Which side is most to blame for escalating tension between Japan and China?

What a question.... Ever heard the name Ishihara before?

The U.S.A.

Japan should not have fallen into Ishihara's trap. But China is to blame for harming relations. The islands have been part of Japan for 100+ years, and the full legal opinion of the U.S. and the Allies is that they are part of Japan, hence they were returned to Japan along with Okinawa. Do no legal issues related to WWII matter at all simply because China and Korea did not sign the Treaty of San Francisco?

Ishihara definitely caused the initial escalation (in this current round of disputes), however the Japanese government did try to prevent him from causing that escalation. China further escalated by refusing to acknowledge the efforts of the Japanese government.

It's ridiculous that 'both nations are equally to blame' and as such the question BEGS right wingers (on both sides of the sea) to 'choose their favourite'.

Since it is as such, though, anyone voting for China seems to want to conveniently forget the current tensions were caused ENTIRELY by Ishihara in April of last year. Had he and Japan not done what they had done, things would not be as they are. So, the answer is quite simple. Since then it's been a game of tit-for-tat, with China being more physically aggressive while Japan admits it is weaker and uses other nations to try and isolate China, while using the white-washing, war-criminal shrines, and history denial cards back home to make their Asian neighbours upset while claiming it is going about domestic business.

The US handed the islands legally over the Japanese. China has no legal claim.

It would be like Irish Americans going to Ireland and claiming it to be their island because hundreds of hears ago their people lived there. If we use that logic to claim lands and territories no country or space on earth would be uncontested. It is bone headed, brain damaged thinking to believe you can execute a claim against a place just because once upon a time it was your's.

The islands have not been in Chinese hands for ever, if they were actually ever in Chinese hands.

China is proving to be an enemy of common sense and stability in Asia. This is not only about China/Japan, the Chinese are doing the same thing all across Asia and using their exports and their military to bully other states.

All other Asian states should form a mutual protection treaty to contain China. And they should do it now. Backing each other up will contain China. Especially since Japan and the Philippines have American protection behind them too.

It would be like Irish Americans going to Ireland and claiming it to be their island because hundreds of hears ago their people lived there.

Not really, tkoind, unless you're telling us Ireland is uninhabited.

tkoind: "China is proving to be an enemy of common sense and stability in Asia."

Substitute 'China' for 'Japan' and you can argue the same thing. I mean, Russia and China get along; South Korea and China are enjoying great trade, etc. Who is the only one with beefs with them all? Which country is trying, and failing, to get 'All other Asian nations to form a mutual protection treaty to contain China' because they see China as a threat and provoke them as such?

"It would be like Irish Americans going to Ireland and claiming it to be their island because hundreds of hears ago their people lived there."

This isn't the first time you've brought up this bizarre comparison, not the first time it's been pointed out as bizarre and way off base, as Nessie has pointed out.

Anyway, Japan can try all it wants to alienate China while the rest of the world, including the US (which Japan is depending on for protection), enjoy trade with them.

The best question should be ..."which country in asia is the most troublesome in the present time?"

Answer: China

reason: They started all these disputes in the islands in both sides of their country(south and east). When you look at it, they played this game very well. First, send their fishermen to some country's EEZ, then when they get caught, they send their coast guard. Then their government would say "We own the sea, so why are you arresting our fishermen?"...

Well, it all started just like that. And now, it's their reason for doing military drills.... what a shameless act of attrition to their neighbors.

Nessie, inhabited or not does not matter. It is about territorial claims which are not now nor ever have been limited to occupied places. Do expand your view here. Resources are as valid as places to live. Access and control over water ways has ALWAYS been a key motivator for territorial control as long as there have been people to make claims.

Everyone knows who is the trouble maker in asia today, It's CHINA.either in India,Vietnam,or Philippines.Communist China is the cancer of the world today,They are Thieves The only way to stop them is to cut-off their feet and hands,so that they can;t move anymore.Countries that is bullied by this thieves should unite when they attack one of these countries. Mistakes of the western world was when they move their industries to China nad China copied all their products which Cina now manufactured and sell it to the world at a cheap price until they make monet and now they can afford to buy all kinds of miltary equipment from Russia. To put China back to his feet, All the freedom loving people of the world shall boycott all china made products.

Japan grabbed the islands as 'spoils of war' after the victory over China in 1895...they belong to China... the islands Russia claims belong to them near Hokkaido really belong to Japan.

tkoind2

It would be like Irish Americans going to Ireland and claiming it to be their island

Well, not really.

A lot of people live in Ireland - both North (part of U.K.) and South (independent). There is a very well established culture there, they have their own language, literature, food and music going back thousands of years.

As far as I know there is none of the above on the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands.

Stay on topic please.

The Answer should be Japan.

whatever the government and Ishihara, they are all Japanese for outside countries, for this there are no difference. It is like a family, we can call the family a doctor family whatever the farther is a doctor or the son, they are the same family for other families. These islands are handed by the USA to Japan not the Unite Nation, actually these islands were not belong to the USA, if we replace these islands with hawaii that will be legal, but not London or other places that not territories of the USA. 3.Indeed these islands were belong to Japan after the Sina-Japanese war. But the evidences China provided are earlier than Japan's, it's 600 years ago. Abviously there are disputes or at lease disagreements. It's lucky to see China want to negotiate on this. By saying this, China had kicked the ball to Japan before the people of world.

Let me enlighten your logic a little bit IRobin.

Again, Answer to this poll is China. 1.) Japan got those islands when they attacked China back in world war II. 2.) Japan got attacked by US and lost. 3.) China was a loser and always been a loser, DID NOTHING BACK THEN when world war II ended. 4.) Since China did not complain nor do anything to get those islands back, US gave those islands to Japan, United Nation is not needed here, definitely because it was the US that dropped 2 atom bombs and ended the war with Japan. 5.) Historical claim before the war is plain idiotic at this rate.. why? Because you did nothing in those 600 years back LOL.(don't make me laugh) ...Right now, what the world sees is that... China just came out to start trouble to expand its territory because they think it's the time. Unfortunately, the world wont allow that to happen.

This battle with the islands is both crucial to all Asian countries and to all countries in the UN. Why? If they follow China's claim, UN will become an obsolete organization and might end up disbanding slowly. That is why US and all countries in the UN can't leave Japan/PH/Vietnam (and all countries where China has dispute with) nor can accept to China's made-up historical claim. And by the way, I was wondering what kind of "negotiating" you are saying that China is doing. Like Everything is mine, let's discuss what's yours later? or Let me buy your land? - Btw, China never did suggest any negotiating.. EVER.

I hoped i helped your cute brain understand a little bit of what is going on Irobin.

@Alejandro Dela Cruz, I just love the peace, and I think it is no need to walk into war again, because China will never stop this. As per your logic these islands are gotten by war, they are the results of war. The USA won the war so then the islands belonged to the US at that moment, so no UN need there. right? So all is because of the war, what if China says "I will get them back by war again, because the Japanese said it can be the results of the war"? what if the Russa said "We no need to hand over the four islands because this is the result of the war" , do you like this kinds of situations? How can I fight back with Russians? The WAR became the only approach?

@Alejandro Dela Cruz, For thousands of years China was the great country in the world, but not recent two centuries, and Japan defeat it when it was weak instead of helping it. Chinese consider this as a blood feud. There is an old say in China "Revenge is a dish that should be eaten cold". For this I can see no solution to this dispute except war ! Does these islands really worthy of it?

In the absence of a "both are as bad as each other" option, I'm going with Japan. Not out of genuine belief that Japan is more to blame, but do balance out the foaming screams of the borderline racist Japano-nationalists on this side, who aren't content with merely backing Japan's position, but want to make out like "Communist China" is some kind of unique existential threat. Christ, it's like the Cold War never ended.

Anyhow, they're both as bad as each other.

China has pointlessly and recklessly upped the ante with its bellicose rhetoric, government sanctioned anti-Japanese riots, and incursions into Japanese territory. Each time they do this, they alarm the United States and every Western country that has favourable links with Japan, and a lot of people are pretty terrified that this is going to end in blood and tears. The incursions with military vessels need to stop. The grievance needs to be taken to the ICJ and the UN; it needs to extend the olive branch. If it does this, and Abe refuses and maintains his hard-line stance, it will be Japan in the wrong.

Equally, Japan is to blame. First, it was old Blinky Ishihara who forced this to a head with his goal to goad Japan and buy up the islands (with Tokyo taxpayers' money to boot). This forced the Japanese government's hand*. However, Japan has been appalling at communicating this to China, merely saying "we're transferring our property between private and public hands". Denying that there is a dispute, and that the islands are just Japanese, period, is frankly ignorant of history and entirely self-unreflecting. Those islands were originally seized in the Japanese imperialist land grab of the late 19th Century, and returned to Japan by an American occupation authority. Of course they see it as an illegitimate claim, just as they see every Unequal Treaty as retroactively illegitimate! And right they are.

Then of course we have Abe's quixotic nationalist crusade, using the islands as a rallying cry for more pointless militaristic nationalism and to further his goal of stealthily returning Japan to the early Showa period. As part of this, he makes half-baked and irresponsible statements and threats, that further inflames the already hostile situation. He asks for negotiations, but denies that there's anything to negotiate.

All in all, it's one big mess of nationalist lunatics on both sides pushing their people closer and closer to a very destructive war over a few piddly rocks, for the benefit of their own political agenda. What. A. Mess.

Everyone knows who is the trouble maker in asia today, It's CHINA.either in India,Vietnam,or Philippines.Communist China is the cancer of the world today,They are Thieves The only way to stop them is to cut-off their feet and hands,so that they can;t move anymore.Countries that is bullied by this thieves should unite when they attack one of these countries. Mistakes of the western world was when they move their industries to China nad China copied all their products which Cina now manufactured and sell it to the world at a cheap price until they make monet and now they can afford to buy all kinds of miltary equipment from Russia. To put China back to his feet, All the freedom loving people of the world shall boycott all china made products.

If I see a lunatic uyoku adolescent playing with a machete in public, I'll know it's you and that you've finally cracked. Seek help for your pathological hatred of Chinese people and your violent urges. I implore you.

China fights with everyone around it (and plenty far away also). Still has a chip on its shoulder going back to the First Opium war and all the humiliations heaped on it until Mao arrived.

China sent the captain of a fishing boat to collide with a Japanese Coast Guard vessel. The captain had to get really drunk before summoning up the courage to make the hit. He became a hero back home and refused to turn up for his eventual trial. Japan was powerless to do anything, and worse, looked it.

Ishihara reacted by deciding to buy the islands off their private owner. The Japanese government decided to buy them to keep Tokyo from doing so, in the vain hope that China might overlook Ishihara's move.

IRobinFeb. 11, 2013 - 09:13PM JST For thousands of years China was the great country in the world, but not recent two centuries, and Japan defeat it when it was weak instead of helping it. Chinese consider this as a blood feud. There is an old say in China "Revenge is a dish that should be eaten cold".

My suggestion is to research the history of "China" a little better. Firstly, "China" is a historical fiction. One should rather specify WHICH China. Are you talking about Han, Zhou, Qin, or 3 kingdoms China? The shape alters radically, and at some stages "China" was actually just a colony of Mongolia (Yuan dynasty).

Furthermore, the aggression between "China" and Japan stretches back as far as 663AD (the Battle of Baekgang). There really is no good reason why Japan should have helped China then, and certainly not now.

For this I can see no solution to this dispute except war ! Does these islands really worthy of it?

No solution? Why doesn't China just drop the issue in one of its convenient bouts of amnesia? In case you haven't noticed, China does this reasonably frequently when it can't get its way. It pretends the entire thing didn't happen, instructs the state media to ban all discussion of the issue, and "forgets" the incident. Inconvenient bits of history as recent as a decade ago have been "forgotten" in China, which is why the Chinese government is so terrified of its citizens doing something as simple as browsing an article on Wikipedia.

I asked some Chinese people and some Japanese people about this a while back.

All the Chinese said the Japanese are to blame, and all the Japanese said the Chinese are to blame.

Smith

Since it is as such, though, anyone voting for China seems to want to conveniently forget the current tensions were caused ENTIRELY by Ishihara in April of last year.

So I assume you didn't vote, seeing there is no box for 'Ishihara'.

Let me ask you this. Had the government not intervened and let the islands fall into the Tokyo govenor's hands, where do you imagine we might be now?

Your one eyed anti-Japan rants are becoming pretty repetitive. You seem to be losing objectivity. These islands, whether you like it or not, are Japanese territory after all.

It's no use to crying over a spilled milk.

@Frungy, All your accusations about China at least 60% are wrong. If we post this to the international webside, will make others think that Japanese are so pathologically hate Chinese, this is no good for Japanese.

@Frungy, these irrelevant to the disputes of islands also.

The J-Government did the right thing by buying these islands, and so preventing Ishihara from building a police station or something on the islands, which would really have been a change of the status quo. J-gov buying the island was in itself NOT a change of status quo, just a change of ownership.

The Chinese know this, and they could have stuck with the usual diplomatic protest. They did not, and escalated the situation at every turn since.

I have read almost all the comments, here are several flaws of our logic that need to refine.

whatever the government and Ishihara, they are all Japanese for outside countries. it is stupid to distinguish Ishihara and the Japan government before other counties. because it is more like a trick in the eyes of other countries. So it harms Japanese reputation. 2.The territory claims against China and Russa are conflictive to each other. If the Senkaku Islands are the results of the war, the northern four islands will lost, because they are the result of the war too. Such a big confliction makes Japanese unreasonble. We should choose the better logic. Chinese keep saying that the US never claims that they are the owner of the Senkaku Islands nor Ryukyu islands, let alone Japan, so it is illegal to hand them over to Japanese. We should fix upper three logic to convince Chinese ,especially the whole world.

Any better explaination will be welcome.

whatever the government and Ishihara, they are all Japanese for outside countries. it is stupid to distinguish Ishihara and the Japan government before other counties. because it is more like a trick in the eyes of other countries. So it harms Japanese reputation.

It is equally stupid to paint Ishihara and Japanese government as though it's the same. The guy actually even detests LDP as given by his recent session questionnaire in the Diet.

2.The territory claims against China and Russa are conflictive to each other. If the Senkaku Islands are the results of the war, the northern four islands will lost, because they are the result of the war too. Such a big confliction makes Japanese unreasonble. We should choose the better logic

The Senkaku's were incorporated prior to Treaty of Shimonoseki. This was address numerous times on other articles.

Chinese keep saying that the US never claims that they are the owner of the Senkaku Islands nor Ryukyu islands, let alone Japan, so it is illegal to hand them over to Japanese.

Nope. Read the Agreement Between the United States of America and Japan Concerning the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands. They use the word "reversion".

We should fix upper three logic to convince Chinese ,especially the whole world.

Convincing the above to a fairly educated Chinese is easy. It's convincing the Chinese government to disseminate the said information to the rest of the uncivilized population is a whole different thing.

@nigelboy, Thank you very much for your advice. For question 1, I think you still dont get its meaning, the meaning is whatever you say the government and Ishihara have no different for other nations, they only would like to say that it is a pity that Ishihara is a Japanese.

For question 2, the Treaty of Shimonoseki is to old, If according to that treaty, we should claim the east parts of China also which were also items in it. There is other treaty between now and then, such as Potsdam Proclamation, at least all the counties that involved attended that meeting. Few people in the world agrees to the Treaty of Shimonoseki except Japanese. This would be a stupid thing in the eyes of others.

and also you didnt answer the question 2 about the claim of Russa -- the big conflication.

For question 3,even the US stated that the reversion is only the right of administration, but not the ownership. How to understand this?

This quite the "chicken or egg" question!

@ishiwara

THAT is an excellent summary of what happened.

@IRobin

The Japanese don't pathologically hate the "Chinese". The people of Taiwan are also Chinese and the people of Japan and Taiwan generally have cordial relations. A lot of Japanese like and respect Chinese culture. But they are understandably concerned by the actions of the Chinese government.

If Japan had a larger navy and started sending ships to "contest" some islands off mainland China, how would the people there feel? Outraged? Worried? Don't confuse this with some outdated idea that Japanese hate China. In recent years there has been a lot of mutual admiration between Japan, China and South Korea as we can see from the music and movies/television shows from one country proving popular in the other countries. If the Chinese armed forces stop their harassment, things will get better.

You talk about peace. How about China trying panda diplomacy again? The steady stream of ships and planes are just confirming fears that China is a bully that takes things by force.

@ ReformedBasherFeb, Very good! I totally agree with you!

Following are the opinions that collected from the news papers of China mailand:

China has to expand her navy, because the US frequently sent his aircraft to the nearest places of China, such as the Yellow sea(by doing this, half of the mainland can be spied on), sent his battleplanes to the border of Fujian province and made the plane crash, disturb her cargo ships in the sea, rose the price of mineral randomly to damage the economy of China. These happened frequently in the years of 2010 and 2011, 1997, 1998. They outraged worried at those moments.

2.Especially about those islands disputes , they had highly believed that Japanese are unreasonalble and hard to discuss with,actually the three questions about conflictions I listed upper by Feb. 13, 2013 - 01:17PM JST were rose by them .

It is no use to blame to each other instead of tring to understand each other, I just listed the opinions of both sides and left them to be discussed by all the people of Japanese , Chinese , and the other nations of the world. I think this will be helpful.

No nation can be bluffed back!

Only love is the most great power.

N.Kerea is a lively instance. The more pressure added to it, the worser the situation will be.

Can't we have a third option -- Neither, but both countries need to grow up

Can't we have a third option -- Neither, but both countries need to grow up

No, there shouldn't be option, it is already presumed in Japan(today) that China is to be blamed.

It is obviously China. Japanese actions are simply defensive and justified.

I blame the belief that the islands have oil deposits. Where there is money to be made, governments will flock. It won't matter to them who's right or wrong.

Both sides Are Wrong. Both sides . Should Give The islands To the people living on them . Thus avoiding conflict from both sides . The real story is about, minerals oil, gas fish under the sea in this area that is why both countries are going to have conflict some time in the future if they dont forget the past and look for a future of peace with each country helping each other when they have problems.

Ron - Your solution would be too simple. China and Japan need a way more complicated solution.