politics

About 70 Japanese lawmakers visit Yasukuni Shrine

84 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© KYODO

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

84 Comments
Login to comment

It's nice to see, that at least 70 decrepit people will be AMAZED when I pull a flower from my sleeve. Just a question? how many of them drove themselves?

-5 ( +15 / -20 )

Oh boy here we go.

3 ( +20 / -17 )

Absolutely nothing wrong with people honoring the war dead of their nation.

I wonder how many war criminals rest in the military graves of South Korea and China (as well as the countries of those who criticize all things Japan on here).

-1 ( +31 / -32 )

Call them "the 70 over 70", or the "nattering nabobs of nationalism"...

-1 ( +18 / -19 )

Absolutely nothing wrong with people honoring the war dead of their nation.

I wonder how many war criminals rest in the military graves of South Korea and China (as well as the countries of those who criticize all things Japan on here).

Brilliantly stated, old man. Every nation has a right to honor her war dead. Every nation has war criminals from past wars. It is right and just that these lawmakers paid their respects. If Asian nations start jumping up and down and screaming, too bad.

3 ( +29 / -26 )

oldman_13Today  01:58 pm JST

Absolutely nothing wrong with people honoring the war dead of their nation.

That's such a gross over-simplification you might as well be talking about a totally different topic.

-5 ( +22 / -27 )

Ganbare Japan!Today  02:15 pm JST

It is right and just that these lawmakers paid their respects.

And unconstitutional.

-10 ( +16 / -26 )

Well done! Yasukuni is in Tokyo. It is none of the world's business, were Japanese go to honor their dead. None of your business! It is time for the Reiwa Emperor to pay his respects to our nation's war dead. The world, particularly China and Korea, need to get used to it.

4 ( +26 / -22 )

Why can't they make their visit on their private time instead of as an official visit with the media? Whatever steps you make to reconsile with your neighbors over past aggression all goes out the window with this public display of pointlessness.

4 ( +22 / -18 )

Absolutely nothing wrong with people honoring the war dead of their nation.

Absolutely. If they just attended the anual memorial service at Nippon Budokan, that would probably stop al the critisim.

-5 ( +14 / -19 )

"I think the deceased people will understand if it was a judgment for the country," Hidehisa Otsuji, vice president of the upper house and chair of the cross-party group, told a press conference, referring to Abe's decision not to visit the shrine.

They're dead. I doubt they will complain.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

BlackFlagCitizenToday  02:31 pm JST

Why can't they make their visit on their private time instead of as an official visit with the media? 

I think that these visits probably are made in the politicians' private time as it would be constitutionally questionable for them to go in an official capacity, but they certainly make sure there's plenty of media fanfare and it all looks as solemn and ceremonial as possible. Of course they're perfectly entitled to go as private citizens and draw as little attention to themselves as possible, like everyone else who visits the place, but that would defeat the real point of the exercise.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

Were they visiting as "lawmakers" or "citizen's"? Always going to be a problem with the kami/names of 20 or so WW2 war criminals enshrined there. No actual bones or graves, just names on a paper. All the known war dead dating back to Meiji. Yasukuni Shrine is the strongest symbol of the extreme rightwing and always draws those types while bees to flowers.

Without those names would it still be a problem. They, according to the Shinto rules, can't be removed once placed there, so there'll never be a solution.

Will the new emperor continue has his father did and not visit the shrine. We shall see but I expect while his father remain alive he will not.

PM Abe and his ministers and his voting base don't recognise those war criminals as war criminals.

2019 is the 150th anniversary of the shrine.

I think more than the kami names of the war criminals, there's the revisionist war history on display in the museum.

https://www.yasukuni.or.jp/english/

0 ( +9 / -9 )

So they spit on China and other Asian nations just a few days after Japan says it wants better relations with China. Hope no one's surprised when China now protests this political stunt. They will, though. THey'll cry victim once again.

-8 ( +14 / -22 )

smithinjapanToday  02:50 pm JST

So they spit on China and other Asian nations just a few days after Japan says it wants better relations with China.

But of course. Keeping the ultra-nationalist, revisionist base happy with these ostentatious displays of "respecting the war dead" outweighs any such considerations. They don't get any votes or money from China, after all.

-10 ( +10 / -20 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine#Emperor_Sh%C5%8Dwa's_visits

> ....... On October 17, 1978, these fourteen Class A war criminals were enshrined .......

> Emperor Hirohito did not visit Yasukuni from 1978 until his death. His son, Emperor Akihito, has not visited the shrine since becoming emperor, instead choosing to send a lesser member of the royal household. On July 20, 2006, Nihon Keizai Shimbun front-paged an article about the discovery of a memorandum detailing the reason Emperor Hirohito stopped visiting Yasukuni. The memorandum, kept by former chief of Imperial Household Agency Tomohiko Tomita, confirms for the first time the enshrinement of Class A War Criminals such as Yosuke Matsuokaand Toshio Shiratori was the reason. Tomita wrote down the contents of his conversations with the emperor in his diaries and notebooks in detail. He left 12 diaries (1975–1986) and some 20 notebooks (1986–1997).

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Every year the same ol', same ol'.

They still have not learned anything during the past 365 days.

(I don't even want to talk about about years and history)

The comments don't change much either.

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

Of course you have the right to worship as many Class A war criminals as you want, just don't complain when others call you out on it

-4 ( +14 / -18 )

oldman_13

Absolutely nothing wrong with people honoring the war dead of their nation.

You're absolutely right. And if they chose a secular monument like Chidori ga Fuchi, everyone would be happy. But Yasukuni is different. Imbued with sanctity including by today's nationalists, it glorifies Japan's invasion of every single one of its neighbors that killed around 20 million innocent people.

-5 ( +14 / -19 )

Just imagine if all these extremely high IQ East Asian countries could just get along with each other ...

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Nippon Kaigi field trip

-4 ( +11 / -15 )

klausdorthToday  03:07 pm JST

Every year the same ol', same ol'.

They still have not learned anything during the past 365 days.

They probably don't think they need to learn anything. They keep on doing what they've been doing and the clueless old rubes in their backwater constituencies re-elect them anyway.

-10 ( +9 / -19 )

Never mind what the Japanese do regarding atoning for their past rape of Asia, focus on their apologies. Words speak louder than deeds, after all.

-23 ( +3 / -26 )

I visit Yasukuni every August on the 15th to celebrate the end of Japan's rape of Asia.

-15 ( +9 / -24 )

The world, particularly China and Korea, need to get used to it.

and the USA.  Since US criticism, Abe stopped visiting, not for China or Korea.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

and the USA. Since US criticism, Abe stopped visiting, not for China or Korea.

America is more powerful than Japan, so we don't have to get used to anything.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

Love the headline...about 70, no one counted? might just have used their average age as a number. Next year 80?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The dark side of Japan. I am completely on the side of nationalism; I think it is great that the Japanese elites are happy to be Japanese and want to stay Japanese, unlike the globalist crooks in the West. But Yasukuni is too much tainted with bad politics. These politicians should demand that the shrine get rid of the propaganda museum and the war criminals before going there.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

"Emperor Hirohito maintained an official boycott of the Yasukuni Shrine after it was revealed to him that Class-A war criminals had secretly been enshrined after its post-war rededication. This boycott lasted from 1978 until his death. This boycott has been maintained by his son Akihito."

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Good !

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Old man, Ganbare Japan

This is NOT about Japan's war dead, it is about war criminals! This pathetic parade held twice each year would NOT happen if the war criminals were NOT THERE at yasukuni!

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

War criminal? Which one of wars has ever been inhumane? Who the heck are these people blaming Yasukuni?

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Were they visiting as "lawmakers" or "citizen's"? 

When you’re in public life you do not enjoy the same rights of a private citizen. You can’t be a Japanese lawmaker and visit North Korea and say I was visiting as a citizen not as a lawmaker can you? No and no one does because you lose that freedom once you became a politician. If not so why doesn’t Abe visit Yasukuni?

and the USA. Since US criticism, Abe stopped visiting, not for China or Korea.

The US “requested” Japan on behalf of China and Korea. If China and Korea didn’t care would the US?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Why can't they make their visit on their private time instead of as an official visit with the media? Whatever steps you make to reconsile with your neighbors over past aggression all goes out the window with this public display of pointlessness.

If you understand the subtle and highly contextual nature of Japanese culture, you would know that THIS is the point. This is a message for the Chinese -- Just because we visit your country does not mean we are sorry about our past. The mentality of the people who run Japan is more akin to a very spoiled child rather than an adult who actually want to reconcile with others.

-9 ( +7 / -16 )

Yep yet again, unlike Germany, japan fails the atonement test. It's alright though. What goes around does come around. Eventually the atonement due east and south east asia will be forthcoming.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

The people in the photograph seem to be old. It is heartening to know that in a few years time they will be dead, and younger people will probably not bother with this little ritual.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

I would curious to know what these old lawmakers actually did themselves for Japan during the war. Probably absolutely nothing.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Miss anything? You didn't hit anything.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

No Komeito politician attended.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Visit the museum yourselves and see what it stands for if you don't know. There are other sites to honor the war dead.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Stirring the pot again. Losers

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

tina watanabe: "and the USA. Since US criticism, Abe stopped visiting, not for China or Korea."

So, bending over for the US is okay, in your opinion? Abe being a coward to Trump is just fine, so long as he isn't to China and Korea? That's a weird kind of nationalism.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

"So, bending over for the US is okay,"

No it is not okay. Trump has nothing about Yasukuni or Comfort women or Historical issues The reason? Shinzo Abe is playing Trump like a piano.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

"I would curious to know what these old lawmakers actually did themselves for Japan during the war. Probably absolutely nothing."

LOL at thinking behind the comment. Let us do some simple math Shall we? If the lawmaker who visited the shrine is 70 years old , then he was in born in 1949. The war ended in 1945. ?????

6 ( +12 / -6 )

they will be dead, and younger people will probably not bother with this little ritual.

Wanna bet.? Yasukuni is filled with young people. The tradition will continue. Bet on it.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

@Gambare Japan

Every nation has a right to honor her war dead. Every nation has war criminals from past wars.

Get your facts straight. The executed war criminals that were added to Yasukuni are not "war dead". They did not suffer one scratch in any military action.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

This is theatre. The intended audience is of course China and Korea. South East Asia, and the West, although with every right to be permanently aggrieved by the atrocities of the Empire of Japan, moved on decades ago.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Last October, the shrines head priest, Kunio Kohori was forced to resign after criticising the emperor for not visiting and claiming he was destroying the shrine.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Just to further understanding and not promote any particular view, my advice to anyone interested in Yasukuni is to look up what "Class A" means. It may not be what you expect.

The assumption that Class A is automatically worse than Class B, which is worse than Class C is fundamentally incorrect. The word they should have used is "Type" not "Class". I doubt people would assume that Type A of something, here war crimes, is necessarily going to be worse than Type B.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Since US criticism, Abe stopped visiting, not for China or Korea.

Maybe he stoped bisiting out of respect for Japans own Head of State (Akihito).

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

It is time for the Reiwa Emperor to pay his respects to our nation's war dead.

The reigning emperor has paid his respects to the war dead every year on August 15 since 1952. Since 1965, the service has been held at the Budokan in Tokyo.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Let's ban the media to shrine, so people can have their privacy to practice their beliefs.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

LOL at thinking behind the comment. Let us do some simple math Shall we? If the lawmaker who visited the shrine is 70 years old , then he was in born in 1949. The war ended in 1945. ?????

Lets re-phase. I wonder how many of those lawmakers have ever served in the SDF.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

its a (semi) free country nobody can tell Japanese what do do in Japan.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Koyasan's Okunoin Temple has a monument to more than 1,000 "Showa martyrs," referring to soldiers who fought in World War Two in the name of the late Showa Emperor (Hirohito). The monument also honours 14 "Class A" war criminals who were military leaders.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There is nothing wrong with paying respect to the those served in the military of any country if they died fighting for what what they believe, some fight to protect their country, some fight to avenge it , some fight for religion, and Japan in WW2 fight for laughs and giggles or for fun. That's why mass media coverage of politicians showing respect to past military leaders that was clearly the aggressors is controversial. You don't see the German Chancellor go and pay respect to the Nazis shrine ( because at the end of the day, there is a right and wrong) Japan was definitely wrong considering. Hiroshima is proof .

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Dango bongToday  06:13 am JST

its a (semi) free country nobody can tell Japanese what do do in Japan.

They have their own constitution to do that. It's quite clear about politicians and religious activities.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

alwaysspeakingwisdomApr. 23  10:40 pm JST

"So, bending over for the US is okay,"

No it is not okay. Trump has nothing about Yasukuni or Comfort women or Historical issues

He's got plenty about unfair Japanese trade practices and punishing Japan if they import oil from Iran. You know, really important stuff.

The reason? Shinzo Abe is playing Trump like a piano.

He must be a terrible piano player then.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

BAD FOR THE SHINTO

°

They are taking huge risk with japan freedom. That is a very naïve position in a world were religion is making a come back. Shinto did took back some very wrong people instead of ruling head by head their cases.

I would expect a deeper analysis from Japantoday into the international language.

Those law makers are they republicans ? They want to go against the emperor ruling here ? They should make a proper statement so the Japanese people can properly vote the next time. That is not just the law maker problem here, this is the people choice.

Lords thinks they would stay more free to rule without the emperor surveillance ? Or, the shinto is making a political movement and want to get ride of the emperor to control the lord without living god assistance or watchful eye ?

This is smelling like Danemark here. Power hidden gave is a britannic game that should come into religious matter.

°

NadAge

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

This always happens when Japan pretends to "get along" with her neighbors, they pull this stunt to cater their right-wing fossils.

I guess their MSDF naval ship visiting China recently gave too much cringe, and they needed to balance it out a bit. They've got to let Xi know how they feel before he visits.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

I never understood why China and South Korea protested the visits. They should just be thankful that America dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. If it weren't for those nukes, more innocent lives in throughout China and Asia would have perished let alone more American soldiers.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

People need to get over all of this. Yes, Japan has war dead. Are you expecting the lawmakers to pay one last visit, collectively spit on the graves and then bulldoze it over and build a baseball stadium there? Of course not. And Japan's recollection of WWII is only a pair of atomic bombs dropped on it, not actually partnering with Hitler. If you listen to Japan's version, you'd have the impression Japan was the Switzerland of Asia during WWII and was an innocent victim of a double atomic bombing.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

A lot of the dudes buried there are people who were forced to goto war and ended up dying because of that. There is nothing wrong with respecting the dead for their poor sacrifice. I do not understand why China and Korea goes crazy over it. I mean does it really make a big difference to them?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Where's a controversy when American politicians pay respect to their fallen soldiers at the Arlington National Cemetery? I don't hear Vietnamese, German, Italian, or even Japanese people loudly protesting every year over this.

The Yasukuni is to Japan what the Arlington National Cemetery is.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

ShavedNuts and chromeheart88, there are no people buried in Yasukuni.

There is a record of names, though.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

WillowToday  04:27 pm JST

The Yasukuni is to Japan what the Arlington National Cemetery is.

No. It really isn't. One is private, the other is government property. Establishing a Japanese equivalent of Arlington has been discussed but the discussions have never led to anything.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

No. It really isn't. One is private, the other is government property. Establishing a Japanese equivalent of Arlington has been discussed but the discussions have never led to anything.

Private or national, doesn't really matter. If you have ever visit Yushu-kan, you would know. THEY took off after promising with each other " See you at Yasukuni, again". It's not the issue outside laymen keep posting, but the issue to be decided by the ones who sleep there and the ones who visit and meet them.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

showchinmonoToday  08:54 pm JST

Private or national, doesn't really matter. 

From a constitutional point of view it certainly does matter. Anyone can go to Yasukuni in a private capacity as much as they want, but politicians' duties do not involve participation in religious activities. Anyone who doesn't like it should push for a constitutional amendment to end the separation of government and religion.

THEY took off after promising with each other " See you at Yasukuni, again".

Now apparently they're stuck sharing the place with the souls of the people who sent them off to get killed. That must make for a fun afterlife.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

What a true stain on humanity. This place needs to be bulldozed down. There's no better way to NOT LEARN from history than to continue to herald virulent ideology and tradition of Japanese war criminals and racist, militaristic aggression.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

It's interesting how little in the way of coherent, convincing arguments in favour of the shrine visits there is, isn't it. The best the pro-Yasukuni lot seem to be able to manage is half a dozen down votes.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Ha. See what I mean? At least 7 down votes for every comment criticizing these shameless old neo-nazi parasites, but none of the down voters have anything to say for themselves. No wonder Japanese politicians can't get any overseas support over this issue. Their brazen PR stunts are inexcusable.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Simon FostonApr. 24  11:14 pm JST

showchinmonoToday  08:54 pm JST

Private or national, doesn't really matter. 

From a constitutional point of view it certainly does matter. Anyone can go to Yasukuni in a private capacity as much as they want, but politicians' duties do not involve participation in religious activities. Anyone who doesn't like it should push for a constitutional amendment to end the separation of government and religion.

I think that these visits probably are made in the politicians' private time as it would be constitutionally questionable for them to go in an official capacity, but they certainly make sure there's plenty of media fanfare and it all looks as solemn and ceremonial as possible. Of course they're perfectly entitled to go as private citizens and draw as little attention to themselves as possible, like everyone else who visits the place, but that would defeat the real point of the exercise.

Aren't you making inconsistent statements? What about politicians visiting Meiji-Jinguu, Ise-Jinguu?

What's your problem? separation of government and religion? or  these shameless old neo-nazi parasites?

Now apparently they're stuck sharing the place with the souls of the people who sent them off to get killed. That must make for a fun afterlife.

The ones who ordered and the ones who took the orders sleep together in Arlington or S.Korean National Cemetery, War memorial facilities in every other nations. All the same aren't they?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

showchinmonoToday  10:09 am JST

Aren't you making inconsistent statements? What about politicians visiting Meiji-Jinguu, Ise-Jinguu?

What about it? They should only go to those shrines in their free time as well, and the media should stay away.

War memorial facilities in every other nations. All the same aren't they?

No. They're not. Japan has public war memorial facilities like other countries do. Yasukuni is privately owned. That's been pointed out more than once, did you somehow miss it?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Simon Foston

You mentoned..

I think that these visits probably are made in the politicians' private time as it would be constitutionally questionable for them to go in an official capacity,

Leave them alone if you think so, then.

> but they certainly make sure there's plenty of media fanfare and it all looks as solemn and ceremonial as possible. Of course they're perfectly entitled to go as private citizens and draw as little attention to themselves as possible, like everyone else who visits the place, but that would defeat the real point of the exercise.

As this news report explains

*The shrine's annual spring and autumn festivals are its most important events. **The lawmaker group's members usually visit Yasukuni during the two festivals, as well as on Aug 15, the anniversary of Japan's surrender in World War II.*

What else should they do knowing when the most important events are held. If you want to blame media, do so somewhere else.

No. They're not. Japan has public war memorial facilities like other countries do. Yasukuni is privately owned. That's been pointed out more than once, did you somehow miss it?

National or Private does not matter I have already pointed out。Historical Tradition does.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

showchinmonoToday  12:04 pm JST

Simon Foston

You mentoned..

I think that these visits probably are made in the politicians' private time as it would be constitutionally questionable for them to go in an official capacity,

"Leave them alone if you think so, then."

I would if I didn't think they were exploiting the issue of the war dead to get media attention.

**The shrine's annual spring and autumn festivals are its most important events. **The lawmaker group's members usually visit Yasukuni during the two festivals, as well as on Aug 15, the anniversary of Japan's surrender in World War II.**

What else should they do knowing when the most important events are held.

Go in their private time, not in big groups with other politicians, and tell no one about it.

National or Private does not matter I have already pointed out。Historical Tradition does.

Nonsense. Those seventy Diet members don't give two hoots about historical tradition.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Simon FostonToday  01:12 pm JST

showchinmonoToday  12:04 pm JST

Simon Foston

You mentoned..

I think that these visits probably are made in the politicians' private time as it would be constitutionally questionable for them to go in an official capacity,

"Leave them alone if you think so, then."

I would if I didn't think they were exploiting the issue of the war dead to get media attention.

The most important annual events and the dates are known already to media, not to mention, who waits for photo op on those dates. Bring your claim to media somewhere else I have already pointed out.

> ***The shrine's annual spring and autumn festivals are its most important events. **The lawmaker group's members usually visit Yasukuni during the two festivals, as well as on Aug 15, the anniversary of Japan's surrender in World War II.*

What else should they do knowing when the most important events are held.

Go in their private time, not in big groups with other politicians, and tell no one about it.

The dates for those events fixed. As for going with colleagues or whoever else, none of your business.

National or Private does not matter I have already pointed out。Historical Tradition does.

Nonsense. Those seventy Diet members don't give two hoots about historical tradition.

After all, end up with just speculation. so much for incoherent and convincing argument.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

showchinmonoToday  02:22 pm JST

The most important annual events and the dates are known already to media, not to mention, who waits for photo op on those dates.

They only ever seem to get photos of politicians though, don't they. Odd how well arranged that seems to be, for "photo ops."

What else should they do knowing when the most important events are held.

Go in their private time, not in big groups with other politicians, and tell no one about it.

The dates for those events fixed.

Then they should get time off work, shouldn't they. Or try to do something in their work hours that might actually be useful.

As for going with colleagues or whoever else, none of your business.

Why ask what else they should be doing if you're not interested in possible answers?

"National or Private does not matter I have already pointed out。Historical Tradition does."

"Nonsense. Those seventy Diet members don't give two hoots about historical tradition."

After all, end up with just speculation. so much for incoherent and convincing argument.

No... it looks like you got that a bit mixed up. I was asking if the pro-Yasukuni lot had any coherent and convincing arguments. Apparently not, if you think "historical tradition" outweighs any other considerations, like the constitutionality of the visits. Historical tradition can't be that important or I imagine there would be some much more senior politicians in the photo.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Simon Foston

They only ever seem to get photos of politicians though, don't they. Odd how well arranged that seems to be, for "photo ops."

 

Of course, media like (International) friction.  They sure cannot miss rare occasions to report who were there?  If visits were personal or professional? …etc.

 

Then they should get time off work, shouldn't they. Or try to do something in their work hours that might actually be useful.

 

How do you define their time off work? Are you saying they cannot do anything 24hrs/day & 7days/week  during parliament-held-period?

 

As for going with colleagues or whoever else, none of your business.

Why ask what else they should be doing if you're not interested in possible answers?

 

So it would be OK if this is a cross-party grouping and visiting together in their private capacity

 

No... it looks like you got that a bit mixed up. I was asking if the pro-Yasukuni lot had any coherent and convincing arguments. Apparently not, if you think "historical tradition" outweighs any other considerations, like the constitutionality of the visits. Historical tradition can't be that important or I imagine there would be some much more senior politicians in the photo.

 

 I bet you keep posting knowing the history of Yasukuni and how Yasukuni became a private, religious organization. So I ask you, Define Yasukuni-doctrine so that none should allow any sort of gray area in front of so –called constitutional consideration.  Is it the same as Aum or Souka-Gakkai? Or better or worse than CDU in Germany? Is it unconstitutional for the government to subsidizes Christian Universities in Japan?

 

Back to the very top, the ones who took off knew they could return home even without any piece of their  remains to meet their beloved and their beloved want them to sleep there. long history of Japanese tradition. Get it?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

showchinmonoToday  08:08 pm JST

Simon Foston

They only ever seem to get photos of politicians though, don't they. Odd how well arranged that seems to be, for "photo ops."

 Of course, media like (International) friction. They sure cannot miss rare occasions to report who were there? 

Seventy aging politicians must be hard to miss, especially if they let the press know beforehand.

How do you define their time off work?

Any time they're not engaged in whatever their job description stipulates, which I would imagine consists of attending Diet sessions, meetings with constituents and attending public events of a secular character.

 I bet you keep posting knowing the history of Yasukuni and how Yasukuni became a private, religious organization.

Is that what you bet. Why should I? The history is immaterial. What matters is that it is a private, religious organisation now.

So I ask you, Define Yasukuni-doctrine so that none should allow any sort of gray area in front of so –called constitutional consideration. Is it the same as Aum or Souka-Gakkai?

No, that's religious groups getting involved in politics, not politicians getting involved in religion. The Constitution says nothing about what religious groups should or should not do.

Or better or worse than CDU in Germany?

That's a pointless comparison. There is no similar separation of church and state in Germany.

 Is it unconstitutional for the government to subsidizes Christian Universities in Japan?

From Chapter III, Article 20 of the Japanese Constitution: "3) The State and its organs shall refrain from religious education or any other religious activity." From Chapter VIII, Article 89: "1) No public money or other property shall be expended or appropriated for the use, benefit or maintenance of any religious institution or association, or 2) for any charitable, educational or benevolent enterprises not under the control of public authority."

So strictly speaking schools with religious affiliations shouldn't be getting any public money. But it's not as if the Constitution is very strictly upheld, or else these visits would probably have to stop and the vote value disparity would have been sorted out long ago.

Back to the very top, the ones who took off knew they could return home even without any piece of their remains to meet their beloved and their beloved want them to sleep there. long history of Japanese tradition. Get it?

Yes, but I have no interest in tangential points like that. it has nothing to do with politicians and their covert re-election campaigns.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So it would be OK if this is a cross-party grouping and visiting together in their private capacity

Put a large number of politicians together and it looks suspiciously like political activity. Cross party grouping? Which parties? On that topic, just suppose you see one of your local representatives in that photo and you happen to learn that a strong rival candidate in the next election has roughly similar views on most issues but is dead against the Yasukuni visits. Which would you vote for?

Anyway, I'm going to leave that there. I'm obviously not going to persuade you that these ostentatious displays of respecting the war dead are in fact a brazen insult to their memory orchestrated for the benefit of a caste of shameless old crooks, and you are certainly not going to persuade me that there is any merit at all in what they are doing.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Seventy aging politicians must be hard to miss, especially if they let the press know beforehand.

 

No thanks for your another speculation.

 

Any time they're not engaged in whatever their job description stipulates, which I would imagine consists of attending Diet sessions, meetings with constituents and attending public events of a secular character.

 

So? What’s the problem with visiting shrine while they have free time in group? I asked if you are saying they have no free time to do whatever private once they become lawmakers while the Diet is in session ?

 

Is that what you bet. Why should I? The history is immaterial. What matters is that it is a private, religious organisation now.

 

Tradition does matter. They knew Yasukuni existed for welcoming their soul coming home.

It’s just you and your ilks think it is immaterial and you’ re not them and their family.

But I like and take your “The history is immaterial. What matters is that it is ….now” stance  for discussion on other thread. Don’t forget what you mentioned.

 

No, that's religious groups getting involved in politics, not politicians getting involved in religion. The Constitution says nothing about what religious groups should or should not do.

 

Do you know Koumei-tou(party)? Those politicians are not getting involved in Souka-Gakkai?  Visiting Shrine a few times a year is getting involved in religion?

 

 That's a pointless comparison. There is no similar separation of church and state in Germany.

 

The idea of separation of politics/religion originally came from West due to the fact Christians had too strong power in politics in every western nations. Was I wrong?

 

From Chapter III, Article 20 of the Japanese Constitution: "3) The State and its organs shall refrain from religious education or any other religious activity." From Chapter VIII, Article 89: "1) No public money or other property shall be expended or appropriated for the use, benefit or maintenance of any religious institution or association, or 2) for any charitable, educational or benevolent enterprises not under the control of public authority."

So strictly speaking schools with religious affiliations shouldn't be getting any public money. But it's not as if the Constitution is very strictly upheld, or else these visits would probably have to stop and the vote value disparity would have been sorted out long ago.

 

So Strictly speaking, this is one of the unsolved unconstitutional issues but you mentioned it’s not as if constitution is very strictly being upheld = Grey Area. So you believe Christian schools including ICU( where Japanese royal family attended) in Japan stop receiving government support. Yes? And you believe Japan

should cease paying livelihood protection money or any public support for foreigners immediate. Yes?

What’s your real problem unable to leave this Yasukuni-visit only in grey area.   

 

Yes, but I have no interest in tangential points like that. it has nothing to do with politicians and their covert re-election campaigns.

 

It has everything to do with this Yasukuni-issues. I am not interested in constitutional nitpicking debates either.

 

 

The link below is official cabinet’s reply to the Diet deliberations long time ago made by Shintro-Abe (his father)

 

https://www.kantei.go.jp/jp/singi/tuitou/dai2/siryo1_4.html

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If we all ignore this "Shrine" and place it into "insignificance!"... then what ?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Incidentally, I visited associated War museum during my early days here, and found that they had they had newspaper articles "promoting" their attack on Perl Harbor on show... coupled with the Brown/Black-shirt activists who drive around places such as Azabu blaring rather pre-war Nationalistic slogans, of late, it's becoming a bit concerning. Are we seeing a rise in "Patriotism" or "Nationalism" and which side has an end-game ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

mmwkdwToday  12:42 am JST

If we all ignore this "Shrine" and place it into "insignificance!"... then what ?

If the politicians would stop visiting there would be no fuss. But they can't. It's how they stay in the good books of people they need for re-election, like Shinto shrine associations, veterans' relatives groups and those morons in the loudspeaker trucks.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites