Hanyu defied crash warning, says coach

I re-iterate what I said in an ealier posting - it's not the athletes call.

In modern pro sports (and many amateur) any injury to the head is viewed as in the "most serious category".

Without calling out the skills & professionalism of the attending medicos in Shangai, it's extremely doubtful if an accurate appraisal of Hanyu's injury could be made in such a short time. All cases are different and no text book can cover any one scenario.

The fact that he had cranial bruising, skull & jaw stitching and staples leaves little room for doubt over whether to continue or not. Would any top athlete have been allowed to continue with such injuries? Would Federer continued playing a grand-slam?

As much as there are certain acknowledgements for the coach Orser's predicament, it should just have been written-in-law that any competitor involved in such an incident is retired from the event.

Athletes health is the #1 priority in sports, elite or otherwise. No glory in blood on the ice.

Foolish.

If he had a concussion, he could have killed himself. You mix concussions and spinning around, you get a bleeding brain and/or aneurysm cocktail, with a touch of never walking again or a dash of death.

cranial bruising............ I think that's just other words for a concussion!

I hope the kid doesn't hurt himself, seems rather reckless!

I saw that on TV. Initially he had a bandaid on his chin, but after getting off the rink he took the bandaid off to show the blood dripping down his chin for the cameras. And then burst into tears. Without doubt he was in pain, but the incident also seemed a little "played up" for the cameras

He is very brave. Don't ever forget he is from the Tokoku area, and the effects of 3/11 are always part of his motivation. I applaud him deeply.

This story is very misleading. “after medical staff had ruled out concussion” is not correct. Not staff, but “DOCTORS” had ruled out concussion. Also, today in an interview with Mainichi Newspaper, Orser said probably he would have made the same decision to compete, the type of athletes who become champions compete when they believe they can and top athletes have that character. Also, Brain said that Hanyu is tolerant and very polite. ( http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20141201-00000097-mai-spo ) I don’t think Hanyu ignored pleas.

This story do not reflect the fact that Orser, Japanese skate federation and trainer discussed with Hanyu and based on his condition, it was decided to compete at NHK.

Educator - my thoughts exactly. He came home in a wheel chair, so one would suspect that his ankle(?) injury would have left him less than capable of performing well.

And I'll say again - the manner in which this incident was treated is a reflection on the far less than adequate assessment procedures necessary for a head injury. The fact that he fell 5 times in his performance confirms that all was not ay - ok!

And this has nothing to do with Tohoku Ganbarimasu Samurai Spirit. But it has a lot to do with inferior sports medical practices in the 21st C.

In addition to the above, Doctor also discussed with Hanyu and it was decided. Hanyu is NOT reckless.

Max - I agree - Hanyu was not reckless.It's not his fault. He was not in the position to make a sound judgement. His handlers and the medicos were however reckless.

No matter how much this is spun - all the latest research indicates the best procedures will always err on the side of caution re head injuries. Always. There is a mountain of supporting evidence & material out there.

browny1, it could be true, but you were not privy to the medical information. Third party who were not there and do not have detailed information should refrain from judging. My point is that this story is not correct. Hanyu did not ignore nor defy his coach. Should read the various articles at Orser's press conference at Canadian embassy on Dec. 1.

Max - thanks for your reply.

Re - making a comment - yes I wasn't there & don't have detailed information, but I believe I can make a comment based on the known facts. The known facts: 1) Hanyu had a heavy collision. 2) Hanyu had head lacerations that required stitching and stapling. 3) Hanyu had cranial bruising (ie some level of internal bleeding) 4) Hanyu had a leg / ankle injury. 5) Hanyu fell 5 times during his performance (not a good sign after a head impact) 6) Hanyu was wheel chair bound after the tournament and for his return home.

These known facts enabled me to make an educated guess on whether he was in a fit enough condition to compete, especially with the possibility of further injury if he fell heavily.

And as I said - if you are familiar with current sports practices you will know that head injuries of the type Hanyu sustained would be closely monitored for an extended length of time.

I don't know, but it appears he made the call himself to continue and no one was stopping him. A head injured person often cannot make the correct call.

Browny- Thx for your reply. Technically, you can speculate on this forever. But, the fact is that the doctors said Hanyu didn't have concussion and was OK to compete. Also, after he came back to Japan, he also had detailed medical tests by doctors and was reconfirmed that he didn't have concussion. As it was announced by Japan skate federation, the coach, JSF, trainer, they all discussed with the doctor's advice and decided that Hanyu could compete at NHK. I don't know if you saw Hanyu's interview, but he described that he had to lie down on the ice for a while after the incident because he was hit in the solar plexus, not because of the head damage. The third party should not judge based on the impressions. To be honest, I also thought he shouldn't have competed, but the truth was that he got approval by the doctors and it was none of my business. By the way, I also watch soccer, ice hockey and baseball. When some incidents happen, doctors check and say no concussion, players come back ( sometimes, with bandages and stitches ) and keep playing.

Max - again thank you. I agrre with a lot of your sentiments and as you suggest, speculation could go on forever. A critical point of disagreement however is you stating that it's not our right to comment or it's not our business.

I quite frankly believe the opposite. When high profile, elite, sporting events are put to the public, we the fans are engaged and we the fans have participatory rights that may be as limited as expressing a view. But it is us the audience that creates the situation, for without the audience the $billions would not exist and the grand stage would not exist and the athletes abilities would not be appreciated. It is our business to know. We the fans have a right for transparency and clarity in explanation of the actions of the participants and their welfare. Hanyu's private life is his for his world, but when any athlete steps onto a public world stage they must accept the presence and scrutiny of observers(I'm sure Hanyu does).

And by my comments re the medical check, I was not questioning "they said it's ok", I was questioning whether they, and as you mentioned other medicos, are really up to it - you know beyond the "how many fingers am I holding up" level. A lot of poor support nets still out there. A doctor at a prefectural judo event a while back didn't know how to perform cpr. But I digress. Thanks for the discussion.

browny - I don't want to argue with you and want to end this discussion. Please note that Japan Skate Federation, his coach and Hanyu released the fan-need-to-know information as you hope. According to it, they did what they could do at that time and should not be thought as "reckless".

As you might know, Hanyu was checked by American doctor at CoC. America is the country which even hold "White House Healthy Kids & Safe Sports Concussion Summit".

Anyway, as I wrote before, my point was Hanyu did not ignore nor defy his coach and this story is very misleading and incorrect.

Thank you for the discussion.

Educator - my thoughts exactly. He came home in a wheel chair, so one would suspect that his ankle(?) injury would have left him less than capable of performing well.

I thought the wheelchair was because of his head injury. Getting hit on the chin can mess up your legs, especially when you are as delicate as him; and it could have caused back pain too.

I can’t believe this story is still on this site. Cranial?????????????????? Again, incorrect and misleading. He was diagnosed with head integument bruise (bruising, cut of skin) outside of cranium. I deeply regret to respond to this story which feed the flame and get comments using such imaginary, catchy words.

the kid was knocked out lying on the floor... that's an concussion right there.

He is very brave.

Not sure about that sentiment. It did seem he'd "turned on the tap" a little