politics

Japan, S Korea weigh creation of fund amid spat over wartime labor

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Here we go, another fund, not run by the government but by some third party, (like the sex-slave one) the laborers will refuse the compensation because it is not accompanied by any admission of guilt, and it is not from the government nor corporation itself.

And why are Korean companies involved?

The idea being floated is for the government and companies in South Korea to set up a fund. Japanese companies will chip in money so it can be used under the name of economic cooperation, not as compensation for wartime labor, the sources said.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Here we go again. And again. And....

In theory, this idea is very solid. Have the companies that were directly involved in wartime labor contribute to the fund.

However, we are not dealing with rational human beings here. If this idea does happen, the anti-Japan nationalists in South Korea will then complain that it's not sincere since the Japanese government didn't fund it, and no Japanese official groveled for forgiveness on bended knees.

Ludicrous as always and forever.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

Well, we all know it will go south eventually and still not be enough in the long run, but at least Japan is the one taking the high road to try and smooth things over. I doubt they're being suckered into anything, just trying to be the better party and make it go away.

11 ( +17 / -6 )

This plan will never work. Waste of time. No matter how many Japanese governments and Prime Ministers apologize, no matter how much money is given to permanently settle the issue in finality... South Koreans always want more.

Lawyers for the South Korean plaintiffs have already seized the assets of the Japanese companies -- Nippon Steel Corp. and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. -- for their failure to comply with the court orders and are now seeking to liquidate them.

Outrageous they can do this. Why isnt the world taking trade action against South Korea, in support of Japan? Japanese companies are being liquidated, while the world looks the other way.

7 ( +20 / -13 )

“sources familiar with bilateral ties said Monday”

Could you please disclose the sources?

10 ( +12 / -2 )

South Korea / Japan, Give it a rest!!!!!!! Stop destroying present generations life over something that did/didn't happen before you were even born!!!!!

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

The Japanese and SK governments settled the matter in 1965. However SK's rulers hijacked the funds and did not settle with the victims or aggrieved.

Don't expect it to be different this time.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Psssssssssst. To all everyone that's not familiar with basic economics, shooting oneself in the foot like Abe and his ilk did is not sure to bode well down the road as seen today. The pathetic thing being that ship's already sailed. Korean companies have weaned themselves off the blackmail model of doing business. Now watch as the grovelling proceeds with absolutely no practical end result.

-10 ( +10 / -20 )

Large amounts of money will move in the background, to the enrichment of some, but as usual none of it will ever reach the hands of the so-called 'plaintiffs', setting up grievances for the next time around.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Outrageous they can do this. Why isnt the world taking trade action against South Korea, in support of Japan? Japanese companies are being liquidated, while the world looks the other way.

Because the world community doesn’t look at this issue with the eyes of a right wing Japanese institution.

Furthermore that is a minor local issue that the two countries have to settle by themselves.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

"This plan will never work. Waste of time. No matter how many Japanese governments and Prime Ministers apologize, no matter how much money is given to permanently settle the issue in finality... South Koreans always want more. "

Exactly! The South Korean media is already denying the report.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Northeast Asians have the wisdom to overcome the difficult past.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

nandakandamandaToday 08:30 am JSTLarge amounts of money will move in the background, to the enrichment of some, but as usual none of it will ever reach the hands of the so-called 'plaintiffs', setting up grievances for the next time around.

Why can't this work? The only missing factor here is NK. Before Korea got divided, all Koreans suffered under the Japanese totalitarian regime and even before.

In 1999 the Libyan government (still under Moammar Qaddafy) started paying compensation to the survivors of his terror shenanigans that he did before the UN imposed sanctions on him in the early 90s.

And now the post-Milosevic governments of Serbia and Montenegro are paying compensation to the other ex-Yugoslav republics.

It can happen.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Yah...No, complete waste of time. The current SK admin might not even be around for that much longer...time to move on Japan. Cut your losses and stop dealing with SKTrolls...

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Oops. seems KYOKO has done it

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Lawyers for the South Korean plaintiffs have already seized the assets of the Japanese companies

I assume they seized just a bunch office furniture and a few fax machines.

The Japanese understand that this recycled cash-grab by the South Koreans is just that. The fact that the Japanese are labelling it an 'economic cooperation fund' when in reality there's no economic cooperation to be had once all Japanese firms pull out of the country. This fund is just enabling them to do so without hindrance.

Good luck to South Korea at any rate.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Northeast Asians have the wisdom to overcome the difficult past.

And yet, apparently not.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

How did that meme from a few months ago go again?

Oh, right.

Ah shoot, here we go again.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

There was a great article by a British professor long-time resident of South Korea that proposed basically a similar solution. (Sorry, I can't remember his name.)

Instead of involving companies his idea was citizens should be involved. His point of view what that there is enough good will among the younger generations of both countries to overcome this no-win situation brought on by the ridiculous decision made by Korea's Supreme Court.

He proposed that the Korean government would take the money they already received from Japan, put it in a kitty to which ordinary citizens of both Japan and Korea could contribute. From there the payments would be made to those, and only those who had been forced to work during the Japanese occupation of Korea. 

Descendants of those folks would not be eligible. 

To date it is the only proposal that I have heard that makes a little sense.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

"Why don't we talk about how to provide funding for the building of future Japan-South Korea ties, instead of compensation?" said Kawamura, a lawmaker from the Liberal Democratic Party.

Easy, Because if you did, South Korea would be back in a year or two claiming that Japan has never paid compensation. Essentially what has happened with the 1965 Treaty.

If the South Korean government wants to proceed on the basis that the SK Court Ruling did not contravene the 1965 Treaty, it first needs to abide by the Arbitration clause contained therein and proceed to affirm it's position. Only then can it proceed with suggested "solutions" which are based on the validity of the SK Court ruling.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

@oldman_13

the anti-Japan nationalists in South Korea will then complain that it's not sincere since the Japanese government didn't fund it

The ROK government never asked for Japanese government apology or money, since the liable party in question are Japanese corporations and demanded that the Japanese corporations pay up the judgement.

The financial component of this Japanese proposal is 100% in compliance with Moon's 1:1:1 demand, where Japanese corporations, Korean corporations that received 1965 money, and Korean government pay into a compensation fund at same ratio.

What differs is the naming of this fund; Abe san wants to call it an economic cooperation fund while Moon wants to call it a forced labor compensation fund.

Basically Abe san is saying that he will accept Korean demand for money, and that Moon must accept Abe's naming demand.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

@extanker

Well, we all know it will go south eventually and still not be enough in the long run, but at least Japan is the one taking the high road to try and smooth things over. 

The clock is ticking on the GSOMIA termination, that's why.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Northeast Asians are positive people, as simple as that.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The fact that the Japanese are labelling it an 'economic cooperation fund' when in reality there's no economic cooperation to be had once all Japanese firms pull out of the country.

And murderers are next life facilitators.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The financial component of this Japanese proposal is 100% in compliance with Moon's 1:1:1 demand, where Japanese corporations, Korean corporations that received 1965 money, and Korean government pay into a compensation fund at same ratio.

What differs is the naming of this fund; Abe san wants to call it an economic cooperation fund while Moon wants to call it a forced labor compensation fund.

Basically Abe san is saying that he will accept Korean demand for money, and that Moon must accept Abe's naming demand.

Except a few media already reported it's been denied officially

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Like they did 50 years ago?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Samit BasuToday  11:24 am JST

The clock is ticking on the GSOMIA termination, that's why.

GSOMIA is an ad-hoc agreement to include South Korea in US - Japan security intelligence transfers.

It does not matter if South Korea leaves the agreement, since all information that they would provide either of the other two participants has no impact on improving real-time treat detection.

It's a feel good gesture to include South Korea in the agreement. If they don't feel good about it they can leave and it won't make any difference... least of all because no missile will ever be fired at Japan with intent to destroy a target.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

@Hillclimber

It does not matter if South Korea leaves the agreement, since all information that they would provide either of the other two participants has no impact on improving real-time treat detection.

A former Japanese defense minister already has disproven you.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190823/p2a/00m/0na/005000c

However, former Defense Minister Gen Nakatani has dismissed such optimism. "If a missile is launched, relevant divisions among the Japanese, South Korean and U.S. governments comprehensively ascertain the details of the launch and where the missile will land in preparing to intercept it. The system can't function (with cancellation of the Japan-South Korea GSOMIA)," he said.

Japan is a sitting duck without the GSOMIA, and this is why Abe san caved in on the wartime forced labor compensation dispute, knowing that Japan will be blinded without the GSOMIA.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

William77Today  08:34 am JST

Outrageous they can do this. Why isnt the world taking trade action against South Korea, in support of Japan? Japanese companies are being liquidated, while the world looks the other way.

Because the world community doesn’t look at this issue with the eyes of a right wing Japanese institution.

Furthermore that is a minor local issue that the two countries have to settle by themselves.

While I fully agree that this is a matter that must be settled between the two nations themselves, I can not fathom how issues such as (1) refusing to provide the information in order to maintain white list standing, (2) unilaterally ripping up a "permanent and irreversible Agreement" after the other party has fullfilled it's obligations (3) refusing to abide by an Arbitration Clause in a state-to-state Treaty....has anything to do with being Japanese right wing or left wing. Claiming Siouth Korean right wing would make a hell of alot more sense.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

@Ganbare Japan!

Outrageous they can do this. Why isnt the world taking trade action against South Korea, in support of Japan?

That's because the world sides with Korea and condemns Japan on wartime history dispute.

Japan has zero backer as far as the wartime history is concerned.

Abe san is trying to make Japanese public forget about the WW2.

The world remembers the Japanese atrocities of WW2 vividly.

To Germans to whom the act of history denial is a crime and whose government is prosecuting the last surviving Nazis in their 90s, what Abe san is doing to erase history and pay respect to Japanese A-class war criminals at Yasukuni is absolutely horrifying.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

Samit BasuToday  12:46 pm JST

@Hillclimber

It does not matter if South Korea leaves the agreement, since all information that they would provide either of the other two participants has no impact on improving real-time threat detection.

A former Japanese defense minister already has disproven you.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190823/p2a/00m/0na/005000c

*However, former Defense Minister Gen Nakatani has dismissed such optimism. "If a missile is launched, relevant divisions among the Japanese, South Korean and U.S. governments comprehensively ascertain the details of the launch and where the missile will land in preparing to intercept it. *The system can't function (with cancellation of the Japan-South Korea GSOMIA)," he said.

Japan is a sitting duck without the GSOMIA, and this is why Abe san caved in on the wartime forced labor compensation dispute, knowing that Japan will be blinded without the GSOMIA.

I said "real-time threat detection". Nothing you've posted covers that.

Also, why post quotes made by former politictians? They're former for a reason, ie: they do not know anything about what's actually going on in the position they used to hold. If GSOMIA was so important to security, why ISN'T the US blocking South Korea from using it as leverage in a regional dispute? You do not understand the organisation involved, and continually try to paint South Korea as some kind of plug that is preventing everything from going down the drain. It's the complete opposite, there's no way South Korea would be allowed to hold all the cards in a 3-way arrangement that they could use as leverage in a regional dispute on a whim. Don't be so naive.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

So, this is what it is all about. SK just keep putting their hand out. SK has been paid many different compensation funds over the years since imperial rule. However, it seem that, for SK, enough is never enough.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

@Hillclimber

I said "real-time threat detection"

It takes 11 minutes for a NK ballistic missile to land on Tokyo.

Without the early warning from Korea, Japanese radar will pick up the NK ballistic missile 5 minutes before impact and that's too late to attempt an interception.

Also, why post quotes made by former politictians?

Because he was the former Japanese defense minister? You can be sure he knows about the security architecture of Japan. If he doesn't, then you have a real big problem there, a defense minister who doesn't understand how Japan's security architecture works.

why ISN'T the US blocking South Korea from using it as leverage in a regional dispute?

Because the US itself depends on Korean radar feed for missile early warning.

there's no way South Korea would be allowed to hold all the cards in a 3-way arrangement

Of course Korea can. This is why a White House aid stole a presidential executive order letter from Trump's desk to preserve the radar feed according to Bob Woodward's book "Fear".

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Guys, Reuters reported Chief Cabinet Secretary Suga officially denied Kyodo's article and JoongAng Ilbo also reported Korean MOFA denied it too, so thIs article is most likely a fake news. Let’s just hope for JP gov not to repeat the same mistake again.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Where there are large checks being written, there are opportunists just around the corner.

I'd be very curious to see who and what interests have positioned themselves and their 'fees-as-a-percentage for services rendered' along the paper trail delivering whatever funds are ultimately promised.

Of course there are victims and their descendants who've been hurt seeking compensation, but there are certainly agitators involved with no connection to anything who simply smell money.

I'd love to see some deep-digging investigative journalism, but I'm not holding my breath.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

So the Japanese government didn't do anything wrong, but they're making amends almost exactly if they did just acting like they didn't

Sounds legit

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Japan made a proposal to create the envisaged economic cooperation fund, according to the sources.

What is it with Japanese government and euphemisms? Comfort women? Economic cooperation fund? Do they really think people are that naive to not believe what they actually represent? Abe prob thinks he had no choice in order to bypass his fake narratives, but that just shows he's a coward.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

The timing of this is so convenient for Japan. It just screams of ‘please renew GSOMIA before it expires in 25 days’.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

When Japan and South Korea reached the 1965 agreement, Tokyo provided Seoul with $500 million for "economic cooperation."

Yes, this economic cooperation fund of $500 million was a loan with exorbitant conditions such that when purchasing plants and machinery, Korea had to import them from Japan only, and because of this monopoly, Japan charged 50% to 200% more than what other nations were paying for. So the meme that Japan helped Korea is utter nonsense given the fact that the loan was used to help Japan make more money off Korea. The only compensation for victims came from the $300 million ‘economic aid’ grant, a mere 25% of the total compensation South Korea demanded at that time. Again, Japan using euphemisms to deny the illegality of their occupation.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Japanese government with inconsistent stories yet again. Yesterday, Suga implied that South Korea was the one trying to improve the ‘mood’ and not Japan. Today, news that the Japanese proposed this economic fund. Habitual flip flopping by incompetent bureaucrats.

Good on the IOC for forcing the location change for the marathon because there’s simply no transparency when dealing with these idiocrats.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Now they are just denying it ever happened:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/29/national/politics-diplomacy/japan-south-korea-deny-joint-fund/#.XbfOEugzaUk

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Yes, this economic cooperation fund of $500 million was a loan with exorbitant conditions such that when purchasing plants and machinery, Korea had to import them from Japan only, and because of this monopoly, Japan charged 50% to 200% more than what other nations were paying for. So the meme that Japan helped Korea is utter nonsense given the fact that the loan was used to help Japan make more money off Korea. 

Read 1965 Treaty word by word, line by line once again

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Don't pay a yen into this bogus fund.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

I don't know who wrote this article; however, both South Korea and Japan has officially denied working on any kind of fund together. You can find the official denial by both parties on BBC, NYTimes, JapanTimes, and KoreaTimes.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Japan should Alys put a third country in between whenever they deal with SK otherwise it will b a never ending whining from SK so be careful Japan. Don't give SK even a real stool forget abt a single yen

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Samit BasuToday  01:12 pm JST

It takes 11 minutes for a NK ballistic missile to land on Tokyo.

Without the early warning from Korea, Japanese radar will pick up the NK ballistic missile 5 minutes before impact and that's too late to attempt an interception.

5 minutes, 15 minutes... it doesn't matter because no missile will ever be fired at Japan intentionally to destroy a target either military or civillian.

Because he was the former Japanese defense minister? You can be sure he knows about the security architecture of Japan. If he doesn't, then you have a real big problem there, a defense minister who doesn't understand how Japan's security architecture works.

You contradict yourself. You say in one sentence he's the FORMER defense minister, then you say it's a big problem that the (FORMER) defense minister "who doesn't understand how Japan's security architecture works." This doesn't even warrant a reply.

Because the US itself depends on Korean radar feed for missile early warning.

No, they include Korean radar detection in their post-launch intelligence, sometimes hours/days after the launch. The US depends on SBIRS satellite detection, as does Japan.

Of course Korea can. This is why a White House aid stole a presidential executive order letter from Trump's desk to preserve the radar feed according to Bob Woodward's book "Fear".

They don't care if South Korea leave GSOMIA. Therefore there's no reason to preserve a radar feed they don't actually rely on for real-time threat detection.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

JT posters have known well the basic attitudes of these Korean posters. NO way there would be any sort of peaceful settlements.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The clock is ticking on the GSOMIA termination, that's why.

Without the early warning from Korea, Japanese radar will pick up the NK ballistic missile 5 minutes before impact and that's too late to attempt an interception.

You mean like that last missile that Korea couldn't even detect and had to ask Japan for their data on it?

Pretty sure South Korea proved it themselves that they need Japan to be part of GSOMIA more than the other way around. Keep grasping at straws though.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

A former Japanese defense minister already has disproven you.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190823/p2a/00m/0na/005000c

However, former Defense Minister Gen Nakatani has dismissed such optimism. "If a missile is launched, relevant divisions among the Japanese, South Korean and U.S. governments comprehensively ascertain the details of the launch and where the missile will land in preparing to intercept it. The system can't function (with cancellation of the Japan-South Korea GSOMIA)," he said.

Samit, do you even read this stuff before you post it?

Nakatani is saying that the entire system will fall apart if South Korea scraps the agreement with Japan. He is not saying Japan will be helpless, he's saying they all will be.

The system can't function

According to this guy, South Korea is even dumber than initially believed because they will be putting all three country's detection abilities at risk, not just Japans by scrapping the agreement. But you go ahead and keep rubbing your hands together like South Korea blinding themselves is some kind of victory.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

That's because the world sides with Korea and condemns Japan on wartime history dispute.

That's because the world doesn't care as much and it's easy to to condemn ex-Axis on wartime history dispute.

Face the reality.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

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