Do you consider the U.S. firebombing of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, to be a war crime?

Pre-4th Geneva Convention. You'd have to look at earlier agreements.

100,000 killed. What percentage of the victims were military? This was a war crime of the highest order. Apparently the USA military thought LeMay did a fine job as only a few years later he was put in charge of the air campaign in Korea.

“Over a period of three years or so, we killed off — what — 20 percent of the population,” Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War

https://www.vox.com/2015/8/3/9089913/north-korea-us-war-crime

Pre-4th Geneva Convention.

Which came to bear partially because of what happened to the Japanese civilian population in WW2, especially in Tokyo. The world knew the US had done was a crime, and had to be treated as such thereafter.

deanzaZZRToday 06:38 am JST

100,000 killed. What percentage of the victims were military? This was a war crime of the highest order. Apparently the USA military thought LeMay did a fine job as only a few years later he was put in charge of the air campaign in Korea.

And rightly so: that was a tough campaign to stop millions of PVA troops in their tracks.

TamaramaToday 06:39 am JST

Which came to bear partially because of what happened to the Japanese civilian population in WW2, especially in Tokyo. The world knew the US had done was a crime, and had to be treated as such thereafter.

Only because there are fewer photos of the 10 million dead in China. Guess that is why the US signed the agreement ahead of China, huh?

RIF

*“Over a period of three years or so, we killed off — what — 20 percent of the population,” Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War*

Yes. And a 'war crime' or a 'crime against humanity' can be defined without reference to the legalese any convention.

deanzaZZRToday 07:02 am JST

RIF

“Over a period of three years or so, we killed off — what — 20 percent of the population,” Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War

Still better than a unified Korea under the Kims.

During a war targeting civilian is a crime, the same is done everyday by russia right now and guess what the USA is now doing?

"Do you consider the U.S. firebombing of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, to be a war crime? "

Let by gones be by gones embrace the future because the same question could be asked regarding pealharbor right? Agitating people leads to more unnecessary deaths.

Absolutely a war crime not only in Japan but also in my home country with the horrific bombing of Dresden. I can sympathize even 80 years on because in my case this is a personal question, there were several people in my family who were either injured or killed in the bombings of German cities.

Cephus

History must not be forgotten to have a good future.

About pealharbor, it was not, tell me if I am wrong, a civilian target like Tokyo was.

The Americans dropped a bomb on my kids elementary school.

Let by gones be by gones embrace the future because the same question could be asked regarding pealharbor right? 

No. Japan attacked a US military base. The US targeted Japanese civilians including children.

Why should this, the atomic bombings, Itoman in Okinawa, and other things be forced on the public day in and day out, and why should we be told we have to remember it all, and yet if you mention sexual slavery, forced labor, Nanjing, and other atrocities committed by the IJA the government and even your average Joe Tanaka, if they'll address it at all, insist the "issue has been resolved" and we "should look forward, not backward", etc.? The way it's being played here constantly is that Japan did NOTHING wrong and is completely the victim of WWII. ALL acts of war are war crimes. You can't take others' lives without it being one, regardless of whether it is a civilian or a soldier. Doesn't make it less of a crime if it were only ten and not 20, or more or a crime if it were 20 and not "just" 10. Doesn't matter if it was the slaughter of women and children in Nanjing, or the fire bombing of Tokyo. War is just plain insanity and none of the forces that commit it are innocent.

No matter what people say or what one wants to believe, there are no rules in war.

"History must not be forgotten to have a good future.

About pealharbor, it was not, tell me if I am wrong, a civilian target like Tokyo was."

Of course history should not be forgotten but it also should not shackle people in the past. Mind you in the middle of a war a target is target whether military or civilians. Civilians don't have a single life and military personnel two lives. Once life taken is gone regardless!

Bombing was used against many nations in WWII. High explosives, incendiaries, explosive incendiaries, and even landmines were dropped. The list of nations bombed is a long one, and every Air Force with bombers is guilty of using them, many or most, likely killing some civilians or locals as collateral damage, even when attempting to hit military targets.

Tokyo and Dresden were two notable cases of allies firebombing cities, while the Nazi blitz on Coventry, the worst night was 11 hours of bombing using over 30,000 incendiaries, 50 landmines and 500 tons of high explosives, It was also trying out a new weapon, the exploding incendiary.

During WWII none were considered to be war crimes by the nations carrying them out, but today we consider targeting civilians to be a war crime, as is using incendiaries near civilians.

No. Japan attacked a US military base. The US targeted Japanese civilians including children.

Japan also bombed Darwin 64 times. We dont forget, but we do move on. It cant be changed at this point.

Remembering those lost with sorrow in your heart is natural. Forgiving the children and grand children of those who did these things is how we move forward and work in peace for a better tomorrow for us all.

Today's generations are not guilty of the past generations faults or crimes.

No. Japan attacked a US military base. The US targeted Japanese civilians including children.

No, the US targeted Japanese industrial and manufacturing facilities, which were often located within residential areas, and where many civilians were actually factory workers who were crucial to Japan's war effort.

According to the United States Strategic Bombing Survey, in early 1945 over 50% of Tokyo's industry was spread out among residential and commercial neighborhoods; the destruction of these neighborhoods in firebombing raids cut the whole city's output in half.

"Hey, there are a bunch of innocent civilians down there, including children -- let's bomb them!" is probably NOT what the Americans were thinking.

deanzaZZRToday  06:38 am JST

100,000 killed. What percentage of the victims were military?

Probably few of them, but a great many of them were working at the factories that the bombings were primarily meant to destroy.

And in 1945, when a place with lots of factories was bombed, it was inevitable that there'd be thousands and thousands of people working at those factories, and/or living near them, who would sadly be killed.

So, to spin this as "deliberately targeting civilians" is very much over-simplifying things.

This was a war crime of the highest order. 

Not when the targets were industrial and manufacturing installations that were crucial to Japan's war effort.

And since factories in 1945 were not staffed by robots but by people -- lots and lots of people -- unfortunately, people died when they got bombed. That doesn't mean that "civilians were deliberately targeted."

Or were the Americans not allowed to destroy the factories that were churning out products vital to Japan's war effort, products used by Japan (the country that started the war in the first place) to kill Americans?

"So, to spin this as "deliberately targeting civilians" is a very much over-simplifying things."

That's very true, but the issue is neither complicated. If we don't want civilians deaths, we don't have to start this endless wars in the first place.

Nibek: "Nibek32: "The US targeted Japanese civilians including children."

Japan targeted far more civilians (including women and children) in its history of colonization and WWII than of its own that were killed in this and other bombings, total. I believe the bombings were horrible, but I do not believe the IJA and Japan were not guilty of similar things and only targeted military by any means.

And to expand on what was said above by Deo Gratias in regards to the targets being industrial and part of the war machine, he's got a point. Of my two grandfathers, one was in the military and flew a fighter jet in Europe, shooting down Luftwaffe. The other could not go to Europe to fight due to a medical condition, so he stayed home and helped build bombs at home. He often would say, if he talked about that time, "I did my part. I helped with the war effort as much as I could." So, now, was he an innocent civilian or was he helping the Allies in the war effort in fighting the Germans and later the Japanese?

If you punch somebody in the face, why are you surprised if they punch back? If you surprised attack and bomb somebody, why are you surprised if they surprise attack and bomb you back?

All war is a crime, ipso-facto Japan is at fault.

We've come a long way in terms of how humans conduct war. 80 years ago and in previous wars, civilians were seen as targets. This is humanity's history, that civilians suffered being bombed and shot at along with the troops.

Have we evolved out of this?

We'll probably all be finding out the answer to that questions fairly soon.

iraira,

"We've come a long way in terms of how humans conduct war. 80 years ago and in previous wars, civilians were seen as targets. This is humanity's history, that civilians suffered being bombed and shot at along with the troops.

Have we evolved out of this?

We'll probably all be finding out the answer to that questions fairly soon."

I tell you what everything moving will be a target including roaches and fleas, or rather anything alive or dead. That's how bad it gets

I like the comment that there are no crimes in war? Because the civilian population have their voices muted by the explosions and determined (or the occasional begging comedians). Returning to Dresden it was a supposed retaliation for hits on English cities, woh but Dresden was an industrial centre and Civis were only collateral. A certain nation??? United in that response. Time has gone on. Civis in Dresden lived there, Civis in hiroshima.... Criminal.. FIRE bombing in Tokyo. If we still have contemporary hoomans saying collateral 'cos some of the family (anu under-line tricks??) Where next? just 'cos civis are still muted!

Sorries.. determined politicians and warmongers please insert!

No matter what people say or what one wants to believe, there are no rules in war.

Yes, war is bad and there essentially no real winners when it comes to human lives, but let’s not forget how the war even started to begin with, Pearl Harbor, everything else is an after thought, war is ugly, both sides thought they were justified in their actions. I don’t want to hear about innocent children being killed because the men that died in the Pearl Harbor attack were someone else’s children as well, dead is dead and a grieving parent is a grieving parent regardless of age, we should reflect and look on this as a learning lesson and understand the consequences of waging a war. Never pick a fight because in the end the aftermath will be something you may not wanted or intended.

To America, soldiers and civilians alike are just targets.

In Vietnam and Iraq, the American way was to massacre civilians along with their troops.

In fact, they destroyed the city of Hiroshima along with American prisoners of war with an atomic bomb.

America should not be thought of as an army that upholds justice.

Treaties mean nothing.

To America, soldiers and civilians alike are just targets.

Utter nonsense

In Vietnam and Iraq, the American way was to massacre civilians along with their troops.

If there was justifiable reason, yes, and I am talking about the majority of soldiers not the few crazy ones.

In fact, they destroyed the city of Hiroshima along with American prisoners of war with an atomic bomb.

That’s war, the sad, ugly reality

America should not be thought of as an army that upholds justice.

All the more reason why Trump doesn’t want us to be the worlds police, right or wrong, it never goes well and no one is ever satisfied.

Treaties mean nothing.

In this day and age, depends.

If the locals could have done it, they would have.

Did the war start at Pearl Harbor? lol

Do Americans who didn't receive a proper history education think that way?

If the US government hadn't given military aid to China, hadn't banned oil from Japan, and hadn't made the Yellow Peril theory so popular, it would have been easy for the US government to avoid war with Japan.

The US government wanted war, and pushed Japan into a corner both economically and diplomatically. That's the facts.

TINC

Only because there are fewer photos of the 10 million dead in China. Guess that is why the US signed the agreement ahead of China, huh?

No, simply because it was a war crime and everyone knew it.

That's all.

Stop trying to deflect the truth.

All war is a crime. I'm a huge fan of Japan I love the Country and its people. I'm also American and I know my nation isn't perfect. The bombing of Japan as I understand it was done as a means to break the population and it's leaders' into surrendering. The estimations of U.S casualties ranged from 250,000 to over a million dead from a typical land invasion. The Japanese fought hard and didn't give up. It was more cost effective, in both terms of money and life, to bomb. Do i wish it happened? No. I also wish the massacre of Nanjing and comfort women never happened. It's easy to look back and act like you were wronged. But, in this case, it seems like the pot is calling the kettle black.

It probably was a war crime but Japan can't do squat diddly to ask for compensation especially with Trump in power. Japan launched flea bombs over Chinese cities but nobody can get compensation from that either. Everyone engaged in war crimes.

That’s war, the sad, ugly reality

This is a very common and heartless justification for despicable war crimes which would never be used if the person who stated it (or their loved ones) was a victim.

No, because the aim was to destroy Japan's ability to make war. Most of Japan's factories were in or very near residential areas, according to US surveys at the time, as land use zoning was nearly non-existent . The US dropped plenty of leaflets explaining this to Tokyo's residents and telling them to evacuate. so, nope, not a war crime.

In the meantime, I'm waiting for JT's next "Voices in Japan": "Do you think Japan should acknowledge its routine use of biological weapons of mass destruction in China"? Just kidding. That will never happen.

This is a very common and heartless justification for despicable war crimes which would never be used if the person who stated it (or their loved ones) was a victim.

But it is the sad truth whether people want to accept it or not.

The US government wanted war, and pushed Japan into a corner both economically and diplomatically. That's the facts.

No, they are your opinions. The fact is the US wanted to stay out of the war and did everything it could to help those who had been attacked and invaded with "lend lease" and with restricting materials to Japan that it could use in its invasion of China.

If America had wanted to be in the war it would have jumped right in once its factories had been changed over to wartime productions. But they didnt, and although they increased production to assist England and Russia and others, they turned to a full wartime production only after Pearl Harbor.

No sane leader wants to send the younger generations off to war and death, especially after having sat on the sidelines and seen the consequences of war to others. America wanted to help but to stay out of conflict itself.

If Japan had helped Germany and attacked Russia rather than the US the world may have ended up quite different.

Bombing a city full of innocent people with napalm, in the middle of the night while they sleep, in houses made of wood and paper and taking advantage of a climate with strong winds so that they burned faster and at higher temperatures; It is one of the most horrific, cruel, evil and cowardly war crimes in history..

Whoever justifies these crimes do not have a good heart..

The American bombings of Tokyo were undoubtedly atrocious. From a moral and humanitarian perspective, the bombing of Tokyo must be considered a large-scale massacre of civilians. However, from a legal standpoint, at the time there was no clear legal framework defining such acts as war crimes, which is why no American officers were prosecuted for them. Unfortunately, at the time of these events, Japan's reputation was different from what it is today, as Japan itself was committing some of the most heinous war crimes in human history. As a result, the perception of the American action was (completely unfairly) seen almost as a form of justice/punishment for the numerous Japanese atrocities (Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731 Human Experiments, Mistreatment of war prisoners including forced labor, starvation, torture, executions, Bataan Death March, use of chemical and biological weapons, comfort women system, massacres and civilian atrocities such as Changjiao or Manila, targeting Civilians in the Pacific War including attacks on hospitals).

The main difference between U.S. and Japanese war crimes is that:

Many top Japanese officials were tried in the Tokyo Trials, but some war criminals, particularly from Unit 731, were never prosecuted due to U.S. protection and the interest of the U.S. to use their data.

The U.S. was not prosecuted because it was the winner and controlled postwar justice. While some actions were morally questionable, international law was applied asymmetrically in fto favor winners.

Nibek32Mar. 10 01:04 pm JST

Let by gones be by gones embrace the future because the same question could be asked regarding pealharbor right? 

No. Japan attacked a US military base. The US targeted Japanese civilians including children.

During the war, especially during World War II, atrocities were committed by both sides. From a historical perspective, you cannot say "The US targeted Japanese civilians including children" without considering that Japan also targeted civilians and hospitals. According to estimates (which can be verified online, including asking ChatGPT), the Americans were responsible for approximately 300,000 to 500,000 civilian deaths; historians estimate that Japan caused between 10 and 20 million civilian deaths in Asia, particularly in China and occupied areas. Estimates of civilian deaths are based on historical research and official documentation, but since these events are complex, the numbers can vary slightly depending on the source. However, it is generally accepted that Japan was responsible for a higher number of civilian casualties, mainly due to its atrocities in Asia.

If we want to answer the survey question "Do you consider the U.S. firebombing of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, to be a war crime?" the answer is definitely "Yes." If we want to say "Did the United States commit war crimes and target civilians?" the answer is "Yes." However, we cannot complain by saying "The US targeted Japanese civilians including children." Japan, just before Pearl Harbor, committed most of its attacks and crimes against civilians (such as the Nanjing Massacre and sexual slavery). The American action was atrocious, but Japan heavily contributed—not only with the attack on Pearl Harbor but also with various reports of its bloody conduct in Asia—to fueling the hatred and severity of the response against it. It's sad, but it's history.

It started before what Westerners refer to as WWII. Japanese imperialists bombed the civilian population of Shanghai starting in 1937. This was followed by the constant bombing of civilians in the wartime capital of Chongqing (Chungking) starting in 1938 and ending in 1944. Today tourists can visit the extensive underground tunnel and bunkers that were built by the Chinese at that time and even enjoy a spicy hot pot there.

Still two wrongs do not create a right. The USA fire bombing of Tokyo is a war crime of the highest order.

Yes

Do you consider the Japanese Imperial Army's genocides and massacre of nearly 30 million people while 20 million Chinese, a war crime?

Those 2 American atomic bombs kills as many Japanese as the imperial army was killing in 1 week.

Let's stop victimizing Japan and tell the historical truth.