Do you consider the way AKB48 are presented and marketed a form of porn?

Not at all... more like modelling to me. lol.

Well everyone who agrees to what Green panda have said are normal people, if you're not one of it... Indeed, your idea of porn is abnormal.

You cant say something is porn just because women are not dressed in trouser suits/burkas. Im sick of constantly hearing people suggest that just because women are dressed in a feminine way and/or are not grossly overweight, as is the norm with a great many women in the west that they are "child like" and anyone attracted to them is therefore a pedophile, it`s both ridiculous and offensive, not to mention it distracts from the real problem of genuine pedophilia.

It`s my long held belief that people who say things like this are actually the ones with sick minds who cannot help seeing perverted sex wherever they look and if they do see an actual underage girl dressed in an adult style they immediately have sexual thoughts and in response start preaching and suggesting the girl or their parents are at fault instead of considering that perhaps they themselves have a problem.

Why are so many people aware of these girl's ages in the first place? I find the obsession with the "child porn" angle weird and a little disturbing.

Yes, and not only that, but KIDDIE porn to boot in some cases! But then you have to look at how society here defines porn and/or sexuality. You see, aside from the one girl who has appeared in Playboy, or some other magazine in the buff, you have little girls in AKB who dance in lingerie meant for adults and touch each other, gyrate their hips, etc. But that is par for the course in a land that sells magazines with 12 and 13 year olds in bikinis on the cover, bending over in a sexual manner solely so you can see cleavage (or sure, they may be feigning to splash the camera with pool water, but hey).

"Blue light" porn, perhaps, and in many cases not porn at all, but they definitely cross the line in a lot of cases -- the add abusing the kid the other day is a prime example.

AKB48 is not porn. And I haven't seen one convincing argument on this page to say otherwise.

Never seen any of them engagaing in any kind of sexual act, so not porn. Some of them may well go on to be adult moviie stars.........

If it is porn, it's horrible

and if it isn't porn, it's horrible.

Of course it it porn. And that is fine, in and of itself. The problem I have with all the Japanese mainstream soft porn like this, is what it portrays; children as sex objects. And if you can't see it for this, for what it is, then you are blind.

Just yesterday returned back from my first trip to Japan and this might be more like a cultural thing.Knowing the Kawaii culture where some women seem to dressup look like teenagers, makes me a little a bit sceptical. Young and unexperienced is the thing;wasnt it so that one of the singers was dumped after was seen in the late hours getting out from her boyfriends appartment?. What else is it than playing with mens fantasies. Not adult entertainmet.But i my self wouldnt like the idea of my daughter adopting this kind of dressing up. Nore I find it making a young womans opportunities better in the workinglife.

Its pedo-pop, definitely a form of porn

How is the vote even as far as 50/50 lol this is not Porn at all! I am a AKB fan but not a crazed otaku one by any means. People comment negatively on the way they are marketed...well whether you like it or not sex sells! Not sex in reference to porn but rather the "sexy" image. Yeah some may be pervy old men while a ton of their fans are young girls as well. so either way you look at it, at the end of the day they are entertainers, just like entertainers all over the world who dress sexy and pretty for the attention of their fans and would be fans. So stop bickering and and enjoy.

I don't like AKB but I do like some other idol groups. I think AKB goes for the sexy look more than other Japanese idol groups do but calling it porn is a bit much. But then again a lot of their pv's certainly do sell on sexyness.

My main gripe however is this constantly quoted formula middle-aged man + idol = pervert. I think some people are so preoccupied with sex that they see it everywhere. I'm sure there will be some people only interested in idols sexually but that's the same with any group of any gender. If we lived in Victorian times where even showing a flash of ankle was considered risqué I dare say there would still be people happily intent on getting sexual kicks out of any women they see. The amount of flesh on display makes no difference to a persons desire to look at someone sexually if that's how their mind works. In fact given the easy access to hardcore pornography these days a flash of ankle in Victorian times probably had a bigger stimulus on a man then than, say, a hardcore porn film would today.

Anyway what I mainly wanted to say is that as a man in his 30's who likes idol groups I can say I do not masturbate over any of them and the thought of seeing them in a sexual way seems bizarre to me. The attraction of the groups is both musical (yes really) as well as the cuteness and happiness of the personalities. Oh and yes lots of idols are good looking too but that doesn't mean somebody is watching with their trousers around their ankles or sitting there thinking "sexsexsexsexsex". Idols are a blessed form of escapism that is far better than watching most western pop groups (a lot of whom really do sell on sex). I think it's far more odd to see the likes of a 14 year old Jojo singing about failed relationships and moving out of a lovers home than it is to see Japanese idols acting happy. But some people see sex everywhere. They are so preoccupied with sex that they can't even begin to comprehend other reasons to enjoy something.

Ultimately modern society both eastern and western is a very sexualised society but that doesn't automatically make something in that society porn. And it doesn't automatically make someone enjoying something involving young women a pervert even if they are a middle-aged man. It is the individual's attitude that is important and you are just as likely to find a young man or woman with a bad sexual attitude to somebody as a middle-aged man. People should stop being so judgemental of people they don't know and they should stop jumping to sexual conclusions all the time. If anything I find a person automatically presuming someone else is a sex case to be, ironically, a bit of a wanker.

Having said all that AKB may not be porn but they are crap. >.>

tkoind2Jan. 22, 2013 - 12:53PM JST Japan seriously, this is obvious soft kiddie porn. With horridly vapid music thrown in to mask it. These are teenage girls people. End this silly obsession with prepubescent kawaii. It is sick

To a degree I agree, but this is not just a problem in Japan. The States loves their women dressed up like Catholic school girls, remember trailer-trash Britney Spears and the throngs of male fans?

If you consider it pron, then you must hate going to the beach, pssst everyone there wears even less!

I know, I know shocking!

Okay new rule, no one can go to the beach unless they are fully clothed, pass the bibles and start wearing them dresses.

Come on, it's an act that is suppose to be suited to 17 year old school boys who drool when a girl wears very little.

Hell if you think AKB48 is porn then you must believe that women dressed in bikinis at the beach must be pornstars.

Some folks project what they want to project.

That's really disgusting that you're comparing AKB to porn...

Xeno hit the nail directly on the head on this matter. AKB48 is marketed in a way so that fans can view them as their friends, daughters, comrades, even girlfriends. This is why AKB48 has risen to become the most popular female group in Japan with many fans across all age groups and genders. A group that sells a million singles in one day obviously isn't going to only appeal to a niche market of "middle aged men" no, thats impossible obviously. MANY GIRLS LIKE AKB48 IN JAPAN, that's probably hard for some of you to accept but its the truth. If it was porn, they wouldn't be a household name and then some. Yes, AKB does employ sexual tactics to sell at times but who cares, what pop group doesnt? Taking bikini photos of a smiling 18 year old truthfully isn't as risque as some of the things you see in American pop culture.

Do you get excited at a table leg? Does the glimpse of an ankle send you into an orgasmic frenzy?

Apparently several million 40-something Japanese virgin males do! Haven't you seen these guys with their tongues out watching these 13 year olds on TV? LOL!

Some people here must have had a very sheltered upbringing if they feel that AKB is a porn phenomena. Do you get excited at a table leg? Does the glimpse of an ankle send you into an orgasmic frenzy?

Heck no!

Yeah, when you consider a large part of their fan base is middle-aged men you have to consider it to be some kind of soft porn. I have seen men watching their video clips on the train, but they are not listening to it. My eight year old daughter like their music, but watching them on YouTube she will even comment, "Sukebe!" It is without a doubt promoted as a form of cheap sexual entertainment for men, thus it is PORN!

Just look at the 30-40 year old male fans, bent over short skirt photos on their promotional material and obvious obsession with short skirts and swimwear in photos and videos.

Japan seriously, this is obvious soft kiddie porn. With horridly vapid music thrown in to mask it. These are teenage girls people. End this silly obsession with prepubescent kawaii. It is sick.

I don't think it is porn. Just marketed to different group of people. I think the western artists wears much more revealing outfits that is borderline porn IMO. Like Lady Gaga

Worst porn I have ever seen ! ! ! ! ! Screechy girls singing screechy songs.....

First time i am turned off by porn ( soft porn )... Every time I see 48 annoying screechy girls I feel sick

Childish teenagers is A BIG TURN OFF

If I was a teenager, I would literally pull my hair out watching or listening to their videos.

It's like watching 48 Britney Spears' 20x w/ childish antics.... " Teenagers, tweens and 20 years speaking, sounding and acting like " Baby Talk " is the most annoying and NOT sexy....

It appears some don't really understand the AB48 phenomenon; all they see is youngish girls flouncing about. I'm not a fan, and don't really understand the attraction, but unless one has some insight into the sub-culture of it, one will be missing the actual depth of the matter. AKB48, and it's off-shoots, aren't about sex; they're about sub-culture identification. And marketing, of course, but it's the former that drives the latter.

Fans of AKB48, and ilk, are like sports team fans; they are intimately invested in their team - they know the players, have their favorites, establish connections to those favorites (real or imagined), create sub-group identifications and micro-cultures. The producers have gone a long way to make these players real to the fan base, more so even than sports team producers. Many, most AKB48 fans see their favorites as more than just idols; they see them as someone they actually know - and this has a strong impact on personal identity and group culture.

I don't follow these groups, AKB48, JKT48, SNH48, TPE48, but I have a psychologist friend who does, and who frequently tells me about her astonishment at the depths of the sub-culture, and the psycho-sociological mechanisms employed; she does not consider it pathological at all - simply something we humans do; the produces have hit on a way to work this that's quite clever.

sex sells, that's it, throughout all ages and cross-culturally. i'll never spend a single yen on anything ei-kei-bi, but one must admit they are sometimes nice to look at.

Just ridiculous like the cheerleaders in the US. Very puritan places can still excite their libido with pseudo teenager girls. What these girls do is definitely not porn IMHO, but what the guys looking at have in their mind is. For sure!

But at the end of the day, who cares? They seem happy to do so, their managers have huge smiles while listening the money clinging and the old chaps feel younger for a while. Nothing really wrong and everyone happy. What more?

At least is no porn in the way we can expect what is porn, but I think is a very clever way to exhibit women as object in the sight of the society, by using teenagers as a cute troupee of cute girls insinuating that she could be with someone older. And I think they came farther than her rivals Morning Musume. When the MM were really famous I compared the Hello Project with a situation that happened in Mexico regarding a guy called Sergio Andrade that was the manager of Gloria Trevi and other pop music acts, with the difference that he broke the line and end in jail by minor corruption.

when I see a money-shot I'll say yes, til then no!

Only in Japan, that says it all. Young girls portrayed like objects for money. Same as porn.

Are we still talking about Kasai's picture with that kid? That's not porn.

Try watching some, you'll notice the difference quite fast.

I'm glad there is a bright side to all of this beside that kid's pasty sun dodging complexion

At least we know that everyone has a firm grip on what they consider porn.

Are we still talking about Kasai's picture with that kid? That's not porn.

Try watching some, you'll notice the difference quite fast.

I don't think that you can call or label porn as easily as larson or robbery.

I personally don't get off on people: beating the crap out of each other with whips, bounding and gagging making yellow snow cones on each other eating each others butt brownies out of a cone

but someone's flag pole gets raised watching these in the privacy of their home.

Personally I think they are being exploited with a marketable image that certain people flock too.

If it's on YouTube it can't be porn... they remove anything like that very very quickly.

Just found this video. Culturally, ethically, religiously, historically...it can't get any more disrespectful and vulgar. To my eyes this is definitely pornography! The country that has produced Kawabata, Murakami, Edogawa, Hiroshige, Kurosawa and Oshima (rip), just to name a few, has reduced itself to this low. Omedeto! Tanoshinde: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28VE3PT51xE

No. And if you do, you have a weird idea of what porn is.

Lowly

" OK, next question should be, is figure skating porn? "

Only according to islamic law, not for the modern world.

The same applies for AKB48.

Good example.

This is getting silly... next you'll be saying that Maid cafes are knocking shops.

Are the girls having sex? No Are the girls nude? No Are the girls making lewd gestures? No

So where does the porn element come in? Gosh, they are wearing tartan miniskirts with a quasi-military uniform which some see as school uniform-like... that must be it. How about Supergirls? They wear a school uniform? How about gravure models in uniforms? Is that porn?

Yes, some of the AKB videos and photo books are 'blimey... bit risque'... and that's all it is. Risque. I see girls from a school on my way home from work which are a damn site raunchier than AKB... and they are real schoolgirls!

According to islamic law, yes. But not according to Western law, by any stretch of the imagination. Which raises the question why some people want to apply islamic law to a Japanese pop group?

No - it would be considered indecent not pornographic.

And their difference with AKB?? To work on a skill? No, Akb are working on dancing as well, and singing. The only difference is akb is for profit.

Another way to look at it is this;

So hookers work for a profit too, and in effect AKB's members are prostituted out for their looks and dubious skills to make money for their pimp Mr Akimoto.

Lowly

" OK, next question should be, is figure skating porn? "

According to islamic law, yes. But not according to Western law, by any stretch of the imagination.

Which raises the question why some people want to apply islamic law to a Japanese pop group?

porn, kiddie porn or pedophilia? Whatever it is, it seems to be well suited to Japan, although they are popular throughout Asia.

I view porn as the pure objectification of the human body for gratification. I have no issue at all with porn - quite like it, actually! - but dressing women up as schoolgirls stinks...welcome to Japan and its Lolita culture, eh...?

Not just Japan... what about Britney Spears for her first video? THAT was a raunchier look. How about the Russian duo Tatu? They dressed as schoolgirls for one of their videos. How about adult actresses playing schoolgirls in films... such as St Trinnians, or any number of others?

So before you label Japan the kiddie porn capital again, look around you at the rest of the world.

Whenever I go to Karaoke with my friends and their children, the kids sing mostly AKB48 songs. I see nothing wrong with them. The kids are happy.

They market their sexuality but "porn" is too strong of a word.

I think people have a problem with understanding the definition of what pornography is;

the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement

Does AKB in their productions so erotic behavior? Some may say yes to that, others no, and it could be because what one individual sees as being erotic is different from another.

: material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement

I would say in my opinion the AKB48 depicts erotic behavior in many of it's photos so by this definition yes it's porn.

: the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

Yes to this too.

Now to the folks at the Urban Dictionary one of their definitions of pornography;

Any material which becomes, right after masturbating, not at all interesting.

I think you have to ask the Otaku's about this one.....but if this is the definition of porn, then I would bet to them the answer is no, because AKB is probably still interesting after the fact to them.

The kind of titillating stuff adults with serious psychological problems would find "sexy" enough to choke their chicken

Was this directed at me?

Can you imagine them opening the Tokyo Olympics?

I can imagine their younger successors doing it, yes. (Starts looking for tissues or other rag)

There's no Dunno button... I don't pay any attention to them and don't watch the kind of programmes they appear in, so I have no idea.

Thanks for your comment nonetheless.

One needs to take a very long and deep look at the Japanese culture before it could be judged as porn. Porn in one country might be corn in another.

It is rubbish designed to not only get young fans but to titilate childlike men, the type no doubt who have no plans to ever marry. It is a sign of how sick much of modern society is.

There's no Dunno button... I don't pay any attention to them and don't watch the kind of programmes they appear in, so I have no idea.

If you look at some of their male fans they sometimes show on TV - you know - the bespectacled 40-year-old-virgins salivating whilst watching them dance - I guess it has to be considered a form of porn - to them. I do find it an interesting observation to see 12 and 13 year old girls along with the older girls dressed as maids in uber-short skirts, however. Should they be outlawed? No.

And lets not forget:

Erotica is using a feather, pornography is using the whole chicken.

Of course. Almost all pop groups are presented in a way resembling porn, going by the definition of porn as an image designed to cause erotic stimulation, and of course that's what the marketing people are thinking when they design AKBs skimpy outfits, or Justin Bieber with his shirt off. Or did they want appeal to the mother and father in all of us? Everyone does it in the pop world going back decades.

The way they are presented no, but the way they are marketed, yes. Shops selling pictures of them in bikinis and skimpy clothing for hundreds of dollars and I've seen tons of people trading those pictures in Akihabara...

Merriam Webster says:

Definition of PORNOGRAPHY

1: the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement

2: material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement

3: the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

Therefore they are. It's not hardcore, quite soft actually but stupid and very very cheap. The kind of titillating stuff adults with serious psychological problems would find "sexy" enough to choke their chicken. On the other hand WilliB is right. If you ban them (for being "porn") then I guess Saria laws is the next step. The Japanese public should have had the cultural sense to ignore them instead of making them cultural ambassadors because they sell a lot. Can you imagine them opening the Tokyo Olympics?

AKB48 asn act I would not define as porn. But I do find the idea of grown up women dressing as sexy underage girls for the titillation of middle aged men pretty disturbing. Not porn though. To me, porn (with consenting adults) is less disturbing then what AKB48 do.

K-pop and J-pop girls are actually about the same age ranges. The difference is in how they portray themselves. K-pop like to portray themselves as young upcoming women. J-pop like to portray themselves as underage girls σ^_^;

No, it's not porn.

BUT that doesn't mean its not damaging to impressionable young minds. Using sex as a marketing tool is no secret and this is the outcome of decades of sex selling. I wonder where we will be in another 30 years and what will be acceptable then. The same goes for violence and drugs etc. Such is life.

Titillation for some, maybe. Porn, no.

Although the way they portray their under-aged girls can at times be uncomfortably inappropriate, in my opinion it isn't anywhere close to being on par with pornography. The definition of pornography is really up to the viewer and cultural standards. By Western and Japanese standards, what AKB does isn't in the least bit comparable to pornography. If judged by Islamic law, I would guess the answer would be yes.

No.

No, not porn, it is a form of punishment.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "pornography" involves the "depiction of genitalia". So unless you've got x-Ray vision, this ain't porn.

If you stretch the definition of "porn" to cover that

I wouldn't really, other than a turn in phrase, such as in "a form of porn".

Law dictates what is and isn't porn here and elsewhere.

Nonsense. If you stretch the definition of "porn" to cover that, then everything is "porn". This inflation of words destroys their meaning. Kind of like crying wolf too many times.

It's not even porn.

Well there you have it, folks!

Who do you think you are talking to?

The one and only porn video on Youtube!

Well if I had to choose one...

AKB's video for Heavy Rotation for example could fall under porn.

Well there you have it, folks! The one and only porn video on Youtube! 84 million views and apparently the moderators over at Google have missed this one apparently, despite it being a porn video and violating the TOS. Same goes for many Beyonce and Lady Gaga videos.

Oops a bit click-happy here. Thought it was about that blonde-hair, blue eye with Tomomi shot. Apologies.

AKB's video for Heavy Rotation for example could fall under porn. While ridiculous overall, the flesh and lingerie is a jaw-dropper.

porn is by definition a recording of explicit sexual activity

What in the dictionary or something? Try Japanese law and its take on children touching genitals or breasts.

Absolutely not. As GreenPanda said, porn is by definition a recording of explicit sexual activity. I don't even think Playboy, which features nude women not engaging in sexual activity, counts as "porn". These AKB48 girls may be marketed to appear very young and sexy and that is not porn. It might be inappropriate, but it isn't porn.

They have wide range of fans~children,young and old women,and young and old men.

Porn = People having recorded sex.. I see no sex, ergo I see no porn.

Maybe not porn in the true sense. But it is designed to appeal to dirty middle aged and older men who get their jollies looking at young women in provocative poses. Normally middle aged men who still live with mummy or who don't wear the pants in their family

It's soft porn. All the middle-aged guys who go to watch AKB48 go to eye up as much flesh as these young girls are told or allowed to show - obviously not there for the music.

No. To think it is is to not understand the meaning of the word 'porn'.

I view porn as the pure objectification of the human body for gratification. I have no issue at all with porn - quite like it, actually! - but dressing women up as schoolgirls stinks...welcome to Japan and its Lolita culture, eh...?

I can tell it's not porn, because I don't like it.

Very interesting Geoff, what exactly is your definition of porn?

How can you ask that question seriously? Not only is it porn, it is child porn. It is the objectification of young adult women dressed as girls for the gratification of middle aged men!