baseball

Darvish says Astros should be stripped of 2017 World Series title

17 Comments
By BRIAN M. BERGNER JR

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Away games are going to be very, very interesting for the Astros this year.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Yup, they should be stripped but the commish is too soft to do it. Hope they spend the season bailing out from inside heaters or taking a lot of chin music.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The MLB not stripping them of the title was a huge letdown. The Dodgers and Yankees averaged multiple HR heading into those games but couldn't get any during those games.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Yes, the Astros should be stripped of their WS title

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Since the game started baseball players and teams have been cheating: doctoring the ball, doctoring the bat, stealing signs, referees, and chemical performance enhancement.

It isn't exclusive to baseball. Tom Brady is another well-known cheat in football. It is like the current WH administration, the impeachment and the Senate.

The reason that the Astros were not stripped because other teams and players do it too. They fear that they would get exposed for something illegal too if it goes any further.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Commissioner Rob Manfred said that he would uphold the

"long tradition in baseball of not trying to change what happened."

The Boston Red Sox was also caught stealing signs the year that they got caught stealing signs!

doctoring the ball:

Famous Examples: Gaylord Perry may be the most notorious (and celebrated) practitioner of sneaky mound behavior. He won 314 games and made the Hall of Fame. In 1987, Minnesota pitcher Joe Niekro was suspended for carrying an emery board and sandpaper in his back pocket.

doctoring the bat:

Famous Example: In 2003, Sammy Sosa broke his bat in a game and was ejected when umpires found cork inside. Sosa said he used the corked bat to put on fan-pleasing shows in batting practice, but erroneously used it in a game. He served a seven-game suspension.

stealing signs:

Famous Example: The 1951 New York Giants beat out Brooklyn for the National League pennant on Bobby Thomson's famous homer. About a decade ago, The Wall Street Journal quoted Hall of Fame outfielder Monte Irvin, catcher Sal Yvars and pitcher Al Gettel as admitting the Giants stole catchers' signs. The Journal said the Giants would relay signals from their center-field clubhouse to the bullpen with a buzzer system created by an electrician. Yvars said he then relayed signals to hitters.

chemical performance enhancement:

Famous Examples: Mark McGwire, who hit 583 homers in his career, has admitted using steroids and human growth hormone. Rafael Palmeiro, who reached both the 500-homer and 3,000-hit marks, was suspended in 2005 for a positive test for PEDs. He claimed it was due to a vitamin vial given to him by a teammate.

Alex Rodriguez has admitted he used PEDs while with the Texas Rangers from 2001-03, before Major League Baseball and the players' union started their joint drug program.

Plenty of others are under suspicion, too -- witness the Hall of Fame vote, in which baseball writers didn't give any player the 75 percent required for induction this year.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The Boston Red Sox was also caught stealing signs the year that they got caught stealing signs!

I mean won the World series!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Numan

We can't use PED's as an example. Vast majority of players have been doping since the 90's. We would realistically have to get rid of several generations of baseball.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@JJ Jetplane

We can't use PED's as an example. Vast majority of players have been doping since the 90's. We would realistically have to get rid of several generations of baseball.

What????

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The entire team knew of the cheating and either went along or were participants. When a player like Carlos Correa lacks contrition and defiantly cries against accusers, I wonder how any player or fan of an opposing team will not want to ridicule Houston as cheaters who cannot deal with being caught, and fail to understand their World Series win is tainted as greatly as any champion who cheated in the history of sports.

Their title should be taken away, and the organization should be suspended for an entire season. As is, there are going to be a lot of anger and possible eruptions this coming season. The difference between past MLB cheats, is this is about an entire team and organization knowingly breaking rules, and acting like it was proper to boast of winning a World Series. Unreal, but not so unbelievable in this era of blatant lies.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Pitcher Alex Wood's reaction to the Astros illegal sign stealing:

https://twitter.com/awood45/status/1217923855156760577

"I would rather face a player that was taking steroids than face a player that knew every pitch that was coming."

People forget when PED-enhanced Barry Bonds set the MLB record hitting 73 HRs in a season, he also struck out 93 times that year (2001). Even Bonds knew all that PED muscles won't help him when he guesses the wrong pitch.

Why is Alex Wood significant in this case? Because the year the Astros won the World Series (2017), the only game the Astros lost at home in the playoffs was when Wood as the opposing starting pitcher. The Astros won all their other home games that postseason (8W-1L).

But to accomplish that, Wood and his catcher had to go quite extreme - perceiving that the Astros were stealing signs but not sure how, Wood and his catcher decided to change signs after just every 8 pitches. They slogged thru doing that for 5-2/3 innings, but limited the Astros to just 1 hit & 1 run. That's how they won the game at Houston's home field.

The Dodgers and Yankees averaged multiple HR heading into those games but couldn't get any during those games.

The illegal sign stealing only affected Houston batters and opposing pitchers

Not Houston pitchers and opposing batters

The reason that the Astros were not stripped because other teams and players do it too. They fear that they would get exposed for something illegal too if it goes any further.

Sign stealing within the confines of the field is allowed

So far, besides the Astros and the Red Sox, there's no sign (pardon the pun) of other teams stealing signs illegally - particularly using electronic equipment

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Their title needs to be stripped or Pete Rose needs to be in Cooperstown next year.

Darvish has a point but he was off during that series

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

SOOOOOO RIGHT !!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There's no way to tell if Darvish was off during that world series, the opposition were cheating, thus turning sneaky off speed stuff into meatballs.

Pete Rose needs to be in Cooperstown. Period. He never bet against his team, and look at how MLB is now pushing betting on baseball. What Pete did was unsavory, but did not affect the game. The Astros cheated their way to a ring, and multiple post seasons.

I feel really sorry for Darvish. His confidence took a blow, and he got very unfairly blamed. I hope he has a great season this year.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There's no way to tell if Darvish was off during that world series, the opposition were cheating, thus turning sneaky off speed stuff into meatballs.

The 2 games that Darvish started in the 2017 World Series - Game 3 was in Houston, but Game 7 was in LA (where the Astros couldn't use their cheating camera equipment)

Both times he only lasted 1.2 innings, while giving up 4 earned runs each time

Draw your own conclusions

He never bet against his team... What Pete did was unsavory, but did not affect the game.

That could still affect how he managed his team. If he bet money for his team to win a particular game, he may had players do stuff that he normally wouldn't have done - like say putting in a good batter or pitcher who would normally got the day off to rest (basically sacrificing the player's health as well as later games in the season when he could had used that player in good health, just to win the bet in that one game)

Think of it this way: if you're a manager and you have money in a game, then you may treat that one game like you're in Game 7 of the finals - all hands on deck, everybody's available to play no matter what their condition, you'll gonna manage that one game like it's the last game of your life (who cares what happens in the next game because the next game doesn't have your money - Pete Rose didn't bet on every single game, just many games here and there)

Anyways, it's not just the betting but also that he denied it for 15 years before finally admitting the truth. Maybe Pete Rose paid the price enough, and let the Veterans Committee finally vote to decide whether he gets into the Hall of Fame or not (they may still not vote him in)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Rose was a player. He played good clean hard baseball. His numbers say he should be there. Trying his best to win games, putting guys in he knew were hot, was his job! He wanted so desperately to win. Pete was not managing to bet to lose games He was raising the stakes of the game at risk to his own bank balance. Managers are always accused of over using good pitchers. Maddon is prone to it. It does not mean he is ineligible for Cooperstown!

Most hits, most singles. No peds. Pete deserves to be there as a player.

Ty Cobb is in the hall of fame, so the commish can drop the whole pretence that only good guys get to go.

The Astros are alleged to have cheated on the road too. I believe they did. They knew every pitch that was coming from Darvish in all those games. Even I could dang well hit it out the park if I knew an off speed pitch was heading my way.

"It’s also been determined the Astros’ cheating extended to road games, with director of advance information Tom Koch-Weser asserting Luhnow would

But everything started with Codebreaker, and the use of it to steal signs continued into 2018—not just at home, but also on the road."

>

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Rose was a player. He played good clean hard baseball. His numbers say he should be there. Trying his best to win games, putting guys in he knew were hot, was his job! He wanted so desperately to win. Pete was not managing to bet to lose games He was raising the stakes of the game at risk to his own bank balance. Managers are always accused of over using good pitchers. Maddon is prone to it. It does not mean he is ineligible for Cooperstown!

Nobody doubts Pete Rose as a player deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. The issue with him was that his betting put disrepute to the game and denying it for so long

Again, betting changes the stakes of managing. When you put money in the game, your actions become suspect - are you more motivated to help your team win for the whole season of 162 games, or are you more motivated to win that 1 game for the money even if it means losing the next 4-5 games because you used up all your players for that 1 game

A regular manager would not sacrifice those 4-5 games just to win that 1 game in a regular season

As I already explained above, when money is involved, people tend to go overboard - there's overusing players, and then there's treating the game like it's Game 7 that's a whole another level. That's going above and beyond just to win 1 game in a regular season, just to win money in a bet

Anyways, as the HOF rules are right now, the only way Pete Rose can get in is thru the voting of the Veterans Committee. All his other avenues of getting in has already expired, particularly the Writers Vote. There's no guarantee that the Veterans Committee will vote him in because the Veterans Committee are even more traditionalists

The Astros are alleged to have cheated on the road too. I believe they did.

If you know how they cheated, you'll realize it'll be difficult to replicate it on the road

How they cheated was by using a center-field camera pointed at the catcher, then relaying that video to a computer in the dugout that deciphered the signals. On the road, they would not have been able to set up that camera equipment running all the way to their dugout without anyone of the opponent's stadium noticing. The Astros don't run those away stadiums, and they wouldn't want to risk people finding out what they do at their home stadium by taking a chance setting it up at an opponent's stadium

That's why the Astros batting splits home vs. away were so different:

"In Light Of Sign-Stealing Allegations, The Astros’ Home And Road Batting Splits From The 2017 Postseason Are Stunningly Lopsided"

https://brobible.com/sports/article/astros-home-road-batting-splits-2017-postseason/

In the Astros’ 9 road games, the team batted .208 with a .284 on-base percentage, a .347 slugging percentage, and scored an average of 3 runs per game, winning 3 and losing 6.

In the Astros’ 9 home games, they batted .273 with a .343 on-base percentage, a .519 slugging percentage, and score an average of 5.7 runs per game, winning 8 and losing just 1 game.

The splits are equally as striking when taking a look at some individual Astros’ players’ home and road splits in the 2017 postseason.

Alex Bregman: Road – .154 BA, .508 OPS; Home – .273 BA, .857 OPS.

Carlos Correa: Road – .211 BA, .626 OPS; Home – .371 BA, 1.164 OPS.

Jose Altuve: Road – .143 BA, .497 OPS; Home – .472 BA, 1.541 OPS.

Brian McCann: Road – .037 BA, .198 OPS; Home – .300 BA, .849 OPS.

Evan Gattis: Road – .200 BA, .533 OPS; Home – .300 BA, 1.014 OPS.

They suck on the road

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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