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Do you think it is a good idea to include patriotism in school curricula?

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No, but it's rife here in schools.

7 ( +20 / -13 )

If you have to teach patriotism then some reflection is needed about the nation.

23 ( +30 / -7 )

I know the poll is set this way, but just knowing the majority of people here oppose teaching of patriotism in schools says nothing about the merit of their point of view.

If Patriotism is not taught, then they need to provide something better to be taught.

You just don't leave a void that can and WILL be filled by all kinds of elements later on. If a sense of responsibility, duty and even belonging is not going to be attached to ones nation, it will attach somewhere else.

Now in itself is not a bad thing, it completely depends on the way it is taught, and WHAT exactly is taught. It's one thing to teach a nation is superior or first world than most of other nations, and make it a case for elitism, etc. And it's an entirely different thing to teach history, roots, civility and duty for whatever the home nation has gone through and achieved as a group to form responsible sensible citizens.

Just leaving a vacuum is not better. Kids in a bad environment can swiftly fill that void(worse when paired with a parental void) with apathy, gang affiliation, chaos, detachment and so on.

Some people propose teaching humanity as a broader sense of belonging, however, it all has to be well thought through and throughout.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

Yes, but the curriculum should have broad support, input and be transparent; not decided by one extreme faction.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

No

1 ( +13 / -12 )

Yes.

As a bulwark (or at least an impediment) to neo-liberal globalism.

-17 ( +12 / -29 )

Hell, no!

Provide something like civic education instead.

11 ( +19 / -8 )

Of course, with all those pandemic and LongCovid health consequences , climate change , economic downturn developments , low wages and disrupted careers etc, everyone needs at least a little virtual reason to get up every morning at six and have a motivation to do whatever something useful.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Rather than patriotism, encourage students to think deeper about what kind of country/society they would like to create.

14 ( +20 / -6 )

No. If you cannot develop critial thinking skills then no questions can ever be asked.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Yes.

As a bulwark (or at least an impediment) to neo-liberal globalism.

Good, someone else gets it

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

However way educational authorities and administrators ultimately decide to handle this sticky policy decision, can we end up at a point as far from this guy as it is humanly possible?

Quote:

The main requirement of our Party ideological work at present is to prepare all the members of society to be genuine loyalists and ardent patriots who cherish the Party Central Committee’s revolutionary idea as part of their faith and life and, at the same time, to bring about steady innovation in it to meet the needs of the times and the developing revolution while keeping the ideological work going nonstop at a high level.

Kim Jong Un, 11 Oct speech, entitled “Let Us Further Improve Party Work in Line with the Demands of the Period of Fresh Development of Socialist Construction.”

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Another quote on topic from The Kim:

Socialism is what keeps us alive and it represents our life and future, emphasizing the need to pay attention to strengthening education in faith in socialism.

Reaction?

When the respected General Secretary ended his speech, all the participants broke into cheers of “Hurrah!” that shook the venue.

The participants extended the highest respect to the respected General Secretary who is making indefatigable thinking and efforts to bring about drastic development of socialist construction and turn the people’s desire and wish into a great reality by markedly enhancing the leadership prestige and the fighting efficiency of the WPK.

And then the people rejoiced . . . or else!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

As if formal education isn't enough indoctrination already...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

When education becomes indoctrination, switch to home schooling. And move away from the sort of places that are likely to be nuked in the next war.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Wow.

Some people don't understand the definition of patriotism.

"Devoted love.support and defense of one's country, national loyalty."

No patriotism=Easy to walk all over Japan. Our land, Water, Islands taken away, bullied like Taiwan in the future if they fall.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

Yes, but only to a degree. And that 'degree' is forever debatable.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

100% no. What some may think is patriotism could quickly turn to xenophobia and racism. Experienced it a lot in high school in Australia.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

If "Heather Has Two Mommies" can be read in some elementary schools in the US, there should be nothing wrong about including patriotism in in school curricula.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Patriotism is a respect for one’s country derived from understanding its history and its people. Indoctrination is a set of beliefs, ceremonies, rituals, and ways of action that one is force to adopt. Patriotism is personal, and is not a school subject.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Didn’t the Japanese try this before with very mixed results?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Absolutely not. Especially in Japan where unconscious bias has already led to casual xenophobia, racism, and just general all-around discrimination of anything and anyone not Japanese.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

instead of patriotism, teach kids instead to love their country and appreciate the world and other cultures as well. Moreover, teach them to love the environment instead.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

NO!

Teaching patriotism is like teaching forced religion...."....one nation under god!"

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I voted "no" only because there are a couple of countries out there where patriotism is raised to the level of ultra nationalism and used by an autocratic regime to control the populace. In democratic countries generally it can be taught in schools to some degree without much harm. And in some cases, where the level of patriotiosm has been low for many decades, it may be a good, if not needed thing.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Voted no. All too often what is defined as patriotism ends up being bigoted jingoism. Inculcating patriotism at school can all too easily turn in to a slippery slope in to something never originally intended.

’patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels’ Dr. Johnson 1775. Referring specifically to what I described above, the misuse of patriotism for political ends.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

NO!

Interesting how only Fascist and Communist states insist on teaching patriotism! China and NK being perfect examples...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Thomas GoodtimeOct. 11  08:05 am JST

No, but it's rife here in schools.

Where's here? Beijing? Cause it sure isn't Japan.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Patriotism is refuse for the scoundrel

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Japanese patriotism is just awful.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Where's here? Beijing? Cause it sure isn't Japan.

Ossan, you are obsessed with China.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

No, because anyone asking that question desires NATIONALISM under the guise of patriotism.

OssanJapan: "Where's here? Beijing? Cause it sure isn't Japan."

Oh, it most certainly is. Lest we forget Akie Abe's very public visit to a kindergarten that forces kids to give speeches about how Japan owns the South Korean Dokdo islands, among other things -- yes, CHILDREN. And that school was given money by the state to teach those lies and similar garbage. Then there's removal of sexual slavery and Japanese atrocities from any history texts, and people teaching that Japan was "defending itself" at Pearl Harbor, that the sex slaves were "willing prostitutes that got paid well", "There was no 'Bataan Death March' and it was an easy hike with Japanese soldiers treating POWs well", "Japan was a victim in WWII, not an aggressor," "There was no Unit 731... except they were a world-respected and loved medical team," "There was no Nanjing Massacre," etc.

At least China doesn't PRETEND it's actually teaching non-whitewashed history.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

ReasonandWisdomNipponToday  07:12 am JST

Wow.

Some people don't understand the definition of patriotism.

"Devoted love.support and defense of one's country, national loyalty."

Love is something that develops naturally and spontaneously. It doesn't come from a school textbook. Teachers should teach their subjects and leave students alone to learn about their country and decide how patriotic they are for themselves.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Patriotism is sorta like loving your family... Which doesn't need to be taught, but reciprocated based on the love and care they provided you.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Globalists, and generally enemies of nation-states, do whatever they can to suppress patriotism. Today, there a very homogeneous nation-states in the world. Fortunately, Japan is one of them.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

'Patriotism', political programming, almost always is "We are better than them". It is a way of limiting 'worldview' in our children and deliberately obscures the fact that we are a single species with nothing but common interests. It always favors the ruling interests of the particular group, however heinous their aims, and is most seriously pursued in the most aggressive and warlike cultures amongst us. Hitler, for the usual example, was big on 'patriotism', as is the United States and as was the Japan of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

When a young child is raised in a milieu, it forms their identity as a Human and, regardless of further education and accretion of 'wisdom', will always be their base identity. But 'patriotism' only poisons that identity with the inability to view positively other identities as fellow Humans and is a basic structural component of the hate which is Mankind's dominant behavior when viewing others outside of the 'patriotic sphere' and allows dominant parasites to unite their herds into pathologically aggressive mobs. And, although not generally perceived as such, RACISM is just 'racial patriotism'.

Programming our children to see their 'group' as superior to all others has been Mankind's curse for many thousands of years and is what is taking us firmly into the path of extinction. It blinds us to our common needs and interests in favor of the wants of those who control the 'patriotic' messaging, invariably the 'State', and invariably in the best interests of those who dominate the State but only rarely if at all the best interests of the victims of that programming doomed to perceive only themselves as 'important' and to have their behaviors directed by the poisonous values which 'patriotism' builds into their nascent perception. Teaching 'Patriotism' is child abuse, plain and simple, and should be considered such by any sane mind.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Learn history and love your country, but don't be loser nationalists.

Interesting how only Fascist and Communist states insist on teaching patriotism! China and NK being perfect examples...

And what about US nationalist??..

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Hell no! Far too many nutjobs in power here.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Patriotism doesn’t have to be taught in schools. Someone’s misguided ‘patriotism’(?) can be Pathetically, misappropriated while living amongst another culture. For example:

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

NO!

Interesting how only Fascist and Communist states insist on teaching patriotism! China and NK being perfect examples...

You obviously have never been to the U.S. or have spent too much time there.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

NO!

Interesting how only Fascist and Communist states insist on teaching patriotism! China and NK being perfect examples...

You obviously have bever been to the U.S. or have spent too much time there.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The question is a bit broad. We definitely should NOT have classes specifically devoted to the topic of "patriotism" in school curriculum because that really isn't education, its indoctrination.

That said, elements of what you could call "patriotism" or, in softer terms, "lets like various aspects of our country" appear in various other parts of curriculum and I don't think that's necessarily harmful. Subjects outside the hard sciences tend to be taught from a given nation's perspective in all countries - history, art, society, culture, etc.

Sometimes though I think this can be harmful if teaching patriotism itself becomes an end which teaching is viewed as trying to achieve. You can see this with the subject of history in particular. History education in Japan has been very controversial since the question of how much of Japan's wartime past should be included in it is something people rigorously disagree on. I think an honest attempt to teach Japan's history (and indeed any country's history) should not shy away from its negative aspects - particularly the wartime stuff - simply because scrubbing that stuff from the record means you aren't really teaching history, you are just trying to indoctrinate kids with a sense of patriotism under the guise of teaching them history. The study of history should be focused on an honest assessment of the past based on all evidence, good and bad.

But this isn't really unique to Japan, history curriculums in most countries also tend to provide kids with a very sanitized version of their own history (as a Canadian I recall our high school history textbooks not lingering too much on how our country ill- treated its First Nations people for example).

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Simple yes.

No patriotism in school means no way to reinforce a national ethnicity or culture.

Flag displays, pictures of heads of state, national holidays, team sports, all play a part of introducing some patriotic elements into the education system without relying on history books and test.

Now there is an argument for how much patriotism and what forms of patriotism should be taught in school, but that is not the current question being asked.

For those who voted no, I would like to remind them that most lower education, and their support systems like lunches and transportation, is subsidized or provided by local and national governments. The alternative to this is privately funded schooling, which is expensive, can exclude talent, and brings back the onset of class-based societies, and corporate funded schooling which has no one’s best interest other than profit and marketshare.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

How about teaching "Humanity" instead of flag waving idiocy?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

For those who voted no, I would like to remind them that most lower education, and their support systems like lunches and transportation, is subsidized or provided by local and national governments. The alternative to this is privately funded schooling, which is expensive, can exclude talent, and brings back the onset of class-based societies, and corporate funded schooling which has no one’s best interest other than profit and marketshare.

I'm not really sure I understand the point you are trying to make here.

The question of whether patriotism should be in school curricula is a completely separate issue from the question of how education should be funded (public vs. private).

There needn't be some sort of quid pro quo in which the state pays for public education in exchange for which it is allowed to use the education system to indoctrinate children with patriotism, which seems to be what you are implying. The state should pay for public education because education is something that benefits society as a whole, and we all have an interest in ensuring that the education provided is the best quality possible, which means having the best curricula possible.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

At what point does it cease to be teaching patriotism and become brain washing?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I'm not really sure I understand the point you are trying to make here.

I think you do, as stated later.

The question of whether patriotism should be in school curricula is a completely separate issue from the question of how education should be funded (public vs. private). 

As was answered with yes.

There needn't be some sort of quid pro quo in which the state pays for public education in exchange for which it is allowed to use the education system to indoctrinate children with patriotism, which seems to be what you are implying.

That’s an opinion on funding, not the question of patriotism, but I’ll respond. No organization is altruistic enough to donate all the resources needed to fund something like education and believe their entitled to insert some of their values into the curriculum. Nations/Governments call it patriotism, religious organizations call it faith.

The state should pay for public education because education is something that benefits society as a whole, and we all have an interest in ensuring that the education provided is the best quality possible, which means having the best curricula possible.

So now then we have to ask is patriotism beneficial for society, to which I argue yes. With out some level of patriotism you have no unifying concept of country or ethnicity, and a reduced appreciation for group accomplishments. Without education displays of patriotism, society opens itself up to personal interpretations of patriotism which can lead to forms of supported classism.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Nations/Governments call it patriotism, religious organizations call it faith.

I went to church schools til the age of 18, with Religious Instruction a standard part of the curriculum.

One of the reasons I'm an atheist.

The point being, that trying to teach 'faith', whether it's faith in the country/government (patriotism/nationalism) or any particular religion, isn't necessarily going to get you the result you are aiming for, and can even get you the exact opposite.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

That’s an opinion on funding, not the question of patriotism, but I’ll respond. 

Well yes, this is the part of your original argument that I didn't understand since you were tying this question (patriotism in the schools) directly to the question of how those schools are funded (privately or publicly). Why you support patriotism is fairly clear, but why you tie it to the public/private divide was less so.

No organization is altruistic enough to donate all the resources needed to fund something like education and believe their entitled to insert some of their values into the curriculum. Nations/Governments call it patriotism, religious organizations call it faith.

OK, but in a democratic system the government is using our money and is supposed to use it for the public good, yes? So its not like some private religious or business organization, this one is supposed to represent the interest of society as a whole and not the narrow self interest of whoever happens to be in charge of the government at a given time.

So now then we have to ask is patriotism beneficial for society, to which I argue yes. With out some level of patriotism you have no unifying concept of country or ethnicity, and a reduced appreciation for group accomplishments. Without education displays of patriotism, society opens itself up to personal interpretations of patriotism which can lead to forms of supported classism.

I understand the value of patriotism in the way you express it here, but I'm not sure that forcing it down children's throats in schools is the best way of achieving that. I'm not saying patriotism has zero place in schools but I would push back at emphasizing it in ways that detract from overall education. Especially if one is trying to tie it to ethnicity specifically which is exactly what I don't want my kids, who are bi-racial, being exposed to.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I went to church schools til the age of 18, with Religious Instruction a standard part of the curriculum.

One of the reasons I'm an atheist.

Same here.

I believing in teaching about religions in the same way as we should teach about the country we live in ( history, institutions etc. ).

Inculcating a love of a religious figure/religion or a country is an abuse of education, in the same way teaching a dislike of these things is.

Teach kids to think, not follow.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It depends. I don't think it's a bad idea to teach kids that they should love their country, I also don't think it's good to teach kids to hate their country, there needs to be a middle ground.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Difficult to love your country when you are poor, unemployed, homeless, a victim of racism,

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Yeah.... How dare you Japan.

How dare you teach kids Patriotism.

While America, Russia and Europe are full of Patriotism.

Have you seen SKoreans? Full of Patriotism. Teaching kids from early on to love Korea.

Been to America? Full of Patriotism. Ststues everywhere.

Been to Russia? 24/7 Patriotism. Statues everywhere.

Typical bias.... Japan can't do it, But Your Country Can.

Japan can't be patriotic but the rest of the world has no problem with it.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Keep fighting the future. Youre only making it worse on yourself.

Japan can't be patriotic but the rest of the world has no problem with it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

JimizoToday  05:42 pm JST

Same here. 

I believing in teaching about religions in the same way as we should teach about the country we live in ( history, institutions etc. ). 

Inculcating a love of a religious figure/religion or a country is an abuse of education, in the same way teaching a dislike of these things is. 

Teach kids to think, not follow.

100% agreed. If you give information about their country and they have been taught how to think, patriotism will arise organically or it won’t.

Teaching patriotism is indoctrination. Indoctrination leads to bad places.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

As long as it is not blind and all encompassing. You can learn about it and advise ways to be patriotic without going overboard. A little is fine. Too much is bad. Like most things in life it is about moderation.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

snowymountainhell

Great analysis.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I have no problem with patriotism, as long as it is not confused with nationalism. The oath which members of the SDF take is patriotic, unlike that pathetic "This is Japan".

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I'd like to see my own country introduce compulsory lessons in British classical Western liberalism, which is the founding idealogy of our country, so we can eliminate woke culture and show it to be the highly regressive, divisive and destructive force that it really is. But for that to happen you'd have to sack a solid percentage of teachers, which would be difficult considering in Aus, public schools are run by the states. Much easier to do it a university level, which is federally run. So be it.

Vast majority of Australians would celebrate a good clean out if recent polls are anything to go by.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Students of all countries should be taught at a very young age that their country and everything about it is wonderful and all other countries and people are terrible, smell funny and eat disgusting food.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Japanese patriotism is different. It's already taught in school. It's students learning how to be Japanese and how to live within the culture of Japan.

It's about considering your community, your culture. It's not indoctrinating kids to cry a tear at a song or for some colored cloth, like the west does.

And the word patriot has been twisted in the west. A part of patriotism is supporting and defending rights of a nation and its people. Anytime the word patriot is used in a law, or a bill or by a person in the west, you can bet someone is going to be taking away or limiting rights.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I think it's good to celebrate the accomplishments and positive points of your country, and even to take pride in it and teach patriotism in schools. But, it has to be truthful and balanced. Celebrate the accomplishments, but don't gloss over or ignore the failures. Teach the failures and ask the students about what can be learned from them. Also, look at other countries to see where they do well and don't. Patriotism turns toxic when it elevates one person or group over another, usually by burying the truth about how they are human too and have failed in the past.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ossan:

Where's here? Beijing? Cause it sure isn't Japan.

Any Chinese that finds themselves homeless can rest assured they can always live in your head rent-free.

I voted no, because, like America and China, it tends to lead to a sense of superiority and entitlement. Thank one of the gods that I grew up in a country where we don't have sing the national anthem every goddamn day and feel the need to stick a flag on every window.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Where do you draw the line between patriotism and nationalism. Do you think that the Nazis or Japanese imperialists in the 1930s did call their brand of ultranationalism anything else but patriotism. The insurrection on the capitol was invoked in the name of patriotism. One of the main reasons for Brexit was British nationalism. There plenty of other examples around the world. Patriotism and nationalism lead to self centered, irrational and destructive behaviour. Why do human beings need such a crutch, we should be beyond this tribal stage.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In teaching "patriotism" would we in fact by teaching nationalism? George Orwell made a distinction between the two. He saw patriotism as something non-aggressive and not needing to be shoved on anyone. To Orwell patriotism was a perfect pot of tea. Nationalism, on the other hand, he saw as something aggressive and totalitarian. The latter is what is forced on people, often with the fear of punishment. This is the sort of "patriotism" that one would expect in Japan's lockstep schools.

Bernard Crick wrote that when Orwell returned to English from India he "went native in his own country." My best Japanese friend was like that.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

in the 2021 international press freedom ranking Japan is at 67. This is not good. Because Japan’s press-freedom is so low I don’t think including patriotism in the school curriculum is a good idea because it will be used by the ruling party to stay in power. When the press freedom ranking improves then yes including patriotism could be a good thing. But you still need be careful of course.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What the schools would be teaching would certainly be teaching nationalism, not patriotism. What these nationalists (not patriots) will avoid is all the unpleasant and embarrassing realities of Japan that the LDP and its ilk have been hiding (or trying to hide) for years. Pearl Harbor has been an erased event for years. But that is only for starters. There is the murder and torture by the Japanese military in WWII and the Korean captivity under Imperial Japan. A good patriot would accept the truth; the nationalist would deny it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Deserves repetition:

SanjinosebleedOct. 13 10:49 am JST

How about teaching "Humanity" instead of flag waving idiocy?

And, as we examine the above discussion, we see one of the biggest problems with discussing ANY Human illness, the absolute idiosyncratic understandings, personal definitions, of the very terms of the discussion. And there was even a "woke" in there somewhere just enhancing the point.

All childhood 'education' is 'brainwashing', 'conditioning', 'programming', whatever term might be used to describe the formation of a functional 'citizen'. 'Patriotism' and 'nationalism' are no less poorly defined however detailed one may quote some 'Authority'. And our educational systems all create an 'identity' within the child and that 'identity' is almost always manipulable by those who rule the particular group and is designed to be. To change that it would be necessary to fundamentally change the very basic form of the universal hierarchical Human social structure of parasitic Rulers, their Sycophantic enforcers, and the parasitized herd fully indoctrinated to believe and obey their parasites. And our genepool has become accommodated to this pathology.

This social structure came upon us circa 70,000 years ago at the maximum of our species' cranial volume (~1500cc) and immediately began a shrinkage in that cranial volume down to today's

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, history yes. But definitely not patriotism!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

AS I WAS SAYING ABOVE REGARDING BOTH PATRIOTISM AND NATIONALISM:

down to today's less than ~1300cc average cranial volume, a loss of about 250,000 years of expansion in 70,000 years (see: Human cranial shrinkage, Human population bottleneck). It is this structure which is carrying us into extinction as though the Universe had a quality control feature on what sort of pathology it would allow to succeed. We are probably beyond being capable of saving our species. We are 'unique' in one way only as the only species on THIS planet which preys almost exclusively upon itself, and both 'patriotism' and 'nationalism' which include 'religionism' are the major facilitators of this diseased social structure.

Just sayin'...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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