Japan's envoy urges S Korea to remove 'comfort woman' statues

I said that statues should be removed by the SK-gov because they are now a permanent fixture. They have been removed before and can be again. Censorship? Nope. An agreement was reached in 2015 to wit the Japanese government paid 1 billion yen and both parties agreed to put the past to an end.

The statues are not maintained by the government, so forcing a citizens group would require government censorship.

Hey, if you can't agree to let things go, then don't sign agreements to do so. What do you think that money was paid for? For the SK- Gov to continue on as before? What was that money paid for then if the statues are still there?

So censorship is ok as long as it's paid for?

If the Japanese government would take a stance of admitting the atrocities and certifying it through law, to not be denied by politicians afterwards, there would be no need to have the statues. 

That's what I meant by you talking about censorship. Yes, I said that statues should be removed by the SK-gov because they are now a permanent fixture. They have been removed before and can be again. Censorship? Nope. An agreement was reached in 2015 to wit the Japanese government paid 1 billion yen and both parties agreed to put the past to an end. Now, because it was so unpopular at home and because they GOT the money, they reneged and allowed another one to be put up in front of the consulate in Busan. A sister!! Oh how nice. Hey, if you can't agree to let things go, then don't sign agreements to do so. What do you think that money was paid for? For the SK- Gov to continue on as before? What was that money paid for then if the statues are still there?

Denial of the atrocities is much more rude than a statue in front of the embassy.

Yes, of course. But then again so is accepting money and saying that you consider the matter closed but then to turn around and allow permits for statues. . . I hope Japan doesn't pay a single yen anymore since the Koreans are so distrustful now.

Also, one has to wonder about South Koreans who never hear anything about their forefathers barbaric actions in Vietnam. I wonder if they would have the same reaction if Vietnam suddenly came into a financial windfall and gave permits to groups to erect statues in front of THEIR embassies in Vietnam? South Koreans love to point the finger and play the victim but they sure never owned up to their actions there, even going as far as putting pressure on the local government in Ha My to erase the description of the horrible massacre that took play there just to replace it with lotus blossoms on the monument. The SK president visited the Ho Chi Min tomb and laid flowers there, but never ever apologized to the Vietnamese people for the rape and murder of thousands of Vietnamese there. South Koreans are obliviously to this. The public ignores it. There is absolutely no talk about atoning for THEIR actions at all. Have you ever heard of any? Of course not, such conversations will get you in big trouble over there. Actually Japanese know a lot more about what THEIR forefathers did than the South Koreans do. There have been apologies and money paid from Japan as well. Some apologies sincere and others vague. But I have never heard of that from a South Korean official. No way. Seems to me that they should clean up their own house, before only focusing on Japan.

Frankly, giving permits out to do such things after signing an agreement to let by-gones be bygones and getting paid is just in bad taste and does not help anyone at all.

Once again, I ask. . .

Please answer this. . . Anybody!

Who gains from placing a statue like that in front of an embassy? 

Do you actually believe that it will make the Japanese become more honest about their past or infuriate them even more to de?

@Strangerland - Yeah, if we all followed the German example, we would be in a different world.

Well, we'd be in one without holocaust deniers.

As far as censorship goes, weren't you the one who suggested in the first place? LOL

Well no, you've been saying that the statue should be removed, since before I said anything.

you are 100% wrong when you say its in Korea when in fact when entering any embassy its the same as entering the country of that embassy. Its a small piece of Japanese soil located in Korea and in return SK have their small piece of Korean soil in Japan. Even when diplomats are leaving or entering those embassies they have diplomatic immunity and cannot be stopped at the airport, nor have their luggage searched or stopped when in a car with diplomatic plates.

@zichi - I am not wrong. Everything besides me being wrong in your statement is true and I never denied it. Yeah, we are talking about very different things here.

@zichi - Yes, you should give up because we talking about very different points. I never said that what you pointed out about ownership, laws or anything else is untrue. Not once. However, the embassy is IN South Korea. The statue is IN South Korea. It IS IN FRONT OF THE EMBASSY. That is it. All. End of story. It is right there in front of the embassy. That is what I AM TALKING ABOUT. Nothing more, nothing less.

@Strangerland - Yeah, if we all followed the German example, we would be in a different world. As far as censorship goes, weren't you the one who suggested in the first place? LOL

@Strangerland - What you suggest is called censorship. You can not have an agreement and then forbid politicians from saying that it didn't happen.

You're right to some degree, but Germany does it, and it works well for them. On top of that, there has never been anything put into law in Japan admitting it happened from the government side.

On top of that, you are talking about removing the statue - aka censorship. So you can't have it both ways.

@zichi - Once again, you can call it what you want. I am quite aware of the situation and the convention and all. But it is neither here nor there though. The point is that it IS in South Korea. NOT in Japan. It is just like a neighbor standing right in front of your house with his middle finger up at you! Okay? Or the childish game where you put your hand in front of someone's face and go. . . "Not touching you. Not touching you. Not touching you." If you want to to continue to talk about guest, host, Vienna Convention than I am done with this conversation. I am talking about location, location, location and as you know location is everything. It is IN front of the Japanese Embassy. It should NOT be in front of the embassy if South Koreans want to not be seen as obnoxious, wish for the Japanese to confront their past or wish to have better relations with Japan.

@Strangerland - What you suggest is called censorship. You can not have an agreement and then forbid politicians from saying that it didn't happen. That is something that happens in non-democratic countries.

Like I said before. Have your statues. Use them for political gain as is done around the world including my own USA, but not in front of an embassy. Nothing good will come of it. The only people it serves are politicians who use it to stroke the fire for their own political gain and the people who are angry. Furthermore, this issue has long been used by the South Korean government to switch focus from its own sheer ineptitude and cheating ways and the media to sell newspapers and commercial time. Frankly I doubt that any South Korean politician is really willing to lose Japan as a whipping boy because they would have less election material to work with. Stroking people's anger is a great political weapon. Dumb, Dumb Donald and Fox News have clearly just illustrated that in the USA.

Please answer this. . . Anybody!

Who gains from placing a statue like that in front of an embassy?

Do you actually believe that it will make the Japanese become more honest about their past or infuriate them even more to de?

The allowing of any foreign embassy in any country is not as a guest. It's a diplomatic privilege agreed by two countries and covered by diplomatic law.

@zichi - You can call it what you want. The fact remains that it is in South Korea, which means it is the host country. The Japanese embassy is there not in Japan, so it is still a guest.

If the Japanese government would take a stance of admitting the atrocities and certifying it through law, to not be denied by politicians afterwards, there would be no need to have the statues.

Denial of the atrocities is much more rude than a statue in front of the embassy.

@zichi - Um, there have always been thousands and thousands of protests in front of embassies in the past and there is nothing wrong with that. This is a statue. A STATUE! Quite different than protests. I don't have a problem with protests. Protests are fine. Go for it.

Japan sadly would rather whitewash than acknowledge its history, that is simply wrong.

@GW - Which countries actually do not? The only country that I can think of that does not whitewash its history is Germany. The USA rarely owns up. Besides that, I can't think of any other country that owns up to its past. Can you?

To be honest, I am often frustrated with Japan's whitewashing of its history as well though. It too often plays the victim and solely concentrates on what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and it is highly irritating.

But that is actually besides the point. I am talking about location. Location, location, location. This is the problem. Can you not expect anything good by allowing that to stay in front of the embassy. Of course not. It is a rude host and allows this statue to stay there for political gain because for far too long it has stroked the anger of its populace against Japan for personal political gain.

Do you think that those statues actually help the Japanese to repent, feel sympathy or anything else? Do they teach the Japanese anything that they should learn? No, of course not.

SLuv,   

Like I have been saying on jt for ages, this is SIMPLE, Japan just needs to do better to ACKNOWLEGDE its HISTORY, for 7+ decades Japan has NOT done so, so it is reaping what JAPAN has & continues to sew!

Japan sadly would rather whitewash than acknowledge its history, that is simply wrong.

Wouldn't it be great if Japan acknowledged its history better THEN there would be no need for these statues, but Japan & its people don't like the truth about about what they did    in the 1930-1945 period, they prefer to ignore, turn a blind eye than simply acknowledge what Japan did & here we are.

And what of the other statues in America, Australia and NZ which are not in front of embassies but the Japanese objected anyway.

@zichi - Yes, Japan has always complained about other statues and tried to get them removed which is disturbing, and wrong. My objection is to the location of this one. Allowing them in front of the embassy is just obnoxiously rude to one's guests. If a citizens group from Vietnam were to place one in front of a South Korean embassy in Hanoi depicting crimes committed by South Korean soldiers on their people during the Vietnam War, the South Koreans would lose their minds.

Would it serve a purpose to put a statue of people suffering from the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings in front of the American Embassy in Tokyo? No, of course not. Have your statues, but don't be obnoxiously rude to your guest embassies and then scratch your head wondering why the other side is not listening to you or finds your constant complaining irritating and ignores it.

I propose we all place statues in our countries in honor of the victims of our countries. Self reflection can change more than rude finger pointing like this one.

OssanAmerica Today  12:17 am JST

Everybody, including Japan recognizes the existence of the Comfort Women System. What many deny is the absurd argument that "200,000 women were kidnapped by the IJA". The source of that myth has been determined to by "fake news" published by the Asahi Shinbun in the early 1990s, and the newspaper has admitted to this fact. Yet the Comfort Women Crowd still persist in repeating this fallacy. There is also absolutely no evidence in the U.S. archives which cover material from investigations during WWII and after which support this fallacy.

The only sensible and factual comment so far.

but Ysukuni is attended by "individuals" too... (govt officials on their off time)

and are we sure the statue s not funded by the korean govt secretly?

http://peace.maripo.com/p_comfort_women.htm

@GW - Do you think that those statues actually help the Japanese to repent, feel sympathy or anything else? Do they teach the Japanese anything that they should learn? No, of course not. They only instill more anger among Japanese people and encourage South Koreans to get angry as well. That is not helpful at all and can only prologue the divide between the two countries. The purpose is simply "in-your-face" behavior by the group that put it up and a lack of political backbone by the K-gov to take it down because they know it will enrage the public. A public that for so many, many years has been trained to hate the Japanese as much as possible for political gain of S.K politicians.

I am not condoning Japanese behavior at all. However, that statue in front of the embassy provides NO benefit at all for either country.

SLuv,

Until Japan can accept ITS history the statues in plain view seem to be a GOOD idea to me, Japan has been getting WWII wrong for 70+yrs & counting, its entirely in THEIR hands to make right BUT Japan deliberately CHOOSES to do wrong, so its on Japan, pretty simple really.

Yes, they were victimized. Yes, they were sex slaves. Yes, Japan should continue to condone for its actions against the South Korean and stop white washing history.

However, in the interest of good relations, it's in poor taste, insulting and just plain rude. Put it somewhere else. Put them all over the place, but not right smack in front of the embassy. It is not like Koreans are NOW being treated that way by the J-Gov.

I complete agree with making Japan be more responsible for its past. But the South Koreans need to try to be better hosts. If I were the Japanese Prime Minister I would close the embassy and send the South Korean Ambassador back to South Korea until the South Koreans learn how to be better hosts. I know and expect many minuses for this, but so be it. I have thought about this for a long time, and can not agree to such behavior.

Isn't there also one in NZ or Aus?

Why not tell it like it is? They were sex slaves. "Comfort women" paints an entirely wrong picture. I'm sure they weren't kindly aunts listening with a sympathetic ear.

I fail to understand why Japan should spend so much political capital over these small statues. It, they are on Korean soil and not Japanese.

fabricated story statue 2.  in front of Japan's Embassy.

Everybody, including Japan recognizes the existence of the Comfort Women System. What many deny is the absurd argument that "200,000 women were kidnapped by the IJA". The source of that myth has been determined to by "fake news" published by the Asahi Shinbun in the early 1990s, and the newspaper has admitted to this fact. Yet the Comfort Women Crowd still persist in repeating this fallacy. There is also absolutely no evidence in the U.S. archives which cover material from investigations during WWII and after which support this fallacy.

Sorry Japan, they STAY! If you want them removed you need to do it the old fashioned way EARN IT!!  Sorry $$$ tossed about with no acceptance of history isn't going to work, just sayin!

Let's remove those memorials in zhoroshima and Nagasaki while we're at it....

Are those memorials located just outside the US embassy in Tokyo?

Japanese and South Korean officials urgently meet to address the North Korean issue, and Japan says "remove those statues" to South Korea.....At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if North Korea decided to put up these statues.

Why do asians like to bring up 50 year old issues as if they just happened yesterday? (comfort women, yasukuni)

Exactly! It boggles my mind why Japanese keep talking about these statues that constantly puts a spotlight on Japan's dark history, and how they deny it. You see what I did there?

Always remember the soothing words of advice by The Hillary, the famous sage - AT THIS POINT WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE.

Japan should be supporting this. Otherwise it looks like the IJA never left governing Japan

Dango Bong: "Why do asians like to bring up 50 year old issues as if they just happened yesterday?"

Yasukuni "happened 50 years ago"? Dude, even that weren't wrong a number of levels from a moral standpoint, you'd still be more than 20 years off on how long the war criminals have been enshrined there. The point is they are STILL enshrined there TODAY, and people go there TODAY to worship said criminals among others, and the shrine still refuses TODAY to take the names of Koreans out despite the Koreans wanting the names out and never having wanted them in. Their living god -- the Emperor -- won't even go to the shrine because he knows it espouses TODAY the sentiments of the past, and the people who visit it TODAY are headed down the same path that led to Japan's near annihilation.

And why would you want everyone to forget something that happened in the past that was horrible, unless you were guilty? Japan wants the world to forget the sex slaves, but not everything bad that happened to Japan (they actually think everything bad Japan did happened to Japan, too, if they admit it happened at all. Some feel Japan was the victim of Pearl Harbor!). SHouldn't you also be suggesting, Dango, that the Peace Memorial Museums in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Okinawa be torn down and people stop gathering once a year to remember what happened and vow not to repeat it? I notice you didn't have that on your list of things that were an issue "50 years ago".

Actually Japan should erect similar memorial ...that will be the sign of a mature country.

Japan needs to get over it and come to grips with their past. Removing the statues does nothing other than make it easier to forget about the atrocities without atoning for them.

. If you want to offend someone you do it in the loudest way possible. That's what is happening here.

... It sounds as if someone here hasn't heard the black vans in Osaka, on most weekends / public holidays.

Japan should not forget the past and neither should Korea.

Once, at the Peace Park in Hiroshima,a tearful Japanese held out his hand to me saying 'never again' and although not being an American I shook hands with him.

When both sides are able to accept the other without conditions then there will be closure-not before.....

Every country has done bad things in their history. We are embarrassed.

Own up to it and move on.

Let the families of those who were impacted figure out how to grieve and honor their relatives. Keep your mouth shut if you are in the offending nation and take steps (legal, social, national) to ensure it never happens again. Denials don't convey never again. Be certain to teach the true history to all children and have them be offended about it.

My country had slavery. It is an embarrassment even today, though my family wasn't here at the time and our prior countries did not have slavery. There are statues about slavery and the Civil War all over the place here. Some families still take part in reenactments of battles annually at those national parks built on those sites. It is uncomfortable, but keeps the truth alive for all. Hiding the truth would be bad for our society.

Why do asians like to bring up 50 year old issues as if they just happened yesterday? (comfort women, yasukuni)

Are they really that insecure?

Yes the location is the problem, If I live in country not my own and a locals erected a monument about my country appalling pass history to their country, I would move to another location. With Japans present attitude the locals might build another monument depicting other atrocities.

Dango bong: "I am not for history revisionism, but I am also not for people taking hush money, and then talking."

I don't know if you're choosing to miss the point, or just missing it naturally, but it's not the same group that took the money and the that has erected the statues. The SK GOVERNMENT (as in, national government) took the money and agreed to work with Japan on putting the issue to rest, and at Japan's behest (demands, more like it) even looked into having the statue across from the Embassy in Seoul moved, but it is not their choice because it is CITIZENS' groups that have voted and passed the relevant requirements, even previous to the decision to take the money by the federal government. The South Korean government did not put up the statues, and it cannot by law take them down any more than the Federal government of Japan can demand Yasukuni be closed or change its museum contents -- and we all know they couldn't demand the spirits of the class-A war criminals be removed from the lists of souls enshrined there, right?

Haaa Nemui: "I think the location is a problem... In its current location the protest is as loud as it can possibly be."

That's true, but your comment would only be on the mark if the government of Japan were only asking that that one statue be RELOCATED, but in actually they are asking that ALL statues be REMOVED. Don't forget they've also asked that similar statues in other nations be removed as well.

I'm with Dango bong on this to some extent. I think the location is a problem... In its current location the protest is as loud as it can possibly be.

Japanese government ACTUALLY went to the US and demanded textbook companies take out references to sex slaves in their textbooks

I am not for history revisionism, but I am also not for people taking hush money, and then talking.

Let's remove those memorials in zhoroshima and Nagasaki while we're at it....

Dango Bong: "Japan paid money to Korea for reparations and in return Korea agreed not to make disparaging remarks in public."

Problem is, the wingers deny the money was for anything but "Korea to shut up!" (the actual words of some posters on here), and that it was not compensation or reparation money. Also, they still deny it, with many, including prefectural Governors, deny it ever having happened and saying it is just propaganda. More importantly, though, the statues have been erected by citizens' groups, not the South Korean government.

"I think either Korea needs to take the statue down or give JApan their money back. Korea can not have the cake and eat it too"

It's not South Korea going to other nations and demanding it be done their way. Representatives of the Japanese government ACTUALLY went to the US and demanded textbook companies take out references to sex slaves in their textbooks, and have protested towns in the US, Australia, and elsewhere putting up similar statues. It's Japan that wants to have its cake and eat it, too. The agreement was with the government, not the citizens groups, and if you think it's part an parcel why were there no police arresting the right-wingers I saw screaming racial epithets on the streets of Osaka today? Even though it's clearly against the hate speech lip-service laws put into place last year, some still argue it is freedom of speech and police and government should do nothing. And yet, here you are saying the citizens of another nation should not have a statue -- not that represents hate or disparages others -- that recognises the victims of atrocity and cruelty, and the desire never to forget, so that it will not be repeated.

Japan and Korea made an agreement a few years back, Japan paid money to Korea for reparations and in return Korea agreed not to make disparaging remarks in public.

I think either Korea needs to take the statue down or give JApan their money back. Korea can not have the cake and eat it too

Question for Japan; How far away from the consulate/embassy would the statues have to be moved for Japan to find them acceptable? 50, 100, 200 meters? If the answer is that nowhere is acceptable and that this sort of free expression must be silenced, then Japan's demands are completely unreasonable.

What else would violate the spirit of the 2015 agreement? The Korean public broadcaster airing a documentary on comfort women? Any event held on public property commemorating comfort women?

Not going to happen, nor should it. How about Japan simply address history properly and give a genuine apology? Then maybe they might think about it. In the meantime, with the denials that women were forced into sexual slavery, and people in power in Japan saying it is all propaganda, I say civics groups put up MORE statues, and across the world for that matter until Japan properly addresses the issue (not asking for "differing opinions" and threatening to hold money if Japan's revisions to history are not accepted and others removed). I think they should push to have one put up on Dokdo.

"Urge?" I have an urge too, but typically that leads me to the porcelain throne.

When are these politicians, Japanese one's that is, going to realize that the bigger a deal they make about this issue, more and more of these statues will show up, all over the world.

Shut up (can't I know) ignore it, and this too shall pass!