Chinese premier urges Japan to join 'Silk Road' infrastructure project

photo caption:

clan in da front, let your feet stomp!

hoods on the right, wild for the night!

Abe and Li know each other 30 years ago. The relationship between Japan and China is at least 3000 years old. If the ancient silk road benefited Japan a lot, the new silk road will benefit Japan a lot lot. There is no reason for Japan to be afraid of China. Anyone with a head knows that there is no road around Japan. That is why the United States of Northeast Asia is vital to the future of Japan, the only road to the eternity of prosperity.

Great news for Abe. He secured his PM title with China's blessing, unless he changes his head again.

China has sought to expand its infrastructure networks in Asia, the Middle East, Europe and Africa to attain its goal of connecting countries along the ancient Silk Road more closely,

China is well along the road already. In this regard its planned economy has set it streets ahead of the US and Japan. It's probably too late for Japan to catch up. If the US shows it's an unreliable partner, Japan will need to find different alliances.

Join the Silk Road project! it is time to steer Japan back into Asia, away from the USA. I'm not anti-American (I always enjoy going there), but I'm a realist.

Japan it would be in your best interest to join without preconditions or petulant demands

Hmmm.....  how exactly this will benefit an already fully developed economy like Japan is dubious.  Japan was anyway never part of the old Silk Road trading network

Kaerimashita, anyone with a little head would know that Japan was beneficiary of the ancient silk road and will benefit from the new one.

According to UNESCO: “Japan is one of the major countries in the eastern terminus of the historical Silk Roads that is well-known throughout the ages for its traditions, wealth and stunning art while it was far from the foreign visitors’ access."

@Kaerimashita: When I was about 8 or 9, may family went to Nara for the "Great Silk Road Exhibition", which showed Nara was the far eastern end of the Silk Road, which at its peak, ran from Venice to Nara. Go to Shosoin 正倉院 (the Imperial Museum) in Nara, and see Persian glass and musical instruments, and things from all over the Silk Road.

PS At the Great Silk Road Exhibition in Nara around 1988, I have a catalogue showing that there were exhibitions of Silk Road goods from China, Iran, Iraq, Russia, the US, etc. Sort of unthinkable now.

The entire concept of China's Silk Road is different from that of the old Silk Road which existed by sheer necessity of transportation and travel. They can be compared but not considered to be for the same reasons and purpose as being touted. It is but a "propaganda".

Today's Chinese concept of the Silk Road is for China's benefit ONLY. (Xi specifically stated that China's efforts are to give it the rightful place in the world.) That road if one actually look at the map, ONLY connects physically, China to Europe via other nations. Today the entire world is connected by air and sea. Land based connection has been the work of each different country;'s efforts for their own needs and uses and NOT for other's to use.

Such connected road actually allows not only commodities but also "military" access. A very "dangerous" situation, Militarily "occupation of land" and not control of air or sea, that ultimately assures power. Both air and sea "requires" land based ports, both sea ports and airports. The only other option is by a space based territory such as the moon. And China has already announced that they will establish a moon base.

Interestingly, the entire Silk Road program requires primarily China's workers, Chinese plans and engineering and Chinese materials to be used throughout.

Much of what has been completed in other countries connected are now "occupied" by those Chinese workers that "refused" to leave because they were needed to help maintain that road, because the local population were not trained to do so, or were poorly trained and incapable. That is forced "occupancy" in the name of necessity in the guise of foreign aid and joint benefit for globalization. That is no different than the S China Sea island fortresses built by China taking and occupying foreign territories.

(Does this not sound and look familiar as with Imperial Japan during WWII in some areas of the Asia Pacific? China has learned well...they do not use military force, they use money and control of their own cheap but well trained labor and commodities needed by those countries to penetrate in the name of the Silk Road.

But they also have an advantage. They have existing China Towns and large Chinese populations in almost every major city in every country along the way. They can "open" doors in those countries that other foreigners cannot.)

Since WWII, Japan's foreign aid has been to "train" the local population, "share" technology and allow the local people to grow. The Japanese crew are often "asked" and "requested" to remain and help. China too actually benefited from such Japanese aid till recently.

The two concepts and methods are totally contradictory.

Japan should NEVER join that system, but work independently.

@ PTownsend

It's probably too late for Japan to catch up.

Why? China asks Japan to join their initiative as they asked European countries before.

If the US shows it's an unreliable partner

It's not 'if' it's already a fact , see the Iran deal.

Japan will need to find different alliances.

That recently made a trade deal with the EU and are part of the TPP initiative.

@ Kaerimashita

Hmmm..... how exactly this will benefit an already fully developed economy like Japan is dubious. 

Logistically it's good to have an alternative for overseas connections. Last March the first train went from my hometown to Yiwu [Shanghai region]. I live in the EU part with it's 'fully developed' economy.

Japan was anyway never part of the old Silk Road trading network

Akie was so friendly to let you know that 'anyone with a little head would know that Japan was beneficiary of the ancient silk road'. That's right but not known by most people. I find it a curious remark by a person who didn't show much of 'having a little head' in other threads on this forum :)

New rail going all London but the containers have to be changed 12 times to another train because of rail gauge. One takes 17 days across ten countries on its 7,456-mile journey.

A containership needs a speed of almost 30 knots to proceed 11999 nautical miles in 17 days from Shanghai to Europe's largest port Rotterdam.

Those ships don't go that fast for more than one reason.

http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-shanghai,china/port-of-rotterdam,netherlands/

Imagine what future standardisation of rail gauge could do.

how exactly this will benefit an already fully developed economy like Japan is dubious.  

Surely, you mean "obvious" rather than "dubious." It can take over a month by sea to ship something to Europe, is very expensive, and may have to go through US controlled ports, where the US asserts increasingly aggressive economic and trade terms.

The Silk Road would cut shipping times and costs in half for Japan.

This is a good opportunity for Japan, and they should be on board.

17 day journey is still a hell of a lot quicker then the average 30+ days sending a container from Beijing to London by sea would take.

Japan's Right Winger's wont allow it to happen no matter whether it'd be the right choice or not.

I don’t think I want to be allied with China vs a lot of the World. not to mention they keep wishing death upon us. Gokai wo Maneku, you say you aren’t anti US, but most of your comments are.

Great for them.

17 day journey is still a hell of a lot quicker then the average 30+ days sending a container from Beijing to London by sea would take.

No. Over such a distance, the train costs much much more than the plane (12 hours) and uses more energy. Rail is competitive for 2000 km. Over 5000 km, that becomes disputable. From China to Europe, no way to cut costs to make it relevant, even if Elon Musk brings a revolutionary train concept. Then, boats are extremely smooth and safe (my company ships from Japan to Rotterdam all the time, we get one lost container by distance), no handling on the way, no mistakes... That doesn't mean the line is useless, but it would not serve from start to end.

The Yiwu-London Railway Line has been operating since Jan 2017. Second longest at 7,500 miles and the first place is the Yiwu-Madrid Railway Line at 8,000 miles.

Amusing, is this some kind of a contest. With the UK economy going down how cares about London anyway :) And Spain ...

It sounds like an interesting opportunity for Japan  . . . like the ancient Silk Road which connected the East and West . . . .

@ coskuri

No. Over such a distance, the train costs much much more than the plane (12 hours) and uses more energy. Rail is competitive for 2000 km. Over 5000 km, that becomes disputable. From China to Europe, no way to cut costs to make it relevant, even if Elon Musk brings a revolutionary train concept. Then, boats are extremely smooth and safe (my company ships from Japan to Rotterdam all the time, we get one lost container by distance), no handling on the way, no mistakes... That doesn't mean the line is useless, but it would not serve from start to end.

A ship, excuse me 'boat', is of course cheaper than a train per container but a a train with containers filled with products that might require more speed could be a good alternative option. So far we didn't hear of container robberies and it's interesting how this initiative will develop.

Some wouldn't bet on container shipping in the future as 3D printing is still in its infancy but that will be more disrupting in future manufacturing.

You probably know this report:

https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/industries/travel%20transport%20and%20logistics/our%20insights/how%20container%20shipping%20could%20reinvent%20itself%20for%20the%20digital%20age/container-shipping-the-next-50-years-103017.ashx

"We'll join,but only if they promise not to bake any birthday cakes that are in the shape of disputed rocks in the sea."

China to Japan: "Give us your money."

Every path has its puddle. The path of a liar is short. And every gold rush who get the profit first is who has the tools. People think Silk Road is only by land but there's another road by sea where basically is the Indian Sea, or another in summer the nearest North Pole Sea Road the nearest on this Eurasia continent. Japan may be a turtle at the startline but can be getting paces knowing the path beyond political barriers. Future prospective profits to next generations better join than doing nothing staying in lukewarm water, isolated of endless blablabla.

I don't trust in U.S. Government however I would like to ask to people of Tibet and Uyghur they really think about PRC ?

Udondashi, China is motherland and ancestors.

Alexandre T. Ishii, even birds know that there is no hope in Japan. Get it ?

The crested ibis (Nipponia nippon), also known as the Japanese crested ibis or Toki(トキ), variously written in kanji as 朱鷺, 鴇, 鵇, 鴾, or 桃花鳥, and written in hanzi as 朱䴉 or 朱鷺, is a large (up to 78.5 cm (30.9 in) long), white-plumaged ibis of pine forests. Its head is partially bare, showing red skin, and it has a dense crest of white plumes on the nape. This species is the only member of the genusNipponia.

At one time, the crested ibis was widespread in Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan, and Russia. It has now disappeared from most of its former range. The last wild crested ibis in Japan died in October 2003.

Japan never won anything making friendship with china, nothing !

Nippon needs to take the long view and not be stuck in the past. China is the future for Nippon, while the USA is the past and fading present.

Sinosphere is increasing its influence, right along with Russosphere. Both of those civilizations are attempting undermine the structures of Anglosphere, and the Russians have had success in just that (the 2016 American elections) and China is asserting itself in Australian, British, Canadian, Kiwi and American political systems, universities, and media markets.. No one knows what will happen, but one thing is for sure, events won't play out in a linear fashion, the way we expect them to. Who will Japan side with in the coming decades?

About 200 years ago Napoleon said “China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will move the world.” We are the generation in which this prophecy is going to be fulfilled.

@ Dirk T

Sinosphere is increasing its influence, right along with Russosphere. Both of those civilizations are attempting undermine the structures of Anglosphere, and the Russians have had success in just that (the 2016 American elections) and China is asserting itself in Australian, British, Canadian, Kiwi and American political systems, universities, and media markets.. No one knows what will happen, but one thing is for sure, events won't play out in a linear fashion, the way we expect them to. Who will Japan side with in the coming decades?

Getting scared? When Japan is smart they will side the continental Eurosphere to use your terminology. First they have to deal with the US military umbrella and make efforts to stand on their own feet.

Think of myself as being pro Nippon and not pro China nor pro USA. Trump believes in merchanism. In other words the other nations of the world must lose for the USA to win. Merchanism will destroy the USA's relations with other nations. Trump is going to isolate the USA from the rest of the world. Thus Nippon needs to be a part of the Silk Road.

Japan never won anything making friendship with china, nothing !

Well, except pottery, religion, tea, noodle, tofu and 90% of their traditional culture.

The correct spelling is Mercantilism.

If it makes financial sense to get involved in individual projects, then consider it, but in reality what would OBOR do for Japan itself? I fail to see any call for OBOR type projects within Japan itself, which means you are joining China on foreign projects, most likely under their control. Just keep in mind, its primarily an exercise in promoting Chinese exports. Its not done out of the kindness of the heart for the developing world. And we have already seen, if poor countries can't pay back, then the asset gets handed over to China. Does Japan want to be involved in that? Just be cautious, while maintaining an open mind.

Getting scared? When Japan is smart they will side the continental Eurosphere to use your terminology. First they have to deal with the US military umbrella and make efforts to stand on their own feet.

Until Germany starts paying its fair share for defense there is absolutely zero chance of that happening. Without Europe's largest and most central economy injecting many billions of dollars its a dead duck. And unless the relationship changes, massively, between Europe and Russia, then they simple can't afford to sacrifice relations with the U.S. Its possible Russia/Europe relations improve and I certainly hope so. In my mind, Russia is a European country, but if it means ceding Eastern Europe to some new USSR by force, its not going to happen.

This large island is thankfully removed from the turbulence of the northern hemisphere and we will continue as a sovereign nation state, not part of any major group, not even ASEAN, and simply take advantage of all opportunities, east and west, wherever they arise and in the national interest.

The uniqueness (along with N.Z) of being a Western liberal democracy located in Asia offers the advantage of being able to take advantage of Asian growth, while also maintaining our hard earned freedom and liberty.

Ancient Silk Road was the biggest show of democracy and freedom and the rule of laws to the people who never learned what the East is about.

Ancient Silk Road was the biggest show of democracy and freedom and the rule of laws to the people who never learned what the East is about.

LOL. Perhaps in ancient times, I don't know, but I do know its 2018.

China doesn't do democracy or freedom. It is the self appointed proponent of modern 21st century cultural marxism. They admit as much. Its a totalitarian surveillance state intent on crushing anything that doesn't fit into their tidy view of what Chinese culture should be about and how Chinese people should behave.

So much so, they will have no problem potentially killing millions of other ethnic Chinese in Taiwan, simply because they cannot tolerate a handful of Chinese living under a democratic model. The audacity of 23 million Taiwanese thinking they can brake the mold. Unreal!

Yeah, Beijing is really down with democracy, freedom and liberty!!!

If a govt of the people, by the people, for the people is not democracy, then what is it ?

How do you know its a government for the people, when there are no universal direct voting rights?

Of the 1.3 billion Chinese in mainland China, how many directly vote for their elected representatives?

If they don't have universal suffrage, its not a democracy, age limits withstanding.

Your potential killing millions is your potential thinking. How many people did Australia kill to be a Western liberal democracy in Australia ? the western Australians should go back to their west. Australia is not their home at all.

Beijing has stated that if Taiwan refuses the one China policy in action, if they seek independence, they reserve the right to invade. They have made that crystal clear of late. That will involve killing a lot of people and those people will be ethnic Chinese. Nice hey? What a charming bunch of people.

The colonization of this country killed thousands of indigenous Australians. Figures vary. From 1788 to 1920, so 132 years, its put at about 190,000. Its horrific. In terms of European Australians going back to their home, well I think that horse has bolted, considering 40% of Australians were not born in Australia and an increasing number are Asian. Not only that, if we all left, there would be 700,000 indigenous Australians left and to be completely honest, I'm not convinced the entire culture would not collapse.

And btw, two wrongs don't make a right. What happened in Australia, doesn't mean the act of China invading Taiwan is any less worse. Could see 200,000 dead in a week, not 132 years.

Matt Hartwell, there are many forms of vote. Your paper vote is your western thing. In ancient China, officials were elected through very strict exams, no cheat and corrupt at all. You can't write a name on the paper, you have write a thesis. Now China has the most populated people on the planet and they want a peaceful world. That is the vote, not a paper vote. Taiwan is recognized by the world to be a part of China. Taiwan people are Chinese people. 90% Chinese people want a united China and reject separation of Taiwan. That is democratic vote by 1.3 billion people. Where is a legal basis and democratic basis for an independent Taiwan, by your western standard ?

In ancient China, officials were elected through very strict exams, no cheat and corrupt at all.

Why refer to ancient China? Its irrelevant. Its 2018 and you know, well and good, that China is not a democracy. No amount of convulsion is going to change that fact. Now, whether a country with such a large population could have a democracy is open to question. India of course has almost the same population and in few will have more people and while they certainly have violence, terrible violence against women in particular, its mostly based around caste and class, not around politics, although they do have maoist insurgence and of course problems with various Muslim groups. India is now turning a major corner after many years in the wilderness.

Taiwan is recognized by the world to be a part of China. Taiwan people are Chinese people. 90% Chinese people want a united China and reject separation of Taiwan. That is democratic vote by 1.3 billion people. Where is a legal basis and democratic basis for an independent Taiwan, by your western standard ?

The only reason its recognized by the world as part of China is to gain access to the Chinese market. If China wasn't so anti-democratic and let Taiwan govern itself, nobody in the West would make the announcement that Taiwan is part of China. Its China twisting everybodies arm. Yes Taiwanese people are ethnic Chinese, mostly from one area. They do have a distinct language however. The democratic basis is that 23 million people live under a democracy and in the last election, they elected somebody that wants Taiwan to maintain that democracy. And again, I keep saying this, China does NOT have universal voting rights. We have absolutely no clue that 1.3 billion mainland Chinese are bothered by Taiwanese independence or not. You are relying completely on Beijing for that assumption. Has there ever been a free and fair referendum on the matter? No.

Matt Hartwell, today's China is much more strict in choosing officials. It is based on performance, not on thesis. You can't be a Chinese president without any governance skills. Is China's way a democratic way? It is much more democratic than India's way, in a sense that you have to be truly trusted by true majority people.

China has laws to protect Taiwan. Taiwan is recognized as a part of China is not because Chinese market. It is based on history, fact, law and genetics.

*Getting scared? When Japan is smart they will side the continental Eurosphere to use your terminology.* First they have to deal with the US military umbrella and make efforts to stand on their own feet.

Until Germany starts paying its fair share for defense there is absolutely zero chance of that happening. Without Europe's largest and most central economy injecting many billions of dollars its a dead duck. And unless the relationship changes, massively, between Europe and Russia, then they simple can't afford to sacrifice relations with the U.S. Its possible Russia/Europe relations improve and I certainly hope so. In my mind, Russia is a European country, but if it means ceding Eastern Europe to some new USSR by force, its not going to happen.

'make efforts to stand on their own feet' means a constitution change in Japan and paying the 2% or more of the GDP fee for all European NATO members. Being part of NATO means an alliance with the US. In Japan and in the involved European countries there's still resistance among politicians and the population against the constitution change or paying more contribution to the NATO. Germany and other members decided to spend more on defence but they won't reach the demanded 2%.

Russia is an Eurasian country with 80% ethnic Russians among all kind of minority tribes. Despite the current sanctions Gazprom is selling its gas, Western MNC's are doing business and running plants within Russia and is the supply chain to Western European RLD's intact.

The relationship with Russia can improve but not in the foreseeable future. Geopolitical issues as well as some 'small' issues like the aftermath of a shot down airliner have to be dealed with.

Being European goes beyond being part of the European geography. The struggle of the Eastern Orthodox Church with Rome is symbolic for the distrust between 'East' and 'West'.

Most Russians love strong leaders and a minority will dream about democracy for generations to come.

China is much more strict in choosing officials. It is based on performance, not on thesis. You can't be a Chinese president without any governance skills. Is China's way a democratic way? It is much more democratic than India's way, in a sense that you have to be truly trusted by true majority people.

How do you know the Chinese president is trusted without universal suffrage? You do realize that democracy requires regular voting. You can't just deem that this individual is trusted, presume they are trusted. That's not how it works. India is a democracy. China isn't. There is no way this can be argued against. Its a waste of time.

 Taiwan is recognized as a part of China is not because Chinese market. It is based on history, fact, law and genetics.

The Taiwanese, by a majority, elected a leader that favors the status quo. That indicates to me that Taiwan wants to retain its independence while still pursuing good relations with China. I see no reason why 23 million individuals do not have the right to determine their own future. I see no reason why Beijing should decree what is best for them, when clearly, they prefer something else.

Make efforts to stand on their own feet' means a constitution change in Japan and paying the 2% or more of the GDP fee for all European NATO members. Being part of NATO means an alliance with the US. In Japan and in the involved European countries there's still resistance among politicians and the population against the constitution change or paying more contribution to the NATO. Germany and other members decided to spend more on defence but they won't reach the demanded 2%.

I see no reason why, 70 years after the end of WW2 and with a Europe that is just as wealthy as the United States, that America must still pay the majority of funding for NATO and contribute by far and away the majority of hardware. The status quo is deeply unfair to the United States. It cannot be denied. Trump has every right to ask for it to be changed. Some countries are gradually coming up to the mark. There has been an improvement. But Europe's largest economy refuses to play their role and contribute a fair share. They are freeloading on the rest of Europe and the U.S. Its already apparent that the U.S see's France as the defacto leader of Europe, not Germany. Even after Trump, that stance will continue. Macron has done well to elevate France's profile in recent times, not just with the U.S, but also with India and Australia.

Russia is an Eurasian country with 80% ethnic Russians among all kind of minority tribes. Despite the current sanctions Gazprom is selling its gas, Western MNC's are doing business and running plants within Russia and is the supply chain to Western European RLD's intact.

The relationship with Russia can improve but not in the foreseeable future. Geopolitical issues as well as some 'small' issues like the aftermath of a shot down airliner have to be dealed with.

Being European goes beyond being part of the European geography. The struggle of the Eastern Orthodox Church with Rome is symbolic for the distrust between 'East' and 'West'.

Most Russians love strong leaders and a minority will dream about democracy for generations to come.

Let's hope that Russia and Europe can find peace, then this whole NATO business may no longer be needed. Although with China the way it is, I would simply see the focus switching from Russia to China.

Europe of course has its own problems, more populism on the one hand and Europe seriously needing to inject more transparency, become more visibly democratic and more responsive to the needs of member states. What is currently happening in Italy is going to be interesting, especially if they are serious about their immigration policy.

Let's hope that Russia and Europe can find peace, then this whole NATO business may no longer be needed. Although with China the way it is, I would simply see the focus switching from Russia to China.

You may hope as much as you want but it will not happen in your life :)

With China there's only the matter of 'level playing field' and efforts to be made by the Chinese with IP. The position of Europe is way better than the US because of the strong manufacturing industry. And there's still a lot to develop and invest in the Eastern and Southern territories of the EU.

with a Europe that is just as wealthy as the United States, that America must still pay the majority of funding for NATO and contribute by far and away the majority of hardware. The status quo is deeply unfair to the United States.

I stated several times on this forum that the other NATO members should contribute the 2% of the GDP but Europe [ the EU ] is not as wealthy as the US. Learn about the figures. The US produces with 320 million peeps almost the same as the 500 million of the EU.

On hardware: the military industrial complex of the US always divided European NATO members where to buy their hardware. Pax Americana has a price.

But Europe's largest economy refuses to play their role and contribute a fair share. 

 They are freeloading on the rest of Europe and the U.S. Its already apparent that the U.S see's France as the defacto leader of Europe, not Germany. Even after Trump, that stance will continue. Macron has done well to elevate France's profile in recent times,

Germany is the largest creditor within the EU and are together with other net paying EU members probably paying for the NATO contribution of the nett receiving EU members as well. You've no clue of what happens in the EU. Macron is with May the preferred lapdog of the Donald but the US knows exactly who's in charge.

Here some proof of European heritage in China:

https://youtu.be/OLZf0jfCIoU

According to the World Fact Book of the CIA.

According to IMF, Worldbank & United Nations it's by all 1. the USA 2. The EU 3. China.

I think that the World Fact Book gives a better view on the state of an economy as they use Purchasing Power Parity [PPP] than the other institutions.

India on fourth place before Japan, yep.