will feel the pain that we will have transferred onto them. I just hope the collapse doesn’t occur until I have extracted back out every bit of the money I put into it.

Brainstorming not barnstorming !

It’s in many countries only a system for show purposes, telling something like all are contributing, employees and employers, and then the wealth continues. Of course that is a fake with lower minimum wages, disrupted short careers and aging childless societies. Therefore filled up with taxes at last or replaced by basic incomes.

You'd think a former gender equality minister would want to do something about the totally unequal system whereby full-time housewives get a pension equal to the fill kokumin nenkin without having paid a single yen into the system, while their husbands (earning enough to afford to have a stay-at-home wife) at the same time get tax relief for having a non-earner at home.

As for the politicians' pensions; put them on the kokumin nenkin, then sit back and watch as that scheme gets better and better.

The japanese pension system cannot work - its a mathematical/demographic impossibility. Same for many countries including China. Hence the vaccine.

NO THANK YOU, Work to death is what they are basically saying.

The average life expectancy for men is about 75 years and for women is about 80, so men only get to enjoy the benefits of their hard working years for about 5 years.

It is the system responsibility to make sure that enough funds are available to support itself, also if and when the government employees pay their fare share and get an equal pension in line with the public sector then there will be enough cash to go around.

Oh, and maybe the 4 PM hopefuls debating this issue could be open and transparent about the pensions they are due to receive. I wonder if they could explain why the system for the general population is structured differently to the private schemes they are due to benefit from.

GOOD POINT.

it is not supportable that people dont work the first 18-22 years of life and then also dont work the last 25-30.

As kids cant work, no choice but to add more work onto the end of life. If retirement age changes to 70, they of course need to stop the discriminatory practices against people in their 40s and 50s and stop the forced retirement of 60 where people still work the same, but get royally screwed on salary.

Many Japanese companies have a pre-retirement demotion plan for people as young as in their late 40s. 

This is something that is hardly ever talked about, but should be. Japan's employment stability is famous but the ways in which immoral employers chip away at it with things like this deserve more recognition. They will ruthlessly cut the pay of employees who reach a certain age and haven't shown management potential, and often have formal systems in place to cut the pay of 60-year-olds who reach "retirement" age but want to keep working. Can't exactly retire if there's no pension in place for you, so these people are stuck working for pay that can be lower than a fresh graduate. All that institutional knowledge devalued just because the employee is getting older and the company knows they won't get hired anywhere else!

the ponzi scheme that is national pension is collapsing, 

No it isn't. Not by a long shot. How many Ponzi schemes can freely print a global safe-haven currency? The GPIF is also the world's biggest pension fund and is growing in size, last time I checked.

Not that it matters. Japan prints money to pay for such obligations -- because it can. Surplus cash is absorbed thru bond issuance, nearly half of which are held by the Bank of Japan, and the rest domestically or foreigners who are happy to own Japanese debt at near zero percent. If you don't think that's a sweet deal, then you don't understand public finance.

I don't know how much I will be eligible for at 65

Why don't you check your pension records? They show a projection from age 64 onward. (It seems people with the strongest opinions on this topic have the least amount of knowledge.)

Japanese people have one of the longest average life expectancies on the planet. It is only logical that, under these circumstances, that the age for vesting in retirement benefits be raised to 78 or even 80 years old.

This would help reduce the outflow and increase contributions to the retirement fund, and keep the system solvent.

Retirement is an overrated pipedream anyway. A person who does not engage in a productive activity loses self esteem and is a burden on others. To compensate for raising retirement age, provide more vacation time to working people, so that they can have more fun while they are young.

All well and good, but what are you supposed to do when your company boots you out at 60 just because you've turned that age, regardless of experience, the work you're producing and so on? Not to mention that some companies in fact mandate retirement at 60, not 65.....

No wonder this country can be such a joyless place at times.

Oh, and maybe the 4 PM hopefuls debating this issue could be open and transparent about the pensions they are due to receive. I wonder if they could explain why the system for the general population is structured differently to the private schemes they are due to benefit from.

Breaking News: Ponzi schemes don't work when the pyramid is inverted.

Instead of just trying to fudge the existing broken system, maybe it's time to change the whole approach to the pension system.

Understandable. Their chums work way past retirement age.

Jokes aside, it's always rich when the super-wealthy ask the plebs to contribute to "the economy" while they themselves don't. And it's depressing to see how voters actually fall for it.

They must not want to get elected? It’s already decided anyway.

I am really enjoying the postings this morning right above. Excellent posts.

Even though I have lived inJapan for more than 35 years, the pension system is the reason I will never retire here. I don't know how much I will be eligible for at 65, but I know it won't be enough to live on. I am a full-time company employee and I choke each month when I see how much is deducted from my pay and knowing I won't get a big enough pension to live on.

I like my job and I would like to continue working into the 70s, as long as I am healthy. But I still wish I could invest the money deducted each month into an interest-bearing fund in my home country, so I could plan for the future.

If they made some cuts to the ridiculously overpaid and inefficient civil servants the pension issue would be fixed.

absolutely! Not to mention cuts to the pork barrel spending.

Many elderly people likely want to work, but most companies don't want to give them jobs because companies have to pay kosei-nenkin (monthly social security pension fees for employees) to the government.

I stopped working years ago because I could and love retirement.

Kokumin nenkin is small unless you had a very high salary for forty years, not twenty.

Kyosai nenkin from a kumiai if you belong to one can be much more than kokumin, but if you got divorced, half the kyosai goes to the ex. Not sure how that works exactly, …does the ex take the higher of t he two of which one is hers, or do they add it on to hers? Anyone know?

If you take a second wife and she is not working and still too young to collect her kokumin nenkin, they give you what is called kyakunenkin. Not very large but pays the bills.

I would not want to be young these days. So save your money, pay off your debts completely and enjoy doing the paperwork for the whole nenkin game. It is a nightmare and my folder is 3-4 centimeters thick and still growing.

If they made some cuts to the ridiculously overpaid and inefficient civil servants the pension issue would be fixed.

Right.... "Forced" retirement at 60, contracted employee with 1/3 or more of their income cut, loss of other benefits, and doing the EXACT same job until 65!

Now you want to push it to 70?

As of right now, people who were born in 1963(Showa 38) can not collect full retirement money until they turn 65.

I work with a number of people who had to "quit" working fulltime at 60, but were "rehired" as 常勤 or "fulltime" employees. They get no bonuses, lost all their 手当allowances, and are limited to 10 vacation days a year.

Senior citizen slave labor!

How appealing to a nation of work aholics, sure to get the oldies vote

The whole pension system is a scam!!

And in the mean time, those on non permanent jobs have to leave every 5 years for a period of 6 months, become unemployed and then try to get their same jobs back Usually when they return, they end up with a smaller wage than before. In the mean time you are still required to pay in to the pension system and pay health insurance, citizen tax and whatever else.

Also. people are not getting married and producing children because they can't get job security and the minimum wage is far too low. Other developed countries fund their pension system from tax and pay out at equal rate. Don't forget how the government lost a massive amount of pension money in the past.

The pension system is doomed to fail no matter what: Ponzi schemes always collapse, without exception. They should let people put their pension money where they want (ideco for example) and stop with this madness.

in the future most of us will have to do that as we won't have much, if any, coming in from the pension.

I'll be 68 in a few months but I'm not quitting anytime soon.

trinklets2Today  07:25 am JST

Seems like they have that inert despise of the elderly. They want us to keep working till we bend just so we can contribute to the pension fund but they spare the young foreign Jlanguage students who work 2 jobs with a total of more than 8hrs a day and at times 5 to 6 days a week without pitching to the system! Where is justice?

Those darn pesky foreigners, working hard to pay their own way instead of heavily (over)relying on the system like the locals, and which largely excludes them anyway: Heaven knows why they wouldn't want to throw their earnings into that money pit of a system, with a non-existent pension beckoning.

The future is, and always has been since around the seventies, look after yourself because the pension carpet is going to get pulled from under your feet.

There should be a retirement age, people should be able to work for as long as they want to. The pension age will rise though, as life expectancy rises.

Retirement age will soon be disputed as it's based on chronological/calendar age without considering other age-related attributes such as biological age or career development history. They must differ considerably among individuals. It's a sheer discrimination when you fire someone because of sex or ethnicity, then why is (chronological) age kept relevant reason?

@P.Smith

Glad you’re almost there, Monty. Good luck on the final stretch; I hope it flies by for you!

Thank you!

Former Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida, former internal affairs minister Sanae Takaichi and former gender equality minister Seiko Noda said in an online town hall meeting for the Sept 29 presidential election of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party that more people aged 65 and older should continue to work and pay pension premiums.

Utterly cynical calculations by the candidates. They know that many of those nearing retirement are relics of that storied Bubble era, making enormous salaries and contributing little to productivity. They do not want that cash flow to be cut off too soon.

On the other hand, the "younger", saddled with precarious employment and low salaries, do not have very good prospects of significantly contributing to the pension coffers anytime soon, especially with the pandemic downturn. They will strive to get that tax money any way they can though, even if they have to draw blood from stone.

So they admitted the pension scam can not actually pay back the money people were forced to pay into it?

And having known this was going to happen 30+ years ago admit they did nothing to reform the system to alleviate the problem, rather than take responsibility ask everyone to take one for the team to cover their incompetence. Beautiful Japan work until death.

Kono has drawn questions from his rivals after proposing creating a guaranteed minimum portion of public pension that would be fully financed by tax revenues instead of premiums.

Kono's plan is the centre of discussion at the session, which I also find worth debating. By quick calculation, the consumption tax rate needs to be raised from the current 10 % to 15 % to guarantee the minimum pension amount (65,000 yen per month). Meanwhile the current scheme financed though pension premiums (at minimal 16,000 yen per month) is already becoming heavy burdens on younger lower-income individuals.

There should be a retirement age, people should be able to work for as long as they want to. The pension age will rise though, as life expectancy rises.

Seems like they have that inert despise of the elderly. They want us to keep working till we bend just so we can contribute to the pension fund but they spare the young foreign Jlanguage students who work 2 jobs with a total of more than 8hrs a day and at times 5 to 6 days a week without pitching to the system! Where is justice?

instead of to cut cost where it can be done, they prefer to push people to work until death...

When your people live close to 100 years old. Retirement age will have to change. People in the future might live to 120 or 130. You can't expect to retire at the same age when life expectancy was 50 to 70. Japan is not the only country making this changes. More countries will have to follow.

I think that retirement age is ageism, thus should be abolished altogether. Employers instead should be allowed to cut employment through negotiations (with retirement money guaranteed)

That is all well and good. I know plenty of people in their 60s who wish to keep working, but the government needs to force companies to employ them under fair conditions past 60.

Many Japanese companies have a pre-retirement demotion plan for people as young as in their late 40s. No one wants to keep working for 15-20 years in a lesser position with less pay than they are used to.

When your people live close to 100 years old. Retirement age will have to change. People in the future might live to 120 or 130. You can't expect to retire at the same age when life expectancy was 50 to 70. Japan is not the only country making this changes. More countries will have to follow.

The ponzi scheme that is national pension is collapsing, US following shortly.

3 Japan PM hopefuls urge elderly to stay on job for pension system

Keep elderly wok until when? Are they assuming that elderly will work and live forever? What is purpose pension system then?

to keep employing people until they turn 70.

Work until you drop!

Count me out! I am counting already my days until my pension.

Just a little bit more to go for me.

Work, work, work, that’s your life.

The LDP took the lead with many elderlies over 70 still employed within the party.