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Do you think herd immunity in a country can curb the coronavirus?

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Herd immunity does not mean your electing to sacrafice a percentage. The virus decides that. And we all know you cant stop what cant be stopped.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That may work for San Marino or Iceland, but not for highly populated countries that are not under the wealth umbrella of G7 etc. Can you imagine a herd immunity in India, Brazilian favelas or let’s say some African regions, where they even kill you if you come nearer with a vaccine in your hand? Just stop spreading your illusions and false hopes. That would help the most.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There is no such thing as immunity to virus because they mutate so regularly and quickly. If there were immunity the common cold would no longer exist. However, as virus mutates 99% of the time it becomes less lethal and this is how overtime they become just another almost harmless background virus. Unfortunately, very occasionally a virus mutates into something lethal. But as such virus kills it's host it finds it much harder to spread. So no, despite the beliefs of Boris fxxkwit Johnson and his boss Cummings herd immunity from virus is unachievable as it isn't possible.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Here is an article about Herd immunity . . . . based on the article, it sounds like it must be achieved,

https://www.mayoclinic.org/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Can herd immunity curb the coronavirus?

Probably yes, but at what cost?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

'Herd Immunity' worked so well in 1918-19 that ONLY 50-100 MILLION Humans in a World population of 1.8 Billion died horrible deaths. And in the case of that N1H1, most of the victims were healthy young people killed by their own immune systems. We now have, in one hundred short years, 7.5 Billion Humans in our herd. Herd immunity, really, is malaise and sepsis, the complete elimination of the infected herd member whether by enhanced predation (malaise) or, when malaise fails, sepsis (immune system eats the body). Sepsis is the same process in the herd for infected individuals that the cellular process apoptosis (a-POH-TOH-sis) is when surveillance cells meeting and identifying a neoplastic or virally infected cell orders it to die.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The answer to the question is yes, whether it does or not is dependent on circumstances.

as ever there are no simple answers to complex questions!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Sweden tried, but failed. 

As far as I am aware, Sweden did not make herd immunity a goal, but decided that on balance, keeping the economy open was a better long-term option than going into lockdown. Whilst Sweden has the worst numbers of all the Nordic countries, it is still better than Britain, which actually did have a lockdown.

Johnson and Cummings decided to go for the herd immunity approach in the U.K. 

Despite the incompetence of these individuals and those around them, I do not think that herd immunity was a specific goal, but rather an acknowledged inevitable outcome in a pandemic. The way to manage it is to ensure that the numbers infected do not overwhelm the health system at any one time. If you have a silver bullet vaccine, then happy days, but otherwise you have a long-term endemic illness that has to be managed around daily life. In ten years time, we may well have something resembling herd immunity.

The decision to send old people from hospitals to care homes was down to incompetence, not engineering herd immunity.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

In my understanding you test more you find more and the US has tested around 40-50 million and Japan 400-500 thousand so that is a hundred times less. Also the US has an obesity and diabetes epidemic and such persons seem more at risk of death from the virus.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Reckless, I have read similar, but despite the politician who said it was 'superior genetic makeup' or something, there is another theory that Japanese and other Asians have been unknowingly exposed to similar coronaviruses in the past. Other reasons often given for the lower figures all-round include the BCG shot which is almost universally administered here.

We could maybe add the ease with which masks have been accepted, where no groups have taken to protesting their 'right' not to wear one in public.

Why do you think the figures for positives and deaths appear to be considerably lower here? Non-availability of testing, for example?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

We are not a herd of cows, although to some it may be a useful concept.

The question above is phrased 'in a country' so I guess if we return to bats again, it would be posited in each bat cave community where they carry it; the bats must develop some kind of common immunity, the weaker ones succumbing to it each year.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

ohnson and Cummings decided to go for the herd immunity approach in the U.K.

Don't think they even thought of that. They were just bumbling along as has been Trump. They just couldn't be arsed to take thea leadership on this.

Yeah, the actions of both America and the UK at the start of the pandemic boiled down to 'close your eyes and hope really really hard that it goes away and assure people it will'.

How'd that work out for them?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

LudditeAug. 3  10:30 am JST Johnson and Cummings decided to go for the herd immunity approach in the U.K. 

Don't think they even thought of that. They were just bumbling along as has been Trump. They just couldn't be arsed to take thea leadership on this.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Of course it would, but we can’t magically confer herd immunity on people. To do so safely requires a vaccine.

If we shot everyone with coronavirus as soon as they were diagnosed then we’d never see another coronavirus death again. But it would be a bad solution.

Whoever writes these polls needs to take a little more time on them.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This isn't the chicken pox, it is unacceptable for 20% of the senior population to die because "it is what it is".

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It is not possible to predict right now, but we have been living with it for more than half a year now and all the different strains and variants identified around the world can be neutralized with the same antibodies, so is not looking like it can do so easily or readily.

agree

With the data until now the worst case scenario is a vaccine that works for a year, that stills makes it possible to eradicate the disease, not easy but possible.

which may never exist according to the WHO

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

but do we know whether this one will escape the immune system or not?

It is not possible to predict right now, but we have been living with it for more than half a year now and all the different strains and variants identified around the world can be neutralized with the same antibodies, so is not looking like it can do so easily or readily. With the data until now the worst case scenario is a vaccine that works for a year, that stills makes it possible to eradicate the disease, not easy but possible.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Also, viruses do merge, but does that mean your immunity is limited to the first version? I don’t know

That's a good question and a number of experts on various news channels were saying that they don't know what's going to happen either. They did say that they were pretty apprehensive about the flu season and what's going to happen when the flu meets covid. There is still a good possibility that this could get MUCH worse.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Herd immunity can be achieved even with mutating viruses, not all mutations let a virus escape the immune system. Many viruses mutate continuously but they are contained with vaccines that protect for life

but do we know whether this one will escape the immune system or not?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Studies are showing that the antibodies for COVIC-19 only stay in the body for about 2 to 3 months. That makes both vaccines and herd immunity difficult. Not to mention the mutated strains.

Yeah, the actual antibodies greatly decrease within the first few months, that is normal. But memory cells remain, and they will allow your immune system to quickly respond to any future infection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_wSU1JnTE

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Herd immunity only means that a certain percentage of the population has become immune to the virus so its spreading is interrupted even if it is still around. The problem is how to reach that point.

The hard way is just by getting infected, that is how the seasons of colds and other minor infectious diseases happen, eventually the population becomes immune and this particular virus stops spreading.

The easy way is with vaccination, people become immune with much less risk than with the natural infection but the result is the same. For example people of this country are immune to Japanese encephalitis virus and almost no cases happen, even if the virus is present and infecting other hosts organisms.

The problem is when there is vaccine available and the cost of getting immunity naturally is too high, the solution then is to replace it temporarily with other measures that interrupt the spreading, but those measures are also costly, so it becomes a problem of how much resources to sacrifice to prevent how many cases.

No. Viruses mutate.

Herd immunity can be achieved even with mutating viruses, not all mutations let a virus escape the immune system. Many viruses mutate continuously but they are contained with vaccines that protect for life.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

But still, over 5000 deaths proves that herd immunity is an unattainable target.

That doesn’t prove that immunity is unattainable. All it proves is that achieving her immunity requires huge sacrifices that most are not willing to accept.

I believe her immunity would work, but s as I stated, how far is one willing to go. Nothing is free.

Also, viruses do merge, but does that mean your immunity is limited to the first version? I don’t know

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Trying to delay the inevitable will only worsen the economy, increase the number of suicides, and decrease the overall health of the population.

But the rich will get richer. Much, much MUCH richer. Gotta love the elites.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The result shows just pure panic.

If anyone who isn't a epidemiologist were honest enough, Maybe would be the biggest number, but everyone is in fatalist panic mode right now, so No becomes the default, even if people really have no idea about this.

Every day that passes after March is just depressing, looking at humanity going down the drain hole.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Studies are showing that the antibodies for COVIC-19 only stay in the body for about 2 to 3 months. That makes both vaccines and herd immunity difficult. Not to mention the mutated strains.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Furthermore, as an expert in everything, I thought the purpose of lockdowns was to flatten the curve so that health systems can cope. To think you can lockdown until there is no more virus or we develop a miracle cure is pretty naive, I would have thought. Anyway, surely we'd be in a better position to answer this question in a year or so. I vote 'yes'.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I think it's too soon to tell for sure but isn't Sweden a good example? As @ペルソンペル says, deaths are way down and confirmed cases have dropped a lot since the peak. Since they haven't changed their stance wouldn't this suggest that the herd immunity theory is still a valid theory? I can't see the long term benefits for countries that lock up entirely. You can't stay closed forever.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Herd immunity would work if everyone who caught it developed long term functional immunity. Some don't develop immunity at all. At best it's short term.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

I'm Swedish

Sweden is down to a few deaths per day now, A total of 5,744 have died in the corona pandemic so far. When it was at its peak, we had 100 per day.

People follow recommendations and about 35% flock immunity in Stockholm where it was most cases.

The rest of the country, the immunity is estimated to be about 5%.

The largest number of deaths were among immigrants and the elderly in geriatric care.

 A large part of the staff is paid by the hour, but without social benefits if they stay at home,they speak or understand Swedish very poorly.

They spread the infection between the rooms in the facilities .

Elderly care has been a way for Sweden to keep the unemployment figures down for the country, by having no requirements for employment and low wages.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Lock thirty experts in a room, and ask the same question. You would be none the wiser a week later.

You can’t find 30 experts on this virus because it is new.

If you could find 30 experts, they would all learn something.

I seriously doubt that any experts are posting here.

Still, Sweden’s experiment resulted in a lot of dead people, and any advantage to what they did will take time to be confirmed, if it exists.
11 ( +12 / -1 )

The bats that were harboring it had... er, flock immunity.

I hope that humans will one day develop hive immunity. I refuse to use the other H word.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Spain was hid hard, but a study suggest only about 5% of the population had developed antibodies. We need that to be about 90% for herd immunity to kick in. The sacrifices necessary would be too great.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

It was herd immunity from the start and will be to the end Japanese government did very little to contain this all they did was lie though their teeth for months on end..

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Herd immunity is all we have.

Trying to delay the inevitable will only worsen the economy, increase the number of suicides, and decrease the overall health of the population.

Those of us who are healthy should continue living normal productive lives and become immune to this virus. However, the vulnerable should be protected, and avoid crazy policies like those of Cuomo, Whitmer, and others who forced infected people to be placed in nursing homes...

-10 ( +11 / -21 )

Lock thirty experts in a room, and ask the same question. You would be none the wiser a week later.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Strangerland: "Great. Now we get to read the comments of a bunch of people who clearly don't know anything about how it all works, telling us how they think it all works."

Summed up a lot of your comments perfectly! But keep telling everyone how they've got it wrong, amigo. What you fail to notice (or just subjectively forgot), is that the question asks what you think, which people are free to express despite your anger towards them for doing so. And they are allowed to use evidence to back up what they believe.

What we know is that of those who recover, many still suffer for weeks if not months, and may even have percent damage to the lungs and other organs. Professionals have said there is no guarantee that any vaccine will provide immunity permanently, or even for a prolonged period, with some evidence that you can catch it again. So, no, I do not think "herd immunity" can help curb anything unless the goal is to simply make less sick people by increasing the corpse number. And yes, viruses do mutate. It's fact. Whether this one does we will see (although evidence suggests it may have already, with the newer version being even more easily spread). It certainly hasn't disappeared altogethers, as some people said it would, or even decreased in the summer months, as many had believed and/or hoped. And nations that have stayed open to try out this herd immunity thing have failed.

4 ( +14 / -10 )

Great. Now we get to read the comments of a bunch of people who clearly don't know anything about how it all works, telling us how they think it all works.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

We're not even angry at being herds.

Serfdom beautifully repackaged.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

and if we all moved to public transportation...That would save many lives

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

Sweden tried, but failed. They have more than 5000 Covid-19 related deaths. In comparison Norway (who closed soon) have just over 200 deaths. Of course Sweden (10.2 million) is much bigger than Norway (5.4 million). But still, over 5000 deaths proves that herd immunity is an unattainable target. That's more deaths than China (the number in China is probably higher), but officially that's what they're saying.

Norway and Denmark closed down soon, and moved away from the herd immunity-theory. A move that have likely saved the lives to many people in both Norway and Denmark.

9 ( +19 / -10 )

Johnson and Cummings decided to go for the herd immunity approach in the U.K. and threw the elderly, the vulnerable and, especially, those living and working in care homes to the wolves, an ‘acceptable’ sacrifice. The public response at the death toll made them change tack, it is was too late. The U.K. has one of the highest death tolls in the world.

14 ( +21 / -7 )

Going for 'herd immunity' means you're willing to sacrifice a large percentage of your population to the virus, mainly the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. In an animal population, it keeps the herd healthy and it does the same among humans, but its all about ethics and morality when your dealing with human beings so you need to decide what your values are as a society.

19 ( +27 / -8 )

No. Viruses mutate.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

Over the Long term? Maybe.

Right now? Not a chance.

18 ( +25 / -7 )

here's what I understand about viruses, even if you you've already had the virus or have developed immunity against it, it doesn't mean you can't be reinfected or carry it to others, not to mention that viruses tend to evolve new strains to which you might not be immune to yet. I just remember that history anecdote when the spanish conquistadors arrived in latin america and caused the death of the local population since they might have carried the plague with them that locals have not yet developed an immunity from.

11 ( +19 / -8 )

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