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A simple comparison of Japan and Germany is inappropriate. The two countries differ in terms of what happened during the war, under what circumstances they engaged in post-war settlements, and which c

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Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida, referring to comments made by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on the differences between Japan and Germany in terms of how they've tried to reconcile with their neighbors after World War Two. (NHK)

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In this remark, FM Kishida is obviously attempting to justify Japan's failure to face "history squarely" and "call things by their name," as Chancellor Merkel recommends. Shameful.

22 ( +28 / -6 )

What about similarities such as an alliance to dominate and conquer the entire world? And both used genocide as means to their ends.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Aaah...yes, of course. Japan is ALWAYS different.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

Japan doesn't have ANY neighbors. They have a moat.

17 ( +18 / -2 )

What about similarities such as an alliance to dominate and conquer the entire world?

I realize that Nazis and the Japanese Imperial Army have basically been turned into cartoon villains by popular media, but I sincerely hope you don't actually believe that their objective was world conquest.

-17 ( +6 / -23 )

This comment is just a prelude to what Abe & cabinet will say in their upcoming speech next August-

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Illyas: I realize that Nazis and the Japanese Imperial Army have basically been turned into cartoon villains by popular media, but I sincerely hope you don't actually believe that their objective was world conquest.

They took over much of China, southeast Asia, Europe, and Africa.

And attacked Russia. The only thing keeping them out of the Western hemisphere was the oceans and their failure to conquer the Eastern hemisphere countries before the tide turned.

At what point do you think they would have stopped themselves? And for what motive?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

"and which countries they have as neighbors."

So true. In Merkel's Q&A, she gave a lot of credit to France for their forward looking stance. France ain't no China. And Austria, who were forcefully annexed by Germany at that time do not seek an apology but rather showed remorse to other countries for their participation with the Nazi. Austria will never be Korea.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

Sensato is right.

yeah the victors didnt understand Japanese culture therefore the new constitution is irrelevant and must be revised, etc etc

Once agan Japan is unique and doesnt need to be held accountable, so very predictable.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

I agree. I wouldn't compare Abe to Hitler at all, he is much more like Mussolini.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@turbotsat

We know that both Stalin and Hitler were eager to back-stab one another after forming their temporary alliance, Hitler simply made the first move. Russia doesn't really count, I feel.

Now don't get me wrong, all of the Axis powers were interested in conquest. But world domination? Not likely. And there's a difference between attacking somewhere and actually planning to occupy it. The issue I have is that their motives don't really need to be exaggerated like this. Hitler may have dreamed of a pan-European empire, and Japan a pan-Asian one. But neither side was stupid or cartoonish enough to believe themselves capable of world domination. Logistically it would be impossible.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I don't remember Germany issuing an apology to Austria either. Although I remember Germany issuing an apology to the nations they had invaded late in the 90's.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Yes I agree, Germany was dirt poor and was constantly abused by the nations around them which lead to why they started fighting, as resentment to their horrible treatment to other people

Japan was angry they didn't get land, so they butchered and murdered people for their land. Killing people who did absolutely nothing to them in a more sadistic fashion than the Germans did to people they held responsible for all their pain and misery

BIG difference, one killed because they were pushed into a corner and was abused, the other killed more sadistically because they wanted stuff and things.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

So true. In Merkel's Q&A, she gave a lot of credit to France for their forward looking stance. France ain't no China. And Austria, who were forcefully annexed by Germany at that time do not seek an apology but rather showed remorse to other countries for their participation with the Nazi. Austria will never be Korea.

nigelboy -- that is some of the most twisted logic and hyperbole even you have ever posted on this subject. What the heck does "France ain't no China" mean anyway? Or, "Austria will never be Korea"? Could it be because Japan ain't no Germany, in that I have never read of any high-ranking German officials trying to white-wash in any way their atrocities, or back-slide on apologies? Nor have I ever seen any leaders of Germany paying respects to Class A War Criminals. But why don't you enlighten us all?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

nigelboy -- that is some of the most twisted logic and hyperbole even you have ever posted on this subject. What the heck does "France ain't no China" mean anyway? Or, "Austria will never be Korea"?

Not really. To claim as though they are similar in any shape or form on how they conduct this issue is as twisted as you can get.

-11 ( +7 / -18 )

The big difference is that Germany was the bully of Europe and Japan was the bully of Asia.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

The millions of dead in Asia due to Japan's aggression and outright brutality I guess do not care about a proper apology from Japan. Kishida is a perfect example of the lack of reality that pervades the LDP and their group of revisionist losers, including Abe. Germany's path is exactly the same one Japan should follow but is not able due to Kishida and his deluded cronies.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

LOL.. Tojo Japan and Hitler Germany were buddies, close allies, same side. Yeah, Japan is so unique, special, couldn't really possibly have been bad. Lol...

The difference I see is that Hitler Germany were more methodical when they were killing people. They built concentration camps and arranged executions in organized fashions. The Japanese on the other hand were like brute animals, rampaging through Asia, killing, raping anyone and everyone, and looting and burning their way through. They didn't care about anything other then killing and raping. But yeah, both Germany and Japan were two of the same kind - evil AXIS Power that had to be destroyed. The difference between the two countries did come after the war. Germany repented, and came to terms with the past. Japan on the other hand basically were let off with a slap on the wrist, and the same leaders that were responsible for the Japanese military adventure in Asia, stayed in power helped by the Americans. The result is what you see in Mr. Abe's government today.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Japan was the bully of Asia?

NO I believe the European imperial colonist like Britain, Netherland and France was doing all the bullying in South East Asia at the time.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

More roundabout Japanese denial. Both committed mass murder and atrocities, including hideous human experiments. Germany has come clean on much, though not all its war crimes (Russia for instance). When is Japan going to admit what everyone know? Hey, Kishida, shame, shame. Everybody knows your name.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Remember the reason why Japan was on the US and Britian's side in WWI? Because they thought Germany would lose and they could get German colonies in China. Actually, the US and Britian hinted this would happen. Imaging Japan's disappointment when this did not happen. They joined Germany because they thought Britian was losing and they would get British land in China. Japan was aiming to be an Imperial power just like Britian, Germany, and the whole European gang. The Pacific was had nothing to do with the European war. They were parallel wars. I don't particularly like Kishida or his ancestor (a war criminal restored to power by the US, don't forget), but you do have to take into account different background. Also, Japan protected its Jewish community and other European Jews by giving them exit visas as the Nazi's approached.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Many soldiers have said that the Imperial Japanese troops were worse in many ways than the Nazi German forces.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Not really. To claim as though they are similar in any shape or form on how they conduct this issue is as twisted as you can get.

nigelboy -- for once we agree. Mainly because Germany has aggrssively worked to own up to its past and put it behind it, as opposed to Japan that keeps bringing it up to try to make it feel better about itself. But, don't believe me, let's see what Wikipedia says about German law:

In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("incitement of the people") is a concept in German criminal law that bans the incitement of hatred against a segment of the population. It often applies in (although is not limited to) trials relating to Holocaust denial in Germany. In addition, Strafgesetzbuch § 86a outlaws various symbols of "unconstitutional organisations", such as the Swastika and the SS runes.

So tell me nigelboy, how many people in Japan have been prosecuted for denial of their atricocities -- Nanjing, comfort women, Unit 731, etc? Hell, you'd have to throw half the Cabinet in jail if Japan even came close to that kind of standard. Or how about all those nut jobs in the black trucks who drive around every weekend/holiday blasting their message of hatred -- especially around Yasukuni.

You're right, treating Germany and Japan as being even close to similar in their real addressing their atrocities and owning up to them is foolish.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Japan protected its Jewish community

What Jewish community? It was Japan for Japanese.

Many soldiers have said that the Imperial Japanese troops were worse in many ways than the Nazi German forces.

Even the Nazi official who saw the animalistic rampage through Nanjing, reported the complete out of control savagery by the Japanese troops, and even the Nazi's were appalled. Imagine that, how much worse can you get when the Nazi's found the Japanese behaviour appalling?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

gokai o maneku:

Because they thought Germany would lose and they could get German colonies in China. Actually, the US and Britian hinted this would happen. Imaging Japan's disappointment when this did not happen.

It did happen.

Britian

(4 times).

Are you referring to Britain?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japan was the bully of Asia?

NO I believe the European imperial colonist like Britain, Netherland and France was doing all the bullying in South East Asia at the time.

Well you wouldn't want to let facts get in the way of your beliefs.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

And both used genocide as means to their ends.

This is quite debatable.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This impending apology is going to be disastrous.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I think Kishida`s statement is correct as far as it goes, but Merkels comment (the one I read here) was general enough to apply to both countries, regardless of the differences.

So, nice try but no goal for Kishida.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

'The big difference is that Germany was the bully of Europe and Japan was the bully of Asia.'

I don't think the word 'bully' does genocide, inhuman experiments on fellow humans and beheading competitions justice. Many countries have behaved at a subhuman level at various times in their histories, including my own, and the people in those countries who aren't jaundiced and face up to this deserve our respect. There are many here in Japan who do not accept the poisonous and barking mad ideas of the revisionists and they deserve our respect. Many of my Japanese friends here are disgusted to have their name dragged through the mud by the rightists in front of the world although many tell me they wouldn't feel comfortable airing this view in company of many Japanese. A troubling thought.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

SamuraiBlue

Japan was the bully of Asia?

NO I believe the European imperial colonist like Britain, Netherland and France was doing all the bullying in South East Asia at the time.

Yup and Japan tried to take the bullying from the countries you mentioned above.... It's funny how you apologists always think that Japan is the victim of this.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Hotmail: Please read a little history. Japan had a very vibrant Jewish community before the war. Also, the last 50 years of European Imperialist Empire has been captured in pictures. If you have the stomach for it, you can do Google image search on attrocities commited by Europeans around the world. Japan is not unique in this either. @theeastisred Thank you for the English lesson. And yes, a few Pacific islands and a piece of Shandong. Not what we were promised and hoped for.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

noypikantoku

Funny if I recall Japan was fighting against the French, the British, the Dutch and the undlings that allied with those Euopean Imperialist colonists not the indegnious people in general.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

True they can't be compared -- they can be contrasted. Germany has made amends; Japan has not -- at least not properly. The foreign minister proves that with his words.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

I have never read a German apology. They should apologize 89 more times also.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

Illyas: Now don't get me wrong, all of the Axis powers were interested in conquest. But world domination? Not likely. And there's a difference between attacking somewhere and actually planning to occupy it. The issue I have is that their motives don't really need to be exaggerated like this. Hitler may have dreamed of a pan-European empire, and Japan a pan-Asian one. But neither side was stupid or cartoonish enough to believe themselves capable of world domination. Logistically it would be impossible.

They didn't leave places they successfully invaded until forced out.

In plans agreed upon after Pearl Harbor, the Axis divided up the Eastern Hemisphere along the 70th longitude line, east side of the line to Japan, west side to Germany and Italy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere

The Land Disposal Plan - A reasonably accurate indication as to the geographic dimensions of the Co-Prosperity Sphere are elaborated on in a Japanese wartime document prepared in December 1941 by the Research Department of the Imperial Ministry of War. Known as the "Land Disposal Plan in the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" ... it also envisaged the conquest of a vast range of territories covering virtually all of East Asia, the Pacific Ocean, and even sizable portions of the Western Hemisphere, including in locations as far removed from Japan as South America and the eastern Caribbean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:German_and_Japanese_spheres_of_influence_at_greatest_extent_World_War_II_1942.jpg (Note this map of the Eastern Hemisphere in 1942 has the Horn of Africa marked as green because the British took it from Italy in 1941, not because the Axis didn't want it.)

Map with borders proposed by Germany and by Japan for the eventual paritition of Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Planned_partition_of_Asia.png

If Germany had succeeded in taking over western Russia, does anyone really believe Japan would have abided by their neutrality agreement with whatever remained of Russia? They wouldn't even have needed to follow their usual facade of instigating a fake incident as a pretense to begin an attack, used in China and Korea. Just roll into Siberia from Manchuria.

Examine the map at link above. Imagine Russia, Africa, East Asia, Europe, Australia, gone.

Then South America, gone.

What's left? United States? Canada? Possibly they would never have been attacked. More likely they would have, at some point.

In fact, Hitler had ideas of eventually waging war against the US, and also, finally, after everything was settled down, against Japan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_%28Nazism%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Z

The Project Z (also called the Z Bombers Project) was a military project of the Empire of Japan, similar to the Nazi German Amerika Bomber project, to design an intercontinental bomber capable of reaching North America.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

At what point do you think they would have stopped themselves? And for what motive?

Japan's objective was to secure resources and a supply of raw materials, with no further interference from western powers. Their objective wasn't global domination, but certainly domination of east Asia. The whole strike south plan was kicked into motion as a result of US oil and raw materials embargoes (and because a stinging defeat by the Soviets in Mongolia in 1939 made them wary of attacking Russia again)

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

kishida , is this because of J-snow & the difference in the length of the J-intestine, inquiring minds need to know......idiot!!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Christopher Glen

Please refer to "turbotsat Mar. 11, 2015 - 01:12PM JST", for counterpoints.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Even the Nazi official who saw the animalistic rampage through Nanjing, reported the complete out of control savagery by the Japanese troops, and even the Nazi's were appalled.

Obviously these same Nazis were not appalled by the similar behavior of Germans troops against Russian and Slavic peasants, who they saw as inferior beings. And to date, Belgium has not apologized for slaughtering 10 to 15 million innocents in the Congo under King Leopold's orders, not too long before the wars in Europe.

This was the way of the world. We can hope it doesn't return to those days again, but I'm not that optimistic. Usually, the excuse for any new atrocity is an atrocity from years past. Tit for tat, no matter how many generations have gone by. It's quite possible that the Chinese government is hoping for payback. That alone makes it difficult for Japan to act contritely. When the person you wronged is seeking justification for further violence rather than some kind of closure, that's not an environment that's conducive to apology.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

We always see lots of nichi-bei (Japan--US) comparisons, but actually Germany makes a much better example for comparison. Roughly the same conditions after the war. Build an economy around heavy industry and machines, especially the automobile. Though Japan has less arable land and a higher population density, the figures are closer to Germany's than America's.

So 70 years after the war and Germany has made peace with its neighbours, has a progressive energy policy, better working conditions, more civic participation, a much higher food self-sufficiency rate, less of an income gap, cities with better infrastructure, etc... Maybe it's true. No comparison!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Hotmail:

" Even the Nazi official who saw the animalistic rampage through Nanjing, reported the complete out of control savagery by the Japanese troops, and even the Nazi's were appalled. Imagine that, how much worse can you get when the Nazi's found the Japanese behaviour appalling? "

I think you are talking about John Rabe. The story is well-known. Yes, he was appalled by the atrocities, and he is witness that bad things did happen. But he was not a Nazi official, and the Nazis were not appalled by his story; to the contrary, they buried it. So you are taking a piece of correct information and then spice it up with incorrect information.... I´d recommend everybody to study for themselves.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Samurai

Funny if I recall Japan was fighting against the French, the British, the Dutch and the undlings that allied with those Euopean Imperialist colonists not the indegnious people in general.

this is why Japan needs to inform their people about the real events happened during the WW2, to avoid growing misinformed and Naive people like you.... so Japan is doing Philippines, Korea, China, Taiwan and Australia a favor and liberating them from European Imperialists? So in order to achieve that they needed to kill 900,000 filipino civilians and 57,000 filipino soldiers? I'm sorry but you are wrong and Majority of the people they killed during WW2 was the natives and not the Europeans you've mentioned above... Japan came to our countires and tried to force their propagandas Filipinos didn't ask for their aid! And why is it their business to fight against European Imperialists???

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Imagine that, how much worse can you get when the Nazi's found the Japanese behaviour appalling?

Maybe because the Nazis you're talking about, the soldiers in the German army, aren't the same people that were staffing concentration camps? The actual German soldiers weren't these blood-thirsty savages that media has made them out to be. For example, Ally PoWs were treated very well by both the US/British and German sides in WW2. PoWs captured by Russia and Japan, on the other hand, were treated extremely poorly.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

NO I believe the European imperial colonist like Britain, Netherland and France was doing all the bullying in South East Asia at the time.

At Hong Kong the British basically hosted their flag over some empty rocks and many Chinese then flocked there.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Yelnats: "I have never read a German apology."

Because, like many Japanese right wingers, or wannabes, you choose not to see what you don't like. Chancellors in the past have LITERALLY prostrated themselves at Holocaust memorials and begged for forgiveness, with Merkel herself not long ago visiting Dachau to express remorse and shame over what the Nazis did. Now, contrast this with Abe, who has denied atrocities in the past, and is forming a panel of denialists to see how far he can get away with white-washing history with his 'new apology'. THAT is why you've "never seen a German apology" -- admitting it would mean you have to admit that Japan is doing nothing of the sort when it very, very much needs to if it wants people to truly move on and Japan to prosper and get along with the neighbors it has wronged.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Abe san and LDP government are in danger of reverting to revisionism over reflection, Abe San political choice is clear 'nationalism' and/or Japan’s future national interests.

The problem for Japanese Foreign office diplomacy and Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida is differentiating Abe’s words and actions, particularly defending or justifying Abe san behaviour and rhetoric that just don’t stand up to scrutiny.

Researching Shinzo Abe political roots displays a propensity to succumb to the influence of individuals and organizations that promote the “revisionist” theory on Japans wartime past.

Foremost that the Japanese army did not colonize Korea, but legitimately through a legal process take control of the country. That the same government and army did not invade or commit heinous atrocities in China, but merely just advanced and liberated the peoples of China from government, subsequently the Nanjing massacre either did not occur, or has been historically exaggerated. The per-emptive strike on Pearl Harbour being reduced to an act of self-defense to liberate Asia from British and American imperialism. That “comfort women” was not a act of coercion, but justifiable conduct in a war zone. That the Tokyo War Tribunal was just a exercise in the justice of victory, effectively depriving the people of Japan their full sovereignty and honour.

Four question for Abe San LDP government or commenters on JT....... Is a visit to the Yasukuni Shrine the only way for for Abe San LDP government to pay their respect or represent Japan’s war-dead?......Does the Abe San LDP government sincerely adhere to the Murayama Statement?..... Similarly does Abe San LDP government adopt and adhere to the Kono Statement?...... Lastly does Abe San LDP government endorse the judgments of the Tokyo War Tribunal?.............

2 ( +2 / -0 )

noypikantoku

Sorry kid but Taiwan and Korea was already a colony of Japan before the war started and Australia was part of allies forces from the start as well. Phillipines were part of US and China was effectively cut into tiny pieces before Japan had entered. I am also interested in hearing your side of story concerning Indochina? Where they angels providing goddly love to the indegious people?

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

HotmailMar. 11, 2015 - 10:40AM JST

Even the Nazi official who saw the animalistic rampage through Nanjing, reported the complete out of control savagery by the Japanese troops, and even the Nazi's were appalled.

WilliBMar. 11, 2015 - 03:22PM JST

I think you are talking about John Rabe. But he was not a Nazi official, and the Nazis were not appalled by his story; to the contrary, they buried it.

Yes, he was a Nazi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe You can read what he actually wrote in his diary in the Wiki article.

He was siding with China because Germany was Chinese ally when Battle of Nanjing started in December 1937. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_until_1941

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Yelnats

I have never read a German apology. They should apologize 89 more times also.

But Germans study everything in schools and recognized what was done by the Nazis, Japan don't teach this in schools.

I have a Japanese writer friend who published several books, but when she wrote a book about the stories of comfort women, ALL publications in Japan declined to publish it! ... it's these things! Not the "I AM SORRY" but the RECOGNITION and continously reminding the new generation. The aim is not to BLAME Japan, but to simply accept the wrong doings done by their previous leaders and never hide or deny the truth, in the end this is for Japan, because if history repeats again, who will suffer bad?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

noypikantokuMar. 11, 2015 - 04:51PM JST

Japan don't teach this in schools.

I have a Japanese writer friend who published several books, but when she wrote a book about the stories of comfort women, ALL publications in Japan declined to publish it!

Oh, really? Then, why do we have so many publishers in Japan which publish comfort women books from Korean point of view?

Would you tell us the name of the writer? Since she has already published "several books", there should be no problem identifying the author.

I am fed up with the stories like, "I have a Japanese friend who is". That is an expression to make a point no one can verify.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Samurai

Sorry kid but Taiwan and Korea was already a colony of Japan

So I thought their purpose is to free these countries from being colonized, so why would the Empire of Japan colonize Korea and Taiwan then? I will ask you the same unanswered question I asked you, "why is it Japan's business to FIGHT in behalf of the natives?" Again the NATIVES didn't want Japan's help! … Admit it, the Empire of Japan wanted to colonize the whole asia, miscalculated their resources, then BOOM! backfired to them…

Checho

Korean point of view?

its up to you to believe it or not, you don't have to believe it,it won't hurt, because the facts that Japan is not recognizing their wrongdoings during the war are all out there. and let's go back to the real point, why would Japan not tell the real events during the WW2 to the new generation? Why don't they teach ALL in schools?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

noypikantoku

Answering a question with a question?

Classy way to evade answering, not.

Look Japan was not in the business of salvation BUT Japan was the first to address equality between all races that was shot down by GB and the US. Japan also provided education to all her colonies something that was never done by the European Imperial Colonist either.

Oh yeah the natives did come to Japan to seek help. Most all revolutionist of SEA came to Japan in search of help if you didn't know.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

SamuraiBlue: "Look Japan was not in the business of salvation BUT Japan was the first to address equality between all races that was shot down by GB and the US."

Utter BS! And how many people, including one of those on Abe's new 'apology panel', have you heard say, "Japan was DEFENDING Asia"!!?? The answer, of course, is MANY. So, so much for your 'Japan was not in the business of salvation' (according to the wingers). You're right, of course, but my point is many people here honestly believe that is EXACTLY what Japan was doing -- saving Asia, giving education to other nations, modern systems besides, etc. etc. They were the benevolent defenders of Asia who have been given a bad rap, bla bla bla.

"apan also provided education to all her colonies something that was never done by the European Imperial Colonist either."

Boom! There you go! They were all uneducated bums before Japan rolled in, slaughtered many, and forced them to learn Japanese. Yesterday I heard a guy like you claiming that Japan taught people in Taiwan how to take baths! haha... I asked him to go to my gym and tell the Japanese there because they sure as heck don't know how to take one, spit on the change room floors, etc.

"Most all revolutionist of SEA came to Japan in search of help if you didn't know."

Yup, Japan as the benevolent saviour myth is alive and well. And people like you honestly wonder why Japan is scorned by others instead of praised for its past. Amazing.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Germany accepted their wrongs while Japan didn't learn their wrongs !

-1 ( +3 / -2 )

Chancellor Merkel prepared very carefully for this. She chose the Asahi as her vehicle for expressing her views. She cite President Von Weizsaecher's remarks to fully indicate that her intention is to address the truth of history and the necessity to deal with the misdeeds committed in the name of racial superiority and the necessity of reconciliation with victimized neighbors. Merkel and her team chose what to do carefully and respectfully. For Suga to be so blithely dismissive only shows how the Abe administration cannot deal with the eloquence of truth.

5 ( +6 / -2 )

A simple comparison of Japan and Germany is inappropriate.

I wonder whether Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida would be able to do a complex comparison?

Probably not, because then he would have already realized that it is possible to learn from others even they are not Japanese.

The main problem I feel with people like Kishida and Abe is their absolut inability to empathize with non-Japanese. While they frequently mourn the Japanese victims of WW2 when did we ever see them pay the same form of heartfelt respect towards the foreign victims of Japans wartime rage?

German leaders in contrast always take care to pay respect to the victims of German aggression first. No German leader would ever dare to mention the German suffering of WW2 without reference to the German responsibility and guilt.

But we should also keep in mind that the convincing German stance we see today was not always so clear and credible. Up to the 1960 many German politicians actually were quite similar to the Japanese right-wingers in that they tried to sweep things under the carpet.

For Germans to be able to face the horrors that Germany had inflicted on so many and to also be able express true empathy with the victims was a decades-long process that was driven forward by the courageous determination of many individual politicians and citizens.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"The two countries can't be compared"

Sure they can. The main difference between Germany and Japan is that Germany has owned up to its wrongdoing in combination with having worked together with its partners to elevate from the views and convictions it held during those times. Meanwhile, Japan is acting obtuse, and will continue to perpetuate the status quo in regards to its poor relationship with its neighbors by continuing to disregard, whitewash and deny its wide known history.

Right wing, nationalistic propaganda is doing nothing but damage to Japan. It's a very insular attitude to have in the 21st century. Japan needs an honest discourse within itself, by leading by example in its region.

Just like Germany did.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Qu'est-ce que l'Histoire, sinon une fable sur laquelle tout le monde est d' accord?

Welcome to what our world has always been based on, and what that is has always been based on order and chaos fighting a war that has no end.

If it had an end we would cease to exist. When we achieve some sense of Order we become lax, fat and lazy and Chaos begins to collapse that order.

When this false sense is all collapsed, we as a species start to seek new truths and discover and we grow. And we continue in a cycle of stupidity that seems to never end. And sadly there are those that use this knowledge to gain power and brainwash the youth to die to keep them and their families in power......

When folks start to see the truth that there is no one truth, maybe then folks will stop following the insane..

But, when we discover this we just might end as a species.......

We need Chaos.......

Ab Ordo Chao

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japan protected its Jewish community and other European Jews by giving them exit visas as the Nazi's approached.

No, Japan didn't: a rogue diplomat--Chiune Sugihara--who possessed a sense of humanity and decency uncommon amongst Japanese officials of the day, disobeyed orders and issued exit visas in Lithuania. For his trouble he was forced to resign and ignored by the Japanese government until his dying day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The deeds in the past for which Germany paid reparation are basically the deeds related to the iniquity of Nazism (holocaust, ethnic cleansing, eugenic policies, etc.). Forced labor is not subject to compensation unless the labor is related to Nazism. So Germany didn't pay war reparation to the countries she sent troops or fought with in the sense that Japan paid it. Germany didn't pay reparation for the women who worked, forced or not, as prostitutes in the military. Simple comparison is misleading, though maybe deliberately so.

2 ( +1 / -0 )

seihararinokaze:

" Germany didn't pay reparation for the women who worked, forced or not, as prostitutes in the military. "

Bud Germany did not have a massive, military-controlled comfort women system like Japan, so you are trying to make invalid comparisons here.

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U.S. Should Be Appalled by Japan's Historical Revisionism Dennis P. Halpin March 9, 2015

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/us-should-be-appalled-by-japans-historical-revisionism-12381

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And this is all what the Foreign Minister have to say,,i just wish they keep their responses to themselves except if they want to look funny in the eyes of many.

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This statement speaks for itself about the Japanese incapability to cope with factual history.

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nigelboy -- for once we agree. Mainly because Germany has aggrssively worked to own up to its past and put it behind it, as opposed to Japan that keeps bringing it up to try to make it feel better about itself. But, don't believe me, let's see what Wikipedia says about German law: -

As if this had any relevance to how her neighbors reconciled. Face it. Germany's so-called atonement and reparations are almost exlusively for the Holocaust victim itself and virtually peanuts to the war damage she caused to other states during their expansion. Holocaust is Germany's legacy and hers alone.

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WilliB: Bud Germany did not have a massive, military-controlled comfort women system like Japan, so you are trying to make invalid comparisons here.

Happened to run across this yesterday ... Germany did have this, and weren't able to scrub the record like Japan was. It was quite extensive and included forced labor and use of camp inmates and random kidnappees and executions after exhaustion or illness.

Tried to describe what's at the links, but JT auto-proofreader keeps blocking my post and I can't find the offending word(s), so here are just the links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_brothels_in_World_War_II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_camp_brothels_in_World_War_II

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As if this had any relevance to how her neighbors reconciled. Face it. Germany's so-called atonement and reparations are almost exlusively for the Holocaust victim itself and virtually peanuts to the war damage she caused to other states during their expansion. Holocaust is Germany's legacy and hers alone.

nigelboy -- you never fail to amaze me with your "logic". So simply because Japan had many, many atrcocities to atone for from WWII, while Germany's atonement "are almost exclusively for the Holocaust victim (sic) itself" that means comparisons are irrelevant? I would ask how so, but I know I would just get more semantics and splitting of hairs. But all your semantics cannot dodge the fact that in the world's eyes, Japan's and Germany's atrocities are very comparable -- being in-human is being in-human, whether it came at the end of a bayonet or in a gas chamber -- and until Japan stops making excuses or trying to say "ours was not as bad" or "our neighbors are not like France or Austria", you and Kishida are just digging yourselves a deeper and deper hole.

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nigelboy -- you never fail to amaze me with your "logic". So simply because Japan had many, many atrcocities to atone for from WWII, while Germany's atonement "are almost exclusively for the Holocaust victim (sic) itself" that means comparisons are irrelevant? I would ask how so, but I know I would just get more semantics and splitting of hairs. But all your semantics cannot dodge the fact that in the world's eyes, Japan's and Germany's atrocities are very comparable -- being in-human is being in-human, whether it came at the end of a bayonet or in a gas chamber -- and until Japan stops making excuses or trying to say "ours was not as bad" or "our neighbors are not like France or Austria", you and Kishida are just digging yourselves a deeper and deper hole.

Yes. "Holocaust" is a whole different animal in which 16 out of 19 offenders were found guilty of "crime against humanity" during the Nuremburg trials (and many more at IMT at various locations). None of such charges were brought forth during the Tokyo Trials. What was brought forth were "crimes against peace" (Class A) which is an ex post facto law placed at the London Charters.

As to the "world's eyes" at that time, a convicted Class A criminal was able to do the following.

"..Shigemitsu served as Foreign minister from 1954 until 1956 under the 1st through 3rd Hatoyama administrations. He represented Japan at the 1955 Asian–African Conference held in Indonesia, marking the first return of Japan towards participation in an international conference since the League of Nations. The following year, he addressed the United Nations General Assembly, pledging Japan’s support of the founding principles of the United Nations and formally applying for membership. Japan became the 80th member of the United Nations on December 18, 1956.."

By the time Germany gained admission to the U.N. in 1973, Japan had already concluded bi lateral treaties and had virtually concluded the related payments pursuant to.

Whether "it came at the end of a bayonet or in a gas chamber" or complete annihlation of the civilian population through WMD (Tokyo bombing, atomic bombing), such issues are settled.

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As to the "world's eyes" at that time, a convicted Class A criminal was able to do the following.

Thank you, you made my argumwent for me. "At that time" was 60 years ago, and no one could have forseen Japan's near constant attempt to back-peddle/whitewash its history in the past decade or so. If not, Merkel would not have had to make the statement she did, and you and Kishida would not be trying to dispute the comparison.

Whether "it came at the end of a bayonet or in a gas chamber" or complete annihlation of the civilian population through WMD (Tokyo bombing, atomic bombing), such issues are settled.

Agreed -- then why does Abe feel compelled to bring it up all the time? If Japan truly believed that things are "settled" it would just leave it alone, not, as I said, keep saying "Yes, we apologized "but"... Just let it go. Like Merkel said.

.

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Thank you, you made my argumwent for me. "At that time" was 60 years ago, and no one could have forseen Japan's near constant attempt to back-peddle/whitewash its history in the past decade or so. If not, Merkel would not have had to make the statement she did, and you and Kishida would not be trying to dispute the comparison.

Merkel made no such comment for she gives credit mostly to France and she qualified her statement that she was in no position to advise the situation in Asia.

Agreed -- then why does Abe feel compelled to bring it up all the time?

He doesn't. This topic comes up when the opposition party addresses it during the Diet meetings.

To put it simply, does Japanese government ask for apology or compensation? The answer is no.

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What a hilarious quote particularly the last part. Of course, Germany has apology worthy neighbors unlike Japan's neighbors who are responsible for Japan's lack of apology and reconciliation. Oh wait, but Japan already apologized! I forgot. Oh wait, but Japan didn't do those things. So Japan already apologized for those things that didn't really happen and it's Korea and China's fault. LOL.

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WilliB

Germany had 500 comfort stations which were controlled by the state. Japan didn’t have so many.

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nigelboy Mar. 12, 2015 - 02:01AM JST By the time Germany gained admission to the U.N. in 1973, Japan had already concluded bi lateral treaties and had virtually concluded the related payments pursuant to.

What payment? Japan’s direct compensation payments both to war victims and their heirs have totaled only $1 billion. This contrasts remarkably with Germany’s record. The compensation figures from a decade ago, Germany’s payments to victims and their heirs had exceeded $70 billion. The contrast is all the more remarkable for the fact that Imperial Japan’s victims outnumbered those of the Nazis by at least three to one. The truth is that most of Japan’s victims, including millions in China and Southeast Asia, including Philippines have not received a penny. And in the small minority of cases in which compensation has been paid, the sums have been laughable.

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What payment? Japan’s direct compensation payments both to war victims and their heirs have totaled only $1 billion.

Do you not read? Japan concluded bi lateral treaties as a country to country compensation. Furthermore, Japan and the Japanese nationals had to relinquish all of her assets overseas pursuant to the Treaty of Peace while Germany and her citizens can claim their overseas assets. This is why Kishida made a comment that "a simple comparison" is not appropriate.

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nigelboy Mar. 12, 2015 - 06:29AM JST Do you not read? Japan concluded bi lateral treaties as a country to country compensation.

What is bi lateral treaties? To benefit Japan? Compare to Germany, Japan didn't give a dam about the individual compensations, as long as their corrupted goverment is paid off. Why has there not been more pressure on Japan to do the right thing by countless innocent victims? Sure, in the Treaty of San Francisco in 1951, signed by the U.S., Japan, and many other nations, this treaty formally settled all issues arising out of the war. However, China was not a signatory of this treaty, which of course was by far the largest group of potential claimants for compensation.

When China began opening up in the 70s, one of Japan's first moves was to press Zhou Enlai, to renounce the Chinese people's claims to compensation. Why did Japan press China? Germany would never did that to the Jews or French people. For reasons that have never been made clear, he duly did so. His renunciation was endorsed by Deng Xiaoping in the late 70s, and Japan promised to favor China in its foreign-aid program. Japan's ODA amounted to over $6 billion. This did essentially nothing for the victims, Chinese officials got to designate the projects on which Japan's money would be spent. Japan saids compensation issued was settled already, and left victims with empty pockets.

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What is bi lateral treaties? To benefit Japan?

It was generally accepted international norm. Since Germany was split, the process of bilateral treaty was difficult. What are you whining about?

Why has there not been more pressure on Japan to do the right thing by countless innocent victims?

They did. That's why Japan was able to conclude treaties with the other nations from the 50-60's. With these efforts, that's why Japan was able to gain world acceptance as evidence by their admission to U.N. in 1956.

Sure, in the Treaty of San Francisco in 1951, signed by the U.S., Japan, and many other nations, this treaty formally settled all issues arising out of the war. However, China was not a signatory of this treaty, which of course was by far the largest group of potential claimants for compensation.

Republic of China, who represented "China" at that time under U.N. signed a separate agreement with basically the same term which includes waiving such reparations and in turn, Japan relinquish all assets left there.

When China began opening up in the 70s, one of Japan's first moves was to press Zhou Enlai, to renounce the Chinese people's claims to compensation.

If PRC is going to be accepted as a replacement member of ROC, they had to assume the agreements signed by their predecessor. If they are not willing to do so, they are more than welcome to leave the U.N. Permanent Security Council right now.

Germany would never did that to the Jews or French people.

I have no idea what this means but as far as I know, Germany promptly rejected Greece's request for compensation. Bravo Deutchland.

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nigelboy Mar. 12, 2015 - 07:32AM JST I have no idea what this means but as far as I know, Germany promptly rejected Greece's request for compensation. Bravo Deutchland.

The 1961 agreement settled claims raised by individuals in Greece. All matters in that regard had been dealt with in major power negotiations that led to German reunification in 1990.

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Samuraiblue

Where they angels providing goddly love to the indegious people?

Indeed nope, so why Japan taking over the colonization will improve things then? All the beheadings, Death Marching, destroying of eurpean style roads bridges, churches etc. raping women and using people as human experiments, are these their way to improve things from the Europeans?

Oh yeah the natives did come to Japan to seek help. Most all revolutionist of SEA came to Japan in search of help if you didn't know.

Would you mind naming these revolutionists, their leaders and their groups? during the late 1930s and 40s there were no records of legit "revolutionists" asking for Japan's help as filipinos were contented with commonwealth system. These revolutionists you are talking about were the ones paid by the empire of Japan to push their propaganda in the Philippines. However Filipinos declined so Japanese decided to do it the hard way!....If the revolutionists you are talking about are legit, how come majority of filipinos are fighting side by side with americans and not with the Japanese? Shouldn't they fighting with their liberators?... Dude, I am from the Philippines 99.9 percent of the elderly (who lived during the wars) and veterans have horror stories to tell, many has still phobia with Japanese.

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noypikantokuMar. 11, 2015 - 04:51PM JST

I have a Japanese writer friend who published several books, but when she wrote a book about the stories of comfort women, ALL publications in Japan declined to publish it! ...

I am still waiting you tell us who the writer is. You can easily do that for she has published "several book" already.

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noypikantoku

Life expectancy doubled from 30 to 50~60 in Korea as well as literacy rate from 5% to 60% due to public schooling. City planning INCLUDING sewage and drinking water resulted in bettering public health. Development of dams improved irrugation dramatically rising yeild in agriculture. Hatta Yoichi is still taught today in Taiwan as father of modern farming who constructed the Wusanto Reservoir.

As for liberators Bogyoke Aung San, the Father of modern-day Burma, Phan Bội Châu, Prince Cường Để both of Vietnam, Chiang Kai-shek, Sun Yat-sen of ROC both studied in Japan. Many of them recieved advice and funding for their cause from Japan.

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Samuraiblue

Life expectancy doubled from 30 to 50~60 in Korea as well as literacy rate from 5% to 60% due to public schooling. City planning INCLUDING sewage and drinking water resulted in bettering public health.

If Koreans loved what Japan did for them, then how come until now the Koreans are still asking for Japan's forgiveness and some for Justice!? so what? you will blame the Koreans now?!? Plus colonizing is colonizing! countries should be left alone! period! countries can help each other, but no country has a right to intervene or control things in the native's behalf! It's not The Empire of Japan's business to improve things for Asia! Asians didn't want that!

As for liberators Bogyoke Aung San, the Father of modern-day Burma, Phan Bội Châu, Prince Cường Để both of Vietnam, Chiang Kai-shek, Sun Yat-sen of ROC both studied in Japan. Many of them recieved advice and funding for their cause from Japan.

What are you talking about? FYI Dude Chang Kai Shek fought the Japanese during WW2.

If these leaders studied in Japan that doesnt mean they are allowing Japan to colonize their countries! ask for funding or alliance maybe? but to ask Japan to colonize their countries!? I don't think leaders are open to that.

Ch3Cho

its up to you to believe it or not, you don't have to beleive it! I just used her as the example but not using her as the main backbone of my argument and I don't think I am obliged to tell her name to you. So if you don't want to believe me on that writer part, its up to you BUT as I mentioned yesterday, there are other more clearer facts to justify that Japan is not doing a good job about them recognizing their faults and avoiding to educate the new generation of their faults during WW2 compare to Germans. Why don't we focus on that part? Because that argument has evidences around you

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Life expectancy doubled from 30 to 50~60 in Korea as well as literacy rate from 5% to 60% due to public schooling. City planning INCLUDING sewage and drinking water resulted in bettering public health.

So now we're back to 'oh we were overlords, but we were such nice overlords' argument.

Reminds me of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXaTcZWBfC0

"I am a kind god"

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No matter whether they apologize, prostrate themselves or pay money, there are some people who will never forgive the Germans and there are some who will never forgive the Japanese. It is as simple and understandable, for those people, as that.

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Let's start with admission and apology. Whining about victims not accepting apology is a pretty ridiculous complaint when the offender still has trouble admitting their wrongs and claiming they've already apologized for the very acts they claim hasn't happened all at the same time.

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Sorry, Kishida-san, but the war aims of both Germany and Japan were and are identical, as were the treatment of each nations' views of the so-called untermeschen and undesirables...

As I posted elsewhere, re-fighting the war does no good....

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NO I believe the European imperial colonist like Britain, Netherland and France was doing all the bullying in South East Asia at the time.

SamuraiBlue: this is just poorly informed whataboutism.

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"A simple comparison of Japan and Germany is inappropriate." - article

A simpleton cannot help but hope for simplicity. Not inappropriate, inappropriate refers to manners, not factual evaluations of history. Comparison and contrast based on facts is an endlessly useful exercise.

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