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Who do you think was behind the sinking of a South Korean warship on March 26?

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"The United States" has some votes. Talk about paranoid...

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I can guess who put in that 1 vote.

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loads of Yank haters in Japan...

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thats not me btw.

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Palin

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yes. musta been america trying to get itself into a 3rd war. jeez! i think they have enough on their plate at the moment. how about china & japan on the list?

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I'm not a true believer in the NK "stealth fleet" or their supposed Gundams. =Seems like another Ponzi war scam to me.

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Ask yourself who, or what countries businesses, have the most to gain from the destruction of Seoul and the Korean economy...

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WHY IS NOT JAPAN ON THIS LIST???????

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I see the U.S. gets 14%, ha ha ha!

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guest - See "Other."

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Is other China?

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Having read the usual intelligent comments here I have started looking further afield. Now if China gets caught up in protecting NK against SK and the US, then Taiwan might well feel some relief. Taiwan have the hardware. Taiwan and SK have friendly relations, however, so I can't believe they would willingly kill SK sailors for political ends. Mossad? Hmmm...

NK had already publicly vowed retaliation for last year's naval clash (where they came off worse), so they had the motivation and the verbalization. Maybe they should keep their mouth shut sometimes.

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Kind of sucks, I really don't know on this atm so I went with other. The investigators say its NK, but what are the benefits for NK to start a war? China behind the strings maybe? dunno.

lol @ conspiracy theorists. Once the US is gone I wonder who they'll blame next?

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Wait, why the US? Why not China? They seem much more likely to be involved then the US would be. Does the US even have ships in the neighborhood? China sure as heck does. The inclusion of the US simply makes no sense. Even President Odumbo wouldn't order a strike on a SK ship.

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41% of people blamed the United States for torpedoing a ship of one of its allies? That basically means that 41% of people who post on here are clinically insane.

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I find amazing that some people can believe that the Obama administration can kill sailors of an ally of the US. What is so difficult to believe that Kim can do something as despicable as an sneak attack?

Example A: Blowing the Korean Air Flight 858, the surviving perpetrator reckoned that it was an order from Kim and even writed a book.

Example B: Kidnaped South Korean actress Choi Eun-hee and her film-director husband Shin Sang-ok for producing propaganda films that glorified Kim Il Sung and his son, Kim Jong Il. The couple escaped to South Korea in 1986.

Example C: The abductions of Japanese citizens from Japan by agents of the North Korean government happened during a period of six years from 1977 to 1983. The North Korean government has officially admitted abducting 13 Japanese citizens.

Elvis bizarre records make him a prime suspect, even without the evidence that ROK collected and analized a time long enough and with an international team that give credibility to their conclusions.

NK dont need high tech for do an ambush, time for make preparations can replace the lack of equipment. The "stealth fleet" is a bunch of old submarines and mini-subs that focuse on surprise attacks and covert operations, they know well the aerea where they operate, the coast of the korean peninsula.

P.S. "Why is not Japan in the list", the DPJ? A pacifist country with a more diplomatic administration? With that line of thinking "why the martians are not in the list to?".

Sorry for the rant.

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What does Japan (SK and/or PRC) possibly gain by doing such a thing? The US may gain some lead way with the base problem but I do not think they are that desperate. Japan would probably bow accepting Henoko and the US knows this.

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What does Japan (SK and/or PRC) possibly gain by doing such a thing?

Japan has everything to gain, while SK and PRC everything to lose.

The capital city of Seoul is also the country's largest city and chief industrial center. According to 2005 census, Seoul had a population of 9.8 million inhabitants. The Seoul National Capital Area has 24.5 million inhabitants making it the world's second largest metropolitan area.

The KTX-II developed by South Korea is the world's fourth high-speed train to exceed the 350km/h mark.

South Korea is the world's largest shipbuilder, and the fifth largest automobile maker in the world. It is Asia's largest exporter of oil products.

Its capital, Seoul, is consistently placed among the world's top ten financial and commercial cities and was named the world's sixth most economically powerful city by Forbes with a GDP per capita of $32,171 in 2008

South Korea is ranked first in the world in the Digital Opportunity Index, and first among major economies in the Global Innovation Index. The Digital Media City in Seoul is the first high-tech complex in the world for digital technologies and a test-bed for new futuristic concepts such as ubiquitous computing.

In consumer electronics, South Korea is the world's largest LCD, OLED, CRT and plasma display maker. The South Korean companies Samsung and LG are among the top three manufacturers of televisions and mobile phones. Samsung is currently the world's most valued consumer electronics brand****

Construction of South Korea's largest airport, Incheon International Airport, was completed in 2001. By 2007, the airport was serving 30 million passengers a year.[114] The airport has been selected as the "Best Airport Worldwide" for four consecutive years since 2005 by Airports Council International.

WHAT IS NOT TO LIKE FOR JAPAN IF SEOUL IS DESTROYED BY WAR?

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This is classic. They find the torpedo. It's from North Korea. There was a North Korean sub nearby. And some idiots still think the US did it. Some people still think the US didn't go to the moon although they could look in a high powered telescope and see the flag up there now. For some reason, I never read these knuckleheads saying China didn't go to space or Japan didn't launch a rocket. But the US didn't do this or that. Illogical people would blame the US for Genghis Khan's rampage if the US was around back then. The truth is, North Korea and Kim Jong Ill is a serious hazard. It's time to get serious about this maniac.

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This is classic. They find the torpedo. It's from North Korea. There was a North Korean sub nearby. And some idiots still think the US did it.

As of my post 55% do. Laughable.

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41% of people blamed the United States for torpedoing a ship of one of its allies? That basically means that 41% of people who post on here are clinically insane.

that about sums it up mate.

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@ mechadamuramu at 03:46 AM JST - 23rd May

"The United States" has some votes. Talk about paranoid...

@ Sarge at 09:40 AM JST - 23rd May

I see the U.S. gets 14%, ha ha ha!

I am not sure if you are able to correctly read the poll numbers. The United States does not have "some" or "14%". It is now up to 53% of the votes, and that percentage has been steadily climbing. Apparently from this poll,a majority of people believe that the U.S. has reclaimed its position as a world leader.

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There are only two groups who would suddenly vote en bloc like this for the US being involved.

1 The young gaijin community around Tokyo Facebooking each other for a laugh. This would account for the sudden spike this afternoon.

2 Deadly serious supporters of NK who wish to see the NK story backed up by 'world opinion'.

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Why would the U.S. do such thing like that? Giving up their status as "world leader" and besides that NK has always been a huge enemie so I think they are suspect number one...

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Could be a bunch of expat Iranians. Could be any number of people who neither favor nor trust the U.S.--a number growing every day and for good reason. Could the U.S. be involved? Gulf of Tonkin, WMDs in Iraq, etc.

I would say in this particular incident, probably not. But I would never put anything past the U.S.

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60% here think the US did that? Good grief, the conspiracy nuts are running rampant on JT.

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...not only in Japan by the way.

But i think also JT is at fault : why put United States in that question ?

China i couds understand...

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ahaha...looks at those anti-US votes!

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First, let's get this out of the way.

The KTX-II developed by South Korea is the world's fourth high-speed train to exceed the 350km/h mark.

I rode the KTX in 2004 from Busan to Seoul. It took 2 h 50 min. You could drive to Seoul faster than that train could take you. (I very much doubt that the KTX-II will go as fast as 350 km/h, but you never know.)

Secondly, I voted for the US as a joke because the CIA has a long history of orchestrating regime change and destabilizing countries that don't do whatever corporate America wants. I didn't know NK had any material resources that Uncle Sam wants, but they overthrew the regime of Salvador Allende in September 1973 because Pepsi wanted cheap sugar for its pop, so nothing is beyond the scope of its tyranny. (SOURCE: The Trial of Henry Kissinger by Christopher Hitchens.)

Thirdly, why isn't Japan on the list? Have they no submarines?

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It seems the majority of people here believe the US was reponsible for this outrage - and if true - we may see the downfall of the Obama regime? Impeachment anyone?

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I am not a fan of this or any other American administration, but anybody who seriously thinks that this crime was perpurtrated by the Americans is soft in the head in a fairly major way.

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This poll (as it stands now) indicates wide support for the facts in this ongoing intriguing international ‘game’ that looks like it was taken from a “007” Spy movie!

Obviously, on March 26, the United States (in conjunction with their new Asian friend China) used some explosive device to sink the South Korean ship. Immediately, the finger pointing started and North Korea was blamed.

Thus, on April 20, a North Korean submarine fired a torpedo which caused a massive explosion at the Deepwater Horizon BP oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico. Subsequently, the submarine was positioned under the platform and then self-destructed causing a second, more massive explosion, sinking the platform, a fitting retaliatory action for the U.S. trying to blame N.K. for the S.K.ship sinking.

The U.S. was able to retrieve ‘parts’ from this torpedo which sank the BP oil platform and have used that as evidence that North Korea sunk the South Korean ship. The submarine debris on the Gulf floor would have been visible, thus the ‘live feed video’ of the leak was delayed many weeks until the debris was cleared away.

The U.S. was able to seal off that area in the Gulf by setting up “oil booms” to keep the floating debris from the destroyed submarine in the area so that the media would not find it. The U.S. gov’t has now permitted the oil to continue leaking to hide any remaining evidence and divert attention from the cause of the disaster. Otherwise, it could be determined that the U.S. was caught off-guard by the NK sub in the Gulf and its actions. But the U.S. cannot acknowledge that they jeopardized the security of the U.S. mainland by failing to realize the NK submarine was in the Gulf area.

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Back to S.K.ship sinking: The U.S. wanted to impress upon the Japanese government the need for keeping marines and military bases in Okinawa. The U.S. then sunk the S.K ship on make the East Asia zone appear to be unstable and in danger. However, that was not enough to pressure the Japanese gov’t to the U.S. demands. Thus, at the Nuclear Security Summit in D.C. on April 12-13, Pres. Obama asked the Chinese Premiere to send a few ships and helicopters close to Okinawa to cause scare and alarm (this was done in mid April). So with tensions and concerns rising for the countries in the area, Japan was left with no other option but permit the Futenma base be relocated within Okinawa. Sect. State Hillary Clinton arrived late last week, and gave a very‘friendly’ reception to the proposed base accord, but at the same time again reminding Japan that there are indeed many threats in the area (reference to the ship sinking). And then off she flew to China, to personally thank them for helping resolve the Futenma issue and assist the U.S. in ensuring that Japan will do what the U.S. wants them to do.

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How on earth does the US actually sink the SK Patrol Ship? AFAIK the US Nuclear Sub Fleet is not capable of operating in coastal waters - which includes the area where the SK ship went down.

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islandview: I believe your story except for the BP rig part. This rig failed because the gas retaining stop ring got ripped (made of rubber) and the other safety constrictor (mechanical) had a malfunction on the one side. =gasses were able to come thru the pipe with no containment. Gas filled the platform and a ignition source ignited the methane. +a the shutoff didn't work either. =3 levels of failures in a row that should have not happened.

I still believe it will be up to the populace to rid Japan of these military bases. The politicians are not mentally strong enough to continue on. Everyone wants these bases gone, but the politicians know it is political suicide. If Hatoyama would drop out of politics and lead the charge he could be a hero if the people would get behind him.

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This is way evryone thinks the PM is loopy you all think the US did it. Japan is loopy. The list should have been:

North Korea China Russia Other

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I expect that all the NK expats running pachinko parlors have received a call from the dear little pipsqueak saying "go to the JT website and vote that the US sank that SK ship or your mum gets it." Thus the large number of votes for the US as the culprit.

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Based on track record alone, North Korea has to be firmly in the frame for this one.

Furthermore, with regard to the high US vote, I would suggest that everyone just take it for what it is, a large number of sheeple who like to take the pxss out of people.

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The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany, according to Reuters.

Funny that the story is changing just as the UN is really getting interested in the evidence. Which of the countries above use German torpedoes? How about Dolphin class subs? Would they fit the bill? Just wondering!

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Anything is possible where all these nations are concerned due to their track record.

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North Korea is 'testing' Pres. Obama, and his abilities to work with U.S. allies Japan, S. Korea and the new kid China.

Or perhaps this is just another U.S. CIA-generated incident to back the 'need' for U.S. military bases in Japan.

The 'evidence' of that torpedo can be fabricated very easily. Even the surviving crew said there was nothing on sonar to indicate a nearby sub or incoming torpedo.

No matter how you voted on this poll or posted comments, it appears that the JT Moderation Policy now permits insults and offensive terms. People that voted for United States were called various names in the comments: 1) paranoid 2) clinically insane 3) idiots 4) nuts 5) soft in the head (is that really intended to mean retarded?). But you would have to be crazy to believe those that posted the names really meant those words to be insulting or offensive.

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Funny that the story is changing just as the UN is really getting interested in the evidence. Which of the countries above use German torpedoes? How about Dolphin class subs? Would they fit the bill? Just wondering!

With all due respect can I call your attention to some facts?

SEOUL Thu May 6, 2010 10:19pm EDT - Reuters

The team of South Korean and foreign investigators found traces of explosives used in torpedoes on several parts of the sunken ship as well as pieces of composite metal used in such weapons, South Korea's Yonhap news agency said quoting a senior government official.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6460FC20100507

Seoul 2010/05/07 14:00 KST - Yonhap news

Investigators are also looking into the possibility that a German-made torpedo might have been used, potentially a move by North Korea to disguise the attack, as South Korea uses German torpedoes. Foreign specialists from the United States, Sweden, Australia and Britain have joined South Korea's investigation into the sinking, as Seoul has sought to ensure the probe is transparent and objective. After the investigation is complete, South Korea could invite experts from China and Russia, countries close to North Korea, to provide them with a first-hand look at the ship's wreckage, Defense Ministry spokesman Won Tae-jae said.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2010/05/07/2/0301000000AEN20100507005400315F.HTML

The key point is the dates. Today is may 24 after the ending of the investigation, that was mentioned in May 7 and 6 on the begining of the investigation, these is not new for people following the news closely as the south koreans do and the ROK gobernament taked many steps for be transparent with the investigation from the begining. It dont look to me like the story changed just when the Un get interested, the investigation concluded that the torpedo was made in North Korea. I dont read any news about experts from the investigation team going back and saying that the torpedo was made in Germany.

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PeaceWarrior,

to add to what Mareo2 said - how would you expect an Israeli Dolphin class submarine to get to Korea? It's a long journey for a coastal submarine!

How do you expect the crew to stay silent? Their families?

Why would the Israelis waste one of their newest subs on such a plan when they need them far closer to home?

If you can give good answers to those questions then you may be onto something.

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I see North Korea has retaken the lead. Apparently earlier it was N.Korea 46% , S.Korea 1% and the U.S. 48%, according to Japanprobe.

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May I ask the ever-present moderator what was the motivation in JT running this "poll", considering that NO other news source (to my knowledge, at least) has suggested any nation other than the DPRK is likely responsible?

Moderator: For editorial inquiries, please contact the editor at editor@japantoday.com.

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The US maintains stocks of foreign weapons for black ops such as the sinking of the Cheonan. There are clear examples of this in the open such as Mig and Sukhoi fighters based in Nevada to help train US pilots. Other weapons include Russian surface to air missiles and supersonic anti-ship missiles such as the Sunburn.

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Knowing what little we know, it is as crazy to say the United States had nothing to do with it as to insist that they had. The question is simply not answerable at this time. It is also quite possible it was China or even Russia.

It is also crazy to try to and sum it all up by asking what X country had to gain. Its not that simple for several reasons. Chief among them is the simple fact that countries are not masses of people of one mind. A covert operation is not something that is voted on or known about at every level of government. It makes no sense to say America did it, because if some group in the U.S. government or military arranged it, let me assure you they never asked me if it was in my best interest! They NEVER do. Another reason its not that simple is that a group may benefit immensely even if their country falls into shambles. Not everyone is a patriot. Plenty of people would gladly sell out their country for money or glory. Plenty would massacre their own countrymen for the same. And one more thing is that people have reasons that not everyone can understand. Why did the IJA attack Pearl Harbor? Honor? Revenge? To buy time? Everybody has a different answer that question. Why did the Israeli IDF attack the U.S.S. Liberty? That is a mixed bag too. And everybody will have a different answer as why any group would sink that S.K. ship.

The U.S. has a long history of subterfuge and covert operations. It does not make the U.S. guilty, but its crazy to rule out the idea that some American group might be behind this. And America is hardly alone in that, but consider the fact that the U.S. spends about the same amount on military spending as all other countries of the world combined! Nine times more than China!(read that again) The question is: What isn't America capable of? Its also true that the U.S. has quite a military presence in both S.K. and Japan, very far afield. And a possible reason for the attack is to justify that presence. Come on, America did not get nor keep bases around the world by being Mr. Swell Guy! So no, its not wild at all to think some U.S. group responsible. Its just that it is pre-mature without more evidence.

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I also voted for America as a joke, because it's outrageously ridiculous that they were included in the poll as a choice. It seems that a secondary benefit of this joke are the JT commenters who are foaming at the mouth that "so many people could be so stupid to think that the US would be behind such a crime". Really? It didn't occur to you that the vast majority of voters are joking?

I do agree that China and Japan would be great additions to the poll choices and would enhance the entertaining conspiracy theories immensely.

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I see that Dr. Evil wasn't an option...

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"43% The United States"

As Jack Nicholson would say, this is funny. That's what this is.

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Since the results of this poll do not reflect well on this site and its readers, I'd like to make clear that I voted North Korea.

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shayouzoku said: It didn't occur to you that the vast majority of voters are joking?

You can only speak for yourself. But since this is not a joke site, I have serious doubts the vast majority were joking.

There should indeed be more options, but saying there is no way the U.S. had anything to do with it is most likely the result of brainwashing from so many years of saying the Pledge of Allegence. That and a complete ignorance of history.

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I agree with shayouzoku in that a good many people took this whole issue cavalierly; my suggestion would have been to add Switzerland or Niger to the list, as it is always fun to see a land-locked country get blamed for an incident at sea. My beef is simply with whomever dreamt up this "poll". Hey, I love Jon Stewart as much as anyone, but he doesn't hide the fact that he's doing fake news -- in fact, he takes the real news organizations to task for behaving foolishly. As far as I can tell, JT is not doing itself any favors by running an opinion "poll" such as this without first offering a news story that suggests any other country besides the DPRK was responsible.

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Newsman

I suspect that what is upsetting you and a few other posters is the high rate of respondents who feel the U.S. (read "good guys") is somehow behind the sinking. We can't rely on news organizations to give us the truth anyway.

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If the team of experts from 5 free& democratic countries, after long ,meticulous investigation concluded that it was NK.. then if it was not ghosts who did it, it must be NK. I think that people who voted for US just want things to happen that way, the way they like.

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LOL The nutjobs that picked the U.S. only did it to get people on here all riled up.

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tclh said: If the team of experts from 5 free& democratic countries, after long ,meticulous investigation concluded that it was NK.

They didn't. They concluded that the torpedo was made in North Korea. If a murder is committed with a Smith and Wesson, I hate to brake it to you, but there is still a chance Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson didn't do it.

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This can get very serious. NK is threathing to react with war any move done by SK, US, Japan ,UN.

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Why on earth is ANYONE dignifying this???

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I think New Zealand did it.

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Just a speculation, but before this anouncement, Kim was in Beijing..to do what? It was very likely that Kim did tell Hu the truth to get China support...it could be just firing by accident(???) from a NK sub. That is why China has said " it was unfortunate...".

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The North Koreans couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a slingshot at two meters, so it couldn't have been them.

The question is, what in the world would the U.S. gain (or anyone else for that matter) by creating a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident?

North Korea's got nothing but poor people. Maybe they have some secret oil that nobody knows about...

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Since we are all experts on this sort of thing lets just randomly hit a button. what kind of poll is this? IF the poll read "who do you want to have sunk the South Korean Ship" that would have made more sense. I think Japan did it. I saw this once is a game. Japan starts a war close to its borders so it can build up its military and ratify their constitution and start military build up.

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OK ,how about a conspiracy theory along this line: China supplied the submarine, NK contributed the weapon and sailors. NK sank SK ship then went to China for celebration on their military superiority and the vulnerability of the West.

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Japan and Taiwan need to be listed as a part of this conspiracy too. While you're at it, add three or four defense contractors, Russian covert operatives, and the Mountain Master of the Triads.

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With all due respect can I call your attention to some facts?

You are right! I just checked the date of the article and it was indeed on the 6th. Point well taken.

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It's a long journey for a coastal submarine!

You are right. I've checked and rechecked and it would be an incredible achievement for them to do so, akin to a "dokodemo" door. Most of the subs belonging to the country you mentioned don't have AIP systems so it's pretty tough to do that. It might be different if they did have an AIP system, going through Suez but it'd still be a hell of a long ride.

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Peacewarrior, a midget submarine can travel easily from one coast to any other in the world. The first sighting of the Japanese at Pearl Harbor before the attack was one of their midget subs. How do you think it got there? It came by mother-ship, just like most midget subs operate from. You can stick one in the cargo hold of a many a civilian vessel too.

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It was Iran. They want to engage the US at the other side of the world :-)

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Thanks MistWizard, I did not know that.

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On a more serious level, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the South Korean marine sunk the Cheonan by accident. There was a similar ship operating nearby in the area and that ship reportedly fired at something, be it a submarine or a flock of birds, shortly before. Incidents like this are quite common in the area and nervousness of the crews must be high.

Other than that, it could be a retaliation act by the north for some previous incidents in the crab wars. Childishness seems to be common force in east Asian politics, so it makes a plausible explanation.

I don't believe that any of the powers in the region has an interest in military escalation. Everybody can only lose. So I hope the responsible politicians manage to calm down the emotions again.

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Obama did it. Everyone knows the economy improves when a country goes on a war footing. yeah, that's it.

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The sinking took place well inside tightly guarded South Korean waters during a massive joint US/SK military exercise. NK subs are unable to move around undetected by the highly touted anti-submarine units of the American and SK forces.

I can't see why NK would want to carry out such an attack in that location at that time, and I seriously doubt they could succeed.

Anyway, if the Japanese truly believe NK managed to pull this off, they must seriously ask themselves whether they should rely on the US for protection.

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Pretty well-timed. In the beginning they stated North Korea was not a suspect, but it has been used to pressure Hatoyama about the Okinawan base deal. Now that that is settled, expect this torpedo issue to be forgotten.

I agree that it was probably friendly fire, carefully twisted to stick it to Okinawa, and conveniently, the Japanese can't voice this because they are well conditioned to always speak the worst about N Korea.

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645 believe that the U.S. was behind this attack...Wow, the kook factor is high...This act was done by the mad private empire of North Korea. There is suppose to be clear evidence that the little Monchichi was behind this.

I am surprised that in this poll, China was not added into the mix. Maybe they want a war so they can show the world that they can fight? Hey you never know, they do support Monchichi at every turn.

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How in the world did the US get 37% of the vote! What would have possibly been the benefit from such an action? The US is stuck in two wars, a massive debt, 20 million people out of work, A war on the border with Mexico and a major environmental disaster growing by the day. A major confrontation with Korea is certainly not on their list of priories at the moment. Not to mention you really don't give North Korea enough credit as are more then capable of pulling off such an act. No one ever thought they could launch a successful missile test or nuclear test either lol.

The Koreans are very resourceful and I would not be surprised in the least of them pulling this off. Not to mention if a older sub was used it may have not been picked up on radar. This actually happened last year when a US Warship didn't detect a Chinese/Russian sub. This made major headlines and was a huge embarrassment. Not to mention as well when US drones were hijacked by Taliban forces using a simple $20 program lol. So I have to disagree with the previous comment. If this can happen to the US then it most certainly can happen to the South Korean Military as well.

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think about this.the USA sank the south korean ship! WHY? to reinforce the need for bases in japan. the US are trying to unsettle the area. to bring a degree of conflict and mistrust, therefore demanding the military bases in japan remain

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ReikiZen said: A major confrontation with Korea is certainly not on their list of priories at the moment.

And did you notice that there is no major confrontation?

As has been pointed out many times, if the US wants to keep bases in Korea and Japan, there has to be a need. It is in the interest of a lot of people up high (financially) to keep those big money bases right where they are. And FYI, the sun does not set on the American Empire. America did not get to be that way by being risk-averse or by being Mr. Swell Guy.

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JoeBigs said: 645 believe that the U.S. was behind this attack...Wow, the kook factor is high..

Kooky is having such blind faith in the U.S. government. It's pretty crazy to think America just could not be behind this, well, just because. Okay, maybe I should not say crazy. Its more like, how much of a sucker can you be?

I have not even voted. The evidence is too slim.

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Lets put it this way : if the experts said NK ,and you don't agree then you have three choices: ghosts did it, you are cheated by US government, or you are cheated by NK.

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tclh, the experts? You don't seem to know what these experts said. They decided the missle was North Korean. They DID NOT say NK did it. Is that such a fine point to grasp?

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OK this again ,why it is all over the place? My national radio and other sources said it was NK torpedo fired by NK sub, even if you followed JT it still said NK (sub and torpedo). Are you one of those experts? if not you just like me, we have possibility being mushrooms (fed bs and grow in the dark).cheer:-).

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Please link me to the proof of a NK sub being present. Was there a tachyon trail with a North Korean signature like in Star Trek? :P

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http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/nkorean-torpedo-sank-skorean-warship-investigators-20100520-vh0o.html I don't know if this is good enough for you ,but anyway...

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There won't be a war in Korea. The haineous nothern regime is there to stay, for everybody's sake! The north won't start a war it knows it will loose in few hours. The south has no real intention to absorb that political anomaly, with its economy that pains to cure from the crisis. Red china has no will to see the US rmy next to its door, at its own border. And the US has so much pain trying to get out of the two illegal wars they started 10 years ago that they can't afford that.

The Real Politik is that the north is struggling to create new pressure, in order to deflate it against some humanitarian help. The problem is that they always raise the bar, the threat level is going to be misread a day or another!

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Why would the US possibly sink a South Korean ship,that's completely ludicrous. I really didn't even think that America would be considered.

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Sabiwabi

The sinking took place well inside tightly guarded South Korean waters during a massive joint US/SK military exercise.

No, it took place near the sea border with North Korea. As for the military exercise, well they're actually military exercises that are planned in response to the sinking. They haven't occurred yet.

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Exactly Starviking, it's amazing how intentionally ignorant some people try to be. Wow.

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tclh said: I don't know if this is good enough for you ,but anyway...

Its fair circumstancial evidence. Apparently you are right that "experts" did say it was a NK sub, but you are wrong in saying there is proof a NK sub was in the area. The "experts" say a NK mini-sub mothership left a port 2-3 days prior and returned 2-3 days later. Fascinating that they know the comings and goings of NK military vessels so clearly (but no exact dates) but don't seem to know where they go! They can't even name the mother-ship!

My deciding needle has moved a bit more toward NK, but I remain skeptical. Anyone sold on the idea that NK did it shows why false flag operations work, why we have had them in the past, and why we will get more in the future. This may very well be one. And Asukawind, for the thousandth time, the reasons why the US might have done it is to justify military bases in SK. Dang. Is this so hard to figure out on your own without reading the thread?

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bdiego, there was a joint military exercise about a week before the sinking. I think Sabi just got the dates wrong. Further, it was a very small exercise. Ignorance is something everyone of us here is guilty. The most ignorant are extremely sure of themselves.

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MistWizard,

very true about the ignorance, but Sabi can do what we all can - google before posting.

As for the motherships - if they launch their minisubs inside NK waters in darkness there is little chance of tracking them.

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It's so obvious that it was North Korea that for someone else, or some other 'entity' to make it look like NK did it, it would have to be the best intelligence operation on the planet. If SK were involved I think they would at least have warned their sailors to be ready to abandon ship.

NK has cried wolf so many times that they cannot complain now or ask for sympathy or expect any of the major players to believe them. They have dug this hole, and they are firmly in it with no ladder.

So even if YGHome speaks the truth when he says NK has the legitimacy to have done it, even though they actually didn't do it, it doesn't make much difference in the eyes of the world.

If however you think really paranoid, in global 'real politik', then you could ask who is actively supplying Syria and Iran with more and more cheap but advanced weaponry. What is the 'entity', besides China, behind these potentially destabilizing Middle Eastern states? Whose ships have been spotted and tuned back? Whose plane full of weaponry was stopped in Bangkok? Who wants to find a legitimate source of foreign currency (arms) to replace making amphetamines and printing bogus bills?

In the light of such argument, I would be willing to consider another power, one who can find a NK torpedo and who has stealth capability (assuming the SK ship watch were not just being lazy) to use a bubblejet explosion effectively.

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nandakandamanda said: It's so obvious that it was North Korea that for someone else, or some other 'entity' to make it look like NK did it, it would have to be the best intelligence operation on the planet.

Actually, because everyone is so quick to assume NK did it, it would be a very easy false flag operation.

If SK were involved I think they would at least have warned their sailors to be ready to abandon ship.

Because SK is one cohesive entity brimming with patriotism and humanitarianism??

it doesn't make much difference in the eyes of the world.

Well it should. Everyone should want the real perp, not the boy who cried wolf.

one who can find a NK torpedo

Or one who can scrawl NK markings on a propeller.

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Here's better question: what sunk the US submarine?

"The sinking of the Cheonan remains unsolved. But around the time of this incident another sinking occurred that has hardly been reported in Japan. Near the site of the sinking of the Cheonan, a colossal object, which appears to be a US submarine, was found to have sunk."

http://www.japanfocus.org/-Tanaka-Sakai/3361

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probably the Aussies and the "Sea Shepherd" who sank it.

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apecNetworks

Well, if a large US submarines has sunk then all we have to do is wait until their loved ones are told they're not coming home - which I guess would have been about 2 months ago.

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To Starviking:

I didn't say that Americans were on board. If it is as the article concludes, the actual sub may not be registered due to it's mission. Operative term: plausible denial.

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I should add that the above link is the second that I found on this subject from a non-mainstream source - both were unconfirmed. Both sources were stating a possible "friendly fire" situation.

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I felt that this article had more weight since I do give Korean Broadcasting Station (KBS) credibility when discussing ROK and DPRK affairs.

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That linked article, apecNetworks, was pretty badly written and put me to sleep several times, and some of the arguments were a little specious, but it was full of stuff that hasn't hit the main news yet, so it was an eye-opener. Thanks. :8)

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I could be wrong, but I'm guessing it was some wacko North Koreans.

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apecNetworks

I didn't say that Americans were on board. If it is as the article concludes, the actual sub may not be registered due to it's mission. Operative term: plausible denial.

How can a 'colossoal' sub be not registed? These things take years to build and are constructed at company shipyards by civilian workers. Once they're completed they are launched with great publicity. I think the workers might have noticed if one of the subs they constructed just quietly sailed away one night...

Also, if the sub was sunk then there would either have been: multiple casualties or a massive rescue effort. No reports of either. No missing US subs too.

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If there was a sunk US submarine in the area, simple, just giving out the ship number SSN xyz? or something and things will automatically work out from there. Relatives of dead soldiers US ,SK) will start to ask questions, blogs on internet, possible law suits...many SK divers went through this sunk sub.(according to the article), some at least could tell this ship number one way or the other on internet ...

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