Bloc against U.S. base transfer keeps majority in Okinawa election

The article does not give the result. Tamaki ended up with 25 seats, down one, with 23 for the opposition.

ｊjapan4life,

Well-said.  Thank you.

Yubaru,

The total area of USMC Air Station Futenma is 4806 square meters, of which private land is 89%. In other words, about 90% of the land where Futenma is sitting is privately owned. This land was encroached upon freely while area residents were incarcerated in camps like POWs. Official reasons for their incarceration was to keep the survived from harm's way because the ground war was still going on in the southern part of the island. Note, however, that many residents had to remain in camps several years after the war ended. 

This is not my personal opinion but haard historical facts.

Rather than picking this problem, however, you should try to refute my contention that Futenma sits on stolen private land whereby the U.S. has no right to demand Futenma's replacement be built in Henoko in exchange for its return.

Either the US bases should pack up and go home or they should pay rent at the same rate that we would have to pay if we used all that land.

INVALID CSRF TWICE!

Abe and his cohorts are irrational, cantankerous black sheep, I'm sure.

Are you, too?

Nothing will change, even with Tamaki keeping a slim majority!

The land where USMC Futenma Air Station is sitting was encroached upon with impunity while area residents were herded in camps for years after the Battle of Okinawa. That land encroachment was against international law, so that one can say that the Marines based at Futenma are nothing different from illegal squatters. They thus have no right to demand new housing be provided for them in exchange for their evacuation from and return of the land.

Besides, there's no strategic reason why the function of Futenma must be maintained in Okinawa or anywhere in Japan.

So the Abe government's forging ahead with the Henoko relocation plan is a sheer nonsense, a white elephant that must be scrapped all at once. Any rational-minded person will agree with me. Abe and his cohorts are cantankerous black sheep in this regard, I’m sure..

voiceofokinawa: "The land where USMC Futenma Air Station is sitting was encroached upon with impunity while area residents were herded in camps for years after the Battle of Okinawa. "

Futemna was agreed to be relocated some time ago, and THRICE, I might add, by Okinawan governors to boot -- so, you, being the voice of okinawa, agree with that... unless you agree you are the voice of a small minority, of course.

"The total area of USMC Air Station Futenma is 4806 square meters"

Which will be given back to Okinawa to make... what was it? a Disney Resort? of course, funded by the government using base money they get as a handout while doing nothing in return but spitting on the US military and federal government. Of course, it'll never be given back until the thrice agreed upon relocation site stops being illegally blocked by people who pretend to be irate one moment, then quiet down very quickly when a Chinese submarine goes by. So, the fact that Futenma is still open is 100% on you and other others who won't allow the relocation. Plain and simple.

Why not just let the JSDF take over the base and perhaps let the US use it if there is some future war with China?

Most of the work all ready completed at Henoko has been deemed unnecessary because due to the incompetence of the Japanese Govt. there has to be a major design change which is going to increase the cost several times.. The J-Govt. has to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to Japanese Construction companies for work that was not necessary. This location at Henoko was a mistake and this project has been a disaster from Day One. What the Japanese Taxpayers are getting with this Henoko Relocation Project is a tremendous waste of their tax money and a facility that is of little importance to the defence of Japan. Japan has a Ministry of Defence but no Defence experts, only bureaucrats whose expertise is wasting tax money. How anybody can still support this White Elephant that has always been just a large pork barrel public works spending project without any accountability is beyond me.

@DaveJune 8  11:49 am JST

unless the Japanese want to expand their JSDF into a military 

The JSDF is a military! Its just not an attack force for purpose of belligerence. Japan being an island nation with only two real military security concerns only needs a navy for protection, and the Japanese maritime self defense force is one of the finest and best funded navies in the world. Meanwhile its main rival China has junk for a navy and other rivals to worry about left right and center.

The JSDF needs no expansion or changes. U.S. troops and war machines can go home tomorrow, no problem. In fact, better for Japan to have that target gone.

I am always amused at several posters who are always anti- Abe and LDP except when it comes to Okinawa and then they become ardent supporters. So for all of you Abe and LDP Central Govt. lovers, I will leave you with this article taken from The Asahi Shimbun dated 2 May 2020;

A total of 30.2 billion yen (282.24 million U.S Dollars) in central government funding went down the drain after officials in Tokyo were finally forced to concede that some land reclamation work for a U.S. military base in Okinawa Prefecture was doomed before it started. The money was paid to construction companies that had been contracted to build embankments or reclaim land in Oura Bay off the Henoko district of Nago in the southernmost prefecture.

Funding was paid to six contractors, including work for embankment construction. The Defense Ministry was forced to alter the project's design due to the existence of soft seabed discovered in the bay, a situation that emerged as far back as at least 2016 but was withheld from the public. The existence of weak subsoil in the bay was detected in a drilling survey conducted between 2014 and 2016. Even so, the central government plowed ahead with the land reclamation project in December 2018 without publicly acknowledging the finding that would eventually prove to be a major setback.

All the talk on this thread has become meaningless, in relation to the topic of the article, Denny 's side won a slight majority in the prefectural assembly. In reality, he "lost" one seat, and it narrowed his lead down to 2 seats, 25 to 23, that is no "overwhelming majority" and is certainly no "mandate", all it means is the status quo will stay in place.

Henoko is moving forward, too late to turn back now! And eventually all of this will be mute!

It's about as thorny a situation as could possibly be imagined. It's a conflict between pragmatism and idealism. Pragmatically-speaking, the island's strategic location is absolutely undeniable, so it makes military sense for Japan to continue to allow the United States to station large numbers of troops there. On the flip side, the idea of a people wanting to reclaim their land and do away with the noise and danger (both direct and indirect) posed to the citizens is pretty hard to ignore.

And while we're at it, why not let the JSDF take over ALL military bases currently occupied by the U.S.?

Eventually that will probably happen, and the people will then switch from complaining about the US Military, to the Japanese military.

Complaining is the national pastime of these Okinawan's, they do not, and will not ever understand the meaning of what "security" is, until they are all speaking Chinese, drinking their awamori, and pining for the days when the US was here!

The majority of people in Okinawa are complacent to the issue, as PROVED by the referendum that was pushed down the throats of the people here, by forces outside the prefecture!

Oh there will be those that state that the "majority won! Look at the numbers, over 2/3rds of the people here were either for the base, had not preference either way, or didnt care enough to vote.

So 1/3, the "minority", the vocal minority no less, is dictating or at least attempting to dictate policy based upon that. If it were anywhere else, the people would be rioting!

 Pragmatically-speaking, the island's strategic location is absolutely undeniable,

Stick around here long enough and you will find that there are a few that think the people in Okinawa can survive by singing kumbaya around the campfire!

There is a hell of a lot of blatant misinformation that gets repeated over and over, on the surface, it looks like "Wow how can this be", but any tiny scratch on the surface shows it just smoke and mirrors.

Dont be fooled. Henoko is not a new base! It is a landfill off of Camp Schwab! (Anything else, and I mean anything else people say opposite to that, are just repeating garbage from anti-base protesters and is factually wrong)

Dont be fooled by anyone who makes foolish claims about any base legality issues. They were all taken care of during the reversion agreement 50 years ago. Everything else is just the proverbial "white noise" an annoyance at best.

Dont be fooled by people who tell you that "ALL" Okinawa is against the base or bases (plural) that is just plain hogwash" Even the base referendum only passed with less than 1/3 of the voting electorate voting against it! over 2/3rds didnt care, were for it, or didnt vote! (Always stated that the majority of Okinawa is apathetic to the issue and THAT proved it!

Dont be fooled by anyone who tries to state that the US Military demanded this or that, that is 100% false! The Japanese government came up with it, and per INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS the US agreed as well.

Dont be fooled by those that brush aside the very same treaties as not mattering in the discussion, and stating that Okinawa must be consulted and considered as being on the same level as the Japanese national goverment in discussing base issues here! (That is beyond ludicrous! Consider if that even was a possibility, the Nagasaki, Yokohama, Aomori, Yamanashi, and others would HAVE to be granted a seat at the same table as they host bases as well! Think of that cluster-mess! The very same people brush aside the argument that NATIONAL DEFENSE is under the purview of the national government here! And that local governments should have the first right of how to decide national issues! Hence barking at the US, when they should be barking at the Japanese government! Think about that, Okinawa telling Hokkaido what it should do for national defense.....that is just plain ludicrous, but in effect that is what they claim by stating the prefecture should be able to negotiate directly with the US military)

There is more! But the point is, dont be fooled! It's about misguided emotions. And it is sad, because they do not know how to negotiate, you either agree 100% or you are 100% wrong! Like a child taking his toys from the sandbox!

USMC Air Station Futenma is point at issue right now. The land where it is sitting now was illegally taken up by U.S. occupation forces and therefore that the U.S. has no innate right to demand its replacement be provided in exchange for its return. Furthermore, there is no strategic reason why its function must be maintained in Okinawa or anywhere in Japan. Other bases aren’t at issue now.

Even as you openly admitted, the US has demanded nothing! Now you flip-flop back???

You must answer the questions posed to you countless times here, regarding the treaties between the US and Japan regarding the bases.

You openly choose to ignore their existence, and keep trying to push your own theories that YOUR knowledge and opinions are the law, even when they are not!

You always talk about Futenma, but the "other" bases were obtained in the same manner, yet you keep choosing to brush them aside as if the ONLY base in Japan is Futenma. That is a fact as well!

Have no fear, Futenma will be returned eventually, and you can finally stop all discussions about it. Camp Schwab's land fill will continue, until its finished!

It is not all or nothing! You really should "live and learn!"

What questions have you posed to me countless times? 

Why do you choose to openly ignore the existence of international treaties and agreements between the US and Japan?

All the complaining and moaning you do about "futenma land this or futenma land that" are meaningless! You are truly "far" from the "Voice of Okinawa" but more like a person who is the "whiner of futenma".

I have a reason why I think Henoko relocation must be prevented. If it's allowed, the overall U.S. military presence will go on forever despite our wish. Besides, there's no strategic reason why the function of the Marine base must be maintained in Okinawa or anywhere in Japan. The air base or its replaement to be built in Henoko  is a training base, having nothing to do with Japan's defense and security.

There must be some reasons why you are so hectic about Futenma's relocation to Henoko. So I urge you to clearly explain why you think the Marines must maintain training bases like Futenma in Okinawa when the most active, core elements of them are to be deployed to Guam, leaving only support and command units in Okinawa. 

True, Tokyo agreed with Washington to build Futenma's replacement in Henoko. But this agreement is void because Futenma is an illegal property per se in light of international law. This agreement is like that between two fences over a stolen good.

I repeat.  Why are you so hectic about seeing the Henoko relocation come true when it won't contribute to Japan's defense and security? You sound like an authorized policy maker from Washington when you say, "Once the landfill at Schwab ... is completed, Futenma will be closed."

 Or are you in fact part of them, even though you once said you are a naturalized Japanese citizen?

Yubaru,

I asked you why you think it's necessary for the Marines to maintain training bases like Futenma in Okinawa. I'm waiting for your straightforward answer and explanation. Otherwise, all this relocation issue is nonsense and must be scrapped. Futenma must be closed once and for all. Who pays all the cost always?

Yubaru,

Nothing will change...

Probably, you are right because the Shinzo Abe government has no ears to listen to the earnest voice of Okinawa just as U.S. President Donald Trump has no ears to listen to the democratic voice of U.S. citizens, even trying to use the military to crack down their democratic movements.

Rather than picking this problem, however, you should try to refute my contention that Futenma sits on stolen private land whereby the U.S. has no right to demand Futenma's replacement be built in Henoko in exchange for its return.

Try to refute your contention? To refute your contention would mean that I agree with your supposition and that you actually have an argument to support your theory in the first place. (Never acknowledged or said anything either in acceptance or otherwise about your "science-fiction" ideas here)

Since you have no actual factual basis to base your suppositions on here, there is nothing to refute as there is no one, in any academic nor legal setting that even attempts to make or express, even remotely, the same or anything similar.

You also have zero support, nor acknowledgement, from any country, and international organization, no United Nation's entity, no government, no actual authority anywhere in the world. That is a cold hard fact!

Hence the only natural and obvious conclusion is there is nothing that I nor anyone else "has" to do anything, and you also MUST openly admit, 100% as there is no room for lee-way, that you are also 100% wrong in stating that the US "demanded" the move of Futenma to Henoko, that was accepted by numerous Japanese Prime Ministers.

Kumagaijin:

Why not just let the JSDF take over the base and perhaps let the US use it if there is some future war with China?

And while we're at it, why not let the JSDF take over ALL military bases currently occupied by the U.S.?

The U.S. forces in Okinawa are in a position to be able to take attacking (as compared to defensive) positoin if China makes any threatening action in the region, i.e, against Taiwan. The JSDF, per Article 9, is prohibited from acting in such a manner. Furthermore, the displaced U.S. forces relocated to Guam or Hawaii or wherever, would not be able to respond as quickly to the hotspot had they been in Okinawa all along.

Japan should be able to expand their Air Force, Navy and Marine forces and take a more active role in protecting the Pacific region against aggressive China or Russia, actions, but needs to change that Article 9, which they are unwillilng to do at the moment.

But are Okinawans willing to have their island occupied by the JSDF military forces again?

Yuvaru,

The land encroachment took place 75 years ago. So you say I'm beating a dead horse. No, the horse is still alive and kicking. It will never die as far as you keep giving fodder to it. The fodder here is the fact that the U.S. still keeps the air station and adamantly demands its replacement be built at Henoko.

Time cannot exonerate the crime the U.S. occupation forces committed unless international law is rescinded completely. Much less a bilateral agreement that was signed by Tokyo and Washington out of court (the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement).

This is my opinion, of course. You must refute it logically and convincingly without simply harping on your favorite cliche that I'm beating a dead horse.

This is my opinion, of course. You must refute it logically and convincingly without simply harping on your favorite cliche that I'm beating a dead horse.

The onus is on you to share with everyone here, what internationally recognized group, country, the UN, anyone with actual credibility, that supports your theory.

And I am not stating an "opinion" I am stating fact, because there is no one anywhere, that supports anything today that you talk about! No one, no where, with any credibility raises any of these issues, because you ask? They only exist in your head, and you are far from being a "credible" source! You made the accusations, the onus is on you!

Otherwise, you are just continually bringing up moot points. And dont repeat again you dont know what that means, because you do!

 Much less a bilateral agreement that was signed by Tokyo and Washington out of court (the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement).

Huh? Much less a bilateral agreement? You just defeated your own idea here, you admit the US signed an agreement with Japan, that put all these issues to rest.

You got a problem with it, take you case to Kasumageski, not here...oh wait, no one will listen to you there either! lol!

here is the fact that the U.S. still keeps the air station and adamantly demands its replacement be built at Henoko.

What again? Read the agreements that Japan made with the US. Dont like it? Talk to Abe, as what you wrote here is a lie, again! The US never "demanded" Henoko, Japan picked it and the US agreed, long and short, that is a fact, unlike your "fake-news"

Yubaru (Today 06:39 pm JST):

The U.S. never demanded Henoko, Japan picked it ...

The U.S. has never overtly demanded for Henoko, of course, but it must have hinted Henoko whenever the chance arrived. Tokyo bureaucrats exercised their famous sontaku ability and may have spoken of Henoko before the U.S. side actually mentioned it. The Marine Corps had already designed blueprints to make Henoko and the Oura Bay area huge base complexes, which Tokyo ureaucrats had known.   

The onus is on you to share with everyone here, what internationally recognized group, country, the UN, anyone with actual credibility, that supports your theory.

You don't have to go to various authorities to have your argument approved correct. Simply read Article 46 of the Convention Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, which states: "Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected. Private property cannot be confiscated."

Don't you think U.S occupation forces' freewheel encroachment of private land in occupied Okinawa a flagrant violation of that convention and therefore that Futenma-based Marines are illegally squatting the land?

Yubaru,

You must answer the questions posed to you countless times here, regarding the treaties between the US and Japan regarding the bases.

What questions have you posed to me countless times? Give me just one example.

Yubaru,

So you're talking about the 1960 Japan-U.S. Security Treaty and the 1971 Okinawa Reversion Agreement. What particular questions did you ask me about these bilateral agreements?

I have a reason why I think Henoko relocation must be prevented. 

It's an opinion, not a fact! Another thing, that all the anti-base people must acknowledge, Okinawa is a part of Japan.(Fact)

As the southern most and most vulnerable prefecture of Japan, Okinawa has a responsibility to assist with the protection (defense) of Japan (fact)

Japan as a country has treaties and security agreements with it's closest ally the US, and in those treaties, and agreements, Okinawa is a vital part of that defense scenario (fact)

As a part of the agreement the US gets training facilities along with providing assistance with the defense of Japan (fact)

Diminishing the footprint of the US military in Okinawa is a joint goal, and it will never be an "all or nothing" proposition (fact)

Closing Futenma is a priority (fact)

A replacement facility was agreed upon in said treaties with the US (fact)

The US demanded nothing(undisputed fact)

Once the landfill at Schwab (not a new base...another fact) is completed, Futenma will be closed (fact)

Also other bases and land will be returned jointly and Marines moved off Okinawa as well (fact)

Everything I have written above here are UNDISPUTED facts!

Finished! (Fact)

But this agreement is void because Futenma is an illegal property per se in light of international law. This agreement is like that between two fences over a stolen good.

I have only been stating facts unlike your conjectures here and "fake news" meaning "made up to support your opinions"!

It is not a fact and I will only reply to factual and accurate information from now on. Myself and others have tried numerous times to reason with you, but you always come up with the same excuses and misinformation.

So if you want a response, it must be from a factual point of view, and not an obfuscation nor deflection!

Here is an example; the following is NOT factual, just your opinion, You do not determine, nor are you involved in, in any shape or manner, in the decision making process regarding defense strategy in Japan. So this is not factual.......... you call over 20 years "hectic"? Lol

Why are you so hectic about seeing the Henoko relocation come true when it won't contribute to Japan's defense and security? 

I gave you a reply, here, but from now on....I will not reply

More FACTS, only about 1/3rd of the electorate in Okinawa, supports NOT building the landfill at Camp Schwab. Over 2/3rds of the same electorate do not, either they didnt vote, had no opinion either way , or said YES with their vote! (FACT)

People talk about lessening the foot print of the military in Okinawa, yet it has been over 20 years since the proposed close of Futenma, because JAPANESE politicians and OKINAWAN politicians couldnt decide on a location. (FACT)

Did they sincerely search in good faith? Totally a matter of opinion (FACT)

The US "demanded" the move to Henoko, is 100% wrong. The US demanded nothing! Only that Japan honor its treaty and security agreement! (FACT)

 I asked you why you think it's necessary for the Marines to maintain training bases like Futenma in Okinawa. I'm waiting for your straightforward answer and explanation. 

I have responded numerous times before, and no matter how much you try to twist the question to make some convoluted point, I am will repeat myself here again!

Otherwise, all this relocation issue is nonsense and must be scrapped. Futenma must be closed once and for all. Who pays all the cost always?

No response necessary, this is not a question that you do not know the answer to, not to mention the first part is an opinion, and nothing "factual". Time to go back to school to learn about the differences between "fact" and "opinion".

With the majority, Okinawa Gov Denny Tamaki will be in a stronger position to oppose the central government's plan to move the base, which is considered to pose a danger to local residents given its current location in a densely populated area of Ginowan."

Stronger? In reality he lost one seat, and holds what a 2 seat majority?

He couldnt get anything done before, and he certainly wont now!

Funny about the fake outrage people here in Okinawa make about Futenma. Always about Futenma, but ZERO about anywhere else, they have blinders on, earplugs in, and continue to live their lives back in the 1960's. They can not and do not accept reality that their opinions do not matter anymore, like the drivel of an old man or woman in a nursing home with dementia, they are tolerated, but not listened to.

Can't give up either, even though they were clothed and fed by the very people they complain about....aka biting the hand that feeds you!

Okinawa bases are different than in mainland because just about ALL the bases are on land that is owned by individuals and not national land. During the war, and following the war under occupation, land was forcibly appropriated for us military use. It's war, folks should finally grow up and understand that. No military is going to say, "Oh we cant use that land or go through it because it private"...that's just plain stupidity!

Prior to reversion, these issues were dealt with and with the exception of a couple, who keep beating dead horses that have been dead for nearly 50 years now, they keep regurgitating comments here

Some are just plain jealous, because their 1 tsubo of land on the base that allows them a "voice" on issues, doesnt make as much money as all the other landowners have been making for decades. Many make enough that they dont or never needed to work! And there are many that dont want the base to be returned, because they will lose that "free" income. But all agree NOW, that Henoko is the best location.

Oh and if anyone complains about cost overruns or anything like that, you really need to grow up about how things are done here in Japan. EVERYTHING gets underbided, and nothing is ever done about it. Stop being so naive and childish!

ReynardFox

Futenma isn't a conflict between idealists and pragmatists, as you say. I'd rather characterize the situation as a spat between greedy and exploited. We think there's no compatible reason why Okinawa has to shoulder this much burden, so that any base that may be superfluous must be closed and returned 

USMC Air Station Futenma is point at issue right now. The land where it is sitting now was illegally taken up by U.S. occupation forces and therefore that the U.S. has no innate right to demand its replacement be provided in exchange for its return. Furthermore, there is no strategic reason why its function must be maintained in Okinawa or anywhere in Japan. Other bases aren’t at issue now.

Anyone who supports the Henoko relocation, therefore, must answer the question I posed.  Some poster, instead of explaining why the Henoko relocation is necessary, only barks at the anti-Henoko camp like a guard dog, insisting the Henoko relocation must be carried out by all means whatever the cost may be.

It seems Washington has realized there are too many hurdles and glitches to realize the original relocation plan and so I'm sure they'll start saying they do not stick to the Henoko relocation plan any longer but will maintain Futenma as it is or as refurbished. Tokyo, on its part, will stick to the relocation plan and forge ahead with the landfill work, for pork barrel has already been deeply involved now as Japan4life often writes in his posts.  This is why some says it’s Tokyo, not Washington, that is now more eager and earnest to realize the Hebnoko relocation plan.

The last fortress of US in Far East Asia is Okinawa, S. Korea abandonment is visible near future. Geographically, Japan destined to be located very near to China, N. Korea and Russia and far away from USA. From my frank opinion, USA to be protected with Japan "wall" can be a military strategy, but to Japan be protected? hmm...

"With the majority, Okinawa Gov Denny Tamaki will be in a stronger position to oppose the central government's plan to move the base, which is considered to pose a danger to local residents given its current location in a densely populated area of Ginowan."

But of course, Tamaki will keep his hands out for the cash grab he demands for hosting the bases as he slaps the government and the US in the face and spits on the soldiers, demanding they leave -- oh, and he'll talk about not allowing hate speech or acts of hate in Okinawa while standing up for those who hate the troops stationed there that save them from being another Hong Kong.

Either the US bases should pack up and go home or they should pay rent at the same rate that we would have to pay if we used all that land

Again! Barking up the wrong tree! You have a problem with how it is, go scream at Abe! They are responsible for the agreement as it is!

You keep getting your understanding of the facts and situation screwed up! (And you are not a part of the "we" either!)

This is an extremely poorly written article here! You do not state how many seats each side won, you make a convoluted effort to make it sound like Tamaki won something big here, but in effect, he barely held on to the majority, and lost one seat!

If he had done any worse, he would have had a split assembly. Tamaki's coalition won 25 out of 48 seats, a net loss of one seat compared to the previous 2016 election.

Oh and only close to 47% of the electorate voted (worst ever) but this was also largely due to 12 seats being uncontested, 7 for Tamaki and 5 for the opposition LDP coalition.

It was far from a mandate, and was also affected by the corona virus, and inability of many candidates to get any crowds together. It was one NOISY election, because most of the candidates used their election vans all over the place!

Next time PLEASE be more clear with the results!

The land where USMC Futenma Air Station is sitting was encroached upon with impunity while area residents were herded in camps for years after the Battle of Okinawa. That land encroachment was against international law,

Opinion not fact!

>  Any rational-minded person will agree with me. 

No....again, opinion, not fact! (Sigh...some folks just never get it! Double sigh!!)