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Do you think the U.S. missile strike against Syria was also a warning to North Korea?

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No. Kim Jong-Il and his coterie are far more politcally savvy than that collection of moronic Trumpsters.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

It's Trump trying to overcome his horrific unpopularity.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

No. More than anything it would have been diversionary tactics for his issues at home.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Both the current and previous US Administrations recognize the DPRK as the greatest security risk. This was definitely taking advantage of an opportunity to show the world that the US will not play any games.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Let's look at the facts. North Korea has refused to disarm in accordance with multiple UN security council resolutions because they claim the security council is powerless to guarantee their safety as long as one member, the US, is willing to violate international law by unilaterally striking countries without any UN authorisation. The only thing this illegal Syria strike has done is make North Korea's excuse look more credible. Trump is an idiot.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

First of all, I can't stand Trump. He is a moronic, demagogue. I doubt that he has the brain power to think that profoundly. He maybe a genius and corrupt business man, but he is a moron when it come to political policy.

@M2M3M3

North Korea has refused to disarm in accordance with multiple UN security council resolutions because they claim the security council is powerless to guarantee their safety as long as one member, the US

North Korea has refused and there is little doubt that they wouldn't refuse even if there wasn't a threat by the US. They are just using that as an excuse and will find another one, even if they are given guarantees that the US will not attack. And let's be honest, Kim is not going to give up power or change his brutal domestic policies or killings abroad of people who anger him. Like grandfather, like father, like son, one could say.

The UN is powerless and so are resolutions as long as China supports his little mafia based hold on North Korea and its poor population. Syria and North Korea are two separate issues and should not be confused. The attacks on Syria were a message that the US will involve itself if Assad continues to use chemical weapons. This is the only action that dumb, dumb Donald has done that I can half way agree with. There was a need to send a message to Assad.

The US has not attacked North Korea at all while North Korea has attacked its southern neighbor numerous times. So, what are we to do? Continue on with useless sanctions? And what happens when the North actually develops nuclear weapons? Go for MORE useless resolutions? Frankly the UN needs to grow a pair.

Yes, Trump is an idiot. But I do think this was the least he could do. If he didn't, people would be angry about how he has not done anything, so what should he have done?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

No.

They might perceive it as a threat, but I doubt it's intended to be.

I have to ask; Why would the US want to attack NK? And the answer is; I can't really think of a good reason at this point.

Do they genuinely want to liberate the long suffering people of NK from the oppression and madness of the Kim Dynasty? The answer is clearly no, they don't. If this were their motivation, they would have done it a long time ago, and they haven't. This has never been a genuine motivational factor for US military involvement in various parts of the world.

Is NK a genuine threat to the US? Clearly, no.

Is NK genuinely a threat to the immediate region? In a limited, short term sense, yes, but the combined militaries of South Korea, Japan and the US would completely dismantle it, and I am almost certain that China will not allow NK to draw it into conflict with the US and it's Allies. If it tries to, China will abandon it to isolation and it's fate.

The surest way to guarantee their downfall, if for the Kim family to do something stupid enough to prompt retaliation from the US. I very much doubt the chubby chap wants that to happen.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If it was, its not much of a warning. "Hey look North Korea, we can slightly damage little used airfields in a country with a military far far weaker than yours. So watch it."

Hardly going to ring terror into a regime that uses anti-aircraft guns to execute its own officials.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The UN reports have stated so many times the violations by Assad and the Syrian military, and all of the fighting groups and factions too. Putin uses the Russian might to protect and fight for Assad and has also used its UN veto seven times to block resolutions against Syria has China has also done.

Easy to forget why the civil war started and Assad could have prevented it from happening. In the end there are no winners in any war only losers.

Kim Jong-un was probably surprised maybe even a little shocked over Trump's missile attack and also the moving of an American fleet to near Korea but for the time being no change unless the Chinese can force his hand.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yes... it serves as a warning to North Korea. Because Obama tried to use diplomacy more than other presidents to resolve issues, many assumed that he was weak and unwilling to fufill the role of leader of the free world. Trump is a different can of worms. The attack by Trump annulled Obama's red line, and now Trump is sending navy ships into the Korean Peninsula. Let's see the chubby tyrant play with his fireworks now. The nihilistic side of me hopes North Korea keeps being provocative. I would love to see his whole country blown to smithereens. North Korea is bluffing. Their military is just show; they march like a military band more than an actual military; they haven't had any real combat experience since the Korean War. Propaganda and a warm, juicy steak alone would be enough to disarm them.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@sandiegoluv

North Korea has refused and there is little doubt that they wouldn't refuse even if there wasn't a threat by the US. They are just using that as an excuse and will find another one

I think that's a fair assessment, but Trump is also reinforcing North Korea's narrative with this illegal strike on Syria. The irony is something we shouldn't overlook. Trump is essentially saying, 'we must break international law to make sure others abide by it.' It's hypocritical nonsense in my opinion.

It's true that Russia and China often abuse their UN vetos, but in the case of Syria this is somewhat overstated. There have been unanimous resolutions condemning the possible use of chemical weapons (Resolution 2209) and demands that a ceasefire be implemented, international law be respected, and civilians not be targeted (Resolution 2254). Russia did not vetos these and they are the foundation of the current peace process. No resolution on Trump's strike was ever put before the security council so it's disingenuous for anyone to complain about the hypothetical use of a veto. The veto power is also part of the rules which America created and agreed to be bound by. Trump cannot just ignore the security council when it doesn't give him precisely what he wants. Trump can always withdraw from the UN if he has so much contempt for international law, but I don't think most reasonable Americans would support that.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Since 2012 there have been more than 300 UN resolutions on Syria. In the case of Syria "overstated" even though both Syria and Russia have violated them hundreds, thousands of times.

There will always be those who want to protect their own position while criticizing the other side. I did not say I supported the America missile strike but hoped at least it might end further use of chemical weapons. Personally I'm against all war even this one instigated by the actions of Assad and proper up by Putin. Putin has ignored the UN many times, do you need reminding.

Resolution 2209 (2015) voted 14 in favour, zero against, Venezuela abstention.

Further to today’s resolution, the Council recalled its decision that Syria should not use, develop, produce, otherwise acquire, stockpile or retain chemical weapons, or transfer them — directly or indirectly — to other States or non-State actors.  It reiterated that no party in the country should act as such.

Resolution 2209 and demands that a ceasefire be implemented, international law be respected,

Incorrect, that is not stated in Resolution 2209.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc11810.doc.htm

Resolution 2254(2015)

“10. Emphasizes the need for all parties in Syria to take confidence building measures to contribute to the viability of a political process and a lasting ceasefire, and calls on all states to use their influence with the government of Syria and the Syrian opposition to advance the peace process, confidence building measures and steps towards a ceasefire;

“13. Demands that all parties immediately cease any attacks against civilians and civilian objects as such, including attacks against medical facilities and personnel, and any indiscriminate use of weapons, including through shelling and aerial bombardment, welcomes the commitment by the ISSG to press the parties in this regard, and further demands that all parties immediately comply with their obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law and international human rights law as applicable;

Following the sarin gas Syria and Russia bombed the clinics treating victims, in the afternoon.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc12171.doc.htm

FEB 28. For the seventh time Russia and China doubled vetoed an UN Resolution on Syria, aimed at sanctioning the Syrian regime for using chemical weapons against its own population, in at least three attacks on its own population in 2014 and 2015.

In 2013, the Security Council unanimously banned Syria from possessing and using chemical weapons.

Putin prioritized protecting the Assad regime over protecting the Syrian people.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Mr Noidall

I don't want the whole country blown to smithereens. What can't be accurately gauged with NK is how loyal the people are to the Kim regime, or how many just can't see any other option when a gun is effectively at their temple all the time.

If it ever came to it, I would like to see surgical strikes that target the inner sanctum of the regime and cut the head off the snake. At that time, you might see a great deal of people simply confused and scared as to how free they have actually become, and what happens next.

At that point, you would need a highly mobilized and coordinated UN task force to immediately step in to allow a democratic transition and to squash any parties like the army from trying to fill the vacuum. The problem with aforementioned solution is the UN part, imo. Because they are spectacularly useless.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I don't think Trump thinks that far ahead.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Tamarama

You're right. Surgical strikes. I'm just frustrated by the North Korean news agency constantly boasting about how they could wipe out cities on the continental U.S. Sometimes you just want to call there bluff. That's all. My dream would be for the North Korean people themselves to string up the fat boy the way the Italians did Mussolini.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

My dream would be for the North Korean people themselves to string up the fat boy the way the Italians did Mussolini.

The Syrian civil war because of protests against Assad

5 ( +5 / -0 )

My dream would be for the North Korean people themselves to string up the fat boy the way the Italians did Mussolini.

That's the problems with revolutions - they don't always work. The consequences... look at Syria.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Some people may find the stalemate in the UN Security Council frustrating, but they need to remember why it exists and how the system is designed to work.

The security council is a venue for preventing conflicts and de-escalating tensions before they get out of hand. The veto is often criticised, but some countries already hold a virtual veto even without the security council. China has the power to frustrate any attempt to topple North Korea if it is ready to funnel enough weapons and supplies to Kim Jong Un. Likewise, Putin can keep Assad in power indefinetly if he decides to lend Syria sophisticated Russian equipment or even nuclear weapons. This virtual 'military veto' in addition to the 'peaceful veto' in the security council has to be considered. These countries have enough military power to raise the stakes so high that any conflict between them would be an unmitigated disaster for all of humanity. Any conflict between these powers would likely result in a stalemate that would have the same effect as a veto in the security council, but far more deadly.

So the question for reasonable people is this: Do we allow these powerful nations to excercise a peaceful veto by raising their hands around a table at the United Nations, or do we wait until a war has already started to discover whether these countries will excercise their military veto on the battlefield? The security council is like a window into the future that tells us how motivated these countries will be if we were to go to war. The council is actually saving countless lives even when draft resolutions are being vetoed and nothing is agreed. Unfortunately, images of living people who might otherwise be dead do not make for compelling news.

Since 2012 there have been more than 300 UN resolutions on Syria.

Can I ask where the 300 number come from? The security council has passed a total of approximately 300 resolutions on every imaginable topic since 2012. As far as resolutions directly related to Syria, there have been 13 (by my count). There have been 6 draft resolutions vetoed (7 if you include one in 2011).

Incorrect, that is not stated in Resolution 2209.

I didn't actually say it was in 2209. I think I said it was found in the language of 2254, which you have pasted.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Since 2012 there have been more than 300 UN resolutions on Syria.

Yes my mistake not that numbers matter if both Putin and Assad are going to violate them. You mention the violations by America, several times without any mention of violations by Putin and Assad.

The council is actually saving countless lives even when draft resolutions are being vetoed and nothing is agreed.

Just not in Syria or the Ukraine.

Yes Putin the champion of human rights and freedom.

Vladimir Putin (ex KGB officer) called the American Syria missile strike illegal. For years, Putin has been crackdown on his own civil society. Putin and the Panama Papers. His unknown personal wealth is estimated $40-$200 billion most of it hidden with proxies like ownership of his luxury yacht and huge mansion on the Black Sea.

Putin removed the freedoms of the Russian people by introducing laws making it harder for people to assemble and publish internet criticism and carry out political or human rights advocacy. Increased fines for protesters caught participating in unauthorized demonstrations multiple times a year to between 600,000 and 1 million rubles ($17,124-$28,540 at the time). Opposition killed and murdered.

Also outlawed homosexuality and LGBT.

Putin air strikes in Syria have killed civilians which is denied by him. He persistently blocked Security Council action to curb violations by the Syrian government, including its use of barrel bombs in civilian areas.

The UN has condemned Russia's "temporary occupation" of Crimea and accused it of multiple human rights abuses in the region.

A fact check on Putin’s 2015 UN speech.

http://www.stopfake.org/en/fact-checking-vladimir-putin-s-speech-at-the-un/

Since Trump has become President this year Putin has increased his military actions on the Ukraine Russian border. In one single day, ceasefire monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, or OSCE, tallied 2,260 “ceasefire violations”

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You mention the violations by America, several times without any mention of violations by Putin and Assad.

That's a very fair point. I can see how I might be coming across as a bit of a hypocrite but it's not intentional.

Unfortunately, enforcement has always been the biggest problem when it comes to international law. Public condemnation and moral shaming are some of the only tools we have, but these only work on states that still have some shred of dignity and sense of shame left. Assad is certainly no saint and I would like to see him answer for crimes committed during the civil war. But that will be for a competent tribunal to decide, not a man directing missile strikes from his private golf club in Florida. Putin is the poster child for violations of international law, a truly despicable and shameless man (as you have illustrated). No doubt about it in my mind.

On a personal note, for what it's worth, I was a strong (almost fervent) supporter of the Iraq invasion in 2003. I was outraged by Saddam Hussein, his regime, and the human rights abuses that were taking place in Iraq. I advocated for the war to anybody who would listen. We were going to bring peace and democracy to the middle east through the ballot box and Iraq was going to be a shining beacon for the world. I now feel responsible for the hundreds of thosands (possibly millions) of nameless and faceless people who's lives were cut short, many (or most) of whom surely would have prefered to be alive today even if it was under the regime. I can completely understand why people support and oppose this Syria strike. Morally, there are no right or wrong answers. Even the legal answers are shades of grey, so I don't judge anbody. I'm still outraged by what I see, but I now firmly support leaving these matters to international institutions simply because too much is at stake to leave these decisions to the whims of a handful of people guided less by reason and more by urgency and emotion (like I was in 2003).

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

M3M3M3

I have already stated several times I have no sides in the Syria civil war except that of peace, fair and free elections and democracy. I have ever supported any war by whoever. I am more Gandhi than Che Guevara.

Yes I think you are a hypocrite and your comments does nothing to change that view.

With human rights violations at the heart of the Syrian crisis, the UN has called for an immediate end to violence; release of political prisoners; impartial investigations to end impunity, ensure accountability and bring perpetrators to justice; and reparations for the victims.

On the Responsibility to Protect (R2P) doctrine, the international community has an obligation to intervene in Syria to protect civilian lives.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

With human rights violations at the heart of the Syrian crisis,

Violations that, unfortunately, have absolutely no enforcement mechanism under international law. The security council veto overrides the responsibility to protect. It gives no authority for a unilateral strike. We have to operate in the framework that exists.

Yes I think you are a hypocrite and your comments does nothing to change that view.

How charitable of you.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

M3M3M3

I'm still outraged by what I see, but I now firmly support leaving these matters to international institutions simply because too much is at stake to leave these decisions to the whims of a handful of people guided less by reason and more by urgency and emotion (like I was in 2003).

I'm pretty much the opposite of you, M3. I have long been very, very opposed to the US involvement in the Middle East, because I have only ever felt it has to do with hegemony, power and wealth. I have never once believed it has anything to do with humanitarian principles. For example, I remember watching 9/11 on TV, and knowing exactly why it was happening. I remember seeing New Yorkers looking confused and bewildered and asking 'Why us?', and I remember thinking that they had to be joking - and I don't mean that callously, but you just knew that given the history of US involvement and interfering in the Middle East, that a radical, militant arm of some organisation from across the Middle East was highly likely involved. The response? More Military incursions into Iraq and Afghanistan. Exactly the wrong response, on absolutely false pretences.

In Syria's case now, well, the world has sat by and done nothing. The International organisations of which you speak have arranged no end to the conflict, stopped no killing, proved themselves ineffectual. I absolutely don't trust the US interest in Syria. There is no question they are trying to arrange a solution that will work favourably for themselves first and foremost. I have no doubt about that - that's what they do.

BUT, in this case, I am glad they have done something in response to (yet another) shocking act by Assad. And surely someone has to step in for the people who can't defend themselves from this madness.

I've been through Syria. It was a wonderful country with truly fantastic people. Incredible. Damascus was a great city. What's happened there is truly horrible.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

In what sense you are comparing Syria with N Korea ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Maybe it wasn't on purpose, but I'm sure little Big Phat Boi took notice. There are still plenty of evil dictators causing havoc on their own people: Venezuela, Cuba still, North Korea, China still (and maybe the communists in China have killed more people than any other evil dictatorship in history, just since 1949!), not much freedom of expression still in Russia, Syria, etc., etc., plenty of places I would not want to live. Would any of you want to have to live in any of these and other socialistic/communist places? No sankyu.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You can say that such a mentally challenged move was a warning to the humanity itself, telling it that evolution might have gone backwards.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Theodore Wirth

Kim Jong-Il and his coterie are far more politcally savvy...

But aren't they dead already?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, it's not. Let's take it through two alternatives:

If Trump is smart (I know, I know, just run with me on this): he knows North Korea is far more able to fight back against US interests and poses far more of a risk to actual American lives than Syria. Calling an attack on an essentially defenseless power who was even warned ahead of time to reduce the damage a warning to a far more powerful enemy would be ridiculous, and hypothetical smart-Trump would know that.

If Trump is not smart: He probably isn't thinking through his belligerence beyond anything more than how he momentarily looks to people back home. When exactly has Trump ever shown us he cares what foreign leaders think of him?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yes. It is a warning to the whole world except possibly the US. It warns the world that Trump is dangerous, America is dangerous, nowhere in the world is safe with his finger over the nuclear button.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Throughout the Syrian conflict, the US has been "accidentally" aiding ISIS and the other terrorists. This latest attack is just more of the same.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I dont think Trump considered the impact the missile would have on NK at all. That's expecting far too much. More likely it was an attempt to appear as if he were distancing himself from the Russians. Having said that, some analysts claim that the Syria strike did make an impression on the N. Koreans. If so, I think it would have been unintentional on Trump's part-as that would have required an adeptness and knowledge of geopolitics that is not consistent with what can only be considered as an accidental presidency.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No, it was because Ivanka cried when she saw pictures of dead babies (according to brother Eric).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, it was a jerk reaction by yet another man-boy US president out to make himself look big and battle low poll numbers.

I've just realised why they call it a 'jerk' reaction....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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