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Cleveland Indians changing team name to Guardians

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What's wrong with the word Indians?

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Smart and brave.

Ironically the ones against it are the people who have disparaged the Native Indians and everything that their culture stands for.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Smart and brave.

Ironically the ones against it are the people who have disparaged the Native Indians and everything that their culture stands for.

100 agree..

But they are a bunch of losers who go crazy if somebody mess with their stupid second amendment or their stupid "white privileges", you can see them in hordes at trumpyclown rallies..

What's wrong with the word Indians?

There you go...

0 ( +8 / -8 )

What's wrong with the word Indians?

"Indians" are people living in India. Calling native americans "indians" is simply perpetuating an idiotic mistake Columbus made when he came over from Europe.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Good point, Jsapc. it's what's called an "exonym" - what foreigners call you but you don't call yourself. Funny enough, the word "America" comes from an obscure cartographer named Amerigo Vespucci - so there was a 50/50 chance that my country would have been called "the United States of Vespucci."

5 ( +6 / -1 )

it's what's called an "exonym" - what foreigners call you but you don't call yourself.

Interesting. That's like "Japan", a word that isn't Japanese, wasn't created by them, and isn't used by them in their language to refer to themselves. I didn't know there was a word for that.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If the Left works hard enough they can completely eliminate American Indians from everything. Good going wokesters. The vast majority of American Indians in survey after survey have no problem being called “Indian”. But there are a lot of privileged white people who feel it their duty to protect the un-offended.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

The vast majority of American Indians in survey after survey have no problem being called “Indian”.

Really? I personally am taking this unsupported claim with a tonne of salt. Sounds very "alternate fact" like.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Is it not the indigenous Americans who want the name changes.

The National Congress of American Indians (NCAI), the country’s oldest and largest American Indian and Alaska Native tribal government organization, applauded Cleveland baseball's name change in a statement on Friday.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

'Not a moment too soon': Native American community welcomes Cleveland baseball team name change

“We are excited. This has been a long half century of adjuration towards this name change. It is coming not a moment too soon," Sundance, director of the Cleveland branch of the American Indian Movement, told ABC News in a phone interview on Friday, but urged the franchise to continue to engage in dialogue with the Native American community.

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/moment-native-american-community-welcomes-cleveland-baseball-team/story?id=79016197

These native Americans don't like it, but personally, I think they need to be ignored, for as wolfpack has rightly claimed, this is the fault of the woke left, and "Indians have no problem" with it. So the opinion of the above group means nothing because they're just "Indians" or something.

Turns out they're also "woke left" though:

the Native American community, including advocates in Ohio who have been urging the franchise to drop the Native American moniker for decades

Damm "woke left" "Indians".

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The only person upset enough to release a childish statement was donald.

Everyone else is perfectly fine with the change, except a few of donald’s boys!!!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Paul Dolan owns the team, he can call it what he wants. I have no problem with that. Ditto if he wanted to keep the name as is.

Remains to be seen how the fans react though. What will happen if they have the temerity to wear old Indians gear to games- will they be refused entry?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wonder if the pressure will be on my hometown Chiefs to change their name as well......

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The vast majority of American Indians in survey after survey have no problem being called “Indian”.

Nope. If you're talking about that 2016 Washington Post poll, that has now been discredited for not publishing their study in a scientific journal

A newer study published on Social Psychological and Personality Science in 2020, conducted by the University of Michigan and UC Berkeley contradicts that data. It's a scientific survey of 1,021 Native Americans. Here, ya can read the paper yourself:

https://psyarxiv.com/d5gte/

Abstract: While major organizations representing Native Americans (e.g., National Congress of American Indians, n.d.) contend that Native mascots are stereotypical and dehumanizing, sports teams with Native mascots cite polls claiming their mascots are not offensive to Native people (Vargas, 2019). We conducted a large-scale, empirical study to provide a valid and generalizable understanding of Native Americans’ (N=1021) attitudes toward Native mascots. Building on the identity centrality literature, we examined how multiple aspects of Native identification uniquely shaped attitudes towards mascots. While Native Americans in our sample generally opposed Native mascots, especially the Redskins, attitudes varied according to demographic characteristics (e.g., age, political orientation, education) and the strength of participants’ racial-ethnic identification. Specifically, stronger Native identification (behavioral engagement and identity centrality) predicted greater opposition. Results highlight the importance of considering the unique and multifaceted aspects of identity, particularly when seeking to understand Native people’s attitudes and experiences.

Descriptive Results: On average, Native American participants significantly opposed the Redskins team name (M = 4.69; SD = 1.59; one-sample t-test compared to the scale mid-point, t(1018)=13.94, p

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Now, for an even more recent non-scientific polls of sorts:

https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2021/more-than-mascots-its-time-to-end-cultural-appropriation-of-native-americans-in-sports/

One part of the Nielsen survey showed that younger people increasingly don't believe that Native mascots are meant to honor.

According to Nielsen, 30 percent of people ages 16-20 see Native mascots as honoring, and 44 percent of people ages 21-34. That's a far smaller number than people aged 35-54 (62 percent) and 55-69 (49 percent).

"Cherokee Phoenix poll suggests some nicknames more offensive than others"

https://www.cherokeephoenix.org/news/cherokee-phoenix-poll-suggests-some-nicknames-more-offensive-than-others/article_4a8d1498-3d4f-5e1f-add1-78105db5875f.html

The Cherokee Phoenix recently conducted a non-scientific poll, to which 348 readers responded, concerning the use of Native nicknames by sports teams and schools. The poll suggested general distaste for the most visible and racy nicknames, but some input suggested that some readers applied nuance.

Readers were asked whether they found all Native sports nicknames and mascots offensive, to which a plurality of 39.48 percent said they were. Another 26.51 percent said they found some offensive, but not all, and 34.01 percent were not offended by Native nicknames or mascots.

Other questions asked about which names were derogatory. Of the respondents, 64.16% were offended by "Redskins;" 51.73% found "Indians" offensive. "Savages" garnered the most opposition, with 76.44% deeming the name offensive.

Found less insulting were "Chiefs" or "Chieftains," with 48.41% disapproving; and "Braves" was offensive to 43.93 percent of respondents. Warriors was deemed derogatory by 33.91%.

Readers were also asked whether governments or sporting organizations should be able to pressure or force offending teams or schools to change their mascots or nicknames: 56.32% said yes, and 43.68 percent said no. Asked whether tribes should have such power, 66.18 percent said yes and 33.82 percent said no.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

‘Cleveland Indi-s’?

ie. ‘Indigenous’?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Good point, Jsapc. it's what's called an "exonym" - what foreigners call you but you don't call yourself. 

Which “foreigners” are you referring to?

These native Americans don't like it, but personally, I think they need to be ignored, for as wolfpack has rightly claimed, this is the fault of the woke left, and "Indians have no problem" with it. 

I love the sarcasm but you miss the mark. The community is not the province of a group of individuals who volunteer to represent them. For example, the National Organization for Women does not represent all women. They represent the Leftist politics of a portion of women in America. In multiple surveys some conducted by Leftist news organizations such as the Washington Post in the range of 70 to 87% of American Indians aren’t even bothered by the former name of the Washington Redskins football team. There are American Indian public schools that still to this day use that name. It is counter-intuitive to the white people that believe it is their responsibility to protect them from harm. But they are insistent that it is for their own good.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

In multiple surveys some conducted by Leftist news organizations such as the Washington Post in the range of 70 to 87% of American Indians aren’t even bothered by the former name of the Washington Redskins football team.

That 2016 poll has already been discredited since the pollster didn't even bother to put their study on a scientific publication for scrutiny

And name the other "multiple" surveys

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The community is not the province of a group of individuals who volunteer to represent them. For example, the National Organization for Women does not represent all women.

I don't get your logic. Because only some American natives find it offensive, and not all of them, it's ok because only some of them are offended?

In multiple surveys some conducted by Leftist news organizations such as the Washington Post in the range of 70 to 87% of American Indians aren’t even bothered by the former name of the Washington Redskins football team.

Yeah, I am particularly skeptical of this claim. You make this unsupported claim, while someone else above posted peer-reviewed studies with proper statistics. I'm guessing your numbers are made up by people who want the right to offend others and not be called out for it.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I don't get your logic. Because only some American natives find it offensive, and not all of them, it's ok because only some of them are offended?

In short, yes. Should you not have to prove that most are offended or that it is objectively immoral in order to argue that a thing, whether it be an idea or a mascot, should be “cancelled”? If I made the argument that most white people were offended by critical race theory and related anti-white ideas would you agree it’s okay to cancel them? Or would you make a free speech argument in its defense? Should black people be alllowed to determine that “whiteness” is a social ill? There are objective

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The US government officially recognizes Indian Tribes in the US. What is wrong with the word Indians? It's not derogatory like Redskins.

Maybe the Giants need to change their name. I'm tall and I'm offended by that name.

Far-left cancel culture is a joke.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

They represent the Leftist politics of a portion of women in America.

You love your identity politics.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What is wrong with the word Indians? It's not derogatory like Redskins.

It’s like calling a Jewish Edson an Arab. It simply isn’t accurate, and to many, it’s highly derogatory.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

P. SmithToday  08:16 am JST

It’s like calling a Jewish Edson an Arab. It simply isn’t accurate, and to many, it’s highly derogatory.

A Jewish Edison?? A person? Is that an analogy?

The Cleveland Indians is a baseball team, not a person.

So is Pittsburgh Pirates acceptable?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

A Jewish Edison?? A person? Is that an analogy?

The Cleveland Indians is a baseball team, not a person.

You’re sharp.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Its about time they changed the name, I mean, they're not even Indians. Louis CK did a hilarious bit on this topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VyfP0AkQbw

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What's wrong with the word Indians?

Who'd want to be seen as a mascot by the people who were able to destroy their culture because the destroyers had guns germs and steel. As has been pointed out 'Indian' a word used by people from a South Asian nation. An anecdote, I grew up around people from different tribes, who if they'd ever refer to their ethnicity would name the tribe they're from. For example, Navajo or Hopi. or Oglala Sioux.

To me it's like posters who must try to antagonize Japanese readers by choosing user names like Commodore Perry and Enola Gay.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

PTownsendToday  03:02 pm JST

Who'd want to be seen as a mascot by the people who were able to destroy their culture because the destroyers had guns germs and steel. As has been pointed out 'Indian' a word used by people from a South Asian nation. An anecdote, I grew up around people from different tribes, who if they'd ever refer to their ethnicity would name the tribe they're from. For example, Navajo or Hopi. or Oglala Sioux. 

As pointed out, the US uses the word Indian in official contemporary documents.

So the Exeter Chiefs need to change their name too, right?

And all the cities un the US named after Indians, like Sioux City to start?

What about the thought that using the name Indians is a sign of respect and promotes an interest in that culture?

In Hawaii, there are many streets named after Native Hawaiians. Is that disrespectful?

And would it be wrong for Native Americans to use the names of any non-native Americans to name streets, teams or whatever?

PTownsendToday  03:02 pm JST

To me it's like posters who must try to antagonize Japanese readers by choosing user names like Commodore Perry and Enola Gay.

It's kind of like Perry is an impotent historical figure when it comes to Japan. Enola Gay--that is a sign of respect for the US. No problem there.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

As pointed out, the US uses the word Indian in official contemporary documents.

Well, this settles it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

P. SmithToday  03:37 pm JST

> Well, this settles it.

Yep.

Pretty basic.

Nothing wrong with the word.

And as In recall you mention you are form Ohio---you must be looking for ways to change the name of that state too. Only if you are consistent with your CRT driven cancel culture theories.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

P. SmithToday  04:10 pm JST

.

You clearly don’t understand what is going on. Mislabeling a group of people as another group of people is offensive. Just look how apoplectic you get when people refer to Palestinians.

Naming a state after a Native American name for a river is honoring the native Americans.

I don't understand what is going on? Why, because you say so?

So using an Indian word to name a state is fine, but naming a team after the Indians as a whole--problem!

I was born in the US--I am a Native American.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

P. SmithToday  04:18 pm JST

Look at the mascot. Is that an Indian or a Native American?

It is Indian.

There is no such thing as a Native American unless an Indian tribe recognizes one as so. It is possible to be Indian as a result of one's ancestry and not belong to a Native American tribe.

How come Biden hasn't done anything about the Bureau of Indian Affairs?

https://www.bia.gov

Is that entire government sector degrading to some people?

.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

As pointed out, the US uses the word Indian in official contemporary documents.

But they do NOT use Indian as a mascot. Having 'Indian' serve as mascot, is different, except perhaps to those who want to keep pouring salt on old wounds.

And especially those who call people 'woke when the 'wokes' express some form of care regarding those from cultures that have been damaged by another culture or invading empire.

'woke' is a word from the alt right social media lexicon, a word used by extreme rightists and their white nationalist ilk to disparage those with different values.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

PTownsendToday  04:37 pm JST

But they do NOT use Indian as a mascot. Having 'Indian' serve as mascot, is different, except perhaps to those who want to keep pouring salt on old wounds.

I am not talking about the mascot. I am talking about the name of the team. The Indians. I do not see a problem with the name--it is not derogatory like Redskins is. The mascot is different--sure, it should go.

So the Exeter Chiefs need to change their name too?

I am a bigger supporter of all indigenous, native Hawaiian, or Native Americans, or Indians than I am of the BLM, CRT reparations for ancestors of slaves and I see naming a major league baseball team Indians is a promotion for those people.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There are hundreds of native American cultures still in existence, including including Navajo, Central Alaskan Yup'ik, Tlingit, Haida, Dakota, Seneca, Lakota, Apache, Keres, Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, Kiowa, Comanche, Osage, Zuni, Pawnee, Shawnee, Winnebago, Ojibwe, Cree, and O'odham. Many of them lend their names to the land they historically occupied, but they have about as much in common as a New Yorker does a Angeleno.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There are Indian nations trying to survive without running water and power. The rich sports clubs should be helping them out.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

zichiToday  08:47 pm JST

There are Indian nations trying to survive without running water and power. The rich sports clubs should be helping them out.

Should the Exeter Chiefs help out?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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