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Chinese vessels enter Japan's waters near Senkakus for 2nd straight day

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Okinawan view on Senkakus/Diaoyudaos issue

Some say that the Senkakus/Diaoyudaos were ceded to Japan by China’s Qing dynasty in the Treaty of Shimonoski as a result of the First Sino-Japanese War. They then argue that since Japan accepted the terms of unconditional surrender stipulated in the Cairo Declaration, it should observe these terms and fulfil its obligation.

Japan was automatically stripped of Manchuria, Taiwan, Korea, the Pescadores and other islands in the South China Sea and the Pacific. The Ryukyu Islands, including the Senkakus/Diaoyudaos, were separated from Japan and put under US trusteeship.

Why weren't the Senkakus/Diaoyudaos returned to China when Taiwan was restored? Apparently, they were not considered spoils of war Japan took by force.

The international community took the post-World War II regime for granted. Even the CCP that had assumed power in Beijing in 1949 kept acknowledging the “status quo” until 1971.

In the Jan. 8, 1953, edition of the People’s Daily, an article described the island chain stretching between Kyushu and Taiwan and called an island group in question “the Senkaku Islands.”

An article was discovered among Chinese government archives in December 2012 and was reported to describe the Senkakus as part of the Ryukyu Islands, which were a geo-political entity at the time.

The Treaty of Taipei signed on April 28, 1952, stipulates that Japan renounced all rights to Taiwan, Penghu, the Spratly Islands (Nansha Islands, 南沙群島) and the Paracel Islands (Xisha Islands, 西沙群島), over which Japan no longer had any jurisdiction, but it left out the Senkakus/Diaoyudaos.

These documents and historical evidence seem to argue against China's current claim that the Senkakus/Diaoyudaos have been China's sovereign territory since ancient times.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This may prove illustrative of the issue:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/6/us-ship-sails-near-chinese-controlled-paracel-islands

Um...

Do you understand that is a separate matter? China is trying to claim all of the South China Sea as sovereign Chinese territory. It isn't and never has been. I have sailed those seas many times. A nation's territorial seas end 12 nautical miles from their coastline. Their EEZ ends 200 nautical miles from their coastline. China is trying to assert sovereignty over all of the SCS and it's resources in clear violation of centuries old law of the sea. The US sails there to show first off that Chinas claims are illegal and second, unenforceable. You might recall that America's first war as a new nation was over navigational rights in the Mediterranean Sea. The US fought two campaigns against the Barbary Pirates, the first of the two was fought alongside the Swedes who likewise objected to the practices of the Barbary Pirates and were willing to fight them to stop their piracy and kidnapping of ships crews to held as hostages or to be sold as slaves.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Based on the above argument, I don't want to claim the Senkaku Islands belong to Okinawa and hence Japan. But I can definitely say China's claim of sovereignty over these barren islands is groundless and their coast guard ships' activities in the Senkaku waters are against justice, common sense and international law.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Okinawa, or the Ryukyu Islands including the Amami Islands, was separated from Japan and put under direct U.S. administration together with the Senkakus and the Daito Islands until 1972.

Considered they were not part of Japan proper, thereby being put under the direct U.S. administration, were also the Tokara island group located south of Kagoshima Prefecture, Kyushu. They were returned to Japan in 1952. 

The Amami Islands were returned one year later, in 1953. The Bonin Islands were returned in 1968. Okinawa was returned in 1972 albeit U.S. bases remaining firm and intact. On paper, the U.S. still retains right to use Kubajima (黄尾嶼) in the Senkakus as an aerial target and range.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't think we have any right to claim those islands as our own. Historically they belong to China. I wish we'd just let it drop to be honest.

That is your opinion. My opinion is that they are legally Japanese. Japan administers these islands given to them by America who was the previous administrators of them after WWII. History has nothing to do with it.

Nations and borders have always changed through history. The current borders, taking administration into account show the Islands as in Japanese hands. If China wants them they must either negotiate to purchase them from Japan or negotiate some other deal acceptable to Japan to take them over. What they can not do is simply claim them and expect them to be Chinese in the eyes of the world.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Samit Basu,

(1)Any evidence the Diaoyu Islands were part of Taiwan for 500 years? When did Taiwan become a Han Chinese dominion? If you are talking about stone-age people migrating all the way from Micronesia to Taiwan, to the Ryukyu Archipelago and finally to Japan proper, that's completely off the topic here.

 (2) True, there's the strong "Kuroshio" current in the Senkaku waters flowing from south to north, making it very difficult for small sailboats to navigate in the direction of south. But the Senkaku waters were part of the Fuchuan-Ryukyu sea lane for hundreds of years on which, history tells, Ryukyuan navigators and traders navigated more than 200 times to and from the Chinese mainland. Apparently, they made better use of seasonal winds when they navigated.

(3) Japan took possession of Taiwan in 1895 as the result of the Sino-Japanese War whereas the no-man's land Senkakus were amalgamated into Japan in 1896 by due process in consonant with international law.

(4) Yes, Japan accepted unconditional surrender in 1945 and all the territories it took by force in the past were automatically returned to their legitimate owners. Okinawa or the Ryukyu Islands was separated from Japan and put under direct U.S. administration together with the Senkakus.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

This may prove illustrative of the issue:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/6/us-ship-sails-near-chinese-controlled-paracel-islands

Um...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

They want to see where the red line is. Show them. Hull one of their boats.

Unfortunately that is the truth. China will keep escalating the intrusions into Japanese waters until they either land troops on the islands or the Japanese shoot up a couple of their ships, including the intruding fishing boats. Don't have to sink them. Just some well placed 20-30 mm rounds in their hulls and superstructures. Or maybe let an A-10 strafe one with that big 30 mm gun it has. They won't come back if they know the Japanese and Americans are willing to shoot. And unfortunately that is the one and only thing that will stop the current CCP leadership, the assured use of force and loss of their assets.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If Japan decided for "Self Defense purposes" to deploy N capabilities I'm sure they already have -

Most military analysts are of the opinion that Japan is what is termed a "Threshold Country" Japan has mastered the entire nuclear fuel cycle, has working enrichment facilities and has a vast stockpile of enriched fissile material. They could have a workable nuclear arsenal in about a year if they were determined to do so. Japan was actually pretty close by the end of WWII. Having said that Japan is probably so resistant to nuclear weapons they would never use then even if Japan's survival as a nation and a people were at stake.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Coast guard vessels are not warships.

Yes they are. The are almost always armed, sometimes even with air defense missiles, ASW torpedos and sonars. US Coast Guard Cutters have fought in every US war since the formation of the Revenue Marine (their former name) by Ben Franklin under the Treasury Department (their original job was capturing or sinking smuggler's vessels). Some Chinese Coast Guard ships are former PLA destroyers and frigates.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan spends all of that money on U.S. Forces in Japan but they wont even help Japan keep Chinese ships out of Japan's territorial waters. 

For the US to act on Japan's behalf the Japanese PM would have to do two things. Number one, make a determination that Japan was prepared to use force against Chinese vessels entering Japanese waters off the Sankakus, and number two formally invoke the defense treaty to ask for US help. The US cannot just attack these Chinese vessels of their own volition without a formal request from Japan, and there would have to be some Japanese forces on the line too. It can't just be US forces doing the heavy lifting while the Japanese Maritime Safety Agency hangs out in the background. The PM and Diet better get busy!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No, but they are sufficiently equipped to deal with other ships with some amount of force. By the way, have you ever seen what a USCG medium endurance cutter looks like?

Before or after being hit with a short range ship-to-ship missile? Ya actually have to give some personal thought and study to the idea of war and what it really means to everyone involved, particularly since WWII and the 'Allies' decision that carpet bombing innocent civilians was a good idea which was expressed in full color in Vietnam and now everywhere. War ain't just for 'soljers' no more, it's for us all and looking forward to "gittin' them no good [insert designated victims] for gawd and country"!! is how we get there to where the remains of a nation have nothing left but the mourning of their children, their parents, all that was good...

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

As America's 'agent' on China's doorstep, Nihon must accept that, when China COPIES American behavior, China will be addressing it to America but through Nihon. The originator and instigator of many such 'incursions' itself, America has put Nihon in the middle of America's relentless competition with China and, here, the Chinese are simply saying, "How do YOU like it?" America twits China, China twits Japan. Not too difficult to see if thoughts of warrior glory (for others, of course) do not cloud your sanity. It's so much easier for us to yell "Kill" than it is to ask "Why"? Do these kinds of behaviors of China, America, of any of us seem sane? Pushing people to arouse their hostility? Like America did to Japan in June of 1941 with a naval blockade and oil import embargo? How'd that turn out...?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Coast guard vessels are not warships.

No, but they are sufficiently equipped to deal with other ships with some amount of force. By the way, have you ever seen what a USCG medium endurance cutter looks like?

As many people here have already stated, Japan needs to start asserting themselves here. If shots have to be fired across the bow to send those vessels away, do it. If a foreign vessel chooses to play it like a mule and disobey direct orders by sitting there, then ram it. Couldn't care less about image when those foreign vessels are the ones doing illegal business in the first place.

For the record, Argentines, Indonesians and South Koreans have used weaponry Chinese fishing boats before. The Vietnamese went even as far as to ram a Chinese coast guard ship just last year.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Normal neighbours sit down around a table and discuss it sensibly.

Normal neighbors dont send warships and warplanes into areas administered by other nations because they dont get anywhere with negotiations.

Coast guard vessels are not warships.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Tokyo knows that the Tiayutai/Senkaku/DYT isles are not inherently part of Japan.

That's the reason why it's uninhabited and without any token military presence.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The main problem is that China has recently escalated their policy with the authority to use live weapons in defence of what they perceive as "their territory" -

I have not read (and hence am not sufficiently qualified to render anything but an opinion) what the CCP's opinion is of "their territory")

I also have not read Mein Kampf

But what I do feel is certain - is that the CCP's China have embarked on a territorial grab which they have "legitimized" rather like the annexation of the Sudatenland - and their pushing it...

Now - Okinawa has more US military than China would be willing to f-with - and it's pointless to keep asking successive US administrations in the Senkakus fall under the joint US/Japan defense alliance -

While it is true - that Japan is the only country in history to suffer an atomic weapons attack - and I don't wish to discuss the legitimacy of those attacks - no on would deny they were devastating. The world watched the devastation that occurred in Japan. That created the cold war - because it no one was willing to suffer what Japan had suffered (though that would be insignificant by today's atomic weapon's capabilities)

What we do know is N. Korea likes rattling their N sabre - and China rattling all their sabres...

If Japan decided for "Self Defense purposes" to deploy N capabilities I'm sure they already have -

Then perhaps the whole "dear Mr. President...will you protect the Senkakus?" and "dear Mr. President ... will you help us against. N. Korea" - would be more like "dear Mr. Japanese PM - would you help us be a credible deterrent against CCP and N. K. aggression - together with the combined US/Japan forces - would tell the CCP and N.K. - this ain't no cry baby no more - this is Japan - a power in the Pacific - behave yourselves

1 ( +4 / -3 )

cruised in the so-called contiguous zone just outside Japan's territorial waters near the Senkakus, it said.

Hmm, title says they entered Japan's waters

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@theFu

Where are the Taiwanese Coast Guard in all of this?

Too busy dealing with Chinese onslaught at this very moment.

Kinda ironic since the Republic of China(Taiwan) is the legal owner of Diaoyu Islands. China claims the Diaoyu Islands as the successor state of the Republic of China.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Where are the Taiwanese Coast Guard in all of this?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@GdTokyo

They want to see where the red line is. Show them. Hull one of their boats.

No, Chinese want the Japanese to open fire first, so that they can launch a full-scale military operation to recover the islands.

@tokyo-star

they need to be apprehended by japanese ships

1) What, you think Japanese say hands up and Chinese will comply?

2) To "apprehend", Japanese must open fire.

3) But that's exactly what China wants Japan to do.

@Peeping_Tom

If you've been paying attention China sends ONLY coast guard ships

This is the Chinese way of asserting their territorial claims. No need to send warships since the Diaoyu Islands are Chinese territories under Chinese law.

@voiceofokinawa

Was Chen Kan really the first discoverer in history of the deserted islands and so named them as such?

1) Diaoyu Islands are periphery islands of Taiwan and a rich fishing ground for 500 years for Taiwanese fishermen.

2) It's very difficult to reach the Diaoyu Islands from Okinawa with sail boats due to the Kuroshio current dividing Okinawa and Diaoyu Islands. It's a smooth sailing from Taiwan, however. This is why Meiji Japanese government didn't know about Diaoyu Islands' existence until they discovered them on the British navigation chart named "Pinnacles Islands" and translated into Japanese, "Senkaku(Pinnacles) Islands".

3) Japan took possession of the Diaoyu Islands as a part of Taiwan following the Sino-Japanese War.

4) Japan agreed to return Taiwan, and the Diaoyu Islands, as the condition of accepting surrender.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Normal neighbours sit down around a table and discuss it sensibly.

Normal neighbors dont send warships and warplanes into areas administered by other nations because they dont get anywhere with negotiations.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

They want to see where the red line is. Show them. Hull one of their boats.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Normal neighbours sit down around a table and discuss it sensibly.

one of these neighbors is not normal, take a guess

Are you suggesting the Japanese navy to strike at the Chinese coast guard?!

If you've been paying attention China sends ONLY coast guard ships, never PLAN ships into those areas.

i agree that bullets and shells won't work, regardless of how low china's integrity has dropped over the past year or two. if they are coast guard ships, they need to be apprehended by japanese ships and made an example of---the only way to make a chinese apologise is to embarrass the hell out of them on the international stage. of course they will cry foul and squirm...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

"remember that firstly, Japan does not have the cojones to do that and secondly the U.S. would never sanction any action for Japan to take that might drag the U.S. into a war with China."

Are you suggesting the Japanese navy to strike at the Chinese coast guard?!

If you've been paying attention China sends ONLY coast guard ships, never PLAN ships into those areas.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

China claims the Senkaku Islands, which they call the Diaoyudaos, have been an integral part of China since ancient times. If so, then China has every right to patrol the waters there, threatening trespassing Japanese fishing boats off the area. Probably, their claim to the islands is based on Chen Kan (1489-1538)'s historic document called "Shi Ryukyu Roku" (Chinese Royal Emissary to Ryukyu's Record). In the document, Chen Kan calls the largest island in the island chain "Diaoyudao (fishing island)".  

Was Chen Kan really the first discoverer in history of the deserted islands and so named them as such?

Note, however, that Ishigaki islanders had called it "Iigun Jima" (fish-spear island) and Ryukyu navigators and traders called it "Yukun (or Yokon)". Yukun can be analyzed as iyu+kun, where the first element iyu means "fish" and the second element kun is an affix usually attached to a place name.

There were a number of Ryukyu navigators and pilots aboard the same tributary ship as Chen Kan was on board. So Chen Kan must have learned a lot from Ryukyu navigators about the waterway. It's certain that he translated names of these islands from the Ryukyuan vernacular into Chinese.

If this is so, then China can't claim their forefathers discovered the Senkakus first whereby the Senkakus/Diaoyudaos are China's sovereign territory historically and so they have every right to patrol the waters.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This little issue is just not worth having a fit about, let alone talk of torpedo's and war.

Normal neighbours sit down around a table and discuss it sensibly.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Japan spends all of that money on U.S. Forces in Japan but they wont even help Japan keep Chinese ships out of Japan's territorial waters. If the Senkaku Islands fall under the U.S. Japan Security Agreement then at the least, the U.S. should be doing joint patrols with Japan around those islands. All of those people calling for Japan to take military action against China have to remember that firstly, Japan does not have the cojones to do that and secondly the U.S. would never sanction any action for Japan to take that might drag the U.S. into a war with China.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Japan needs to take a page out of India's border clash and put an end to it head to head. No seems to have heard of further aggression moves in India sovereign China claimed borders since that day have they.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Solutions to China in 2021 and beyond:

-Need to keep up with China's military rise.

Our economy needs to rise again, grow again to handle and balance China.

-Energy security is key for Japan, all options should be on the table to achieve energy independence.

-Force South Korea a rich nation, strong military, mandatory military service to join Quad Alliance and take responsibility to balance China in East Asia. (It's not just about North Korea).

-Expand the TTP and Quad Alliance to include more nations, keep China in check.

-Continue to offer an alternative to Chinese money and influence by investing ourselves or helping poorer nations.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

China is to the 21sr century what Nazi Germany was in the 1930s and 40s.

They are trying to test the limits of our patience and silence just encourages them.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Just do the same virus game... Blow that ships away with torpedoes and then just publish an unforeseeable torpedo epidemic, something still not explainable made the torpedoes suddenly release themselves and auto-aim onto nearby ships. It’s nobody’s fault, just a Covid-like naturally evolved catastrophes and all efforts are done to work on a vaccine. lol

I’m not sure the ‘lol’ at the end is real or not.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sailing near their islands. How dare they.

Sailing near Japan's islands. How dare they.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Just do the same virus game... Blow that ships away with torpedoes and then just publish an unforeseeable torpedo epidemic, something still not explainable made the torpedoes suddenly release themselves and auto-aim onto nearby ships. It’s nobody’s fault, just a Covid-like naturally evolved catastrophes and all efforts are done to work on a vaccine. lol

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Stop buying from China.

Stop investing in China.

Stop feeding the monster!

Simples!

5 ( +10 / -5 )

China has become a bad world citizen under Xi. China uses bullying tactics to get its way in all matters political, territorial or otherwise. Although the US is anything but a saint, China makes them look good by comparison. People who are not CCP fan boys would much prefer the American way than the new Chinese way.

Freedom and a free way of life are once again being challenged by those who would force their will upon the world. Make no mistake, if this continues it will only end one way. A fight for freedom will again ravage the world and pit country against country proving that nothing has been learned by the world from the two world wars of the past century. Individuals gain power over vast armies and use them to get their way against the will of those they wish to rule. They live as kings while others fight in their name and their people are subjected to horrendous years of torment, deprivation and despair.

Surely in this enlightened age we are beyond such horrors. Those words are said each time war approaches and is still a valid comment today. Are we beyond such treatment of each other or is it just another generations time to fight to determine the following century's leaders and direction the world will head in?

At some point, we must wise up and understand differences of opinion need not lead to war. Are we intelligent enough to save our species and indeed our world for ourselves and the future.

Time to wise up and find an alternative to war.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

This following article was also found on. BBC news.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55651578

This article was found on the BBC news and it is found to be shocking to read about these atrocities. The families that has experienced this heartache must know that other people in the world also feel sorry for them what happened and it it should and never must happen again.

It shocking to see the atrocities being done by the north korean oppressive government.

It clear that other countries are in cahoots with them even changing street names to these dictators and sponsoring them with illegal trading. We must also not forget that they indoctrinated other people in other countries with their ideas of corruption and so on which are being practised by some governments. But be assured the wheel will eventually turn.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

You mean waters claimed both by Japan and China as their own?

No, administered by Japan. china claims anything and everything when it suits them, means sweet F.A. when it comes to actual ownership.

Give China one more warning to stop these invasions, then action by MSDF will be necessary.

China is pushing and pushing, trying to get others (in this case Japan, or Taiwan in the case of constant jet incursions) to fire the first shot and then they will cry racism, dirty play, unfair tactics, violating traditional history or whatever else they have in their dirty little red play book.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Gambare Nippon:

Give China one more warning to stop these invasions, then action by MSDF will be necessary.

How many times have I heard that!

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Outrageous and menacing behaviour by Communist China to invade Japanese territorial waters. The PRC Navy is clearly trying to test Japan out.

Make no mistake - Japan will never, ever back down. Give China one more warning to stop these invasions, then action by MSDF will be necessary.

0 ( +13 / -13 )

China just can’t stop can they. How much do they want to push the rest of the world?

10 ( +19 / -9 )

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