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Do you think China made the coronavirus and released it either deliberately or by accident or it wasn't manmade?

91 Comments
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Don’t trust China

48 ( +67 / -19 )

When news of the virus came out, it appeared in the news media (radio & print), China was forthcoming with the release . . . furthermore, when dealing with the coronavirus, China let known what medication they were using and which was most effective for the Chinese people . . . . therefore, does not seem the release could have been done intentionally (or with malice).  Many respondents in the poll, believe "the virus did not originate in China" which may imply there were factors involved outside of China?

-31 ( +13 / -44 )

I need a “none of the above” option.

0 ( +23 / -23 )

Exactly, Haaa.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

One word "Trumps plan"

-43 ( +7 / -50 )

Just don’t trust China. Distrust and verify at all times. Individually and collectively

41 ( +49 / -8 )

I don't trust China but i don't trust conspiracy fans either.

Wait & see for tangible and concrete proofs.

27 ( +40 / -13 )

From March-April I have been convinced that c19 was created at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Horseshoe bats collected from far away in China were kept there as part of the research into coronaviruses. There was a shutdown there in Fall 2019. Personally I do not believe c19 was released deliberately. But I do believe that it was released accidentally. Doctors in Wuhan who initially picked up on the virus among patients were silenced by the CCP. The official story was given that the source was a Wet Market in Wuhan, which was promptly shut down. Neither bats nor pangolins were sold there. In fact bats are not eaten as they are a symbol of good fortune. The CCP in it's usual M.O. tried to control the situation on their own and suppressed information. They went as far as to pressure the WHO causing a delay in response in other countries.

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1774573-sbubby

25 ( +38 / -13 )

Amazed to see top vote here being China deliberately released the virus. I wonder where you get your information from? Also how does China benefit? It doesn’t.

-13 ( +29 / -42 )

Li-Meng Yan's paper apparently proves that the virus was created in the Wuhan lab.

I haven't read it yet, but for anyone interested:

https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X2hggdRS-M8

15 ( +30 / -15 )

flydigitalToday  05:14 pm JST

Also how does China benefit? It doesn’t.

China is benefitting already. They have gone full speed ahead on breaking the agreement and taking over Hong Kong. They are pressing their interests in every which way, South China Sea, East China Sea, engaging India militarily, committing near genocide on the Uighur minority, threatening Taiwan (even moreso), engaging in non-military hostilities with the U.S., Canada, Australia, basically taking advantage of the pandemic to further all of their global goals while other countries are struggling. It doesn't take much more than to follow the news to see this.

33 ( +45 / -12 )

Amazed to see top vote here being China deliberately released the virus. I wonder where you get your information from? Also how does China benefit? It doesn’t.

you're partly right. It makes no sense that they released it within their own borders. That goes down to incompetence. We DO know that the Chinese government knowingly allowed international traffic out of Wuhan to spread the virus while at the same time closing the city off domestically.

Its a crime against humanity and should be treated as such.

28 ( +36 / -8 )

Definitely it was deliberate by the Chinese.

11 ( +33 / -22 )

Amazed to see top vote here being China deliberately released the virus. I wonder where you get your information from? Also how does China benefit? It doesn’t.

Even in today's world, where Twitter and other media giants support the CCP by burying news, this information is there for people who care to look. Dr. Li-Meng Yan has been banned from Twitter, but her research is still out there.

I don't think they released it intentionally. But they did intentionally allow flights to leave Wuhan as long as their destinations were overseas - at the same time all travel in and out of Wuhan was banned for Chinese. This shows they were quite happy to spread it overseas once it was out.

You ask how China benefits. Wrong question. You should ask how the criminals in Xi's CCP benefit. The last thing they care about is helping China.

18 ( +27 / -9 )

China may well have created the coronavirus, but you have to be delusional to think they released it intentionally given they don’t have a vaccine. Once you unleash a biological weapon that you have no vaccine for, it can ravage your people just as much as other countries’ peoples.

China is benefitting already. They have gone full speed ahead on breaking the agreement and taking over Hong Kong. They are pressing their interests in every which way, South China Sea, East China Sea, engaging India militarily, committing near genocide on the Uighur minority, threatening Taiwan (even moreso), engaging in non-military hostilities with the U.S., Canada, Australia, basically taking advantage of the pandemic to further all of their global goals while other countries are struggling. It doesn't take much more than to follow the news to see this.

All of which they were doing before the pandemic.

Dr. Li-Meng Yan

Her research that hasn’t been peer reviewed is still being used to push conspiracy theories.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2020/09/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/en/2020/09/18/latest_news/1600419725_620901.amp.html

And there is also the good doctor’s ties to a guy who pushes lies for a living:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/09/17/whistleblower-claiming-china-created-covid-19-coronavirus-has-ties-to-steve-bannon/amp/

-3 ( +21 / -24 )

Deliberate or not, there is no doubt that China needs to take responsibility.

China, WHO could have helped prevent COVID-19 pandemic: congressional report

https://nypost.com/2020/09/21/congressional-report-reveals-how-china-could-have-prevented-covid-19/

22 ( +27 / -5 )

Anyone who think this is a conspiracy and is a manmade virus released by China has been smoking cheaper crack than they already do; China is suffering just the same, if not worse, than other nations, and they have zero to gain from it. Honestly... you have to be pretty insecure, unintelligent, and just plain stupid to believe it was intentional. They intentionally tried to play it down, just like other governments STILL do to this day, and I have no doubt it originated in China, but there is no way they released it intentionally no matter how hard people want to deflect from their current woes.

And make no mistake, it's just coincidence it happened in China. It could just have easily been anywhere, and it is all of our fault.

This is a poor question, and the options poorer still.

-10 ( +19 / -29 )

Anyone who think this is a conspiracy and is a manmade virus released by China has been smoking cheaper crack than they already do; China is suffering just the same, if not worse, than other nations, and they have zero to gain from it.

Regardless of any scenario above, the biggest problem over the originality question is that the CCP is in denial, showing no effort or cooperative moves to growing international calls to try to find the truth. They do react instead by intimidating with various sanctions to anyone who merely suggests a non-partisan fact-finding delegate be sent to Wuhan.

China is getting more complacent and victorious over the pandemic while quite many people around the world are still suffering deep over health and economy. Propaganda images such as partying gatherings or normal life back in the locals circulating via public and social media are far from inspiring; they are tormenting and frustrating, at least highly insensitive to the rest of the world under the crisis. Beware, publicity is tightly controlled and deliberated by the Chinese authorities.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Regardless of any scenario above, the biggest problem over the originality question is that the CCP is in denial, showing no effort or cooperative moves to growing international calls to try to find the truth. They do react instead by intimidating with various sanctions to anyone who merely suggests a non-partisan fact-finding delegate be sent to Wuhan.

Not really any different from the American response.

-5 ( +10 / -15 )

Deliberate or not, there is no doubt that China needs to take responsibility. 

By doing what? Saying, “Yeah, it came from here and we didn’t alert the world soon enough”? What will that accomplish? You don’t hold other countries to this standard, such as Japan for its rape of Asia, so why are you trying to hold China to it?

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

Trump may be a child when it comes to talk on public and the way he downplayed the whole virus situation is just awful. First blaming Europe, followed claiming victory over the virus right at the beginning of it hitting the US, claiming he's got a scientist mind, suggesting injecting disinfectant into the bloodstream, promoting not wearing a mask, holding massive rallies with zero social distancing. Man, so much.

But when he stated that the virus was created in a laboratory in Wuhan and everyone thought he was just rambling his idiocy, turns out the guy might have been into something. Coz there's actually a Wuhan virus laboratory and they admitted to have been testing with Corona viruses (not Covid19) so who knows? The opening of the movie "28 Days Later" comes into mind.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

It originated in bats. Bats are winged mammals that migrate.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

I don’t know.

I don’t trust China but I don’t trust the elites and their MSM puppets either. Certainly if it was released deliberately and it wasn’t China, then we’d get questionnaires about China. Oh wait...

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Li-Meng Yan's paper apparently proves that the virus was created in the Wuhan lab.

I haven't read it yet, but for anyone interested:

Unfortunately the papers depends on the reader not have any experience about molecular biology to seem logical, in reality it proves only that she does not know how to support her explanation with real evidence.

One strains makes her whole analysis moot? she arbitrarily excludes it without justification.

One full protein not clearly delimited by restriction enzyme sites? then lets take a fragment well known in other coronaviruses for this to somehow prove the sites were artificially introduced.

One motif she really needs to be artificial? she makes a point to saying the codons are really unusual and necessary to put another restriction enzyme site for easy selection, forgetting to mention that half of the codon combinations possible give some site so it would be completely unnecessary to make it using "unusual" ones. (not to mention that a simple primer annealed there can be used for selection without any site even being necessary).

In short, really bad arguments from a scientific point of view, presenting really common things as if they were something unique for the virus.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

All creditable sources show that the virus jumped from animals to humans, probably via bats, in a wet market in Wuhan. Then from Wuhan to the world. Could the Chinese have done a better job containing it? Probably, especially with hindsight. Could the rest of the world done a better job too? Undoubtedly yes.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

The truth will probably never be known. I think it is possible that China isolated the virus and was studying it and it infected a researcher due to a safety error.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

P. SmithToday  07:40 am JST

Deliberate or not, there is no doubt that China needs to take responsibility. 

By doing what? Saying, “Yeah, it came from here and we didn’t alert the world soon enough”? What will that accomplish? You don’t hold other countries to this standard, such as Japan for its rape of Asia, so why are you trying to hold China to it?

Japan had nothing to do with the Covid19 pandemic. Duh.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

I don't know. And how can any of us definitively know?

But I would not be surprised in the least if it was deliberately created and released by the Chinese and perhaps in cahoots with those who have stood to gain by the spread, resultant panic and greater gain of control of the global populace.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I don't think there was any great plan. Don't know where it originated, but everything points to China and it being something that happened due to nature finding a way. Chinese authorities certainly weren't as helpful as they could have been sharing information and limiting what the WHO actually knew, but politicians everywhere would have most likely done the same thing to keep their economies up while hoping it would just go away.

Authoritarian govts have the ability to enforce stricter controls on the public in those locations than free countries have. How China locked down Wuhan and mobilized was very impressive. It was disappointing that effective treatments in China didn't appear to be shared openly with the rest of the world.

It took a few months and tens of thousands of deaths before the US doctors figured out a number of effective treatments for people already sick. Stuff as simple as having patients suspended on their stomachs instead of their backs made a huge difference according to a close relative who works in hospitals as an MD. Many patients don't end up needing ventilators with this simple position change, for example. Lots of other little aspects have been found too.

Perhaps people in China don't have many of the health issues that a typical American would have, so the need for treatment techniques simply wasn't necessary there? Or perhaps enough similar COVID viruses have been spreading through Asia as common colds so antibodies had been more widespread there than in the rest of the world?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

No Country would make a virus and release it in their own country, there's no benefit to doing that.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

"I don't know. And how can any of us definitively know?"

5 ( +7 / -2 )

China may well have created the coronavirus, but you have to be delusional to think they released it intentionally given they don’t have a vaccine

Absolutely delusional to think that they released it intentionally - but we are living in a post-truth world where people decide on their own "facts".

As for it being a manmade virus, I see no evidence as to why it should be - new viruses emerge regularly so it is hardly surprising that a new virus should emerge at some point. According to those working in the field, it the virus does not have the characteristics of a genetically modified virus. However it is not impossible, just an unevidenced claim.

Of the 143 who have voted so far, more than half voted for a variety of an unevidenced conspiracy theory.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

I don't trust the PRC but there's no way they would have deliberately set out to kill hundreds of thousands of people with a virus... that way lies the tinfoil hat brigade. What would they gain? Look at the way the world thinks of China even now - if it was deliberate then it backfired massively.

Nope, it wasn't man made and it wasn't deliberately unleashed upon the world.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Thunderbird2 - exactly. Except I'm usually in the tinfoil-hat-brigade if there is some evidence in that direction. Just don't see it here. I can find all sorts of real-world evil, that making up stuff isn't necessary.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The virus may have started in China, but the last place dealing with it will be the USA. The virus is rampant there, and so many people will refuse the vaccine there that they’ll be dealing with the virus well after the rest of us have vaccinated and moved on with our lives.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

But at least they have the freedom to not wear masks. That’s more important than millions of their people dying.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

How does China benefit? My south London council has spent thousands of pounds of PPE that all comes from China. How do I know? I work in the warehouse and deal with loads of boxes of China's PPE on a daily basis. If it wasn't for coronavirus, we wouldn't have bought lots of stock. And that's just one london council. Think of the amount of customers worldwide. That's how they benefit.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Err Strangerland..Coronavirus has a 99% recovery rate. 99%. MERS has a 64% recovery rate. 99% of people who get CV, don't die. And we locked the world down for that. Mad.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Anyone who think this is a conspiracy and is a manmade virus released by China has been smoking cheaper crack than they already do

In other words, is a silly Trumpy

Definitely it was deliberate by the Chinese.

Any proof?, trumpy..

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Does the government of China have the capability to produce such a virus/coronavirus/pathogen?

One could also debate capabilities of/to a number Countries with equal resources and expert knowledge to manufacture such a virus.

However, the Government of China has refused to allow any comprehensive independent investigation into the origins of this pandemic.

Telling, and the so-called whistle blowers have either been silenced or disappeared.

Coronavirus: Is there any evidence for lab release theory?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52318539

There is evidence, not conclusive, that coronavirus could have been manufactured in a laboratory, possibly in Wuhan.

The question, is the Government of China guilty of deliberately releasing coronavirus, an act of global genocide on par with the holocaust?

Yes, I believe the Government of China modus operandi, appalling disregard for basic human rights of its own people, is evidence enough to warrant punitive sanctions.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I believe Dr. Li-Meng Yan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFlqXPl_hZQ

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

China has incompetent minor functionaries that allowed a covid event to happen and covered it up to avoid criticism from the Chinese Communist Party. And when it was known, there was not enough ''will'' to do what was absolutely necessary to keep it from getting out of the country to the wider world and getting Japan tragically sick. Lots of incompetence. China will deny this, but then, there would be the argument they planned it, but they did not. They have even gone so far as to switch blame to USA and say the USA planted it in their country, but then, it shows China not able to control its own self against foreign interference.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Given that history shows the CCP is not averse to killing large numbers of the population under its control to further its own strategic goals, it's not out of the question that they created and intentionally released this virus. But it'll be almost impossible to prove. Still, the safest position is to assume the CCP acted with malicious intent, based on their actions since the virus came out.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

davidnorell, yes, thought, action, choice, a pragmatic political methodology.

The Government of China must have been aware far earlier than stated.

The people of China will ultimately bare that failings of Government.

Does Chairman of the Central Military Commission Xi Jinping give a damn, i doubt it.

Xi Jinping would have dissenters and miscreants, lined up naked, waiting for showers.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I voted don't know. Anything else, and you really need to show the evidence.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

When you want to release a virus or 'plague' or whatever to destroy your enemies, you don't release it in your own country first and watch your own men drop dead.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Does the government of China have the capability to produce such a virus/coronavirus/pathogen?

Well from the Li-Meng Yan paper I linked to above:

While the above evidence and analyses together appear to disapprove a natural origin of SARS-CoV-2’s RBM, abundant literature shows that gain-of-function research, where the Spike protein of a coronavirus was specifically engineered, has repeatedly led to the successful generation of human infecting coronaviruses from coronaviruses of non-human origin44-47.

Record also shows that research laboratories, for example, the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), have successfully carried out such studies working with US researchers45 and also working alone47. In addition, the WIV has engaged in decades-long coronavirus surveillance studies and therefore owns the world’s largest collection of coronaviruses. Evidently, the technical barrier is non-existent for the WIV and other related laboratories to carry out and succeed in such Spike/RBM engineering and gain-of-function research.

And I will repeat again that Dr Luc Montagnier (Nobel Laureate) also believes the Wuhan lab was doing such research and that SARS-COV2 likely originated there.

I haven't spent enough time on Yan's paper yet, but I tend to think the virus did come from that lab. They certainly have the ability to create it.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Well from the Li-Meng Yan paper I linked to above:

There is a very obvious reason why an institute dedicated to the study of emerging viral diseases and coronaviruses in particular is located in Wuhan, and that is because a lot of the isolations of new strains of wild life coronaviruses come from this area. There is no surprise then than another one came from the place they turn up so frequently. Yan keeps trying to confuse between cause and effect, it is not that a new coronavirus coincidentally found near a virology institute, it is an institute put specifically in one of the regions where coronaviruses frequently come out.

Unfortunately the paper of Yan et al. is badly written, misleading and badly discussed, the only point she keeps trying to make is that it is possible to make the virus, but she cannot justify how the mutations observed were so different from what coronavirus specialists were doing even at the institute she want to push as responsible. It is very different to show how something we found out works can be produced in the lab than to show how it could be produced before anybody knew it could work that way.

And I will repeat again that Dr Luc Montagnier (Nobel Laureate) also believes the Wuhan lab was doing such research and that SARS-COV2 likely originated there.

The problem is that Montagnier has not current scientific credibility, he actively promotes deeply anti-scientific ideas that have been repeatedly proven false. Getting a Nobel do not mean the mind will be as sharp until death, and he would not be the first nor the last that ends up mixed into a lot of nonsense.

I haven't spent enough time on Yan's paper yet, but I tend to think the virus did come from that lab. They certainly have the ability to create it.

Non-chinese professionals of virology that have are of the opposite idea, the way she cannot defend any of her accusations without hiding very pertinent information (beginning with not disclosing very important COIs) makes it clear she could not get the evidence she was looking for and have to pretend perfectly well described things have a secret meaning that nobody but her could find out.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

So the logic is that China would create a virus to shut down the economies of most of its biggest customers around the world - USA in particular, ok, if anything the Chinese are astute business people and into making money so it seems to go directly against that.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

So the logic is that China would create a virus to shut down the economies of most of its biggest customers around the world...

I don't think its release was intentional. Luc Montagnier seemed to be aware of the kind of research they were doing at Wuhan and he believes it was an accidental release. He received a Nobel Prize for his discovery of HIV and has worked at the Pasteur Institute and at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China.

He's 88, but when I heard him talk about the virus coming from Wuhan, he seemed quite lucid (not a senile old man).

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I don't think its release was intentional. Luc Montagnier seemed to be aware of the kind of research they were doing at Wuhan and he believes it was an accidental release. He received a Nobel Prize for his discovery of HIV and has worked at the Pasteur Institute and at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China.

At this point he believes anything that is presented to him, from DNA producing electromagnetic signals to reiki magic and homeopathy. His mind is not what it used to be and the entire scientific community pities him.

He was also already demonstrated wrong with COVID19.

https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/luc-montagnier-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-pseudoscience/

He's 88, but when I heard him talk about the virus coming from Wuhan, he seemed quite lucid (not a senile old man).

You heard wrong, everybody knows by now that he abandoned the pursue of truth and now just repeat whatever theory somebody throws at him without bothering with analysis nor proof. That is the thing with science, everybody can be wrong no matter how eminent he could be, a school kid with proof can demonstrate a Nobel prize wrong without problems. People without scientific background easily get confused by this because they think the name of the person is the important one, not the scientific evidence.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

There is a conspiracy theory that people within the ruling CCP who are not happy with the current chairman's direction deliberately released the virus. There are factions in the CCP. The chairman used to be a 10 year term but now the rule has been changed that it can go beyond 10 years. Xi is trying to stay in power forever and this does upset a lot of people in power.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

You heard wrong, everybody knows by now that he abandoned the pursue of truth...

Hmmm, that coming from someone who says that a vaccine is "perfectly fine" even before it undergoes clinical trials...

Anyway, Li-Meng Yan will be on Valuetainment in a few hours; the host is an excellent interviewer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJxlOgC9Yr0

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Hmmm, that coming from someone who says that a vaccine is "perfectly fine" even before it undergoes clinical trials

A vaccine CAN be perfectly fine, there is nothing preventing that and it is the normal, usual situation, differently from what antivaxxers that do not understand science think.

Anyway, Li-Meng Yan will be on Valuetainment in a few hours; the host is an excellent interviewer

Her manuscript is more than enough to discredit her work. It has been done already and her arguments are indefensible. Scientifically that is where she could actually support her accusations, there is nothing she can say in an interview that could be more informative than her sloppy methods and manipulative half truths, the most she can do is just give excuses. Professionals that actually read it before trying to defend her (and that still have a discerning brain) concur that her "proof" is anything but it.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Her manuscript is more than enough to discredit her work....Professionals that actually read it before trying to defend her...

Did you actually read it. The few parts that I read made perfect sense, and I've been doing genetic manipulations for decades...

As you probably realize, I tend to not agree with your posts. But all of your other posts, although I did not agree with them, they were at least intelligible. But the one where you criticized the paper didn't make much sense, the grammar was awful. I am not attacking you, all of your other posts were well written (albeit wrong), but that one was unlike you. Where did you copy it from?

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Did you actually read it. The few parts that I read made perfect sense, and I've been doing genetic manipulations for decades...

The paper is a short read, and the mistakes and manipulations very evident. If you think it makes sense it is very difficult you have done any kind of molecular biology work, ever.

Single restriction sites instead of multicloning sites as proof of manipulation? reducing the expected full protein manipulation to a domain because it has the sites and has been used for other viruses as proof? why not mention the sites are present naturally there and THAT is why everybody used them since it is not necessary to introduce them? a motif with "rare" codons as proof it was artificially introduced? again she forgot to say that half of the codon combinations that could produce that motif make RE sites, so it would be completely unnecessary to use "rare" codons for it. (and also the site is completely unnecessary since RFLP is not necessary for screening when you can just anneal a primer 3' end there and you can screen much more easily and in a shorter time. A strain makes her principal argument impossible and so she just arbitrarily eliminate it referencing just preprints as "justification"? quite lame

Etc. etc. etc. even a postgraduate student in his first year could keep finding problems and invalid arguments all over the manuscript.

That is what reading papers means, not just trying and failing to understand what they say like those where "massive" doses were not such because you did not even try to read the actual paper.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Amazed to see top vote here being China deliberately released the virus. I wonder where you get your information from? Also how does China benefit? It doesn’t

If Trump is defeated in November, China benefits greatly.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

More and more evidence is coming out that points towards a man made virus, and it being released on purpose.

For example, in China, during their lockdown - flights were still being encouraged to overseas locations - some say, on purpose to spread the virus through selected carriers.

The CCP has been proven to be totally untrustworthy - they will cheat, lie, steal, copy, bully, persecute & torture with impunity.

So, unless you're a brainwashed CCP supporter living in a CCTV Bubble, then you must surely have doubts in your mind over whatever the CCP says.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The worrying trend is for the CCP to buy Political opinion from other Countries through it's Belt and Road initiative, and combined with the threat of either no longer buying your Countries' exports or imposing restrictions upon imports from your Country, they have successfully "bought" Silence and non-opposition from Nations big, and Small.... hopefully the US won't succumb to the same persuasion.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@Alex Simovic - put the competition out of business by undercutting prices then you control the market and can sell at whatever price you want.

Take a look at Facemask manufacture as an example of that, and furthermore how they (the CCP) held the World to ransom by buying up all the PPE Globally, and withholding it, only to sell back at inflated prices. They even had the Audacity to Sell back donated PPE originating from Italy!

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

If you think it makes sense it is very difficult you have done any kind of molecular biology work, ever.

I have been teaching molecular biology for about 15 years and done molecular biology experiments since the late 1980s. There is noting in your comments that discredits Yan's paper; you're just throwing insults around.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

I have been teaching molecular biology for about 15 years and done molecular biology experiments since the late 1980s. There is noting in your comments that discredits Yan's paper; you're just throwing insults around.

Appeals to authority are meaningless without proof of identity, It is as valid as me saying I have won 13 nobel prizes in coronavirus research and that is why you are wrong. Simply empty non-arguments.

It is more telling that you are unable to even understand the criticism, much less refute even a single point, almost as much as considering Montagnier a current scientist when it has been proved repeatedly to be just a sad victim of his age.

Every single problem with Yan's paper is easy to spot and those are not the only ones, the whole manuscript is riddled with similar problems but unfortunately it requires at least a little experience on the theme to be able to see them, obviously you don't have it (and that is why you could not defend it) but that is not necessarily something negative, professionals work to explain this to the public such as you that have no need to understand it.

The problem is trying to pretend to understand something you have no interest, and to be someone you are obviously not.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

There is noting in your comments that discredits Yan's paper;

Virusrex posted some points that questioned suppositions from Yan’s paper. You are supposedly a molecular biologist who knows what he’s talking about, so why not address the actual points brought up by Virusrex?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Anyone answering this poll is mad. In fact, we are all mad, just to be here talking about this.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Definitely created and deliberately released by Communist China as a form of biological warfare. 100%. Dont believe any "scientist" who claims otherwise, theyve been paid off by the PRC. Communist China is the ONLY country doing well out of this. Hardly any of her citizens died, they were completely prepared and locked down within days.

Communist China is sitting back, watching the USA losing trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of citizens (their death toll will be 500,000) rubbing their hands together and laughing.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I don’t know if China manufactured and released this on its own people as a cover to spread it to other nations. But it is a fact that Chinas sociopathic leadership elites have never had a problem wiping out millions of there own.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Also, about li-meng Yan, it’s impossible to give credibility to any information from the “Rule of Law Society, founded by Steve Bannon and Guo Wengui”

invalid CSRF

1 ( +3 / -2 )

China is a big and most populous country, it is a Capitalist economy with a single party government labeled as Communist for the convenience of China bashing justification. Compare the China with the next in size population India and see the misery the co called, oligarch controlled, democracy delivers to its people. Most of the Chinese live better and safer lives than average Americans while the average Indian lives in poverty.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

When is the CCP going on trial in the world court ?

Where do we submit the bill for damages ?

When is the hanging ?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Planted in China by Putin.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Virusrex posted some points that questioned suppositions from Yan’s paper. You are supposedly a molecular biologist who knows what he’s talking about, so why not address the actual points brought up by Virusrex?

Her comments either don't make sense or don't discredit Yan's paper. I suspect she did not understand her paper...

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Virus originated in China. Manmade or not, China had so much responsibility to inform everyone, but it seems over time, they take none whatsoever. Hence, they are the culprits here. Their leaders officially recite policies of World Trade Organization, United Nations and what not, but unofficially they provoke everyone by blatantly breaking rules and norms and then play victim cards when someone responds with iron fist. Worst thing is, even after covid crisis, it seems world is sucking up so much RMB that they still won't change world order as it have become.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Her comments either don't make sense or don't discredit Yan's paper. I suspect she did not understand her paper...

For a professional they all make perfect sense, a layman that has never understood the manuscript on the first place could of course not understand them, let alone discuss them. That is obvious.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@London_Bhoy My south London council has spent thousands of pounds of PPE that all comes from China.

Request for clarity:

The Chinese deliberately launched SARS-CpV-2 so they could sell PPE to the rest of the world?(?) Can't read any more of these...

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Is this a test?

Some of the replies here are fascinating, albeit in a clinical fashion.

The virus, in all likelyhood, comes from massive disturbances to the ecosystem. The encroachment into forests, the use of exotic animals in cusine, the human/animal proximities... it was bound to happen, eventually.

Communist China is the ONLY country doing well out of this.

Except that China is authoritarian and Xi is a cult dictator - it's far removed from communism.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@David L. Suarez

Just don’t trust China. Distrust and verify at all times. Individually and collectively

Very well put. And now just for the coronavirus either.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It was clearly manmade as such a mass pandemic spread so suddenly (and is still mutating).

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Definitely manmade.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

man made

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

One only has to compare national economies: while so many nations are in decline, China's economy has been on the rise for months now. They are profiting.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Definitely Not China. It's just people, careless and ignorant people from all over the world.

It wasn't meant to be but it just happened recklessly. However, made both pros and cons.

Bad for some people, industry, econony

Good for nature, animals.

I think virus is controlling the world between people and the rest as nature, animals, plants.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

We non of us know where or how this virus came about; theories and supposition abound but clarity is not possible as long as China refuses to cooperate with an open international investigation. That very refusal and endemic secrecy feeds the suspicion and disbelief.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Like it or not, it is a biological weapon by china (don't want to use capital C for a country who is solely responsible for misery of the world). china has won WW3 without firing a bullet. Appears that china had vaccine and vaccinated the most part of its population before hand. Othetwise, howcome china has 10 cases a day while US struggling with 40 K a day. china has already induced millions of job losses worldwide, all economies struggling except china. Now I leave on you to make interpretations.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@virusrex A vaccine CAN be perfectly fine, there is nothing preventing that and it is the normal, usual situation, differently from what antivaxxers that do not understand science think.

Ah King Virus, I had better hopes for your opinion from a different article but this comment above has serious, irremediable flaws which point to a superficial understanding of virology but a shallow understanding of 'science'. The term "anti-Vaxxer" always sets me off because it is a term directly from Big Pharma marketing departments as part of a carpet bombing of ANYONE who would suggest that their vaccines might create disease as a side effect. The issue arose when a physician in the UK raised questions regarding the number of anecdotally reported cases among just his own patients of Autism appearing in children subsequent to receiving the MMR (measles, mumps, Rubella) vaccine. Such a substantiated connection would be VERY damaging to Big Pharma's carefully constructed and highly doubtful credibility. BUT, what if we turn such people, parents of now Autistic children, into "CONSPIRACY THEORISTS"¹ by filling Big Pharma's captive (advertising) media with images of superstitious, stupid people who could believe that "Science" could have it wrong! How dare they!. But, please note that about the time that Scientific American published the report on the vaccine debacle in the Philippines, the "anti-Vaxxer" media attack suddenly vanished. Co-incidence? Naw... The MMR is a particularly aggressive vaccination protocol asking the very young, nascent immune system to handle not only some very virulence-related epitopes but also whatever adjuvant (see: Gulf War Syndrome) is used with this immunogenic bomb. There was never an "antiVaxxer movement" except that created by Big Pharma lies. There WAS and IS an anti-MMR movement, but nobody doubts the efficacy of vaccination as a defense, just those who make vaccines and make promises which, as we see in the Philippines, are not true and are based in the opinion the Seller has of their own 'intelligence' and 'infallibility', not in Documented Knowledge (aka 'Science' for nonscientists). And, as we see in the MMR situation, their credibility is also based in how well they can silence those who would hold them accountable for their mistakes. In fact, virusrex, with every post you make, your credibility declines considerably and approaches that of Corporate.

Notes"

¹ 'conspiracy theory' is currently the "STOP THINKING HERE" control code for both the left and right wings of the American political establishment in their propaganda to their 'faithful' followers. AUTHORITY speaks, minds stop.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Virusrex has been laying out scientifically based arguments.

William's argument just devolved into screaming "BIG PHARMA", then claiming a lack of credibility because "corporate".

That's a well laid out argument William. You win the internet.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Li-Meng Yan's paper has been thoroughly destroyed (easy reading sources:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/09/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd/

https://en.as.com/en/2020/09/18/latest_news/1600419725_620901.html

Her work was sponsored by a group affiliated Bannon.....if that isn't enough to arouse suspicion then your QAnon shirt is too tight and constricting blood flow.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What an asinine poll question and set of choices. Do you think the whole country of China is behind this? Yes or no? Ridiculous.

Or balance it out with the same question only substituting America for China and don't bother narrowing it down to the Pentagon or CIA. Ask if the whole country of America was behind it. FFS

On top of that you only get one choice but multiple options may be true. Figure this out please.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

We basically don't know anything and the world is full of other bad actors such as the CIA, the Revolutionary Guard, Mossad and Russia's FSS. Its not just the Chinese MSS. Oh yeah. There is some good fuel for theories related to labs in China, but that does not mean no Chinese lab was ever infiltrated by some other org that effected an action there, or had some other org do there best to make it look like a separate org did something bad.

Anyone hot to blame China in general or the CCP or MSS but not any of the other bad actors in the world is an ignorant fool.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

People cannot survive without conspiracy theories, or am I missing something?

All serious scientific articles say it cannot be a man made coronavirus.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The term "anti-Vaxxer" always sets me off because it is a term directly from Big Pharma marketing departments as part of a carpet bombing of ANYONE who would suggest that their vaccines might create disease as a side effect.

Reference needed, personal beliefs are not reality. So obviously you can prove this, right?

The issue arose when a physician in the UK raised questions regarding the number of anecdotally reported cases among just his own patients of Autism appearing in children subsequent to receiving the MMR (measles, mumps, Rubella) vaccine. Such a substantiated connection would be VERY damaging to Big Pharma's carefully constructed and highly doubtful credibility.

The same physician that was found to fake the data of his study, break almost all ethical rules to do it, and whose purpose was found to be to smear a totally safe health intervention just to promote his own version of the vaccine? yeah sure, believing this amoral ex-physician that had his license revoked instead of the real scientific evidence of safety is part of what irrational people in a cult-like state of mind would do.

BUT, what if we turn such people, parents of now Autistic children, into "CONSPIRACY THEORISTS"¹ by filling Big Pharma's captive (advertising) media with images of superstitious, stupid people who could believe that "Science" could have it wrong! How dare they!.

Strawman, there are perfectly normal people that do not need to reject science in the least and present perfectly valid concerns about vaccines, and this may surprise you but those people are frequently the same people in charge of keeping others healthy.

In reality only irrational people that have science explained to them only to be rejected in favor of a shadowy conspiracy that have zero proof are the ones qualified as antivaxxers. Including those that keep repeating false pseudoarguments even after those were proven false repeatedly. Insisting in using lies when you know they are lies is not what someone honest and rational would do.

But, please note that about the time that Scientific American published the report on the vaccine debacle in the Philippines, the "anti-Vaxxer" media attack suddenly vanished.

Thus proving that your belief was wrong, because if you were right that is precisely the moment where the "attacks" would have to be the strongest right? to disqualified those accusing vaccines of not being perfect. But what happened was the opposite, because the people that were criticizing it were actually supported by science, and thus not part of the irrational cult.

The MMR is a particularly aggressive vaccination protocol asking the very young, nascent immune system to handle not only some very virulence-related epitopes but also whatever adjuvant (see: Gulf War Syndrome) is used with this immunogenic bomb.

Epitopes related to virulence are by themselves not dangerous nor aggresive. That would be like saying that teaching children in the jungle to avoid tiger-like stripes is "aggresive" because the stripes are related to violence.

MMR is not particularly aggresive not something that the immune system at the vaccinating age is not able to deal with. If that were the case every children would die the first time they play in the dirt because it exposes them to several orders of magnitude more quantity and variety of antigens that all the vaccines they would receive in their lives. This is just a myth unsupported by science.

There was never an "antiVaxxer movement" except that created by Big Pharma lies.

You ignoring something does not mean it does not exist, as every physician involved with immunization can confimr there is a too obvious movement, and big pharma has not to say anything to make them obvious, every parent that unnecessarily worries about vaccines by false, mistaken ideas (like the one you previously used) is enough to make their effects obvious.

There WAS and IS an anti-MMR movement, but nobody doubts the efficacy of vaccination as a defense, just those who make vaccines and make promises which, as we see in the Philippines, are not true and are based in the opinion the Seller has of their own 'intelligence' and 'infallibility', not in Documented Knowledge (aka 'Science' for nonscientists).

Then who is opposing vaccines all over the world using false arguments repeatedly proved as such? there IS an antivaccine movement well alive, just much less strong than the members would like you to believe. And no, documented knowledge is several steps below science, science is the method to validate that knowledge, just registering it is deeply insufficient.

And, as we see in the MMR situation, their credibility is also based in how well they can silence those who would hold them accountable for their mistakes.

False, credibility is based in their record, a completely unrelated but extremely positive thing to do is to silence scammers and crooks that poison the scientific record just to obtain economic rewards for their own. How many antivaxxers were disbarred on the Philippines? It may have to do that they used the science that was on their side instead of paying kids on a party to get blood samples.

In fact, virusrex, with every post you make, your credibility declines considerably and approaches that of Corporate.

Because I use scientific, objective arguments to prove lies are false? yeah sure. But even if that were the case it is irrelevant, none of the reasons I use to prove antivaxxers as irrational people that give more importance to their own ego than the health of the children depend in any way on my credibility. I could be the president of a pharmaceutical company or the parent of 2 children killed by vaccines and every reason I give would be supported exactly the same.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I realize it's hard to be optimistic right now, but by the time the virus is under control, science will have made huge strides in understanding how diseases are spread and how their spread can be controlled. Faster ways to obtain test results to determine if a person has been infected, for instance. New treatments. And so on. In some ways, though, Covid-19 hardly seems different from the Spanish Flu of 1918; but future generations will benefit. That's not to say that some really virulent pathogen --- one that kills humans of all ages before treatment can be applied --- won't appear someday. Microbes will always be with us.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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