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© Copyright 2021 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Cleveland Indians changing team name to Guardians
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Commodore Perry
zichiToday 08:47 pm JST
Should the Exeter Chiefs help out?
Laguna
There are hundreds of native American cultures still in existence, including including Navajo, Central Alaskan Yup'ik, Tlingit, Haida, Dakota, Seneca, Lakota, Apache, Keres, Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, Kiowa, Comanche, Osage, Zuni, Pawnee, Shawnee, Winnebago, Ojibwe, Cree, and O'odham. Many of them lend their names to the land they historically occupied, but they have about as much in common as a New Yorker does a Angeleno.
Commodore Perry
PTownsendToday 04:37 pm JST
I am not talking about the mascot. I am talking about the name of the team. The Indians. I do not see a problem with the name--it is not derogatory like Redskins is. The mascot is different--sure, it should go.
So the Exeter Chiefs need to change their name too?
I am a bigger supporter of all indigenous, native Hawaiian, or Native Americans, or Indians than I am of the BLM, CRT reparations for ancestors of slaves and I see naming a major league baseball team Indians is a promotion for those people.
PTownsend
But they do NOT use Indian as a mascot. Having 'Indian' serve as mascot, is different, except perhaps to those who want to keep pouring salt on old wounds.
And especially those who call people 'woke when the 'wokes' express some form of care regarding those from cultures that have been damaged by another culture or invading empire.
'woke' is a word from the alt right social media lexicon, a word used by extreme rightists and their white nationalist ilk to disparage those with different values.
Commodore Perry
P. SmithToday 04:18 pm JST
It is Indian.
There is no such thing as a Native American unless an Indian tribe recognizes one as so. It is possible to be Indian as a result of one's ancestry and not belong to a Native American tribe.
How come Biden hasn't done anything about the Bureau of Indian Affairs?
https://www.bia.gov
Is that entire government sector degrading to some people?
.
Commodore Perry
P. SmithToday 04:10 pm JST
I don't understand what is going on? Why, because you say so?
So using an Indian word to name a state is fine, but naming a team after the Indians as a whole--problem!
I was born in the US--I am a Native American.
Commodore Perry
P. SmithToday 03:37 pm JST
Yep.
Pretty basic.
Nothing wrong with the word.
And as In recall you mention you are form Ohio---you must be looking for ways to change the name of that state too. Only if you are consistent with your CRT driven cancel culture theories.
Commodore Perry
PTownsendToday 03:02 pm JST
As pointed out, the US uses the word Indian in official contemporary documents.
So the Exeter Chiefs need to change their name too, right?
And all the cities un the US named after Indians, like Sioux City to start?
What about the thought that using the name Indians is a sign of respect and promotes an interest in that culture?
In Hawaii, there are many streets named after Native Hawaiians. Is that disrespectful?
And would it be wrong for Native Americans to use the names of any non-native Americans to name streets, teams or whatever?
PTownsendToday 03:02 pm JST
It's kind of like Perry is an impotent historical figure when it comes to Japan. Enola Gay--that is a sign of respect for the US. No problem there.
PTownsend
Who'd want to be seen as a mascot by the people who were able to destroy their culture because the destroyers had guns germs and steel. As has been pointed out 'Indian' a word used by people from a South Asian nation. An anecdote, I grew up around people from different tribes, who if they'd ever refer to their ethnicity would name the tribe they're from. For example, Navajo or Hopi. or Oglala Sioux.
To me it's like posters who must try to antagonize Japanese readers by choosing user names like Commodore Perry and Enola Gay.
Kumagaijin
Its about time they changed the name, I mean, they're not even Indians. Louis CK did a hilarious bit on this topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VyfP0AkQbw
Commodore Perry
P. SmithToday 08:16 am JST
A Jewish Edison?? A person? Is that an analogy?
The Cleveland Indians is a baseball team, not a person.
So is Pittsburgh Pirates acceptable?
Commodore Perry
The US government officially recognizes Indian Tribes in the US. What is wrong with the word Indians? It's not derogatory like Redskins.
Maybe the Giants need to change their name. I'm tall and I'm offended by that name.
Far-left cancel culture is a joke.
Wolfpack
In short, yes. Should you not have to prove that most are offended or that it is objectively immoral in order to argue that a thing, whether it be an idea or a mascot, should be “cancelled”? If I made the argument that most white people were offended by critical race theory and related anti-white ideas would you agree it’s okay to cancel them? Or would you make a free speech argument in its defense? Should black people be alllowed to determine that “whiteness” is a social ill? There are objective
Strangerland
I don't get your logic. Because only some American natives find it offensive, and not all of them, it's ok because only some of them are offended?
Yeah, I am particularly skeptical of this claim. You make this unsupported claim, while someone else above posted peer-reviewed studies with proper statistics. I'm guessing your numbers are made up by people who want the right to offend others and not be called out for it.
lostrune2
That 2016 poll has already been discredited since the pollster didn't even bother to put their study on a scientific publication for scrutiny
And name the other "multiple" surveys
Wolfpack
Which “foreigners” are you referring to?
I love the sarcasm but you miss the mark. The community is not the province of a group of individuals who volunteer to represent them. For example, the National Organization for Women does not represent all women. They represent the Leftist politics of a portion of women in America. In multiple surveys some conducted by Leftist news organizations such as the Washington Post in the range of 70 to 87% of American Indians aren’t even bothered by the former name of the Washington Redskins football team. There are American Indian public schools that still to this day use that name. It is counter-intuitive to the white people that believe it is their responsibility to protect them from harm. But they are insistent that it is for their own good.
inkochi
‘Cleveland Indi-s’?
ie. ‘Indigenous’?
lostrune2
Now, for an even more recent non-scientific polls of sorts:
https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/article/2021/more-than-mascots-its-time-to-end-cultural-appropriation-of-native-americans-in-sports/
"Cherokee Phoenix poll suggests some nicknames more offensive than others"
https://www.cherokeephoenix.org/news/cherokee-phoenix-poll-suggests-some-nicknames-more-offensive-than-others/article_4a8d1498-3d4f-5e1f-add1-78105db5875f.html
lostrune2
Nope. If you're talking about that 2016 Washington Post poll, that has now been discredited for not publishing their study in a scientific journal
A newer study published on Social Psychological and Personality Science in 2020, conducted by the University of Michigan and UC Berkeley contradicts that data. It's a scientific survey of 1,021 Native Americans. Here, ya can read the paper yourself:
https://psyarxiv.com/d5gte/
GdTokyo
Wonder if the pressure will be on my hometown Chiefs to change their name as well......
Attilathehungry
Paul Dolan owns the team, he can call it what he wants. I have no problem with that. Ditto if he wanted to keep the name as is.
Remains to be seen how the fans react though. What will happen if they have the temerity to wear old Indians gear to games- will they be refused entry?
ulysses
The only person upset enough to release a childish statement was donald.
Everyone else is perfectly fine with the change, except a few of donald’s boys!!!
Strangerland
'Not a moment too soon': Native American community welcomes Cleveland baseball team name change
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/moment-native-american-community-welcomes-cleveland-baseball-team/story?id=79016197
These native Americans don't like it, but personally, I think they need to be ignored, for as wolfpack has rightly claimed, this is the fault of the woke left, and "Indians have no problem" with it. So the opinion of the above group means nothing because they're just "Indians" or something.
Turns out they're also "woke left" though:
Damm "woke left" "Indians".
Strangerland
Really? I personally am taking this unsupported claim with a tonne of salt. Sounds very "alternate fact" like.
Wolfpack
If the Left works hard enough they can completely eliminate American Indians from everything. Good going wokesters. The vast majority of American Indians in survey after survey have no problem being called “Indian”. But there are a lot of privileged white people who feel it their duty to protect the un-offended.
Strangerland
Interesting. That's like "Japan", a word that isn't Japanese, wasn't created by them, and isn't used by them in their language to refer to themselves. I didn't know there was a word for that.
Laguna
Good point, Jsapc. it's what's called an "exonym" - what foreigners call you but you don't call yourself. Funny enough, the word "America" comes from an obscure cartographer named Amerigo Vespucci - so there was a 50/50 chance that my country would have been called "the United States of Vespucci."
Jsapc
"Indians" are people living in India. Calling native americans "indians" is simply perpetuating an idiotic mistake Columbus made when he came over from Europe.
ulysses
Smart and brave.
Ironically the ones against it are the people who have disparaged the Native Indians and everything that their culture stands for.