Japan has apologized for waging aggressive war and oppressing its neighbors, but those apologies have fumbling and awkward, and often been undercut by revisionist statements from senior politicians.

And stop blaming South Koreans

No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame. -Thomas U Berger

Also, Koreans were willing participants of the Pacific war much like Austria with Germany during WWII. They don't to particpate in the other side of the fence. They(Koreans) should be apologizing like Japan. Stop white washing your history Korea.

nigelboy: "More proof that you have not read a SINGLE Japanese history textbook."

Obviously I've read more than you -- you can't even remember Abe's history of revisionism, so I won't pretend to think you know about any history beyond that.

And stop blaming South Koreans any time Japanese history rears its ugly head and revisionists like Abe say certain things never happened. Japan has never honestly apologized for its wartime aggression, and are waiting for the victims of atrocities to die so that they can successfully bury the subject and pretend it never happened. They need to give an HONEST apology and acknowledge the past instead of hiding it and white-washing the textbooks like Abe has done.

Prime example of what I was talking about. White wash, white wash, white wash.

Korean example I presume. I agree wholeheartedly.

Oh, and WWII started in 1939. I can't believe I need to educate you on that fact. Not surprised, really, but still astonishing.

More proof that you have not read a SINGLE Japanese history textbook.

http://www.tsukurukai.com/05_rekisi_text/rekisitext_index.html#

nigelboy: "I think the posters made it clear that it's the Koreans that white washes history..."

Prime example of what I was talking about. White wash, white wash, white wash. Oh, and WWII started in 1939. I can't believe I need to educate you on that fact. Not surprised, really, but still astonishing.

Vienna1sausage: Good point. Even most adults in Japan don't know when WWII started -- they seem to think it was started in 1941 with the Pearl Harbour attacks (for which they were victims, of course!).

Wow. So when did WWII start smithinjapan?

Try and hide history all you like, the fact remains that Japan white-washes its history and forces the remade history on its youth.

??? I think the posters made it clear that it's the Koreans that white washes history with their non disclosure of documents pertaining to the normalization among other materials. Any scholar that even remotely tries to correct this fact is ostracized in Korea. Why am I debating to a person who hasn't even (can't) read a single Japanese history book??

Vienna1sausage: Good point. Even most adults in Japan don't know when WWII started -- they seem to think it was started in 1941 with the Pearl Harbour attacks (for which they were victims, of course!).

nigelboy: Try and hide history all you like, the fact remains that Japan white-washes its history and forces the remade history on its youth. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard Japanese go overseas only to learn the truth about their history, since they are told nothing but lies here. Abe calls it "Patriotic Education", but that's just a euphemism for brain-washing. A man who was never there, and who would never fight for his nation, is telling people who DID fight for their nation or who were raped by the nation that they are wrong, and yet here you are defending it.

There is no other country more well versed in their own modern history than the Germans. They have shown true (genuine) remorse of their horrendous actions in World War 2, instituting laws and educational policies so such a thing could never happen again.

And yet there are still countless lawsuits by individuals suing for lost properties and damages caused by Germany during that time with the latest from Greece.

Awesome post Gokai_wo_maneku Well, the Japanese must be awful students considering if you ask them any specifics about ww2, they don't have a clue.

What I mean is that "apology rejection" is just part of the political culture of the area. Just like the middle east has to have war because their whole culture is built on war (i.e., Judeo-Christian-Islam culture is war culture). Also, did Britian apologize for its 3 century rampage around the world? Of course not. It is not part of the political dynamic. Also, history is white history so Britian gets a pass (which they give to themselves). Even Chinese believe white history.

The list of Japanese apologies goes on and on. It is not in anyone's interest (Japan, China, or S Korea) that these apologies be accepted.

By the way, Japanese HS text books do cover what Japanese did during wartime. Also, since none of you went to Japanese HS, I can tell you that even what the HS texts didn't tell, teachers teach using "supplementary materials" that they make. Teachers union and teachers are very Marxist. There are no lack of ugly pictures in "supplementary materials" made by HS teachers. Ask your Japanese friends to dig out some of that stuff.

And still people come and ask the same questions again, and again, and again.

I think you have misunderstood.

Most people (me included) do not go around demanding that their Japanese friends explain Japan's conduct in the war.

However, if, in the course of a conversation, a Japanese friend says something like... "Oh, of course Japan did some bad things in Asia during the war," ...then please try to ask them about what exactly Japan did.

Ask them to give an example of something specific.

I have tried that and it seems almost all my Japanese friends and acquaintances are either unable or unwilling to give any specific examples of the wrongdoing that they themselves say took place.

Please also notice that I am not passing any judgement on that.

I am just reporting what I have observed.

As for me, I think I can give specific example of my own country's wrongdoings, and am more than happy to tell about them and discuss them with anybody.

Sentiments Keep that rhetoric coming! Don't you dare try to group The Japanese with the Germans. There is no other country more well versed in their own modern history than the Germans. They have shown true (genuine) remorse of their horrendous actions in World War 2, instituting laws and educational policies so such a thing could never happen again. They are now an integral part of the European community. In fact, they could even be described as the de facto leader of the group. Then there is Japan Japan has basically done nothing to show remorse or to prevent (through educational policies/laws) such a thing from happening again. I'm sure you right wingers will bring up their "peace" constitution. Well this was handled to them by the US. Japan dragged its feet for decades before they actually made apologies, and these apologies have never been truly sincere. As said before, like a child reluctantly apologizing after he has been caught doing something naughty Well, you reap what you sow... Japan is now completely surrounded by countries that basically despise them (at the very least don't trust them), and its golden days are widely regarded as behind it. The only thing Japan has going for it is its relationship with the US. There are a lot of good people in Japan, but unfortunately they are unable to truly change.... So to summarize Japanese right wingers...Don't compare yourself to the Germans. It's insulting.

Yes I for one have experienced the same silence phenomenon with Japanese friends, and with german friends and of course everyone else that were ashamed of something. I wonder why? Is it possible that they already gave answers to everything there is to say from their point of view over and over again. If you did not partake in the war there is only so much you can know. And still people come and ask the same questions again, and again, and again. Well from my point of view, when there is nothing more to say it is time for silence, at least until the people asking the same old questions learn something better.

Samurai blue Awesome...Keep dipping into that Right winger handbook for those golden Soundbites.!

gaijinfo

And yet the famous words are is "The winners writes history".

One thing I have noticed when speaking to Japanese people is the following phenomenon...

[The conversation turns to the subject of World War II.]

Japanese friend or acquaintance says...

"Oh yes, well, Japan did some bad things in Asia..."

Me: "What exactly?"

Japanese friend: "................................................"

Me: "No, seriously, exactly what did Japan do that was bad...?"

Japanese friend: "..............................................."

Me: "I mean, like, one specific example of something bad..."

Japanese friend: "..............................................."

Try it with a Japanese friend or acquaintance... I have had almost exactly this conversation several times.

I would rather ask the advice from some guy rotting in jail for his mistakes than the advice from some priest who has no experience on the world whatsoever.

Funny how convicts only see the wrong of what they done AFTER they get caught, and found guilty.

Everybody rewrites history in their own favor. Strong countries win at war, and declare themselves righteous protectors of "freedom."

Weak countries try their hand at war, lose, and then paint themselves as righteous victims who can lecture other countries about the evils of war.

The only "evil" of war is not to lose.

What country has ever had the economic power to build up a fierce army only to not use it?

Japan didn't "choose" peace. It was forced upon them. They didn't "choose" to forego their military, they were forced to.

They are no better than a middle school student who was caught bullying another student and is being forced to apologize. Anybody who's been in Japan more than two weeks know that "official" Japanese apologies are about as genuine as a politician before election day.

Here's one way to compare if they are serious:

How many movies has Germany made about the Nazis?

How many movies has Japan made about Unit 731 or Nanjing?

some people are just trying a bit too hard to be Japanese. No nations on Earth is perfect, and that includes Japan.

A sincere apology between cultures. Why dont you people get real? Can you give one simple example on how such an apology could be executed? I mean one that would be accepted by the receiver. You seem to forget that an apology is an interpersonal operation. China and Korea are not standing on the other side to accept the apology. They seem to be happy to keep this guilt advantage and give an endless amount of complaint. There is no point for Japan to apologize anymore. Concerning different views and different actions from Japanese people over the years (including revisionist views), surprise, that is what we call a democracy. If Japan became a full fledged dictatorship they could possibly, at least publicly be reduced to one view - thus requiring only one apology.

This topic is a right wingers dream. They're all out in full force. Go get 'me tigers! All that rhetoric is starting to make sense now!

oh right...lets blame the rest of the world, east and west, for not cooperating with japan, hence forcing japan to take drastic measures like attacking them, raping them, etc...

ok so thats alike blaming rape on the woman, coz maybe she dressed too hot... or blame the test for being too hard, thats why you failed

Japan cannot apologize practically speaking. There are too many "patriotic" groups in China and S. Korea whose income depends on "Japan has never apologized", "Japan is a devil", "comfort women" etc. They will sabotage all attempts by Japan to apolotize (although China and S Korea did not mind taking billions of dollars from Japan in ODA etc) Yes, too many people's income in China and S Korea depend on these anti-Japanese "patriotic" groups. They make money by saying Japan has never apologized and that the apologies are fake (OK so thay are contradictory, so what). Just Google it. The Chinese that drove their boat to Senkaku is just such a group. They were running out of money and had to do something drastic. Ask anyone in HK.

Americans can not be the objective third party observer to judge if the Japanese views of the war against China or the relationship with Koreas. Obviously Americans have their own agenda to see the rightfulness of their own engagement in WWII, including the usage of A-bomb and air raids throughout Japan. From Japanese point of view, we are not denying the facts or not willing to apologize for what actually happened; but when the facts were clearly concocted by someone as "truth", how can you apologize for them.

tkoind2Dec. 15, 2012 - 10:31AM JST

Now if you can only see this in on dimension that is truly sad. A mentor, a leader is one who can share experience and help others avoid similar mistakes and similar suffering. That is why Japan has this opportunity. It has nothing to do with "sucking at war" which is in my opinion a juvenile interpretation of a very clear opportunity.

Completely agree. I would rather ask the advice from some guy rotting in jail for his mistakes than the advice from some priest who has no experience on the world whatsoever.

lol, you are taking the quote out of context. You're making it as if the entire blame goes to China and Korea when he was only trying to balance the issue.

??? He said "large share" of the blame. Those are his words.

See, what he doesn't realize is that the AWF was opposed by many victims of comfort women themselves. The AWF was set up by the Japanese government in order to avoid any legal responsibilities. Why did the apology not come officially from the Japanese government/state?

Actually, these women were pressured by Teitaikyou to not accept these funds. Their motives, as stated by Hon. Prof An Byeoung Jik of University is Seoul, in an effort to find out the truth and the structure of the comfort system, realized after three years that the organization was established to "pick a fight with Japan" and nothing more.

As for the legal responsibilities, there are none. This is already addressed in another article most notably from a post from hidingout. The legal responsibilities lies solely on the Korean government.

I would be laughing to the irony to this whole issue where both government of PRC and SK had signed a normalization treaty with Japan which is now a historical fact and yet both governments are pressing on to face history.

Auhh, now which govenments are not acting rationally?

Well the funny thing from the title of this thread is...

Thomas U Berger

Japan has apologized for waging aggressive war and oppressing its neighbors, but those apologies have fumbling and awkward, and often been undercut by revisionist statements from senior politicians. Japan has offered relatively little compensation to the victims. And to this day there are no nationally sponsored museums or monuments that acknowledge Japanese aggression or atrocities.

Thomas Anderson

There are no "LEGAL" issue/responsibilities of the Japanese government due to the nomalization treaty with Korea signed in 1965 in which both sides declared that;

It is confirmed that all treaties or agreements concluded between the Empire of Japan and the Empire of Korea on or before August 22, 1910 are already null and void.

As for compensation;

In January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty. The documents, kept secret for 40 years, recorded that South Korea agreed to demand no further compensation, either at the government or individual level, after receiving $800 million in grants and soft loans from Japan as compensation for its 1910–45 colonial rule in the treaty.

The documents also recorded that the Korean government demanded a total of 364 million dollars in compensation for the 1.03 million Koreans conscripted into the workforce and the military during the colonial period,[6] at a rate of 200 dollars per survivor, 1,650 dollars per death and 2,000 dollars per injured person.[7] However, the South Korean government used most of the grants for economic development,[8] failing to provide adequate compensation to victims by paying only 300,000 won per death in compensating victims of forced labor between 1975 and 1977.[9] Instead, the government spent most of the money establishing social infrastructures, founding POSCO, building Gyeongbu Expressway and the Soyang Dam with the technology transfer from Japanese companies.

The documents also reveals that the South Korean government claimed that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens who suffered during Japan's colonial rule while rejecting Japan's proposal to directly compensate individual victims and receiving the whole amount of grants on the behalf of victims.

As the result, there have been growing calls for the government to compensate the victims since the disclosure of the documents. A survey conducted shortly after the disclosure showed that more than 70 percent of Korean people believe the South Korean government should bear responsibility to pay for those victims (ibid.). The South Korean government announced that it will establish a team to deal with the appeals for compensation, although "It has been the government's position that compensation for losses during the Japanese occupation has already been settled".

after japan got nuked (most horrible war crime, like it or not), japanese paid for their past sins. they have repeatedly apologized, but apparently not to the satisfaction of the nations that demand an everyday-super-on-your-knees-with-tears apology.

lol, you are taking the quote out of context. You're making it as if the entire blame goes to China and Korea when he was only trying to balance the issue.

Thomas U Berger

This was most apparent with the Asian Women’s Fund, which the Korean government did not support and in fact subverted by establishing a separate, rival support system for the former comfort women. This has been made worse by the tendency of Korean politicians to score cheap points by very publicly taking out their frustrations with Japan — as when President Lee Myung-bak went to Dokdo/Takeshima recently.

See, what he doesn't realize is that the AWF was opposed by many victims of comfort women themselves. The AWF was set up by the Japanese government in order to avoid any legal responsibilities. Why did the apology not come officially from the Japanese government/state?

No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame.

Smitty and Thomas

This is the EXACT quote from Berger himself. (face palm)

Good day!! lol

NIgelboy You are wrong about Japan standing for peace because it "sucks at war". I sad to have to have to explain this.

Japan suffered through two two nuclear attacks. No other state on earth has experienced that. Because of that fact Japan can talk first hand to the experience and why it must be avoided for any nation in the future.

Japan was imperialistic using war to forward her national policies. This failed. As a result a generation was lost to war and the nation nearly destroyed. Again, Japan can speak here from experience to share that with nations who have not done so. Like a mentor teaching others an important lesson.

Japan swore of military actions as a policy tool. Few states have done this. It is an excellent example of progress.

Now if you can only see this in on dimension that is truly sad. A mentor, a leader is one who can share experience and help others avoid similar mistakes and similar suffering. That is why Japan has this opportunity. It has nothing to do with "sucking at war" which is in my opinion a juvenile interpretation of a very clear opportunity.

See what I mean... the denials and excuses keep pouring in. The main idea that they want to convey is that it was not Japan's fault, period. I don't care what the excuses are - they are excuses designed to deny Japan's responsibility for anything. In Japan, denialism is sadly institutionalized. What the guy said about Japanese culture unable to genuinely apologize for anything is sadly true. Fukushima? It was not my fault... it was the other guy's fault. Bullying? It was not my fault... etc, etc.

The real causes of war will be debated for decades to come. How about the U.S. forcible opening of closed Japan? How about Japan feeling the need not to end up a slave to the west, like China? How about the denial by the western powers (led by Australia) to treat Japanese as equal to whites(treaty of Paris) creating more resentment from Japanese against the west? How about the blockade of Japan? How about the Hull note? Hypothesizing about blame for a war like this is ridiculous.

The government should apologize for atrocities against civilians by the Japanese military, and be done with the rest. Apologize for a war 75 years ago? Sounds pretty random. How about wars started 98 years ago? Why don't we dig up Bismarck and have the Germans apologize for WWI? Or the French for Napoleon? Or the Mongols? Or the Macedonians?

Silliness.

nigelboy

So it’s all Japan’s fault? No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame.

No, it's not my fault!! It's the other guy's fault! I wonder if you actually have the ability to take responsibility for anything...

It's time to stop pretending that Japan has "apologized" when some idiot shows up and denies responsibility again and again.

It almost seems to be an inherent part of Japanese culture to be unable to genuinely apologize, and then only mumble some fake apology when the proof is shown beyond a doubt. This resonates throughout society, from corrupt politicians and electric companies denying everything under the sun until definitive proof comes out, to the issue in question. They then wait a few years for things to quiet down and deny it again, blaming everyone else and constantly deflecting. It's no wonder they're a laughing stock in such regards, and we're definitely going to get more rewriting and falsifying of history when Abe comes into power (again). I still remember when he was forced to retract his statements that Imperial troops never engaged in sex with the sex slaves, having to admit the latter issue also existed, after being given proof that his claims were incorrect. Did he apologize? no. He just looked embarrassed and tried to justify his lies.

nigelboy: "No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame."

And you wonder why people say the Japanese apologies are insincere and why other nations question them.

Then China and Korea look foolish trying to press it further. The world will understand that change and accept it. Germany was very successful with this approach to her history. Japan should be too.

I doubt it. It simply boils down to who continuously cries the most. Japan should just stop engaging in this non sense.

@semperfi

The Japanese Canada, US apologies were real: compensation was paid from the public coffers to everyone directly affected and official apologies came from the gov't legislatures, and were NOT personal apologies from politicians, as Japan has done. Citizenship was reinstated to those who had lost theirs as a result.

Japan's one attempt at such an "apology" in 1995 was watered down to satisfy the right wingers, even portraying Japan as a victim. THAT is what Japan's victims object to.

Oh . . .........is that like Canada and USA's "fumbling and awkward" apologies for wholeaale appropriation of Japanese properties and businesses and interring Japanese women, old men, & children in shacks during the war - - while their boys fought on the western front ?????

semperfi -- you missed by a country mile on that one. The USA's apologies to the Japanese-Americans have been far from "fumbling and awkward". There have been Presidential proclamations, acts of Congress and significant reparations paid. When Japan can meet that standard, you can spout your anti-U.S.-nonsense. And , by the way, I really hope you were not a marine, you give the rest of us proud veterans a bad name.

This kind of revisionist history is exactly what makes Japan's role in Asia stunted when it could be so much more.

I wouldn't quite call it "revisionist history." There's a pretty good argument that Japan was suckered into attacking the U.S. so the U.S. could enter into the war in Europe.

http://www.amazon.com/Day-Of-Deceit-Truth-Harbor/dp/0743201299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355527792&sr=8-1&keywords=day+of+deceit

Had Japan done this, it could stand on very high moral ground as a peace keeping and peace supporting state.

I seriously doubt that. Japan had full intentions of subjugating Asia the world through imperialist tactics. Then THEY FAILED. Only truly peaceful nations who have ALWAYS BEEN PEACEFUL can ever be "moral authorities" on the subject. The argument, "We are the leaders of peace because we suck at war" is not going to convince anybody, no matter how much hand wringing politicians do.

Japan is missing one of the most profound opportunities in all of history. As the only nation to experience a nuclear conflict, as a nation devastated by a war it invited and started and a nation intelligent enough to swear off war in the future, Japan could have been the new Switzerland. A new state dedicated to leadership in the world for peace. All it had to do was one simple started. Fully accept full responsibility for WWII in Asia.

I have no idea what this means. Switzerland has an armed forces as well as a mandatory draft. Being neutral, as it appears does not automatically mean peace.

One foot in front of the other. Japan does the right thing. It changes how it teaches history. It changes its policies about history. It stops idealizing the imperial period and it stands for non-military resolution of problems and becomes the new Switzerland. All of this is profoundly good for Japan.

Then China and Korea look foolish trying to press it further. The world will understand that change and accept it. Germany was very successful with this approach to her history. Japan should be too.

The alternative is to continue giving validation to nuts in the right who want a military Japan again and conflict with Asia. A potential to repeat the forlorn charge of the last war. From Day 1 WWII was lost for Japan based purely upon economic, industrial, natural resource and geographical considerations alone. Forget spirit, the die was cast from day 1, inevitable defeat.

A new war, would be even bloodier and even more absolute in the destruction of Japan. So we have to stop the mindless dreams of the right by embracing history and changing Japan's stance on the world stage.

nigelboy. The downstream issues you raise are interesting. But they do not address the core issue. Japan should definitively change her approach to history. Own up all that has happened and take the moral high ground.

It doesn't matter what China or Korea do as a result if Japan has been entirely forthcoming. Japan will be on the moral high ground and the burden of change will shift to both China and Korea.

semperfi. Separate issues. I do think that the US carried out a humanitarian crime with their actions against Japanese Nise in the US during the war. And yes they should do more to reconcile that. I agree 100%.

That does not in any way dismiss the need for Japan to stop rewriting history and teaching the people here revisionist stories that help fuel the idiotic right wing parties and their policies. It is self destructive to Japan to do so.

Let's continue what this guy said.

So it’s all Japan’s fault?

No, the Koreans and the Chinese bear a large share of the blame. With the Koreans, there has been an unwillingness to help the Japanese find ways of reconciling when the Japanese have tried to do so. This was most apparent with the Asian Women’s Fund, which the Korean government did not support and in fact subverted by establishing a separate, rival support system for the former comfort women. This has been made worse by the tendency of Korean politicians to score cheap points by very publicly taking out their frustrations with Japan — as when President Lee Myung-bak went to Dokdo/Takeshima recently.

There is good reason to question whether the Chinese really want or care about reconciliation.  When Jiang Zemin went to Tokyo in 1998, he hectored the Japanese about the past in ways that prevented the Japanese from offering the kind of written apology that they gave South Korea President Kim Dae-jung that same year.

Chinese leaders have preferred taking a hard line on Japan. This has been especially so when there are divisions in the Chinese leadership, and on a deeper level may have something to do with the Chinese leadership being deeply worried about their legitimacy. While Korean leaders are frequently unpopular, there is strong support for the Korean political system and pride in its democratic institutions, but Chinese leaders need to strike a nationalistic tone in part because there is greater internal skepticism about one-party rule.

Oh . . .........is that like Canada and USA's "fumbling and awkward" apologies for wholeaale appropriation of Japanese properties and businesses and interring Japanese women, old men, & children in shacks during the war - - while their boys fought on the western front ?????

Two nights ago in History channel some pseudo intellectual professor was doing a Q&A on why WWII began for Japan and why Dec.7th happened. He squarely blamed Roosevelt's desire to enter the European war for the Japan's necessity to attack the US.

This kind of revisionist history is exactly what makes Japan's role in Asia stunted when it could be so much more.

He entirely ignored the preceding decade of Japanese imperialism and aggression in Asia that led to policies from the US and other states to try to restrict Japan's expansionism. Ignoring their actions in Korea, in Manchuria and China.

So long as the academic establishment here has the audacity to play victim for WWII nothing will improve.

Japan is missing one of the most profound opportunities in all of history. As the only nation to experience a nuclear conflict, as a nation devastated by a war it invited and started and a nation intelligent enough to swear off war in the future, Japan could have been the new Switzerland. A new state dedicated to leadership in the world for peace. All it had to do was one simple started. Fully accept full responsibility for WWII in Asia.

Had Japan done this, it could stand on very high moral ground as a peace keeping and peace supporting state. It could claim a rightful place on the UN Security Council and be a beacon example. This could have helped the country financially, politically and raised Japan's global image.

But no... rightwing revisionists won out and we still cannot get a clear statement of acceptance for the war without some right wing rationale. The missed opportunity for a country I do love and care for, is heartbreaking.