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Virginia vote on Sea of Japan hands victory to South Koreans

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This is an extremely bad legal precedent.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Chamkun

You are misinformed. President Park didn’t say that in front of US senators. She said that in commemorating the March 1st Independence Movement anniversary in Seoul. She exactly said "The historical position of perpetrators and victims will remain unchanged even after a thousand years have passed.(가해자와 피해자라는 역사적 입장은 천년의 역사가 흘러도 변할 수 없는 것입니다. )“ She said the truth like the Earth orbits the Sun.

Now, it’s proved CH3CHO distorted what President Park said.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

*mito

It seems that most readers have ignored history.

Which historical event are you pointing out?

suin kim

Recently, Korean President Ms. Pak made a speech that the Korean han against Japan will continue more than 1000 years.

As far as I know, President Park had never made such a statement.

You are right. She did not say the way it was shown here. Ms.Park was saying about the relationship with Japan in DC in front of US senators. She basically said Korea's position as a victim will not change for the next 1000 years.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

VA did not ignore people's request.It did not discriminate foreign born people. Maybe they were born in USA, or came from foreign country but at least they are not ignored.

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CH3CHOFeb. 12, 2014 - 01:43PM JST

I think you didn’t answer to the question “are you saying that Japan did nothing to make Koreans angry?” Instead, you gave a wrong lecture on “Han” which is being maliciously used by the Japanese right-wingers in Korea-bashing.

Recently, Korean President Ms. Pak made a speech that the Korean han against Japan will continue more than 1000 years.

As far as I know, President Park had never made such a statement. Please show your source.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japanese jingoism reigns here. It seems that most readers have ignored history.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The US senators are losing their marbles. If they think it is not fair using Japan as a pert of name for the sea, why East Sea? From Japan, it is West. It should be the Middle Sea? How come the area between Kyushu Japan and Korea is called Korea Strait? That must be the Middle Strait..........ridiculous,indeed. I know now all the issues between Korea and Japan manifest in USA where numbers of Korean voters are there. This is so sad. The some US senators work and use one's power to get elected to keep their position while they forget their mission! Not working for the US interest seems like. They even changes the principle for the world map that is there is no two names for the sea.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

That is what I mean when I said common sense.

I see. An extremely narrow and mostly incorrect definition of the concept then.

When rating the US on concepts of common sense, stern and responsible forethought etc, I was thinking more of the governments policy that goes like this ... hey, lets keep invading Muslim countries cause that's working out really well for us so far. And lets meddle in the affairs of other sovereign states like Syria cause we did so well in Egypt and Libya and Iraq and ....

In your little list of the supposed horrors of American history I notice you only list things that happened long ago. Is that you trying to pretend that no other single country has more blood on its hands since the conclusion of WW2 than does the USA?

Sober reflection my ass. Post WW2, compared to the USA, Japan is practically sainted.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

TreavorPeace1

Virginia's hardly the bastion of moral thought. Think slavery (supported by a Virginian president). Think tobacco farms and the devastation their product does to humanity.

Yeahhhhhhh, because what Virginia did in the past (and now corrected) is so relevant...

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Hidingout:

Name one American political, social, religious, business, news media leader openly refute our own hideous past such as oh, Slavery, Massacre of the Native Americans, Internment on the Japanese and Chinese, Segregation, Racisim..etc.

Name just one that has openly supported the aforementioned and can still show his/her face in public.

That is what I mean when I said common sense. Which you and the rest of the right wingers in Japan just don't comprehend.

Unlike Japan, we clearly reflect on our own history in a responsible way.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Virginia's hardly the bastion of moral thought. Think slavery (supported by a Virginian president). Think tobacco farms and the devastation their product does to humanity. I could go on, but it would require research. My point being, who gives a flying rat's a** what Virginians think about the name of a sea which most of them can't point to on a map?

-2 ( +1 / -2 )

VincehwrFeb. 13, 2014 - 01:37AM JST

I cannot imagine pro-Japan nationalists' reaction if those nasty Korean would dare name the sea to sea of Korea

Sea of Korea is just fine with me, because the sea was sometimes called so in English in 18th century, although sea of Japan was majority. The sea was never called "East Sea" in English, and that is why I am against the name.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Get rid of the name east china sea it should just be called east sea too ! No seas belong to any countries.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Has the World gone Mad ? How did this inmate get his hands on a computer !

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Thanks for that. Best laugh I've had all day. Analytical and responsible describes very little that goes on in US politics. And the "stern look at our own history" bit is just the comedic cherry on top. Bravo highball, well done.

I cannot imagine pro-Japan nationalists' reaction if those nasty Korean would dare name the sea to sea of Korea. At least where US politics concerned, it's a bit more sensible than Japanese Politics where LDP is dominating most of times even with the apparent nationalistic bias.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

But we do it with reason, common sense, and always with a stern look about our own history in an analytical and responsible way.

Thanks for that. Best laugh I've had all day. Analytical and responsible describes very little that goes on in US politics. And the "stern look at our own history" bit is just the comedic cherry on top. Bravo highball, well done.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

CH3CHO,

Ethno means ethnicity. But Americans are not ethnocentric like you Japanese, or Chinese and Koreans in that matter. Which is what makes us GREAT!! There is a reason why we have a Congressional Black Caucus, Latino-Jewish Congressional Caucus...etc. in our US Congress and many other caucuses in the state level. We are formed with a diverse group. There is nothing wrong with Korean AMERICANS voicing their pov and doing what they think is best for their group. Just like there will be nothing wrong if Japanese AMERICANS voice up against the change of this stupid name, which so far, no such action. Its a simple logic, which part didn't you understand?

Why do you think the former President Bush went on Uni-34 which is a Spanish language TV channel and propagated his entire speech in Spanish? Ethnicity and race is a major political card in our democratic society. Not one group should dominate its voice against another. Unlike Japan which really is an oligarchy instead of a true democracy. Put a vote to the people and let's see how many supports Abe's comfort women pov or his politically charged shrine visit.

Everything in US is about race, religion and political pov. EVERYTHING. But we do it with reason, common sense, and always with a stern look about our own history in an analytical and responsible way.

I don't blame you for not understanding the American way but your English is pretty good in a non-British way. So I wonder what your deal is here.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@CH3CHO

I didn't know that. Damn.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

igloobuyerFeb. 12, 2014 - 11:16AM JST

Um, are you saying that Japan did nothing to make Koreans angry?

Now, anyone can see Koreans are acting based on their anger and hate, which is called han in Korean. You have to understand hate and anger, or han are positive values in Korean culture. Their "justice" is different from justice other people think of. Their justice is based on anger and hate, and attacking the person or the ethnic group who caused anger and hate is well justified. They think they have to maintain the justice as long as possible, meaning Koreans have to maintain hate and anger as long as possible and keep the attack as long as possible. The longer you maintain "justice", the more people respect you.

Recently, Korean President Ms. Pak made a speech that the Korean han against Japan will continue more than 1000 years. She got quite a lot of respect from Koreans for the speech.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@igloobuyer Where did I say that the Japanese in the past didn't do anything wrong? My post was about the propaganda coming from anti-Japan, nationalist Korean groups. Nice try putting words in my mouth, though.

My question is whether you justify what these Vankers and online pro-Korean activists do with their anti-Japan mission. Do you agree with what they're doing? If so, why?

The Japanese army committed a lot of atrocities in the past, not just in Korea but also in other Asian countries they occupied like the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc. Yet these other countries have since moved on and do not have the same animosity or hostility--if they have any at all--as Korea does toward Japan. In fact, the governments of those countries are in good terms with Japan and the younger generation are more open to Japanese culture. Also, these other countries don't have the equivalent of VANK or other ultranationalist anti-Japan groups like Korea. Can you explain why this is? I'd like to hear any Korean answer this.

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genjuroFEB. 12, 2014 - 11:47AM JST @igloobuyer So basically by your rhetoric you're saying that what those Vankers and online pro-Korean nationalists do with their anti-Japan mission is correct and justified, correct? Do explain.

Nice try genjuro, I'll answer your question after you answer mine, that's how a conversation usually goes. :)

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@igloobuyer So basically by your rhetoric you're saying that what those Vankers and online pro-Korean nationalists do with their anti-Japan mission is correct and justified, correct? Do explain.

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zichiFEB. 12, 2014 - 11:25AM JST I'm just reading that New York State have passed the same law requiring the use of both names in school textbooks?

Yep, and I think they will pass it being a liberal state. Tokyo is going to be getting out the cheque book and threatening economic sanctions again.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I'm just reading that New York State have passed the same law requiring the use of both names in school textbooks?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

genjuro

Um, are you saying that Japan did nothing to make Koreans angry? Japanese have been just sweetness and light towards them? Do explain.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

KabukiloverFeb. 11, 2014 - 12:44PM JST

As I said, only rabid Japanese nationalists should be offended by this compromise.

No, this is not a compromise, because Korean government still holds that sole use of "East Sea" is the correct English name, and that co-naming is just an interim measure. To be qualified to be a compromise, both sides need to agree to the terms and stop fighting.

During 1980s, there was a movement in Japan to co-name the sea "Nihonkai(Tokai)" meaning "Sea of Japan (East Sea)". The movement gained certain support until the Japanese realized Koreans had no intension to drop their insistence that "Tokai" meaning "East Sea" is the only correct name in Japanese.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

genjuro

What is it about Koreans and their deeply ingrained anti-Japan programming? Even for gyopos and children of Korean immigrants born and educated overseas it seems that this propaganda-infused education continues and is passed on no doubt from their parents. The result is you have all these Vankers and online pro-Korean nationalists all over with an anti-Japan mission. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if there's any hope for the Korean people and their culture.

Gee, I wonder what it could be...can't imagine....I mean, it's not like Japan did anything bad to Korea right? I mean, it's not like they invaded their country, subjugated them under a cruel regime, forced them to learn a new language and culture punished them for using their own language and culture, murdered and raped their people, forced their men into slavery and young women into sexual slavery, or anything like now is it!

-3 ( +2 / -6 )

It just goes to show that there are lot of Koreans in U.S. who are bringing their excess garbage into the United States.

I saw the footage of that particular speaker. This is essentially yet again, a propaganda lace garbage anti-Japan education in Korea passed on for generations brought into the soils of U.S. Before this, some Korean students would vandalize maps in the library and place a "East Sea" on them.

IHO, two years ago, rejected Korea's claimed and ruled that only "Sea of Japan" would be used.

I agree. I would add that it's not only to the U.S. but also other countries they go to, like that Korean exchange student in France who complained about a Japanese flag. What is it about Koreans and their deeply ingrained anti-Japan programming? Even for gyopos and children of Korean immigrants born and educated overseas it seems that this propaganda-infused education continues and is passed on no doubt from their parents. The result is you have all these Vankers and online pro-Korean nationalists all over with an anti-Japan mission. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if there's any hope for the Korean people and their culture.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

All a bit silly in my opinion as others have pointed out it simply is that if Japan wasn't there it would be the pacific ocean nothing to do with "ownership", certainly no-one can deny Japan exists and referring to it as the east sea makes it even more of a unique Korean perspective... but at the end of the day there are far more important things to worry about.

What I will say though is Japan perhaps needs to have a rethink about international relations. Koreans and Chinese are far more widely spread, vocal and integrated into foreign countries and this of course means more leverage in both domestic and international issues.

I have no idea what it is that Japan can do about addressing the ongoing and seemingly never ending accusations of it being at least a shadowy version of its once unquestionably nationalistic and imperialistic self.. a lot of it is just noise of course, and if you live here or have visited here you would know of course the absolute majority of people are nothing like that.

However perhaps not voting in people whom appear to be more nationalistic and actually engaging actively to remind people that the Japan of today is very different could help a lot.

With China's increased claims and activities in towards the region Japan may well need a lot of friends very soon, and Korea would be an important once, one they would share many concerns with.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Hiding out - your post essentially comes across as 'he not American, he bad'.

I stand by my original point - there is nothing wrong with listing an alternative name for the sea used by a country that is on the coastline of that sea. The government of Virginia agrees. You are the one who is bitter about it. Too bad for you.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

According this http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/korea/agency-rejects-south-korea-s-request-to-rename-sea-of-japan-1.175687

Virginia will be in noncompliance with an organization recognized by the US (Virginia's international representative), Japan, and Korea. No matter what the validity of the dispute may be, the Virginian government has jumped the gun and has allowed a dangerous precedent to be set. A subsection of Americans with ancestral ties to another country has steered international policy at a state level, thus overstepping it's bounds. This is a weaker, less direct version Ishihara trying to nationalize the Senkakus about a year and half ago.

Funniest thing, when this bill is signed into law, a law student/college/civil group interested in geopolitics will challenge this court, whether they win or lose it will have to be sent to the highest court with Japan and Korea dumping money into the litigation. The question will be; where does international recognition lie with, the state or federal government. And the Federal Government is going to win.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

On the one hand, you dismiss this issue as frivolous and trivial and not worthy of serious discussion. On the other hand, you spend hours and hours of your time railing bitterly against Korean-Americans and their political supporters in the USA for sponsoring this type of legislation.

Not me. I've never said this was not a serious matter, that was Marsden. Here's what he said.

“I think the Japanese have kind of overreacted to this. This is not that big of a deal,”

Yet when he promises action to Voice of Korean Americans he says the opposite.

“What we call things is important, and names have deep meaning,” Marsden said. “This would go a long way in speeding up the integration of our Korean-American population, and making people feel accepted and respected.”

So its either "no big deal", or "deeply meaningful" for Marsden .. depending of course on who he's talking to. Love the bit about "speeding up integration". Marsden must not have been paying attention when Kim said "we just care about Korean heritage, Korean history." What integration?

Man did they ever play him for a putz. I guess he did get the free trip and the votes though, so not a total loss.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

And at last, nigelboy chimes in with his two yen. So I have a question for some among you who back Japan on this matter: You appear to be displaying contradictory feelings here.

Same goes for those who are backing Korea ("what's the big fuss??" crowd) on this matter. As for me, I don't see a contradiction on my single post on this article. Perhaps you are confused with the "collection" of comments displayed here.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@MASSWIPE

You took the words right out of my mouth; no second thoughts don't think I couda said it as well as you.

What is it that riles people so much about this terribly trivial issue? And like you said, how can it possibly be construed as being harmful, or as some have put it, 'hateful' of Japan?! I mean, they only wanted the alternative name East Sea put unremarkably and respectfully next to the well-know Sea of Japan.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

And at last, nigelboy chimes in with his two yen. So I have a question for some among you who back Japan on this matter: You appear to be displaying contradictory feelings here. On the one hand, you dismiss this issue as frivolous and trivial and not worthy of serious discussion. On the other hand, you spend hours and hours of your time railing bitterly against Korean-Americans and their political supporters in the USA for sponsoring this type of legislation.

That seems odd--railing bitterly against something you see as trivial. Clearly many of you don't regard what is happening as trivial. So tell us--what exactly is at stake for Japan's national interest and stature among nations if bills like this one get signed into law by governors of US states? And please, do NOT angrily declare that it's all insignificant and really means nothing. Because you would NOT be here on Japan Today writing as you are if you really felt that way.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

1) How do you know he doesn't?

I know because his actions are not those of an American. His actions are those of a resident trying to get preferential treatment for his homeland.

2) How do you know that he ever lived in Korea? Maybe he was born in the US or even 3rd country. Whichever it is, that doesn't mean he should forget his roots. America is multi-cultural, and Korea is one of those cultures.

Please pay attention to the topic you are discussing. Multiple news reports identify Kim as "Korean born". America is indeed multicultural. That means people who immigrate to America must be prepared to live side by side with other cultures. Kim's actions (and those of Marsden on his behalf) run flagrantly counter to those goals.

Besides, it;s clear from Kim's own words that he cares nothing for other cultures besides his own. Look at a few examples.

"I hope that other Korean-Americans in other states will try to correct their textbooks," he said. "It's not just good for Korean-American children ... it's good for all Americans."

Correct? As in we (the entire English speaking world) have had it wrong for all these years? How fortunate for us that Kim is here to "correct" us. Good for "all Americans"? What a laugh. Look at what he says next.

“We don't care about that. We just care about Korean heritage, Korean history.

Just cares about ROK history, and ROK culture. That's it. This person is unqualified to reside in the USA, by his own words.

“The entire Korean-American community in Virginia is very concerned about the situation, particularly related to educating Korean-American children about their heritage that is currently not recognized by the state,” Kim said.

Again, what "concerns" the entire ROK community is the only thing that matters to Kim. So please don't try to hide behind polite sounding words like multiculturalism.

Maybe. Give me some examples. I do know that Ayer's rock is also mentioned in many books as also being called Uluru by the Aborigines. There is nothing wrong with this.

I don't need to give you an example ... I already gave you four. Use your imagination. If everyone in America adopted Kim's attitude the government would be wasting its time on pointless bills designed to appease target demographics and the textbooks would be so cluttered that people would get even dumber than they already are in the State of Virginia.

Seeing as what "they" asked for was granted to "them" it seems that "you" need an education as to what is acceptable or not.

Oh, it was "granted" alright, I guess we'll have to see if it lasts. The municipal government of Glendale CA already regrets ever listening to the hate peddlers and erecting the statue in the park. See the link I provided above for an interview with the mayor of Glendale saying "we never should have done it". Americans don't like big mouths who come into the country and start telling the rest of folks what is "correct". Actions like the ones Kim has been taking are sure to backfire at some point.

Apparently they do. Just ask the government in Virginia.

You mean Marsden? Cause that's who single handedly made this happen. This is a guy who is on record as having taken money from ROK and made a "free" trip there to pay his respects to the comfort women. Please look up the word graft in the dictionary.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

It just goes to show that there are lot of Koreans in U.S. who are bringing their excess garbage into the United States.

They just compromised this time. What they really wanted to do is to rename it. I've seen many articles saying that some Korean ppl say that the name of the sea "Sea of Japan" remind them of the invasion from Japan.

I saw the footage of that particular speaker. This is essentially yet again, a propaganda lace garbage anti-Japan education in Korea passed on for generations brought into the soils of U.S. Before this, some Korean students would vandalize maps in the library and place a "East Sea" on them.

IHO, two years ago, rejected Korea's claimed and ruled that only "Sea of Japan" would be used.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

So what you're saying is you only came on this thread to express your hatred for Korea (not sure what it is 'they' ever did to you to fill you with such hatred, whatever it was let just say, in reality 'noting is personal').

I'm not sure what I ever wrote to make you think I have any hatred for South Korea. Are you sure you aren't mixing me up with another poster? Because I didn't express anything in my post to suggest I have any hatred for South Korea.

The people who are upset by this compromise are those who have a 'love Japan, hate Korea ' agenda. Which is pretty sad. Hey, I love both countries, and I don't actually hate any countries - it is possible you know, if you want it.

I love Japan, and I'm indifferent to South Korea - and I consider this compromise entirely acceptable.

A weak thought on so many levels.

I gave a good reason why the Koreans are justified in having their own name for it. They are on the coastline of the sea. Your counter argument - "a weak thought", without any justification.

-First, Kim doesn't live in ROK anymore. He lives in Virginia. He should learn to speak English and do as Americans do. If he can.

1) How do you know he doesn't?

2) How do you know that he ever lived in Korea? Maybe he was born in the US or even 3rd country. Whichever it is, that doesn't mean he should forget his roots. America is multi-cultural, and Korea is one of those cultures.

-Second, shall we allow US immigrants from Sweden, Oman, Guyana and Chad to add various names to English maps - provided the geographical features they would like to rename are near their home countries?

Maybe. Give me some examples. I do know that Ayer's rock is also mentioned in many books as also being called Uluru by the Aborigines. There is nothing wrong with this.

-And finally, you do see that if the Kims of the world had their way the English map would soon be so cluttered up with various "alternative" names for geographical features that we would no longer be able to see to what the names are referring.

No I don't see this, as I'm not an extremist, and I prefer to look at things based in reality, which is balanced, and rarrey extreme, rather than trying to skew an argument by going to one extreme or another. The fact is, there aren't 'Kims of the world' trying to rename everything. There was one group in one state in the US who wanted to make one addition to one sea that their ancestral country borders upon, to accurately reflect the reality of how that sea is called.

Yes, I'm sure that's what "they" think. However, "they" need an education as to what America means if they think agitating for special treatment for their homeland is acceptable to most other Americans.

Seeing as what "they" asked for was granted to "them" it seems that "you" need an education as to what is acceptable or not.

In America they have no such rights

Apparently they do. Just ask the government in Virginia.

No, its extremely unreasonable

No, it isn't. For all the reasons I've listed.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Igloobuyer:

" An American-Korean group requested to have the Korean version of the name added to text-books, "

Wrong. There is no "Korean version" of an English name. And English name is what it is. What is next.... do you want to go to Korea, and insist that they add new made-up names to their Korean maps? Like adding "Sea of Japan" in the Korean maps in brackets?

Really? And how far do you think you would get with that in Seoul?

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@hidingout

I also note that not one ROK supporter in this thread has challenged the notion that this name addition was bought and paid for by ROK votes and ROK donations to corrupted politicians. Way to export your long tradition of graft to the US. listed along with the other well-known name for it isn't unreasonable at all. No, its extremely unreasonable, for all the reasons hundreds of people have posted in this thread. And East Sea isn't well known - except in ROK. Most people will just ignore the name, much like they ignore the ROK.

Why so nasty?

The issue coming out of this thread is so the elephant in the room. It's not about this little issue with an alternative name for the Sea of Japan, it's all about letting out the little gremlin of hate.

I think you'll find most people do not think in a "I'm a this country supporter, I'm a that country hater". Most people generally like pretty much all people, I do. Doesn't matter where they are from - we are all the same really you know hidingout, we just look a little different and have a few different customs. Do you really want to perpetuate a hateful world? And please do not say the ROK are hateful - all humans have the capacity to hate, and the capacity to not hate so make the choice and don't worry about others).

Live and let live.

-3 ( +3 / -7 )

Because none of those countries are on the coastline of the sea, unlike Korea, which is.

A weak thought on so many levels.

-First, Kim doesn't live in ROK anymore. He lives in Virginia. He should learn to speak English and do as Americans do. If he can.

-Second, shall we allow US immigrants from Sweden, Oman, Guyana and Chad to add various names to English maps - provided the geographical features they would like to rename are near their home countries? Surely you concede that immigrants from those countries (and others) have as much "right" to relabel the map as Kim does - even if their reasons aren't based in a fervent hatred of Japan?

-And finally, you do see that if the Kims of the world had their way the English map would soon be so cluttered up with various "alternative" names for geographical features that we would no longer be able to see to what the names are referring.

Or maybe they think that the sea that they've been on the coast of ever since they were a country should also be known as the name that they use for it, since they have as much a claim to it as the Japanese.

Yes, I'm sure that's what "they" think. However, "they" need an education as to what America means if they think agitating for special treatment for their homeland is acceptable to most other Americans.

they have a right to have their own name for it,

Course they do. In the ROK. In America they have no such rights. What about the rights of every other American in the state of Virginia to follow their own traditions and not the traditions of ROK? Seems like you are suggesting ROK rights supersede the rights of others. I also note that not one ROK supporter in this thread has challenged the notion that this name addition was bought and paid for by ROK votes and ROK donations to corrupted politicians. Way to export your long tradition of graft to the US.

listed along with the other well-known name for it isn't unreasonable at all.

No, its extremely unreasonable, for all the reasons hundreds of people have posted in this thread. And East Sea isn't well known - except in ROK. Most people will just ignore the name, much like they ignore the ROK.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Stragerland

I wouldn't say I think that South Korea is particularly special, in fact it's one of the few countries in East and South East Asia I've never been to, as I have little interest in visiting it.

So what you're saying is you only came on this thread to express your hatred for Korea (not sure what it is 'they' ever did to you to fill you with such hatred, whatever it was let just say, in reality 'noting is personal').

The people who are upset by this compromise are those who have a 'love Japan, hate Korea ' agenda. Which is pretty sad. Hey, I love both countries, and I don't actually hate any countries - it is possible you know, if you want it.

If you're into psychology, they say that all hate is simply a reflection of internal turmoil being projected onto others.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The quoting on my post got all messed up, and there is no edit function on this site, so here is my second attempt:

Oh Lordy. How many non-English speaking countries are there in the world? That is how many reasons there are to not list what the sea is called in ROK on English maps.

Why not also list whatever the translation would be for languages in Sweden, Oman, Guyana or Chad?

Because none of those countries are on the coastline of the sea, unlike Korea, which is.

Answer, ROK thinks they're special.

Or maybe they think that the sea that they've been on the coast of ever since they were a country should also be known as the name that they use for it, since they have as much a claim to it as the Japanese.

Apparently you agree

Well, I think that because they are on the coastline of said sea, they have a right to have their own name for it, and that having that name listed along with the other well-known name for it isn't unreasonable at all. I wouldn't say I think that South Korea is particularly special, in fact it's one of the few countries in East and South East Asia I've never been to, as I have little interest in visiting it.

The country name "Nihon" "Nippon" in Kanji, is said to originate in the fact that the Japanese archipelago is situated in the far East from the point of view of the continent of China, and is therefore the origin of the (morning) sun [reference to Japanese historian].

That's not the part I was saying is ridiculous. In fact, what you quoted is the generally accepted etymology of the kanji for Japan. However the part I was saying is ridiculous was your extrapolation that this meant Japan is East China/Korea. At best (and still a stretch), it would be "Country to the east of China/Korea".

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

As I said, only rabid Japanese nationalists should be offended by this compromise. This thread has become flypaper for them. Most of them remain in the background negative. So let me say it again. The state of Virginia is not being anti-Japanese or pro=South Korean. They are simply acknowledging variants, which is the responsible thing to do. The headline for this article is bit too sensational.

Were I asked to rename this sea in question I would call it The Sea of Peace. That should only offend people who want war.

If you want war feel free to give this posting negative marks.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Oh Lordy. How many non-English speaking countries are there in the world? That is how many reasons there are to not list what the sea is called in ROK on English maps.

Why not also list whatever the translation would be for languages in Sweden, Oman, Guyana or Chad?

Because none of those countries are on the coastline of the sea, unlike Korea, which is.

Answer, ROK thinks they're special.

Or maybe they think that the sea that they've been on the coast of ever since they were a country should also be known as the name that they use for it, since they have as much a claim to it as the Japanese.

Apparently you agree

Well, I think that because they are on the coastline of said sea, they have a right to have their own name for it, and that having that name listed along with the other well-known name for it isn't unreasonable at all. I wouldn't say I think that South Korea is particularly special, in fact it's one of the few countries in East and South East Asia I've never been to, as I have little interest in visiting it.

The country name "Nihon" "Nippon" in Kanji, is said to originate in the fact that the Japanese archipelago is situated in the far East from the point of view of the continent of China, and is therefore the origin of the (morning) sun [reference to Japanese historian].

That's not the part I was saying is ridiculous. In fact, what you quoted is the generally accepted etymology of the kanji for Japan. However the part I was saying is ridiculous was your extrapolation that this meant Japan is East China/Korea. At best (and still a stretch), it would be "Country to the east of China/Korea".

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Eiji TakanoFEB. 10, 2014 - 01:45PM JST Who gives a crap about what it's called? Good God... people, especially some East Asians, need to find something better to do with their time. I think that the Japanese and the Koreans who are fighting over this should be ashamed of themselves. And stop being so damn self-centered and nationalist.. God.

Nobody is fighting over this, please read the story folks. An American-Korean group requested to have the Korean version of the name added to text-books, no big deal. The big deal comes from Japan'e excessive reaction to this move - threatening, what amount to, sanctions, on the state if she doesn't comply with their wishes. It's a win against bullying.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

The original name of this body of water was "Sea of Corea". Then it was changed to "Sea of Japan". Wouldn't "East Sea" (like "North Sea") be more fair? But Japanese are not reasonable people in general, so... fruitless argument.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

How utterly absurd. Nobody is telling Korea how to call this body of water in Korean, and the Koreans should not tell Americans how to call it in English. This is an embarrassment for Virginia.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Who gives a crap about what it's called? Good God... people, especially some East Asians, need to find something better to do with their time.

I think that the Japanese and the Koreans who are fighting over this should be ashamed of themselves. And stop being so damn self-centered and nationalist.. God.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Anything can be argued, that doesn't mean it has any validity. This argument is ridiculous.

Far from being ridiculous, this is a very standard argument of the etymology of Nippon/Nihon given at the top of the Japanese wikipedia page on the name of Japan.

「日本」という漢字による国号の表記は、日本列島が中国大陸から見て東の果て、つまり「日の本(ひのもと)」に位置することに由来しているのではないかとされる[1] The country name "Nihon" "Nippon" in Kanji, is said to originate in the fact that the Japanese archipelago is situated in the far East from the point of view of the continent of China, and is therefore the origin of the (morning) sun [reference to Japanese historian].

One might quibble and say that this is for the Kanji, which is true, but the phonetic name (Nihon/Nippon) is clearly derived from the meaning of the Kanji. Incidentally "Japan" in generally thought to be a variation (and or mistake) of the pronunciation of the same characters.

The same deriviation is given on the English language wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Japan

2 ( +2 / -0 )

They just compromised this time. What they really wanted to do is to rename it. I've seen many articles saying that some Korean ppl say that the name of the sea "Sea of Japan" remind them of the invasion from Japan.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

There is no reason whatsoever not to list the name "Sea of Japan", with an addendum that it is known as the East Sea in Korea.

Oh Lordy. How many non-English speaking countries are there in the world? That is how many reasons there are to not list what the sea is called in ROK on English maps.

Why not also list whatever the translation would be for languages in Sweden, Oman, Guyana or Chad?

Answer, ROK thinks they're special. Apparently you agree, which is fine, but just admit that these ROK nationalists are asking for, and receiving, preferential treatment from the State of Virginia. .

And other Americans don't like that. Pretty simple really.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

That will teach the Japanese to stop threatening Government officials.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

the meaning of "Japan" (Nihon/Nippon) could be argued to be pretty near to "East Korea" or "East Chin.!"

Anything can be argued, that doesn't mean it has any validity. This argument is ridiculous.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I'm a native of California and I'm gonna suggest that they create a bill to revise our school textbooks so that Virginia is renamed as East Kentucky.

Ha. Should Japan be called "East Island"?! But this is not such a joke (as CH3CHO seems to be saying, but he or she does not quite make him/herself clear)

In fact, Japan is now called something close to "East Island" by the Japanese, according to Japanese historians. See Japanese wikipedia on Nihon/Nippon http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC#.E5.9B.BD.E5.8F.B7

The etymology of the name "Nihon" or "Nippon" is overdetermined (also referring to associations with the Sun Goddess) but it on the face of it "Nihon/Nippon" means "origin of the sun" (country) or the "Land where the Sun Rises" (Hi idezuru kuni). Why?! The sun rises in all countries.

The reason is because the people that named Japan "Nihon"/"Nippon" did so with the awareness that their country was further to the East of China and Korea, and so from those countries' points of view, Japan is the Sunrise, Eastern Country. I.e. the meaning of "Japan" (Nihon/Nippon) could be argued to be pretty near to "East Korea" or "East Chin.!"

Bearing that in mind, "Sea of Japan", also means indirectly, "Sunrise Sea", or "Sea to the East", but without the island of Japan would be part of the Pacific, so I think that Korea should be happy with that.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It's only one of the many signs of the US hostility towards Japan.

It's not even a sign of hostility. If they had replaced the name with the Korean name, it could potentially have been considered a sign of hostility (and even then, that is still suspect, after all, it's Virginia). But they didn't replace it at all. Therefore nothing was done to Japan. And therefore it cannot be considered a hostility.

the US are playing a very ambiguous role in Japan/China dispute

What you call 'ambiguous', the rest of the world calls 'balanced'. They aren't blindly supporting the Japanese, as they have condemned stupid actions by the Japanese government (such as Abe visiting Yasukuni). While in turn, they have showed support, such as stating they would support Japan in the event of conflict, and flying through the Chinese ADIZ without identifying themselves to the Chinese, the day after it was declared. This is not ambiguity, it's showing support while expecting those being shown support to behave in a manner worthy of receiving such support.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

People who are bashing the current right Japanese government for this result in Virginia have a distorted view of US-Japan relations. It's only one of the many signs of the US hostility towards Japan. When DP came to power in 2009, with PM Hatoyama trying to get closer to Asia, the US were very afraid (a united Asia is bad for their interests, of course), and they made some moves that contributed to DP failure. So Japan shifted to the right again, and the US pretend to be unhappy now, since they "dislike" Japanese nationalism, even though they support Japanese rearmament at the same time. Plus, the US are playing a very ambiguous role in Japan/China dispute, so it's perfectly normal if your average Japanese citizen feels a sense of danger and starts to think that the article 9 of Japanese constitution should be changed. Since the end of WWII the US always told they will protect Japan, yet now they are like "uh...maybe...yeah...we don't know...Yasukuni...the dolphins...the comfort women...uhm...Japan is bad after all, so we don't know if it's a worthy ally anymore." Controversial matters that were always present became, suddenly, a big reason for the US doubting of Japan. But the truth is very simple: China is the most important commercial partner for the US, and both of these superpowers know they can't face each other in war, but they can weaken Japan role in the region, at least. The US will always find the way to bash Japan. They only want it serves their purposes.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I have no real issue with this ruling - so far as Americans go, I doubt the majority give two figs about who calls a body of water on the other side of the world what.

And it's not as if the name is being screamed from the rooftops as a massive territorial/historical shift either (at least, not by anyone other than the invested parties) so I fail to see why the huge kerfuffle has managed to get into the news.

I mean it's not like any OTHER body of water has many names, like the English Channel/ Le Manche/ Canal da Mancha/ British Sea .......

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

titaniumdioxide: "Or you can say "I got confused", the easier way. Told you so, proved me right."

Actually, that a few people didn't get the sarcasm wouldn't prove you right at all, but hey, you're the one who said you'd be confused by the addition of a name.

In any case, as I said, when the younger generations learn the sea with both names it'll only be people like yourself who insist it's confusing because of your refusal to accept it, while fobbing it off to "I learned differently!".

Sorry you lost this one, bud, but it's a victory for the world. Meanwhile let's look at Japan's reaction vs. South Korean Americans. Japan threatens to pull out business in the state if they approve the legislation. Japan gets in a hissy-fit and right-wingers go nuts, and other such steps. South Koreans in the US? They take a long, democratic process and peacefully see that the legislation goes through. No threats, no crying. Now, who are the babies in this picture?

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

cleo: Obviously I did a bad job of being sarcastic. Of COURSE Japan is on the west of the Japan/East Sea, and while a bit of Russia dips in to the east of it, it's obviously mostly to the north and northeast. I was trying to show how silly titaniumdioxide's saying the nations were not to the east of the sea was. Guess it was not clear enough.

Or you can say "I got confused", the easier way. Told you so, proved me right.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

titaniumdioxide: I'm sorry you will be confused, despite knowing both names and (a whole lot of falsified) history. But since you speak so much of, "Shucks! I learned it this way, so it will be CONFUSING!" keep in mind that the youth of today and tomorrow will learn both names, thanks to Virginia, and will be far less confused than the people who are offended by the idea of having two names.

cleo: Obviously I did a bad job of being sarcastic. Of COURSE Japan is on the west of the Japan/East Sea, and while a bit of Russia dips in to the east of it, it's obviously mostly to the north and northeast. I was trying to show how silly titaniumdioxide's saying the nations were not to the east of the sea was. Guess it was not clear enough.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

tinawatanabeFEB. 09, 2014 - 11:40AM JST cleo, if you are against this name chage by Korean Americans, then I wish you understand Japanase sentiments when some foreigners or foreigner-Japanese try to change Japan's stance of dolphin hunt by pushing foreigners value.

Wow, nice attempt at trying to link two completely unrelated issues Tina.

I think we need to get out of the child-like mindsets of 'us and them' and 'they are bad - we are all good'.

The Korean people are good, the Japanese people are good. There is nothing more to discuss on that.

The Korean-Americans, as far as I can see, had no ill-intent towards the Japanese in wanting to have their version of the name of the sea between them and Japan. The state agreed and the text-books will now be changed. Everyone should be happy with that.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

cleo, if you are against this name chage by Korean Americans, then I wish you understand Japanase sentiments when some foreigners or foreigner-Japanese try to change Japan's stance of dolphin hunt by pushing foreigners value.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There is no reason whatsoever not to list the name "Sea of Japan", with an addendum that it is known as the East Sea in Korea. The idea that it will be confusing to people makes the assumption that people are too stupid to be able to comprehend that it can have a different name depending on the country. If you want to get really specific, it's not even known as the Sea of Japan in Japan, it's the Nihonkai. If you are able to comprehend that the name Nihonkai and Sea of Japan mean the same thing, then you are able to also comprehend that East Sea and Sea of Japan are two names for the same thing. The human brain is pretty complex, and anyone who cannot comprehend that fact would be of extremely limited intelligence. Do we really want to pander to the lowest common denominator?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The two-line bill requiring “that all text books approved by the Board of Education ... when referring to the Sea of Japan, shall note that it is also referred to as the East Sea” needs approval by Democratic Governor Terry McAuliffe, who spoke in favor of the Korean view during his election campaign last year.

Please read the above. What the bill is proposing is that that area of water be called both the Sea of Japan and East Sea. This is a compromise that ought to offend no one. Except rapid nationalists.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Since China and Russia are almost always wrong on this board, then the Commonwealth of Virginia is right . East Sea it is.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@titaniumdioxide

it will confuse people.

Ha ha! Oh I'm so confused! Two names for one place, oh my, what am I to do.. I ..think my ...heads is going to explode with the confusion!!

Seriously though, come on, I am so very 'confused' by this very 'confusing' English;

Sea of Japan (also known as East Sea)

Oh, my head...dear..I sleep now,,yes? Okay

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

I just think it's funny you and others get upset about the idea of adding a name but yourselves add labels and gender pronouns to things when others would be upset by suggesting 'Japan is a woman' or something like that, but again, that boils down to opinion, which is part of what I was talking about.

http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/style-and-usage/grammar-rules-for-he-she-usage.html On Gender Specific Pronouns for Inanimates , second bullet point. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

BS. I expect this kind of thinking from insecure Japanese right-wingers who themselves believe in Imperialism

Truth hurts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODNbfQQuZLA "Sea of Japan" is a imperialist/colonialist name to the Koreas.

Already other states are talking about adopting the same legislature, and I believe it will spread outside the borders.

hoax, according to Mr.Kim:

I hope that other Korean Americans in other states will try to correct their textbooks.

Sorry, bud, but quite clearly it is also recognized as East Sea. Deal with it. If you think I'm only for one side of this, by the way, you would once again be wrong. I think countries that do not recognize the name Sea of Japan and only East Sea should also put both names in texts and on maps.

Yes, by the Koreans.

igloobuyerFEB. 08, 2014 - 03:55PM JST @titaniumdioxide Yes, I still call that body of water "Sea of Japan" and there are NO OTHER names New Zealand - Auotearoa, Mount Everest - Sagarmatha, Vitoria - Gasteiz, Derry - Londonderry, Ayers Rock - Uluru, Sea of Japan - East Sea. okay,..What..is..wrong...with..having..more..than..one..name!!??

Again, it will confuse people.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

titaniumdioxide: "Countries called with she/her pronoun is grammatically legal. Didn't you know that?"

I just think it's funny you and others get upset about the idea of adding a name but yourselves add labels and gender pronouns to things when others would be upset by suggesting 'Japan is a woman' or something like that, but again, that boils down to opinion, which is part of what I was talking about.

"They do.Their main reason? Not geography, but imperialism."

BS. I expect this kind of thinking from insecure Japanese right-wingers who themselves believe in Imperialism, but not from others... well, okay, from others in some cases, like you. These are the same people who deny Japan's past imperialism to begin with, or admit to PARTS of it but claim it is something to remember with honor.

"Again, my country adapted the international standard and taught us."

And hopefully those standards will change outside of only Virginia, despite your "not any chance, globally" comment. Already other states are talking about adopting the same legislature, and I believe it will spread outside the borders.

"Yes, I still call that body of water "Sea of Japan" and there are NO OTHER names.Same with the rest of the world except Virginia(and oh South and North Korea)."

Sorry, bud, but quite clearly it is also recognized as East Sea. Deal with it. If you think I'm only for one side of this, by the way, you would once again be wrong. I think countries that do not recognize the name Sea of Japan and only East Sea should also put both names in texts and on maps.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

@titaniumdioxide

Yes, I still call that body of water "Sea of Japan" and there are NO OTHER names

New Zealand - Auotearoa, Mount Everest - Sagarmatha, Vitoria - Gasteiz, Derry - Londonderry, Ayers Rock - Uluru, Sea of Japan - East Sea.

okay,..What..is..wrong...with..having..more..than..one..name!!??

Let and let live.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

smithinjapanFEB. 08, 2014 - 02:50PM JST Japan is a 'she'?

Countries called with she/her pronoun is grammatically legal. Didn't you know that?

SK doesn't think Japan 'owns' the sea by any means, by the way;

They do.Their main reason? Not geography, but imperialism.

because, like what you've "learned in school" they learned it was "East Sea". So if you're right about your opinion that it should not be changed because it's what you learned, they are right about it as well.

Again, my country adapted the international standard and taught us.

Standards change, and like I said, often for the better, as in this case.

Not any chance globally.

And no one is saying YOU have to call it the East Sea, you can call it what you want. There will just be two names on the map.

Yes, I still call that body of water "Sea of Japan" and there are NO OTHER names.Same with the rest of the world except Virginia(and oh South and North Korea).

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Ah, so it was taught to you that way so that way it should stay, eh? It's not being 'changed', it's being added to for the better.

LOL. 'For the better?' Thanks for the laugh.

For the better? For S.Korea maybe .Because S.K thinks Japan is owning it but she's not.(Not in the sense that it belongs to Japan, but It is geographically more appropriate that way). You are right! Things should stay the way they were standardised. It was taught to me that way because my country recognises the standard name for that body of water.

Correct. It's only 'for the better' for Koreans because they're so damn insecure about everything especially when it concerns Japan. As others have mentioned too there is no reason to change or add anything. This is yet another manifestation of the inferiority complex of Koreans that the world laughs at.

What is sad is that Koreans themselves don't realize how stupid their reasonings are. Like that Peter Kim who was 'horrified' when he saw Sea of Japan in a textbook. Oh, my heart bleeds for you, Peter and all the other Kims who think like you. You must've been weaned on a steady diet of cliched, sappy Korean dramas and seeing the word 'Japan' made you emotional and it must have been a tortuous, heart-wrenching experience. Oh, the horrors. Let's 'add' another name 'for the better.'

Pathetic.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

The sea is not on Japan's east? You need to go back to school and learn some Geography!

The Sea of Japan isn't on Japan's east.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

titanium dioxide: "For the better? For S.Korea maybe .Because S.K thinks Japan is owning it but she's not.(Not in the sense that it belongs to Japan, but It is geographically more appropriate that way)."

Japan is a 'she'? Interesting when we're talking of labels. SK doesn't think Japan 'owns' the sea by any means, by the way; they want the East Sea name added because, like what you've "learned in school" they learned it was "East Sea". So if you're right about your opinion that it should not be changed because it's what you learned, they are right about it as well.

"You are right!"

I know that. Thank you.

"Things should stay the way they were standardised. It was taught to me that way because my country recognises the standard name for that body of water. "

Standards change, and like I said, often for the better, as in this case.

"It will confuse people!"

Again, only stupid people.

"Saying "East Sea" together with "Sea of Japan" when it is neither Japan's and Russia's east."

The sea is not on Japan's east? You need to go back to school and learn some Geography! And no one is saying YOU have to call it the East Sea, you can call it what you want. There will just be two names on the map.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

@hidingout

Kim spoke of being "horrified" to see the word Sea of Japan in his child's school books. That right there is clear hate speech.

Eh? Horrified = hateful? Hmm..I don't see the connection, sorry. I also don't see any obsession by Kim, he simply noticed something in a text-book and asked to have something added. The only obsessiveness I can see is with.....yo...oh, never-mind.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Read the articles letsberealistic, or at least read the posts before you comment.

Kim spoke of being "horrified" to see the word Sea of Japan in his child's school books. That right there is clear hate speech. He also attempted to link the use of an English word (in full use during WW2 when Americans were sworn enemies of Japan - Kim doesn't let that fact get in his way though) to "Japanese colonialism" and a "history of "military expansionism". It clear he spends a lot of time obsessing about Japan, and teaching his family to hate Japan. Do you doubt that for a second?

I'm sure he's a real piece of work and would be proud to admit that he hates Japan. Ask him at the next meeting you guys have.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@hidingout

Kim went out of his way to make it clear that his efforts on behalf of the ROK are based on hatred of Japan, and you ask how "hate is being spread"?

Forgive me for any ignorance on my behalf, but how is requesting the inclusion of a note in children's text-books mentioning an alternative name to the Sea of Japan is spreading hate of Japan?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Look, It only became an issue when the Japanese administration made it an issue by protesting and intimidating (bullying) the state with severing economic ties if they didn't get their way.

Ok... ?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

StrangerlandFEB. 08, 2014 - 11:29AM JST Nothing wrong with a footnote explaining that the sea is known as the East Sea in Korea. It's ridiculous that this has become the issue it has though.

Look, It only became an issue when the Japanese administration made it an issue by protesting and intimidating (bullying) the state with severing economic ties if they didn't get their way.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Nothing wrong with a footnote explaining that the sea is known as the East Sea in Korea. It's ridiculous that this has become the issue it has though.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

It will confuse people Japan has not lost anything in this issue. The international community and rest of U.S. still recognises the body of water as ONLY "Sea of Japan I learned Sea of Japan at school

For the last time folks; they do not want the name CHANGED! They just want the alternative East Sea noted, in brackets BESIDE the internationally accepted Sea of Japan. Sheesh,what's wrong with that fa-cri-sakes. Live and let live already people.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

smithinjapanFEB. 08, 2014 - 09:09AM JST titaniumdioxide: "Coming from a country outside Japan, that portion of the map is called and taught to me as the "Sea of Japan". Why change it when everyone (except, y'know) agreed to call it that way?" Ah, so it was taught to you that way so that way it should stay, eh? It's not being 'changed', it's being added to for the better.

For the better? For S.Korea maybe .Because S.K thinks Japan is owning it but she's not.(Not in the sense that it belongs to Japan, but It is geographically more appropriate that way). You are right! Things should stay the way they were standardised. It was taught to me that way because my country recognises the standard name for that body of water.

"Adding "East Sea" will confuse people." Stupid people, maybe. Far more likely this 'it will confuse people' is just an excuse for not wanting the name to change due to the inability to accept that Japan lost on this issue.

It will confuse people! Saying "East Sea" together with "Sea of Japan" when it is neither Japan's and Russia's east. And NO, It's not an excuse for any random idea you can come up. It's just common sense.

accept that Japan lost on this issue.

Japan has not lost anything in this issue. The international community and rest of U.S. still recognises the body of water as ONLY "Sea of Japan"

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Yeah @MASSWIPE, the "left wing board" comment puzzled me too. Even if it were, the right wingers shout the loudest on here anyway. Lol.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

It's not being 'changed'

just an excuse for not wanting the name to change

?? Is it a change, or is it not a change?

I find this whole thing childish and petty. The Irish Sea, Gulf of Mexico, English Channel, East China Sea have already been mentioned, and we could add in the South China Sea, the Indian Ocean, the Gulf of Oman, the Mozambique Channel, the Java Sea, the Bay of Bengal and probably many many more.

The Japan Sea tells us clearly where this bit of water is - somewhere near Japan. It's a sensible name, it does not imply that Japan 'owns' the water. If Japan wasn't there it would be part of the Pacific Ocean. or would the whole of the Pacific as far as California become The Great East Sea?

The East Sea doesn't tell us anything about where the sea is; everywhere is East of somewhere. If they'd gone for The Sea to the East of Korea, or The Sea Between Korea and Japan, it would make more sense. If they want people to recognise what it's called in Korea, then why not ask for it to be called Dong Hae? If the Korean-American parents want their kids to learn the Korean names of things, surely it's up to them to teach them, not the Virginia school system.

All very, very silly.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

hidingout: So let me get this straight--you've lived in Japan for many years, and yet you maintain what sounds like a somewhat paternalistic, proprietary attitude towards political deliberations at the sub-national level in the USA because...you're a native English speaker? How exactly is "hate" being spread to you and your culture if you're living in Japan and this legislation will only impact what goes in a US state that's nearly 11,000 kilometres away from there? It's very strange for you to think that way...at least Virginians would think that. Your constant insinuation that it's somehow wrong for non-native English speakers to lobby on behalf of bills like this one in Virginia puts you squarely into nativist, far-right, Rush Limbaugh-like territory in America...but I guess you haven't lived there for a long time, so maybe you don't know that (I don't even know if the USA is your home country).

I've read hundreds upon hundreds of comments on Japan Today. It's not a "left-wing board." That's just inaccurate, and some of your comments here definitely do not qualify as left-wing. And no, it really doesn't sound like Peter Kim's ethnic background is just incidental to your disgust or what I call full-on rage. It sounds central.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

titaniumdioxide: "Coming from a country outside Japan, that portion of the map is called and taught to me as the "Sea of Japan". Why change it when everyone (except, y'know) agreed to call it that way?"

Ah, so it was taught to you that way so that way it should stay, eh? It's not being 'changed', it's being added to for the better.

"Adding "East Sea" will confuse people."

Stupid people, maybe. Far more likely this 'it will confuse people' is just an excuse for not wanting the name to change due to the inability to accept that Japan lost on this issue.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

This is inaccurate and needs to be countered. I've seen little evidence that Japan Today can be labeled a "left wing board."

Try reading more, or looking up the definition of left wing. Trust me, this board qualifies.

"Were you foolish and arrogant enough to believe that your visit to Yasukuni Shrine on December 26 would not reverberate and have consequences?" Because there's little doubt that Korean-Americans in Virginia were mobilized by that shrine visit to take action on this sea bill. Abe's actions and rhetoric backfired in the same exact way 7 years ago, when his obfuscation on the "comfort women" issue gave Korean-American voters in the US the motivation to push for passage of a resolution asking for an official apology from Japan. That resolution got passed by the US House largely because of Abe's blinkered attitude.

You must think I'm as dumb as Kim himself. I've lived in Japan for many many years. During that time I've seen probably twenty five Prime Ministers come and go. It has made no difference to the shameful money grubbing ways of the ROK and PRC who sits in the PM chair. They haven't stopped bleating and complaining for thirty years. Extremely disingenuous of you to pretend that the individual Abe has anything to do with some ROK immigrants inability to assimilate to America. ... but then I've grown to expect that from the ROK apologists on this site.

There's supreme irony in the rage-filled, apoplectic reactions among some of you who back Japan on this sea name matter--specifically

You have mistaken rage for disgust. And while I do back Japan on this issue, my disgust has less to do with the name of a sea, and more to do with sickening politically correct attitude prevalent in North america today which allows immigrants to effect wholesale changes on a culture they barely understand. I am further disgusted as a native English speaker that standard nomenclature for my mother tongue is being dictated by folks who have their own preferred language. The fact that Kim is from the ROK is incidental to my disgust and I would feel the same way if the stooges were japanese or French or whatever.

how you feel about what's happening in Virginia is probably similar to how Koreans felt about the Japanese government on the day Abe visited Yasukuni.

I doubt that. See I don't mind what koreans do in their own country. I fully support their rights to raise up statues, pass resolutions, burn the Hinomaru and turn themselves into the most racist country on Earth if they want. But don't try to spread your hate and propaganda to me, my language or my culture. Once you do that, yeah, you become an object of scorn and disgust for me. Sorry about that.

0 ( +5 / -4 )

Adding "East Sea" will confuse people. Only "Sea of Japan" is standard and accepted around the world, by the U.N. and among others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmUVm-sRIWwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkYpaPfFmPchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHz0uwGIrI

7 ( +10 / -3 )

MASSWIPEFeb. 08, 2014 - 03:59AM JST Abe needs to be asked about what's happening in Virginia, and somebody needs to ask him "Were you foolish and >arrogant enough to believe that your visit to Yasukuni Shrine on December 26 would not reverberate and have >consequences?" Because there's little doubt that Korean-Americans in Virginia were mobilized by that shrine visit to >take action on this sea bill.

Abe's visit to the shrine has as much to do with Virginia textbooks as the name of a body of water on the other side of the planet. In the 1940s when our country was at war with the Japanese Empire many Americans of Japanese decent fought for their country, the United States. in both the European and Pacific theater, even with their families in internment camps. In contrast the Korean-Americans are actively advancing the Korean agenda in America's schools and parks. An agenda that obstructs and impedes U.S. diplomatic and strategic strategy in the region. Sorry nut as far as I am concerned if putting up monuments and changing textbooks is so important they are welcome to go back to Korea and do it there.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

To the ignorant who think saying "Sea of Japan" recognises Japanese ownership, does the UK own the ENGLISH Channel because it is so named?

Maybe Koreans should learn to get over themselves and stop making everything about the past, whilst learning some basic principles about why geographical bodies are named - i.e. it is called the Sea of Japan because Japan makes it a sea, rather than part of the Pacific Ocean.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Dumb Virginians! As I have stated again and again, US national media, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc , keeps China, Asia issues as quiet as possible. I really believe the US, at all costs wants that part of the world as secrete as possible since corporations they have formed policies to fit that permitted these industries to move to China, are those that supports their campaigns and their bank accounts, so East Asia and Southeast Asia seems to have a government gag order imposed. Plus these tv News networks gets large sums for advertising by many of these large corporations as well. We know about not biting the hand that feeds you!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

"This is a left wing board, where Abe routinely gets bashed and Japan is thought to be mounting a comeback of Hitlerian proportions"

This is inaccurate and needs to be countered. Maybe not a majority, but a large number of people commenting here openly applauded Abe for thumbing his nose at Chinese and Koreans by visiting Yasukuni Shrine on Dec. 26. With regard to a whole host of issues (immigration, Keynesian monetary policy, taxation, etc.), I've seen little evidence that Japan Today can be labeled a "left wing board."

Abe needs to be asked about what's happening in Virginia, and somebody needs to ask him "Were you foolish and arrogant enough to believe that your visit to Yasukuni Shrine on December 26 would not reverberate and have consequences?" Because there's little doubt that Korean-Americans in Virginia were mobilized by that shrine visit to take action on this sea bill. Abe's actions and rhetoric backfired in the same exact way 7 years ago, when his obfuscation on the "comfort women" issue gave Korean-American voters in the US the motivation to push for passage of a resolution asking for an official apology from Japan. That resolution got passed by the US House largely because of Abe's blinkered attitude.

There's supreme irony in the rage-filled, apoplectic reactions among some of you who back Japan on this sea name matter--specifically, how you feel about what's happening in Virginia is probably similar to how Koreans felt about the Japanese government on the day Abe visited Yasukuni.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Next petition from the Virginian Koreans will be to have Japan renamed "ilbon" (일본)... and demand that no Japanese cars be sold in the state as they offend them and remind them of the war.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@CH3COH

Do you understand what he was talking about? Koreans want the name "Japan" out of the name of the sea. That creates another problem in locating the sea from the name. Why do Koreans want "Japan" out of the name? The article has the answer, and it is misinformed hate.

Yes it is. And its actually clearer than you think if you look at the article that was posted up a few days ago, here are some of Kim's comments:

Peter Kim, a Korean-born businessman in Washington’s Virginia suburbs who has championed the law, said he was horrified when he learned that his son was learning “Sea of Japan,” a name that Koreans call a legacy of Japanese colonialism.

He was "horrified" simply to see the words Sea of Japan in a textbook. Maybe he should have turned on his brain and asked himself why any English speaking countries would be interested in prolonging or embracing "a legacy of Japanese colonialism". His comments don't even make sense. The English speaking world has been using the name Sea of Japan even while they were fighting to crush Japan. Therefore, in America and the rest of the English speaking world - where Kim has chosen to take up residence - the name Sea of Japan has nothing to do with Japanese colonialism. Suggestions to the contrary should be considered racist propaganda.

“The Korean people have used the name for more than 2,000 years and even the Korean national anthem starts off with the East Sea,” Kim said.

Kim references the people of ROK and their anthem, as if either of those things are of any concern to Americans. But this is the kind of logic these nationalists operate under. I suppose if Kim were serious about becoming an American he would pay more attention to what that entails rather than bragging about the anthem of his homeland.

“We are not politicians; we are citizens, we are moms and dads,” Kim said. “When I hear about the Japanese government trying to keep the name ‘Sea of Japan’ only, it brings old memories back and we say: ‘hey, maybe they are trying to extend their history of military expansionism.’”

Again, clearly not advocating for equal billing as ROK apologists on this thread have suggested, and clearly trying to tie a long standing ENGLISH name to the "military expansionism" of a country that even now can barely speak any English at all. LEts be honest, his man just wants the word Japan eliminated from any place that his delicate eyes may chance to fall.

The man's arguments are so shallow and base that we can do nothing but conclude that the legislators who fell for them are intentionally mocking the other 7.9 million residents of their state.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Ridiculing or complaining the votes of Virginia legislature on the state textbook may be easy evne feeling good about it for some posters in this forum.

But, the real issues and challenges that Japan is facing would be that the ties with its closest allies, namely the US and S.K are strained severely when Abe was elected, especially after passing anti-democracy State Secret Act and inflammatory Yasukuni Shrine visit.

I think that Virginia legislature’s decision should be served as a wakeup call to Abe’s admin in terms of what steps should be taken in order to repair and strengthen the ties. One thing would certain if further erosion of confidences from the US and S.K continues, Japan’s strategic position and capability to respond to crisis will be hindered. Case in point, the US Congress may be reluctant to support any bill that may have a potential to shed American young solderers blood when it comes to defend japan.

Abe’s visite to Russia may score some point with China, but it may further annoy the US.

Abe should take a note that the Americans are neither stupid nor blind. Any elaborated explanations to allies may have little bearing when Japan’s actions spoke aloud.

For people who are not aware: at the end of 2013, Japan’s foreign ministry conducted a survey in the US regarding how ordinary American people and intellectuals/think-tank thought about Japan. The data complied were quite discouraging comparing with that a year before.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

What is one good reason why the sea should be called "Sea of Japan". Does the sea belong to Japan as the name implies? OF NOT! the sea is shared by the two Koreas and Japan therefore should have a neutural name. The name of "Sea of Japan" reminds people of the facist Japanese Imperial government

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

"I hope real Americans across the nation will stand up and make their voices heard. Make these Virginian legislators regret the day they allowed themselves to be bought off by such an insignificant section of the population."

Well, it's really strange to see backers of Japan on this matter resort to using the language most often used by nativist right-wing types in America, the sorts of people who point their fingers at Barack Obama and claim he isn't a "real" American. Let me get this straight--So Americans who aren't driven into paroxysms of rage and anger and frustration as you are by passage of this "East Sea" bill in Virginia are not "real" Americans? Many Americans who considers themselves real Americans would disagree and find it ridiculous that you're projecting your own strong feelings on this matter to pass judgement on the patriotism of others.

As for the Virginia legislators who voted for this bill--they know FAR more about the composition of their electoral districts than you ever will. In their minds, they made a rational, calculated decision that increases their chances of re-election.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Once again I reiterate, I think this is so silly making a big fuss over a sea name, and I don't agree with Korean Americans to get involved in this when there are far more urgent issues to be concerned about. But let's be accurate here. They're not trying to remove "Sea of Japan". All they want is to add the "East Sea" name to the text book. The reason why Koreans chose "East Sea", and not "Sea of Korea" is because "East Sea" is what Koreans have called it for centuries. Of course I agree that it's stupid to campaign for adding the "East Sea", because who cares what a sea name should be. I don't think most Virginians even know where Sea of Japan is nor most care about this issue, probably more annoyed that this is even a vote. The only ones who care most about this are the Koreans and the Japanese who are right now waging war of information overseas. But Japan seems to be losing so far, mostly due to all the bad international press that Mr. Abe and his government has brought to Japan. A lot of American government officials probably wanted to stick it to Japan (after they threatened Virginia with economic actions), and overwhelmingly voted for the bill by 85 to 15, no contest.

Smith, I think you're missing my point. If the battle were between "Sea of Japan" and "East Korea Sea", I might be more willing to see the Korean side. But as it is, the name proposed by the Koreans is completely Korea-centric and presupposes total, unconscious Korea-centrism on the part of everyone in the world that uses the name.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Coming from a country outside Japan, that portion of the map is called and taught to me as the "Sea of Japan". Why change it when everyone (except, y'know) agreed to call it that way?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

So while some of it is in the vicinity of Japan, it is also very much in the vicinity of Russia, NK, and SK, so I find it odd you basing 'vicinity' as the reason why some names should not be included.

Smith, I think you're missing my point. If the battle were between "Sea of Japan" and "East Korea Sea", I might be more willing to see the Korean side. But as it is, the name proposed by the Koreans is completely Korea-centric and presupposes total, unconscious Korea-centrism on the part of everyone in the world that uses the name.

The Sea of Japan is not "east" of Virginia. It's not east of anywhere, except Korea. And Korea is not the base point for locating anything in the English language. For a Virginian, to the east lies Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean. Those are the "east sea(s)" for Virginians.

A comparably offensive name would be the Japanese demanding to call it the "West Sea" because it's west of Japan. Names like "Sea of Japan" at least tell you where it is. Names that include only directions don't tell you anything, unless you happen to be the one deciding where the central point is from which these directions are measured.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Do you call ethno politics American Democracy?

Just ignore the sea name controversy for a minute and think. Which is a better way to get what you want? Use the votes and participate in democracy to get what you want (as Korean Americans have done in this case), versus, using bribes of senators and cities, and using economic threats and other temper tantrums (Japan's chosen method)? Japan has been using the Japan money to shower US officials with gifts for many years now to get what they wanted. They were successful to a degree but now it's wearing thin in the face of more organized Korean efforts. If you look around, Japan is losing out in every conflict with Japan, from the Comfort Women statute to this fight, to Korean Americans who are successfully using the American system to their own advantage.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

@CH3CHO thank you for taking the time to explain what you meant about the name. I understand what you were trying to say. Honestly, I don't really think it matters what we call a body of water or a country. It's just a label to help us find something on a map, or more likely the internet. So I don't think people should be attacking other people about a mere name (not you, this board in general).

0 ( +3 / -3 )

To call this sea, "east sea" isn't neutral... While this sea is located at the east of China, Corea and Russia, it is located at the west of Japan. To call it "east" is deliberately forgetting Japan. it is an anti-japanese action. Is isn't neutral. Why so much hatred against the Japanese state?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

highball7Feb. 07, 2014 - 08:15PM JST

And those Korean AMERICANS just showed you how to play the democratic game.

Do you call ethno politics American Democracy?

-1 ( +4 / -6 )

CH3CHO: "Koreans want the name "Japan" out of the name of the sea."

Wow, someone's paranoid. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the vote was to have "East Sea" included on maps as well as The Japan Sea. Show me where the vote was to have The Japan Sea removed altogether, my friend, especially given since the vote passed and now both names will appear.

"People tend to think co-naming is a good idea for reconciliation."

Yeah, heaven forbid! But rest assured with people such as yourself there will be no reconciliation because you simply don't want it and accuse others of being the aggressors.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

How about some parts China`s self-owned South China Sea be internationally known as West Philippine Sea, East Vietnam Sea, Northern Indonesian Sea?....at least those 200 nautical miles from each shoreline.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

smithinjapanFeb. 07, 2014 - 07:54PM JST

ThonTaddeoFeb. 07, 2014 - 04:41PM JST

Until now just about even the most dull-witted of them could correctly guess that it's in the vicinity of Japan.

If these Koreans get their way, and someone asks them where the "East Sea" is, they'll probably guess that it's in Chesapeake Bay. Because, you know, they're unaware that Korea is the center of the world and the base from which all directions are measured.

Do you understand what he was talking about? Koreans want the name "Japan" out of the name of the sea. That creates another problem in locating the sea from the name. Why do Koreans want "Japan" out of the name? The article has the answer, and it is misinformed hate.

The name "Sea of Japan" is widely accepted outside of Korea. But it is a source of bitterness for Koreans

People tend to think co-naming is a good idea for reconciliation. But Korean government still holds the position that co-naming is just an interim measure before agreeing to the sole use of "East Sea". The campaign will just continue. In such a case, co-naming is nothing but source of hatred. What we really need is solving the misguided hate of Koreans.

0 ( +6 / -7 )

Idiocy, the anti Japan Korean nationalists have polluted America.

What next, campaign to make August 'Comfort Women Month' in Virginia?

0 ( +7 / -6 )

I honestly lol at this. But I was more amazed at the stupidity of Japan threatening about Japanese investment in Virginia. Just look across Virginia, what do you see? Washington D.C. You honestly think US can be threatened by Japanese businesses pulling out of Virginia? Japanese businesses or lobbyists can't get faster into the region. This is as close as you get to the center of world politics.

And those Korean AMERICANS just showed you how to play the democratic game. There was a vote, a democratic vote and it passed in a democratic state senate. Maybe you Japanese need to learn more about what DEMOCRACY means instead of complaining so much.

Its true that its much to do about nothing, this stupid sea naming nonsense. But you failed to understand that the Koreans brought the game to the table and won. Which says a lot about them and says a lot about our viewpoint on Japan as well. Honestly speaking, most American see Japan and Japanese as an ally and a country filled with nice people. But most Americans also has a sense of doubt about Japan and the Japanese due to something you people seem to want to ignore and forget, which is history. We've got a good memory as well, its not limited to the Koreans or the Chinese.

We like Japan but its not more important than S. Korea or many of our other allies. So why is everyone surprised that Korean Americans wins out against Japan? This was proposed by Americans. Of course Americans should win.

0 ( +6 / -7 )

CH3CHO: "No one is saying that "some names should not be included" except Koreans and Korean Americans. And their argument is based on misinformed hate."

Ummm... are you sure you've got that right? I'm PRETTY sure the Virginian government just voted to INCLUDE the name East Sea (as opposed to 'not including it', just to spell that out), and if I'm not mistaken it's Japan who is against the move. So, what was that about 'misinformed hate' again?

"Did Thon Taddeo say that "some names should not be included" because of vicinity?"

He was insulting the people who made the decision to include both names by calling them dim-witted and suggesting they have no idea save the sea is in the vicinity of Japan. It is a sea, which stretches from coast to coast and touches all the nations I mentioned from the Korea Strait up to the Tatar and Peruse Straits. So yes, those nation are 'in the sea', as you put it, especially when you include Dokdo.

It's truly a shame you cannot see the benefit of including BOTH names on maps (and never have I suggested it should be only one or the other), but then, not really surprising, either.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

smithinjapanFeb. 07, 2014 - 06:44PM JST

So while some of it is in the vicinity of Japan, it is also very much in the vicinity of Russia, NK, and SK, so I find it odd you basing 'vicinity' as the reason why some names should not be included.

Excuse me. Aren't we comparing "East Sea" and "Sea of Japan"? Do you see "Russia" or "Korea" in "East Sea"? Did Thon Taddeo say that "some names should not be included" because of vicinity?

No one is saying that "some names should not be included" except Koreans and Korean Americans. And their argument is based on misinformed hate.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Congratulations to Korean Americans

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

ThonTaddeo: "Until now just about even the most dull-witted of them could correctly guess that it's in the vicinity of Japan."

Speaking of dull-witted, you are aware that it is the sea and stretches to both coastlines, right? So while some of it is in the vicinity of Japan, it is also very much in the vicinity of Russia, NK, and SK, so I find it odd you basing 'vicinity' as the reason why some names should not be included.

-5 ( +3 / -7 )

Name everything Korean, we will just occupy Korea.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

@ CH3CHO

Three things. First, while I'm sure the survey of Commercial maps consisted of walking to to book stores, let me clarify where and how I have seen both on scaled maps of East Asia I usually see "Sea of Japan (East Sea)" with the East Sea under. If you view the name on Google Maps at the 50mi/100km scale and closer you will see the same thing, I checked on Wikipedia it has been like that since 2006. I have not seen it on Globes or other Large scale maps (thus if Map scale permits) Second, I'm not that old so I would still be in High School as the increase was starting. Third, I really don't care what you call it or why and while two countries are calling it something different and I have been to both Countries it has been an advantage to know both.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Tyler VandenbergFeb. 07, 2014 - 05:40PM JST

It has had both names on Google Earth for YEARS and most maps I have seen have had both as long as I can remember when I was in school our Maps had both

Here is a link to a propaganda material issued by the Korean Government. http://www.mofat.go.kr/english/political/images/res/east_sea.pdf

INCREASING INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT for CONCURRENT USE

For instance, studies carried out independently by Japan and Korea show that the maps using both names concurrently are on the increase, rising from 2.8 percent in 2000 to 10.8 percent (18.1 percent in case of commercial maps) in 2005, and then to 23.8 percent in 2007. This suggests growing support and understanding for the legitimacy of the name "East Sea."

How old are you? The material also says as follows.

This seminal book recounts the history of ancient states in Korea and the name "East Sea" was used when describing historical events that occurred around B.C. 50.

The "historical event" is know as golden frog legend. It goes: The King of Kokuryo had no child. One day he found a baby, gold in color and a frog in shape under a rock. He though the baby was a gift from heaven, adopted him, made him a crown prince, and named him Kim Wa. One day the sun descented to his minister and said that the land was to be used by the off spring of the sun, so the king should leave and go to the shore of the east sea. Is this a historical event?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Don't waste your breath. There are some on this forum who seem to have the ability to some up the mindset of 50-odd million Koreans and 1.3 billion Chinese in one sweeping, usually ignorant, rant. There are sober minds in both countries who treat this kind of stupidity with the laugh it deserves.

@Jimizo - an interesting observation. Many people here have formed their opinions of Korea by the actions of Korean nationalist groups. However, their opinion of Japan is not formed by the actions of Japanese nationalists, who are every bit as guilty of blind nationalism.

It's okay to have bias, and everyone has some degree of bias. But failing to recognise bias in one's own opinions leads to ignorance and hate.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

It's not as a ridiculous ideas as you might think; National Geographic has called it both names since the 90's. Very diplomatic and thoughtful of them. Respect the wishes of all, not just a select few.

http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/S/sea-of-japan-east-sea

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

82,000 Korean Americans in a state of 8,200,000 makes 1% of the vote. And if it's an emotive topic, it will bring turnout to the polls. It costs nothing, offends almost no voters, yet can garner enough votes to win a swing election. I think if you said Koreans were selling their ethnic block vote for colored glass beads it would be about right.

Japan’s campaign has included warnings that Japanese investment in Virginia could be hurt by a negative outcome

Ineffective, probably untrue, and leaves a bad smell.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I agree 100% with korea on this. I mean, how can you argue with a country that has invented everything? Chinese characters originated in korea. Pizza is korean. Even Jesus Christ and Confucius were korean. Christmas trees? From korea. Don't believe me? See for yourself :

http://theunlikelyexpat.blogspot.jp/2012/03/christmas-trees-were-invented-in-korea.html

@bicultural Thanks for the link. Nothing like a good laugh to start the weekend.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

It has had both names on Google Earth for YEARS and most maps I have seen have had both as long as I can remember when I was in school our Maps had both, I would actually be surprised if Virginia's text books only used the one name. The the way I see it they are only updating to what most maps have been doing already. In fact this practice is recommended by UNCSGN resolution III/20 when map scale permits. So the real question is if Virginia has only been making text books with only the Sea of Japan intentionally when did that start and why?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

This reminds me of a character in a British comedy show called "Goodness Gracious Me" which is written by and stars a cast of Indian and Pakistani actors and comedians. One character constantly goes on about how everything is Indian, including Superman... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmGqawg0vbs

Back on topic, and this really is absurd. One group of malcontents lobby a US state and all of a sudden the school books are changed. I wonder how stuffed the brown envelope was?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I can’t understand the concept of Korean. Why do you guys try to change U.S in the same way as South Korea? I think that invade it.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

igloobuyerFeb. 07, 2014 - 04:50PM JST

The Japan sea name was chosen during Korea's annexation by Japan, now they want the Korea name to be acknowledged - what's wrong with that?! Is that evil or something? Enlighten me.

The Korean name is "Dong Hae". It is acknowledged. Japanese name in "Nihonkai".

The English name is "Sea of Japan". It was called so in English before 1850s and before annexation of Korea in 1910. The sea was never called "East Sea" in English. I see no reason to call it "East Sea".

In addition, there is a recent proposal by Korean Congressmen that the Korean name of the sea should be changed to "Han Guk Dong Hae", meaning "East Korea Sea". If the law passes in the Korean Congress, what will the Virginian legislature do? Do they live with "East Sea", or do they follow the suit and change the English name to "East Korea Sea"? This issue will give them enough of everlasting headache.

-3 ( +3 / -7 )

Next up: Korea petitions the World Alphabet Court to get the letter 'k' to come before 'j' in the future.

You say that as a joke, but I have been told by citizens of ROK on more than one occasion that the correct Romanized spelling of ROK is "Corea" but that the Japanese forced them to change it to "Korea" in order to ensure that Japan would always come first. If you doubt that, look at the way many ROK nationalists spell the name of the country. Its just a matter of time until paid stooges like Kim start demanding that we all use a "C" instead of a "K".

I'm a native of California and I'm gonna suggest that they create a bill to revise our school textbooks so that Virginia is renamed as East Kentucky.

Its an excellent idea. I hope real Americans across the nation will stand up and make their voices heard. Make these Virginian legislators regret the day they allowed themselves to be bought off by such an insignificant section of the population. You may also want to investigate the "memorial" placed in Glendale by bought and paid for councilors in your own state. Fortunately the current mayor is no ROK toady and is raising questions about the legitimacy of the idea of placing memorials to ROK sufferings on American soil. See the link below for an interview with current Glendale mayor Dave Weaver. It also gives some insight into the depths to which some of the ROK activists are prepared to sink in their tireless campaign to attack Japan around the world.

http://linkis.com/com/mYwn

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Can someone enlighten to to whether I should be joining the hate-boat against Korea or not? I want to participate in this hate fest like everyone else - but I can't find any reasons to hate the Koreans.

Joking aside, this is the 21 century why are we still being so racist and hateful towards another people! Is there no hope for humanity?!

The Japan sea name was chosen during Korea's annexation by Japan, now they want the Korea name to be acknowledged - what's wrong with that?! Is that evil or something? Enlighten me.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

It might have been called the "Middle Sea" by now except they seem to prefer playing tug-o-war over the name.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Do the majority of Virginians even know where the Japan Sea is?

Until now just about even the most dull-witted of them could correctly guess that it's in the vicinity of Japan.

If these Koreans get their way, and someone asks them where the "East Sea" is, they'll probably guess that it's in Chesapeake Bay. Because, you know, they're unaware that Korea is the center of the world and the base from which all directions are measured.

6 ( +8 / -3 )

I'm a native of California and I'm gonna suggest that they create a bill to revise our school textbooks so that Virginia is renamed as East Kentucky.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

I agree 100% with korea on this. I mean, how can you argue with a country that has invented everything? Chinese characters originated in korea. Pizza is korean. Even Jesus Christ and Confucius were korean. Christmas trees? From korea. Don't believe me? See for yourself :

http://theunlikelyexpat.blogspot.jp/2012/03/christmas-trees-were-invented-in-korea.html

That 'pizza is Korean' thing was an ADVERTISEMENT by Mr. Pizza, a Japanese pizza chain which branched out into Korea. It was supposed to be a funny ad but backfired because they obviously gave internet audiences too much credit, who thought it was a genuine documentary.

You know this, but the fact you would use that against Korea shows you have no interest in truth but only in Korea-bashing.

Also, I've never ever heard of any Korean claim Jesus was Korean. I'm sure some nutcase has claimed it though, but don't use that against the whole country.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

chucky3176Feb. 07, 2014 - 03:15PM JST

Now I don't agree with what those Korean American leaders in Virgina did, and I wish they didn't start this, at least they have the right to vote as citizens of the US - so it's perfectly within their rights.

The question is if they exercise their right for the interest of the Commonwealth. I cannot speak for the Americans, but I think the country will fall apart if the citizens start working for their former country.

2 ( +6 / -5 )

Congrations Virginians, you can celebrate your victory with Koreans by drinking Ttongsul, a Korean wine made from poop !!!

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

As I previously stated, the body of water known internationally as Sea of Japan is only called otherwise by the one country clamoring. That isn't enough to rename or add a sub-name to it. Nonsensical.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

@Chucky Drop the 'yes, it's petty but..' line of reasoning and just say 'it's petty'. It's much shorter.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Korean people's inferiority complex seems boundless. "We must rename that sea to show it to Japan, our arch nemesis!" ... It's like in a kindergarten!

Well, I agree with you that this is all silly over a name of a sea. But is it just Korea only, when Japanese government itself lobbied hard, first by trying to bribe the Virginia government with promises of fat contracts and public donations. And then when that didn't work, they moved on to outright threats, threats that they would pull out all their investment from the state. This is coming from a foreign government of Japan. Now I don't agree with what those Korean American leaders in Virgina did, and I wish they didn't start this, at least they have the right to vote as citizens of the US - so it's perfectly within their rights. But what right does Japan have, threatening the state with economic harm, over a lousy name of the sea? Which by the way doesn't mean is being changed. The name still remains "Sea of Japan", but there's a parenthesis and inside it it's written "East Sea". Big deal.

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

JimizoFEB. 07, 2014 - 02:54PM JST Don't waste your breath. There are some on this forum who seem to have the ability to some up the mindset of 50-odd million Koreans and 1.3 billion Chinese in one sweeping, usually ignorant, rant. There are sober minds in both countries who treat this kind of stupidity with the laugh it deserves.

I was going to say something demeaning but you're right to just ignore and move on. Wise words.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@kabukilover Don't waste your breath. There are some on this forum who seem to have the ability to some up the mindset of 50-odd million Koreans and 1.3 billion Chinese in one sweeping, usually ignorant, rant. There are sober minds in both countries who treat this kind of stupidity with the laugh it deserves.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I doubt half these kids can correctly label the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans

Of course not. They are just stupid American school kids.[/sarcasm]

2 ( +2 / -0 )

biculturalFEB. 07, 2014 - 10:16AM JST

Thanks chuck. You've just proven my point. If it is a "spoof," that means there are other ridiculous claims being made. In fact, korea is claiming Chinese herbal medicine as their own and they are even trying to get it listed as a UNESCO world intangible cultural heritage. Everyone knows printing was first developed in China. Not so, according to people living on a small peninsula.

The "Pizza" video was meant to be a fun video, Japanese know that, but they're using it for their own agenda. The "Chinese medicine" for UNESCO, also lies from Chinese, fanned on by Japanese. Korea never tried to list it, nor did they, go look at UNESCO. Your charges of "printing press"... once again half lie. It's the "metal" printing press that Korea registered with UNESCO. Notice the word "metal". Big difference between "metal printing press", and just "printing press".

Most of your charges are lies and few half lies, but what's not a lie is that they can't even compare to what Japan is applying for at UNESCO. Japan is now applying for Kamikaze's at UNESCO, as world heritage. Yeah, Kamikaze the suicide bombers are UNESCO material in Japan. Good lord.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

I doubt half these kids can correctly label the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Or even locate Korea, Japan and China on a map. Not a very big deal.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Congratulation to Virginia' house. During civil war, forefathers of US paid their blood, sweat and bones for uniting North and South together. According their wish, United States should become like United States of East Sea for sake of unity. Statue of Liberty will be proud for Virginia education revolution. At least East Sea will be shorter to type rather than Japan Sea.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Korean people's inferiority complex seems boundless. "We must rename that sea to show it to Japan, our arch nemesis!" ... It's like in a kindergarten!

0 ( +10 / -9 )

They already have Korea bay, you know... Prepare yourself, America. Things are getting worse and worse.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

justbcuzisayFeb. 07, 2014 - 11:59AM JST

@CH3CHO So, since the name is 'Nihonkai' in Japanese, that better be changed as well? I don't understand the translation argument you are giving, please explain.

The name of the sea is "Nihonkai" in Japanese, "Riben hai" in Chinese, "Yaponskoe More" in Russian, "Dong hae" in Korean and "Sea of Japan" in English. One name in each language and everyone is just fine.

Now, Koreans say that "Dong" means "East" and "Hae" means "sea", so English speakers should call it "East Sea". This Korean logic is utterly wrong. The Chinese call East China Sea "Dong hai", "Dong" meaning "East" and "Hai" meaning "sea" in Chinese. If you go by the Korean logic, East China Sea should also be called "East Sea" in English. Japan is called "Nihon" in Japanese, "Ni" meaning "sun" and "hon" meaning "origin". By Korean logic, Japan should be also called "Sun Origin" in English. China is called "Zhong Guo" in Chinese, "Zhong" meaning "Central" and "Guo" meaning "Nation". By Korean logic, China should be also called "Central Nation" in English.

English speakers should determin the names of places in the English language. The English name does not need to be a word by word translation of the names in foreign languages.

2 ( +7 / -6 )

The Koreans can be so silly and petty. And Virginia, this is so embarrassing. Why oh why.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Other countries need all the leverage they can get when dealing with Japan

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Why did the state of Virginia have to enable this squabble between Japan and Korea?

Just seems to me that the governor made a promise in exchange for guaranteed votes, and now they are acting on that promise. Otherwise, he would have no reason to speak "in favor of the Korean view during his election campaign last year" about such a silly matter.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

To me, the only explanation for Koreans' zealous lobby to change the name of the sea of Japan is their inferiority complex against Japan. You don't see British people crying over the name of Irish sea, or Americans complaining about the name of gulf of Mexico as both nations achieved many great things in their respective history, and people don't care about such little things. The sad thing is that those Koreans don't realize how ridiculous they look to the rest of the world.

Exactly. As you said, those nations you've mentioned have achievements in their history and don't care about petty things. Korea, on the other hand? A tributary state of China for a thousand years and a colony of Japan in the last century. Basically the footstool of East Asia. The insecurity has deep roots.

Thanks chuck. You've just proven my point. If it is a "spoof," that means there are other ridiculous claims being made. In fact, korea is claiming Chinese herbal medicine as their own and they are even trying to get it listed as a UNESCO world intangible cultural heritage. Everyone knows printing was first developed in China. Not so, according to people living on a small peninsula. Oh well, what can we expect

Unfortunately, this is to be expected of Koreans. The sad thing is that they don't seem to be aware of how preposterous and idiotic they appear to the rest of the world with their outrageous claims. I'm convinced that it's their massive inferiority complex and insecurity that has caused this collective mental disorder intrinsic in their culture. Note that the group of Koreans who voted are in Virginia; even removed from their home country and culture they exhibit these traits of insecurity disorder. By their actions it's only logical to see them as mentally ill people. They should also be treated as such.

2 ( +9 / -8 )

"Many of them regard themselves as Koreans, and not American."

It does not matter one whit to Virginia lawmakers how a bunch of naturalized and native-born US citizens of Korean or any other origin in the state regard themselves. They're citizens who can vote, that's all that matters. If they were lobbying for passage of a bill calling for the overthrow of the US government in Washington, that would be one thing. But in no way did their lobbying in support of this bill's passage call into question their loyalty to the United States.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@igloobuyer Ikr? The animosity that so many here have towards Korea is unreal.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Virginia legislators gave in to a bunch of US citizens residing in Virginia with full voting rights who happen to be of Korean ethnic background

You do not know much of Korean communities in America. Many of them regard themselves as Koreans, and not American. Besides, even someone as stupid as myself can realize this is a fight between Korea and Japan using Korean-Virginians as a proxy.

6 ( +7 / -2 )

@AKBfan

"What does China call this sea?"

They call it the "Renbin Kai" (日本海、Sea of Japan), which is hardly surprising as that' s the name decided by the International Hydrographic Organisation in 2012.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

All this will do is give the South Koreans leverage in saying that the USA recognizes Korea's rightful claim to the sea, whether it does or not. Poor move, Virginia. How can "East Sea" be neutral? What country is it east of? Korea. Pretty much calling it the Korean Sea instead of the Sea of Japan.

4 ( +8 / -5 )

Wow, It is beyond me where all this hate for Korea boils up from. What did they do to you folks? Everyone seems so deeply resentful towards Korea. What have you been reading or experiencing that I haven't? Jesu*s.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

"Virginia legislators give in to a demand from a foreign interest about a small change to school textbooks."

Uh, actually that's not correct. Virginia legislators gave in to a bunch of US citizens residing in Virginia with full voting rights who happen to be of Korean ethnic background. Giving in to foreign interests in this case would have meant going along with the government of Japan, the foreign entity here from the perspective of Virginia lawmakers.

0 ( +6 / -5 )

The fiercely anti-Korea mindset on this thread is frankly shocking and saddening.

The issue is far more complicated than you all seem to imagine. Are you aware that Japan uses intimidation tactics and threats of severing economic ties with the state on this (and other issues)?

Frankly, by having both names they are working to make all parties happy here. What's wrong with compromise for the sake of peace for cri@ sakes?!

What we need to be furious about is intimidation by large industrial nations like Japan to small governances like Virginia!

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/japans-war-history-comes-america-9835

-9 ( +7 / -15 )

It's a sea-saw battle with the naming!

Thumbs down to me for how much you love my humor.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Congratulations to South Korea

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

80000 ROK residents in Virginia get to decide the content of educational materials for a state of 8 million people. I think when Kim says "all Americans" he means "all immigrants who can't leave their racist baggage at the door".

3 ( +8 / -5 )

what does China call this sea? surely they should protest this decision

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

USNinJapan2FEB. 07, 2014 - 07:03AM JST Utterly absurd. Sad to sea such embarassing news from my home state.

Honestly, you have a lot to be proud of!. The Japanese government have repeatedly use scare tactics and intimidation of US states through economic threats. The sate was under a lot of pressure but that stood up to Japanese intimidation.

"No governor should allow a foreign government to blackmail his state"

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/japans-war-history-comes-america-9835

-9 ( +5 / -15 )

Just a few facts, since this has rambled on for 76 odd posts.

The article says (((The Japan Sea is also referred to as the East Sea))). So basically, it's the Japan Sea, EVEN in Virginia. What Virginia approves is not really that consequential. British Admiralty charts and Bartholomew still use Japan Sea, so Japan Sea it is. The premise that ownership is claimed by calling a sea by a country's name is absurd. Is the Indian Ocean claimed by India or the Arabian Sea by .... umm ..... Arabia (?) ? UNCLOS states the seas are a common heritage of mankind and sovereign territorial waters end at 12 nautical miles off, so there is no question of claiming it. (UNCLOS = UN Convention on Laws of the Seas) It'd have saved much time and effort if they mentioned Korea calls it East Sea, cos apparently they do. This would also have highlighted that they are unique because the rest of mankind calls it the Japan Sea.

Note: Japan Sea = Sea of Japan, its just easier to say and write Japan Sea, so I used that form.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Jesus Christ on a crutch. How sad is this situation? Virginia legislators give in to a demand from a foreign interest about a small change to school textbooks. As was correctly noted above the name was not changed. "East Sea" has become an asterisk, an aside. "Sea of Japan" is still recognized as THE name of the body of water in question. All South Korea and VANK have accomplished is making themselves look like immature kids. Is VANK going to push for change in the 49 other states? There is a sizable population of Koreans in Atlanta. Is Georgia the next target?

If the Japanese archipelago did not exist their "East Sea" would be the Pacific Ocean. It is the physical presence of Japan that make it logical to call it the Sea of Japan.

Exactly the argument I make. Funny how there is no real counter argument.

Well I hope Virginian sailors don't get confused over the East China Sea and the East Sea,

Way back when I was in the Marines I participated in an exercise called Team Spirit '92. I do not recall ever hearing the name East Sea even when in meetings with ROK forces. It is my understanding that now, when dealing with ROK forces, for the American military to use 'East Sea'. Any other time they rightly use SOJ.

Koreans who feel so strongly about being Koreans instead of becoming Americans but would just like to live on American soil

In my experience Koreans are one of the most insular ethnic communities in America.

4 ( +9 / -6 )

I'm just wodering how Virgnia calls Persian Gulf. Does they call it Arabian Gulf too?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

since they started to change books, also change the name of the "Chinese Cabbage" to the Korean name "Kimichi Cabbage" , also change the name of the State of Virginia to " State of Ho Lee Fuk " (Sarcasm)

8 ( +13 / -6 )

Message to the lawmakers and educational of Virginia: God did not create the heavens and the earth 6,000 years ago for you to bicker over the names. The words Virginia and education do not sit well in the same sentence.

3 ( +5 / -3 )

Well I hope Virginian sailors don't get confused over the East China Sea and the East Sea, At least calling it the Japan Sea gives an indication where to head?

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Bgood41FEB. 07, 2014 - 11:43AM JST Virginia politicians show themselves that it can be under the influenced of various local means. Americans came from >various ethnic and cultural backgrounds, but Constitutional and American value always come first.

Indeed. While the Korean government is showing a complete lack of sense of purpose if not class exporting their little regional squabbles, one can question whether the Korean community is Virgina is just that, Koreans who feel so strongly about being Koreans instead of becoming Americans but would just like to live on American soil. Contradiction? Or does it shed light on a lot of other seemingly unrelated things?

6 ( +8 / -3 )

I'm gonna call it the Sea of MeanRingo!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

East of what? Virginia? Isn't that the Atlantic Ocean to you?

4 ( +7 / -2 )

Next up: Korea petitions the World Alphabet Court to get the letter 'k' to come before 'j' in the future.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

@senseiman

I meant neutral in the fact that it is not adding any wording to accuse the name 'Japan Sea' as being incorrect, it just offers additional information that it is called an alternative name.

@CH3CHO So, since the name is 'Nihonkai' in Japanese, that better be changed as well? I don't understand the translation argument you are giving, please explain.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Truth be told, your average high school student in the USA, even average 3rd or 4th generation Korean-American student couldn't tell you where the Sea of Japan or East Sea would be, even if you put it in big bold red ink.

For most high school students ( I am guilty myself), it is in one ear and out the other.

But once again another tremendous waste of money, since the State of Virginia has many other pressing issues I'm sure. Just another way to secure votes.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This decision was brought to you by Korean lobbying money. Nothing more.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Koreans seem to have a history of causing problems in Virginia.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Virginia politicians show themselves that it can be under the influenced of various local means. Americans came from various ethnic and cultural backgrounds, but Constitutional and American value always come first. Any Korean Americans who focus on Korean's interest issues from sex slave Korean women and territory dispute, and disregard historical fact such as in Middle East where the conquered women were used as sex slave or price reward to the soldiers of the winner side ( even recorded in Koran); simply a self-serving interest. America has deeper integrity than that as a nation.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

smithinjapanFEB. 07, 2014 - 08:58AM JST Only a completely insecure nation would be up in arms about this.

Yes we agree .... and that completely secure nation is called KOREA.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Do the majority of Virginians even know where the Japan Sea is?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

The Koreans really do appear immature sometimes with their childish rantings. If the Japanese archipelago did not exist their "East Sea" would be the Pacific Ocean. It is the physical presence of Japan that make it logical to call it the Sea of Japan.

The same thing applies to the Irish Sea: without Ireland it would be the Atlantic Ocean. Nobody in the UK would insist that it be called the West Sea because (1) it makes no sense and (2) people don't have an inferiority complex about Ireland.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

I think that it was a big loss for Korea. After all that campaigning the legislation reads "when referring to the Sea of Japan, (textbooks) shall note that it is also referred to as the East Sea" and thus the legislation confirms that the body of water is "the Sea of Japan" and after confirming this fact, merely notes that it is called something else (no doubt one of many appelations).

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Yes Virginia. You did a good thing. The Koreans do call it the East Sea. That is a little better than Sea of Japan. The former is does not imply ownership while the latter does.

That aside, this is one juicy slap in the face to Abe and the other beneath the slime Japanese ultra-nationalists who have steadily denied Japan's war crimes and wish turn Japan into a warfare state. And this also a slap at the Japanese bigots who are harassing Korean communities, particularly in Okubo, Tokyo.

This is what happens when Japanese ultra-nationalist bullying (economic or yakuza-style) cannot work. Oh, it's fun to watch the ultra-nationalists squirm in impotent rage. Yes Virginia. Nice work.

What the Japanese rights ought to do is have "Sea of Japan" tattooed on their backs and drown in the Whatyoumaycallit Sea.

-16 ( +3 / -19 )

Good. To be fair, let's continue to add every single name of seas around the world. Kids in virginia will become a mater of geology.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Great example of Virginia tax dollars at work. How many hours did Virginia law makers waste on this decision. C'mon politicians, do something meaningful. Your constituents need you.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe has signaled he will sign the bill, which goes against federal practice of using just one geographic name. If the bill is passed in the general assembly of the Virginia House of Delegates on Thursday, it will be signed by the governor and become effective on July 1. McAuliffe promised to the sizable Korean community in Virginia to support their campaign to use both names.

OK so McAuliffe is going to go against his own Federal Practice and use "TWO NAMES" for the same geographic location. Basically to secure the votes of the "sizable Korean community in Virginia"

Virginians should be ashamed of McAuliffe (all for self interest - i.e.: Votes) for letting him drag Virginia into Korea's idiotic, childish game playing.

As for the local Korean Community ... OMG .... whats wrong with these people.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

"That said, I doubt this ill-advised decision would have even been considered for a vote if not for the jingoistic and non-conciliatory politics of the Abe administration. Through Abe, Japan is shooting itself in the foot."

Glad somebody pointed this out. Abe's presence in the prime minister's office was the likely catalyst for this activity in Virginia, I am guessing. Same thing happened back in '07, when Abe was PM. The US House passed that resolution calling on Japan to apologize over the comfort women issue. Abe was undoubtedly the catalyst then. Even the main sponsor of the bill was a Japanese-American named Mike Honda. But he knew who buttered his bread in his congressional district. That's democracy, American style. Flawed? Sure, but how do you change it?

No surprise to see more comments on this story here than at the websites of either the Washington Post or the Richmond Times Dispatch. Virginians don't care about this matter, minus the Korean-American voting bloc. The Japanese-American community in Virginia is negligible. No significant migration of Japanese to the USA has occurred since the 1920s. Korean immigrants, meanwhile, poured into America by the millions from the 1960s to the 1990s when South Korea was less economically developed. So ethnic Koreans outnumber ethnic Japanese in pretty much all US states now except California and Hawaii.

Virginia politicians have no reason to care on this matter and therefore throw in their lot with the most passionate fringe groups when they know their vote won't affect their re-election chances otherwise. Naturalized immigrants vote, foreign governments don't, end of story. Turkey has realized the same problem vis-a-vis Armenian-Americans who want the 1915 genocide taught in American schools, even though Turkey disputes the genocide ever happened. Being a key US ally doesn't help.

That's the situation, objectively speaking. I write this as somebody who believes the Sea of Japan is appropriate as a name, because the creation of the Japanese landmass at the end of the last ice age or whenever effectively created the sea that now exists. Maybe somebody should point that out to Koreans. You can try first, if you ever bother talking to or communicating with Korean people.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

I presume that the feeble-minded Virginia legislators will next allow the Gulf of Mexico to be alternatively called the Gulf of the South-from-USA-and-East-of-Mexico.

Amazing, and appalling.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Welcome to American politics, a small, vocal, yet well funded group can get almost anything passed if enough people don't know or don't care about the issue. Personally, it doesn't matter because textbooks used in the US are not nationally circulated and I doubt this will cause any significant change people commonly referring to The Sea of Japan.

What this does do, and angers the crap out of me, is make make all new Virgina textbooks a little more expensive because the amendment that must be added is highly specialized and so far specific to one state. Thank you for helping big business Virgina, you just padded your government spending by a couple million.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

In japan there is a word "Tokai", means the East Sea and refers to the water body located at the East side of the Japanese Archipelago, mainly from the area from Tokyo to Nagoya. This "Tokai" (East Sea) refers to the Pacific Ocean.

Now.... Japan only uses that term to describe a specific region inside Japan. Why South Korea could not keep this term for their own use? Why you have to go and try to change the name of things to fit their little inflated egos?

12 ( +13 / -2 )

If Japan can shamelessly do whatever it wants there is no reason why others cannot do the same but rightfully.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So dumb. This kind of thing makes activists with actual grievances look bad.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

There're many J companies in Virginia. They should start to move to another state or another country because this thing will only get worse.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I know lots of people will get all upset about this, but the wording seems pretty neutral

The wording actually is not neutral, East sea is an accurate description of it only if you are in Korea. It is west of Japan, (and south of Russia).

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Koreas small minded bitterness will never cease.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Thanks chuck. You've just proven my point. If it is a "spoof," that means there are other ridiculous claims being made. In fact, korea is claiming Chinese herbal medicine as their own and they are even trying to get it listed as a UNESCO world intangible cultural heritage. Everyone knows printing was first developed in China. Not so, according to people living on a small peninsula. Oh well, what can we expect : http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2005/07/03/2005070361027.html

8 ( +13 / -6 )

As far as I know, only Korea refers to the Sea of Japan as the "East Sea," as @OssanAmerica pointed out. On those grounds alone it seems ridiculous to use both names in a geography textbook. Sea of Japan, Gulf of Mexico, Irish Sea, East China Sea, English Channel — they are all fine and good.

That said, I doubt this ill-advised decision would have even been considered for a vote if not for the jingoistic and non-conciliatory politics of the Abe administration. Through Abe, Japan is shooting itself in the foot.

Sadly, callousness of Japan's current ruling elite has, on all corners of the globe, caused rapid erosion of sentiment that was relatively (and in some cases overwhelmingly) positive toward the nation a few short years ago. I see this vote in Virginia as a knee-jerk reaction, and part of a growing backlash against Japan, to a seemingly endless laundry list of depressing developments from this country, in part including Yasukuni visits, outright denial of wartime oppression, press censorship/control, the child abduction issue, NHK's increasingly extremist bent, and whale/dolphin hunts.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

“I hope that other Korean Americans in other states will try to correct their textbooks,” he said. “It’s not just good for Korean-American children ... it’s good for all Americans

I laughed really hard at the last line. Its good for all Americans, really?! really?! Your average American couldn't care less if the sea on the other side of the world is named East Sea or Sea of Japan. How is this good for the average american. Its not, its just to appease his Korean-American voters who obviously care. Personally I think Sea of Japan sounds better than East sea. If you ask people where the East sea is, it can be anywhere. But mention sea of Japan, people will guess more or less where its actually located. So geographically speaking, the name should remain.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

The only reason this passed was because the local VA politicians are hungry for local Korean-American voter support. Historical accuracy or justice have nothing to do with this outcome.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

The name of the organization is 사단법인 미주 한인 의 소리 which should be translated as "Voice of Koreans in America, Association Incorporated". You can check this using automatic translation. And since it is a 사단법인, it is probably incorporated in South Korea.

There can be no doubt that Kim and his group are just trouble-makers with no allegiance whatsoever toward America. Just last year (before the ownership change) JT ran an article that highlighted the number of ROK immigrants to the US who were leaving the States and moving to PRC for better economic opportunity. Most of the quotes in that article showed the ROK immigrants to be ungrateful to, and scornful of, America on their way out the door.

Even the title of this article (carefully crafted no doubt) shows that Kim and his group view themselves as South koreans, not americans. And further, that they view this as a victory over Japan. Yet Kim has the stupidity to state that he thinks this addition will be better for "all American children". The man obviously has no clue about America.

I'm going to lobby the weak State of Virginia to change the name "ROK" to "PRC Vassal State 2". I think that would be good for all American children to know which way the wind blows on that messed up peninsula.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Humans, such puny beings, yet still think that they or their nation or whatever small hole they're holding up in is the center of the universe. East sea, Sea of Japan, such meaningless names. Why can't they come up with a neutral name ? The sea of understanding, or the waters of friendship, or whatever. They can't because they still think they're the center ... I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Koreans seem to love to drag outsiders into their private squabbles, which is why their country has been a battleground repeatedly between China, Russia and Japan for the past 400-plus years. They continue to bring down suffering on their own heads, and it's obvious they have yet to learn a thing from their unhappy experiences. Is Virginia going to send its state militia to enforce the new name? I didn't think so. Maybe Koreans can reciprocate by sending material aid to the Confederacy.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Why did the state of Virginia have to enable this squabble between Japan and Korea? It's like a dysfunctional family from a 1970s sitcom.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

AmidalismFeb. 07, 2014 - 09:32AM JST

What are they going to start protesting next?

They will ask "equal opportunity" that "East Sea (Sea of Japan)" should be used as frequently as "Sea of Japan (East Sea)". In addition, the official position of the Korean Government is that "East Sea" is the only name of the sea and co-naming is just a temporal measure before Japan agrees to the sole use of "East Sea". We are only at the beginning of a long long hate battle on issue of no value.

chucky3176Feb. 07, 2014 - 09:30AM JST

"Dong Hae" means "East Sea" in Korean, CH3CHO.

Yes, "Dong" means "East" and "Hae" means "Sea". So, you admit that the sea is not called "East Sea" but "Dong Hae" in Korean.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

biculturalFEB. 07, 2014 - 09:31AM JST I agree 100% with korea on this. I mean, how can you argue with a country that has invented everything? Chinese characters originated in korea. Pizza is korean. Even Jesus Christ and Confucius were korean.

All these are not true, but they are just false rumors spread on-line by netizens from a certain country. The pizza is Korean was a spoof video made by a Korean company, but blown into a Korea bashing by Japanese netizens.

-17 ( +8 / -24 )

So much for "Bridge Over Troubled Water" ... (Trouble Over Abridged Water?)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If they think that any of the children who use these textbooks asides from Koreans are going to care about this, they are sorely mistaken. While students may know the names of various seas of the top of their heads, I highly doubt they could point them all out to you on a map, or that it has any impact in their daily life. I don't see a problem with them putting in a footnote that the Sea of Japan is also referred to as the East Sea in Korea and Korea alone. Just because they use that word in Korea though, doesn't mean that we should have to adopt its usage. What are they going to start protesting next? Shall we also teach our students what Korean's call everything else in Korean? Hell, why don't we just stop teaching English and teach Korean instead. Just because they weren't able to submit the name East Sea for consideration to the IHO doesn't mean that if they had the name would have been established as the international name for it. The name itself is too subjective. To Japan it is the West Sea. Why should they have to refer to it by such a backwards name? If the name they were trying to push was the Sea of Korea I could at least understand. The concept of naming a sea based solely on its location to your own country is ridiculously selfish.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

I agree 100% with korea on this. I mean, how can you argue with a country that has invented everything? Chinese characters originated in korea. Pizza is korean. Even Jesus Christ and Confucius were korean. Christmas trees? From korea. Don't believe me? See for yourself :

http://theunlikelyexpat.blogspot.jp/2012/03/christmas-trees-were-invented-in-korea.html

11 ( +20 / -9 )

"Dong Hae" means "East Sea" in Korean, CH3CHO.

-14 ( +6 / -21 )

To most people in the US, a furious fight over sea name between Japan and South Korea involved in the Virginia legislature sounds very perplexing if not frivolous. But like any territorial disputes in the world, senses can be made only when historical contexts and current atmosphere are applied.

South Korean grass-root organizations in the US may extend its quest a bit too far on this naming issue, but Japan’s haughty attitude towards South Koreans and its routine hogwash on its past war crimes bear a big share of blames in terms how bitterness between these two Asian Countries has become intensified.

Like or not, Abe’s backsliding on historical issues are the main attribute when it comes to waning support on Japan in the US. Even on the Capitol Hill, a regular stronghold of siding with Japan for years, the wind is starting shifting direction as South Korean’s stance on pushing Japan to face sex slavery gets hardened. For instance, on January 17th, 2014, Obama signs 2014 spending bill which featured a resolution calling for Japan to apologize for its treatment of comfort women. Further, Last week, Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, Ed Royce, Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, made an unprecedented visit to the comfort woman statue in Glendale, California. At the state level, thing does not go brighter for Abe’s admin either. Case in point, Jan. 30th New York state passed Comfort Women resolution.

What seems becoming apparent in the US is that Japan’s ability to protect its peaceful image a is deteriorating after Japan titled to right.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

Just to point out a couple of intentional misinformation by Korea.

The state of Virginia on Thursday approved a bill requiring the Korean name - East Sea -

The Korean name of the sea is "Dong Hae". The sea is never called the "East Sea" in Korean.

Peter Kim, a Virginia resident and president of the Voice of Korean Americans,

The name of the organization is 사단법인 미주 한인 의 소리 which should be translated as "Voice of Koreans in America, Association Incorporated". You can check this using automatic translation. And since it is a 사단법인, it is probably incorporated in South Korea.

But it is a source of bitterness for Koreans that the usage became standard worldwide while Korea was under Japanese colonial rule, after the International Hydrographic Organization, or IHO, published its definitive "Limits of the Oceans and the Seas" in 1929.

Sea of Japan was well established English name of the sea by 1850s, way before 1929 or annexation of Korea in 1910. No one called the sea "East Sea" in English. Koreans called the sea "Dong Hae", but that would not affect the English name in 1929.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

Pathetic, and the name of the state Virginia is now being voted on by us to change it to the state of "Dumbninia" as the place is full of dimwits influenced by Korean immigrants who didn't like their own country and immigrated to this land of fools.

Next for renaming will be Washington,

7 ( +14 / -7 )

How obtuse! That cannot be the East Sea for Japan, since it's still in the West of Japan.

7 ( +13 / -7 )

How can a US state rename a body of water that they don't even border on in their "text" books? If they feel free to change that, I suppose next, they will be teaching how the South won the civil war! How ludicrous!

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Who cares what Virginia does?

“I hope that other Korean Americans in other states will try to correct their textbooks,” he said. “It’s not just good for Korean-American children ... it’s good for all Americans.”

How exactly?? Stupid patting-yourself-on-your-back comments like this make me sick.

17 ( +23 / -7 )

Virginia vote on Sea of Japan hands victory to South Koreans

when referring to the Sea of Japan, shall note that it is also referred to as the East Sea”

Rather than calling it a 'victory', calling it a compromise seems more appropriate.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Regardless of whether or not you favor Japan or South Korea on this matter (which is ridiculous either way... we are talking about the sea!), there is absolutly no reason why including BOTH names in textbooks should be a matter of contention. It is the diplomatic thing to do, and is good for both nations. Only a completely insecure nation would be up in arms about this.

-13 ( +14 / -26 )

Silly Billy's

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Holy Christ. With lots of important matters to discuss people are engaged over the name of some piece of water.

Developed countries getting from the poor and wasting the money with crap... nice for the world. Well done.

4 ( +9 / -6 )

"Sea of Japan, shall note that it is also referred to as the East Sea” - article

So the GOP-Tea Mr. Kim (horrified) gets the Virginia legislature to change a text book to recognize an also referred to distinction about the Sea of Japan. Victory!

Maybe the children of Virginia, who can't find Japan or Korea on a map, will thank Mr. Kim?

Let's get real specific. Since 1929 the Sea of Japan, as defined by the archipelago of Japan, providing the hydrographical division of this Sea from the Pacific Ocean, is now reported in a Virginia text book as the 'East Sea' as well as the Sea of Japan.

Wow! Here's an object lesson for adolescents about the stupid issues their parents are all too ready to waste taxpayer money on as a political wedge issue in the hyper-religious forum created by the GOP-Tea in Virginia.

Good luck with all that.

3 ( +8 / -6 )

Why do Koreans try to involve others especialy U.S.?

7 ( +14 / -7 )

They should have an international vote on it and in the meantime call it "We`ll Sea!"

8 ( +13 / -5 )

I guess Japan will now pull all their money and investments out of Virginia as they threatened to do if this passed.

Japan may have to do the same and may also have to pull out of Georgia as well, because they will also vote on the resolution as same as the Virginia bill. The Georgia resolution was started by Sen. David Shafer of the Republican Party.

-13 ( +12 / -25 )

It is regrettable that the state of Virginia has decided to permit their school children to think that the Pacific Ocean together with the Sea of Japan lies to the EAST of the United States. Personally I will never ever call the Sea of Japan "the East Sea" because in my view it still lies to the NORTH-WEST of the Japanese Archipellago rather than to the east thereof.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Japan's threatening economic damage to Virginia would not have help. In fact it might even have even backfired. The Americans are not used to seeing pressure from Japan, a country which they always take for granted.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

To me, the only explanation for Koreans' zealous lobby to change the name of the sea of Japan is their inferiority complex against Japan. You don't see British people crying over the name of Irish sea, or Americans complaining about the name of gulf of Mexico as both nations achieved many great things in their respective history, and people don't care about such little things. The sad thing is that those Koreans don't realize how ridiculous they look to the rest of the world.

26 ( +32 / -6 )

As if Virgina's opinion is relevant.

14 ( +20 / -5 )

I'd like to propose that the body of water referred to as the Atlantic Ocean also be called the Sea of Kansas.

24 ( +29 / -5 )

Wow! Some of you are so one-sided you are blind. They are not changing the name from Sea of Japan. They are just acknowledging that it can also be referred to as East Sea. Honestly, there is no harm in it. Just because it was called one way in your life time doesn't make it right. And I can definitely understand Koreas feelings here.

-20 ( +13 / -33 )

Please forgive our state Virginia, they are the state version of our mentally challenged. The rest of the country still call it the Sea of Japan.

23 ( +29 / -7 )

Virginia also teaches that creationism is science and climate change isn't.

Poor kids.

28 ( +33 / -6 )

Sad.

9 ( +16 / -7 )

They should remame it The Sea of Contention.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Russia calls it Япо́нское мо́ре (Japan Sea), China calls it 日本海 (Japan Sea), Japan calls it 日本海 (Japan Sea), the United Nations calls it Sea of Japan, and the United States calls it Sea of Japan. Only the Koreas call it "East Sea". Good going State of Virginia you look like a State of Fools who just accommodated not just South Korea but NORTH Korea as well. .

31 ( +42 / -10 )

OK South Korea! It's time to come out of the sand box! It's time for dinner!

12 ( +19 / -6 )

Sooner or later the South Korean government will try to change the name from the East Sea to the East Sea of Korea.

12 ( +20 / -8 )

How bizarre.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Great job Virginia, show how you are lower than the rest of the world, you wanna force Russians in calling that waters East Sea ? Because , you know, they are also there, they possess great portion of that sea, or better to say, why we dont ask Russian how they want to call that sea? And they have a right to call it somehow , not only Japan and Korea. Lets call it , Russian South Sea .

18 ( +30 / -12 )

What next? The Channel Between UK and Europe? How about bit of Water Between Britain and Ireland? What would they like to call the Indian Ocean? PC morons strike again.

29 ( +40 / -10 )

Korea has achieved nothing but to divide a Nation.

16 ( +29 / -13 )

I know lots of people will get all upset about this, but the wording seems pretty neutral

shall note that it is also referred to as the East Sea

In general, people need to be able to accept and understand that there is never only one side to a story, saying that others call something by another name does not change the legal name. Not being able to understand that there are often ways to say something differently, regardless of what the map says is almost like saying we can not write that this country is "Japan' because it's native name is 'Nihon/Nipon'

-7 ( +16 / -23 )

Utterly absurd. Sad to sea such embarassing news from my home state.

38 ( +52 / -15 )

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