politics

Gov't rejects ¥20 mil savings estimate for those living to 95

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Thanks for posting that link Cleo.

Interesting that they only budget 13,000yen or so per month for housing costs, but I guess that indicates that most people over 60 own a home outright. If you don't, that will skew things quite a bit. Otherwise though, it seems like a reasonable image of what you might need in retirement. Not sure what Aso has his panties in a bunch over.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

60 to 95. Wow that's a long time to be sitting on welfare

The old age pension is not welfare. It's what people have paid in and are entitled to.

Apart from the full-time stay-at-home housewives who pay nothing in and yet get just as much out as working women who have paid in in full to the kokumin nenkin.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Fraud finance is new normal in Japan

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The chart is all that is needed

Your wish is my command.

https://www.fsa.go.jp/singi/singi_kinyu/market_wg/siryou/20190412/02.pdf

The chart showing estimated income and expenditure for a married couple aged 60 and 65 living only on the pension is shown at the bottom of P24.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Social security / public pensions are meant as a safety net. If you have to count on it to live, lots of luck to you. The amount that you will receive will diminish over time as more people dip into the pool. I don’t know what types of assets the pension system invests in (or allowed to invest in) but assume it’s mostly Japanese government debt. Thank god that the inflation rate is low for now.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

60 to 95. Wow that's a long time to be sitting on welfare. I don't mind if they change retirement to 65. I'll be working till I die.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Pls present a correct chart and stop fighting. The chart is all that is needed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Where do these figures come from?

Averages, I suppose. Which means they don't really fit anyone's actual circumstances.

If you rent, you will need more money than if you own your own home (hopefully the mortgage is paid off before retirement).

Depending on where you live, transport might be a greater or smaller expense.

Food costs vary greatly. Not having to buy meat, and having an allotment for veggies, cuts quite a bit off our food bill. Having critters of varying sizes adds to it. (Don't tell me 'The critters are not necessary' - they're family, non-negotiable).

Various medical conditions can eat into finances.

Everyone's circumstances are different, but the basic pension should cover the absolute basics of daily life.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Taro Aso is almost 80 years old, throwing BS all around and still works? why doesn't he just retire?

Where is the generation switch in Japanese politics? I don't get why they don't elect younger candidates...

Of course everyone now is panicking because something "inconvenient" has been said right before elections, and if people notice it, the Party will lose face (again).

The problem is that no matter how many scandals the Party faces, everyone will vote for them again because "that's what we always did and it worked out so far".

I may be pessimistic, but I don't see a lot of propensity to change in Japanese people.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A retired couple need at least ¥3 million per year. A married couple's pension is a little more than half of that around ¥1.8 million.

Where do these figures come from? Even assuming these were correct, this would indicate a 100,000 shortfall per month,.

Meanwhile, the report states there would be 50,000yen shortfall per month. What are the assumptions to get to that figure?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I wonder what'll happen to my contributions when I get old and not living here in Japan.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Aso, Japan's biggest scumbag strikes again!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I read an article this morning saying Japan's national debt is now at ¥1.1 quadrillion yen ($10 trillion) and that last year it took 95% of the Japanese government's tax revenue to service this debt and to pay for Social Security. With only 5% left to pay for everything else that is why the government has to keep borrowing.

If the government issued its own currency instead of borrowing at interest it wouldn't be in this mess. But then, so many other countries with a privately owned central bank are in a similar situation, although not to the same degree as Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Aso is arrogance personfied. Been at a few conferences where he was speaking or on a panel discussion as a 'VIP' or 'Keynote speaker', lounging back in his chair, slurring his speech at the microphone, putting down questioners, and answering with the mindset of someone born in the 1640s. As others have written, he and his family are rich; other people do not matter to him, except for opening doors and bowing to him.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

"It has caused extreme worries and misunderstanding," Finance Minister Taro Aso said in explaining the reasoning behind not accepting the report

There's no doubt that he knew it would cause extreme worries and misunderstanding. It wasn't that long ago (2016) that Aso commented during an LDP meeting that:

“I heard someone on TV saying something totally ridiculous, like ‘I’m worried about how I’m going to carry on after I turn 90 years old’ and I wanted to ask that person ‘Just how long do you plan on living?’”

And in 2013 he described patients with serious illnesses as "tube persons" and that they should be "allowed to die quickly" if they want too.

It's a mistake to think that Aso is simply out of touch. This guy is one of the foxes actively guarding what's left of the henhouse.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

"We have to be careful not to cause trouble to our party's candidates before the upper house election," he said.

Yeah, wait until after the election to drop the bombs. A retired couple need at least ¥3 million per year. A married couple's pension is a little more than half of that around ¥1.8 million. And, this only applies to around 40% of the elderly who fit into the Naoki Average demographic. There is around 10% who don't need a pension due to family wealth. The other 50% are living in severe poverty and scrounging to survive. Many end up working themselves to death because of it.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Abenomics went into the GPIF (Government Pension Investment Fund) to buy riskier assets and LOST. 

Judging long-term investment results over the short-term is a losers proposition, don't do it.

Investments will suffer losses in the short-term, from time to time, it's to be expected.

But for example observe that in fiscal 2017 investment return was positive:

https://www.gpif.go.jp/en/annual_report_fiscal_year_2017.pdf

That report notes cumulative returns since fiscal 2001 of 60 trillion yen, which is the sort of thing people should be looking at, rather than performance in a down year.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I have never seen anyone predicting utopian splendor - where did that come from.

Read through some of the comments on this thread, from just a few days ago:

https://japantoday.com/category/national/newborns-in-japan-hit-record-low-in-2018-amid-population-decrease

My favorite was: "Blessed are the newly born of Japan, for they will inherit a land with plentiful jobs and cheap housing."

However, it seems pretty obvious that not reducing the population will result in the opposite of utopia ad the destruction of our living environment. It also is a simple fact that populations cannot increase indefinitely, and that any economic system that depends on such an increase is essentially a ponzi scheme.

For the record, I'm vehemently against the growth at any cost approach to managing the global economy. It, neoliberalism, has led to exactly this moment--an unstable and likely doomed biosphere, rampant inequality and a resurgence in the worst kind of nationalism. Likewise, I'm all for a smaller population in Japan and across the globe. But there is managed population decline and there is precipitous decline overseen by incompetent stewards. This article just being the latest example--they're literally burying their hands in the sand.

Have you read the Guardian's latest (in their ongoing series on Tokyo)? Here's the likely future for far too many old folks here:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/11/how-tokyo-suburban-housing-blocks-became-ghettoes-for-the-old

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The Financial Services Agency is considering largely revising the report, sources close to the matter said.

I think it sounds fine.

My plan is to be independent in retirement, and so I'm not worried about it. The more people that can follow a similar plan, the less pressure there would be on social welfare systems to support those truly in need.

The pension system should be overhauled as soon as possible and made realistic and credible. With correct expectations people can plan accordingly.

"Is Japan a country in which people will face difficulty in living without having 20 million yen when they get old?"

When you get old, you had better have some savings, no matter where you live. Especially in an aging society like Japan. It's irresponsible to think that a shrinking working population can afford to pay ever increasing proportions of their income to support the elderly.

"... to tell the public not to rely on the pension and save money on your own."

That is the prudent thing to do. People taking care of themselves shouldn't even be a political issue. None of these political parties are telling the truth.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And where are the commenters ready to regale us with the utopian splendor that'll result from fewer children being born. 

I have never seen anyone predicting utopian splendor - where did that come from. However, it seems pretty obvious that not reducing the population will result in the opposite of utopia ad the destruction of our living environment. It also is a simple fact that populations cannot increase indefinitely, and that any economic system that depends on such an increase is essentially a ponzi scheme.

Sorry to say this, but there is no easy way out of the debt hole Japan and many Western nations have dug for themselves. The sooner people address the issue, the less painful it will be. But I am not counting on it ever being addressed. It has to run its ugly course.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

That seems pretty reasonable. I don't expect the public pension to cover all of my costs.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Dont worry. They'll come up with a new panel in a few months and their results will show a 10 million in savings and that result won't be rejected because it will reflect the true strength of the pension system

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"No, not true! We won't accept it! It doesn't display our opinion! That's just fake!"

Is there anything he forgot to say? Oh yes, of course: "Don't worry, I got it made long time ago!"

That's how (not only but also) the Japanese government takes care of those, who worked and paid into the pension "scam" fund for so many years!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

those are some seriously out of touch fogeys in the Japanese gov't

4 ( +5 / -1 )

If anyone is relying on the public pension system in Japan as their sole source of funds during retirement, they will be extremely disappointed.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What so MANY people don’t know, and if they did, no WAY would the LDP get into power, ever again, even the CIA wouldn’t be able to get them back in

In any ideal government, in any ideal democratic government, these crooks would be languishing in a very tiny cell. But unfortunately, this is japan.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Abenomics went into the GPIF (Government Pension Investment Fund) to buy riskier assets and LOST. In fiscal 2015 alone, the GPIF lost between ¥5 trillion and ¥5.5 trillion (between $49 billion and $53 billion). What so MANY people don’t know, and if they did, no WAY would the LDP get into power, ever again, even the CIA wouldn’t be able to get them back in (The LDP were CIA backed after WWII).

https://wolfstreet.com/2016/08/27/japan-gpif-pension-fund-dives-into-stocks-foreign-assets-loses-shirt-people-not-amused/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I was told last year by the pension office to stop paying my premiums when I turn 60. I would be better off just saving my money until I reach 65.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Retirement is supposed to be the golden years.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The point for me is, we all need to save for our retirement, thats clear, different people will have different needs and lifestyles

2 ( +2 / -0 )

60% of the workforce on short term contracts earning 3-5 million a year, so if the don't spend anything for 4-6 years or say half that will take 8-12 years to save. Then tax etc add another 2 years. There are going to be a lot of elderly at soup kitchens in the future.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

japan's pension ranking from this australian world pension index is not very good. in fact it is right at the bottom.

https://australiancentre.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/MMGPI-Report-2018.pdf

Grade A 80 Netherlands Denmark

Grade B 65–75 Finland Australia Sweden Norway Singapore Chile New Zealand Canada Switzerland Ireland Germany

Grade C+ 60–65 Colombia UK Peru France

Grade C 50–60 Saudi Arabia USA Malaysia Brazil Hong Kong SAR Spain Poland Austria Indonesia Italy South Africa

Grade D 35–50 Japan Korea (South) China Mexico India Argentina

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Let's face it - only the very wealthy are ever going to be able to retire. The rest of us will work until we drop, like good little units of production.

I want to retire at 55. I'm working towards it. I put it at about 66% odds right now.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Let's face it - only the very wealthy are ever going to be able to retire. The rest of us will work until we drop, like good little units of production.

And Stepoutsidethebox - enjoy your gloating. The taxes you're going to pay on that little nest-egg to keep the wheels on the Pensions Ponzi scheme are only ever going up.

As the great Carlin said - it's a big club. And you ain't in it.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Financial Services Agency Panel reported a true story. They were kind informing people about our future.  Both the government and the opposition parties are flattering the public - the government denying the report and the opposition accusing the government. Both know the report is true.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

In countries like Australia, people are constantly reminded that they will need 1 million dollars plus in private savings (superannuation) in retirement before even thinking about the aged pension. No politicians reject that conclusion. Yes it causes anxiety but that's the reality of retiring in a first world country. Aso is being irresponsible in rejecting this report.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Down with greedy, impotent govt. Without these 95 years old, there would be no your stupid 75 years old govt.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

God forbid that individuals should take responsibility for their own financial situations. The state pension was never meant to sustain a comfortable middle-class lifestyle. It was conceived to ensure people had the basics in old age, like food and heating.

Japanese households's financial assets are now at a record high. The problem is 80% of that money is cash and life insurance. If Japanese people dont want to invest, even during today's extended bull market, that's their fault, not the government's.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Lol what. I am planning and on target for 100millon yen to retire. That is what couple retiring TODAY should have.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

btw, 60 is too young for housewives to be getting a pension. Nurses and other frontline workers is okay, they've worked hard and paid in, but housewives haven't. Life expectancy for a 60 year old woman is something like 88. The average woman will get that pension for nearly thirty years. It's current workers who are paying for it.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The report is real because I'm living it working till I die. Fortunately, in my case I do enjoy my work and it keeps the wolves away from the door. In the next 20 years there has to be a serious reckoning with the elites who since 1980 have imposed their exploitative and self-enriching ponzi-scheme socio-economic programs on a world-wide scale wastefully spawning monstrous military expenditures and battening on arms sales that feed tyranny and fuel wars. 150,000,000 children are living in conditions of virtual slavery doing forced labor instead of getting the education they need to build a future for themselves. Aso and his global ilk are the first obstacles that must be removed to save the planet and make way for a sustainable future.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Ruling party lawmakers have also been angry about releasing the controversial report ahead of the upper house election in the summer.

> "We have to be careful not to cause trouble to our party's candidates before the upper house election," he said.

Hah, of course the election is more important than OUR future.

The report was released last week by a panel under the Financial Services Agency and was supposed to be submitted to Aso.

Yeah, if it was gone through Aso, im sure it would be heavily edited.

I'm sick and tired of this government, why are Japanese people allowing them to get away with this. Unbelievable.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

...And the elephant in the room- How did this system / government come into being after the war?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Watching Abe & Aso's contempt for the report on the news last night - the report that they ordered with an assembled cast of experts - clarifies 2 important points for me.

1st , as many noted, their rich privileged backgrounds sees them way out of touch with us mere mortals.

2nd, sadly the shady, corrupt likes of these consistently get re-elected by a the very public they are wringing out. In all the major democracies it defies understanding.

Hopefully in the upcoming upper house elections, peopel will see through the lies and some sanity will prevail on voting day.

And interesting how, after the pension report was released, all talk of a double election (lower house too) was played down. Too chicken to face the music.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Lolololololololololoololololololol

Isnt revising another word for fudging? How is it that there's no body to oversee these fossilized dinosaurs? Oh, wait. This is japan.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Reject the report! Keep the fantasy going!

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Agree with all the above posters

> "Is Japan a country in which people will face difficulty in living without having 20 million yen when they get old?"

yes

Akira Koike of the Japanese Communist Party also said at the Diet, "It is an approach equivalent to fraud by the government to tell the public not to rely on the pension and save money on your own."

100% correct.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

These politicians are so out of touch with the average person on the street it beggars belief.

There seriously is a caste system now in Japan.

The 'elite' are only bothered about themselves and have no empathy with the plebs they control.

i read somewhere that Japanese politicians collect a monthly pension of around ¥700,000 a month paid for by the proletariat who they keep on urging to have more babies so that their gravy train can continue and give their own silver-spooned offspring a life of entitlement as well.

18 ( +18 / -0 )

It has caused extreme worries and misunderstanding," Finance Minister Taro Aso said

Truth hurts huh...

government would not receive the report as an "official" one, because it runs counter to its view that the pension system serves as the basis of household finances during post-retirement years.

Yep...any inconvenient truths that do not comply with this deceiving govt official view will be rejected.

We have to be careful not to cause trouble to our party's candidates before the upper house election," he said.

There is the denial reason in black and white from Nikai,s mouth , ...not that the voting sheeple pensioners will give it a second thought ...blinkers on and vote LDP.

Isn’t 20 million yen the amount Aso spends eating out per year?

Throw in the Ginza hostess club fees and its probably per month, not that it matters , its all on official ' business ' and taxpayer will pick up the tab , no worries.....

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Wow, the idiot openly admits winning an election is more important than a simple truth about pensions being well short of whats needed to survive here!

DUH that has been common knowledge for a long time, and for someone to live into their 90s & NOT be short Y20MIL they must have some much BETTER than average savings, I suspect for many 90year olds the shortfall figure will well exceed Y20mil!!

17 ( +17 / -0 )

Abe insisted that the credibility of the public pension system has become "stronger,"

He has no idea.

If the credibility of the pension system was as strong as he says, the ¥20 million claim would be laughed away by all, including those currently claiming pensions. I don't see the hordes flocking to assure the country that their pensions are generous and more than sufficient.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

And where are the commenters ready to regale us with the utopian splendor that'll result from fewer children being born. If the pension system is already this at risk, do you think it's going to get better anytime soon. The transition is going to be ugly.

16 ( +16 / -0 )

"We have to be careful not to cause trouble to our party's candidates before the upper house election," he said.

Shesh, don't question us we are trying to win an election. How stupid is this to ignore the facts even with simple math!

18 ( +18 / -0 )

Of course he has rejected it. The Japanese government is famous for covering up the truth.

23 ( +25 / -2 )

Isn’t 20 million yen the amount Aso spends eating out per year?

22 ( +22 / -0 )

"...aim of encouraging the public to take a more proactive role in managing and investing their assets." To invest, you need disposable income. Most people are living hand to mouth, paying loans and working to the bone. If you have children, all the more so...

That's what happens when you have politicians and bureaucrats who know nothing about how the populace live. They have their own pension system separate from us.

24 ( +24 / -0 )

You got no worries, you wont be around for another 20 years, so you really dont give a frack!

Not to mention the oodles of money he inherited from mommy and daddy.

29 ( +29 / -0 )

"It has caused extreme worries and misunderstanding," Finance Minister Taro Aso said

Yeah but it's your ministry, the one YOU head, that put it out, and it's only something someone who doesnt care about anything or anyone other than themselves would say!

You got no worries, you wont be around for another 20 years, so you really dont give a frack!

28 ( +29 / -1 )

We disagree with the results, so god results lack credibility. Classic.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

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