Should U.S. Osprey aircraft be deployed in Okinawa?

I say station them there. That way when one crashes the Okinawans will have something new to complain about. Right now they're still going on about the helicopter crashing into a school all those years ago. Even though no one was in the school at the time and no one was seriously injured.

No aircraft should be taking off and landing in the middle of a built up area. Osprey or anything else.

And I have severe doubts about the politicians, sitting safely in their air conditioned offices thousands of kilometers away in Tokyo and Washington who suggested that this unsafe aircraft be deployed there.

I wonder what kind of an agenda they have.

It's high time the US military closed its bases in Okinawa.

They just get in the way.

They are not needed and not wanted.

Economically Okinawa would be much better off without them.

The land that the US seized to use for its Futenma base consisted of the settlements of Aniya, Aragusuku, Futenma, Ginowan, Isa, Kamiyama, Kiyuna, Mashiki, Oyama and Uchidomari and had a population of approximately 13,000. These settlements were surrounded by, and depended on, some of the most fertile agricultural land in Okinawa.

The Americans bulldozed the area, often at gun point, destroying houses, farms and historical monuments to make way for Futenma auxiliary airstrip.

There are still Okinawans who remember this. The survivors passed the stories on.

Can you really be surprised when the suggestion to deploy an aircraft with a poor service record is made?

Futenma should be closed. Not added to.

If Japan buys these dangerous, flying coffins, then whatever happens to the people flying them is on the conscience of government officials. There are several alternatives such as attack helicopters to these useless flying machines. They were designed to transport. Transport what and to where? Close the base, and send the Yanks home NOW.

Deploy them over populated areas in NY and LA for about 5 years and ask those citizens if they are in favor.

If so then let them continue to fly them over those areas. Let them crash and burn for all I care. But not here!

Should U.S. Osprey aircraft be deployed in Okinawa?

Why ask me? Ask the people those bases are supposedly protecting!

Looks to me like they don't want it. So I voted no in their stead.

Maybe when the U.S. military comes clean about this year's two crashes, they will change their mind? Can you imagine if Toyota just said "We can't tell you why our cars crashed, but we assure they safe NOW!" Toyota sales would plummet. Well, so has good feelings for the Osprey. Its real easy to understand if your agenda is not yanking your brain around.

The places that used to be US bases in Okinawa that were handed back to their rightful owners are making BIG money.

Here're a couple: Shintoshin - you probably wouldn't know it, it's part of a small town called Naha just south of Kinser on Rte 58, Hamby town - near Foster.

Okinawa is LOSING money by hosting US military bases.

Deploying Osprey in Futenma will push down land prices there!

Who wants to live in a place with that kind of thing flying over your head?

No American would tolerate it.

Why do you expect Okinawans to?

"No aircraft should be taking off and landing in the middle of a built-up area"

Oh, well, better close Narita Airport then, lol.

The osprey's have a pretty good overall saftey record, way better than the units they're replacing, so I don't see why this is a problem.

No American would tolerate it.

They do all the time. My primary residence is in a Detroit suburb that built up around an airforce base (sound familiar), yeah its loud but its no different than living near an airport. If they were conducting live fire exercises maybe it would be a problem but they don't so it isn't.

If so then let them continue to fly them over those areas. Let them crash and burn for all I care. But not here!

The city built towards the airforce base to profit off of the airmen stationed there. Originally the base was a fair distance away from the city. That said there are a number of US cities with similar problems but they deal with it in a rational manner with a level of respect.

Futenma will never close as long as the Okinawans keep stalling the transfer. Keep up the crying and it will never happen! As far as sending the "yanks go home now" comments, seems pretty delusional. Anyone who thinks that the immediate pull out of US forces from Okinawa would be a good thing for the economy are solely mistaken. Yes it might bounce back after 5 or 10 years, but I would be surprised if it ever did. Okinawans like to waste the land when the US gives it back, building useless things like pachinko parlors and Aeon shopping centers. Things that bring nothing but low paying jobs and other mainland businesses that send the money they earn back to mainland. Then there is the whole national security thing, but I'm going to ignore that because the "yanks go home" crowd seem to enjoy ignoring that little fact too.

If you didn't want to deal with an airstrip then you shouldn't have moved near one. Sure if you lived there already I could understand. Unfortunately, the majority of the protesters either don't live there (naicha protesters) or moved in after the fact.

The places that used to be US bases in Okinawa that were handed back to their rightful owners are making BIG money.

Here're a couple: Shintoshin - you probably wouldn't know it, it's part of a small town called Naha just south of Kinser on Rte 58, Hamby town - near Foster.

Are you being facetious? I know where Shintoshin is, I have relatives who live there (CEO type, that's the only type that can afford to live there). It is a nice area but there are quite a few upscale houses and apartments that sit empty because your average Okinawan can't afford them. What else is in that area? Shopping centers and bars, that's about it. Guess what is around most military installations on Okinawa? Shopping centers and bars, seems like no change to me. At least the over priced housing around the bases has people living in it while the over priced housing in Shintoshin just sits vacant. Hamby Town? Big portion of the Hamby Town population is American military families who pump money into the local economy. Other then that, just another over priced tourist area offering nothing but low paying jobs for the most part. But while we're on the subject, what about the area across route 58 from American Village/Hamby Town/Sunabe (past Kadena but before Lester)? That land was given back quite some time ago yet it still sits vacant.

Okinawa is LOSING money by hosting US military bases.

How so? Land owners are getting a check and the military members spend their money on the local economy. Bases provide some pretty comfy jobs, better then what most would be making if they turned the base into another Shintoshin or American Village. Also, let's not forget that a lot of the "tourist" areas on island are owned and operated by mainland companies. Mainland companies tend to invest their money in mainland, not Okinawa.

Deploying Osprey in Futenma will push down land prices there!

How so? Ginowan's land isn't the most pricey on the island. It would take quite a bit of money to bulldoze all the dilapidated buildings and turn it into American Village V2. Guess who would profit the most from that? Not to mention, when they do finally move the Marines up to Henoko guess what will probably happen to Futenma? Demolished? Hardly, it would probably become a JSDF air field. There is one of those down in Naha, Naha seems to do fine with it there. But I guess it's only an issue if the air field is run by the "oppressor" of the "peaceful" Okinawan people amiright?

Who wants to live in a place with that kind of thing flying over your head?

Quite a few residents of Ginowan apparently.

No American would tolerate it.

Except the millions who do live near military air fields in the states and deal with it.

Why do you expect Okinawans to?

Most Okinawans I talk to either don't care or don't care enough to do anything about it. The biggest protesters are from the mainland who have something to gain by giving back the land to the Okinawans. So they can buy that land off those naive Okinawans who are no longer receiving a government check for their land and turn it into something that offers mostly low paying jobs while sending the profits back to mainland. Well, I guess expats with too much time on their hands would also like to see it returned.

All "gaijin go home" rhetoric aside, there are benefits from having Futenma there. Even if you're too blind to see it.

Deploy just one, ok? :D

That way Shintaro Ishihara will feel that this island is being taken care of, and won't start a collection effort to help him buy Okinawa as well...

I'd be willing to bet that if the Japanese Self Defense forces took over Futenma and had helicopters and other aircraft constantly landing and taking off there, the people in the area wouldn't tolerate that either.

Futenma is too built up to have a landing strip.

Of course, the fact of Futenma being occupied by foreign military doesn't help. I don't think they are seen as an "oppressor" as Mr Jez says, but they are not Japanese and they carry a lot of gun power.

Is it difficult to see why US forces are not welcome on this small island?

Again, if there were JSD forces in the same numbers, there would be protests.

As it is, there is so much bad feeling building up about Futenma and the Ospreys, that, in the end, Tokyo is going to have to listen and do something. Okinawans have put up with foreign military for far too long.

I'd be willing to bet that if the Japanese Self Defense forces took over Futenma and had helicopters and other aircraft constantly landing and taking off there, the people in the area wouldn't tolerate that either.

Maybe, However, lots of people tolerate this very thing in other parts of Japan.

So every time a town builds up around an airfield then airfield should be the one to pack up and move? Some fuzzy logic right there.

So every time a town builds up around an airfield then airfield should be the one to pack up and move?

Its not just an airfield. Its a massive chunk of land appropriated by a foreign military whom the people all expected to leave eventually.

If the bases were reduced to just an airfield the towns would be a good distance away. And its not like they had the space to build the other direction. Its not like Okinawa is a continent either. The bases need to go. They are massive wastes of space in a land with much too little flat land to go around.

Cue music...American Woman! Stay away from me hee. American Woman! Momma let me be hee. I don't need your WAR MACHINES!

Song is from 1970. But it rings true in relation to the Osprey deployment.

I agree that there need to be less bases on Okinawa. They share too much of a burden of the US presences in Japan. However, what about moving them up to mainland? Never would happen, the naicha already pushed the burden off to the Okinawans. Sorry but they'll never leave completely as long as Japan doesn't have a real military.

A. No

the naicha already pushed the burden off to the Okinawans.

I think its more like the Americans simply had flattened towns to build on in Okinawa, already had a build up of forces there, and occupied Okinawa longer, and that is why so many more bases are there. And since most people don't want a foreign base in their town, they don't get moved. The Okinawans just got stuck with the short end of the stick.

And why don't people want a foreign base in town? Because they have to fight tooth and nail just to keep certain aircraft out! It seems pretty obvious the don't want they Osprey, but the discussion just goes on and on and on and on. It should have been a simple "Oh you don't want it?" and end of discussion. Instead we get Osprey crammed down our throats. Even if the Osprey isn't allowed, this whole debate has gone on far too long, and its exhausting and annoying.

I say station them there. That way when one crashes the Okinawans will have something new to complain about. Right now they're still going on about the helicopter crashing into a school all those years ago. Even though no one was in the school at the time and no one was seriously injured.

I'd say they would be justified to complain. So what if the school was empty... it could just as easily have been a school day.

Oh, and I voted no.

close the bases and open more karaoke rooms!!!! and my answer is no.

I think its more like the Americans simply had flattened towns to build on in Okinawa, already had a build up of forces there, and occupied Okinawa longer, and that is why so many more bases are there. And since most people don't want a foreign base in their town, they don't get moved. The Okinawans just got stuck with the short end of the stick.

Flattened towns? Where did this happen? Or just more anti-base rhetoric? Kadena was already an air field and Futenma was farm fields, hardly flattened a town for those. Schwab and Hansen were jungle, the others I'm not too sure but I bet it's safe to say no major towns were "flattened". Also, all buzz words aside, the US presence in Okinawa today is hardly an "occupation". I also disagree with your "most people don't want a foreign base in their town". Most people as in who? Expats who think they speak for all of the Okinawans? I've said it before, any Okinawan I've ever brought the subject up to is either apathetic towards the issue or don't care enough to even do something. While the vast majority realize that the US bases in Japan are a necessary evil.

And why don't people want a foreign base in town? Because they have to fight tooth and nail just to keep certain aircraft out! It seems pretty obvious the don't want they Osprey, but the discussion just goes on and on and on and on. It should have been a simple "Oh you don't want it?" and end of discussion. Instead we get Osprey crammed down our throats. Even if the Osprey isn't allowed, this whole debate has gone on far too long, and its exhausting and annoying.

Once again, who doesn't want the Osprey? The protesters that get flown in from mainland? Expats with too much time on their hands? It's not that simple, they have national security to keep in mind when they make these kinds of decisions. Unfortunately a vocal minority won't get their way, no matter how many buzz words they use.

Better get used to this debate, it will go on for the foreseeable future. When they first decided to move Futenma back in 2006 and agreed to move it up to Henoko I said that it would probably never move due to the BS back wards politics that run rampant on Okinawa. So far my prediction has come true. They've been talking about moving it for over a decade before the 2006 agreement.

People "fighting on behalf of Okinawans" fail to see that Okinawan soil is also Japanese soil... So what Japan as a whole says is pertinent to Japanese safety as a whole, is going to happen. I understand the Okinawan people not being overly satisfied with the military being there, they also need to understand that the military being there protects an entire nation, not just their island. If you want a voice, send it to Tokyo; YOUR NATIONS Capital. There are millions of people throughout the rest of the country that need to be thought about as well.

The MV-22s being stationed there is doing Futenma a favor. The Chinnoks have a worse crash rate than ANY V-22, save from test phase. The Chinnoks fall from the sky with mechanical failures more than the MV-22 with any failure; pilot or mechanical.

but they are not Japanese and they carry a lot of gun power

And the logic in that lies where? Italy, Turkey, Spain, Germany, UK, Austraila, Philiphines, ETC don't seem to have that issue/worry. Has the U.S. Military used any of that non-Japanese gun power to attack the Japanese since WWII? Thought not...

They were designed to transport. Transport what and to where?

Troops and supplies to forward locations. One of the main reasons Okinawa has such a military burden is the strategic location to potential and perceived threats and adversaries. So again, it's the Nation's safety that is being addressed here. A lot of people keep referencing Japanese, that's exactly the thought you should be leaning one. JAPANESE, not so heavily on OKINAWAN. Tokyo, Japan sees this arrangement as benificial to the JAPANESE people, Okinawans need to see that as well.

Flattened towns? Where did this happen? Or just more anti-base rhetoric?

I don't think anyone has given you mere rhetoric. You do however dish it out.

I did not mean that towns were flattened just to build bases. Towns were flattened during the Battle of Okinawa, and having those flattened towns, they became convenient places to build bases.

So back to rhetoric. You tell us so much about other bases, but get Futenma 90 percent wrong? Right. I don't think its ignorance and I don't think its apathy. Its just plain old arrogance. Futenma is built over parts of 5 towns which were FLATTENED, one of them completely with Futenma built over its entirety. Hint: An entire town CANNOT be farmland! Much of that land belongs to people who never got a chance to rebuild their houses. And yes, also to farmers who wanted to continue to farm, ON THEIR OWN LAND.

Kadena was just a small airfield when it was captured, and it has been greatly expanded by the U.S. since then. I don't know whose land its built on, but I bet its somebody's. Clear information about how and when it was expanded is very sparse. But you just mutter something about it already being an airfield and casually move on. You have no shame.

I've said it before, any Okinawan I've ever brought the subject up to is either apathetic towards the issue or don't care enough to even do something.

Again, arrogance and no shame. That does not make a thing right. Besides, its not even true! Now you act like there have not been any protests!

The protesters that get flown in from mainland?

Disingenuous to the last! The number of casual unsubstantiated convenient statements you make is puke inspiring!

Better get used to this debate, it will go on for the foreseeable future.

Yes, until people get violent, the only language people like you understand. Until they have a gun to your head, you will claim they didn't care and did nothing.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/5000-rally-in-ginowan-against-osprey-deployment

5,000 rallied against the Osprey. Of course Jez will say it was but a tiny fraction of the city, as if any protest against something as simple as one aircraft could conjure so many people on a Sunday, as if nobody has anything else to do!

I tell you what Stephen, show me the numbers of counter-protestors, because if people did not stand up in favor or the Osprey, then they just don't care enough to have it! 1 million, 10 million or even 100 million apathetics is NOTHING in the face of 5000 strongly against!

They don't want the damned Osprey, and they don't want any more arrogance of the type that hides the reasons why they crash either!

Expats with too much time on their hands?

Says the guy with more posts than anyone, spread out over three days, including the very first post here! Disingenuous again! Arrogance again!

I don't know if you are an expat or a grunt, but I have to wonder if your crap and your barbs are born of some sort of self-interest in the Osprey deployment.

Whatever Futenma was in the past is not particularly relevant to the situation right now.

Nor is the suggested deployment of Ospreys.

People who live here do NOT want Ospreys. They don't want a US base in Futenma.

Naha has been expanding steadily since the 60's. It basically doesn't have anywhere to spread to except Futenma/GInowan.

Why is it so built up?

Because it was promised that Futenma would be returned to Okinawa by 2003.

This hasn't happened yet.

Atsugi is closing in 2014 because of complaints by local residents.

Like Atsugi, Futenma/GInowan residents resent the presence of a large foreign military force on their land.

US bases are an anachronism. They are out of time.

Time to go, guys!

Bye!

You're seriously going to bring up the protests up? The one's organized (for the most part) and filled with mainland people?

As far as the farmers go, you do know that quite a few of them are still allowed to farm their own land on the bases right? They're also the last people who want the bases returned because they get a nice fat check from the GOJ every year. But mainland companies (same one's who furnish the protesters) want them to lose their land because they know that as soon as they lose their paycheck, they'll be itching to sell their land. These are also the same protesters who bought tiny slivers (less then a tsubo) of land from the land owners after the bases were built so they could "have a say" in the base issue.

I had a nice long reply written out but it's a moot point. We're going to have to just agree to disagree since all you can seem to throw at me is talking points, like the typical anit-US everything protesters on Okinawa who constantly talk circles around themselves.

PS: Okinawans won't get violent, they're too apathetic towards the issue. Now, when does your student visa expire so you can head back to Canada/Europe?

I can tel you've never been to the protests have you? They get paid you know? They also offer free booze and food afterwards. That would get me out the door on a sunday too :D

PPS: The numbers of most protests are hyper-inflated. I remember them claiming 90,000 at once single protests back in 2008. Real numbers were more like around 8000-9000, which is a decent number, but an example of how the facts tend to get twisted in this issue.

Whatever Futenma was in the past is not particularly relevant to the situation right now.

I think its extremely relevant. It gives an idea of just how massive some of these bases are and it shows why people are outraged about the bases and how that outrage can carry over to something like the Osprey deployment.

I agree with all else you wrote though.

The real question is weather you do or do not support the US military presence in Okinawa. And to what degree.

It is a real shame to see such a low-level of commentary on such an important issue.

It really doesn't matter at all that Osprey are safe craft or not. Okinawan people don't want them on their land, so the US must listen to them and should not deploy such aircraft there. Japanese government is so coward that it can't say Japan doesn't want it, probably because there is US-Japan security. The US still can deploy regular helicopters in there instead of Osprey. I wonder Osprey are such important aircraft for Okinawa base. It seems that Okinawans do not say anything if regular helicopters come there. The recent Osprey accidents are too much for them because residences are too close to the bases.

Absolutely not.

Do any of you really understand the Osprey? I'm seeing all the comments from you civilians that don't understand the mission of the V-22 or the fact that it has a better testing record than the CH-46 which it will be replacing. I'm not going to sit here and glorify the Osprey to people who are biased against it but I have been working on this aircraft for 8 years now and will be stationed on Futenma with VMM-265 and just want to say that I feel 100% safe flying in the aircraft. There have been many more fixed wing accidents than Osprey, especially if you look at each aircraft's test phases. All aircraft have accidents, regardless of model or origin. As for the local population not wanting the Americans there, I respect their views but will easily go on doing my job working on these aircraft everyday.

I say no. Maybe let the okinawans decide what they want.

what about the area across route 58 from American Village/Hamby Town/Sunabe (past Kadena but before Lester)? That land was given back quite some time ago yet it still sits vacant.

FYI there is an archaeological dig going on in that area. The Japanese government takes ANY potential archaeological sites quite seriously and they can and do delay development because of them.

Once again, who doesn't want the Osprey? The protesters that get flown in from mainland? Expats with too much time on their hands? It's not that simple, they have national security to keep in mind when they make these kinds of decisions. Unfortunately a vocal minority won't get their way, no matter how many buzz words they use.

Ask this question again after August 5th or so and you'll get a better answer. Yes there are plenty that dont want it here, because all they ever hear is what problems it has. The media is controlled that way here in Okinawa as to prevent anything positive from ever being heard about.

That's the way the game is here, and the US and Japanese governments should fight fire with fire but sadly they don't.