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Alarmed by anti-Korean demonstrations in Tokyo, anti-discrimination groups in Japan are calling for a law to make hate speech illegal. Would you support such a law?

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No matter how abhorrent, freedom of speech should be just that - free. Who says what is to be banned and what isn't? Laws like this can easily be manipulated by the government.

13 ( +26 / -13 )

In the meantime, a permit for demonstrating in Shin-Okubo should be be refused on the grounds of harassment.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I'm sure the vast majority will agree that hate speech should be made illegal.

But what use would it be if it isn't enforced?

They already have anti-discrimination laws on the books but often times aren't enforced.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Karma, in Korea they spew this crap all the time and they don't think it will eventually blow back at them? I'm not condoning what is going on in Tokyo but can you blame them? Korean culture seems to be one of demanding apologies but never really accepting them and then forcing generations after to suffer because of the generation that caused the problem. With a mindset like that, once you've done something wrong in the eyes of Korean culture you, your family and possibly your country may be destine to infinite hate and no amount, a thousand pardons or one massive deep felt apology will EVER make it better. Back to square one and what we see in Tokyo are people saying to Koreans "get bent, we don't care anymore". Again, can you blame them?

-3 ( +15 / -17 )

The fact that it isn't a crime is shocking.

3 ( +16 / -12 )

As long as Japan has freedom of expression, any word can't banned. Hate speech is just a moral problem like it should not be spoken in public.

3 ( +8 / -4 )

They already have anti-discrimination laws on the books but often times aren't enforced.

They do?? That's news to me!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

'I'm not condoning what's going on in Tokyo but can you blame them?' Yes, I can and you should too. So those rightwing idiots are not to blame for harassing a group of people living in Japan for what is going on in Korea? These are not people with intelligent, well-thought out grievances. If people want to protest, do it outside the embassies and if this lot want to spend a day continuing to make zoo noises outside their cages, let them do it there. Of course freedom if speech stands, but intimidating people ( has anyone asked them their opinions? ) where they live based on their ethnic group isn't acceptable.

1 ( +6 / -6 )

Under the Criminal Code of Japan, defamation (article 230), insult (article 232) and verbal threatening (article 222) are all illegal. What else do we need to add in the book?

1 ( +9 / -8 )

That's the problem with imposing limits on free speech. If it's only ok in certain times and certain places, who gets to say what time and place? Bill Cosby? By limiting free speech you inherently make people unequal, however noble your intentions. Obviously free speech does not mean speech without consequences, and blatantly incendiary speech falls under defamation, insult, etc. Just because your feelings are hurt/you don't agree does not mean people need to be silenced. Niemöller said it best:

"Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me."

It is a crime against humanity to limit speech simply because it hurts people feelings. So, no. It should NOT be made a crime.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

if the definition of "hate speech" is "discrimination/hate speech about nationality in a public place" , then yes. And it should be enforced to not allow those groups to assemble and demonstrate in public.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

It's just ugly, should not be allowd to happen just anywhere, wouldn't want my kid to come across with them. They should only be allowed to gather in certain area, not in just any street.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Japan did nothing for years and years of anti Korean protests, and the Japanese media even hardly covered this issue, while Koreans were getting murdered in Japan with the Japanese police doing nothing. (see the case of the racist attacks against Koreans which never made the Japanese press, including that of Scott Kang).

Now they want to do something about it because the Olympics are here, and it wouldn't look good for Japan in front of the world. So those protest marches must stop at least until the Olympics are over.

No. I say let them speak and act. Let the world see what's really underneath Japan. Even if they stop the marches, the internet is still there for the Japanese right wingers to spread their hate. Just look at the Youtube's, it's awash in thousands of new anti-Korean videos that get uploaded everyday by the Japanese organizations who stay up all night 7 days by 24 hours, digging for dirt on Koreans, then uploading them on youtubes and other internet sites.

-4 ( +18 / -22 )

One of the core problem is the preferential treatment Zainichi Koreans recieves. They are allowed to stay in Japan indefinitely without naturalizing which is totally unheard of elsewhere. Keeping them in an immigration limbo had gone too far.

-8 ( +8 / -15 )

In theory it sounds good, but they don't enforce the laws on the books anyways so this would just be a way to do nothing while appearing to do something. Reality is that education is key to learn to respect others.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

As long as Japan has freedom of expression, any word can't banned. Hate speech is just a moral problem like it should not be spoken in public.

It's not about the word itself, it's about how words are used to spread hate. For example, the word "n****r" is used by a lot of black people, but that is fine apparently; when a white person says it though, they are treated like the bastard son of the Devil and the Grand Wizard of the KKK.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

In many countries hate speech is illegal but in many of those countries, the government is democratically chosen. I'm concerned about how the LDP would manipulate the law to outlaw speeches against the government for causing 'public confusion.' And how they enforce it against a group that traditionally doesn't vote for the LDP but not enforce it against a group that traditionally votes for the LDP. Again, for causing 'public confusion.'

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Instead of silencing the hate, people need to condemn and take on the hate. There should be a limit to what people can say before they fall foul of other laws, but there doesn't seem to be. This young lady went viral with her hate speech, but little was ever said in condemnation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOW6QJfeoo

This kid of hatred should be brought out into the open, and should be taken on and condemned by Japan's political class, but of course it isn"t. The reality is that Japan's right-wing extremist tacitly encourage hate speech against China and Korea, just as politicians in those countries tacitly approve anti-Japan propaganda.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Banning speech, any kind of speech, is fundamentally wrong. Ban people with a too low IQ instead.

1 ( +6 / -4 )

Look at all the countries that have anti-hate speech laws already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

E.g. Australia; Australia's hate speech laws vary by jurisdiction, and seek especially to prevent victimisation on account of race.

In Switzerland public discrimination or invoking to rancor against persons or a group of people because of their race, ethnicity, is getting penalized with a term of imprisonment until 3 years or a mulct.

Sweden prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or express disrespect for an ethnic group or similar group regarding their race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation

The demonstrators in Tokyo would have rightly been arrested and those who openly spew hatred towards Koreans on Japan Today could face charges. A victory for humanity in Japan!

Is such a law even on the table?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

In any normal country, calling for mass murders of a group and calling for harm of that group, would be considered a crime, not free speech. Instead in Japan, everyone around that girl agrees and grunts and shouts approval. Only in Japan.

But like I said, it's good that the Japanese are uploading these videos to the public, it only making them look pathetic. Like I said, I think they should be allowed to speak their rotten minds.

-7 ( +12 / -19 )

As much as I despise hateful speech, it is a slippery slope when you start limiting free speech and it is far more likely to do society dire harm than good.

You cannot help if there are people out there who are flat headed enough to hate others simply for their race or nationality. Nor can you keep those same flat earthers from speaking their minds. It is a price we pay for liberty of speech.

But you can fight back by other means. You can hold counter rallies. You can point out the absurdity of such thinking. You can help raise awareness of the damage that such hate does to society.

But you cannot take away the right speak, even when we do not like what is being said. That leads to tyranny.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I think hate speech should be banned from public forums; free speech is too advanced a concept for humans today to use without harm, it inevitably leads to polarization and division of society into groups.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

letsberealistic, I am not sure how banning hate speach means "a victory for humanity".

Defamation (article 230), insult (article 232) and verbal threatening (article 222) are all illegal under the Criminal Code of Japan. Calling a black a "niqqer", shouting "Kill Koreans", or displaying a card on which "Koreans are whores" is written is illegal. Making new laws to prohibit these acts is redundant.

What is not illegal now in Japan and may be illegalized by a possible hate speech law is such a statement like "I hate Koreans." or "Let's hate Koreans." I think such statements are distasteful, but do not think they should be criminalized, unless the words translate to threatening. If they are threatening, they are taken care of as verbal threatening.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

I'll support anything that gets those idiots in the black vans with blaring speakers off the streets.

1 ( +5 / -5 )

so called hate speech are nothing but the anger and frustration of demonstrators. Unless and until its not harming physically to any one its OK I believe.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Who is going to define "hate speech"? This is a very slippery slope.

As a vague, blanket law, this is a VERY bad idea.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I would support a law against hate speech like the kind being discussed here. Freedom of speech was always meant to have limitations (i.e., you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater). Limiting the ability of these people to go into foreign communities and scream hate at people who are just trying to live their lives sounds fair to me.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I am for free speech, so even though I may disagree with something being spewed hatefully, I don't think it should be banned. Its all subjective. I think that the some of things being yelled out through the loud speakers on those black bang buses with fascist music in the background in front of the embassys are pretty hateful, but I don't think they should be banned....the moment you start banning free speech, is the moment society is going to turn really ugly.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Hate speech/hate crime laws = thought police... bad idea

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What would happen to JT if hate-speech were made illegal? Half the posters would have to be thrown in jail. : )

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Karma, in Korea they spew this crap all the time and they don't think it will eventually blow back at them? I'm not condoning what is going on in Tokyo but can you blame them? Korean culture seems to be one of demanding apologies but never really accepting them and then forcing generations after to suffer because of the generation that caused the problem. With a mindset like that, once you've done something wrong in the eyes of Korean culture you, your family and possibly your country may be destine to infinite hate and no amount, a thousand pardons or one massive deep felt apology will EVER make it better.

Koreans not accepting any Japanese apologies? What about the fact that Japan seems to be unable to make an apology without constantly trying to downplay or simply deny the wrongs. Current Japanese PM the best example. Jewish people suffered more greatly at the hands of Nazis, but they no longer ask for apology because no German chancellors have ever tried to downplay their past crimes.

How many apologies must Japan issue? Answer is ONE, as long as it is not later retracted or at risk of revision.

3 ( +13 / -10 )

Are you sure about this? They have been marching and blaring with signs saying "Kill good and bad Koreans", "Koreans are cock roaches", and even one school girl was blaring on to call on a massive uprising on the Japanese people to massacre the Koreans. In all cases the police just stood there and watched them and protected them. If it was illegal, they would have been stopped.

Defamation (article 230), insult (article 232) and verbal threatening (article 222) are all illegal under the Criminal Code of Japan. Calling a black a "niqqer", shouting "Kill Koreans", or displaying a card on which "Koreans are whores" is written is illegal. Making new laws to prohibit these acts is redundant.

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

chucky3176

They have been marching and blaring with signs saying "Kill good and bad Koreans", "Koreans are cock roaches", and even one school girl was blaring on to call on a massive uprising on the Japanese people to massacre the Koreans

If that were true, why would not they just file a complaint?

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Because it's not illegal? But you just claimed, they are illegal.

-7 ( +10 / -17 )

CH3CHO, it is all absolutely true, and here is the link, if you didn't see this before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOW6QJfeoo

It may be illegal in the criminal code, but the police don't look very interested. They probably view this as freedom of speech, same as Japan's far-right politicans do.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Japan did nothing for years and years of anti Korean protests,

Wow, I gotta call you out on that one. I lived in Shinjuku 7 chome until 5 years ago. I used to walk to Shin Okubo station everyday because I moved just before the Fukutoshin line opened. There were NO such protests. None whatsoever. Shin Okubo was just full of older Japanese ladies who loves k-Pop idols.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

I'll say this. It might suck for the Koreans, but I am against virtually all restrictions on free speech, including this whole "hate speech" crap. Don't tell me how many countries already have it. It is a slippery, dangerous slope that is ignored by people too used to their free speech rights. This is IMHO a path to which Japan should not follow.

-5 ( +5 / -11 )

chucky3176, have you read the articles of the Criminal Code? There are all kinds of forums on the internet. The worst kind is where simple veryfiable facts are disputed for a long while. Chuncky, why do not you do some favor for all the readers here by reading the article before commenting?

Saxon Salute

Read article 232 of the Criminal Code. Defamation and insults are deemed a crime only after a complaint is filed. This article is there to prevent too much involvement of police into freedom of speech, by limiting what police can investigate only to cases where the victim thinks a crime. So, the question is whether they filed a complaint. If not, the police should not get involved.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

smithinjapan

The only funny thing about the anti-Korean demonstrators is that they are freaking out because your average Japanese consumes more of SK products (in terms of entertainment at least) than they do the home grown stuff

Will you set the record straight? Korean dramas have very low TV ratings (audience measurement) in Japan. You can check that at the web page of Video Research. http://www.videor.co.jp/data/ratedata/b_index.htm

Korean dramas have never had enough viewers to be listed on the top 10 drama list any week. In spite of these low ratings, Fuji TV continued airing Korean dramas because the cost was cheap. This is why there were so many protesters against Fuji for better programs. If Korean dramas were interesting, there would not have been any protesting.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Free speech was a hard fought right in most countries that have it, so no, we all need to protect it even when groups are saying things that makes our blood boil.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

CH3CHO, yeah, manual-dori Japan at its best eh. A land where the police can watch a group of extremists screaming for the massacre of local residents, filmed and uploaded on youtube, but have a technicality to hide behind, so do nothing.

You told chucky this was untrue, well it is not untrue. It is absolutely true, and is all over the internet.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Free speech should not be illegal no matter how bad the situation is. If you limit the freedom for people to speak their minds, it makes it easier for the government to control what the people should say. Free speech must be preserved.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@zichi It's not about statements that make our "blood boil" it's about statements that invite hatred. It's not just about being upset about hatred comments it's the effect such statements have on society and impressionable minds.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Interesting, I always heard that that Japanese discriminated against the Koreans living in Japan. Our family knew a beautiful girl from Japan who was Korean and moved to America--as a kid I always wondered why? My parents later told me that no one in Japan would marry a Korean girl no matter how beautiful she was.

Well I guess it's still an ugly topic. So much for diversity in Japan. In L.A. the Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodians, CHINESE, Taiwanese, Filipinos, Indians, and the rest of the Asian immigrants from Asia get along just fine amongst themselves as well as with everyone else here (whites, blacks, Mexicans, etc etc).

Now why is this such a difficult thing for the Japanese?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

and who would decide whats hate speech?

those rightwing cronies are full of such drivel or lemme guess, they would only ban hate speech against the japanese, the other way round is ok

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@letsberealistic Nice theory, but in truth, that can be used to ban even reasoned criticism.

For example, take the whole Zainichi and their special rights problem. Since they do have some special rights not available to other foreign residents, they are a legitimate target for criticism. But now you can say the criticism invites hate against them and ban it.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The Anti Korean Hate demonstrations should not be permitted in Koreatown to harass and threaten the safety of the residents, visitors, and businesses.

Any Anti Korean demonstrations should held away from Koreatown in a controlled confined space such as a park or a public space.

I've lived in Koreatown in Los Angeles - I am 100% the Los Angeles City government would not allow any Hate demonstrations to parade down Wilshire or Olympic Blvd on a weekly basis for public safety and business concerns. Any demonstrations would relegated to MacArthur Park.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

lonebeagle

My parents later told me that no one in Japan would marry a Korean girl no matter how beautiful she was.

According to 2010 census of Japan, number of couples living in Japan by nationality

Japanese husband, Korean wife: 44,193

Korean husband, Japanese wife: 29,332

Korean husband, Korean wife: 56,818

It is always good to verify what people say about Koreans in Japan.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I think I would only agree if the law also included provisions that anyone here in Japan that talks about revising the history of WWII be found guilty of "hate" speech because of how it inflames people from countries that suffered greatly at the hands of the IJA. And anyone as well that blatantly says the comfort women never existed should also be found guilty of hate speech crime.

Failing to include both of those then no I don't agree.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

No. Do not ban thier freedom of speech. I know it sounds tempting, but allowing them to vent provides two benefits. 1) it allows the venting of frustration that could go elsewhere in a very unpleasant manner and 2) it allows you to know that there are such groups and get a relative gauge of influence of the parties in question.

I know it's distasteful, but a truly mature society puts up with people that are general creeps

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Yubaru

anyone here in Japan that talks about revising the history of WWII be found guilty of "hate" speech

This is a living example of why "hate speech" should not be criminalized. Do you see how s/he conveniently defines hate speech? The problem is that what Koreans teach their children at school as their history is pretty much a white washed version of history. Another problem is that Koreans do not realize that fact.

For example, how enthusiastic were Koreans in pursuing the war against the US and the Allies? There is a lot of evidence that they were pretty much enthusiastic, but I believe Koreans will never ever admit that. Koreans want to believe their white washed version of their history. Unless Koreans revise their white washing policy, criminalizing "hate speech" as Yubaru defines is out of the question.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I would support it if China and South Korea equally had such laws. What good is it just for Japan to have such a law while China and South Korea support it to the government levels?

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

SamuraiBlue

One of the core problem is the preferential treatment Zainichi Koreans recieves. They are allowed to stay in Japan indefinitely without naturalizing which is totally unheard of elsewhere. Keeping them in an immigration limbo had gone too far.

Perhaps you'd like to read something called a history book. Some of them were forcibly taken into Japan as "imperial subjects" when Korea was annexed.

Anyway hate speech is already illegal in many European countries.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Thomas Anderson

That is mostly a myth fabricated by the Koreans since majorty came on their free will for better wages. You'll find tons of immigration papers that support this fact and even if was true were talking about 2nd, 3rd,etc. generation Koreans not the original immigrants. We owe them nothing and yet they recieve preferential treatment even compared to Japanese. That is the whole Zaitokukai is complaining about.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

SamuraiBlue

That is mostly a myth fabricated by the Koreans since majorty came on their free will for better wages.

Some were forcibly taken, some were semi-forcibly taken, and some voluntarily immigrated to Japan. But even then when Korea was annexed, they were "Japanese". And when the war ended, suddenly they were no longer "Japanese". What the hell were they supposed to do, then?

You'll find tons of immigration papers that support this fact and even if was true were talking about 2nd, 3rd,etc. generation Koreans not the original immigrants.

You've got to be kidding me. So you're saying that it's their fault that they were born in Japan? How is it any different than you being born into Japan, except that your parents just happened to be Japanese?

We owe them nothing and yet they recieve preferential treatment even compared to Japanese. That is the whole Zaitokukai is complaining about.

WHAT "preferential treatment"? Please show SOURCE instead of regurgitating Zaitokukai garbage.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Thomas Anderson

They can easily naturalizing at the age of 20 IF they choose so it's their choice of free will. As for their preferential treatment you can read examplest in Wiki Japanese.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9C%A8%E6%97%A5%E7%89%B9%E6%A8%A9

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@ chucky

No. I say let them speak and act. Let the world see what's really underneath Japan. Even if they stop the marches, the internet is still there for the Japanese right wingers to spread their hate. Just look at the Youtube's, it's awash in thousands of new anti-Korean videos that get uploaded everyday by the Japanese organizations who stay up all night 7 days by 24 hours, digging for dirt on Koreans, then uploading them on youtubes and other internet sites.

Says the guy who devotes a considerable amount of his time to bashing Japan on a Japanese website.

In any normal country, calling for mass murders of a group and calling for harm of that group, would be considered a crime, not free speech.

Way to take one example and run with it chucky. Its obvious that the girl in that video is mentally unstable. I've personally seen similar things happen in Seoul. Is ROK also not a "normal country" by your definition?

Instead in Japan, everyone around that girl agrees and grunts and shouts approval.

And by "everyone" you mean the three or four right wingers accompanying her.

Only in Japan.

Or Korea ....

But like I said, it's good that the Japanese are uploading these videos to the public, it only making them look pathetic. Like I said, I think they should be allowed to speak their rotten minds.

Sounds like "hate speech" right there if you ask me.

@ samuraiblue

One of the core problem is the preferential treatment Zainichi Koreans recieves. They are allowed to stay in Japan indefinitely without naturalizing which is totally unheard of elsewhere. Keeping them in an immigration limbo had gone too far.

I admit to not knowing much about this so-called "preferential treatment". But so far I've been allowed to "stay in Japan indefinitely without naturalizing" .... so what's the difference?

@ letsberealistic

The demonstrators in Tokyo would have rightly been arrested and those who openly spew hatred towards Koreans on Japan Today could face charges. A victory for humanity in Japan!

Ridiculous. Unless anyone here is advocating crimes then they won't be charged with diddly. Just like the Korean trolls who frequently post here about "disemboweling" and "dismembering" anyone who posts stuff they don't like. Think any of them got charged?

The laws of Japan should be left up to the citizens of Japan to determine. The last thing Japan needs is a bunch of foreigners telling them what kind of laws they should enact.

I've been called names right to my face, refused service in restaurants and discriminated against in many ways since coming to Japan. Know what? I don't care. If I wanted to be a crybaby about it I'd hightail it back to my home country where everyone speaks the language of political correctness. But words don't hurt me so I just smile and go on with my day. Sticks and stones and all that ....

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

They can easily naturalizing at the age of 20 IF they choose so it's their choice of free will. As for their preferential treatment you can read examplest in Wiki Japanese. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9C%A8%E6%97%A5%E7%89%B9%E6%A8%A9

That has got to be lol and many of them are either easily refuted, or the Japanese government themselves were involved with creating so-called "special privileges" (such as tax exemptions for Chongryon). It's funny how you guys never complain about it directly to your government?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@OssanAmericaJUL. 08, 2013 - 09:19PM JST

I would support it if China and South Korea equally had such laws. What good is it just for Japan to have such a law while China and South Korea support it to the government levels?

Such childish perspectives result in no change anywhere! As your mother no doubt said, don't worry want others do and take responsibility for your OWN actions first. Step up to the plate and take the initiative, be the adult in the relationship (China, Japan, Korea).

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The laws of Japan should be left up to the citizens of Japan to determine. The last thing Japan needs is a bunch of foreigners telling them what kind of laws they should enact.

Oh give me a break... Japan is an international country and many foreigners and people of different races come to Japan or live in Japan. Japan is part of UN and Japan has signed and ratified the "International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination" treaty, except that it reserved the part where it would "outlaw hate speech and criminalize membership in racist organizations".

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

letsberealisticJul. 08, 2013 - 11:04PM JST "@OssanAmericaJUL. 08, 2013 - 09:19PM JST I would support it if China and South Korea equally had such laws. What good is it just for Japan to have such a law while China and South Korea support it to the government levels?

Such childish perspectives result in no change anywhere! As your mother no doubt said, don't worry want others do >and take responsibility for your OWN actions first. Step up to the plate and take the initiative, be the adult in the relationship (China, Japan, Korea).

Nothing childish about it. Japanese reaction towards China and South Korea has been and IS a reaction to the rampant anti-Japan sentiment in China and South Korea, actually supported by their governments. THAT needs to be stopped first before worrying about "hate" on a significantly less civilian level. Cause and Effect is not a difficult concept.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

@OssanAmerica

Nothing childish about it. Japanese reaction towards China and South Korea has been and IS a reaction to the rampant anti-Japan sentiment in China and South Korea, actually supported by their governments.

How about stop "reacting" and being reactionary as Japan is prone to do and make decisions and laws based on what you (Japanese people) believe to be right, moral and just and not what others are doing.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Insulting a group of people because of its origin, gender, religion, skin colour, sexual preference, or whatever different from the "norm" has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Oh give me a break...

So you think non-citizens should have a say in what kind of laws are enacted?

Japan is an international country and many foreigners and people of different races come to Japan or live in Japan.

So what? There is a long list of countries that I won't visit because their government policies sicken me. I assume people who feel the same way about Japan could easily just avoid coming here.

Japan is part of UN and Japan has signed and ratified the "International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination" treaty, except that it reserved the part where it would "outlaw hate speech and criminalize membership in racist organizations".

Eliminating all forms of racial discrimination is a pipedream. Prosecuting people for holding racist beliefs is a waste of taxes and the court's time. Unless any actual crimes are committed people should be free to hold and express the opinions they want.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

OssanAmerica

Nothing childish about it. Japanese reaction towards China and South Korea has been and IS a reaction to the rampant anti-Japan sentiment in China and South Korea, actually supported by their governments. THAT needs to be stopped first before worrying about "hate" on a significantly less civilian level. Cause and Effect is not a difficult concept.

Ossan, for supposedly being an American, you care awfully a lot about how SK and China feel about Japan...

If they cared so much about SK and Chinese governments, then why do they not complain about it to them? Instead, they make protests about killing Koreans that have nothing to do with anything. Zaitokukai's protests are clearly based on their xenophobic and racist views, as well their envy and jealousy towards the Zainichi and South Koreans. And it's not just the Koreans and Chinese, they're also against foreigners in generals. They protest about "kicking out foreign criminals". They have also protested against white people during Halloween, saying "This is not a white country". They are known to discriminate against burakumin, the disabled, women, the elderly, etc.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

You will never find this kind of hate speech in Korea. If some crazy guy got on a bullhorn screaming about killing Japanese, they would be told to shut up and the police would be called for public disorder. There's a reason why it's illegal to deny Holocaust in Germany and hate speech laws exist in the US. The fact this level of racism is allowed to exist and even supported is the real story here.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Who here really believes this, that this is about protesting boring dramas?

This is why there were so many protesters against Fuji for better programs. If Korean dramas were interesting, there would not have been any protesting.

Come on... stop the excuses..

Samurai Blue, if the Koreans naturalized, they'll still be targeted. In fact, the biggest complaint that Japanese have toward Koreans is that Koreans pretend they are Japanese, when they're not really Japanese (despite the Japanese passport, all they can speak is Japanese, culturally are Japanese, and have no ties with Korea). Thus the reason why you see the accusation "He is Korean" whenever there's a high profile murder in Japan. It happens all the time.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

Thomas Anderson

Ever heard of the old saying "There's no smoke without fire"?

It's a relic of old preferential treatment towards the original immigrants which is still carried out till this day due to stubborn beaurcratic practice. Tell me why else would the Zainichi Koreans maintain their Korean citizenship in Japan if there wasn't any insentive?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Wasn't there a case just recently when a Japanese man found out that his fiancee's great great great great great grandfather was a Korean, so he cancelled the wedding? The woman who unfortunately had a few drops of Korean blood in her, sued the man in the court. I haven't heard what happened after that. But the matter is, it used to be acceptable in Japan, at least up to the 1990's, for parents to hire private detectives to catch any prospective sons and daughters in laws, that they don't have the dastardly plan to hide their true ethnic backgrounds. So I call BS on the claim that these protests would go away if the Koreans simply naturalize. They'll just find another excuse to hate, claiming that they're not real Japanese trying to destroy Japan internally or something like that. They already do now.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

SamuraiBlue: Then simply complain about it to your government.

It's a relic of old preferential treatment towards the original immigrants which is still carried out till this day

lol, just lol. Do you really believe that the immigrants back in the day (with no human rights law in place) received "preferential treatment"? Foreigners today still don't get much respect in Japan.

Tell me why else would the Zainichi Koreans maintain their Korean citizenship in Japan if there wasn't any insentive?

Well see here's when it'd help to learn a little bit more about history. Many Koreans after the war resisted "Japanization", and for whatever the reason, not naturalizing meant keeping their Korean heritage. I'd say this is understandable, but not very practical and it is an outdated idea. And it's not as if it's very easy to naturalize. Some Koreans were not accepted because they had incredibly minor offenses like parking tickets or whatever. So you see it was the Japanese government that were deliberately keeping them OUT of obtaining Japanese citizenship. Once again you should be blaming the Japanese government for all this mess that they've created.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

E.g. Australia; Australia's hate speech laws vary by jurisdiction, and seek especially to prevent victimisation on account of race. In Switzerland public discrimination or invoking to rancor against persons or a group of people because of their race, ethnicity, is getting penalized with a term of imprisonment until 3 years or a mulct. Sweden prohibits hate speech, and defines it as publicly making statements that threaten or express disrespect for an ethnic group or similar group regarding their race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation

Note: Not one of the above allowed asylum to Snowden. = I assume truth is "hate speech" also for these countries. -It is almost a badge of honor to get rejected by them it seems.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You will never find this kind of hate speech in Korea. If some crazy guy got on a bullhorn screaming about killing Japanese, they would be told to shut up and the police would be called for public disorder.

http://japanese.china.org.cn/photos/2010-10/21/content_21171922_8.htm

This man has been arrested?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Papi2013JUL. 08, 2013 - 11:57PM JST Wasn't there a case just recently when a Japanese man found out that his fiancee's great great great great great grandfather was a Korean, so he cancelled the wedding? The woman who unfortunately had a few drops of Korean blood in her, sued the man in the court. I haven't heard what happened after that. But the matter is, it used to be acceptable in Japan, at least up to the 1990's, for parents to hire private detectives to catch any prospective sons and daughters in laws, that they don't have the dastardly plan to hide their true ethnic backgrounds. So I call BS on the claim that these protests would go away if the Koreans simply naturalize. They'll just find another excuse to hate, claiming that they're not real Japanese trying to destroy Japan internally or something like that. They already do now.

Sadly ironic since Japanese are mixed race and, in fact there is no Japanese "race" per say, they are descendants of peoples from a variety of areas including Mongolian, Korean, Chinese, aboriginal Taiwanese and Ainu, among others.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Thomas Anderson

LoL there are 350 thousand zainichi Korean who has special permanent resident status. Don't tell me all has outstanding traffic tickets under three years since they are purged after three year under law. They could have registered as a Japanese or go back to Korea after the war but they remained without naturalizing even though they could have carried out their Korean heritage after becoming a Japanese citizen.

It's an outdated law and as I said before they should either return to Korea since they obtain Korean citizenship or naturalize without this loopsy indefinite permanent resident status.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

I'm all for freedom of speech and whatever, but there are some things that should fall outside of that category. Hate speech (particularly the kind that incites violence and religious extremism) and discriminatory speech should be made illegal and enforced strictly. There is no justifiable reason to start making hate speeches in public places. It's abhorent and illogical. There's enough hatred going around as it is, without the need for people like Abu Qatada or these anti-Korean demonstrators to add to that.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Speech expressly inciting violence should be illegal.

However, simple hate speech ("XXX suck," "I hate XXX," "YYY are better than XXX.") should be protected. You can't force somebody to not hate somebody else. Governments cannot (should not) regulate thought. Rather, people with these kinds of opinions should be exposed.

Consider the Ku Klux Klan in America: Does anyone take them seriously? Has anyone taken them seriously for the last 30 years? No. They are free to have their marches, rallies, protests, even having (probably necessary) police protection. Many consider the downfall of the KKK to be an investigative journalist who infiltrated then, and explained their workings and organizational structure to the public. The same goes for the Westboro Baptist Church. When hate speech like this goes out for all the world to hear, people can realize just how pitiful the people who hold racial and other biases are.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I would support it if China and South Korea equally had such laws. What good is it just for Japan to have such a law while China and South Korea support it to the government levels?

OssanAmerica, I know your views closely reflect that of neto-uyo's, but where is the anti-Japan hate speech in Korea? There are no regularly held anti-Japan protests, and any protests were far and few in between, usually in response to what Korean nationalists regard as inflammatory remarks by Japanese politicians (e.g. Hashimoto etc).

I am disappointed (but not surprised) at the bias.

Remember that Japanese girl who shouted she would massacre the Koreans? Who was criticised for that? - that girl as well as the Zaitokukai.

Imagine the uproar if a Korean nationalist had done something similar. Everybody will be condemning the entire country of South Korea.

This is a video of Japanese uyoku defacing the Korean flag. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf4z4r73aPI

However you won't see this made an issue on JT. If Koreans defaced a Japanese flag, hundreds of Korea-hate comments accusing the entire nation will flood JT. Sigh.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

>Chucky3176 ''Japan did nothing for years and years of anti Korean protests''

Korea has done something for anti Japanese protests? When they cut and killed some symbolic Japanese birds, yelling at the air port, screaming hate content words and chop a figure of our prime minister's head ? Burning flags of Japan, or these are a part of freedom of speech and expression in Korea? I personally go against these people for the both side. I wish they were not being in Japan and Korea. But the same time, I am not sure yet if we should make laws get involved for this. Who and how draw the line at the site by law enforcement officer would be very tough.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Korea has done something for anti Japanese protests? When they cut and killed some symbolic Japanese birds, yelling at the air port, screaming hate content words and chop a figure of our prime minister's head ? Burning flags of Japan, or these are a part of freedom of speech and expression in Korea?

Koreans killing symbolic Japanese birds is new to me. Would appreciate a source.

Yelling at the air port? Sounds like a truly unusual protest. My apologies to any airports it might have offended.

Burning effigies is a form of protest that happens all over the world. I don't approve of it, but the only places where this is banned are dictatorships like North Korea, or one-party states like China.

I believe the real issue is the harrassment of innocent people. Make your opinions heard in a park or somewhere like that. Don't go to the Korean neighbourhoods and call for them to be slaughtered.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

After end ofWWII, Japan which spent basically from 1950's through mid 1990s under the same conservative LDP government. There was no change in thought or attitude. At best, the Japanese government was able to buy off the Chinese and Koreans, providing loans and grants while those governments kept nationalistic sentiments tamped down. When the LDP hold was toppled in the 1990s, the coalition government was so weak that even though it began reconciliation with a formal apology, it couldn't make much progress before the LDP came back to power one year later. Japan needed a strong center-left party to lead the way. Unfortunately, Murayama and the Japanese Social Democrats were simply too weak. Japan's delay in the process has only made it more difficult for any real reconciliation. Had they done it back when Japan was at its peak, Chinese and Korean nationalism were somewhat under control and Japan had bought some goodwill through economic aid, they might have gotten their message across more smoothly. Instead, now you have Japan in a weak position, China and Korea ascendant, and both those nations experiencing near-rabid nationalistic sentiments, it'll be much harder for all involved to come together.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japan had bought some goodwill through economic aid, they might have gotten their message across more smoothly

I've heard this a lot, saying Japan helped Korea during the 1997 and 2008 economic crises. However, all I've heard is how Japan declined Korea's request for a currency swap deal in the lead-up to the 1997 financial crisis, further jeopardising the crisis in Korea (my only sources are in Korean, sorry but no links).

now you have Japan in a weak position, China and Korea ascendant, and both those nations experiencing near-rabid nationalistic sentiments

Not sure about this near-rapid nationalistic sentiments in Korea. Yes China went nuts with thousands of people causing destruction to Japanese businesses, but in Korea? Most are non-violent rallies such as these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFzikIu9wY and while there have been rallies where Japanese flags were burnt, they are not held with the kind of regularity we've seen from anti-Korea protests in Japan.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Thomas Anderson

Perhaps you'd like to read something called a history book. Some of them were forcibly taken into Japan as "imperial subjects" when Korea was annexed.

I recommend you read this article by William Underwood. http://japanfocus.org/-William-Underwood/2219

EARLY POSTWAR TREATMENT OF KOREANS

Most Korean conscripts had returned to Korea by the end of 1945, but no provisions were made during this period for repatriating the remains of those who had died in Japan.

The Koreans living in Japan now are here with their free will. Those forcibly taken to Japan were sent back to Korea which was Japanese government policy backed by occupying US forces.

And when the war ended, suddenly they were no longer "Japanese". What the hell were they supposed to do, then?

It was US government occupying Japan that ordered repealing of Japanese citizenship for Koreans.

So you're saying that it's their fault that they were born in Japan? How is it any different than you being born into Japan, except that your parents just happened to be Japanese?

Special Permanent Resident Koreans can get Japanese citizenship if they pledge allegiance to Japan. Many did. Those who remain Korean citizens are the ones who refuse allegiance.

the Japanese government themselves were involved with creating so-called "special privileges" (such as tax exemptions for Chongryon). It's funny how you guys never complain about it directly to your government?

Are you suggesting that Japan pass a law to repeal the visas for Special Permanent Resident Koreans?

Special permanent residency in Japan is a strange system. Do you know, in the US, that a permanent resident must apply for naturalization within 5 years and otherwise it is OK by US federal law to discriminate against the permanent resident in workplace?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

CH3CHO: Again, it'd help to learn a little bit about history. When Korea was annexed, Koreans were "Japanese". So some of them came to Japan, whether voluntarily or forcibly. Over 700,000 Koreans were conscripted and were forced to work in Japan in factories and mines and some even to perform sexual services for the soldiers. Many Koreans did jobs that the Japanese didn't want to do. But when the war ended, they were no longer "Japanese", even though they pretty much had to live in Japan. So just because Japan lost the war, they had to "leave"? Some of them were even born in Japan, they could only speak Japanese and only knew Japan.

Special permanent residency in Japan is a strange system. Do you know, in the US, that a permanent resident must apply for naturalization within 5 years and otherwise it is OK by US federal law to discriminate against the permanent resident in workplace?

You do realize that saying that the Koreans who (forced or voluntarily) immigrated to Japan to "go back to Korea" is like an American saying that "black people should go back to Africa"? Sorry but the sheer ignorance of some people is just astounding.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Calling for the massacre/killing of Koreans is not free speech that should be defended. If nothing is done, then what next? Add an education system bent on whitewashing and/or minimizing Japan's past atrocities and a government all too willing to see this through ("Koreans are distorting what really happened and they are telling all these lies to the world"). A government whose leaders that have tried for the last 70 years to whitewash and/or minimize Japan's past atrocities and repeatedly degrades or denies the very acts that they apologized for ("Koreans keep asking us for an apology when we have done so many times"). A country whose economy has been stagnant and seeing signs of decline for the last 20 years (challenged in many cases by Korean and Chinese companies). A government led by people willing to change Japan's pacifist constitution and remilitarize itself ("We need to protect our pride"). And a public who either doesn't care or are all too willing to see it all happen.

So you have a country worried that it is losing it's place in the world, influence receding, long dominant industries challenged, world influence/standing diminished and a country repeatedly condemned by world leaders/organizations for it's inability to move past WW2. A government and public in crisis may be all too willing to find a scapegoat for all its failings...Koreans. What next? A charismatic leader with a psychotic bent???...Germany...Nazi...Jews...one thing may lead to another.

Freedom of speech should be defended but not when it calls for the killing of Koreans.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Thomas Anderson

Again, it'd help to learn a little bit about history. When Korea was annexed, Koreans were "Japanese". So some of them came to Japan, whether voluntarily or forcibly. Over 700,000 Koreans were conscripted and were forced to work in Japan in factories and mines

I know. Everyone knows. What is your point?

some even to perform sexual services for the soldiers.

Are you saying Koreans were conscripted as prostitutes? After decades of trying to find a piece of evidence, Korean government still cannot find any. Does not it occur to you that it was just war time propaganda? Korea had enough prostitutes at the time who were willing to go near the battle field for Japanese soldiers.

But when the war ended, they were no longer "Japanese", even though they pretty much had to live in Japan. So just because Japan lost the war, they had to "leave"?

Tell so to Korean government and US government at the time. Those Koreans were "conscripted". Conscripted workers should be sent back home, where their families live. Are you saying that worker should be separated from their family once they were conscripted to another place?

You do realize that saying that the Koreans who (forced or voluntarily) immigrated to Japan to "go back to Korea" is like an American saying that "black people should go back to Africa"?

This is where your problem exists. A SPR Korean is a Korean citizen who refuses to be a Japanese citizen. A black American is an American citizen. It is wrong to tell a black American citizen to go home. But US government pretty often tells, for example, black Kenyan nationals or black Malawi nationals to go home. Do you see where the difference is? A SPR Korean can obtain Japanese citizenship by pledge allegiance to Japan. You cannot compare apples and oranges.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Are you saying Koreans were conscripted as prostitutes?

Yes, they were recruited as teishintai (chongsindae in Korean). They also worked in ammunition, textile, and other factories.

After decades of trying to find a piece of evidence, Korean government still cannot find any. Does not it occur to you that it was just war time propaganda?

lol.

Conscripted workers should be sent back home, where their families live. Are you saying that worker should be separated from their family once they were conscripted to another place?

They were not paid any wages or compensation for their work and they still haven't been compensated by the Japanese government and corporations. They were too poor to even go back home.

A SPR Korean is a Korean citizen who refuses to be a Japanese citizen. A black American is an American citizen.

Excuse me? African-Americans were given American citizenship, while the Japanese government refused to do so for Koreans and other foreign citizens that were even born in Japan. Maybe it's the fault of the Japanese government?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Thomas Anderson, you seem to need healthy skepticism.

they were recruited as teishintai (chongsindae in Korean).

Teishintai is a totally different thing. There are a lot of testimonies by former teishintai women that Koreans keep confusing teishintai with comfort women and that makes them depressed and discriminated in Korea. Thomas, you are guilty of perpetuating the predicament of the former teishintai women.

They were not paid any wages or compensation for their work

Their wages were renounced by Korean government in 1965 when the Korean Japan Basic Treaty was concluded. In return, Korean government received compensation from Japanese government, from which personal compensation should be have been made to the workers. But Korean Congress appropriated the money for economic development. I think that was a wise use of money for people actually benefited more in the long run.

while the Japanese government refused to do so for Koreans

It is Koreans who refuse Japanese citizenship. Not the other way round.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Teishintai is a totally different thing.

A former Japanese colonial teacher (Ikeda Masae) admitted to recruiting Korean girls (through persuasion, deception and even threatening the girls' parents), as young as 12-14 (added "healthy and good-looking") as teishintai or chongsindae. They were initially forced to work in ammunition, textile, and other factories but some were gradually shifted to performing sexual services for the Japanese soldiers.

Some Japanese activists easily found documents in the early 90s and again found another documents in 2008.

Their wages were renounced by Korean government in 1965 when the Korean Japan Basic Treaty was concluded.

Perhaps you'd like to read your own link that you've posted, under "WAGE DEPOSIT DUPLICITY":

http://japanfocus.org/-William-Underwood/2219

It clearly states that the Japanese corporations never fully compensated forced Korean and Chinese laborers, and the Japanese government defended them. The individual forced laborers were never informed of their compensation by the industry or the government.

Japan had intended to pay state reparations for the 20,000-plus deaths of military conscripts. But Seoul’s stubborn insistence on compensation for the far larger class of corporate forced laborers resulted in the Japanese side’s shift to Plan B: the Japan-South Korea normalization treaty’s lump-sum economic cooperation formula, backed up by the 1965 Diet measure making doubly sure neither civilian nor military deposits would ever need to be paid out. The Japanese government tries to avoid all discussion of the forced labor financial deposits and has never indicated its ultimate plan for the money, said to be frozen in non-interest-bearing accounts.

http://japanfocus.org/-William-Underwood/2219

It is Koreans who refuse Japanese citizenship. Not the other way round.

Then why didn't the Japanese government give Japanese citizenship to 2nd generation and after Koreans? The fact is, the Japanese government do not want non-ethnic Japanese to obtain Japanese citizenship.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

How about a ban on all the old farts on the loudspeakers? Talk about punishment...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Thomas Anderson

A former Japanese colonial teacher (Ikeda Masae) admitted to recruiting Korean girls (through persuasion, deception and even threatening the girls' parents), as young as 12-14 (added "healthy and good-looking") as teishintai or chongsindae.

Teishintai is an elite corps chosen from the brightest girls in class. The girls must have a recommendation of the teacher. What is disgusting is confusing teishintai with comfort women.

They were initially forced to work in ammunition, textile, and other factories but some were gradually shifted to performing sexual services for the Japanese soldiers.

Find a piece of evidence of such a case.

It clearly states that the Japanese corporations never fully compensated forced Korean and Chinese laborers

As I said before, the unpaid wages were forfeited by the Korean government.

Then why didn't the Japanese government give Japanese citizenship to 2nd generation and after Koreans?

Citizenship is not awarded to people who refuse to pledge allegiance to the nation. This is especially true when more than half of the SPR Koreans in Japan are from North Korea.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

*

Mitch Cohen:Koreans killing symbolic Japanese birds is new to me. Would appreciate a source.Yelling at the air port? Sounds like a truly unusual protest.*

Thank you for asking. On July 17th, 2008 the Korean anti Japan demonstration happened. There, some Symbolic birds of Japan were treated this way. You can see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArBNLpvEcUo&list=PL9F918F18D803D33B 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEiCRxL9q6E

Also when 3 LDP politicians went to Korea for a historical research, but big demonstration happened in Kinpo Air Port? The photos show how they got crazy. I saw these news on all major Japanese network TV news. Also they burned JPN National flags with hate writing on the flag and hate speech for Japanese people just I hear in Yokyo lately from about 200 people,these Koreans ripped the emperor's photo as you can see here with hate speech. I do not like these actions. I do not like some 200 people's action in Japan,either. I visited Korean section in Tokyo, I saw more Japanese went against these Japanese anti-Korean flock. In some aspect, this provocation made us think this issue more. I hope this will be a good purifying stage for the both nation to establish better communication for diplomatic overture.

I have respectfully disagree what Korean Government states about Takeshima, and historical issues.Many Japanese feel the same way but a very small numbers of Japanese really commit to do this unacceptable demonstration. I am sure that the photo you see from the scene of anti Japan demonstration in Korea is the same situation. I believe these extreme people are real minority.

The main issue of this article makes me think is that how much laws should control people's expression when we go through the moment when the commonsense is lost.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

CH3CHO

Citizenship is not awarded to people who refuse to pledge allegiance to the nation.

So when you were born in Japan, did you "pledge allegiance to the nation"? No, you were automatically given Japanese citizenship just because your parents happened to be Japanese.

This is especially true when more than half of the SPR Koreans in Japan are from North Korea.

No this is not true, most were actually from South Korea, but they have taken North Korean citizenship during the 50s and 60s because NK seemed to be more prosperous than SK at the time and given them more benefits.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Thomas Anderson, are you sure what you are saying? You are saying;

-Japanese citizenship should be given to Special Permanent Resident Koreans despite they do not want Japanese citizenship.

-SPR Koreans need not pledge allegiance to Japan when naturalizing.

-Most of SPR Koreans in Japan pledged allegiance to North Korea out of their free will when they took North Korean nationality, yet they should be given Japanese citizenship without pledging allegiance to Japan.

What will happen when Japan and North Korea had a war? To which country do those "new" Japanese citizens support? Thomas, be reasonable.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

In this day and age, hate speech should be a crime.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Thomas Anderson, I forgot to say one more thing.

They were too poor to even go back home.

The conscripted Korean workers were sent back to Korea at the cost of Japanese government.

Do not you think it better that internet is free of misinformation? I verify the facts before posting. I hope you do the same.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

CH3CHO: Well you see, none of this would have happened had the Japanese government given them Japanese citizenship in the first place. They obtained North Korean citizenship because they had no choice, otherwise they wouldn't have had any benefits or protection. There would have been no need for the Zainichi Koreans to establish the South Korean Mindan or the North Korean Chongryon. The Japanese government was mostly responsible for creating this whole mess by deliberately neglecting the Zainichi Koreans and failing to integrate them into the Japanese society.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Thomas Anderson

none of this would have happened had the Japanese government given them Japanese citizenship in the first place.

What are you talking about? Japanese government gave them Japanese citizenship until the US government took it off of them after the end of the WW2. Japanese government gave Japanese citizenship to those SPR Koreans who pledged allegiance to Japan. The remaining SPR Koreans are those who refuse to pledge allegiance to Japan. They do not want Japanese citizenship, and Japan does not want to grant them Japanese citizenship. It is a win-win situation. Why do you keep saying that Japan should force them Japanese citizenship? At some point in time, they will be given a chance to finally decide their national identity, be it when a war starts with NK or other.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

CH3CHO

What are you talking about? Japanese government gave them Japanese citizenship until the US government took it off of them after the end of the WW2.

Yes, so after the 1952 San Francisco Peace Treaty the Japanese government took away the Japanese citizenship from ethnic Koreans and they became foreigners, even though they were Japanese before. They were obviously not given Japanese citizenship. It makes no sense that they were Japanese before, and suddenly they're no longer Japanese. And what about the Koreans who were born in Japan?

I think that the Koreans that were born in Japan should be given Japanese citizenship at birth, mainly so that they can vote and fully participate in the Japanese society.

And to reply your last post: Not true, some were too poor to say, even afford the train fare.

There were, to be sure, impoverished Koreans who could not afford the train fare to one of the departure ports (Jon 1984:131).

Zainichi (Koreans in Japan): Diasporic Nationalism and Postcolonial Identity

There were many various reasons why some Koreans stayed in Japan, even one being that Korea at the time was too unstable and impoverished, but I'm pretty sure that Koreans receiving "preferential treatment" was not one of them, since Koreans faced severe discrimination in Japan back in those days.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Thomas Anderson Jul. 09, 2013 - 12:07PM JST It clearly states that the Japanese corporations never fully compensated forced Korean and Chinese laborers, and the Japanese government defended them. The individual forced laborers were never informed of their compensation by the industry or the government.

Here we go again. Japan paid to South Korea $500 million to settle the WWII case with South Korea in 1965. The South Korea Japan agreement covers the entire atrocities that Japan committed during that time. Now, if you are a South Korean goverment, and you won the case, and settled for $500 million, are you going to ask Japan almost 50 years later and say "well, we didn't cover everything, and you need to pay more"? Why don't the Japan goverment step and and say the case was settled, signed, sealed, and delivered and no more. Maybe there is more to this story.

Japan saids the agreement compensated the entire issue. Now South Korea is saying it has not. Somebody is not telling the entire story.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/AgreementBetweenJapanandtheRepublicofKoreaConcerningtheSettlementofProblemsinRegardtoPropertyandClaimsandEconomic_Cooperation

Article II 1 The High Contracting Parties confirm that the problems concerning property, rights, and interests of the two High Contracting Parties and their peoples (including juridical persons) and the claims between the High Contracting Parties and between their peoples, including those stipulated in Article IV(a) of the Peace Treaty with Japan signed at the city of San Francisco on September 8, 1951, have been settled completely and finally.

It says all claims have been settled complety and final.Both sides signed of their claims. If some claim is found after the sign off, it is too late and the claim is void.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I am surprised that Japan hasn't moved quickly to ban these protests, which are harming Japan's image as the uber-cool, friendly nation.

After all, Japan cares a lot about its image and how she is perceived by foreigners.

Zaitokukai should be free to voice their opinions regarding what they regard as preferential treatment for Zainichi Koreans. But calling for their massacre should be illegal, and so should harrassing innocent Koreans running their businesses in Tokyo.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I am surprised by the "yes" votes here. I would remind you of the US reaction to 911 in which sweeping powers were granted to the government out of fear of terror. Years later we now find that these powers extensively violate our privacy and our liberties.

You cannot let people who spew hatred over rule the common good of free speech. Even if you do pass laws against it you do not solve the root problem, which is the hatred itself. You simply cannot legislate people into being rational or giving up prejudice.

But you can easily react out of good intentions and do your own liberty considerable harm by encouraging the passage of laws that may one day harm democracy and liberty.

What you define as free speech may one day be interpreted by the state as hate. Criticism of the government could easily become "hate speak" as could any unpopular point of view.

We cannot continue to give away rights that previous generations had the wisdom to secure for us. Or we will be in a state where everything is legislated and no one has freedom. For me I would rather tolerate the negative language of a few to protect the freedom of the whole rather than silence a few at the expense of our liberty.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Thomas Anderson

They were obviously not given Japanese citizenship. It makes no sense that they were Japanese before, and suddenly they're no longer Japanese. And what about the Koreans who were born in Japan?

That is called "independence". Who lamented the loss of British citizenship when the US became independent? Are you saying that the ethnic Koreans should have been divided in nationality? Korean governments both South and North wanted a nation based on the union of entire ethnic Koreans. They wanted ethnic Koreans in Japan to be Korean nationals. Ask any Korean if s/he thinks ethnic Koreans who were in Japan at the end of WW2 should have been kept Japanese nationals

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

CH3CHO

That is called "independence".

No, actually it would be more like not giving African-Americans American citizenship. The ethnic Koreans lost all their rights and benefits from society overnight when they lost their Japanese citizenship and became foreigners, even though they were living in Japan and have made their lives in Japan. I think it's absurd not to give Japanese citizenship to those who were born in Japan, especially the Koreans whose ancestors may have been forced to live in Japan.

Korean governments both South and North wanted a nation based on the union of entire ethnic Koreans.

There is no such thing, there is South Korean nationality and North Korean (chosen) nationality.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Also when 3 LDP politicians went to Korea for a historical research, but big demonstration happened in Kinpo Air Port?

Why don't you tell the entire story, that would be called the truth? Those LDP politicians were members of the Zaitokukai. Yes in Japan, the government officials actively support them and are even active members of that group. They had announced to their press that they were going to land in the island they called Takeshima by flying over to Korea. The Korean government told the men, not to bother coming. But those men did anyway, out of confrontation and hostility, in direct defiance to fly in the face. They were holed up in the airport, while they made a scene with the press. Outside a small group of Korean protestors began to form, who were irate with the audacity of these right winger hate group members of the Japanese government. Eventually, they were led away and put back on the plane back to Japan, while these politicians raised their two hands and shouted Banzai to the emperor. It was actually a good thing they were return, for the sake of peace and sanity.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Mitch Cohen

Zaitokukai should be free to voice their opinions regarding what they regard as preferential treatment for Zainichi Koreans. But calling for their massacre should be illegal, and so should harrassing innocent Koreans running their businesses in Tokyo.

The sun is going to rise from the west, for once I am in full agreement with you.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I seriously doubt anything will change when the some members of the LDP are also financial supporters and members of the hate groups marching in the streets. Therein lies the rub.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

chucky3176, you seem to have made some false memory.

Those LDP politicians were members of the Zaitokukai.

No they were not. Zaitokukai is a marginal group and does not have any parliament member.

They had announced to their press that they were going to land in the island they called Takeshima by flying over to Korea.

No. They planned to visit Dog Do Museum on Ulleung Do to study the position of Korean side on the issue of Takeshima Dog Do issue.

It happened on August 1, 2011. The names of the 3 politicians were Mr. Yoshitaka Shindo, Ms Tomomi Inada and Mr. Masahisa Sato. Check yourself.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

No they were not.

Yes they were. You are just not aware of their past history of actively finanicially supporting the group for their political backing and votes. That's how Japan works, and that's how these groups are allowed to thrive.

No. They planned to visit Dog Do Museum on Ulleung Do to study the position of Korean side on the issue of Takeshima Dog Do issue.

It was a publicity stunt and they knew it. Why did they continue their journey despite South Korean foreign ministry telling them that they will not be issued a visa? Because they wanted to use this to promote and publicize their stunt and flip a finger at South Korea to say, "see? they are unreasonable". The first thing they showed up for was the press circus for their propaganda. Yeah sure they were here to understand the other side. lol...seriously come on... They lived it up, and enjoyed it, you can see them when they did their Banzai as they left for their flights back to Tokyo. But disgracefully deported by Korean immigration.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

chucky3176

Those LDP politicians were members of the Zaitokukai.

No they were not. Zaitokukai is a marginal group and does not have any parliament member.

Yes they were. You are just not aware of their past history of actively financially supporting the group for their political backing and votes.

There is no record that the 3 LDP parliament members publicly or privately supported Zaitokukai. There is no record that they were or are members of Ziatokukai. If you keep spreading misinformation, you will end up in facing criminal charges.

they wanted to use this to promote and publicize their stunt

What is the matter with that? Is there anything wrong with visiting Dog Do museum, studying the position of Koreans and debating the issue with them? If you say that should be punished as hate speech, I totally disagree and strongly support the freedom of speech.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Isn't this a form of bullying...........? Shouldn't everyone should be able to live in a society free from discrimination, bullying, harassment, intimidation and violence? Freedom of speech is important but the way opinions are presented can be bullying. What is happening in Tokyo is bullying in my mind.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Freedom of Speech and Hate Speech are very different things.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

They could do something to curb people's ability to direct protests towards a certain race or nationality, or just foreigners in general.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, they could do something, like maybe make it illegal.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Here's what this article is about, in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0aVy9ARQlE

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is exactly the kind of thing destroying the United States. People are to worried about who they are going to offend to say what is important. It is up to the person listening to choose to be offended, do not give that kind of control to others. Be strong and secure in your own spirit. Let all say what they feel, sometimes it needs to be heard, other times it is just nonsense. Be strong enough to decide for yourself what you should listen too, don't look to laws and the government to do it for you!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This is exactly the kind of thing destroying the United States. People are to worried about who they are going to offend to say what is important. It is up to the person listening to choose to be offended, do not give that kind of control to others. Be strong and secure in your own spirit. Let all say what they feel, sometimes it needs to be heard, other times it is just nonsense. Be strong enough to decide for yourself what you should listen too, don't look to laws and the government to do it for you!

I'm pretty sure you would agree, that chanting "Kill Koreans and Chinese" "Rape Korean women" "Expel foreign criminals" is crossing the line.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Even the most right wing Japanese are against the other right wings who shout racist epithats, go figure.

http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2013/07/10/japanese-right-winger-blasts-anti-korean-rallies/

They want to stop it because they say it's ruining Japan's image abroad, they say. ..lol...

Even the wall street journal is not immune to being flooded with hatred. Some people are making fun of the crash of Asiana jet, which is just disgusting.

http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2013/07/10/japanese-right-winger-blasts-anti-korean-rallies/tab/comments/#comment-86781

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

>Even the most right wing Japanese are against the other right wings who shout racist epithats, go figure.

You don't know what right means, right? That's an overall group of views on politics, economy, internal affairs etc, not only hatred towards Korea as you would like to see it unfortunately. Oh yeah, and the most sinister movements in modern history (communism, nasism) were left-winged in it's basics if you haven't known before.

Even the wall street journal is not immune to being flooded with hatred. Some people are making fun of the crash of Asiana jet, which is just disgusting.

At least there weren't any reports saying 'Thank God the victims were Chinese' in Japan... It seems like you had opened a 'debate' as I wouldn't go on such sites and read comments there...

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

so who decides what is and isn't a form of hate speech?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

so who decides what is and isn't a form of hate speech?

Anti-discrimination commission? Judges? Legislating enforcing the people's will?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

This underlying subculture of hate and prejudice in Japan will forever breed discontent and solidify road blocks in Japanese relations with its Asian neighbors.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The video links provided by commenters made me very sad.

Especially the one of the young girl in Osaka shouting for Koreans to go back to Korea, and that if they didn't they would turn Tsuruhashi into another Nanking. Perhaps I should take heart there didn't seem to be that big a crowd around her, but it was just very sad.

Yeah, freedom of speech is important. But hate speech when used as a weapon, or in conjunction with bullying or terrorizing ppl, shouldn't that be prosecutable?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I applaud the Japanese protestors who demonstrated against the ultra-nationalists, standing their ground and facing the extremists down. Perhaps this is a better response because it demonstrates that the PEOPLE are not prepared to accept hate speech.

While I understand Geoff Gillespie's first post, allowing, say, Orange Order marches through Catholic areas or BNP nazi marches through immigrant-heavy areas is not sensible. Shin-Okubo presents a similar situation.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Freedom of speech is important and if we do not have that then there is control from government on what we can say and not say. Humans do not need any more laws. As it is there is already too much control from all these idiots in power.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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