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Baseball great Rose discredits Ichiro hits chase

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I love Ichiro and am not really a Rose fan but in this case Rose is right.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

There are too many guys that fail here, and then become household names there, like Tuffy Rhodes.

Who?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Let's separate the message from the messenger. Rose is an idiot who bet on the game - the one thing you absolutely cannot do and then lied about it for decades. He was rightly banned from the game and that ban should never be rescinded.

That said, Japanese baseball is not MLB. Level baseball. It's AAA level minor league at best.

I love Ichiro and getting 3,000 hits over his career in MLB, especially when he started at age 28 is truly impressive. He's a first ballot HOF candidate. But he won't be considered the all-time hits leader.

3 ( +9 / -5 )

sour grapes if you ask m.

-4 ( +10 / -13 )

backscratcherJun. 15, 2016 - 12:47PM JST There are too many guys that fail here, and then become household names there, like Tuffy Rhodes. Who?

Wladimir Balentien, Matt Murton, Randy Bass, Alex Ramirez, To name a few more....

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yeah and most all Japanese players that succeed in the Major Leagues are pitchers who collectively rakes up so many Ks because the major league batters can't hit the ball straight.

-2 ( +4 / -5 )

It's AAA level minor league at best.

Actually some of the players, are MLB level, so I would at least make it 4A.

Yeah and most all Japanese players that succeed in the Major Leagues are pitchers who collectively rakes up so many Ks because the major league batters can't hit the ball straight.

What do you mean? Hit the ball straight? That doesnt make sense.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Question is, is it a MLB hit record or is it a hit record? If the record is MLB hits ok but I dont think it is. Which means that Rose is saying that the MLB is the only league that counts. Which is rubbish. Since their Olympic Gold in 2000 the US have won nothing and didnt even pre-qualify for the 2004 Olympics. As for their WBC record. Counting his high school hits next? Pure jealousy.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

4A seems to be the best comparison. What I always get a kick out of is how some of the better Japanese players go over to the US, with lofty home run numbers, but can never duplicate those in the MLB. Then they come back to Japan, and start cranking them out again. So there must be something said for the quality of the baseball played here and in the MLB.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

In any case, Ichiro is a great baseball player with top notch consistency.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

I can't stand Rose. Yes, he did bet on the game and that is just wrong as wrong can be. However, he does belong in the HOF because we are talking about the game itself and what he did on it as a player, not a coach. As for Ichiro surpassing Rose and being counted as the all time hits leader, no way. He is a great player, but the Pro Yakkyu is still not up to par with the majors at all so it should be solely based on his performance in the majors. I am sure that he will easily get in the HOF where he belongs on the first try. To be honest, I really wish that he could be counted, but the levels were and are different.

@TigersTokyoDome - Problem is that the USA did not field its best players because most major league players do not want to involve themselves in anything less than playing in the majors and they are not all the serious about it either. They are just out to have a good time cause guess what? They already made the major leagues and they don't want to get injured and lose money. Also, a lot of foreign players are playing in the majors and those players surely will not play for the USA, will they? That has nothing to do with the subject at hand though.

@ backscratcher WHO? Randy Bass, Warren Cromartie, Ralph Bryant, Jack Howell, Tom O'Malley, Tuffy Rhodes, Glenn Braggs, Boomer Wells, Orestes Destrade, Bobby Rose, Wladimir Balentien, alex Caberra, just to name a very few. Tuffy Rhodes would have broke Sadaahru Oh's single season home run record but opposing pitchers refused to pitch to him after he was at 55 and was clearly going to be the record. Oh and let's not forget Cecil Fielder.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

What I always get a kick out of is how some of the better Japanese players go over to the US, with lofty home run numbers, but can never duplicate those in the MLB. Then they come back to Japan, and start cranking them out again. So there must be something said for the quality of the baseball played here and in the MLB.

As a good example to dispel the theory of MLB being so mighty. Ichiro got 1,278 of hits in Japan over 9 years. He then got 2,977 hits in MLB over 15 years. Hit Average Japan 142 per year. Hit Average US 198 per year.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

“I don’t think you’re going to find anybody with credibility say that Japanese baseball is equivalent to major-league baseball. There are too many guys that fail here, and then become household names there, like Tuffy Rhodes. How can he not do anything here, and hit 55 home runs (in 2001) over there? It has something to do with the caliber of personnel.”

Ouch! Hurts so much because it is 100% spot on.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

None of this makes sense, wouldn't a better representation be in ? That's what they do in football as there would be no point whatsoever in saying total hits over a career, but even saying hits in career in the league is stupid as well. I guess you can't expect too much of Baseball players, always disappointing

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I shall probably stop being curious about north American baseball after Ichiro retires.

Any though, TigersTokyoDome cited these statistics (and was voted down(???!?):

As a good example to dispel the theory of MLB being so mighty. Ichiro got 1,278 of hits in Japan over 9 years. He then got 2,977 hits in MLB over 15 years. Hit Average Japan 142 per year. Hit Average US 198 per year.

About comparing Japanese and Major League baseball, or at least the issue which is Ichiro's performances in each, I don't think that anymore needs to be said, even by Pete Rose.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

As a good example to dispel the theory of MLB being so mighty. Ichiro got 1,278 of hits in Japan over 9 years. He then got 2,977 hits in MLB over 15 years. Hit Average Japan 142 per year. Hit Average US 198 per year.

Dispel the theory? You need to do a better job than that. Ichiro's stats in the MLB are over a 162 game schedule vs the season that Ichiro had 210 hits in a 130 game season. He also only had a total of something like 50 hits in his first two seasons of play.

He had 1142 hits over the course of 7 seasons and an average of 160 plus hits during a 130 game season.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What counts most is that Ichiro himself doesn't give a rat's ass about all the fuss and the opinions of the so called pundits including those on this forum.

6 ( +8 / -1 )

Pete who?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Ichiro is all about the statistics, great player but hes more about himself and not the team. which is another reason why his 15yrs in the majors he hasn't won a world series?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@Perry Kinman Pete Blows

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Tuffy Rhodes. Who?

Wladimir Balentien, Matt Murton, Randy Bass, Alex Ramirez, To name a few more....

Thank you for that. However, my point was that I had no idea who Tuffy Rhodes was. I do not watch baseball and had never heard of him until Pete Rose brought him up. I have heard of Ichiro and so have most Japanese and Americans.

Ichiro is a household name both in Japan and in the US. Tuffy Rhodes is not.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Rose is correct about the difference in the level of play. Japan plays small ball. In the not-too-distant past, Japanese pitchers conspired to walk any foreign batter who threatened to break Oh Sadaharu's homerun record when, ironically, Oh himself is half Chinese and probably wouldn't have made it in the majors back in his day. Ichiro faces no such discrimination playing in the big leagues.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Ichiro is all about the statistics, great player but hes more about himself and not the team. which is another reason why his 15yrs in the majors he hasn't won a world series?

Ichiro IS about Ichiro, in all the years he has been in the states he still continues to use an interpreter to "talk" with the media. He is fortunate to find a MLB team willing to contract him, and the Marlins figured that the money they could make off of the media and Japanese fans that have been following the team in his chase for 3,000 and Rose's record would offset the relative pittance (In MLB it is a relative amount) they contracted him for would be worth it.

Few if other teams would be willing to use a roster spot for a 42 year old right fielder who can not hit for power.

Oh himself is half Chinese and probably wouldn't have made it in the majors back in his day. Ichiro faces no such discrimination playing in the big leagues.

A fact glossed over by him being Asian and not western-white or of color.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Why not just say it's a "career" record. Let Ichiro pass Rose in the "career" hits column. Then ... the main one ... the Major League record. To get a Major League record a player has to compile all of his achievements while playing in the Majors. If we're going to include minor league records, then Joe DiMaggio would have a longer consecutive games hit record than the one he now holds in the Majors. While playing in the minors DiMaggio hit in more consecutive games. I didn't have time here to look up the two separate records ... but if you want to do so, please do. And if some want to include minor league records as equal to those achieved in the Major Leagues, don't overlook Dick Stuart's 100 homers hit in a single season while with, I think, Hollywood, while in the minors. Stuart was a good home run hitter, but he couldn't catch a ball at his position at first base. Thus "iron" glove Stuart.

No matter where you're playing, 4,256 hits is a lot of hits. So let's give Ichiro some kind of credit for this remarkable achievement when he passes that mark. And just give him the "career" hit record. Moreover ... the way he's playing ... he's just going to keep piling hits on top of hits in his pursuit way down the road in his search for the Major League record.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Why not just say it's a "career" record. Let Ichiro pass Rose in the "career" hits column.

I agree, that's well and good but the Japanese press will not agree as they are playing it as "Sekai no Ichiro" as the "World Record" which in the eyes of the public here means that Ichiro is or soon will be the WORLD hits leader.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What a sour grapes.....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Dick Stuart's 100 homers hit in a single season while with, I think, Hollywood, while in the minors.

The figure was actually 66, not 100. Ref: /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Stuart

I remember when he was here playing for the Taiyo Whales.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's fair to say that Rose holds the MLB record and Ichiro will hold the combined MLB/NPB record, and people can evaluate that as they like. What I don't understand is why Rose can't just show an ounce of class and refrain from taking dump on what Ichiro is accomplishing, nobody is trying to take his record away from him and he just comes off as a narcissistic, defensive jerk whenever he opens his mouth on the subject.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I am a life long baseball fan, and I am disgusted by the way Pete Rose played baseball, so anything he says in criticism of someone else I will take with a big grain of salt.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I do not totally disagree with the fact that Japanese baseball appears to be a bit inferior to major league ball, but Ichiro did not play as many games as they do in the U.S. teams do in any one season and would have more hits here in Japan if he had. Forget the record, but I am sure that is why Ichiro came back this season. Despite his sometimes snobbish character especially to Japanese media, Ichiro has always played the game with the greatest dignity and respect for those he played against. Small ball hitter usually, but used to be able to crank a few out of the ballpark. His hits, along with his defensive skills as an outfielder and base running will be my memory of Ichiro. To be honest, would love to see Ichiro voted in on the All Star team this year as I am sure this is his last season in the Majors. Might be fitting to acknowledge what he has accomplished. Does anyone think that might happen?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Tigers TokyoDome... next time do some actual research. Of the 9 Seasons Ichiro played in Japan.... the first 2 he had a total of 36 hits in 159 plate appearances. So his real stats more so cover the 7 years after they made him a starter. Over those 7 years he averaged approximately 180 hits a season on an average of 510 plate appearances each year. Basically he reached base on hits 35% of the time. In the MLB Ichiro averaged around 210 each year on an average of 680 plate appearances. He reached base 31% of the time in the MLB. I'm not averaging in the last 3 years of his numbers either. Either way his numbers were amazing and in my book Ichiro might be the best overall player baseball has ever seen. I think he deserves the record with an asterisk.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

. What I don't understand is why Rose can't just show an ounce of class

Rose has never shown class. Never.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Ichiro is amazing. Glad I got see him play (as a Mariner) a couple times when he came to Anaheim.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

At the end of the day, Ichiro will be in the Hall of Fame before Pete Rose. My money is on Pete Rose getting in after he passes away as a sort of sympathy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Pete Rose battled on games he was playing : Pete was rigging games then. When Ichiro.so contract expired, Marlin grabbed him and this y Dar, not in losing track. When someone breaks his record, baseball Pl Aayers con grTulate and this is the first time sourgrape mKing fool himself.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yubaru, Ichiro cannot hit for power? From ESPN :

he is renowned for launching balls into the seats during batting practice, and recently, he hit several into the distant upper deck at Target Field.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I've never been a fan of Pete but he has a point.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@fglenn "disgusted by the way Rose played the game?"

he played the game the way its supposed to be played. with hustle and grit. Sure he ploughed into catchers but he gave 100 percent every game. Its what he did after he retired that was bad

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Have you watched the games he played? when home umpire calls strike out, he argued until third strike was changed. to ball. His action of protesting umpire decision was called Rose's home base argument. That was the reason MLB use pitched ball analizer now, on TV, commented show which corner outside,insiddde etch explanation we hear. Home base argument, and that was his nickname.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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