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Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?

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I think moderate Islam can co-exist in the West. I have many Muslim friends in Australia and the U.S. and they are all decent people. It's the extremists who are the problem. In Japan, the Muslim community don't seem to have any problems.

3 ( +8 / -6 )

To term Moderate or Extreme is a fine line. Muslims I have known are good people. The trouble Muslims (extremist) have been capturing the news daily for decades. If only women practicing Islam would refuse the male dominant rules those extremists would diminish I suspect. They control 50% ,woman only, of their own population. Just think if they could not control women and children and focus on cooperation and community.

This question is a loaded question. I would say yes as it is now. If it were termed "Islamic World", I would say no.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Islam is all of a category, not the wing nutters making the news. Anymore than the Western ones for that matter. So the answer is they already do, it's the extremists on either side that can't get along with anyone else.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

yes. Islam and the western world can co-exist. and any beliefs, for that matter as well. I believe, the problem is with the western world. the west is represented most often by US of A and British. I live in the west and ashamed of it. there is lots of hypocrisy here. why do we go out, first of all, and influencing the world about our brand of life (democracy, for example exemplifies lots of greed). Every country I visited had their own kind of democracy, but they are proud of it. I wish the west will just leave the rest of the world live their beliefs alone. help when we can. that's it.

-21 ( +4 / -25 )

not when they are bent on imposing their beliefs on others....

21 ( +27 / -6 )

sadly not likely, the extremists in the Muslim world are making it bad for EVERYONE, especially for their fellow Muslims

19 ( +22 / -3 )

It's not about the "West". It's Islam versus the rest of the world:Sudan, China, Philippines, Thailand, Myanmar, Nigeria, Central Russia, Banda Aceh, India, etc., all are having to deal with this menace.

It's up to Islam, not the West, to end the intolerance and violence. Muslims need to renounce armed jihad, for starters.

25 ( +31 / -6 )

Anyone who says it's not possible because of extremists (referring to Muslims) fails to see that their own views are extremist on the other side. Point being, it's not just Islamic extremists that are the problem, but extremists in general. It's a two-way street.

-9 ( +11 / -21 )

They can, but the extremists on both sides won't let it happen (and neither will big businesses standing to profit immensely from war profiteering).

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Islam can be a tool for armed revolution and terrorism. Lots of other things can be, also. It's not like the West has nothing similar in their history, even their recent history. Hitler started out as a terrorist.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?

They already do. There are some nutters at the fringes who don't co-exist peacefully, but that has nothing to do with Islam or the Western world, it's just nutters.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Yes, but we all need to go retro. World peace .... there are a couple of words we hardly hear anymore, except in the context of a post enemy-smushing situation ... that's a problem, because until you can envision it, it can't happen.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Brainiac:

" In Japan, the Muslim community don't seem to have any problems. " You probably forgot that the Japanese translator of the "Satanic verses" was brutally murdered, and the publsher of the book assaulted and injured. So would hardly say "not any problems".

Nobody disputes that Japan in general does not have a big problem with islamists. But the islamic community here is tiny, so that is not saying much. In neighbouring Phlippines, there is ongoing islamic terrorism, as is in Thailand, in China, in Burma, and in Indonesia. In Malaysia, the non-muslim minorities are discriminated against by the pro muslim laws of the country. So, the general picture here is hardly encourating.

The general problem is Islam has never had a period of enlightenment. So even moderate muslim communities continue to produce these "misunderstanders" that we worry about. It is an issue that should be addressed inside islam, but alas is not.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Islam is about turning the clock back to time of Saladin, with their medieval pratices and attitudes. It doesn't fit in with the modern world.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

Strangerland:

" They already do. There are some nutters at the fringes who don't co-exist peacefully, but that has nothing to do with Islam or the Western world, it's just nutters. "

If you believe that, can you tell us why both Ayatollha Khameini (the highest religious authority in Shiite islam) and Yussuf Al Qaradafi (the highest religious authority in Sunni Islam) are disagreeing with you? They both insist that Shariah must be implemented all over the world. And can you tell us why no islamic country is a signatory to the UN human rights declaration? Instead, islamic countries have signed the Cairo Declaration, which puts Shariah above human rights.

Ignoring a problem does not make it go away. Only children think that closing their eyes is a solution

13 ( +18 / -5 )

Go back to 1953 and the democratically elected prime minister of Iran Mohammad Mosaddegh. A secular prime minister, democratically elected in Iran, A situation which if it existed today would be hailed as miracle. What happened to Mohammad Mosaddegh, and why?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Social normalcy and tranquility are not a monopoly of western civilizations, and laying blame for world problems on the doorstep of the Islamic religion is just crude jingoism. If the Turkish Ottoman empire were still intact today (not broken up into splinters by the allies in their vainglorious attempts at colonial-nation-building after WWII), the Middle East and Africa would be far more peaceable places than they are at this moment. Istanbul was Constantinople, but now it(s) Istanbul not Constantinople. Simple realities like this should not turn anyone into a half-wit people hater.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

When an estimated 15% ~ 25% of Muslims are categorised as "extremists", I'm going to say "no". Look at ISIS - it's genocide on a mass scale. Almost every war on this planet currently goes back to Islam. Not even Shi'ites and Sunnis can coexist and they have the same god!

10 ( +14 / -4 )

"laying blame for world problems on the doorstep of the Islamic religion is just crude jingoism."

No it isn't. The Muslim world is backward, violent and intolerant, from Africa to the Middle East to Asia. There isn't a single hi-tech, progressive liberal-thinking Muslim-majority country on the planet. None of the BRICs - or any country with a future -- is Muslim majority.

Or do you think that's just a coincidence?

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Craig Hicks:

" Go back to 1953 and the democratically elected prime minister of Iran Mohammad Mosaddegh. "

Why go back 70 years ago? I might as well ask you to go back only to 1979, when the secular Shah, under who Iran was prosperous, minorities were protected, women were free and had equal rights, and Iran was an ally of Israel, was replaced by Ayatollha Khomeini, who prompty installed Sharia, complete with veiling of women, child marriages, death by stoning for homosexuals, and declared war Israel. What happened? Yes American meddling (by Jimmy Carter in that case). Misguided as ever, but you can not hold US meddling responsible for everything in the world. Khomeini is acting on strict islamic beliefs, how about addressing that?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Hang on just a minute! It's only a very small percentage of Islamists that are extreme wackos and want to kill all those that are not Islam. The question should read, "Will the rest of the world ever overcome these religious nut jobs?"

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

willib

Nobody disputes that Japan in general does not have a big problem with islamists. But the islamic community here is tiny, so that is not saying much. In neighbouring Phlippines, there is ongoing islamic terrorism, as is in Thailand, in China, in Burma, and in Indonesia. In Malaysia, the non-muslim minorities are discriminated against by the pro muslim laws of the country. So, the general picture here is hardly encourating.

I'll give you some figures about muslims in some countries ( 5 million in France, 2 Million in Germany, 2.6 Million in U.S.A, 1.5 Million in Italy ), according to these figures do you think that if thus people decided to do some thing wrong in these countries, what would stop them ? ), only Islam rules prevent them to hurt people, although the high level racism which they are facing @ all these countries.

Be fair

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

shaltout:

" 'll give you some figures about muslims in some countries ( 5 million in France, 2 Million in Germany, 2.6 Million in U.S.A, 1.5 Million in Italy ), according to these figures do you think that if thus people decided to do some thing wrong in these countries, what would stop them ? ), only Islam rules prevent them to hurt people, "

Actually, the huge number of muslim in Europe does present huge problems, which is why there is so much debate about it. And yes, it is precisely islam which is the source of the problem. The persistent calls for Shariah and everything that comes with them (like the demand for blasphemy laws, the death threats against cartoonists, apostesies, and islam critics, the demands for polygamy and Sharia courts etc etc) are precisely rooted in islam. Europe has no similar problem with Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus.. you name it.

If you try to present Europe as a case for successful integration of islam in Western societies, that is is huge own-goal.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

WilliB

"it is precisely islam which is the source of the problem

Can's you be a specific & give us an example for these problems?

"the death threats against cartoonists, apostesies, and islam critics

instead of talking about the troubles which came as a result of that, you should think what was the reason for this kind of ridicule, why only Islam got this kind ridicule?! why we don't see any kind of critics for other thoughts or religions?! can't you judge is as a kind of racism?

"If you try to present Europe as a case for successful integration of islam in Western societies, that is is huge own-goal.

Ok, let's try to find another example for the Islam troubles in the other communities, can you give us an example for that? I'm trying to say that if Muslims are acting good in Europe, don't you try ask your self what make them facing troubles in the other community?

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

like Dennis Miller said back in the day on SNL... 'moderate Muslims are the ones who only hold a grudge for 7 generations......'

yikes! there was a time when Dennis was funny AND truthful!!! :-O

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yes. I grew up (as a Christian) around a lot of Muslims (in Dearborn, MI) as classmates, neighbors and friends.

Extremism is nearly always a reaction to something, and the root of that something is nearly always an injustice, or an extreme form of disrespect. Removing that root removes the underpinning of extremism.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Of course!

Questions like these just encourage the racists to come out of the woodwork. And those people are mostly people who don't know any Muslims and think all Muslims are like the Taliban. This is a dangerous question - would you ever ask if Jews could live among Christians?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

No! It's only been a thousand years...!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The more pressing question is whether Muslims can co-exist which each other.

16 ( +16 / -0 )

I don't see much difference between hard line Islamists and hard line Christians.

This is an actual conversation between people I was working with:

"Are you going to move back to the States?"

"We're still not sure. We keep praying for guidance, but He doesn't answer."

"Insha'Allah," for Muslims, "Trust in God" for the Christians.

Both are extreme.

Both need to get a life.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

To my fellow Muslim brothers who live in non Muslim countries, remember that we are ambassador of Islam in that land and that through our good behavior we give a good image of Islam and may even bring non Muslim to have interest in Islam. Islam spread in some countries before through Muslim who went there and by their good behavior attracted many to Islam. So I humbly recommend to all of you and remind myself these few rules :

Respect the law of your host country. Act better than if you were in your own country as you represent all Muslims and Islam. If some people, out of knowledge, make jokes or ask some inappropriate questions about Islam while seeking knowledge, be kind , patient and answer them gently. Never overreact. If some people provoke you and insult Islam, spread lies against Islam, don't bother arguing with them, just ignore them. It is like trying to go through a wall without a door. Let them in their ignorance.But if they put their hand on you (trying to harm you physically), well defend yourself then. If the law of the country you live in doesn't fit our way of life or impose you what goes against our belief then leave that country. There are plenty tolerant countries on this planet.

And to answer the question of JT, yes.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Yes, as long as the agenda of one religion doesn't include the destruction of the other. I think what we're seeing in the world now days is the inclusion of a political agenda hid in the name of religion. A religion that wants to kill and eliminate another religion, will not survive long.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"Insha'Allah," for Muslims, "Trust in God" for the Christians.

You can leave Christianity without the threat of death.

Act better than if you were in your own country as you represent all Muslims and Islam.

Does this mean cutting both hands off of thieves, or neither?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

When we have some democracy, freedom of speech, and religious toleration from Muslim countries, sure.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Disillusioned

Hang on just a minute! It's only a very small percentage of Islamists that are extreme wackos and want to kill all those that are not Islam. The question should read, "Will the rest of the world ever overcome these religious nut jobs?"

I wish that were the case. Unforunately, that "small percentage" you're referring to is as high as 25%, meaning ~400m jihadists. four hundred million.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

You're going to need an Islamic reformation akin to what the catholic church went through 500 years ago. Unfortunately that reformation took just about all of 500 years to get to the point where catholics and protestants stopped killing each other. And they didn't have nuclear weapons.....

Now you've got Pakistan and the ISI busy tinkering with fundamentalism as a part of state policy - and they do have the bomb. This is far more dangerous than any inquisition ever was.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@bertie

I don't see much difference between hard line Islamists and hard line Christians.

Huge difference. Christianity through thousands of years has evolved from going on crusades to killing, murdering, raping and committing the same atrocities as Muslims, you don't see that nowadays. Show me ANY country where Christians are hunting Muslims down and trying to kill and eradicate, chop off peoples heads, castrate women and on and on, it's NOT even in the same Stratosphere.

This is an actual conversation between people I was working with:

"Are you going to move back to the States?"

"We're still not sure. We keep praying for guidance, but He doesn't answer."

"Insha'Allah," for Muslims, "Trust in God" for the Christians.

Both are extreme.

One will cut off your head, force you to pay a tax or force you to convert and one loves death as much as Christians and Jews love life. Bertie, sorry, not even close.

Both need to get a life.

The radical Muslim terrorist Jihadists, I agree.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

I wish that were the case. Unforunately, that "small percentage" you're referring to is as high as 25%, meaning ~400m jihadists. four hundred million.

More like 0.25%.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

I voted no. On a more important question, Can Islam co-exist peacefully with the rest of the world? No for me. Islam can't even co-exist peacefully with itself. This has been a true constant since shorty after the death of it's "prophet" Muhhamad.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Islam is as peaceful as any other religion and every religion and every religion in the world has their own extremist minority.

Of the major religions there are 1.6 Billion Muslim's, 2.1 Billion Christian's, 1 Billion Hindu's and each of these religions have their own brand of extremists and extremist beliefs.

The problem with Islam right now is that their extremist minority have big guns and tanks and are conquering and butchering whatever they can.

The extremist in Islam are splashing their butchery on the web by the truck load. They are recruiting young men and women from all nations to come and join them in Jihad. And sadly for the world young impressionable (and stupid) young men and women are joining in this extremist Jihad.

Now, Islam is seen as a threat to world peace because the extremist who have been allowed to run amuck because of weak world leaders. These world leaders are so desperate to rule the world that they have taken their eye off the ball and helped these extremist to run amuck.

Iraq was ruled by a monster who kept those very extremist at bay. But, what did the West do? Well, they saw an opportunity to make a profit and took it. They removed the one monster and then a floodgate opened.

Then came Libya, it too was ruled by a monster, so the West removes him and once again the floodgates open and monsters run wild.

Syria, the West tried to help Israel by removing that nations monster, but at the last minute started to see what hell they would release if they did remove him, so they stopped and allowed that monster to try and keep power.

Egypt, here too the West thought of removing their monster. But, when they saw that the new monster who was going to rule was the very monster they have been fighting, so the West saw the errors of their ways. Now, allow a different monster to rule.

The Western leaders are just starting to wake up, I just hope it's not to late for the world and world peace.

BertieWoosterAug. 11, 2014 - 09:18PM JST I don't see much difference between hard line Islamists and hard line Christians.

That is true, both have extremists that yell, "Kill anyone who doesn't believe as we do!", but the big difference right now is Islam's extremists are doing just that and they are killing folks by the truck load.

Give it time and the Christian and Hindu extremists might just join that party. And, then we will have another Great Dark Age.

And the only people that will be happy will be the extremists who want the past to return.

StrangerlandAug. 12, 2014 - 04:53AM JST I wish that were the case. Unforunately, that "small percentage" you're referring to is as high as 25%, meaning ~400m jihadists. four hundred million. More like 0.25%.

Might not sound like a lot, but that 0.25% are running amuck in big tanks and carrying big guns killing wherever they go.

Peace is great, but you can never stop an extremist in a tank with love and peace. They will just run you down and yell, "Allāhu akbar and god, is great!" while you scream and beg for mercy.

Only way to stop a monster in a tank is with a even bigger tank. Takes a monster to stop a monster, but most Liberals just don't understand this simple fact. They would rather try and hug those monsters in tanks and give them flowers and say ,"I understand your pains". Then Liberals give money to these monsters in the hopes that that will stop their hate.

Only thing Liberals get for their touchy feely huggy huggys is a bullet to the back of their heads.

The world needs to start acting like monsters if they want to put those Islamic extremist monsters back in their cages.

A monster only understands and fears one thing, violence.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

JoeBigs Aug. 12, 2014 - 06:29AM JST Now, Islam is seen as a threat to world peace because the extremist who have been allowed to run amuck because of weak world leaders.

U.S. relentless attempt to reorder and reshape complex peoples, distant places, and volatile disputes has backfired spectacularly. U.S. has caused problems while proving unable to solve any of them. Those who warned the Bush administration that it was planting the seeds of future conflict were dismissed by officials. Even less clear is how U.S. troops could have created a liberal, democratic, and stable Iraq. Keeping U.S. forces would not have turned PM Maliki into a democratic virtue. If Baghdad cannot defend itself more than a decade after the U.S. invasion, that is Baghdad’s problem, not U.S. responsibility. U.S. consistently botched policies in the Middle East demonstrate the difficulty and U.S. intervention is counterproductive.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@sfjp330 Your attempt to say "this is all the US' fault" screams of Chinese propaganda to me. There have been other conflicts in the world like UK - India and UK - IRA that didn't result in people turning into nutters for generations.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@scipantheist

Half-Million Iraqis died in the War and they were mostly civilians after 9/11. What is U.S. fighting for? Finding WMD?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The jewish bible has been revised several times. The Christan Bible has been revised several times to fit a more modern world in some sense. Not the Koran however, their teachings are still that of the 7th century. Kill Homosexuals, cut the clitoris from women, either convert to islam or die. None of those practices are fit with the western modern world. They need to moderonize and compromise, not the west.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

The world needs to start acting like monsters if they want to put those Islamic extremist monsters back in their cages.

If that is the depth of your civilization, then you have no civilization, and you are no better than those you are fighting. Becoming like "the bad guys" only works for World Wrestling Federation events.... well, okay, it sometimes works in junior high school, too.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

In many places it already does.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

People over here are directly addressing ISLAM for extremist Muslims which is not good. Terrorists have no religion. They are no Muslims,Christians or Jews. I do agree there are Muslims who create problems for all the world (including Muslim World) but its not ISLAM. And people should show some respect, if you havent studied thoroughly about ISLAM then you have no right to say anything against ISLAM. You can say against Muslims not ISLAM. As I havent studied Judaism, Christianity or any other religion so I dont say anything against any religion but its followers. There are extremist (or ignorant) in every religion (I can bet over this!) but they dont belong to that particular religion they just claim to belong to the religion. Now, coming to question yes of course they can live together peacefully. "killing a single(innocent) human is as though killing the whole humanity" is the verse of Quran (koran)

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@JoeBigs How does one bring a bigger tank to fight islamic extremists? These are people that will behead and crucify people for not being muslim and are prepared to sign their whole family up for suicide bombing. You think you can scare them into submission? Maybe the liberals you hate have a better path: let them stew in their hatred safely ignored.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Strangerland

More like 0.25%

No, as I mentioned earlier, official estimates are between FIFTEEN and TWENTY FIVE percent. Not taking sides, but those are thr numbers.

@JoeBiggs

Give it time and the Christian and Hindu extremists might just join that party. And, then we will have another Great Dark Age.

You're forgetting one important detail there - Sharia law. You cannot compare them.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Extreme Islam is the most dangerous of all religions at the moment but that could change. The rise of Fascism in Europe was a Roman Catholic phenomenon and blessed by the Vatican which was still preaching the vile idea of Jewish decide at that time.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@mjh875k

Kill Homosexuals, cut the clitoris from women, either convert to islam or die.

If you can back any of these allegations with some verses of the Quran, I leave Islam today.

And for those who are interested in the truth :

Kill Homosexuals Besides the telling the story of the Sodom and Gomorra (the same as in the bible), there is not a single line about kililng homosexuals. The "killing homosexuals" is only the view of some scholars and there is nothing in the Quran that says it.

cut the clitoris from women There is not a single word about it in the Quran. And for those who are desperate to find a connection with Islam and may look into the hadith, there are some hadith that mentions it but they are all "weak" which means they are unreliable thus forged.

either convert to islam or die. Not a single verse in the Quran about it.

I'm not trying to convert anyone or pushing my belief on anyone, just trying to point out the bad faith of some people in forging lies about Islam. There are just so many fantasies and lies posted here, it will take forever to point them out all and probably not even worth answering.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@multraman I'm from the UK, a country which celebrates a very irreverent sense of humour and where ideas are fair game for satire or ridicule. This sight of people marching with signs saying behead those who insult the prophet disgusted me and many other UK people. Christianity and Judaism are often ridiculed and yet we don't see this kind of reaction ( I can remember the Christ in urine 'artwork', The Life of Brian and a Star of David with machine guns pointing out of the stars ). Would you agree that Islam, an opinion, is fair game for ridicule and people are under no obligation to treat it with reverence? Do you also accept that those living in any country should be free to practice or leave any religion or like myself, have no religious beliefs at all and express my dislike of all organised religions and dismiss their supposed revelations as nonsense?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Jimizo

Have you read my first comment about advices to Muslims living in non Muslim countries? If not , please read it. And when giving such advices to my fellow Muslims actually I point out a lot the case of UK on how some Muslims there behave and spit their hatred on their host countries with violent slogans. I always felt embarrassed by them, and we are the majority feeling that way actually. If we voice it , we are either not listened to or said that we are practicing Taqqiya and if we remain silent, we are told that we agree with them.

Now to address your comment, first I would point out that Islam and Christianity are ridiculed , Judaism no, no one dares (cf. french humorist Dieudonne).

Would you agree that Islam, an opinion, is fair game for ridicule and people are under no obligation to treat it with >reverence?

No, I don't think that the belief of anyone should be ridiculed. When Japanese told me about their belief about many gods or when they go to temple to do some deeds, etc. I don't ridicule it. I think it is disrespectful to ridicule someone culture, country and faith. Having saying this, I don't think a violent response is appropriate either. In my opinion and what I advise to my fellow Muslims is either ignore the provocations or if they want to do something at all cost then make peaceful demonstration without violent slogans as they are useless but with peaceful and educative slogans such as "respect my belief", "believe in what you want and let me believe in what I want", stuff like that.

Do you also accept that those living in any country should be free to practice or leave any religion or like myself, >have no religious beliefs at all and express my dislike of all organised religions and dismiss their supposed >revelations as nonsense?

Sure, why not? And there is nothing in the Quran that states that everyone MUST be Muslims, nothing at all. There is no compulsion in religion. You are free to express your dislike about Islam and most Muslims such as myself are even willing to listen to you , have a debate about it as long as there are no insults. If you try to ridicule or insult my faith, I will just walk away and ignore you, peacefully.

I hope I answered to your questions.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Strange question. what is "islam"? and who are "The Western world"??

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Multraman:

" And when giving such advices to my fellow Muslims actually I point out a lot the case of UK on how some Muslims there behave and spit their hatred on their host countries with violent slogans. I always felt embarrassed by them, and we are the majority feeling that way actually. If we voice it , we are either not listened to or said that we are practicing Taqqiya and if we remain silent, we are told that we agree with them. "

The problem is that the radicals have islamic doctrine on their side, and enough firebrand imams who stress exactly that. You can argue with them, but only with secular arguments, not with religious ones (and those are the only they would accept).

" And there is nothing in the Quran that states that everyone MUST be Muslims, nothing at all. "

I think you know that that is a distortion. Sure, the Koran does not say that everybody "must" be muslim, but it lays out clear rules for the treatment of disbelievers, as it is practised now by ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Sure, the have options.... convert, pay the jihza, or die... So again, the radicals have the scripture on their side.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

It's only a very small percentage of Islamists that are extreme wackos

Large majorities of Muslims in Egypt, Malaysia and Pakistan, some of the largest Muslim countries in the world, support death for apostates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/01/64-percent-of-muslims-in-egypt-and-pakistan-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/

21 countries have laws against apostasy. Care to guess how many are Muslim?

It is not only "a very small percentage of Islamists" that are extreme wackos, unless you think it's not wacky to criminalize leaving one's religion. In the Maldives you can lose your citizenship if you deconvert from Islam. Personally, I think it's wacky, but what do I know?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

'Now to address your comment, first I would point out that Islam and Christianity are ridiculed , Judaism no, no one dares (cf. french humorist Dieudonne).'

Dieudonne has been attacked for alleged anti-Semitism, a form of racism, with a Nazi flavour. Something all decent people should despise. That is us not the same thing as criticizing or satirising the beliefs or tenets of the religion Judaism, which I've heard secular Jews themselves do ( the comedian Lewis Black being the best of them for me ). I'm sure you are well aware that some countries in the Muslim world could teach a masterclass in the foulest anti-Semitic propaganda. If the Muslim world shared your moderate views, we wouldn't have ideas like death for apostates. As a UK citizen, I was appalled to hear that 34% of 16-24 year-old Muslims in the UK support the death penalty for apostates according to a poll last year. This kind of thinking does not belong in a civilised country and the familiar refrain that extremist ideas are limited to a fringe is wearing thin. I've seen prominent Muslim clerics, many supposed moderates, refusing to unequivocally condemn the barbarous idea of killing apostates, refusing to condemn those who want to limit freedom of speech and refusing to condemn treating women as second-class citizens. Until they do, Islam will remain at odds with modern, secular values.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@WilliB

Those you called the radicals have no religious basis to do what they are doing. They are just useful tools for those who spread anti-Islam propaganda. Personally I see them as either really violent psychotic who just look for reasons to be violent or paid thugs to serve the shock of civilization/culture that will be profitable for some greater agenda. And YES you can argue with them on religious ones but they serve their own agenda or are paid to do so , so it is pointless to argue with them, like it is pointless to argue with some who have a blind hatred of Islam and Muslims.

Sure, the Koran does not say that everybody "must" be muslim

There is no but, most anti Islam people are saying that the Quran says so when it doesn't. Accept the fact please. The treatment you mention can be considered as the rules for a foreigner to live in a certain country. They can convert. Yes or Pay the tax. The tax is for them to live under a Muslim state. One of advantages of paying the tax is that if they pay it, they are exempt to fight when the Islamic state is under attack when it is compulsory to any Muslim to fight in case of war. Fair enough in my opinion. We all pay visa taxes , etc, if we fail to pay we cant renew our visas thus we become illegal. It is the same here.

They can die. That is not true. They may be expelled but there is nothing in the Quran that says you must kill a non Muslim who does not pay the tax. There is no death penalty in Islamic law for tax evasion.

ISIS or whatever they call themselves serve a greater agenda which is non Islamic at all. They are doing an excellent job at ruining the image of Islam and who are profiting from it? Ask yourself that question. Hint : Muslims don't, actually it is the complete opposite.

You said that they have the scriptures on their side. Not true. There is no verse nor clear Hadith about it and that is why there are some ongoing discussion on whether Muslims must wait the arrival of al Mahdi and Isa(as) or Jesus for the Christians to reestablish the Islamic state.

The people of ISIS have no religious source to back up their Caliphate, have no religious source to justify killing women and children, have no religious source to justify the execution of disarmed soldiers as we saw in Iraq. The scriptures clearly condemn it.

Now that you know that, ask yourself who is benefiting from all the disinformation about Islam and strangely why only in that area of the world? Hint : Check on the side of those who armed them and support them in Syria.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Thanks, Craig Hicks!

Go back to 1953 and the democratically elected prime minister of Iran Mohammad Mosaddegh. A secular prime minister, democratically elected in Iran, A situation which if it existed today would be hailed as miracle. What happened to Mohammad Mosaddegh, and why?

Mohammed Mosaddegh was ousted in a CIA and MI6 orchestrated coup in 1953, after nationalizing the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, coincidentally rebranded the next year, to British Petroleum Company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

When the Saudis proselytize their intolerant Wahhabi brand of Islam (beloved of ISIS) to the tune of $3Bn per year, should we not ask:

Can Big Oil and the World coexist peacefully?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Jimizo,

Dieudonne troubles started after he made a parody of an extremist Jewish settler. Then instead of a apologizing and submit , he went further and further to ridicule the holocaust. He has denied himself being an anti-Semitic thousands of times. He has clearly stated that we must be allowed to laugh about everything. When he was making fun of the French far right and french , it was OK, when he was making fun of the Arabs, black Africans and Muslims, it was OK when he tried with the Jewish community, the lightning fell on him. Same with the Femen in France has been vandalizing churches and attack Islam but didn't peep a word on Judaism, nor even near a Synagogue.

I'm sure you are well aware that some countries in the Muslim world could teach a masterclass in the foulest anti- Semitic propaganda.

The same about the anti-Islam propaganda in some non Muslim countries. I don't think that pointing fingers at each other communities will fix anything. Finally I'm not going to fall into the anti-Semitic talk trap or talk about the Jewish community thing. I think I have answered your questions on my previous comment.

Thank you and have a nice evening.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

More like 0.25%

No, as I mentioned earlier, official estimates are between FIFTEEN and TWENTY FIVE percent. Not taking sides, but those are thr numbers.

No, as I mentioned earlier, it's more like 0.25%. Official numbers.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

More like 0.25%

No, as I mentioned earlier, official estimates are between FIFTEEN and TWENTY FIVE percent. Not taking sides, but those are thr numbers.

No, as I mentioned earlier, it's more like 0.25%. Official numbers.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Those you called the radicals have no religious basis to do what they are doing. They are just useful tools for those who spread anti-Islam propaganda.

Are you saying it's a coincidence that of the 21 countries that criminalize apostasy, all 21 are Muslim-majority countries? That's quite a coincidence.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Nessie wrote: "In the Maldives you can lose your citizenship if you deconvert from Islam. Personally, I think it's wacky, but what do I know?"

That is a problem with the political situation in Maldives but you prefer to see it as a problem with Islam - that's wacky.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

"That is a problem with the political situation in Maldives...."

Do your research, man! There is a whole range of Muslim countries worldwide that have criminally punishments for people who want to convert.

Wiki; "In 2011, 20 countries across the globe prohibited its citizens from apostasy; in these countries, it is a criminal offense to abandon one's faith to become atheist, or convert to another religion.[7][8] All 20 of these countries were majority Islamic nations, of which 11 were in the Middle East. No country in the Americas or Europe has any law forbidding apostasy and restricting the freedom to convert to any religion. Furthermore, across the globe, no country with Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, agnostic or atheist majority had any criminal or civil laws forbidding or encouraging apostasy, or had laws restricting an individual's right to convert from one religion to another."

7 ( +10 / -3 )

@JeffLee Be careful. Pointing out clear facts can lead to the charge of being 'anti-Islamic'. I was shouted down by a Muslim for calling the idea of flying horses ridiculous.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

FarmboyAUG. 12, 2014 - 08:20AM JST If that is the depth of your civilization, then you have no civilization, and you are no better than those you are fighting. Becoming like "the bad guys" only works for World Wrestling Federation events.... well, okay, it sometimes works in junior high school, too.

The depth of someone's civilization is measured by who one deals with. If a nation deals with civilized people that respect the civil liberties of others then that nation should treat them like civilized human beings. But, if you deal with animals that behead women, children and men just because they don't believe the way that they do, well dear lad you must treat those people like animals.

The moment you based your argument on the fantasy of tv wrestling is the moment you lost all credibility. Try harder and get out more, the world is a big bad place with big bad people that will cut off your head just because you don't believe what they do.

Read this story and tell us if you think that these people should be treated like civilized humans?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2721230/Thats-boy-Australian-jihadists-seven-year-old-son-poses-decapitated-head-Syrian-solider.html

The world is filled with monsters and it takes monsters to keep you and your family safe in your warm beds.

scipantheistAUG. 12, 2014 - 11:02AM JST @JoeBigs How does one bring a bigger tank to fight islamic extremists? These are people that will behead and crucify people for not being muslim and are prepared to sign their whole family up for suicide bombing. You think you can scare them into submission? Maybe the liberals you hate have a better path: let them stew in their hatred safely ignored.

That is real easy, in the world of tanks the ISIS T55 is not that big (T55s are the tanks that are reportedly in possession of) it weighs around 37 tons and is considered a outdated weak tank, while tanks like the M1 are bigger and much better, if you want to talk tanks we can talk tanks.

Liberals just don' get, they think they can deal with these things as people. These things aren't human being, they are animals.

The world is a cruel place filled with cruel people that will do cruel things to others. If you hand a thug a flower, he will take your flower and everything else. Only thing an animal understands is violence and that is exactly what these extremist are, animals.

As for the Liberals, how has their policies worked so far? Lydia, Egypt, yes Iraq, I ran (pun), Syria etc etc. Liberal policies have led the world to this point and at this point the animals are winning. Time for an animal to take the leadership and bring those animals to their knees.

The biggest Liberal organization of them all is the U.N., it is a corrupt inept giant toothless shark. It claims to be there to help the world, but at every turn looks the other way as the innocent are slaughtered. If you want examples there are tons.

Liberalism is only good when it comes to helping the poor. Other than that Liberalism is useless. Liberalism should stay out of world affairs and stay in neighborhoods.

Liberalism needs to take a seat and let true leadership bring the world back from the brink of destruction.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

JeffLee wrote: "Do your research, man!" in response to ||That is a problem with the political situation in Maldives||

Mohamed Nasheed became the first democratically-elected president of the Maldives in 2008 after defeating Maumoon Abdul Gayoom, who had been in power for over 30 years. Nasheed was later forced from office under controversial circumstances in 2012. President Gayoom, was long accused of being a dictator by political opponents and international rights groups. The law regarding loss of citizenship for rejecting Islamic belief was instituted by Gayoom's government in a desperate attempt to counter political risks represented by growing numbers of non-Muslim Indian citizens/voters in Maldives. This ploy to strip such immigrants of their citizenship and thus their right to vote on the basis of (rejecting Islam) was ultimately ineffective and Nasheed won elections held in 2008 (receiving broad support from non-Muslim voters). This was a political matter. Apostasy laws existing elsewhere are not relevant.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

JoeBigs,

Your argument is that because there are sick and twisted people in the world, we should all become sick and twisted. Also, in your world, if one isn't sick and twisted, one is a Liberal, which you define as a clueless, but well-meaning and charitable person.

I think Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and Atheism would be in agreement in rejecting your first idea, and Conservatives would be annoyed at your shallow depiction of their own position in your second.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Point being, it's not just Islamic extremists that are the problem, but extremists in general. It's a two-way street.

SmithinJapan -- baloney. I am not an "extremist" in any way, but consider what ISIS is doing to persecute anyone practicing a religion other than their brand of Islam indicative of the problem. And Pope Francis does too, and I would hardly call him an extremist.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

That is a problem with the political situation in Maldives but you prefer to see it as a problem with Islam - that's wacky.

This was a political matter. Apostasy laws existing elsewhere are not relevant.

You still haven't answered why only Muslim countries have laws against apostasy. The usual dodge is to blame colonialism, but in that case we'd see anti-apostasy laws in Vietnam, India, all of South America, and scores of other post-colonial countries. But we don't. We only see them in Muslim countries. How is this NOT relevant to the question of whether peaceful coexistence with Islam (and within Islam) is possible?

Do you or don't you think it's wacky to criminalize leaving one's religion?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

FarmboyAug. 13, 2014 - 06:47AM JST JoeBigs, Your argument is that because there are sick and twisted people in the world, we should all become sick and twisted. Also, in your world, if one isn't sick and twisted, one is a Liberal, which you define as a clueless, but well-meaning and charitable person.

Did you actually look at the link I provided, or did you avoid?

Next, Liberals aren't the monsters I have described, Liberals are the people who have allowed those monsters to thrive and grow.

Again, I will ask you, how has their policies worked so far? Lydia, Egypt, yes Iraq, I ran (pun), Syria etc etc. Liberal policies have led the world to this point and at this point the animals are winning.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2721230/Thats-boy-Australian-jihadists-seven-year-old-son-poses-decapitated-head-Syrian-solider.html

Don't be shy, look at the link and look at the monsters you are willing to help and defend.

JoeBigsAug. 12, 2014 - 10:48PM JST I think Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and Atheism would be in agreement in rejecting your first idea, and Conservatives would be annoyed at your shallow depiction of their own position in your second.

First off, I am an Atheist and I understand how perverse religions can become when extremism take hold of any religion or belief.

Next, anyone who is sickened by the acts of these monsters would agree with me, you can't deal kindly with monsters.

Ask the victims of these kinds of extremists how they feel?

Next, where is the U.N., why isn't the U.N. there helping those people?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2720309/AmessagefromISIStoUS-Islamist-militants-tweet-gruesome-images-dead-American-soldiers-vow-blow-embassies-Obama-launches-airstrikes.html

http://www.catholic.org/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=56481

Look at what these monsters are doing and then tell me if you think we should help them?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Nessie wrote: "How is this NOT relevant to the question of whether peaceful coexistence with Islam (and within Islam) is possible?"

Because Islam is a religion and the apostasy laws you refer to in Muslim dominant nations are non-secular rules imposed on society by governments. Rather than rights for (freedom of religion) I have always supported rights for (freedom from religion), since all monotheistic religions are essentially cults of war and I am a pacifest (and an athiest).

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Multraman, well said in your message to your Muslim brethren. I would address all of humanity to do the same.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

For an honest and humorous look at British Multiculturalism, watch Four Lions.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

There are many Western Expats working and living in Islamic nations. In Dubai, western couple have been jailed for kissing and hugging in the public place. Muslims are conservative, refrained and strict. Westerners love freedom, joy and party. Western nations tolerate the Muslims. Dubai and middle east nations do not tolerate infidels.

If lion and tiger coexist peacefully in the same cage, so do Islam and Western world.

US and Saudi Arabia are very close friends. In US, it is not the big deal for woman committing the adultery. In Saudi, she will be stoned to be dead. Muslim man can have up to four wives. Muslim woman can not have more than one man. Some have to cover the face except showing to their husband. There are medieval ideology and touch sharia law in the middle east. Stealing a penny can be punished with chopping off the hand. Many Muslim family want to circumcise the girl or boy during their tender age. Westerners are uncomfortable about it. Tolerance is the most important factor for two opposite societies coexist peacefully.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Food for thought:

The United States and Japan fail consistently to understand others because of isolation or insularity, both geographical and mental.

R. D. Lewis, When Cultures Collide: Leading across cultures

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Convoluted and irrational question with a demonstrably false xenophobic premise. So sad to see so many voted no. Seems the terrorists on both sides are winning the war to make everybody stupid.

Islam exists in the United States just fine with fewer incidents than pure Black and White racial tensions. Places where there are problems its more about foreigners and their culture than about their religion. They have similar problems with Coptic Christians and also look funny at Orthodox Jews.

Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism you say? Happens a lot more in the M.E. than it does in the west. And the last time a Middle Eastern country invaded a Western nation was probably around the time of the Ottomans. How do you compare some terrorism here in there to one nation fully invading another? No sense of proportion.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The muslims will not allow tolerance and co existence, their duty is to convert the non believers,

Isis supporters in UK now trying to make suburbs muslim and run with sharia law, how is that co existence?

There are 1,000s of sleepers in the west lets hope they don't wake and start trying to perform their duty.

The problem doesn't lie with the west but with the intolerance of the islamists

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Duck of WellingtonAug. 13, 2014 - 09:40PM JST Convoluted and irrational question with a demonstrably false xenophobic premise. So sad to see so many voted no. Seems the terrorists on both sides are winning the war to make everybody stupid.

Wait, are you saying that all those Islamic extremist aren't doing bad things to people who don't follow their beliefs?

Before I ask my next question, are you talking about all the radicalized Western converts or a Western funded terror organization? Please point out those Western terrorist, I know of a bunch of groups, but didn't know they were involved in Syria and Iraq.

Against if you could point them out I would love to read. Here are some names AoG, KKK (not as bad as they used to be, but still sucks), BLA, ETA, Holy Land Foundation, Red Brigades, Shinning Path, TARM?

Please point them out.

Duck of WellingtonAug. 13, 2014 - 09:40PM JST Islam exists in the United States just fine with fewer incidents than pure Black and White racial tensions. Places where there are problems its more about foreigners and their culture than about their religion. They have similar problems with Coptic Christians and also look funny at Orthodox Jews.

True, Islam works in the West, but in the East it has a little problem.

Duck of WellingtonAug. 13, 2014 - 09:40PM JST Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism you say? Happens a lot more in the M.E. than it does in the west. And the last time a Middle Eastern country invaded a Western nation was probably around the time of the Ottomans. How do you compare some terrorism here in there to one nation fully invading another? No sense of proportion.

Turkey's invasion of Cyprus 1974 was actually one of the last that I remember.

Are you trying to defend what ISIS is doing in the East because they are doing it to Muslims and folks that live in that region?

Yes or No questions are always the most difficult to answer for some folks, I hope this one won't be for you.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wiki; "In 2011, 20 countries across the globe prohibited its citizens from apostasy; in these countries, it is a criminal offense to abandon one's faith to become atheist, or convert to another religion.[7][8] All 20 of these countries were majority Islamic nations, of which 11 were in the Middle East. No country in the Americas or Europe has any law forbidding apostasy and restricting the freedom to convert to any religion. Furthermore, across the globe, no country with Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, agnostic or atheist majority had any criminal or civil laws forbidding or encouraging apostasy, or had laws restricting an individual's right to convert from one religion to another."

That's what I've always wondered about. What is it with Islam that metes out punishment or penalties for those who want out of their religion/cult? All the other religions don't have that and respects an individual's freewill. It looks like Mohammed knew himself that that's the only way to keep his members, for if apostasy weren't prohibited all those Muslims would have left Islam a long time ago. It just speaks volume about the confidence Mohammed about his "religion."

No it isn't. The Muslim world is backward, violent and intolerant, from Africa to the Middle East to Asia. There isn't a single hi-tech, progressive liberal-thinking Muslim-majority country on the planet. None of the BRICs - or any country with a future -- is Muslim majority. Or do you think that's just a coincidence?

Exactly. Another problem also is when Muslims migrate in large numbers and bring their belief systems along to their destination country. We can already see the problems they've been causing in the UK, France, Sweden, Philippines, Thailand, and many other countries around the globe. In its core, Islam is simply backward, violent and intolerant, especially to non-Muslims. It is simply a menace to the world we live in.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I'm trying to say that if Muslims are acting good in Europe, don't you try ask your self what make them facing troubles in the other community?

Muslims are not "acting good" in Europe. And the answer to the poll question is no. Islam cannot co-exist with the Western world until it waters itself down to something like the current version of "Christianity" we find in the US etc. That means women imams and gay Islam marriages. Anybody see that happening any time soon?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?

with their arrogance and strange act

Muslims are not "acting good" in Europe. And the answer to the poll question is no. Islam cannot co-exist with the Western world until it waters itself down to something like the current version of "Christianity" we find in the US etc. That means women imams and gay Islam marriages. Anybody see that happening any time soon?

Gay marriage muslim to make the muslim resistance more weaker

will happen only when the pigs fly you can exerise your arrogance in this country but the arab won't tolerate your crazy belief

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

The muslims who run the islamist states are out of control, they do not want to co exist at all, they only want to live with their kind, those who adhere to the strict teachings of the book called the Koran,

Anyone who thinks the muslims can or even want to live happily with us and our western ways is totally deluded,

They do not like your way of life or even some of your food, they do not want you to get an education and they want you to live as if it was still in the dim dark ages, how does that work with todays western life and values, quite simply it doesn't !

These people also do not want to change their ways with science or education nor do they listen to the sound of a gun, they only see the figure of allah and want to listen to the book he is described in.

You cannot co exist with people like this, it does not happen unless some one gives ground, and they do not want to negotiate fairness and reality, they want to inflict their backward beliefs and ways upon all of us.

Maybe you can meet the ones here or some in the US who will not try to impose their belief on you, that is only because they are out numbered, if they were ruled by threat of the sword as they are in their homeland they would have you convert.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Because Islam is a religion and the apostasy laws you refer to in Muslim dominant nations are non-secular rules imposed on society by governments.

You still need to explain why it's only Muslim-majority countries that have these rules. You also need to explain the large support for these rules among large majorities in Muslim countries, and not just the government, as I documented when I posted the Pew survey results. (Did you not see the results, or are you choosing to ignore them?) And you need to explain why Muslim jurisprudence has called for death for apostates for centuries.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

genjuro:

" That's what I've always wondered about. What is it with Islam that metes out punishment or penalties for those who want out of their religion/cult? All the other religions don't have that and respects an individual's freewill. It looks like Mohammed knew himself that that's the only way to keep his members, for if apostasy weren't prohibited all those Muslims would have left Islam a long time ago. It just speaks volume about the confidence Mohammed about his "religion." "

I think fundamentally, the problem is that islam was created by a ruler, so it was designed as a system to consolidate power. There is no concept in islam of "giving to Cesar what is Cesars".... in islam, the religious ruler (the Caliph) IS Cesar. That is what the ISIS Caliphate is such a magnet for radical islamists around the world.

There are of course moderate muslims who want to change that; but they always lose the religious debate. The fundamentalists can always argue that they have the Koran and the Haddiths on their side.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Not as long as this is a question....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Gelendestrasse:

" You're going to need an Islamic reformation akin to what the catholic church went through 500 years ago. "

Actually, there is an islamic concept for that: "Ijitihad" -- open inquiry. And there were some early Caliphs that encouraged open debate. But those days are gone. Today, the official position of both Sunni and Shiite Clerics is that "the doors of Ijitihad" are closed. All that can be debated has been, and both Sunni and Shia islam are stuck with the doctrine that the the Koran is the literal word of god and Mohammed is the perfect man, whose life is to be emulated (including all the details that he practised like child marriage, wife beating, polygamy, and killing of political opponents.

That is a completely different mindset from the modern Western one. And unless that changes (i.e. the doors of ijitihad are opened again), I do not see how the two systems can co-exist. One has to give, and currently the one that is giving in is the West and modernity.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I would of believed it could 10 years ago. But it's a definite No.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Radical Islam has to be destroyed. ISIL is definitely a threat to the civilized world.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

There is no concept in islam of "giving to Cesar what is Cesars".... in islam, the religious ruler (the Caliph) IS Cesar.

This is an important point, WilliB. Jesus and Buddha had no political power. They gathered no armies. It's true that it didn't take long for Christianity and Buddhism to be corrupted to serve the political elites, but with Islam, there was not even that short grace period. It has always been a political and a religious movement.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Maybe the West should stop allowing Muslims to immigrate to the West. Ban, at least, people from hotspot areas like Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. We can't allow the left-wing bs of "every belief system is equal" to allow thousands more of our own people to die.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

No.

Next question.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Yes, I've known lots of Muslims, none aggressive at the time. Is there really peace anywhere, except Antarctica? In North America, we have the drug wars and class wars.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Islamic doctrine will forever be constantly at odds with the modern civilized world ideology (not just the "western" world). Islam would have to go against many of its teachings in regards to modern basic human rights. as chartered by the UN. Islam encourages coercion and subjugation of beliefs that are not it instead of freedom of religious (or non-religious) choice. Islam has no respect for women's rights, and most importantly, there is no secularism allowed at all in Islam. Name on single Islamic governed country that does not have specialized laws that create inequality between muslim and non-muslim citizens. Mohammed set the rules the way they are now, and he was not a man of peace like Jesus and Buddha.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

No and Never.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@honestdictator

Exactly! Well said.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@honestdictator If you dont know let me tell you ISLAM itself meanspeace. Dont look at present followers. Look at teachings of ISLAM (try to be neutral) And Islam do have rights for Women. In fact we respect women a lot. For us paradise(heaven) lies beneath the foot of mother(women). Now for Mohammad (PBUH), Michael H. Hart (Non Muslim), in his book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in HistoryThe name of Mohammad(PBUH) is on First. Although he was a christian he put JESUS(PBUH) name on third. Now coming to Inequality Can I(being an international student) ask for same fees as of native students ? No, never . And every country n every religion has their own specialize law.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

horizon:

" Because Islam is a religion and the apostasy laws you refer to in Muslim dominant nations are non-secular rules imposed on society by governments. "

Islam is a POLITICAL religion, and the apostesy laws (and similar nefarious laws) introduced in Muslim dominant nations were demanded by islamic parties, and based on islamic laws.

That is the problem with so much debate about this in the West -- by labelling islam a "religion", we are using our modern, none-political concept of "religion". But islam is different. Other modern religions like Christianity or Buddhism do not actually want to replace our laws. But islam wants exactly that. As long as islamic leaders demand the replacement of secular laws with islamic Shariah laws, there can be no co-existence. Only surrender. And alas, currently, the West is surrending, slowly, one compromise at a time.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Judging from recent news reports, a better question would be "Can Sunni and Shia Co-Exist Peacefully/"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Michael H. Hart (Non Muslim), in his book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in HistoryThe name of Mohammad(PBUH) is on First

So? You're confusing influence with positive influence. The list includes Cortez, too, hardly illuminated company.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I forget what the percentage is, but it roughly translates into around 300,000,000 "extremist" Muslims in the world today. That is a big problem for everyone in the civilised Free World. ISIS must be quashed. If it is not, their next goal is the overthrow of Western. Democracies and their replacement with Middle Ages Sharia Laws. The sad part is that many Western Leaders have already sold out to Sharia laws. There is creeping Islamification of European countries at the moment, with the result that London is now known in the UK as 'Londonistan." It is fast approaching a situation in the UK, France, Holland and Sweden where the ugly head of Islamic extremism is raising its head. The future looks bad, because it is a simple fact that once the Muslim percentage of the population reaches a certain point, they start to demand Sharia Laws, which are the antithesis of Western civilisation. Islam and Western Democracy can never co-exist after a certain point is reached. The UK is fast approaching the point of no return, and the point where native British people will rise up in revolt.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Junaid Raza, I've heard that "peace" shpiel before. And for centuries, Islam's actions have spoken much louder than your words. My uncle is muslim and it was him that gave me the Qur'an pre-2001 to show the "wonderful" ways of Islam. I've read it, and I've read other versions of the exact same stuff. Islam in no way promotes peace to others unless they're muslim (oh wait, even then the Amadiyaa are considered heretics to be killed on sight...). Either non-muslims are subject to paying unnecessary taxes to an Islamic governed society, having any property owned taken away from "devout" muslims, and outright murdered. Apostates of Islam also suffer the exact same thing, and there are many organizations of those that left Islam that are trying to support each other and protect each other from persecution,intimidation of others in a "devout" muslim community.

You can believe whatever you want, in my country that is actually a right to follow your beliefs (as long as it does not violate another person's civil and human rights). But I'm calling Islam for what it is and who it was created by. Either Islam needs to overhaul and seriously reform itself to actually become truly peaceful (which will require for a lot of Mohammeds teachings and those that wrote the hadiths to completely wiped out, and no more death threats to those muslims calling for reform), or it will will continue to clash with the rest of the worlds beliefs and civilized ideologies until intelligent societies have had enough.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Can Islam and the Western world coexist peacefully?

I do not think, the headline is correct, how can you consider a few unknown terrorists groups" who carry the label of Islam" or a few so called rulers " the Tyrants, Dictators and cronies" Islam, they are neither Islam nor they represent Muslims. who created these groups, who give them weapons, who are backing these so called leaders of the Islamic countries, the Dictators, the Tyrants and the cronies. who are sailing them weapons.

Islam, or the one billion Muslim were never allowed to choose their leaders and they are still not allowed to do so. Islam and the rest of the world are coexisting for centuries, Islam is not a new religion.

As for as fundamentalists and extremists are concerned, they are every where in each society, but it does not mean that they represent the whole society or the whole nations.

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@Nessie Sire, I,for obvious reasons, will take that influence as +ve influence.

@HonestDictaor, I really appreciate if you have read Quran and Hadith(authentic). But you might have mistaken in understanding the meanings of verses.Like if I say go with the flowing river and you jumped into the water on my order but my actual meaning was totally different ! And I do agree with you that some (people calling themselves to be) Muslim have depicted very bad image of Islam but trust me its not the way it is being depicted. Actually ISLAM doesnt need to reform. Muslim needs to present themselves as good. And as far as laws are concerned in most of the cases they are made by Muslim Government (not Islamic laws). I am also paying unnecessary taxes here abroad as international students. Am I eligible to say the law of this (or any govt. taking extra taxes from international students) govt. is not good? killing a single (innocent) human is as though you have killed the whole humanity and saving a single human is as though you have saved the whole humanity. Its a verse of Quran since you have read it you might know this verse. I got so many non muslim friends Hindu, buddhist, christian n some atheist. I(muslim and follower of Muhammads teaching) havent killed any of them neither i forced them to accept ISLAM neither here nor in my native land. In the end, my purpose is to clear misconceptions and blames against ISLAM not Muslims. They are responsible for their deeds. You cannot blame Islam for deeds muslim. I hope you will clear your misconceptions about ISLAM

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Ali Khan:

" I do not think, the headline is correct, how can you consider a few unknown terrorists groups" who carry the label of Islam" or a few so called rulers "

Those "few unknown terrorist groups" now have an entire country, which they have declared a Caliphate, and are in the process of committing genocide against all Christians and Yazidis there. And that is just ISIS. Surely I don´t need to list all the other brutalities of Shariah run countries in the world, from Saudi Arabia to Yemen, Somalia, or Northern Nigeria? We are certainly not talking about only a "few unknown terrorist groups" here any more.

Junai Raza:

" killing a single (innocent) human is as though you have killed the whole humanity "

Conveniently, you omitted the first part of this sura, which starts with: "Oh children of Israel". Read in context, it turns out that this sura is a warning to Jews to stop resisting muslim attacks, or else. But every time we hear this sura quoted from islamic apoligists, we only get a partial version? I wonder why is that. Err... no, I don´t.

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New Pew survey about Islam's problem with secularism.

More than half of the countries with religion-related restrictions on their heads of state (17) maintain that the office must be held by a Muslim. In Jordan, for example, the heir to the throne must be a Muslim child of Muslim parents. In Tunisia, any Muslim male or female voter born in the country may qualify as a candidate for president. Malaysia, Pakistan and Mauritania also restrict their heads of state to Muslim citizens.

Two countries, Lebanon and Andorra, require their heads of state to have a Christian affiliation. Lebanon also has a religious requirement of its prime minister, who must be a Sunni Muslim.

Two other countries require the heads of their monarchies be Buddhist: Bhutan and Thailand. And one country, Indonesia, requires the official state belief in Pancasila to be upheld by its head of state. Indonesia is a Muslim-majority country; Pancasila is a summation of “common cultural elements” of Indonesia, including belief in God.

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@Willib It is in context. as far as children are concerned they are innocent. All children if they die before adolescence they will go to jannah(paradise) whether they are jews or muslims. So the sura is in context(not like you have said). Now a days ISLAM is being shown (portrayed) like its a religion of terrorism. But terrorism is not monopoly of Islam. You consider terrorist groups to be Islamic ? Well we muslims have also suffered alot. Even Muslims are killed by saying that you are not muslim and bla bla. So , how can i consider a person, who is killing muslims as well, to be a muslim? And I dont know why people only talk about terrorist who claim to be muslim? Why not about London bombing ? The biggest terrorist attack in the history of England. It was not done by MUSLIMS. why not about Burma ? where 2000 muslims were burnt alive (by buddhist)? Why not about mass destruction bomb found in IRAQ by Americans? So, every country and religion have extremist(or terrorist) but they are not representing the true face of their religion for sure. In the end, my purpose is to clear misconceptions about ISLAM. and i would like to say here I am a MUSLIM and I am not a TERRORIST neither do I support them.

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Ive met moderate muslims from MY and Indonesia but Id say its hard for this relegion and Western norms to coexisit, unless your talking about radical fundamental Christianity; in that case they might even respect each other. The everyday "decadant" West does not jive well with most Muslims. Coexistance seems to work in MY and SG, however, and I think it would work in Japan.

I think the Muslims conservatives and many Japanese have allot in common. The Japanese practice of tatemae is similar to the covering of ones face in Muslim beliefs as well as the extreme forms of exclusion we can find in Japan. If you look at the bonzai or kamikaze charges, its simiilar to any extremist position you can find in other relegions.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The question implies there is some sort of problem with the western world and any conflict is caused by the west and if the west would only Do or not Do, then the Muslim world would peacefully go about there business of slavery, oppression and violence but keep it in their own country. The fact is the Muslim culture is the problem. In fact had the Muslim would not attempted invasion, conquest and genocide for the last 100 years and if the Muslim world stopped actions like child rape and slavery or attrocities like whipping 14 yr old rape victims to death for illegal sex and may not run around capturing school girls or raping women to "breed" out of existence some other culture, then there would be no problem.

The west has given up imperial conquest. The colonial empires long gone and the idea of the Christian west invading and killing in the name of God a long gone mentality. Nearly every culture on earth today has given up conquest as an action, given up slavery, and is at or heading too some level of decency for all. The only culture of significance left which can't seem to evolve past holy books justifying rape, enslavement and conquest is the Muslim culture. All Islam needs to Do is stop using religion as justification to commit attrocities and as justification to oppress. The west is already evololved it's culture to this point. There is nothing wrong with Islamic people. They like everyone else just want to love free. Like anywhere the problem lies within their political class of leaders, warlords and holy men with their followers. A common world wide problem. But the difference is the political class is not killing people for wearing the wrong clothes or wanting to be free. The Islamic political class is using murder and committing attrocities to control.

There is no problem with the west. We are not the ones murdering and enslaving using a religion as an excuse to keep power.

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Good Muslim is a dead Muslim ****

What a ridiculous and racist statement.

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(I dont know why my previous comment was deleted but this time let me make it general overview about west, last one was a bit specific)As I was referring to Todd Topolski さん West do have problems. I hope you are familiar with respectable personalities like Hitler and Uncle Joe(Joseph stalin) who killed 6 million and 20 million people respectively. And of course Benito Mussolini who killed 4 million people and Maximilian Robespierre (during french revolution) tortured 2 million people to death. Stunt gang, ETA, IRA(bombed BBC), Lords salvation army etc. all belongs to west.The King David hotel bombing etc. bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are all wests stuff which do not have any Muslim associated with them. WWII wests gift to the entire humanity. Still people in Hiroshima are born with abnormalities, Making of nuclear bombs, biological weapons and hydrogen bomb etc. are all made by non Muslims.yeah! one thing you can do is to blame Muslims for making (imaginary) Mass destruction weapon found in IRAQ by Americans. Its just that international media only highlights Muslim terrorists. There are plenty of terrorist organizations(non Muslim) in west as well. There are plenty of problems in west(which are not created by Muslim terrorists). And one more thing Terrorists have no religion since they(the one everybody is talking about) are labelled as Muslim terrorists so i referred to them as muslim terrorists just to give you some overview And things which you have discuss like killings for wearing wrong clothes etc. is not Allowed in Islam at all. I condemn such sort of killings. In the end (again), my purpose is to clear misconceptions about Islam. I hope and pray that everybody here understand that Islam is not the problem.

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Junaid Raza:

" And one more thing Terrorists have no religion since they(the one everybody is talking about) are labelled as Muslim terrorists "

That is simply evading the issue. Terrorists who clearly state that they are acting on islamic commands and quoting Koran verses are not "labelled" as muslim terrorists, they are so by definition. Also note that practically all radical islamic organizations are headed by muslim clerics, who obviously have studied their religion. Case in point, Abu Bakr Al Bagdadi, the self-declared Caliph and leader of ISIS, has a Phd in islamic theology. So don´t you think he he knows a thing or two about islam?

It is just to simply to derail any discussion by claiming that radical muslim leaders are not muslim.

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@WilliB sir, with all due respect the word terrorist is very confusing word. Benjamin Franklin was also labelled as Terrorist by British Govt. If you fight for your land you are freedom fighter (for your supporter) and terrorist for ruler at the same time. And you know George W. Bush(the former president of USA) is said to be the biggest terrorist by Hugo Chavez (the president of VENEZUELA) (An M.P of UK) George Galloway said the same thing for George W. Bush.Harry Balafonte also said the same thing for George W. Bush. Nobel prize winner Betty Williams said she would love to kill George W. Bush. Now in your opinion Is USA a land of terrorists? Since the head of USA was a terrorist? No you can not blame the whole nation for a single person Now coming to your Case Ph.D is a big deal ? I really dont know much about him but for the sake of argument let us suppose you are right he is Ph.D n he knows much about ISLAM. Where on the earth Islam says to destroy mosques? kill your own Muslim brothers? so this supposition lead us to contradiction here. Why dont you give example of Dr Zakir Naik ( he is the islamic personality of the year 2014) and he is not Ph.D. Like the way he preaches the message of Islam etc. (BIBLE)In Gospel Of Luke Jesus Christ (PBUH) said: take the sword and fight. does this mean jesus (PBUH)was a terrorist? no not at all you have to check and understand the context and then imply it on practical life. I respect JESUS (PBUH) as a prophet of allah bible says: An eye for an eye. Does this means Bible is a book of terrorism? Again no. *PBUH = Peace Be Upon Him you cannot say ISLAM is the problem for his(you know whom i am referring to ) actions. If you claim Islam to be the religion of terrorism then you have to say Germany, Russia, USA etc the land of terrorists. To sum up, it is indeed a debatable topic which needs further analysis but it would be quite safe to conclude that Islam is not the problem. And as far as that guy is concerned how can I consider him Muslim when he has destroyed mosques and killed my Muslim brothers? Thank You

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Junaid Raza:

" with all due respect the word terrorist is very confusing word. "

So now you are claiming there is no terrorism, because you can´t define the word? Come one. Clearly we agree that people who murder the entire male population of towns and take women as sex slaves, they are terrorists. Is that too complicated? And when they do so while clearly identifiying themselves as muslim and quoting islamic commands, then we are talking about muslim terrorists.

" he is Ph.D n he knows much about ISLAM. "

Well, obviously studied it, so he knows something about it. And Abu Bakr al Bagdadi is not an exception --- practically leaders of islamic terror organizations are islamic clerics. Why is that? Obviously, they are not acting out of ignorance of islam.

" how can I consider him Muslim when he has destroyed mosques and killed my Muslim brothers? "

Which muslim brothers? If you are muslim, then you know very well that Sunnis consider Shias as heretics, and both Sunni and Shina consider Ahmediyyas as heretics. They have been killing each other for centuries (well, not the Ahmediyya; they have renounced violent jihad, so they have only been on the receiving end of Sunni and Shia violence). Anyway, I could go on. Jihadis kill other muslims all the time, there is nothing new there.

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They are terrorist you can say them Muslim terrorist if you wish. To me they are a bunch of ignorant people. why is that guy so highlighted? because hes violent spicy news for media? And true scholars like Dr. Zakir naik majority of people even dont know about him? why is not he given the support of international media? Because he is Islamic scholar which condemns all these terrorist activities? If Menachem Begins(the no. 1 terrorist labelled by British Govt.) can be awarded noble prize forPeace` why cant he be a Ph.D scholar? And I gave you examples of terrorist lands USA Germany Russia etc.? they all are non muslim lands.

Well I know more then sunni and shia. even sunni and shia have further groups inside them (its an open secret). I can also go on with non muslim terrorists. Trust me if you tell that Ph.D guy(by whom you look alot inspired ) about the mass killing by Hitler and uncle joe etc. he will surely feel ashamed of himself. JIhad the most unlucky word in the history of all languages. Some time i feel pity about this word. It actually means to struggle to get the meaning it means struggle for betterment. According to QURAN(Koran) non muslims and animals(honey bee mentioned in the book) also do JIHAD. The five basic pillars of islam are as; Oneness of ALLAH, Prayers(five time a day),Fasting,Zakaat(its a sort of yearly taxes on muslims) and Hajj(to pay a visit to mecca khana kaba). where is the terrorism?

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This page is the prime example, now you can see how is bullying, which side statements show extremism and fundamentalism. There are racial, unethical and immoral statements against the Muslims, even the Mediator do not bother to delete such statements.

The question/headline from the news paper is bias and offensive, it tents to create hate and differences between the two nations, they deliberately dragging the common man in to the middle.

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Ali Khan:

" There are racial, unethical and immoral statements "

I have not seen any racist statements. If you have, can you identify them?

Immoral? Well, I consider support for Shariah Law as immoral. Of course it depends on your definition of "morality".

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Wow textbook denial spin of Islamic doctrine. Its always "misunderstood", "taken out of 'context'", or "hasen't been seen for its 'true' meaning". Those cards have been played too many times and too often nobody with a real brain and experience in life keeps falling for the exact same lies especially since they've all be heard before.

All muslim apostates have seen this before and have easily rebuffed every excuse used to justify why Islam does what it does. Simple fact, Islam is twisted at its core because its founder was twisted. Nothing I've seen, read and learned is going to convince me otherwise so save your breath. I do believe that there are good people who follow Islam and aren't evil, but I also believe the heart of Islamic teaching is evil. Its up to the person who follows it as to what they choose to follow or not.

Faithfreedom org (read the forums) is run by apostates who literally escaped prosecution , CEMB is run by apostates in the UK, EXMNA is run by apostates in the US and Canada, former muslims united org, and many many more. I've never seen so many sites dedicated to ex-muslim support groups. I have never seen as many support groups for ex-Christians, ex-Hindu, ex-buddists because many of them do not have to worry about such severe persecution for leaving their religious beliefs behind.

Read some of the letters, comments, and opinions written by ex-muslima and others of them who still pretend to follow Islam because if they admit they no longer believe in Islam they'll be harassed, persecuted, or executed Islamic governed countries and large Islamic communities.

I know many of the muslim commenters on this site want to try and stamp out any criticism or opinion running counter to their beliefs in Islam because of the simple fact they cannot logically question their beliefs without questioning the "purity" and "truth" of Islam. If Islam is questioned they are taught to believe that Satan is behind them asking questions... instead of comprehending the fact that blind faith in Islam has lead to their societies being where it is today with Islamist radicals popping up all around the globe outside of the middle eastern region.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Making of nuclear bombs, biological weapons and hydrogen bomb etc. are all made by non Muslims.yeah!

That would mean Pakistan has no nuclear weapons, which is false.

one thing you can do is to blame Muslims for making (imaginary) Mass destruction weapon found in IRAQ by Americans.

That would mean Muslims did NOT gas Kurds, which is false.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Saudi Arabia have at least two atomic bombs in return for financing the Pakistani program? Iran are not far away from having atomic weapons.

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Junaid Raza:

" And true scholars like Dr. Zakir naik majority of people even dont know about him? "

That would be the same Dr. Zakir Naik who demands that non-muslims are denied the right to practise their faith in islamic countries? While he demands that muslims are granted this right in non-muslim countries. The same Dr. Zakir Naik who supports the destruction of non-islamic structures in islamic countries (like the Bahmiyan Buddhas)? The same Dr. Zakir Naik who supports the death penalty for those who leave islam? The same Dr. Zakir Naik whosaid the more "revealing Western dress" makes women more susceptible to rape? The same Dr. Zakir Naik who supports the death penalty for homosexuals, as per Shariah law? I could go on.

If this is your best example of a "moderate" islamic leader, I think you demonstrated why many of us are saying that current islamic teaching is fundamentally incompatible with modern, Western thought.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Attempts to characterize Islam as an especially "bad religion" are always couched in arguments meant to justify violence and coercion against the Moslem dominant societies. Modern Islam has become increasingly paranoid of all forms of western meddling and that paranoia is what sparked the ongoing reversion towards radical (false and militaristic) fundamentalism (most intensely since the Islamic Revolution in Iran in 1978). Turning the course back towards greater modernism and secularism in Moslem societies will not be achieved by outsiders (westerners and particularly Israelis) reforming (or crushing) Islam and the Islamists. That approach, which is so stridently championed by Natan Sharansky (Soviet trained propagandist and cheerleader for the second U.S. invasion of Iraq initiated by Bush, Jr.) is both contemptible and futile. What is necessary is a detente which can only surface following a sustained period of military and political disengagement. That means calling off economic sanctions on trade and investment, ending blockades stopping goods and people from crossing their own borders, and confining proactive wars on terror to intelligence gathering (ceasing all state support for policies of special rendition, targeted assassination and regime change). It will also require bringing arms trade and arms finance to a full stop in the greater Middle East (even for so called national defense or security purposes). Continuously replenishing and modernizing armaments just encourages more conflicts down the road, not greater peace. Not a single western political analyst or published scholar attributed the 1978 revolution in Iran to religious causes at that time. All explanations for why revolutionary political changes occurred traced the origins directly to extensive western intervention in Iranian society and its nascent oil based economy.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

horizon:

" Attempts to characterize Islam as an especially "bad religion" are always couched in arguments meant to justify violence and coercion against the Moslem dominant societies. "

Where do you get that from? You are pulling that right out of thin air. Nobody here has demanded violence or coercian against any society. However, many people are against the violence and coercian that islamic law represents. You can see islamic law where it is practised --- do you really want to impose that on your society? But that is exactly what islamic leaders (including the aforementioned Dr. Zakir Naik) want.

There are no clear borders; for this, this is not a question of some countries vs other countries. It is a question if you want to submit under a radical and backward ideology, or if you want to maintain achievements of modernity, such as freedom of speech, equality under the law, basic human rights, etc. Shariah has none of that.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@WilliB I think you googled him like Dr. zakir naik scandals? hah aha :D (I cant stop laughing) interesting. now coming to your answers he himself belongs to non islamic state. And he never said that non muslim should be denied to practice their faith in islamic state. Yeah he said about more revealing dress but he said that according to sunday times,a british newspaper(survey), and he gave reference (also from) BIBLE to the student of oxford university(it was not his personal statement). So would you like to include that British newspaper and BIBLE as part of Islamic terrorism? (as for you i think terrorism means Islam) Im following him for 2 or 3 years i never(ever) heard him saying that non muslims should not be given the right to practice their religion in islamic states. Bible:the women who does not cover her head dishonors the head. her head should be shaved off(after giving this reference he said)anyway i dont agree with this`. And I noticed one thing. I am giving you answer of every question with references and you are ignoring my questions ? why is that? And kindly be neutral when doing research about anything(it will benefit you) this is the link of his video about which you are talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbPlHMKsUYM

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I think the question was simple why people here are making it so complicated?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Juanid Raza:

So everything that Wikepedia and other sources state about Dr. Zakir Naid is untrue? That must be a gigantic conspiracy.

So Dr. Zakir Naid does NOT advocate Shariah law for India? He is for secular, modern law? He wants equal rights for all, including for apostates, atheists, and homosexuals? Equal rights for women?

Please confirm.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Willi

I so rarely agree with anything you post, but you're right here; this particular gentleman is a danger to civilisation.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@williB cool down man did you watched that video? if you are student you should no that every single school ask their students not to rely on wikipedian information. He has been entitled as Peace preacher by many non Muslim countries. (he is different from other scholars) That video has all almost all answers and yes he said death penalty is not Islamic punishment for apostates He gave reference of Hadith(Abu Dawood vol.3 hadith no. 4345). And you are confusing sharia law with muslim (majority)law. please be patient and watch that video of half an hour. And atheist are his favorite people. According to him atheist are half muslims. yes he( including me ) believes in equal rights for women. Yes he(and I ) advocate shariah law but not the one which you guys are misunderstanding. The sharia law which he is advocating pardons apostates. give rights to minorities to practice their religion in Islamic state. equal right for women. Killing of single human being(innocent) as unIslamic etc.(Dont consider saudia arabia as islamic country its not 100% islamic state) Kindly watch that video complete.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbPlHMKsUYM#sthash.gC4UI7dv.dpuf

@Nessie see you take the wrong meaning of my words how can I expect others(who claim to study Quran and Hadith) to take correct meaning of Islamic Ideology? The word make was used in the meaning of invent> what I meant was : who invented Nuclear bomb, Hydrogen bomb, Biological weapon etc.? you mentioned about some sort of gas? That is not Nuclear weapon I guess? Even a highschool student can make poisonous gases(if he has taken chemistry). As other respectable people here says that Muslim who changes his religion should be killed is Islamic law etc etc. so do please watch above video and clear misconception about death penalty for leaving islam, women (rights and status) etc. I I hope all people here will clear misconceptions about Islam. Hadith(abu dawood) 4345 : the prophet(PBUH) pardoned the person who changes his religion. This proves there is no death penalty for changing religion from Islam(thats what islamic sharia is about). Dont associate the (present) acts and laws(made by muslim majority Govt.) of muslims with Islam.

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Not a single western political analyst or published scholar attributed the 1978 revolution in Iran to religious causes at that time.

About that...

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,920918,00.html

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948893,00.html
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Junaid Raza:

" Yes he(and I ) advocate shariah law but not the one which you guys are misunderstanding. The sharia law which he is advocating pardons apostates. give rights to minorities to practice their religion in Islamic state. equal right for women. "

So now you are claiming that there is an alternative Shariah law out there, one that is tolerant and modern. What I want to know is: Why do we never this Shariah law in real life? Every time and everywhere in the world, where Shariah is established, it denies equal rights to non-muslims, women, apostates, and homosexuals, and limits free speech. Why is it that your fellow muslims NEVER discover this tolerant Shariah that you are talking about? Islam apparently produces a never-ending stream of "misunderstanders".

Or are you simply giving us an example of Taqiyya (islamic deception)?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@WilliB There is no alternative sharia. There is only one sharia Quran and (authentic)Hadith what some people do is that they either read half of verse or take it in entirely wrong context as the one Ph.D holder guy(you mentioned) little knowledge is dangerous.

As long as women are concerned they really have high status in Islamic society (not muslim society). Janna(paradise) lies beneath the foot of mother(woman). There is freedom of speech in Islam. But tell me one thing does having free speech(or freedom of expression) means to abuse anybody? make fun of anyone you want? so in the same sense everybody has freedom of speech and expression as long as it doesnt violate islamic law. One more thing forcefully making anybody to accept is Islam is totally wrong and against Islam. now coming to your most important question Why? I personally need to go and ask them but then I wont be able to reply you ;). I think( its just my opinion) some people have gone through hard times like the war b/w U.S and IRAQ, Lebanon, Afghanistan etc. and many poor innocent citizens were killed (massacred). So their (orphan) children grow up with troubles hardships sense of inferiority lack of education and hatred(against west). While other(ignorant muslims) motivated them to fight and kill every non muslim they are your enemies so those kids grow up with such hatred and passed on that hatred to their kids and so on (but its just opinion). Now I think I have proved that there is no such thing as killing of apostates as Islamic law. women have equal rights in islamic society, rights of minorities etc. You can say(what you mentioned) as Muslim majority law. And I am also against Muslim majority law.

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As stated above (8.19.2014 12:26PM) || Not a single western political analyst or published scholar attributed the 1978 revolution in Iran to religious causes at that time. || Only after the 1979 hostage crisis at the U.S. embassy in Tehran and the death of Shah Pahlevi by cancer in 1980 did the idea that there had been a revolution based upon on a religious movement in Iran (rather than a underlying shift in secular political forces) begin to gain some acceptance by western political analysts.The U.S. was simply unwilling to admit that its oppressive but covert tactics to control Iranian society had fomented an opposition movement directed by Islamic religious groups from outside the governmental and civil power structures. "The West was involved in toppling the Mossadegh government. That ultimately led to the Iranian revolution." "In Iran, fundamentalism was fuelled to an extent by the regime of the Shah being supported by the West." (Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses). Rusidie also says "I remember when I was young, many cities in the Muslim world were cosmopolitan cities with a lot of culture."

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If you've studied Islamic imperialism, you may noticed how tribal it is, especially what has been happening in the middle east after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. We must learn that it takes a Saddam Hussein to keep an Islamic state together without the fear of spreading to the west if it is to be stopped. We should learn from Saddam he was even an Allie of the West. Come to my conclusion if Saddam was supported and still alive ISIS would have a difficult time forming if they tried to challenge the Stalinist type character like Saddam possess.

1400 years - Why we are afraid of Islam (exposing the lies that we've been brainwashed (particularly in schools) about how friendly Islam is - no surprise when a government is mainly in the control of leftist Utopian fanatics who think that all cultures are valid so I guess its ok to tolerate rape of little children that is part of Islam, why? Because Mohammed approved it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

More sources with further source (in the description of each video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7zhCvRvUro - Islam - the Religion of Conquest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxf0XLPvfjg - The Alliance of Islam & the left (communists/socialists/most dictatorships) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuJi9TDUXIU - Will Islam Assimilate the West? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X4wXj4JUF0 - Palestine myth - A con by the Islamic world to only further their agenda of global dominance.
0 ( +0 / -0 )

david it won't

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